IT Employment

Advice to twentysomethings: Hiring managers don't want your text messages

The generation gap is perhaps no larger than when it comes to job hunting. Recent college grads are finding out that the communication strategies they've grown up with don't work in the real world.

The generation gap is perhaps no larger than when it comes to job hunting. Recent college grads are finding out that the communication strategies they've grown up with don't work in the real world.

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In this blog, I've often stressed the power of communication. Maybe more important that what you have to say is that you have an awareness of the person with whom you're trying to communicate. In other words, what you're trying to say may be perfectly fine, but if you don't consider how it's going to be received by the person you're talking to due to his particular background, expectations, or culture, then you run a big risk of being shut out.

Such communication misfires can result in hurt feelings and hostility, but they can also manifest themselves in lost opportunities.

That seems to be the case lately between 20-somethings seeking work and hiring managers across the nation. Hiring managers are reporting an increase in casual communications like text messaging, e-mails using text lingo, messages sent via mobile devices, and even Friend invitations from MySpace or Facebook.

While text-messaging lingo might be completely natural to these young people -- indeed, for some it's the only way they communicate -- they fail to notice that those in positions of authority (who tend to be older) find such methods of communication disrespectful.

Some hiring managers have received thank you notes from job candidates via mobile devices. These messages are filled with text lingo and smiley face emoticons. To "Generation Text" this is an after-interview courtesy, but the form it takes comes across to an older hiring manager as insincere, rushed, and a little shallow. They may not want that type of person interacting with the clients at their company.

Some managers have gotten text messages sent to their private cells just because the number happened to appear on their business cards. This borders on infringement of privacy.

One hiring manager reported that one job candidate sent her a Friend invite from her personal Facebook page. "Friend" is not a level of intimacy you can assume with someone you met only long enough to interview with.

I'm aware that these perceptions will someday dissipate. After all, nobody these days frowns upon you if you don't write in longhand using calligraphy-proper penmanship. But job hunting will always require you to put yourself in the light a hiring manager expects to see you in.

About

Toni Bowers is Managing Editor of TechRepublic and is the award-winning blogger of the Career Management blog. She has edited newsletters, books, and web sites pertaining to software, IT career, and IT management issues.

156 comments
travellingpolander
travellingpolander

...and sites like Facebook, etc. is something that (probably) is always open on his PC. I had a longstanding issue regarding social networks. Not that I don't want or them, but if you're in the office-spend all your time at work in the office. After all-you're payed to work, not to engage in Facebook or to "sent" me a Facebook invitation... In short, I ignored his invitation. Feeling close, huh...

green089
green089

I think the author needs to end sentences with words other than prepositions. I think texting is perfectly fine if you have a report with someone. My father is an example of a higher-up who frequently texts with the newer generation. It makes him feel younger and he likes gadgets. It's a new way of expressing one's self. Ohh God, I'm probably sounding like I'm a texting hippy, but I'm really not. I don't text or send friend invites, but if I did, I would hope that my boss or whoever is assigned to keep me productive uses that type of media to get me going and keep me on track. Too much time has been spend in this article about how people misuse these devices. It would be impressive if the author found success stories of managers who were able to cope with the tide of texters floating into their workplace, and found ways to actually improve communication. Nobody cares about the twit who texts while they are walking, driving, riding a bike, and whatever else (as long as they don't hurt someone, then they are in big trouble), but most of the time everyone with something productive to do surpasses the textophile.

GoodOh
GoodOh

"Some managers have gotten text messages sent to their private cells just because the number happened to appear on their business cards. This borders on infringement of privacy." In what twisted world view is something you put on your business card expected to be treated as private?

luke_bernard
luke_bernard

Hello from Gen Y. I just wanted to say thanks for the negative spin you are putting on my generation. I think for the most part everything that has been posted so far is true. Gen Y is proof that evolution can go backwards - we are arrogant, impolite and unprofessional at best. Nevertheless, this opens up a niche market whereby youngster from Gen Y can model themselves on their older, often wiser managers in order to stand out from the crowd. My former boss taught me this and many other valuable skills - I couldn't be more grateful. So please keep bagging my generation - you're making me look good! Kind Regards Luke

jose.schmoe
jose.schmoe

This is similar to another thread put forward by Jason Hiner (will gen y empower IT?). I think in that one, we baby boomers conquered and vanquished these young whipper snappers who think they're ready to take on corp IT management and CHANGE THE WORLD! We crushed them and they went down without a whimper. Well evidently not. So here we go again. Lissen up kiddies. Just because you know how to send virtual hugs on facebook, post your ugly mug on myspace and can twitter all day long makes you in no way mannger shape or form qualified to be an IT professional. Quite the opposite. This topic about SMing (Short Msg, the actual technical term. Comes from SMS), illustrates how these acne prone, let's party I think I'm still in college, iphone totin', MTV wachers are not fit to touch a computer. Other than to play Doom or watch YouTube. Get back to basics. Go learn COBOL or something. This is our turf. Twentysomethings need not apply other than to get us our coffee!

khilde
khilde

All of the over-age-30 employees completely spazzing out about Gen Y just need to take a deep breath. I think this information is good for managers as a way to simply understand that these types of things could happen. Do they need to tolerate it? Hell no. Especially if it's not their policy as a manger. But the disconnect happens when over-30 managers assume that Gen Y employees can read their mind. And then over-30s get all crabby that Gen Y is this casual, unprofessional, lazy crowd. Well...they will be until you tell them otherwise. Unfortunately, not all members of this age group were lucky enough to have people in their lives that taught some of the basics of communication, manners, etc. So whether we like it or not, as managers, we become that one that has to help coach and educate some of those who "don't get it" or "never got it." That's part of being a manager, in my mind (and I do believe in the minds of many, many Gen Ys). So either we gripe about them or help them. Part of helping them is to define your own standards and then enforce 'em, bosses. And if you are rubbed the wrong way when an applicant texts a thank you...then don't hire them. End of story. But either way, these young people will eventually be absorbed into the workforce. I also think that more Gen Ys will change and mature as they begin to understand the realities of the workplace. I really don't think the landscape of work as we know it is going to change drastically just because this group is entering the workforce. I think some changes will occur (just as ALL previous generations have changed some aspects of work), but I don't think over-30 employees will have to bend to the whims of Gen Ys. It's just not gonna happen. The traditions of work as an institution are much stronger than this force of "up-and-comers." Gen Ys will get to work and realize that it's not all gumdrops and rainbows like they've been told since HS & College. It's tiring reading articles that are constantly bagging on Gen Y like it's 100% their problem. I agree, there are some idiots and this generation certainly has its weaknesses--but over-30 managers are NOT HELPLESS to stop it. Gen Y needs more guidance than previous generations. We can't take for granted that they know certain things about the etiquette of work. The sooner we all get that, the easier I think it will be integrate them into the workplace. PS - And if you don't want people to call you at home, then don't put your PRIVATE cell phone number on your business card. Gen Yers have grown up understanding that anything you put in the public domain is public. Full disclosure: I'm 28 years old.

Big Owl
Big Owl

My company has been trying to hire for a position and has been inundated with resumes. The only folks still in the game after an interview have been those who snail-mail or drop off a HANDWRITTEN thank-you note with all the words spelled correctly. We're still looking.

dregeh
dregeh

Of course I understand when discourtesy is simply discourteous - but it's wrong to mistake technological progress with discourteous. We might as well be having this argument about the differences between an "appropriate" phone call and "impersonal" email, right? Look, we're all in IT and the one thing that remains constant for us is CHANGE. If we do not keep up with technology as it advances, we become dinosaurs. But the good news is dinosaurs CAN learn new things and become relevant once again. Even better news: learning the texting lingo and "l33t speak" that others have mentioned is nothing compared to learning a new programming language or hardware system. Wouldn't you agree? -the texting dinosaur

sduran
sduran

Name and other identifying information are the only things . It was in all lower case with no punctuation except for the "." before "com". This is truly sad. hello i am im 18 years old and i just graduated this past year from my votec class if u would like to contact me u can @ or email me at

andrea
andrea

I went for a job interview with a small government agency, and after refusing the job (various factors), the interviewer kept texting me to reconsider... until I called him myself and politely told him to p*** off and that the text messages only made it worse. Strange.. I'm the twenty-something who grew up on these things, he's in his 40's.

brent.harmon
brent.harmon

This is one of the most entertaining posts and discussions I've read in a long time. What I find most interesting about this is, as a hiring manager, I appreciate any feedback from an interviewee. I did not see it mentioned how many members of this latest generation are just downright ungrateful, period. I regularly hire college-age students and rarely get any post-interview feedback. But, it seems that anyone that has called or texted and thanked me for the opportunity to interview has been extended an offer. While I agree that the informality of the communication might be perceived as insultingly casual to us "old farts", I would take a texting 20-something with a solid work ethic any day of the week.

eM DuBYaH
eM DuBYaH

Now now! Don't all of you think you just MIGHT be a little too harsh on our little 20 something crowd? They've been trained at home and in academia that they are supposed to be constantly praised, and to feel oh soo good about themselves and what they do. If texting like a nincompoop makes them feel good, then by golly we need to buck it up as the older generation and let them have at it! And since it looks like here in America, we will soon need to be learning Spanish, since to expect English to be the primary language is just too gosh darned insensitive, we need to learn decipher L33t speak to accommodate the 20 somethings to make sure they continue to keep their warm fuzzies flowing!!!

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

You raise some valid points. I've been waiting for some feedback from managers who have successfully integrated the so-called 'Web 2.0' social apps into the workplace. So far I haven't seen much that encourages me to pay more attention to these tools.

seanferd
seanferd

Well, while you seem to be a good job at standing out as a young professional, I don't think you need us to put down your generation for you to do so. Seem to be getting on fine on your own. :) Of course, we wouldn't be entirely bagging an entire generation, either. Just some odd habits that seem to crop up. Actually, I'm curious to know what the text-messaging culture is like outside of the U.S. Is it all quite similar, or do the uses and "shorthand" vary significantly? Cheers!

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

Both literate [u]and[/u] a sense of humor? You don't need us to make you look good, you're doing it all on your own. Keep up the good work.

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

I didn't understand your 'domination' approach in Jason's dicussion and I still don't. Maybe if I take a different approach I'll see where you're coming from. EXACTLY how much younger than you does someone have to be before you regard them as needing "crushed"? Ten years? Twenty? What does their having acne or watching MTV have to do with their technical competence? Instead of name calling, could you cite some specific examples of technical failings in those younger co-workers you've worked with? Do you think you're benefiting your employer by basing your treatment of co-workers on an age-based personal prejudice? If all you expect of someone is to fetch coffee, how are they going to develop the skill you say they lack? Who is going to have the skills your company needs to replace you when you retire?

jose.schmoe
jose.schmoe

one thing I have to say. it's refreshing to see a GenYer not just blindly defending his generation. that he wrote this post fully admitting he is in his 20s is admirable. Full disclosure here: I am very baby boomer. I really don't have anything against GenYers outside the IT data centers. Except for their loud bars in which you can't even hear yourself talk and the brain numbing thump thump thump at niteclubs. Except for all of that I don't have anything against them. My wife is a Gen Yer. Really.

jose.schmoe
jose.schmoe

First, though this was written by a Gen Yer, he did bring up some good points. Discipline is one of the first things that needs to be instilled upon entering the workforce. Blogging and socializing on Facebook is just not good business practice. I've heard many stories from my IT counterparts (telecom guy here) who was asked why access to X site or Y site is blocked. Humble pie and lots of it would be another good thing for these kids. Don't walk into IT and try to eradicate Windows with Linux because that penguin is sooo cool! I don't care what you did when you were in college. You're not in college now and this is the REAL WORLD. Business etiquette, the heart of this thread; I agree they need lots of hand holding. Lots. In terms of business protocols I see in their nappies and needing bibs. Another point I wholeheartedly agree with is the part of the mgr doesn't like it if he was sent an SM after an interview then don't hire the person. To rip off a term from the crusades "Fire them. Fire them all and let the marketplace sort them out!" Kids, learn the basics. Get to know a calculator. Write full sentences. And the most important thing is just learn from your IT elders. Keep an open mind. And speak only when spoken to.

jmgarvin
jmgarvin

1) "But the disconnect happens when over-30 managers assume that Gen Y employees can read their mind." It's only professional to, I donno, use the full words with proper grammar and punctuation... 2) "So whether we like it or not, as managers, we become that one that has to help coach and educate some of those who "don't get it" or "never got it." That's part of being a manager, in my mind (and I do believe in the minds of many, many Gen Ys)." I don't have the time to teach kids how to communicate effectively. If they don't know it by now, they're going to learn the hard way by NOT getting the job (or any job for that matter). I'm not going to play games with this crap. It is THEIR responsibility to understand what is professional and what is not. It is not MY responsibility to teach them how to communicate and not look like tools. 3) "It's tiring reading articles that are constantly bagging on Gen Y like it's 100% their problem." It is 100% their problem. Look, they need to get with the program. I'm tired of dealing with lazy workers who think that the deserve a job, just because. Jack asses. 5) "And if you don't want people to call you at home, then don't put your PRIVATE cell phone number on your business card. " This I agree with. I would never ever ever ever put my personal cell number on my card...I'd never stop getting calls.

eM DuBYaH
eM DuBYaH

Was there a time when an emailed thank you was considered ridiculous or rude as compared to a snail-mail?

jmgarvin
jmgarvin

thats 2 amzng to bleve do ppl rly rite that way 4 real u cnt be srs

NotSoChiGuy
NotSoChiGuy

Three cheers for standardized, scribble-in-the-Scantron tests over written essay responses!! hiP HIp who raE HIp hiP Wh0 Reh h1P H!P h0o Rai Worse, most office productivity tools come with all of this stuff (cover letters, resume templates, etc) ready to go; type in name and address properly, and you're halfway completed in less than 5 minutes.

jose.schmoe
jose.schmoe

He was simply thinking that by texting you he was "cool" and "with it" and "in tune" with those of your ilk. It's sad to see someone pretending to be younger than he actually is. Act your age is what I believe. There is no reason why he should conform to Gen Y's infatuation with gadgets and the latest cooool technology. GenY should conform to US, the keepers of the keys to the kingdom. At the DNC, even Cnet news was reporting that Barak was going to SMS the name of his VP, it wasn't because he was validating GenY's shenanigans. It was because he wants the vote and this is the way to get it. It's nothing against Barak. ANY politician will say or do just about anything to get your vote. So kiddies, TXTing is not the way to go.

bfpower
bfpower

Brent, I appreciate your post. As a twentysomething IT professional who had the good fortune to be trained in "proper" etiquette, I think I can understand both sides of this issue. And like you, I think the cultural context of a person's actions are less important than the character of the person. I do agree that most of my colleagues are generally ignorant of social propriety (or good character). It was taught to me, but many of my associates simply didn't learn it (or weren't taught it). I don't assign much blame to the previous generation, as I feel that we are responsible for our own choices. And eventually, Gen Y will have the privilege of seeing the shortcomings of Gen Z, or whatever they call the next group. And we will wonder what ever happened to the professional courtesy that was so common when we were young. I still think my generation is full of senseless ingrates. But don't tell them. The competitive advantage is nice. You sound like someone who would be good to work with... are you hiring? LOL

ken4zen
ken4zen

Now now! Don't all of you think you just MIGHT be a little too harsh on our little American crowd? They've been trained at home and in academia that they are supposed to be constantly listened to. If speaking only one language like a nincompoop makes them feel good, then by golly we need to buck up as the larger global polyglot citizen's of the world and let them have at it.

luke_bernard
luke_bernard

Firstly, thanks for the encouragement - much appreciated. Secondly, shorthand text-messaging in Australia sounds very similar to the U.S - if we can find a way to shorten it, we will! Also, there seems to be a new trend amongst people my age and younger to come up with the most innovative way to shorten a text message. For example, 'sok' = it is ok. That said, it is still the appropriate use of texting that is the real concern. Cheers (Ctch U L8R) Luke

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

Most so-called "leet" I've seen is based on the substitution of numbers or individual letters that coincidentally sound like syllables or complete words. Since these sounds are unique to English, the shorthand in other languages has to be different. Obviously abbreviations have to differ since the phrases they represent won't be the same. I suspect the concept is still the same, since typing complete sentences on some keypads is difficult.

jose.schmoe
jose.schmoe

Lissen up young 'un, what rubs people the wrong way is the arrogance that these snot nosed kids think they know everything and because they consider themselves technically savvy (oh, did I mention they know how to stuff their music players with all sorts of illegal music? Woooow.) they think they can just walk in and turn the joint around. Let me tell you something. When we our generation (baby boomers) entered the force we kept our mouths shut except to ask questions and listened to our then elders with respect and tried to learn from them rather than try to teach them something. The only time we "spoke" was to ask legitimate questions like "pls show me how to do X" I didn't touch my first computer PERIOD until my freshman year in college. It was to learn the Fortan language (kiddies, never heard of it? why don't you ask one of your facebook buddies to tell you what it is). I got lucky that my freshman year they had JUST replaced the card readers with terminals at a whopping 300BUAD. This is NOT a joke. So I wasn't about to go into the workforce with the know it all attitude of a twenty something year old exemplified today. Kiddies you got a lot to learn. Humility is the first one.

khilde
khilde

Jose -- are you responding to the poster khilde? I just want to make sure because that's me and I'm a woman. But I know you have no way to tell that by my user name -- just wanted to make sure before I replied (PS - I'm not trying to be snide in this post -- I'm honestly being respectful...it's so hard to tell in these posts, I think). I don't defend my generation wholesale and I thank you for noticing that. I was born in 1980 so I'm more of a Cusper. I really identify with some Gen X traits (although as a self-described "very" Boomer you might not like that, either! ha ha). But I do identify with some Gen Y tendencies, too. I have a lot of thoughts on this topic because I've been doing some heavy reading/research about that this summer. I'm an employee trainer for my organization and I've worked really hard to put together a thoughtful class...not just a regurgitation of the pop commentary so prevalent out there. I don't necessarily condone some of the traits and behavior of Gen Y, but I do understand the reality of the world they grew up in. We don't have to agree with it -- we just have to understand it. Besides, every generation is a product of the one who raised it....don't you agree???

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

Poor communication skills are 100% an individual's problem. It is not a problem with 100% of Gen Y. I've met plenty of Boomers and X'ers that couldn't compose a limerick about Nantucket, much less a resume worth a second glance.

dregeh
dregeh

...but just look at Palmetto's reply to you.

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

At least in the case of an interview. Perhaps it depends on how the interview was offered. If you applied entirely on line and an interview was offered by e-mail or other electronic means, I'd say an e-mail 'Thank you' could be appropriate. If you received an interview offer by telephone or other 'traditional' medium, snail mail is probably the best way to reply.

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

[i]GenY should conform to US, the keepers of the keys to the kingdom.[/i] GenY should conform to the KKK? Really now, pay attention.

jdclyde
jdclyde

Speaking a single language does no more make someone a nincompoop than speaking multiple languages makes you a non-nincompoop. People learn language out of necessity. As much of the world had countries the size of our states, there are more isolated cultures in closer proximity. That also explains why many Americans have no desire or need to ever leave the US on vacation to "get away". We have enough here that you can get away without having to leave the country. I know, it doesn't fit in your liberal elitism view of looking down your nose at others, but it is true.

eM DuBYaH
eM DuBYaH

It's simple. You don't like the official language of the greatest country in the world - go somewhere else where you think it's better. America IS the greatest country on the planet. Developing nations require that *ENGLISH* is learned by students. Why horrible English? Because if a country wants to make $$$, they need to know English.

GoodOh
GoodOh

"s Gen Y any less arrogant than boomers were in the late 60s and early 70s? No." Totally agree. Most of the stuff burbled about Gen Y is maturational not generational.

jose.schmoe
jose.schmoe

Huh?! Are we supposed to potty train them too?

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

is that you are as ageist about twenty-somethings as any twenty-something ever was about the older generation. I don't see a difference between the attitudes. Technology advances. My grandfather still had the last buggy whip he bought before he bought his first car. Did he wish he could still use it? No. Do I wish I could still use punch cards? No. Is Gen Y any less arrogant than boomers were in the late 60s and early 70s? No. Are today's new young techs and programmers missing some of what we think are the basics? Yes. Is it their fault? No, the deficiency is not theirs, but [u]ours[/u] for failing to teach them these basics. Get over it.

jose.schmoe
jose.schmoe

What I was trying to say is that when I first encountered IT that's all there was. Fortran, Basic, Assembler, PL/I. C was already out. None of this fancy schmancy programming languages like Java, Ajax, Flash etc. Terminals, like I was pointing out, were 300 baud. I dodged the bullet not having to lug a stack full of cards around and then risk dropping them. None of this high falutin' P2P stuff at 6Mbps! No siree Bob. I guess wot I'm trying to say is we went through the school of hard knocks. So we're very pretty put off by these smart a**, I-know-it-all-old-man, I-can-SMS-you-can't brats who've had everything given to them (in terms of technology)in a golden platter. That's where the dose of humility comes in. And you stated you were born in '59. One thing we both have in common. We're traitors to our generation. You for defending the kiddos, me for marrying one. Did you get my point now?

jose.schmoe
jose.schmoe

ah, not a Yer? You must be an Xer then. we've long domesticated you and you now are "one of us". kinda.

jdclyde
jdclyde

Because you are coming across as an arrogant old dick. Not exactly the way to win people over, huh? And no, while not as ancient as yourself, I am not a "Y'er".

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

I am also a baby boomer, born in 1959. You complain about Gen Y's arrogance, then arrogantly assume everyone who stands up for them is one of them. I'm sorry you've encountered some snotty young people, but that doesn't mean everyone born after 1985 is worthy of contempt. These boomers you describe as entering the work force with their mouths shut are the same ones who marched in the streets in civil rights and anti-war rallies before passing out stoned in free-love communes. Or am I stereotyping our entire generation the same way you're doing to Gen Y? Why would anybody learn FORTRAN these days? Would you have disdain for a doctor if he didn't know how to apply leeches? Just because you learned one level of technology doesn't mean there's value in continuing to teach those same skill after they've become obsolete. Geez, would you have upcoming technicians learn to replace a vacuum tube? You talk of using ancient technology like it's something to be proud of. Would you have everyone continue to use those 300 baud modems? If you had access to something faster back then, would you have chosen not to use it? As to humility, it apparently isn't a lesson you bothered to learn, so I'm not sure why you expect others to. I'll be happy to contribute to your "Do as I say, not as I do" screensaver, unless that's too modern and you prefer old school flying toasters and dancing babies. I've given up on figuring you out. Now I'm running damage control so young people won't think all boomers have calcification of the attitudes.

santeewelding
santeewelding

Did I miss it? Was it somewhere in what you said?

jose.schmoe
jose.schmoe

GenY's are the ones trying to infiltrate the IT workplace. It's like an infestation that is trying to spread itself. So as such with the previous poster, they need to know HOW to communicate properly and we (the all ruling baby boomers) don't have the time - we have work to do - nor the responsibility to teach them something they should know before the enter the workplace. What's next? Potty train them too? Remember, THEY are the ones who are trying to get into the workplace. They're the ones under the microscope. WE are the gatekeepers. We can decide who to let in and who not to let in. We can do anything we want. We're the boss!

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

when copy editors at the NY Times or Time mag confuse it's/its.

mark
mark

Most of the friction and problems arising today are centered on the fact that for many kids growing up, the traditional barriers between adults and children that helped develop proper understanding of respect is gone. Parents are so busy working to buy "more stuff", they feel guilty about not spending time with their kids and so they just want to be their friends. When I was a kid we never referred to adults by first name, it was always Mr. X. Now I have an 8 year old neighbor who thinks he should call me by my first name. As for the TEXT issue, grammer and spelling has reached the status of unimportant to most people. You can even find spelling mistakes on this website in articles, not postings, not to mention big corporate websites that are littered with spelling mistakes.

jmgarvin
jmgarvin

However, since his focus was on Gen Y, so was mine. On that note: Should corporations have training courses for new hires that include proper corporate communication?

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

Disclaimer: I haven't been on either side of a job interview in 15 years. I wouldn't be offended by an e-mail follow-up to an interview as much as amused or exasperated. Almost any reply is better than none, but a written reply would impress me more than an electronic one, and a complete, coherent e-mail message would impress me more than a 'l33t speak' text message. On the other hand, I wouldn't give an electronic address to an interviewee. Next thing I know it'll be up on his social page. If the only connection we have is a single interview, you don't need my e-mail address, cell phone number, etc. Sure, learning l33t is easier than learning a programming language. Learning Pig Latin is easy too, but neither it nor l33t have any place in the job application process. Serious question: does l33t serve any practical purpose or does it just allow the user to feel 'cool'?

dregeh
dregeh

If so, it's interesting to see how vastly different the opinions of IT people can be. I guess that is what makes this post such an interesting one.

santeewelding
santeewelding

Elevation. Check. Windage. Check. Spotter: do you see what I see?

R153nm
R153nm

You think you can find somewhere else to troll? Thanks. I fail to see how being multilingual is a political issue.

herman404
herman404

I was born and grew up in the US - Georgia actually, and I have no desire to ever live in America again after moving to London. Why? Better infrastructure, better education, universal health care, older culture, high speed trains throughout the rest of Europe, better beer, no GM frankenfoods, etc. I have nothing against the US, I simply prefer Britain or other European countries to live in, but I find the American attitude of everybody envies us patronising and offensive. Want more proof of Americas "greatness"? Here are the lists of the World's top cities to live in, on American news media: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/18/arts/rmon1munich.php http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/eui.survey/ The only US city to make one of the lists is Honolulu which is culturally Polynesian, not American. By what criteria greatest nation is measured is up for debate, but given the fact that China and India will surpass the US during this century proves a basic point in world history; superpower nations always lose their hedgmonic status over time. Finally, I have checked statistics and people around the globe *are* busting down doors to make their way into Ireland: http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006_06_01/europe/dublin_ireland_beeing_called_brain_gain.htm and Britain too: http://www.workpermit.com/news/2008-04-29/uk/decade-immigration-benefits-united-kingdom.htm http://www.workpermit.com/news/2008-02-21/uk/united-kingdom-continues-attracting-highly-skilled-migrants.htm Most of the immigration in the US is due to sharing land borders with the developing Central and South American nations. So I guess you owe me your paycheque, but if you would kindly convert it into Pound Sterling first as the US dollar isn't worth more than Monopoly money these days. Cheers! Oh, and Rule Britainnia!

eM DuBYaH
eM DuBYaH

Ok, mista' Irishmun, without checking any statistics, I'm willing to bet my next paycheck that people around the globe aren't busting down any doors trying to make their way into Ireland! Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to visit Ireland. I'm a part Irish mutt myself, but I just wouldn't want to live there. My personal recommendation: Drink a pint, and CHILLOUT!! I detect a note of jealous hostility there! For sake of argument the "COMMON" language of the United States of America (GREATEST NATION THERE IS - roll that up tight and smoke it) seems to attract a whole lotta' immigrants. From the goodly legal peeps (AMERICAN ENGLISH SLANG THERE)to illegal aliens. So. I feel better getting that off of my chest, and I love how far off of the original post this thread has gone! GOD BLESS AMERICA!! (hope i'm ruffling feathers- 'cuz (more AMERICAN ENGLISH SLANG there) I'm having a lot of fun here at my desk, speaking/writing English in the GREATEST COUNTRY ON EARTH! At least until if/when Obama is elected. (this should set off a flurry of fury) :-)

eM DuBYaH
eM DuBYaH

See my previous post. Spanish didn't make America great, ENGLISH DID. Because political correctness is mucking up the works in the here & now, doesn't change the past. This is America. Like it or lump it. How's that? Oh, lastly, the purpose of this thread isn't to carry on a silly argument. Rant/rave all you want, I'm not carrying this thread any further. Bet you're voting Obama,eh? :-)

eM DuBYaH
eM DuBYaH

Plus you Brits have the most kikkarse accents too!

almostfm
almostfm

The problem is that trying to get that rule changed would actually require a constitutional amendment. The 14th amendment says that anyone born here is automatically a citizen, so to get rid of the "anchor baby" problem, you'd have to go through the process to get the 14th changed.

2WiReD
2WiReD

seriously, ye spend like 5 generations in a place and swear ye were the natives.... in fact, a higher population of the native american indians were exterminated by your forefathers than Hitler managed with the Jews. Put that in your peacepipe and shove it up your xenophobic a$$

2WiReD
2WiReD

"You don't like the official language of the greatest country in the world " Firstly, Greatest country in the world?? rotfl! Secondly: The reason that developing nations teach students English is simple, the colonial empire of the English left most of the powerful nations in the West English speaking, but then set up education systems that taught other languages, in general, very poorly. As a result, you want to deal with German, French or Spanish speakers, chances are they speak English too, so its the lowest common denominator for most businesses. In Sweden and many other countries, its standard business practice in a meeting that if one person of the group has a different first language, regardless of what it is, the meeting is conducted in English [e.g. Siemens]. This is generally not to favour any potential American client, but simply because most other European countries have far better language education than English speaking countries. You do realise that just by claiming things, it doesn?t necessarily make it correct, don?t you?

Dr. Tarr
Dr. Tarr

...doesn't HAVE an official language!!!!!

sduran
sduran

However, according to one of your fellow countrymen, you have no pulled pork there. So in keeping in line with the article.... OMG!!! WTF????!?!?

ken4zen
ken4zen

Where to start? I just assumed that anyone who works on computers wouldn't fall into the prehistoric thinking that one language is the answer. What's the official language for computers? Better get ready for a tirade, Moejj, cuz I think they are inventing a couple new computer languages just for the hell of it, right now as we speak. And unless you speak like the Queen of England, Moejj, don't call it English, call it American. You'll like American, it's got fewer words. Funny thing, as an American you've probably heard of freedom of speech. There is no official language for freedom of speech. It applies to all languages. Don't like it? LEAVE!! This is America, buddy!

WhoDo
WhoDo

Agreement with every word

Tink!
Tink!

We have to somehow pass a law that allows us to tax illegals. Like a "residency tax". They have to do something to earn the privileges they are demanding. These privileges were reserved for American citizens, not illegal residents.

NotSoChiGuy
NotSoChiGuy

That is perhaps the #1 travesty of justice when it comes to immigration. It is also a big reason why so many people come here in the first place...pop a kid, get to stay. Repealing that law/rule would be a pretty good start towards deterrent measures. Also, did you see the news coverage of the rally in downtown Chicago for illegal alien rights? This issue has gone far beyond just the ones coming across the border. There was an estimate that there may be up to 40K illegal Irish (that seemed like a BS stat to me, but what do I know) in the city, up to 30K illegal Chinese, and about 15K illegal Polish...among our friends who are here illegally from sub-Texan America. Y-I-K-E-S!!! On a side note, assuming the illegal alien issue isn't resolved anytime soon, I wouldn't be surprised if this is used for traction by the groups that support a federal sales tax as opposed to the current taxing system. If you can't tax them legally, and you can't kick them out...only way to get anything out of them is to tax what they buy (everyone has to eat, drink and wear clothes).

jdclyde
jdclyde

the least I can do is go back and actually read your post instead of just the title, huh? :D The mexicans are complaining about guns being smuggled into mexico and we are not doing anything about it. Maybe we should MAKE A FENCE????? And sharks with lazers, yeah, lazers... If an illegal gets caught for anything, there should be nothing done but drive them DIRECTLY to the boarder and throw their a$$ back over the fence. If they have family here that doesn't like it, they always have the choice of joining the ejected one back across the border, so they won't feel bad about being separated. still laughing at your title Tink!.... Ever hear song 11 on Jackyl's first CD? :0

jdclyde
jdclyde

do you have ANY idea what your last title looks like at a quick glance.... :0 :^0 :x

Tink!
Tink!

I too disagree vehemently with the how much we cater to non-english speaking. Especially the non-citizens, in particular the Spanish speaking non-citizens. It used to be that you had to speak English to become a citizen. Now we've let things slide so bad that we actually offer services to NON-citizens, scratch that - ILLEGALS. [i](there are [b]many non-citizens[/b] that are here legally and are going through the proper process to become a citizen, so I do not want to cut those people down)[/i] Now everything is printed and recorded in English and Spanish. Children of Illegals are automatically U.S. citizens - something I think [b]HAS to be changed NOW![/b] Because then what happens is if we try to deport the parents, they fight to stay because their child can and we can't separate a family! Illegals have held rallies to get rights - why should we give them the same rights as legals citizens have? That's the point of being a LEGAL citizen - to gain those privileges by pledging your loyalty to this country. Illegals' loyalties still lie with their home country, they only come here for the better opportunites. And who wouldn't? We give them food stamps, medical benefits, jobs, and even mortgages! I have nothing against spanish speaking people in general. It's the Illegals that I do not appreciate. I do not think that they should be getting anywhere near as much as they are being given. And I certainly do NOT agree with having everything in Spanish too! This country was built on the backs of foreigners - and all learned English to survive here! Ugh. I'm stopping myself here before I carry on too far. No offense to any spanish speaking individuals whom are here legally. [edited to keep dirty minds from only reading the title :p ]

RFink
RFink

That bill died in Congress. English is the "common" language of the US. There's a Sumpreme Court ruling that requires election ballots to be in multiple languages so that non-English speaking citizens can vote. Personally I think that's a crock of sh**.

jdclyde
jdclyde

He didn't say [b]FORMER[/b] greatest country.... :p :D

Bizzo
Bizzo

Yeah. England is great, isn't it! ;)

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