IT Employment

Supervisor wants employee to quit part-time job

An IT pro working for a company and who hasn't had a raise in three years, was forced to take a part-time job in addition to his full-time one. But his supervisor doesn't like it.

I got an email from a TR member who is dealing with an unfortunate situation:

"I haven't received an increase in pay for three years.  That being said, I had to take on a part-time job.  Not because I'm buying new TVs and cars, but because my pay rate hasn't increased with the cost of living. Anyway, I'm salary and regularly give over 48 hrs a week to my full time employer by getting in an hour early and skipping lunch.

A situation recently developed where I'm expected to work outside the 8 to 5 standard which would now conflict with my part-time employment.  In the past, working weekends or staying late was never an issue for me.  However, having the part time job I can't do those hours anymore.

I was gently informed that I could "get leaned on" by not doing the afterhours/weekend stuff because the main, full-time employment should be my priority.  I don't necessarily disagree with that in principle as the full-time job pays most of the bills and pays my health insurance but I still need the part-time money.  It's not like I got a part-time job because I want the little extras.  I hate having to work a part-time job, but being without an increase in three years has had an impact.

So it comes down to this . . .what do I do?"

  • I followed up with this TR member, and got the following information for more perspective:
  • He's been at the full-time place for 12 years
  • He and his supervisor along great; this is the closest they've ever come to having any type of falling out situation.
  • No one else in the company has received a rate increase over the three years either
  • Throughout the time without an increase, our guy has continued to take on new responsibilities, which most companies would see as grounds for a merit raise, not just cost of living.

I asked him if he thought his supervisor could champion his cause for a raise to those higher up, but he said his supervisor sees the issue the same way--that he should give up his part-time job.

So, this is a hard one. I believe this company is unrealistic if it thinks they're going to keep their outstanding employees on indefinitely without any pay raise. But, at the same time, the company operates in an at-will state so if it wants to lay someone off for this, it can.

I would recommend a heart-to-heart talk with the supervisor but I think the supervisor is already aware of the problem and doesn't want to bend on it. I wish I could recommend an action other than looking for another job.

Has anyone had direct experience with this kind of thing?

About

Toni Bowers is Managing Editor of TechRepublic and is the award-winning blogger of the Career Management blog. She has edited newsletters, books, and web sites pertaining to software, IT career, and IT management issues.

64 comments
TBone2k
TBone2k

Every place I have worked has some sort of policy about working another job that conflicts with your assigned duties. Not just in a conflict of interest sort of way. As for the 48-hour weeks, depending on where you live you may be entitled to something. Where I live, anything over 44 hours a week and you are automatically entitled to overtime, even if you work salary.

mulehorse
mulehorse

I think if the super is willing to compensate the employee at the level of his loss. I'm thinking the emp. would gladly do so. If not then No way jose.

sslevine
sslevine

If he manages other people and if he makes at least $455 a week, he probably is legitimately an exempt employee. However, if he doesn't *meaningfully* manage others--i.e he has no real authority over them, no input into hiring and firing, and is more a "team leader" than a "manager"--he might actually be a non-exempt employee and at least be entitled to overtime. If you go to the Dept. of Labor website and look under "wages and hours" (you'll have to poke around a little; it's not a well-organized site), you will be able to find the test(s) for whether someone is truly exempt (what's often called "salaried") or whether they need to be paid overtime.

oldbaritone
oldbaritone

First things first: as others have said, UPDATE YOUR RESUME NOW! Float it out and see if you get any bites. A good friend of mine used to say "Just because I go to the car dealer to see what's there doesn't mean I'm going to buy a car today." He sent out several resumes every year. He told a story of one time when he was an intern, working for a company that had a contractor who was always looking for work. The phone rang, and it was a head-hunter looking for the contractor. When my friend said "he's not here right now" the caller said "No problem. Do you know anyone who might be interested in a one-year gig with a mid-six-figures income?" My friend, young and foolish, said "No" and hung up. As soon as the phone hit the cradle, he says he thought "OMG! What did I just say? Who was that? Arrrrrgggggghhhhh!!!!" At that instant, he decided this would never happen again. And he started sending out resumes. The worst time to look for a job is when you NEED to do it. So get a head-start now. As other members have said, it looks like you may be looking for a new job soon. Start looking while you're still employed. If you haven't already, lay your cards on the table. Tell your employer the situation, that the second job became necessary because your salary has been steadily decreasing when adjusted for inflation. And stress your perspective of "Not because I???m buying new TVs and cars..." Prepare for the discussion in advance. Check the Consumer Price Index and Retail Price Index figures for those 3 years, so you can quote them. "Government figures show..." Not just your opinion, but an authoritative source. And be willing to tell them how much you're making at the other job, to show them that after taxes you're actually making about the same money (or less?) that you were three years ago, even though you have to work many more hours to earn it. Then ask what accommodations might be available for the extra time they want. Is there a possibility you can do the extra work by telecommuting, on your own schedule? Is it something you can schedule around your second job, if you have enough advance notice? If not, is your employer willing to provide additional compensation for additional overtime? You mentioned you're working 48 hours a week now; maybe they could do something if you work more than 50? Granted, it's unlikely. But if you're really valuable, maybe something can be done. It's worth asking the question. Frame the discussion with the attitude "I'm willing to do what's needed, and we need to figure out a way that I can. If I give up the second job, I need to make up that money. If you can't give me a raise, how can we work this out so I can do what you need and still pay all of my bills?" And START LOOKING NOW for a new job that will pay all of your bills - without the part-time job. Good Luck!

jaydub44
jaydub44

Tender your resignation, effective immediately, then, as you have the knowledge of their systems, offer them your services at slightly higher than normal contractors hourly rates.

janet.mobley
janet.mobley

the company should pay overtime for the extra weekends/nights and then the person would not need the 2nd job.

bobf
bobf

See if you can find employment where the employer is loyal to you. Good luck with that.

r.m
r.m

Possibly you could look for a more flexible PT job that would still, in the end, give you the same amount of income??..

johnsteel
johnsteel

I would talk to the part time employer and see if you can change your hours around a little. I would also see if you could work on an as needed basis and possibly make more money per hour. As the full time position goes, I would stop working through your lunch hour. I would not go in early either unless an emergency came up. Use that time in the morning to brain storm for a new job. You have been there for 12 years and they are taking you for granted. You may remember all the times you have come in early or worked through lunch, but they do not. Many people are in simular situations. The economy is slowly improving and a large percentage of workers will be quiting their jobs to find better paying jobs. You are doing yourself a disservice by not looking for a new job.

bsharpe37
bsharpe37

As an Ex- HP Employee I was given much of the same option. I was always working full-time and always willing to put in those 50 hour weeks. However pay raises were Frozen and even changing jobs in the company you could not get the rate that job offered to someone new filling the position. So I hung in there until I found another Full-time job, i offered them to match it's rate or I was gone, they didn't and I left. I had been employed there for more then 3 years and had operated in every department in the building. If anyone didn't know how to do something or had a question I was the GO-TO guy, however new employees would get hired in at a higher rate and I was passed up on for a pay raise even to match new employees with little to no experience. So it comes down to this, sometimes the big guy cant see the big picture. You will have to let that company go and find another job, if your concerned about the job market, you haven't looked everywhere. I see jobs for all sorts of IT related information. The job may seem like a lot of work but after you have been at it for a bit and structured things your way / the correct way. Then life gets easy. PS: Systems Administrator / Server Admin. w/degree

schmidtd
schmidtd

The core of the problem this person faces is the expectations of each party aren't clearly laid out. Fire at will (i.e. right to work) means you can be fired for anything that isn't specifically prohibited and the burden is on you to prove that you were fired wrongly. To an extent this person's choices are look for a new job or suck it up. So shadowy demands of "you need to be available at other times, you know what I mean" are well within the employer's ability to enforce. OK tactics. Obviously this job isn't meeting your needs as is, so the simple answer is you eventually need a new job. You could ask for some understanding "hey, I will come in unscheduled if it is truly critical, but unless it was truly critical and unexpected please work with me proactively to plan for after hours." For a reasonable human, that should work. Hopefully your secondary job is flexible enough to accommodate this. If you don't trust either employer, you could keep it all a secret. I am sure for a while you can just say "I am unavailable right now" with no explanations. That can work for a while if you are valued by your current employers. Unfortunately there is a lot of emotion and personal issues that affect this situation, but again that is what it means to work without a contract.

aeiyor
aeiyor

Good Day All. WOW... If I didn't know it any better, it sounds like a story of mine that I am in and experiencing. Though right now I didn't explore a 2nd p/t job option. However, keeping ALL options open. As for the notation on HR -- I would refer to the other article that Toni wrote which I will be commenting on shortly. Options are right now bleak the economic excuse currently holds water when you join the many who are unemployed and doing their best to look for job opportunities. And to make matters worse you aren't only competing with people who lost jobs but also from the new blood coming into circulation right from college or High School. The bad thing in this is that its a shooting foot effect that company's are doing. And some maybe unable to help it because of their situation but their contributing to the events that are unfolding. Consider that if company's doesn't pay employee's for cost of living or merit increases etc.. the economic situation continues to worsen because obviously no cash flow is generated in any direction. This in turn causes the business not to profit as much due to decreased economic circumstances being felt by everyone. Not enough money is being circulated and each business in turn feels the pain. I don't see a whole lot of improvement. Times are truly challenging - considering what all is happening in the world at this time. Sincerely, Satori.

LHunnebeck
LHunnebeck

I would ask the supervisor to go with me to HR to ask their advice. That is what HR is for. The employee is obviously a valuable asset to the company and wants to find a way to make this work. The supervisor likes the employee, but doesn't see any other possibilities than to quit the other job. The employee doesn't want to damage the relationship with the supervisor by going over his head, so go to HR together to seek their advice. If HR is good at what they do they will help find a creative way of solving both parties' problems. Perhaps they could negotiate as to when and how often the employee will do overtime and/or weekends, and how much notice before hand to make arrangements. Meanwhile, is there any flexibility in the part-time job? If not, could the employee find a different part time job with more flexibility? The employee should explore these options as well. It may well turn out that the employee does have to move on, but don't take the tack of making it an all or nothing unless you have to. Take the tone that we are working together to make this work for the company. Quite frankly, many organizations call for after-hours and weekends more out of habit than necessity. These should be used only when absolutely necessary, not as a regular way of doing business.

colivares
colivares

First of all what type of IT job is this member doing that they are salary. I would re read that job description because a majority of IT jobs unless they are management should be hourly with OT and on call compensation. If they having you work by skipping lunch that is also missed meals whether or not it's your decision. Let them lean on you cause I can guarantee you have a case for unlawful termination and a whole bunch of back pay. Give your labor board a call. Too many people don't want to rock the boat by doing this but a lot of times it's worth the phone call. Regardless if they are in at will state it's worth the investigation. I live in California and we are an at will state and let me tell you I use to be in the HR side of the business and the "i" and "t's" better be dotted and crossed if a company gets sued by an employee. Sounds mean but I have seen a company take advantage of people and they got theirs in the end.

jgalante
jgalante

i also am in the samwe exact situation, have asked for a pay increase so that i can afford to pay my mortgae which has gone up due to variable rate. so i took a second job to help cover these expenses. i am currently earning less than the starting salary for a senior systems engineer 15 yrs experience. 6 years at his current company. they told me i should never expect another pay increase

ITsupportCOC
ITsupportCOC

I feel this situation...been there, done it, still doing it. Health benes went up my pay went down. No pay raise in 3 yrs either. Their screw in my side? Your Salary and job duties as assigned so we got ya. They can work you like a horse and not care. Which they dont...the life/work balance promised? Just a fairy tail like unicorns and genies.

treyler
treyler

Companies need to remember employees are people and have needs of our own. If those needs are not met, you have to get them met somewhere. If the regular job does not allow you to meet your needs financially, the company loses. Employees have to find some way to meet those needs. If your company will not let you work an outside job, they should look at a salary increase.

spencer2
spencer2

I too work in an at will state. The TR person is in no win situation. Unless the employer gives him a specific reason for termination (in writing) and they have a policy against "moonlighting". He's done

WishtobeIT
WishtobeIT

I've read almost all of the comments posted thus far. I agree (to some extent) with the ones that basically say find another (FT) job, however, it may not be that easy. Also, the comment concerning the econonmy being used as an excuse...yes, many are using the economy as an excuse not to give raises, however, some companies really can't do it. Of course, unless someone is senior management, then the general employee will never know the truth behind what's true verses what's a lie. I work in county government and I haven't seen a raise in 2 years, however, for some of my co-workers, it's been longer. It just so happened that they stopped the raises about 2 months AFTER my Performance Eval (5/2000), so I barely made it. Maybe the person that has this issue can put some feelers out there for other employment, but at the same time, approach their PT employer to see if they'd be willing to flex him/adjust his schedule--depending on when he's required to do the OT. Even alot of PT employers are flexible as they too don't want to lose hard-working, dependable people. I would probably lean towards trying to make a change with the PT situation. This raises another question: Are employees REQUIRED to notify their employer, manager, compnay, etc. IF and/or when they take on a part time job? Some require it, others don't care as long as it's not in the same field or a conflict with FT job. Thanks.

katinya
katinya

i have friends right now that are going through this same thing. one friend has worked 32 days straight, and less than 2 months later, she was sick due to being overworked. she hasn't had a raise in 3 years either, but has a lot more responsibility today. you have to dust off your resume and make a change for yourself. there is no growth where you are right now, and you have given a lot by not having a pay raise in 3 years. Companies expect you to give so much with not giving much in return. It is a common problem these days that makes you look bad because you want a better quality of life. GO FOR THE BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE PLEASE!

AR1053
AR1053

You hi the nail on the head- there likely are others who have received some sort of bump in pay but not within your view. Usually its an a management level- assuming you're an exempt employee after 12 years which means your 8 extra hours weren't paid you really have no reason to stick around. In times when employers stop paying for your work employers simply loose good employees. They try to make money by hedging a bet you're not going to leave. Hiring and training a new employee would be more expensive unless you're playing XBOX all day instead of working.

jalcock
jalcock

I wouldn't tolerate 3 years without a raise - I would have left after the first. To me, the first sign of a problem is when you feel you need to take on a second job just to pay your bills when it used to be a non-issue. If this guy is really a performer, then he should have no issue finding employment with a company that appreciates his skills and abilities. There's a great deal of talk of loyalty out there, but little talk about how it has to be a two-way street. If your employer can't find it in their budget to provide pay increases then they are either in a bad financial situation or they really don't care about their employees. (neither helps you in the long-term) To me, happy employees are productive employees. They get the job done faster and better, and I make sure to compensate them appropriately so that I reduce the risk of losing them. 12 years is a good run - leaving now might be daunting but it may be the opportunity they need to find something better. At the very least its worth looking.

CorporateLackie
CorporateLackie

How about this: If you have the ability to re-schedule your hours at your PT position, tell your full-time boss that if he needs you evenings and weekends that you can change your scheduled hours, but that you think your current 20% free OT is more than adequate demonstration of your "loyalty". If it is random free OT they want I think you are well within your rights to tell them you need notice of "non-casual" OT requirements. ... yeah like they would not toss you to the curb in a second right? You may also want to check with your state employment office to see if perhaps your job is mis-classified and should be an HOURLY paid position to begin with rather than flat salary.

cynic 53
cynic 53

In good Old Blightly we have some legal protection as regards our work/life balance. Not only is there a very helpful cap of 48 hours per week for most types of employment from the European Union Laws but unless your Contract of Employment has provisions for paid call-outs in out of work hours then generally what you do in your spare time, not paid for by your primary employer is totally up to you. The only other caveats would be provisions for work related matters out of normal hours and these would either be paid over and above the normal salary or that would already be at a a level to reflect this possible additional work, e.g. a Senior Manager, Director etc. There could be a restriction to forbid work for a trade competitor and that is of course quite reasonable. Apart from that an employee in the UK is generally free to do whatever they please in their own free, non work, non paid for time and that could include working in a non related industry or enterprise, say in a bar, cafe, shop etc. This might only become an issue with their main employer if they were too tired owing to that additional work to perform their duties competently at their main employment . It is unlikely that a UK employee would tell their main employer about any out of hours work they did elsewhere and generally they would be under no legal obligation to do so. Many Brits work in pubs in the evenings or weekends to boost their income. Here in the UK the vast majority of employees work to live and NOT live to work and there is a distinct and very important separation between a person's work life and their real life and generally we would resent interference by an employer in what we do outside of the normal working hours for which they pay us. Generally we do not go for the "One big happy family" attitudes that some US Employees have. towards their Employers, and "Mr Boss-man" butts-out when it comes to what we do outside of his factory or office and for those hours for which he does NOT pay us.

Dizzley
Dizzley

They think they are doing you a favour by keeping you in a job and want to bully you. Time served at any company does not confer an advantage. In fact by staying there for 12 years you have devalued your skill set and marketability. They show they would penalise you with no compunction. It's time to look for a new job and put up with the "leaning" for a few months while you get in the new place.

GreenPirogue
GreenPirogue

I have been with my company for about seven years. I was getting 5% pay increases the first several years (based on merit, not cost-of-living), and when the economy went south, they froze raises for all but "key employees" (read that as senior management and nurses). And at this point, I am thinking of either getting a part time job or leaving, neither of which my employer really wants. I don't think it is reasonable to expect longer hours after a pay freeze for years. Maybe a year or so, but now I think the employer is just being unreasonable. For me, I will probably be leaving, more because I see this short-sightedness as something that means perhaps the complany will not do as well in the future. And the company's future is my future. Have a frank discussion with your boss - but don't go over his/her head.

shrikanth.kondupalli
shrikanth.kondupalli

This problem is faced by almost all people. In your case instead of fighting with the No Hike with management you took a deviation of doing a part time. Usually all employees are legally not supposed to work for any other company/full or part time. So irrespective of your situation what you have done is wrong (legally). My personal opinion is, better to come out of your limitations and search for a new job or show up your good work/character to your management and get the desired benefit. Doing a part time irrespective of other issues is different but in this case i felt you have done a wrong thing by choosing it. Any how all the best and do well.

richard.artes
richard.artes

Yes, go over the supervisors head and talk to senior management is what I did in this this case. My own boss said sorry, no, there is no chance of a raise. So I went one step higer, saw his boss, explained the situation and why I thought I deserved a raise. She agreed, I got the raise. Better than losing a valued employee, right?

egmccann
egmccann

Assuming, of course, the company's not small enough that his super or his super's boss isn't also HR. If an employee can't get an issue resolved via normal channels (super/boss) it's time to talk to human resources and lay it out much like he has here. 12 years experience, no raise in three years, voluntarily working extra hours and still having to get a part time job - get it (and the "they may lean on you" bit) on record there. This isn't "This is the first time they've ever asked me to work over, and I don't think it's fair," it sounds like he's given more than enough to expect a little consideration (and cash) in return.

DavMar
DavMar

Is it not a shame that the workers normally need to "sponsor" the economy? It would be interesting to know what increases and bonuses management was paid during the same 3-year period.

bbell
bbell

CA is an at will state, but I guarantee you that any first year labor lawyer would have a field day with this employer if they decide to take disciplinary action against this employee for his refusal to work outside of his normal schedule. I'm not sure what state he is in, but in California retaliation against an employee is illegal. It is very hard to prove, but illegal nonetheless. If he has a solid track record of reliability, positive performance reviews, etc., his supervisor should setup a meeting with their HR department to try to resolve the situation. If they are unwilling to give the guy a raise, maybe they can schedule patches, upgrades etc, in a way that does not conflict with his part-time job.

toni.bowers_b
toni.bowers_b

The gentleman who sent me the original question this installment of the blog was based on wrote back with some follow-up info and to address any questions raised in the discussion. Here's what he said: "After the 2nd year of no increase, I started passively looking for new employment. I had a job so there wasn???t a real sense of urgency. However, at that time I did dust off, update, and tweak the resume along with starting to pay more attention to the job boards. Now with this recent development, I???ve contacted a recruiter/head hunter to give me a hand. The whole situation is really too bad. All in all, it???s not a bad company and I???d rather not leave, but I feel my hand is being forced so I???ll do what???s necessary. Unfortunately, I don???t think I have much leverage. I have some very old certs and don???t have any degrees. I also work in the smallest state in the country which isn???t known for it???s high pay scale. As far as the bluff thing goes, when the time comes, I will call them out. I don???t feel I???d get fired on the spot, or even within months of refusing to work outside my normal scheduled time, but I???m sure it would come up at some point."

John_LI_IT_Guy
John_LI_IT_Guy

That is total crap the way you are being treated. I never believed IT people needed a union but the last couple of years changed my mind. I believe they have their place in companies that have practices like this. I agree with the other folks, time to start looking for another position. I like the idea of showing up to work in a suit.

ajaxnii
ajaxnii

I also work in a right to hire right to fire state. I also am going on 3 years with out an increase and I am being told that this has occurred before and will most likely go on for the next 2 years. I am in the process of applying for new jobs and adding part time work onto my plate as I need more $ too. I know this is a hard choice how ever my supervisor sees the situation and is looking to help. Good luck to you!

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

If it was me I'd tell my supervisor to take his face hence, but I've never struggled to find another role. Drag your heels on getting rid of the part time job, and get looking for another full time one, preferably where the aprt time one was no longer required. Got to put food on the table which means sometimes you are forced to take it up the arse, the trick is not to make a career out that, which you will if you keep bending over.... Having been there 12 years (I did 19 for my first employer) you tend to get institutionalised, you are out of practice interviewing, confidence easily dented, and teh sort of gits who'd play this trick will play on that. Don't believe 'em You are the one with the experience and the skills, they will (unless you have a radical career change) be applicable to a new role. It's hard, but you have to take control, climb out the seemingly comfortable rut, when you've done it once ot twice and realised that your tech career is basically SSDE, this sort of blackmail becomes a joyful anticipation of payback... One more thing if you had a good relationship with your boss, he'd go to bat for you. He didn't, so wipe your feet on him on the way out.

CorporateLackie
CorporateLackie

Tbone2k: Where do you live ... I'm packing my stuff ;-) Seriously, if you don't mind my asking ... where DO you live, I like that regulation!

adamspivey
adamspivey

They did the same thing for several years at my company. People worked weekends and late nights but got paid the same. Be careful of salary jobs in I.T., I almost guarentee you most of those are going to be 50 to 60 hours a week.

steve
steve

Once you have tried working the system, while looking for your next job, work to rule. Come in late, go home early, take time off in lieu of put of hours work in the middle of the week. Make sure you use up all your sick days. Have some relatives die so you can take some funeral leave. Get headaches in the middle of the morning and go home without notice. Push it as far as you can. The bastards have been taking and taking, it is your turn to take back.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Legally not allowed to work for some other company. Where the heck are you from, I'll avoid it! Show up your good character to management... Your place might not be hard to avoid, as I ran out of fuel for my spaceship... See wimps this is how you down vote!

roninido
roninido

@shrikanth.kondupalli Sorry, not sure what's legal and what's not in your part of the world, but to the best of my knowledge, here in the US and in many parts of the world, taking a second job it is NOT a question of legality. While I don't know the complete specifics of this person's terms of employment, I would guess that what this person has done is NOT wrong "legally" (or morally, for that matter), or else their employers would have applied much more pressure about getting rid of the second job. No offense, but poor advice and harsh judgmental attitude by saying they "have done a wrong thing".

Young_Jedi
Young_Jedi

I've never heard of such a thing were getting a part-time job was illegal. Yes, certainly an issue if your PT work was a competitor of your full time gig, but illegal to work at pizza joint or pub . . . I don't think that's accurate.

RASkelton
RASkelton

I have been laid-off under (probably) illegal circumstances, but there is no/little upside in fighting. There are 2 bad choices: you can sue for your job back - but why would you want to still work for such a company, and why would they want you as an employee? - or you can sue for "compensation" - but the cost of a law suit, especially when the company has many more resources ($$$) than I, far outweighs any benefit to winning. Having a law that makes this type of labor practice illegal does not mean there is any real deterrent to the activity.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

is worth much more that paper. If they are searching for MCSE etc, they almost certainly don't want you anyway, well not unless you have some unslakeable desire for a pay cut...

CorporateLackie
CorporateLackie

Hell yes to the suit. Get a nice haircut. wait a few days schedule 1/2 day afternoon vaction in the middle of the week and wear your suit in that morning ;-)

MaSysAdmin
MaSysAdmin

I agree that with a 12 year record at one employer, you are not going to be seen as a job hopper at all. I would CAREFULLY start job hunting for a new full time position. I was fortunate that I got let go just over a year ago by my employer of 3 years. It was a rough year but within 10 months I landed a position where I almost doubled my pay and I'm FAR happier to boot.

Derek Freeman
Derek Freeman

Good point Tony! After 12 years you have probably gained a lot of corporate knowledge that is valuable to your company. I doubt they will let you go easily. But be careful calling their bluff anyway, unless you really do have something to fallback on. Loyalty is great, but remember business is business. You have to do what is best for you and your family, because business is always going to what is best for the bottom line, feelings aside.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

19 years started on a welfare to work scheme ended up pretty much building the system that ran a 1,000,000 tonne mill, the f'kers told me, that was it end of my career. I'd achieved as much as I ever could. I said see ya, gave them time to get a replacements and for me to train him.. 7 more employers since then if you count those I contracted or consulted for. Grand total of seven weeks out of work since Jan 1981. It's all about attitude, if you don't belive in yourself, no one will believe in you, course 25 years as yet undiscovered incompetence helps a bit. :p My adivice is always, as soon as they start taking you for granted, make them pay for their presumption.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

19 years in with my first employer and they ditched me. The thing is they could only afford to ditch me because I was a professional. I had a fully trained and more than competent understudy. I pride myself on writing robust, comprehensible and therefore maintainable code, and we didn't do anything with out bearing documentation in mind. It would have been easy for me (without doing anything at all naughty), to leave them in a deep mess. I built the machines, installed the software designed the databases, and wrote every single line of code. A year's work as the sole developer on the team. This was intermediate control softwaere for 1,000,000 tonnes a year 24/7 manufacturing plant. So the real bottom line is if you employ good people at the start that gives you more fiscal freedom when you need it. All too often IT starts cheap and them they employ people like us, to unf**k it, and that always costs more... The only loyalty I have is my famility and to my own personal integrity, good managers use that, bad ones try to abuse it.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

If you are going to down vote me, say why. Wimps.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

If I've got to leaving, I don't ever want to work for them again, unless they've changed substantially for the better in which case they won't have a problem with me. You are operating on the presumption that I need some specific employer on side, that without them my chances of work are somehow dramatically reduced. There are thousands who could make use of me, I don't need to pander to the prejudices of a proven failure to get a job. If we get to the point where I'm leaving acrimoniously, then as a manager, they have failed!. There's nothing professional about choosing to managed by a known failure, choosing to repeat the error means you are too stupid to live. It's horribly obvious that this guy's employer has no respect for him, well in my world you get what you give. If you don't give them both barrels on the way out. You are saying. It's OK to treat me like this. It's just part of doing business. Yu won't be penalised for abusing me. I'll let you do it again at some point in the future. Stuff that!

lucyemmai
lucyemmai

Whilst the main thrust of these threads may be right (you have transferable skills and may be reticent to move but perhaps should look) you should never "wipe your feet" on people as you leave. You never know when you'll meet up with them in your later career life and, even if you don't, there's never any need to behave like a yob. Find your new job, explain you reasons and leave on good terms. If you do find an alternative role but you'd still rather stay, you could discuss with them the cost of replacing you and whether or not it would make sense for them to up your pay by enough to remove the need for the part time role. It's reasonable to expect that they may have to pay upwards of 10% of your basic salary to replace you, although they may work from a cheaper monster type recruitment model. If you know how they recruit then this might be worth considering as a discussion point.