IT Employment

Would you be a whistleblower?

The Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act introduces the Whistleblower Protection Program. Read about it here.

I heard a rumor the other day that the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, which was signed into law on July 21, 2010, contains information about a little something called the Whistleblower Protection Program.

Because I'm a nice person, I decided to peruse the text of this Act and find out just what was going on so I could pass the information on to you. Several hours and many traumatized brain cells later, I located the description. (I appreciate the thoroughness of Senator Dodd and Congressman Frank, but holy cow.)

Although the specific parameters are still being studied, the gist of the deal is this: The SEC is trying to make it easier (through financial motivation) for employees in the financial sector to report evidence of malfeasance and fraud in their companies.

Committee members are still deciding on what level of reward will be best. They want to entice whistleblowers but they don't want the reward to be so high that they encourage illegitimate claims. The standard of evidence of each claim is going to be very high as well and must match the violation of specific federal laws. In other words, don't expect to cash in big because you saw your boss take a stapler home for his personal use.

I wonder if the architects of the new law took into consideration what effect whistleblowing has on a person's future earning potential when deciding the amount of reward. Not that you'd have to put whistleblowing on your resume, right after "in-depth knowledge of Microsoft Exchange," but if the company is big enough, your name could hit the media, ala Jeffrey Wigand, and kind of put a damper on your future employment.

So let's take an informal poll and see where you guys stand on the issue of whistleblowing:

About

Toni Bowers is Managing Editor of TechRepublic and is the award-winning blogger of the Career Management blog. She has edited newsletters, books, and web sites pertaining to software, IT career, and IT management issues.

291 comments
steven.footy02
steven.footy02

This will work both ways, If you talk, you get the reward and will end up fired in some later time. IF you dont, your boss will keep on gaining and doing what he is doing. You better join him if you can, cause if you end up chaning your job, you will end up finding a new boss doing the same thing in a his own way. As one said; life is a jungle out there, so you have to find the best way to survive.

TonytheTiger
TonytheTiger

"What if it were discovered that I knew and didn't say anything?" If I didn't like that answer, I'd tell.

The Maverick Phantom Wanderer (formerly Macoza, No
The Maverick Phantom Wanderer (formerly Macoza, No

No amount of money could make me report something that amounts to a (relatively speaking) minor violation of law and/or ethics. Major violations of law and/or ethics will be reported after proper measures have been done to ensure my continued well-being.

g-man_863
g-man_863

This is a follow up to my "The Crimestoppers anonymity approach?" post a few days ago. First, find a new job first. Based on the posts so far, your current employer will find a way to get rid of you if you're still employed when you snitch. Most states legally treat employment as "at will", meaning either you or the employer can terminate the relationship at any time. Even if the reason for getting canned is whistle blowing, race or other prohibited reasons, the employer will try to get around this by calling it a "layoff" or fabricating a story (theft, poor performance, etc.) on why you were fired "for cause". If you have a contract with a non-compete agreement, talk to a lawyer first: The non-compete may be unenforcable if the employer is forcing you to participate in illegal activities. Second, gather evidence of the illegal activities. If you're unsure of how far you can go on this without facing a lawsuit or termination, talk to a lawyer first. Call your local lawyer referral service - you may find an attorney who will advise you for free since you're reporting illegal activity and/or handle the reward negoiations on a contingency basis. Depending on the attorney's advice, save incrimating documents and e-mails on a personal flash drive. You may also be able to record conversations secretly using a hidden digital voice recorder. When I dropped dime on Federal Law violations many years ago, I had several pieces of written evidence that peaked the Fed's attention immediately. Finally, if you're in the "No Snitching" camp, ask yourself: What is the worst thing that can happen if I DON'T report this? If the answer involves someone being injured, killed (BP Oil Rig, PG&E San Bruno Gas Explosion) or losing their life savings (Enron, Bernie Madoff, etc.), not reporting it makes you as ethically guilty as those committing the violations.

jck
jck

I've reported bosses, co-workers, etc., for things like constant use of company vehicles for personal travel and business, using company accounts to buy personal items and claiming they were "business" related, etc. Unless the "powers that be" want to get rid of someone or getting rid of them won't hurt the operation, you probably won't see any action taken other than a slap on the wrists. I've only seen a case of a person being terminated for something I turned in, and the rumor was that person was targeted by management anyway. So if I saw fraud in my workplace and the federal government said "We'll pay you $200,000 to testify", I'd grab that up in a minute so long as I didn't have to appear in court 10 times in the next 10 years. $20k a year is not enough, and no whistleblower law will protect anyone from future employers with concerns hearing that you blew whistles.

thegreenwizard1
thegreenwizard1

That's the reason, the economy is so bad. People who know that it was fishy never spoke, and just cared for their own interest and big GREED. In other word, people who know something is wrong and don't say anything.... are as guilty that the one who do the wrong. Actually you have enough way to put the information on the web without being in arm. Aren't you working with IT?

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I am a STRONG believer in working for a company that plays fair ball. Its quite simple, if you do not play fair, don't expect your employees to either. If I saw my neighbour's face on America's Most wanted, I would make the call. Money is not my motivator at all, never has been even when choosing an employer, but the ability to conduct business in an upstanding fashion is the absolute most important factor for me. I am in sales management/business and brand development, my name is EXTREMELY recognizable with clients. I cannot leave one company and go to another without people knowing me and remembering me. It is a HUGE advantage because my customers follow me when I move, no matter what the industry or product, if they use it they'll start buying from me and ditch their former supplier of 20 years in a heartbeat. The reason being, I am honest, I work hard for them, support them like no other and build strong relationships while representing the best product lines and companies in the process. Okay so I am great, but I know that already...ahem. Point is, if a company ruins MY reputation as a sales rep, it will follow me forever even when it's the company's fault. My customer's know that I won't work for someone that isn't the top at their game and that's why they choose me, well plus I am really hot and sexy too, riiiiiiight. That said, if the company screws my clients, they screw me and I take that personally. Employers know that I go to bat for the clients before the company, if I feel the client is right. If a company does anything that jeopardizes their integrity, and in turn my own integrity, I will call foul and be first in line to blow the whistle and see justice is served. I can easily find another job, I can't fin another reputation and don't want to have to grovel to retail my clients. Screw with me or my clients and I will sink your battleship. EDIT: This is based on dealing with the correct channels to see that a company toes the line, NOT ratting them out to the government for reward. I would contact the regulators in some respects, such as the BBB or Employment Standards but that' about it.

JamesRL
JamesRL

If you are going to blow the whistle, you'd better be very sure you are correct. Rumour doesn't cut it, you have to have facts. As for loyalty to the company, I've got a perspective on that. The "company" isn't just management, its also the employees and shareholders. If someone is stealing from the company, its in the best interests of the company that it stop. Better a little hit now than a big hit a couple of years down the road. My company actually requires us to snitch on software licensing issues, both internally, and with our customers. We do give people time to rectify the situation but it isn't long, and we have brought the hammer down more than once. It has cost us some customers, but being as we are a software company, we have to think if they will steal from MS, they will steal from us. There is a difference between malefeasance and correcting an error or an oversight. For the latter you need to be flexible and allow time for remediation. I recall the case at a previous employer where a new VP had changed company policy to include a vendor that was his previous employer, and exclude the current supported vendor we worked at for years. Many of us suspected something was up, but it would have been impossible to prove the decision wasn't made on what the VP thought was sound technical or business reasons. One of the staff took it upon himself to inform the Ethics VP through a confidential hotline, then sent an email to our IT group (hundreds of people) repeating the same allegation. Amazingly, he wasn't fired, but he changed nothing, because all he had was an accusation, not proof. That employer, a huge multinational, eventually went under, and if it wasn't the cause, a big accounting scandal was at least a good part of the reason why. I can't help thinking that someone in the accounting department knew, and if they had blown the whistle early enough, the company might have survived and all these ex -employees might still have their pensions.

ransom01
ransom01

C'mon, get real ! Everybody wants to appear honest. Isn't that what bosses hire us for? But the reality is that you fall into line with the rest of the "team", even if they play dirty, and you hit on anyone who is threatening your living. It's called "hypocrisy".

willy_uk
willy_uk

Mainly... why is it OK to make people who did nothing wrong (the taxpayer, because I can't see who else will be coughing up the reward) pay to compensate for the wrongdoing of an organisation they have nothing to do with? This make about as much sense as getting taxpayers to pay the fines of other criminals, speeding tickets and anything else. Statism gone wrong. The government doesn't have the answer to any of these problems. This is a social and corporate issue. The ISO example given above is a prime example. No amount of whistleblower compensation will help if the organisations in place do nothing when presented the evidence of false certification?

llee
llee

"Because there is good and there is evil, and evil must be punished. Even in the face of Armageddon I shall not compromise in this." --Rorschach, "The Watchmen" I think it's a bit wrong that this poll only has the two black & white answer choices of "yes" & "no", with the third answer ("Yes, but only if there was substantial compensation") simply another black and white choice with a bit of a selfish tinge to it (as if there were no other good reasons to do the right thing besides "substantial compensation"). As evidenced in the numerous comments above, there appear to be a lot of "maybes". Most people would whistleblow if "lives were in danger", for instance, or would do so if they could do it anonymously without fear of reprisal. Some felt that company loyalty and not "being a snitch" is more important; which I personally found kind of odd, cause I would think most persons would rather be true to their conscience and have a sense of integrity as opposed to having a blind loyalty to a faceless corporation that doesn't really care that much about them anyway (indeed, most companies care more about their "bottom line" than any one particular employee's loyalty, & would just as soon lay you off because it's "business, nothing personal", rather than considering how "loyal" you are...but I digress). Also, depending on the industry where one is being asked to whistleblow, some might actually have to worry about more than simply the loss of their job & future difficulties in finding employment; for instance, Jeffrey Wigand claims he was subsequently harassed and received anonymous death threats after he blew the whistle on the tobacco industry. Worrying about not being able to put food on the table is one thing, but having to look over your shoulder constantly, or worry about your loved ones being hurt because of your whistleblowing actions, that's something totally different. So there are a lot of variables to consider. What situation are we being asked to whistleblow in? How much evidence is there, and will it stand in court? Are there higher authorities or agencies that will actually do something after the whistle has been blown, or is it more likely that nothing will be done about it anyway? Can the whistleblowing be done anonymously? What are the possible dangers/repercussions besides being fired? Are lives in danger, or could millions of people lose their lifes' savings, if one does not whistleblow? Lots of different variables, and there's a lot of degrees to each as well. Thus, in general, I would say "yes", I would whistleblow; and not for compensation, but because it is usually the right thing to do. Hence the Rorschach quote. :-)

darije.djokic
darije.djokic

... is quite simple: those that know and do not take action against agree - meaning that if we talk about criminal activity a no-action-knower is essentially a passive accomplice - a criminal on its own. And no excuse like turning jobless can justify it, only beforehand threat of physical elimination might. Hence the witness protection act and similar programs including this one. So consider the following: if You do not wistleblow, somebody else does and the prosecutor find out You knew and kept silence, You go to jail almost the same as the active perpetuators. That would enhance ethical business behaviour somewhat, methinks. And would work in all aspects of society too - ?it is none of my concern? is a bad excuse for being a lousy citizen; having a honest and functional society has a cost for everybody and it is less than going on with a dysfunctional one.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

Whatever the consequences. None of those other em effs have to live with me, but I do. As somebody else already posted, without integrity, nothing else matters.

goffd
goffd

Yes and I would not take payment for it and if it would compromise me getting a job in another company that would NOT be a company I would want to work for. Remember the only thing required for evil to flourish is for good men (and women) to do nothing.

wlportwashington
wlportwashington

Whistle Blower might sound good on the outside, but you stand a real chance of losing your job. Oh not right away, but down the road in a few months is a pink slip waiting for you. Why? "You were heard telling the boss a few choice four letter words, so you had to be let go." Don't kid yourself, it happened to someone I know and there is not a thing that can be done about it.

michaelnelson
michaelnelson

When do Chris Dodd and Barney Frank get the whistle blown on them?? "Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act", brought to you by the same crooks that created the housing crisis! Isn't that the fox guarding the hen house?

g-man_863
g-man_863

Many years ago I blew the whistle on major Federal Law violations the month after I voluntarily left the offending company in favor of a new job in a new city. Although the investigator at the Federal Agency I was talking with was understanding and professional, the response from the former employer was beyond belief. In addition to stating I had violated the law alone and without their knowledge (given the violations, this would have been impossible), the CEO slandered me on the record by directly stating I had taken bribes from clients and had homosexual relations with co-workers in the office during working hours! It was only after a rumor surfaced that two other former employees might come forward to back up my accusations that the owner quietly settled with the Feds. The moral: While publicly outing illegal practices is both moral and justified, it opens Pandora's Box for the accuser: Slander, trouble finding a new job and reverse accusations, much like telling a rape victim that "she was asking for it" based on how she was dressed. If the Feds want better response in a snitch program they should follow the layout of Crimestoppers: If you file a report you can remain anonymous. Crimestoppers uses a blind ID system allowing you to claim the reward without putting your name on the public record. If the sh*t hits the fan to the point the whistleblower has to come out of the closet and testify, the Feds should disclose the minimum amount of reward money the snitch will receive. This will allow him/her to weigh the options of if it's worth getting dragged through the mud to expose the issues.

mikifinaz1
mikifinaz1

There are basically two ways to blow the whistle. One, you throw yourself on your sword for the good of all. An attractive option for some personalities. The other is to do it anonymously. Gather all the best information (pictures, audio, tape, documents etc.) and make untraceable copies. Then send the copies to various authorities. I know this is hard with the state of our big brother society and the state of forensics but it is doable. Now if your motives are more murky, you are on your own since no one likes a snitch even an ethical one and once you get associated with this type of activity you will be crucified. Very few get vindicated and fewer end up "whole" at the end of the process.

mchelvan
mchelvan

I am an Associate member of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners (no certificate yet!) and our monthly magazine just had an article on whistleblowers. The best recommendation was to consult an attorney before blowing the whistle.

TechRepublic
TechRepublic

First I would give the company the opportunity to clean itself up. Second if company refused I would then blow the whistle but it would have to be a significant problem and definately intentional. A reward would just create another problem for all of society by providing incentive to possibly get people or companies in to trouble.

337
337

Tough Call depends on the circumstances. Eg if it's illegal or if safety related YES! Sorry if i doubled up with others but to many corners get cut and it often puts people in jeopardy.

rfolden
rfolden

... if I knew it was having some effect on my job and I didn't really want to keep working at [wherever] anyways. An example would be if a boss wanted me to do something CLEARLY illegal in order to achieve XXXX. If I suspect any shenanigans in an assignment, my general rule is to ask for whatever they are requesting me to do in writing so I have CMA covered.

dryflies
dryflies

if there is some piddly little thing like parking in the wrong spot, that's snitching. but malfeasance or operating unfairly. it is your responsibility to do what is right. I think compensation will just bring out the snitches, looking for a way to line their pockets but protection from retaliation should be absolute. That said, he who is without sin should cast the first stone so if you are yourself guilty of malfeasance, whistle blower protections should not cover it.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

What if it was discovered that I didn't know and should have? One way makes you look like a criminal and the other side makes you look Stupid. ;) Or again what if it was discovered that I knew and I wasn't in a position that I should have known? That's probably even worse of someone in IT which is a [b]Support[/b] role as it means that you went looking to anyone else no matter how you found out. :D Col

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

There are many opinions as to what constitutes a "minor" offense and a "major' one. Just consider: despite popular opinion, a great deal of thought and research goes into writing laws and regulations. What on the surface might appear to be of little consequence can have serious repercussions. A 'rolling stop' may not seem worthy of a summons, but it can result in a major accident or even death. The purpose of a traffic stop for that offense isn't to add to the city's coffers or even to aggravate the citizens, but potentially to save lives. Somebody on Deepwater Horizon thought that disabling the alarm system would simply enable the crew to be more productive. It was a minor detail. But see what happened.

santeewelding
santeewelding

We call that, finding your dead ass in the desert.

TonytheTiger
TonytheTiger

whistle blowing is for... I think it's more for "My company is dumping hazardous waste in the river" type things.

santeewelding
santeewelding

May congeal only with age; and imposing size, too, in your case. The young, smaller ones in particular, they are vulnerable to wolves. I know I was. Older, now, I sleep without a care.

Zwort
Zwort

Give them a chance and you are probably in delta sierra, a sacrificial lamb.

rafezetter
rafezetter

what you said basically implies that if you wanted to keep working there, assuming because it's well paid, you would do something illegal. If only your conscience could talk.. "Hey that's a nice car there buddy" "thanks, I bought it last month with the kickback I got for looking the other way when a plane crashed killing 300 people because I had lied about the quality of the fuel injectors and the engine blew up"

pdm_pdq
pdm_pdq

I worked for an ISO/IEC 17025 accredited calibration company and was let go because I took notes on their activities. They do in house biomedical calibration and repair in almost every continental state and limited aviation equipment calibration in a few states. I overheard a conversation between the shop foreman and an ex-employee one day and I took a few notes. The ex-employee (who now has his own business at the local ?major airport?) asked him to calibrate some equipment and fudge the dates. Well another employee, who I thought was my friend, told the owner about my notes. The next day I was fired. My friend said they had found my notes, which was a lie because I took them with me that night. Any way, come the next morning I was gone, no questions asked. What?s worse is that when I started working there, I marked a piece of equipment "out of tolerance" (from our biggest customer with hospitals in almost every state) and I was quickly told to never-ever mark a piece of equipment "out of tolerance? from those people because it would cause all kinds of hassles and paper work etc... Then they wouldn?t like us no more. WTF... isn?t that the reason for ISO certs and calibration???? It supposed to make people do paper work so that they don?t do the same furb again...right? Well during the next year of my employment and the many hundreds of pieces of equipment calibrated, I never made that mistake again. None of that companies stuff was ever out of spec. due to my calculations nor anyone else that worked there. What really sucks is that I tried calling anyone and everyone; the state, the feds, attorneys, ISO, and anyone else that listen. I called the stated capital, EEOC, and some of their competitors. Everyone agreed that, "yes it?s a problem" and ?glad I am not on that plane or in that hospital? but no one knew anyone that I could call who would give a damn. So there you have it. Any ideas?

rafezetter
rafezetter

no immunity is a tricky line, I can imagine a lot of the wrong doing only comes to light higher up the chain as Stovies posted about his personal ocurrences, and sometimes one could be linked however indirectly. I think to get whistleblowers for SERIOUS things would require immunity otherwise they won't.

TonytheTiger
TonytheTiger

[i]What if it was discovered that I didn't know and should have?[/i] you probably wouldn't think to ask :) [i]Or again what if it was discovered that I knew and I wasn't in a position that I should have known?[/i] That's what usually happens when you tell... The messenger is attacked. "What were you doing looking?", "Why weren't you instead doing your own job?", etc.

rfolden
rfolden

Your argument has no merit. There are individual circumstances to be weighed for every decision in life. It has nothing to do with being "well paid" and everything to do with putting food on the table for me and mine. If I decide to put my wife and kids on the street because I don't like the way my corporation manufactures fuel injectors (something I doubt I'd have intimate experience with), I'll let you know.

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

Comes legal action all the defendants are going to try for immunity by offering cooperation and their testimony, or by naming names of alleged co-conspirators. Deal-making. Now they might be out on bond. Grinning at each other. Deal with it. The more they pull together the easier they'll be to shoot!

rfolden
rfolden

...we had a "loser pays" legal system. About the only folks who gain financially for ANYTHING over here are lawyers.

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

And I surely don't want to try. I have enough trouble bringing my camera into focus. It's all a matter of scale, isn't it? My problem *might* have been an overappreciation of my responsibility, but I still felt it was my duty to the Policemen, EMTs and Firefighters who rely on their radio system daily for life-safety related work, and so, by extension, did I. Politics and IMHO, out and out bribery were standing in the way. I made enemies, but gained some worthy friends in the process. I hope you did, too.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

I wouldn't really know as I've never worked for Local Government but in the case of Federal Government I would say it's [b]Normal Par for the Course Bureaucratic BS.[/b] Have I made recommendations that could save billions of $ latter on with only a minimal cost now Hell Yes and you know what they are now spending 42 Billion $ when they could have had the same thing 15 years ago for only an extra .5 Million. But I was told that the Department Doesn't [b]Waste[/b] money. Or a Safety Manual for a Cyclotron which didn't have in it anywhere not to place a Radio Active Material at it's focal point without Specific Authorization or state who was to give the Authorization. Not to mention that I could have turned the entire thing to scrap Copper & Plastic without breaching 1 safety protocol or my recommendation to do a full terrestrial audit of the proposed site. Didn't matter that there had been no tectonic Activity there in recorded history they needed to check. So the outcome was a Fault Line found during construction which was ignored, the safety manual remaining unaltered and nothing being done to fix the problems that the Bureaucrats made. Over all it's normal Government work and the only good thing to say about it is that when you stop doing it your head stops hurting as Bashing it against a Brick Wall is both Painful and useless. Been there and done that with no difference made, well maybe not no difference as I got a much better name with the Contractors doing the work but the specifications remained the same. With any Government work you expect the lowers common Denominator to make the finial decision who takes advice from the biggest idiot in the country or world. Making Reports are one thing which in my case have been proved right time after time and I very much doubt that any that I made are still surviving they being critical of the Bureaucracy would heave been mulched years ago. Giving Evidence to a Royal Commission is another thing that I have done over the years and that would still be available if there was anyone silly enough to actually want to read the full reports of the Royal Commissions. But going to the newspapers making a big fuss about what I don't like is a different kettle of fish as what I perceive to be a saving is considered by others to be a waste of money. The Breaucraticy always wins particularly when they can show figures that they are saving a cent. Doesn't matter that they spend 200 Billion to save that cent that's the way that they work. I have just walked away from all Government work as it's a Pointless Exercise and a complete waste of time and effort only good thing about it is you are sure that you get paid on time but it's so frustrating. Ask anyone else who has done government work and see if they can roll off numerous instances of Waste for the sake of waste but as it doesn't break any rules that's the way that Bureaucracies work. :D Col

santeewelding
santeewelding

Right fine, in that case. Don't generalize it.

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

No, Certainty isn't guaranteed I was very careful of what I said at first. I poured over everything I could get my hands on, as this had been part of my job description for years. I met very often with our consultant, who at the outset wanted the (Vendor B) stuff we had been paying through the nose for, but when I (along with my Super and purchasing director, who was a widely recognized amateur in our field) managed to point out just a few good reasons to recommend vendor A according to HIS OWN REPORT, he inexplicably turned back to Vendor B. . This is when I (well, We) went to the Department head (Who told us to shut up about it)The Mayor (Who wrote a letter to my dept. head telling him to get rid of me somehow)Fraternal Order of Police, the State purchasing agency, The city legal department, county officials and finally to our own lawyers. Certainty of winning this case wasn't there, But I was absolutely certain I was right. A Federal Court agreed, and the city did not appeal. I came out fully vindicated with a handsome First amendment award, too. Yeah, at least I was certain. Not everybody can amass the amount of evidence I did, and that goes back to a previous post of mine: Document, Document and Document some more!!!

santeewelding
santeewelding

Ah, that we could all be as certain as you make yourself out to be.

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

Don't you wright specifications for hardware? and Software/firmware? I'm sure that the quality, suitability and efficiency all are important to your operation. You surely have polled the users for what problems they have, what they can deal with and what is unacceptable. Your specs go out to RFPs of to RFBs. when the proposals/bids come back you (and probably some appointed committee without expertise)examine the bids for compliance, research the products for documented reputation, and make your recommendation based on your experience and training and your concern for the success of your organization. You find, however, that the committee of amateurs has over-ruled your input, choosing instead a combination that you know is going the be a major operations problem as well as costing millions more that your recommendation. A company officer who has strong connections with that bidder is declaring that he knows more than you or your department, that you yourself are incompetent and should be dismissed. Dirty stuff afoot, wouldn't you say? What if this organization is a local government, bound by state law to accept only qualifying bids, and the low bid from that list? What if the purpose of that law was to discourage bribery and kickbacks? Would you then make a report after exhausting all other means???

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

It's one thing to pick your battles and another thing if you are constantly looking for problems. If you are one of the latter your going to find a problem with everything and maybe much more importantly the Big Ones that you think are problems may very well not be, but by the time that is proven you have done so much damage to the company that it is not possible to repair. I work with computers and my job is to keep them doing what the company wants done I'm not expected to understand the Financial side of the business and to be perfectly honest just how many people would have believed me if 10 years ago I had Blown the Whistle claiming that the entire Financial side of the Prime Mortgage was a tissue of lies when so many where making so much money? The trouble with all Ponsie Schemes is that the people who are supposed to know better are too stupid to or just don't care. Those who do realize that something isn't quite right get laughed at. OH yes the World is Flat and the Sun, Moon and Planets revolve around it. If that is the general accepted fact then proving that it's incorrect is going to be very painful to you. The same applies to everything else till long after it has failed. ;) But much more importantly those who are not supposed to see these things get labeled as the Trouble Makers that they are perceived to be and that is the end of your working life in that field. Col

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

But: nya nya nya nya nyaaa nyaaa (But put off turning 65 as long as you can, anyway)

santeewelding
santeewelding

You can afford to. I'm only semi-retired. I can't. Stretch your own imagination, instead.

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

(I just though I'd stretch this out a little longer)

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

Then you *don't* really mean *mule nail*.;)

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

My daughter drives one of those...

santeewelding
santeewelding

Nowadays, Chevrolet Suburban with tinted windows.

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

You should talk to a specialist determine using your wit if he is coming clean with you. If so, recruit his help in remediation of the problem, however far it goes By the way, the more the merrier!.

Papa_Bill
Papa_Bill

I had four 'big name" lawyers working my case, they originally told we they would take a consignment (a cut of my winnings) but the judge awarded the separate pay to be payed by the losing party. They got BIG,BIG bucks, I got plenty for me and peace of mind. (The Mayor tried to give me a piece of his mind, too, put the press showed up.)