IT Employment

What is the real reason Bill Gates wants to lift the annual cap on H-1B visas?

Bill Gates testified before a congressional hearing on March 12, advocating immigration reforms to help fill what he sees as a critical shortfall of skilled scientists and engineers. Is there a shortage, or is there another reason he's pushing for this?

Last week I wrote about the fact that many HR departments are claiming an IT skills shortage (IT skill shortage: Where's the hard evidence?). The claims didn't seem to mesh with the findings of a couple of recent university-sponsored studies.

But now someone else has joined the skills shortage bandwagon: Bill Gates.

Gates, who testified before a congressional hearing on March 12, is advocating lifting the annual cap on H-1B visas.

At a hearing of the House Science and Technology Committee, Gates outlined immigration reforms that he said would help fill "a critical shortfall of skilled scientists and engineers." According to an article on Workforce Management's Web site, Gates:

  • Urged lifting the annual cap on H-1B visas for highly skilled immigrants.
  • Recommended that Congress increase the number of employment-based visas, or green cards, extend the time that foreign students can stay in the U.S. after they complete their degree, eliminate visa limits for individual countries, and make more highly skilled foreign employees permanent residents.

Critics of Gates' efforts suggest that there is no skills shortage in the United States and that Gates is just ignoring unemployed IT pros in the United States because they cost more to hire than the employees he can get through the use of H-1B visas.

To this criticism, Gates replied, "These jobs are going begging. We're not kidding. It's not an issue of raising wages. We're hiring as many people as we can."

What do you think? Is Gates speaking the truth, trying to save money, or just holding the bar too high?

Also check out a recent TechRepublic discussion about H-1B visas in which members talk about issues such as whether the number of H-1B visas made available is sufficient.

About

Toni Bowers is Managing Editor of TechRepublic and is the award-winning blogger of the Career Management blog. She has edited newsletters, books, and web sites pertaining to software, IT career, and IT management issues.

236 comments
Davidly
Davidly

Mr. Gates has been a global player for a very, very long time. He simply wants to maintain access to foreign markets and immigration is just another tool to maintain a monopolist position.

mike
mike

This year, the U.S. will graduate 600,000 STEM majors to compete for 120,000 jobs. Gates won't be satisfied until tech jobs are minimum wage.

palradi602
palradi602

My very very much look for U.S.A/California /Kentucky and more

jimarsul
jimarsul

Bill, is not wholly truthful in his statements. The company I work for originally had a 10% max, a combination of hi-b's and offshore work, in 2002-3. That percentage has grown to 30%. It was originally cost-efficient to hire "b's" and move work offshore, but recently we did an internal study showing relative pay is almost equal and the "b's" and offshore had a 20% higher rework-bug fix rate. Of course, the dinosaur/old school mentality and misguided management of my company was discovered too late and we are on the brink of BK and being bought out by our "big brother." Mr. Gates really does need to look more at home before going outside our borders. @author j

mrmiata7
mrmiata7

Gates is so full of it it is emanating from his ears. Once again it all is about cheap labor and to hell with Americans. Gates has forgotten or doesn't give a damn who is responsible for helping put him where he is and who helped him amass his wealth. Talk about biting the hand that helped feed you. Watching Gates testify before a House Committee owned and controlled by corporate America, the Chinese, Indian and Mexican governments with those wastes of space, tax payer dollars and oxygen elected officials swooning all over Gates like whores on a john was the most disgusting display of sellout politics I have ever seen. There wasn't a single word from any of those sellout congressional jackasses of their concern for Americans losing their homes, jobs, pensions and health care resulting from Bush's insane, inane and absolutely ludicrous free trade policies and globalist agenda. Many Americans including myself are unable to find a job anywhere in the IT field but congress had no problem giving their master Bill gates all the H1B's he desires. I have seen web sites with positions stating only H1B's need apply. Six out of 10 companies requesting unlimited H1B caps are Indian outsourcing firms who then ship the work overseas or bring in even more H1B holders. GAO data found that H1B holders earn 10,000 to 25,000 dollars a year less then American IT pros. Corporate America and rats like Bill Gates have forgotten about the American dream and now are motivated only by greed brought about by an insatiable appetite for an ever increasing bottom line. Those who support the three stooges (Clinton, Obama and McCain) are in for a big disappointment as all three of them have supported a massive increase in H1B, H2a and H2B visas and want to legalize 20 million illegal aliens who violated our immigration laws, sovereignty and stole our identities who will now compete with us for scarce health care, education and other resources while the budget deficit continues to spiral out of control. The American people are being screwed and once again Washington has shown it doesn't give a horse's posterior. Shame on you Bill gates and our so called Congress!!!!

CheMuff317
CheMuff317

There are plenty of qualified Americans out there ready, willing, and able to work in the IT industry. People like Gates just want cheap labor. Hire Americans and maybe there would not be a recession going on right now. We have lost enought It jobs to the overseas market. Why do we have to lose them here in our own country. HIRE AMERICANS IN AMERICA!! I wonder can I go to India and get an IT job?

gcoppedge
gcoppedge

Cheap labor, like previous posts mentioned, is one of the major reasons. The other is DOCILITY. All foreign workers are much more easily controlled than US citizens. "You don't want to cooperate? Visa revoked!" I worked side-by-side with a German guy on an H1-B. When our dept got a terrible new manager, EVERYONE on our 7-member team, except him, quit. The manager was a real poisonous snake, but my poor German friend had to take it to stay in the US. (Ultimately, that firm went bankrupt in 2001.) The use of illegal labor is for exactly the same reasons - a docile and cheap resource. And it benefits the same corporate elites and business owners who don't care to share their prosperity with their fellow countrymen. Sad. American techs desperately need to unionize and lobby the govt to protect their jobs (and ultimately the American economy).

reisen55
reisen55

With outsourcing of information technology shops to Bangalore and poor service all in the name of CHEAPER,FASTER,BETTER ... almost a single word ... and the lie that it helps SHAREHOLDER VALUE because those expensive AMERICAN IT workers are now on the bread lines ..... No American worth sanity would get into IT as a career these days. Outsourcing and Bangalore, langauge problems have destroyed our field. Cheap salary, no health benefits and bad talent all create a fiction that the same job is being done for 1/5 the cost. Villains really are: Computer Sciences Corporation, Affiliated Computer Services, Accenture, GenPact and EDS. Curse them all.

flyboy28
flyboy28

I can believe that Gates would be pro immigration if it saves him $$$. Yeah right Gates, lets end outsourcing and bring the people that have already taken our jobs to the US and give them the education, jobs along with their citizenship.

ugaldeotero
ugaldeotero

I've been reading a lot of non-sense in many of the last posts, and noticed a lot of ignorance from many of you guys. But I've also read some good and reasonable conclusions about this particular topic. Let me share some of my conclusions: 1. First of all, I agree with the fact that many companies take advantage of this "H-1B hiring method". That's true. Many workers who come form another countries are cheaper. But don't forget about one thing... they have more or probably the same IT knowledge than American workers. No one is going to hire some foreign guy if he doesn't show that he's capable of developing or implementing IT solutions. And duh!... all the code is written in English, so...of course they need to know the language!!!!!! 2. Training... I learned how to administrate Business Object's platform paying 400 dollars per semester. Here I need to pay 1000 bucks for one session of 5 hours! The same happened to me for Oracle, Microsoft and Linux... That's the reason why, immigrants know that much! 3. What about execs positions... I give you my head: in every major IT company, there's always a immigrant exec. Did you ever ask you why? I tell you: We live in globalize world, that means that every thing that we build, is going to be used around the world... we need people who know the rest of the world, specially for execs positions. Many Americans think that this is the center of the world, and all they to do is speak English. Well, guess what, how many of you guys can speak more than 3 languages? Immigrant workers need to speak more than 3 languages to be able to get a job outside their countries! On top of that, they had the same skills as an American exec... I'd hire the immigrant. 4. Don't think that you are the only ones suffering here. Of course they salary is lower, and immigrants accept it... but the prices of good and services are the same for everyone. Now ask your self... who is suffering more? Who is no able to save money, because he has to pay rent, basic services, insurance, taxes...? Who is going to suffer a lot more in times of recession? 5. I've always thought that the American people were the most hard worker people on earth... and I'm not mistaken... you wanna beat the immigrants, work harder, harder as they do every day! Conclusion: Don't over estimate foreign guys, they are good in what they're doing... probably better than you. You talk about the damage immigrants do to your economy? Think about the damage you do to theirs...

prplshroud
prplshroud

How can Gates make these claims. Unemployment numbers came out a week or two ago and US unemployment numbers are up for the past month. Can we take care of our own first then look outside when unemployment is at all time lows? I'm tired of hearing about this from him. The tech companies brought the salaries up in the 90's to lure us away to other jobs.

wamorita
wamorita

Gates just wants labor on the cheap. Don't take my word for it. Check with IEEE and ACM about large number of well experience pros going unemployed.

james.evangelos
james.evangelos

I used to work for a small defense contractor in South Florida that was in the process of obtaining a Top Secret clearance for me. I was making 80 k/annually at the time. I saw posted a job for an H1-B renewal notice at 100K for an Indian gentleman that worked there already. The company said "they are in buisiness to save lives". Well, since then, I found out that they were just in business to line the pockets of their foreign friends. There is such hypocracy escpecially when one considers jobs involving "National Security". I am not working there any more.

lkeppel
lkeppel

My thoughts on this issue are definitely NOT going to be popular, but Oh well... Skilled foreign labor does nothing but add to our economic base. The skills and availability of our labor force coupled with the technology needs of our marketplace, are never going to be in sync. If we exclude these foreign workers, the marketplace is simply going to go to where the workers are located. So, instead of 20% of your coworkers being Australian or Indian or whatever, 80% of the jobs get outsourced overseas. As a newer IT professional--less than 7 years since graduating--I came into this the IT world with a broad base of experience in other fields, chief amongst them 27 years experience in the military. Luckily, I have worked with many people from many nations. While I don't always think they are as skilled as their education would suggest, their varying approaches to IT has taught me much. Personally, I am not afraid to compete with people who are not born in this country. I like an open--but fair--marketplace.

ravi.terence.rajah
ravi.terence.rajah

I know most of what I am about to say is probably not welcome, but since this is an open discussion, I'll say it, I happen to be a foreign student, which means, I pay money $ to go to school here, which goes into your economy, I pay taxes on this money to the IRS. The money that I pay to the school is coming from abroad, someone said that foreign students should not be allowed, well that would be a huge mistake in my opinion because we actually have an impact on the economy, colleges are in the "business" of providing an education. America is the land of immigrants so I doubt you can change that, at some point of time someone in your family was allowed to immigrate here so don't forget that. BEFORE you start cursing me out, I'd like to add, that I fully agree with what most of you have said with regards to the reasons as to why Bill Gates is saying what he is saying, the main reason is we come from 3rd world countries and for us $10 an hour is a lot of money, so yes we are being exploited at your expense, I am trying to say or ask you to please understand that we aren't the bad people, no one wants to be exploited, but sadly this world runs on one thing and that is "money". I myself have asked myself this question how would I feel if I was in most of your places and I would probably be angry at the foreign student. This whole topic is quite intriguing and confusing the one thing I am sure about is the only people really gaining out of this is Big Corporations.

Ed Woychowsky
Ed Woychowsky

As developers we've been on the defensive for years, now is the time to strike back. Let's start a write-in campaign for all schools, government offices and businesses to switch from Microsoft Office to the open source Open Office. Not only will it save tax dollars, it will also reduce the need for additional developers at Microsoft. Let's put Gates on the defensive.

Altotus
Altotus

It all about money and Microsoft.

RayneToday
RayneToday

Sure, money is at the root of this quest. But there's more assets in play here than money; one needs to think like the Borg for a second to see this is true. If MSFT could hire more H-1B's, what would happen? -- more foreign programmers would concentrate on learning programming appropriate to MSFT's products, in an effort to become suitable candidates; -- time spent on such efforts cuts into the amount of time these same programmers can write open source programs on their own time; -- this same resource pool learns less about programming suitable for other competitive products; -- these same resources become tied up when training or hired at MSFT, unavailable to other employers; -- these same H-1B's may become evangelists for MSFT products when they interact with folks in their home country. There's a lot of value here for MSFT in tying up global programming and development resources; it simply cuts into their competitors' opportunities while providing less expensive labor, even if the labor is less productive. That should have been the tip to you folks that this wasn't about profitability alone; why would a company expend serious money on recruiting less productive resources? Because the value isn't in the labor itself, it's in tying up the pawns on the chess board so that the opposition can't break through and wreak more havoc on MSFT's side of the board.

carrilion
carrilion

Tech jobs will all be exempt positions to avoid paying over-time and the need for paid lunch breaks.

previso
previso

So we all know it was a CON. Then what? Still believe Uncle Sam looks out for us? At the founding, only landowners had a say. Today, it takes a billion. Do you have one? I sure as hell don't. Democracy doesn't mean you and me. It means Bill and Warren.

OldRusty
OldRusty

I started my IT career during the days of the 80 column punch cards. Rather than move up the management food chain, I chose to remain a "hands-on" application developer and eventually made it to the top of the class in my field and was hired by a high-end consulting company. It was in the mid 90's when I began noticing an influx of H1B developers. The first group that I came into contact with were mostly from Russia and Eastern Europe. Then it was an increasing number of groups originating out of India and Pakistan. While most of the H1B's were competent developers, their documentation skills and their ability to look beyond the scope of the project left a lot to be desired to say the least. The one big advantage that they did have over me, however, was their willingness to accept a salary that was less than half of what I had been currently earning. With billing rates plummeting, it became extremely difficult for my former employer to compete and as a result they were forced to begin downsizing the staff, reduce the physical size of their head quarters and finally, throw in the towel as a consulting entity. Today I no longer work in IT, nor do many of my former co-workers. Be it the consequences of a declining economy, the onslaught of the H1B's, changing technologies or all of the above, the end result was the loss of IT careers that took decades to develop. Speaking with a mouthful of sour grapes, in my opinion, the H1B quota should be set at ZERO.

skyabhinav
skyabhinav

Yes you can come to india and get a I.T job there is a lot of demand for Expat I.T guys, here in India. Not only that you will also get Good accomodation and cheap domistic help here in India so ya you are welcome in India

carrie
carrie

...go to India to work. But who the hell wants to live there? And why should we have to emigrate to work? ACK!

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Don't call it a union though. They'll just look for whoever is shaping up to be Hoffa with a keyboard. You don't want to protect your job, you want the H1B quota dropped / tightening up. It might be helping Bill and mates out, it's doing crap for you or your economy though, also long term it's an outright disaster. Don't ask the government to do this, f'ing tell then, Bill's got one vote, even with this crap going on your average IT blokes got to go to a million or so. Politicians don't know sh1t about IT, but they can count. Get the foreign students onside as well, businesses who can't get H1Bs who are being badly undercut by those who can, education, sheesh even welfare. Call it an IT union, you make lots of enemies, what you need is allies.

KarrasB
KarrasB

This post is a perfect example of the intelligence level in this Forum. It is simply an honor to view. And need I say this?...almost every one of these smart, educated, brilliant technicians and computer specialists is an American. Why on earth would we ever need to hire "outside labor." It is ridiculous.

yonman
yonman

By the amount of opinions generated, I think that you have touched on an excellent topic. This is the hallmark of a keen author and my thanks to their journalism abilities!

ben@channells
ben@channells

since 2002 approx 50,000 have come to the UK most from India, many on Government project. Most organised by EDS, all have suffered major global melt down and huge scale data loss. If you have not seen them or read about them. Even the UK Foreign Office Visa program was done by an India firm, shortly after go live the systems crashed sql200 on windows 2000 both un patched. You did not need to do a SQL injection to steal the database as the the database was Public available HTML. On the government project I am on 2/3rd have returned to India as they can earn more money in India and lower cost of living than the UK

jpachoulli
jpachoulli

is the same for everyone true. However, when the market is saturated in your own area with cheap labor to the point where you can't even get a job. I'm sorry, if you may have a hard time saving. I'm having a hard time eating.

jpachoulli
jpachoulli

is the same for everyone true. However, when the market is saturated in your own area with cheap labor to the point where you can't even get a job. I'm sorry, if you may have a hard time saving. But I'm having a hard time eating.

jpachoulli
jpachoulli

is the same for everyone true. However, when the market is saturated in your own area with cheap labor to the point where you can't even get a job. I'm sorry, but you may have a hard time saving. But I'm having a hard time eating.

hlhowell
hlhowell

What damage have we done? Be specific. After all, you are here with a job that you sought directly. I know people here on H1B visa's who are good and competant. I also know some who fit the derogatory profiles stated here. And I have traveled quite a bit, so please be very specific, which countries, what industries, what effects that America has damaged and how. And please remember that America is a country, not a corporation, and that every country has its own laws and government. I really do want to know, and I cannot if no one tells me specifics. Otherwise all I have is generalities and anyone can spout those. Regards, Les H

Locrian_Lyric
Locrian_Lyric

A bunch of yahoos who couldn't find their own backsides with a hunting dog and a ouija board.

anthony.mcclay
anthony.mcclay

The company I work for has hired one of the most well known IT Executives for cutting jobs and outsourcing. Of course we now have Hundreds of India workers replacing American workers, under the guise of "Work Force Optimization Processes". Staright out firing the American workers has new Overseas workers come by the 10's everyday. At least the head of my company's IT Department is not lying to me. 6 to 10 Indian workers is what my salary cost him on average. And he doesn't suggest anyone tell their kids to stay in computer relates fields of study, because it's just cheaper to get the talent overseas. Globalization has taken over IT. Alot of very talented people I know in the IT world in my area are starting to prepare for life outside of IT. I simply don't have that philosophy. Tony

previso
previso

An almost unknown trait of Mr. Gates is his great heart. He wants more foreign techs here so that he can provide them with employment. Since we already have more than we need, he's figured "let's give someone else a slice of pie". Will that keep the bakery at home? Currently, the Chinese ate my cheese. I'm glad there's one less starving person out there, even if I can no longer afford to send my kids to college. Ravi, this is your future. By the time you figure that out, you won't have enough saved for your kids and your Alzheimer's medication.

Locrian_Lyric
Locrian_Lyric

Nobody has railed against foreign students. Your money is as good as anyone elses. If you want to be a total failure, keep nursing that grudge.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

That's money into an economy. That's not importing 'talent' but exporting education. Nor have I seen anyone blame you guys for wanting to end up as US citizens, nor for wanting to earn more corn than you could at home. In an interesting side note, I worked abroad on a program that addressed the skills shortage in Holland. To get me across there the government cut my taxes by 20% and the employers paid me whatever the market would bear. Perhaps someone should suggest this scheme as an alternative to Bill. :D

jpachoulli
jpachoulli

I like the Borg analogy. Makes sense.

Jeff Dickey
Jeff Dickey

common sense (the most uncommon substance in the omniverse). H1B, L1 and related visas should be tied to GENUINE shortages of skilled professionals... most techies don't know that the H1 program is also used to bring in nurses and such... when was the last time you met an American girl who wanted to go into nursing? "Shortage remediation" visas like H1B and L1 should be granted if and only if a relevant professional group (such as ACM or IEEE for techies) concurs that a genuine shortage exists: i.e., that the number of available jobs exceeds the available qualified labor pool, REGARDLESS OF PAY RATE. We need to stop this race-to-the-bottom mentality that's set in. By subsidizing the elimination of American jobs, it's not only bad labor policy (for all the obvious reasons), but bad economic policy as well (by seriously distorting and damaging the free market for labor and employment). It's also bad from a business point of view; how many times has vital technology and information "leaked" into competing companies (around the world) after outsourcing providers were less than careful with it? Over the last five years, I've seen dozens of media reports of that sort of thing. Also, quite frankly, after working with or in outsourcing organizations for the last 20 years or so, I've never seen a major project that hasn't had critical failures caused by communication/cultural/ethical mismatches between client and provider. It's been a very common experience that if one specifies the work to be done in such exacting detail that nobody could POSSIBLY misinterpret anything, you've already done the hard/expensive part of the work yourself - might as well have the rest done in-house where you can maintain close control over the situation. Of course, if you have reasonably competent people in-house, you won't need to use such baby steps to begin with. And isn't getting a knock-the-customer's-socks-off implementation better than a rough bit of Rube Goldberg instability -- even at twice the hourly rate? India won't be inexpensive forever, you know. Especially if they do the work to make sure the work isn't cheap anymore... think Japan in the '50s compared to now. Bring the jobs home and get them done better!

JohnMcGrew
JohnMcGrew

...and have loved it. Usually, they are representing US companies outsourcing work there. A cab ride anywhere costs a quarter, and even on a middle-class income you can afford multiple servants. There are excellent and affordable schools for those with children, and your dollar goes a very long way.

Jeff Dickey
Jeff Dickey

Not to India; I've visited there several times, but even if I didn't mind to settle/live/start-and-raise a family in Fourth World conditions, just the ethically slimy feeling of "contributing" to the devastation being visited on the American IT industry by robber barons like BillG and Tata was too much to stomach. So I came to Singapore. Decent food, quality services, largely English-speaking, largely open to anyone who wants to work hard and get ahead. Very little of the under-the-table BS that I've seen in other places. A guy could do a lot worse - like, oh, say, Bangalore.

ben@channells
ben@channells

See http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104427/ directed ans staring Danny DeVito plus Jack Nicholson "He didn't want law. He wanted justice" its part or your American Heritage. You don't have to call it a union try 'Brother hood' it's been used for 100's of years. PS Danny DeVito would NOT been where he is today with out the US Unions. The mafia or the democrates may NOT be friends but you may find freinds in the Free Mason. Some time you need to defend your freedom to live and work. if you are a Democrate or Republican, your VOTE is COMMING soon, make them work real hard for your votes!!!!

ugaldeotero
ugaldeotero

Well... first of all, I want to make clear that I'm not an anti-America guy, ok? I have nothing against American or its people. But you have to be honest with your self, and think of all the wrong policies this and other governments have run through the years. I'm gonna mentioned two examples out of many I can come out with right now: 1. Military and paramilitary activities against the government of Nicaragua (Nicaragua vs. USA). That was a case taken to the International Court of Justice in which the government of Nicaragua accused the USA of committing violations to the international law statements when the US support the armed opposition with their war against the already mentioned government and by mining all the country's ports. The International Court ruled in favor of Nicaragua, but USA didn't respect the decision. By 1989 the economic cost caused by the civil war in Nicaragua is calculated in 17 billion dollars!!!!!! 38.000 people died! 2. The US president, George W. Bush is not going to follow the Kyoto treaty. For those who didn't know this treaty, 141 countries from all over the world (!) signed the treaty that proposed the reduction of emissions that favor global warming. This reduction have to reach 5,2%, between 2008 and 2012, compared with the one in 1990. You wanna know why US doesn't want to honor the treaty? Fleischer said that the treaty is against US economic interests!!!!!!!!!! I don't wanna take this conversation to another level... we were discussing immigration and H1 visas... let's stay with that subject. But please, don't blame the immigrants for all your problems... You also caused a lot of trouble and many countries... you have a big influence in the world, what ever you do, is going to have a reaction in other countries... (you want to confirm the info. I gave you... google it)

Locrian_Lyric
Locrian_Lyric

Gone from starving to prosperous in a generation thanks to American corporations.

hlhowell
hlhowell

I did notice that you mentioned other governments, and that says something. Governments are self fulfilling and we all know that of all governments. At least we do make some changes once in a while without burning down the house ;-) But the history of Nicaragua is filled with internal strife and corruption. From without or within, it is difficult to filter the good guys from the bad guys. Most of the rhetoric around the US errors deal with things from the 1920's, which was a long time ago and probably not too germane to governments or people today other than to help pick a scape goat. Here is the history link I think sums up the progress pretty well. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107839.html Note that in recent years many refugees from Nicaragua have sought and received asylum in the US. Note also that the various government folks there have embezzled and cheated their own people. We help people, all kinds of people, but we cannot be held responsible for bad choices made by those same people. After a government is working in a country, it is up to that country to make it into something that benefits the people or benefits the rulers. Often these rulers get in place and discover they are not up to the task and that the people who supported them don't really want to run a government. Every leader of every country, now and in the past has had great temptations, great responsibilities and great expectations thrust upon them. Few have made the cut to greatness, many have been fair leaders and a few have been tyrants, and several have started one way and ended another through personal processes that we cannot even guess at. Governments rise and fall, They seem best when they manage well, do little to hurt the common people, and minimize taxation. If they violate one of these principals, they become "bad" If they violate two or more, they eventually lead to the failure of the system. If we could all have perfect governments it would still fail, because none of us is perfect people. You love your country and I love mine. I hope the Nicraguan people who read this are not offended, because I mean them no offense, and I see them just as I see my own neighbors and friends, people just trying to get by today, feed their families, live a good life and loving their kids. Regards, Les H

JohnMcGrew
JohnMcGrew

We know that 10,000 years ago near the end of the previous ice age, mean sea level was roughly 300 feet lower than it is today. Al Gore and the "warm-mongers" have been trying to scare us into believing that SUV are going to cause the sea level to rise by 4 to 35 inches by the end of this century. Never mind that most of this rise took place 9,850 before the industrial revolution. Let's do some math that even graduates of the most mediocre of educational insitutions should be able to do: 300 feet / 10,000 years = .03 feet / year x 100 years = 3 feet = 36 inches! Hey, we aren't even going to make the trend!

JohnMcGrew
JohnMcGrew

...Kyoto was designed specifically as a economoic tool to be used against the US. And just as well we didn't, since most of the nations that did sign have not only reduced their CO2 emissions, but have massively increased them. And nice try about trying to pin this on Bush. Clinton never forwarded Kyoto to be ratified by the Senate, basically making him the first president not to sign. Basically by trying to make that stick, you've proven the biggest problem with Kyoto; that it's more about leftist politics than the environment.

hlhowell
hlhowell

But as to Global Warming, scientists are divided. Politically it is a "hot potatoe", but I do know the figures for sea level rise are contrived. How you may ask do I know. Well, I was in the Navy for 20 years, stationed overseas for much of that time, visiting in ports from Alaska to Acapulco and from LA to Japan and Africa, including Australia, New Guinea, and lots of islands, even residing on Guam for 5 years. So take a look at satellite photos of Bikini Atoll. Much of it is only about 10' above sea level and has been so from time known to the present. If sea levels were rising, wouldn't that small crescent reflect those changes? Look at the mean high level mark in the Seychelles. It is still visible on the highest tidal days. It was put there sometime in the 1800's. Go to any port you know, and check their tidal charts for the last 150 years. Finally, if all the ice in the North pole melted, the sealevel would not change. At all! The north pole has water under it. That is why the submarines of the US and Russia were able to surface there. There are on line photos of both countries subs there. And finally, several of the scientists quoted by Al Gore wrote a letter reprimanding him for his distortion of their views. 30 years ago, there was talk of a global Ice Age. That never came to pass either. I'll look up more on Nicaragua, but Civil Wars exist all over the world. We had one, and France helped us overthrow our own shackles. If you were English at the time, the view would have been different. Finally, the US gets blamed for lots of things. But, and it is a big but, which country would you turn to if you needed help? Which of the worlds countries will actually take a risk to help someone else? When troops were needed at the Berlin wall, who provided them? When a nation needs support in a catastrophe, which country provides hundreds of milliions in aid, tons of food, clothes, and other necessities, and does their best to get them there quickly? We are not without faults, or blemishes, but we are who we are, and everyone knows what that really is, even when they deny it. regards, Les H