IT Employment

There are no hiring shortcuts

As a hiring manager, do you depend on superstition and dubious statistics to help you choose the right person?

David Wagner wrote a good story for InformationWeek about the strange hiring criteria some countries and companies use. For example, there are companies in China and Australia that will only hire people born under certain zodiac signs. In Japan, it is common to factor blood type into hiring decisions, based on the belief that blood types determine personality. Xerox believes its ideal call center candidate would be someone who uses more than one social network but fewer than four.

Wagner talks about how Big Data may someday soon influence hiring more than we'd like and in ways that are a little unquestionable. He quotes one statistic that says that people who live within 10 minutes of the office are 20 percent likelier to stay at a job at least six months than those who live 45 minutes away.

I'm not sure if people are turning to these types of things because they don't want to do the work involved in making a hire, or if they're just so terrified that they'll make a bad hire that they lean on superstitions to give them more confidence.

Of all the factors that don't bode well for corporations, this may be one of the scariest. If hiring managers don't have the instinct or knowhow to find the right talent, then why are they hiring managers?

About

Toni Bowers is Managing Editor of TechRepublic and is the award-winning blogger of the Career Management blog. She has edited newsletters, books, and web sites pertaining to software, IT career, and IT management issues.

54 comments
tech_ed
tech_ed

The problem is that most companies want to cheat!

They do not want to train anybody, they want you to already know *EVERYTHING* about whatever esoteric product that company uses/sells/manages. They require that you have a security clearance, yet they don't want to pay for you to get that security clearance! 

As a person looking for a job, I have found that if you don't hit all the bullet points of whatever laundry list of requirements the hiring manager spouts out, then you don't get the job...I kinda think they do this so that they can make a case for off-shoring the position instead of using available workers here in this country! 

I saw an entry level position for a Help Desk technician...required a TS/SCI with Poly....HUH? what entry level person is going to have that level of security? If you have that level of security, then you are already Level 3 or higher! 

pjboyles
pjboyles

They add these unmeetable requirements then do a computer screen that returns zero candidates. Now off to the H1B for a job that local talent cannot fill. Of course the H1B candidate can't meet the requirements either...

premiertechnologist
premiertechnologist

It was quite awhile ago, but the IT Director hired a bunch of folks. After some time, the company looked into it and found they were all from his church.

neilhorrocks
neilhorrocks

Nice article but please go easy on us Aussies. The only references I find for the original article (http://www.livescience.com/17291-astrology-job-discrimination-china.html) seems to talk about an Austrian Insurance company not an Australian Insurance company. In Australia we dont hire people based on their zodiac sign. We might have hired people based on what football team they follow but I couldn't say for sure!

TRgscratch
TRgscratch

as silly as these "criteria" sound, if the most important feature is "will this person fit in?", then his favorite sports team is probably relevant. blood type, OTOH, ...

minstrelmike
minstrelmike

Seems to me the question is: What does a hiring manager manage? If they manage the hiring process by helping the actual boss of the new employee advertise/recruit and interview applicants, then they are useful. This mostly entails giving the boss a list of questions they aren't allowed to ask. But when hiring managers try to actually hire employees for a department they don't know how it operates, that's useless. However, most of the best engineers and salesmen and what have you are good at that job and not necessarily good at hiring or interviewing. It's a catch-22. But who you hire determines how well everything operates so it's worth getting it right.

Ajax4352
Ajax4352

A lot of hiring managers have been with the company a long time, have many important and powerful friends, and have screwed up projects so badly that instead of firing them, they make them hiring managers, thinking they will use practical guidelines to hire and shouldn't be able to screw THAT up at least.

dquayle
dquayle

Making a good hiring decision is perhaps one of the most important and far reaching decisions managers make. Skipping the hard work on this costs your employer money - big money - and there is evidence to support this. No good manager would fail to do the hard work when contemplating a new system. This is no different.

premiertechnologist
premiertechnologist

Management requires far different skills than technology does. Those of us who have read "Hardwired Behavior", "User's Guide to the Brain" (and "Be Yourself" by Margaret Broadley) know this. To be blunt, the hiring manager, let alone HR, probably does not understand the technologist and can never hope to because their brain is structured quite differently. The management and HR brain is insufficient to the task. How to cope? Usually, pick some subset of superstition: Oija boards, chicken entrails, dart boards and if the applicant is really lucky, maybe an earthquake will occur at the time he or she arrives for the interview to show the hiring gods are with the program. The structure of management / HR brains precludes any true understanding of science. Since they have many more applicants than can fill the jobs, they MUST find a way to eliminate the majority of them (in fact, HP found a company that helped with their layoff strategy: Fire old white males who had seniority because they couldn't sue because of discrimination (this started a trend for other companies) and not to put too fine a point on it HP is now in the process of laying off 29,000 people). The best advice I can offer is to "look the part". You're interviewing for a part in a soap opera. Insure that you impart the sense that you can remember your lines. Groom well; dress well (and with good faint but distinctive cologne, smell well). If it's a prestigious company, you know the drill. If its a grunge company, you still know the drill. Convince them that even if you can't fulfill the role, you could play it on TV because these types are all about image over substance -- guaranteed. Note that this also introduces some ethical questions because neither management understands ethics (and if you aren't clued in, I can give you some examples -- the best of which is a government agency that required the ethics course but no longer offered it). Hopefully, after you get the job, it will be the last time you will have to practice deceit (don't outright lie, since they have their radar on for that, just leave out the things that will confuse them most: The technical stuff). Be sure to be fully conversant with smarmy social things like football statistics so if the manager is a buff, you'll be able to discuss all the finer points of MVP and points spread. Ridiculous? Yes. But these are the times we live in: Get used to dumbing yourself down for the interview, because once you have the job, you'll be expected to use your "social skills" for customer service. All because the management and HR are technological imbecilles these days. (A moron has an IQ of 50 to 70; an imbecille has an IQ of 25 to 50; an idiot has an IQ under 25 -- mental age 3 or less; but a fool can have any IQ and management is probably populated by psychopaths -- since it is a matter of natural selection).

CrimeDog
CrimeDog

One now common practice is the process of machine-screening resume submissions, so that HR never even knows about the majority of applicants. If you can't get past 'the machine' you will never get the chance to interview. Your article was doing well until the last sentence. "...If hiring managers don’t have the instinct or knowhow to find the right talent, then why are they hiring managers?..." Selecting the right employee is not a human instinct. Know-how is what is required, and you get that from making (and learning from) bad decisions. As for why they are hiring managers...there are another myriad of reasons for that.

chris.leeworthy
chris.leeworthy

I don't want to come accross as a grammar fiend but that statement left me a bit confused as to what you were saying. Did you mean those practices are questionable (a bit dodgy so to speak) or did you mean those practices are becoming an unquestioned tool for many organisations when hiring?

kalliste
kalliste

...or in may cases, quite a way above their competence and they're stuck because nowhere else would hire them at that kind of pay. It's an inherent pathology of heirarchical, bureaucratic organisations. There should be term limits for managers.

steve
steve

for recruiters and HR on this thread. Which is unsurprising, as a lot of IT professionals view HR as nothing but a bunch of interfering know-nothing busybodies. My own term for HR staff is 'Human Vampire'....nothing but trouble, just creating work for themselves and permanently empire-building.

imppress
imppress

Google will create algorithms that look through the resumes and pick the best candidates far more reliably than the lazy humans. Course that means the HR people are on food stamps... Win some, ya lose some.

joay
joay

Agreed here....

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

Too True Toni! And it's not just hiring managers, recruiters too, they will hire anyone with a pulse these days, as a recruiter. MOST recruiting companies for at least 10 years now have been an utter scam, they scam their client (hiring companies) and they scam their applicants. Companies don't really care as they don't have to hire an HR team or someone to manage hiring when they don't hire daily. It's money wasted these days if someone's not hard core productive for 8.5 hours a day. Even if a recruiter screws them over and they have to rehire once a year, it's still cheaper than full time HR. There are many who no longer trust internal hiring as it takes away from someone's specified role now and they actually still believe a recruiter is specialized in placement. In short, as I have ALWAYS stood firm, call the company you want to work for and get a job with them. I work full time and just yesterday got a lead into a company that 'only hires from online applicants' in fact two of their own employees said so when I called too. Third call and I was telling the owner that I heard it was a good company to work for and I wanted on board. He accepted my resume in his email and today his HR department called and asked if I wanted to interview (THEY CALLED THE NEXT DAY!). Why such instant treatment? As I have also always said, the boss hands them an applicant for review and they drop everything to review it and get me in the door. NO HR phone interview, just straight to the VP of operations. If he doesn't work out I'll call his boss again and find out why. So, once again people: FORGET ads and emails to recruiters or online job banks. Forget HR and these stupid questions. FORGET blood types and people who are SO LOST at their job that they will flip a coin to choose an applicant. NONE of these people, hurdles or departments even come into play if you just learn HOW to find work. Is it 100% pick up a phone and get a job? God no!!!! I have years of practice and have taught it formally but even with a lead it took me three calls to the same guy with two calls being shut down so quickly it makes your head spin. I'm not about to have some 50K a year shmuck tell me who to talk to and how I'll get hired though. I haven't yet been offered the role nor am I eager to jump from my current ship, but keeping doors open and investigating opportunity is always a good energy boost. I'm either going to get a better offer with a company I think I like better too, or I am going to be thankful of where I am for now. If people want to ask you stupid interview questions or you find they have unorthodox hiring methods, keep moving on. If they are that lost as to how to run their business, who the hell wants to work for them???

RMSx32767
RMSx32767

If you were a fruit, what kind would you be? If you were trapped in a salad bowl, how would you escape?

jag022054
jag022054

I thought I already know a lot of discouraging details about IT hiring practices, this brings the nonsense to a whole new level.

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

I did a lot of business with them on Vancouver Island, all friends and family, they operate the typical, it's not what you know but who you know, type of company. Made oodles of cash from them though and not a bad company overall.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

football, religion etc to fit in. Job isn't worth having. They are a set of numbwits and only someone less intelligent would knowingly choose to work for them One job I had dangled in front of me they wanted someone who would play. I thought it was a developer role, where as they really wanted a goalkeeper... Something must have gone badly wrong on that word search. At Acme corp, the goal was to ... Technologies used, Disk Keeper :(

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

If your company operates a sports venue. Besides that, company culture is not dependent on assimilation. My best friend and I have NOTHING in common with respect to sports, but then again, we don't discuss it, just as we don't discuss religion or politics. So how do we become best friends? The differences that set us apart, not the similarities.

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

Just call the boss/owner directly. No HR, no hiring machines, no recruiters that way. And before you say it can't be done that way, with your very unique company with strict policies, it can.

Perry_B.
Perry_B.

there are good recruiters/HR and bad ones; the bad seem to out number the good. When a recruiter calls with contract position, that immediately tells me he did not read my online profile; all of them indicate full time only. Besides, as a team lead, why would I consider an entry level helpdesk position?? Yeah, they read my resume . . .

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

is the algorithm might detect the buzzwords. If I salt my resume with them, then I become the best candidate? Not true even if I have not been somewhat misleading Tony Team player, self starter, Delphi, C, C++, C#,Delphi, Ruby, Fortran, SQL,Perl, PHP, VMS, DOS, Windows, MAc, Linux, ....

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

heuristic buzz word searches have been used by employers and recruiters for years. Then there were sites popping up all over that would tell you which companies were seeking which buzzwords, THEN another company started helping recruiters and employers by planting words that would instantly show that a buzzword list had been purchased and it was a false application. So the algo checks have been implemented, worked around, redefined, worked around etc for about 25 years, that I know of first hand anyway. Problem is, that's how the lazy human weed through the initial candidate list, so the whole hiring system is flawed before even getting to the unqualified, dummies that hire for a living.

Fahim@sickkids
Fahim@sickkids

aidemzo, I really enjoyed reading your reply. I agree with most of what you said, although I have not been good with cold calling. However, all of my jobs have been by applying directly to company's site. Not sure why, hiring via recruiting agency never took a flight...

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

I either make people pucker up or they can squeeze me and have lemonade. Hang on tight to a bacon bit, people always fish them out first.

premiertechnologist
premiertechnologist

The stories I've told. It was my real introduction to the Misfortune 500 as a technologist turned manager there. From the outside it's all single story ranch homes, white picket fences, mom and apple pie. From the inside, the politics alone was enough to make some United States Senators blanch. Then there was the IT Project to end all IT Projects -- and it did: As a result of that $114 million fiasco, one of the major businesses was sold off and all the people I worked with are gone now. It was a chaotic mess, the very picture of "Moral Mazes" by Robert Jackall and "Snakes in Suits" by Dr. Paul Babiak and Dr. Robert Hare. But for the naive outsider, it was all good. That's the power of image over substance. You should note that they've dropped substantially from their Fortune 50 position. Fortunately for me, they fired me before the worst of it all hit and I went back to my old job with more money (from manager back to technologist) and a lot fewer headaches. As a corporation they did me a great favor (I was fired for spilling the beans internally about the corrupt incompetent director they were preparing to fire -- the OSES Director told me as much -- and they finally fired him, but not before he did a lot more damage, you'd be fascinated by the discussion we had). Several years back I was in the parking lot of the Federal Way parking lot listening to a couple of techs talking about trying to find another job and bailing -- they saw the handwriting on the wall. I hope it worked out for them as well as it did for me.

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

Very rarely do they pick, new fresh candidates to put forward. They rely heavily on people becoming disillusioned, desperate and needy. They then tell you that a $35K year role is a good starting point and that it will evolve into a better role. Being desperate, applicants jump at the chance. Bonus: Employer pays bottom dollar for an overqualified employee, BOY THAT RECRUITER WAS GREAT!!! A year later, the recruiter's contract is up, you are tired of being payed poorly and treated like a grunt, the employer loves the recruiter and repeats the process for a new hire. the recruiter offers $40K, the recruiter takes their 16% cut off the top (16% of first year's salary is actually low these days)and sells the job at $33,600/yr. They are heroes again. You work and get sick of a menial job for menial pay, and a year later the recruiter repeats the process again, and again, and again. Their effort is not to find you or the employer a long term candidate, they don't get paid that way.

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

Many companies genuinely feel that a buzzword list will help filter the weak and unqualified out. they REALLY believe it! It is used by 99% of recruiters, which supports my comments on what an unprofessional, unqualified farce recruiting has become these days. The companies that sell lists of the hiring company's selected buzz words illustrate just how useless it is as a weeding method too. Unfortunately it's a reality and all the while that people send off hundreds of resumes each day, illustrating a pathetic stab in the dark at finding work, they are leading others to believe it is effective and worthy. If companies started to take more responsibility and accepted that a bad hire is a bad hire, from the get go, perhaps they will be more focused on how qualified THEY are to recruit people. It's not always the employees fault. Team player, self starter, who isn't? Your certs, while still an impressive list of personal accomplishments, all appear fairly generic to me also. So what makes you stand out from the crowd? IF you were in a position where you needed to rely on a resume for work, which I know you aren't, you'd be one in a million. Nobody would know about Tony's real skill set and what he brings to the table, it's just a list of fairly generic certs, in a large pile of others with fairly generic certs, you'd never get an interview to show your real talents. Yes, I know that this isn't your resume but still, it's a list of certs that you put forward, which means little to nothing to anyone. It's not YOUR fault, it's the hiring company that just shuts their eyes and throws darts at the pile of resumes, in hopes that one will stick.

TRgscratch
TRgscratch

"Delphi" twice... do you have *two* years experience? ;-)

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

YOU are right it is a learned skill, anyone can learn it though. The HARDEST part of cold calling or even calling warm leads is PICKING UP THE PHONE. I've managed major call centres, I've managed small specialized sales teams, I've worked inside and I've worked outside, EVERY SINGLE TIME it is the same issue these people face, and that's picking up a phone and calling people. I've seen 6 figure sales reps fail miserably as they just don't practice phone skills often enough and have always relied on buying lunch or taking prospects to a hockey game. When companies have tighter budgets these days,the schmoozing is reduced and real abilities come into play. Honestly, I can take an entry level telemarketer and make him/her a successful outside sales rep a lot easier than taking a TOP outsides sales rep and teaching him to pick up the phone. Nobody likes it, nobody wants to do it but it has to be done, whether looking for work or selling a product. So how? WRITE A PITCH. Yup, just like a cheesy telemarketer calling you at dinner time with a magazine offer. Find the decision maker: "I am just calling to get some information about progressing in the field of XXXXXX. WHO IS THE OWNER THERE?" Don't ask IF you can talk to someone, don't ask 'would you be able to tell me...." Simply, put. WHO IS THE OWNER THERE? Direct, closed ended questions result in direct, closed ended replies. Instead of hearing, 'he' snot interested, he's not busy, what can I help you with? etc. You are now told, Bob Long or John Doe. Next, 'Perfect, is he/she in right now?' This can be tricky as it is open ended and you are going to be told no, he's on another line, he's in a meeting, he's tied up with month end, he's out of town, he's on holiday, etc. 99% of those replies are straight up lies because the receptionist is being paid to properly screen calls. You can let her do her job and still get what you need. Key phrase: "Fair enough, well perhaps you can help me then." You have just empowered the receptionist again, and eased the defenses by accepting his/her authority. But the only help you want is, "when is the best time to call back? Mornings, afternoons, hit or miss? Believe it or not, hit or miss isn't that bad, you will build a reputation with the receptionist and get put through easier. Hit or miss means call tomorrow morning, then tomorrow afternoon. When you do call back, "Hi Wendy it's Greg again, I'm sorry to inundate you with calls but you mentioned it's really hit or miss trying to reach Gary Manshaw." He/She will automatically say it's no bother, not to worry and you are welcome to call back. If Gary is ever in the office when you call, your new friend, the receptionist, has now succeeded in his/her own mind just by getting you in touch with him. (funny how it turns around from defense to support without the receptionist even realizing it). "Yes, he is here today! Good timing, let me put you through!" Very happy to finally connect you, though he/she has no idea why. If you are asked what it is in reference to, "I just wanted to introduce myself, I'm not with a company trying to sell you something, it's more of a personal nature" At that point they will not probe further, you want to talk to the boss about something that's none of the receptionist's business, it'll come through pretty clear. Well there's your first contact anyway. Now, make sure you write a sales pitch, yes actually write it out like a canned spiel, sounds corny and unnatural but it is proven effective, that's why so many companies still sell that way. Would you buy? Maybe not but thousands will. An old sales term, 'don't pitch the bitch!' keep your special spiel to the boss. Hey Gary, this is Greg Jones,(not too formal, no Mr. Harper crap) thanks for taking my call, I just wanted to introduce myself and I understand that you are the man I need to speak with. Then pitch - I am a seasoned IT professional with 23 years experience with .,..... I hear that you have an excellent company to work for and I was wondering how I would go about becoming part of your team." He will either tell you to apply through HR, in which case ask to be transferred directly. That always get's HR's attention. If you are told to call back, call HR and say you were talking to Gary about a role there so he asked you to forward a resume to him via HR too. You haven't lied to anyone, you simply haven't provided the easy cut-off answer they were looking for, from the receptionist forward. Gatekeepers ask leading questions, they already have a reply to shut you down, no matter what you say. So put yourself in control and lead the conversation the same way. If the receptionist starts asking questions, answer them but ask some questions yourself. When will he be there? IS it better to call in the afternoon? Is there someone else that normally handles day to day operations? Who is the IT manager? Do you know much abotu your IT Department? How many PC's, servers, what NOS is being used etc. Eventually you will have reception off guard and happy to pass on your call as your questions can't be answered and take up too much time. Pestering? Who cares, she's not the hiring manager. Now, repeat that 30-40 times per day with every company you'd WANT to work for, whether they are advertising or not, just use a phone book, online directory etc. If you don't get at least 5 face to face interviews in your first two weeks, I'd be shocked as hell. Just the approach itself sells you, regardless of your skills. In sales it shows drive and tenacity, in IT it shows an ability to think for yourself, an eagerness to get things done even if outside of the normal channels etc. You WILL win. You will ALWAYS win this way. Maybe not right away but in just a few days you will be so good at it, you'll be tossing your IT interest aside for a sales career! Well, maybe not. :D FINAL TIP: Write down 30 or 40 potential prospects but don't call your key choices first, call the small ones first so you can streamline your approach. If told that they are not hiring now. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ask for a referral to someone who is. "Fair enough Gary, it's a bit disappointing that you aren't hiring I really heard you were the company to work for, but do you know anyone else that is hiring or could benefit from someone with my skill set? You will be shocked at how often that leads to a good in with someone else. If he recommends GFH IT services, thank him and ask who you should talk to. Your work is much easier now. "Hi is Benny Jones there?" no, he's busy, can I help you or pass on a message? "Yes, it's Greg calling, I was speaking to Gary over at XYZ company and he suggested I speak with Benny, WHEN is a better time to call for him? Well I guess that's enough for today, tune in next week and I'll show you how to play the flute in one easy lesson and how to rid the world of all known diseases!

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

Answer the question, merely to be polite, but then ask the person what they get from replies to such a questions. Ask honestly and sincerely, is it to find out if people think outside the box, or what? 99% chance they will have NO IDEA but will say it's just a generic question they ask everyone. That's fine, but why? If they ask you a stupid question, for no apparent reason at all, then ask them a relevant question, sincerely, which makes them question their own motives.

minstrelmike
minstrelmike

What if you were in a vegetarian salad? Maybe they don't make those anymore. The first answer is excellent. Any mention of how well you can pucker sounds good to a boss ;-)

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

Too bad about the US big brother approach though. They really step on people's rights. I think instead of so many people worrying about gun laws changing and becoming more stringent, though still allowing the right to bear arms, perhaps more focus should be put toward citizens privacy. It gets mentioned but without the same veracity and heavy handed approach that gun activists put forth for their cause. Do people in the US actually feel that gun law adjustments are more important to focus on than personal privacy rights? Really?

premiertechnologist
premiertechnologist

That Weyerhaeuser is absolutely terrible -- especially to techs (if they all haven't been outsourced and just about all of them have). It's like being in a vast Oriental Kingdom being subject to the Oriental Potentate: You can survive nicely if you don't come to anyone's attention. And if you folks haven't noticed, the latest flap is that the United States is now monitoring everyone (the naive claim we have nothing to worry about if you are doing what you are supposed to, to which I say, that depends upon the opinions of those watching you -- people in power are often nuts and the people subject to them will suffer).

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

There are some strict employment standards here that stop companies from abusing employees, which simply don't exist in most, if not all, states. I've run a company in the US and found it so loosely regulated as to what the employee is entitled to but very open as far as what the employer can get away with. It's pretty crappy for US employees, they basically have to take whatever the company tells them and they have no repercussions regarding huge salary cuts, role extensions, lay offs etc. Essentially, the company can get way with murder. On the other hand, Weyerhaeuser on Vancouver Island is a wholly owned US company, operated through US operations staff and managed by US manager, which was a major problem for them for many years as they broke Canadian employment laws by sending US employees here to work. You can open companies up here, but you are supposd to hire Canadian workers unless in a case where the equivalent Canadian worker is not available (specialists that may not be here etc.) and the only option is to employ a US worker. They have been on the block many times for screwing employees 'The American Way', which doesn't fly up here. For the most part, US companies in Canada have the best of both worlds, they can run in US or Canadian 'mode' and benefit from both. Weyerhaeuser is one shining example and also the fisheries, which was a REAL big issue in the early 90's. Fishing 'opens' are very short, tightly regulated and very busy. US fisheries cried to the Canadian government because fish, that they FELT ENTITLED TO, would normally end up in US waters and were being caught before leaving Canadian waters. This obviously raised the market price in the US for fish, so they wanted greater access to Canadian waters so they could get more fish for less money.Bottom line: ' There's not enough cheap fishing in the US so we want to fish in Canada and import it ourselves instead.' Fair? No, not at all, but our government bends over and spread cheeks for the US government, nobody knows why except money and political corruption. Just think about if the roles were reversed! The Canadian fisheries were already battling for opens and limits with the native fisheries up here, who complained they were not given fair opportunity either. So Canadian fisheries had already lost many thousands as they had to give up time and limits to Indian fishermen. Then when US companies started moaning, the Canadian government increased THEIR openings and limits too, allowing them first opportunity and MORE opportunities in Canadian waters, than even Canadian fisheries were getting. So more fish was going directly to the US from US fisheries in Canadian waters and even less for the Canadian fisheries, which were already losing out to the Natives. End result, Canadian fisheries started paying less and less for the catch, as they were now competing directly with US companies fishing Canadian waters. Eventually fishermen here all went out of business (seriously, MAJOR companies closed the doors and a few small cities practically rolled up the sidewalks) and now it is a US dominated fishing industry here. Even as an American, I don't think you can agree with such practices. Problem with that is, they have different regulations in the US and they are STILL complaining about the lack of openings and limits, even though they have a near monopoly on our own fishing industry!!! . If that happened with Canadian companies operating in the US, we'd never hear the end of it up here. How greedy Canadians are and how we are raping the US of resources etc. When I see US companies coming to fish our waters, strip our forests bare, put local retailers out of business with giant megamarts full of low end garbage, I have little sympathy, which is understandable when you turn the tables of course. Yes our rules are very different up here, but those rules are constantly breached, ignored and challenged by US companies that operate here. Is it right? Hell no! Is it legal? Hell no! But they do it and get away with it more often than they don't, because people are scared to blow the whistle and the Canadian government is afraid we'd perish, if we don't sell all our resources to the US. In reality, the US would perish without our, and everyone else's, imports. Canada carefully protects US operations here, the government seems to like American dollars more than laws. And that's just the west coast, central and eastern Canada have similar issues with their resources too. BItter? Just a bit. ;)

premiertechnologist
premiertechnologist

The Corporations are different. They found this out when they tried to send people from the United States to Canada -- they were sent right back: Some problem with the legalities. I'm thinking that the rules are quite different in Canada and there may not be as much dirty politics allowed in Corporations -- don't know for sure, but it sure seems that way. Thanks for a different view.

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

I was on staff for 4 months to ensure everything got off the ground, right when they were laying off my neighbours too. No disillusions, they are a large corporate entity no matter which way you slice it. There are often business decisions I understand, even though I pity those on the receiving end, that was one of them. I am not about to boycott my own role or complain when it has nothing to do with me, they were paying me top dollar to me as a subcontracted tech (no, I didn't take anyone's job, nobody on staff was qualified). Companies, change, life moves on. I've been screwed by several corporations, at least they thought they screwed me, but I ALWAYS drag them to court and win enough cash to make it well worth my while. If it's not illegal or against Canadian Employment Standards (BC specifically because they can do what they want to employees in Quebec)then I don't bitch about it, business is business, don't expect it to be fair, just legal.

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

Recruitment being so lacking in professionalism and honesty still concerns me less than employers still using them. That's exactly why I don't like employers who use them, it shows how out of touch with reality the company is. If they can't see such an obvious waste of effort, how will they recognize my efforts whether good or bad for the company? Those companies always look to cut salary as a means to retain revenue, instead of looking at the constant cash hemorrhage their company ignores each month.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

They rang me about this great opportunity based on and old resume. It was mildly interesting, so I let them put me forward. As part of the application process I have to fill in an online form with enough information for Brad Pitt to convince my wife he's me with my wig off. I jibbed at that, being some what leery of unsolicited emails directing me to web sites where I fill in loads of personal information in the hope of winning a great prize..... So they got back to me, tried selling the opportunity a bit more, when junior was found to be not convincing enough, they put me on to the director of the recruitment firm, who tried hard sell on me. He was good at it, if I'd been desperate or disillusioned, might have worked. If recruiting doesn't work out for him, bullying little old ladies into buying more double glazing would be a good career choice. As it is, he got told to sod off, because he didn't have a clue where I was coming from. Recruitment being so lacking in professionalism and honesty still concerns me less than employers still using them. If I was hiring for my business, I wouldn't touch them.

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

It's a learned skill, first thing to overcome is fear of cold calling. Everyone has it, and anyone can conquer it, if needed.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Each to his own, though. I know how the buzzword bingo boys works, so I can play the system. It's worked for me up to press.

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

I don't apply for work through the system though, call me unorthodox but I get to speak/pitch face to face and forget about screening. If they hire like that (buzzword screening), I hang up and look elsewhere. I don't want to work for someone that seeks buzzwords.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

list. Certs are in the edumacation section, on account it would have been a bit empty otherwise. I do use recruiters, or let them use me depending on how you look at it. Buzzword list is mandatory. As you said and I know for definite they word search first. If you don't squeeze the word in there somehow, you'll never hear from them unless they search for the wrong one. I sell myself as generic, all rounder, multi-skilled etc. The only reason they are in there is for HR and the numpties. They believe they are the most important part of being a techie. Personally I think that's complete shite, but I was never clever enough to get a job in HR, so what's my opinion worth?

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Just in case they aren't familiar with Ltrim you see. Mutters, need to improve unit tests. :D

aidemzo_adanac
aidemzo_adanac

If I did I'd just suck in the oil and vinegar and drown myself. Most vegetarians wouldn't have the strength to escape form a salad bowl anyway. While I believe that veggiies are an absolutely essential part of a daily diet, the lack of meat just makes people into weak pansy's who's body can't fight off the simplest common cold. Living on all vegetables is no better than living on all meat, a balance in our diet is imperative. We aren't herbivors. As for puckering skills, I find that showing off my newest knee pads usually gets promotions coming in quickly.

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