Enterprise Software

How to cut to the chase on the vendor cold call

For IT shops, vendor cold calls can be a royal pain. Here's how to save yourself some time and get the folks calling to cut to the chase.

For IT shops, vendor cold calls can be a royal pain. Here's how to save yourself some time and get the folks calling to cut to the chase.

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As IT managers, we deal with this everyday, if not several times a day. Some vendor gets through the receptionist and calls your office phone. "We are super technology company X and we can do all of your IT for you, save you time and money and basically make you thank God everyday that you hired us." Wow! Is that awesome or what?

Unfortunately, I get a few of these a day. Which one to choose? We have partners that do a lot of these services already. We have spent the time and effort to certify our partners and already know that they will provide the services that we want with the service level we want at the prices we want.

At the same time, i want to hear out a cold call if they can offer me something different, save me more money, provide me better service. But a vendor cold call that says "I can do everything"? I automatically discount it and actually get a little upset because I think they are wasting my time.

So here's what I do with vendor cold calls, and so far, it's working.

1. If the vendor calls and tells me about a new and exciting service or product, I start the clock. "You have five minutes to tell me what your product is and how it will help me. At the end of that five minutes I will tell you if we're interested, if it's something we want to look at in the future or if I want more information." They respond to that pretty well and the guys or gals who know what they are doing actually step up. If they don't have respect for my time and start to hem and haw, I tell them I don't have time for this.

2. If the vendor calls and tells me that they do everything that is IT, I have a much different approach. It may seem flippant or disrespectful, but I don't have time for a vendor that doesn't do their homework and cannot articulate how they can help my company and address my needs quickly. In my eyes, this lacks consideration for my time on their part. This is typically a fact-finding call to see where they can fit in. I don't have time for that. "I hear from vendors like you several times a day. You have 30 seconds to give me your company's elevator pitch. At the end of that time, if you have not convinced me that I should spend a week re-certifying my existing partners that already provide these services to consider you, then our conversation is over."

If they can't articulate how they're going to help me and convince me to spend time looking at new partners, then I tell them: "Times up. Thanks for calling. Have a nice day." And then I hang up.

Something I have been considering is telling the vendor when our partner re-certification process occurs each year and that they can submit a proposal at that time. Then they will have an opportunity to demonstrate that they've done their homework.

I am interested in finding out how you deal with vendor cold calls. Please comment below with your advice.

47 comments
jackfax_2005
jackfax_2005

It takes more than one call to get to anyone. If you are looking for the perfect elevator pitch tha tworks first time, everytime, there is none. If there was we would all be rich beyond our wildest dreams. Selling to and serving your customers with the best products and services takes good old fashioned patience, networking, teamwork and persistance. Being in the right place at the right time and a little pain on the customer side to need to listen to what you have to say. There ain't a C-Level out there who would respect that.

rkasnick
rkasnick

I don't know this guy, but he sounds like a typical rah-rah MBA type, you know what I mean, the guy who comes in and can solve all the problems, build a fabulous infrastructure, and walk on water. Trouble is, most of this type guy never last longer than about 2-3 years before they get itchy feet (the bio says... several jobs in different industries in 15 years?) or the management finds out they're all hype, glitz, whatever and removes them so they open their own 'consulting' service....what does this have to do with the topic? Only that it is part of the pattern, this guy apparently only cares about what he can do or what his preconcieved ideas/opinions are....in other words a vendors worst nightmare. (and no, I'm not defending vendors, just pointing out there are flaws on both sides of the equation) Vendors provide a service, it is only annoying if they become persistent, most will take a polite 'not interested' after the first two sentences, no need to get draconian and put them on a clock.

Systems Magician
Systems Magician

It does not hurt to learn what is new, I simply say. I have no time for this now, then I ask for 3 things, Name. Tel No and Web Page. Then tell them I will check out the web page, if we are interested, I will return call. Otherwise, do not call or email because I will cross off their info for not capable of following customer requests. Many callers get this but there are some who just don't, and I do not bother. It also helps to have a second email address and telephone extension, not a direct line, just for registration info, downloading white papers, etc. because this is where they mostly get the info to contact you. Many readers here are in a position to create this filtering setup for themselves.

xerusstreet
xerusstreet

Good back and forth discussion here in the comments section. The part about calling the FCC is so naive that I literally almost laughed out loud. I think it's good for all folks involved in non-revenue generating areas that somewhere in your company there are salespeople that help generate the revenue that got your company where it is today. I've been a successful sales rep for over 10 years and I'm not being arrogant at all in saying that there has nary been an appointment in the last decade where the person across the table from me hasn't got value out of the call. No matter what the reputation that people have of salespeople there are great ones out there, who help companies improve efficiency and provide solid ROI's on a daily basis. The approach of giving the caller 5 minutes to state their case is both refreshing and still a bit complicated at the same time. In fact you've given me a good exercise to take to some of the younger reps I currently work with--- so I appreciate that. Like some others I'm not saying that it's your job to field these calls, but let's not forget that there are great companies and reps out there making these calls-- with real solutions and applications that can help your organizations. To simply tell everyone you're not interested and let everything go to voicemail may be easy, but you're also missing out on potential relationships that can have positive impact on your organization. Remember in economic times like we live in today a nice ROI on a killer application can help your standing in the organization you work for. There are professional sales reps that help make many of these solutions possible. "Salespeople, the elite athletes of the business world!"

GregWalters
GregWalters

This is a most interesting string. Jay opens discussion with his version of dealing with cold calls - when we all know IT guys don't EVER pick up the phone - ever. Regardless, the "...kid, you got 30 seconds, wow me..." approach is great. The elevator pitch is charming... Great because I see the whole cold calling the IT guy as useless. We tutor our IT sales people that most IT guys are just glorified P/A's(purchasing agents). If you do not have a story that is compelling at the C-Level, a story of ROI, than don't even bother calling anyone. But when you do call or contact a company, talk to the person who tells the IT guy what direction the company is going. Jay, in your last post regarding getting "sneaky" voice mails - this is a circa 1990 technique from Steve Schiffman, the Cold Call King - the "third party referral" and the "hang up in the middle of your sentence..." are two other techniques. And quite frankly, contributes to the slick sales stereotype - I am sorry you have to go through that and apologize. The sad thing is these techniques actually did work, back in the day. But anyone using any sort of "technique" today, should not be trusted.

kingmans
kingmans

I once had a cold caller who left a message. He said, "This is So-and-so and I am calling regarding the DuPage County Hospital". He left his number and asked me to call him back as soon as I could. Since, my wife works in DuPage County and I have a few family members who live there, I immediately called the number. I told him who I was and said that I was returning a call concerning DuPage County Hospital. He launched into a description of the Network Management Software that his "solutions" company could help me with. I stopped him and asked him about the connection to the hospital. Get this, he tells me that DuPage County Hospital was a client that uses the software. I was livid! I told him that I called him back thinking that I had a family member in the hospital and told him that he should never call me again and slammed the phone down. I hope that wasn't an example of a good method for developing a lead.

sean.wilder
sean.wilder

I have been in IT/telecom sales for 15 years, so I was very interested in reading this post. Cold calls usually are a lose-lose. Salespeople hate to make them, and IT executives hate to receive them. Is there a better way for vendors to reach out that is less painful for both parties? I would really appreciate some feedback.

SilverBullet
SilverBullet

My many years of dealing with cold calls is simple, goes something like this. Salesperson: My name is Mr./Ms. "X", my company is Bla,bla,bla and can Bal,bla,bla! Response: I do not conduct this kind of business on the telephone, you may introduce yourself and company via e-mail or fax ONLY. I will contact you if this is something of intrest. My e-mail is 123@456.com, my fax is 123-4567. Thank you, have a great day. That is it, no exceptions, no back and forth with any conversation.

jackfax_2005
jackfax_2005

There isn't a C-Level out there who wouldn't respect that.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I don't know if disrespectful is the right word. A salesman is under extreme pressure ot follow up on all calls. It is his job, even when he doesn't WANT to call you back, he must. He must also schedule such call backs. I have been relieved of such weights in recent years but I still push myself to follow up all calls to vendors or prospects, just as most people do with job interviews. When I get someone that just isn't ready for me yet, I'll let them know I was just touching base and will send tehm the info they need, but I will also give a call back to follow up if I haven't heard from them in two weeks. That's more than fair and is not inundating people or wasting people's time. After two weeks, if I don't hear back, I'll give you a call and see if there were any questions or concerns about the info I sent and if not, if there was anything specific that turned you off. You would be amazed at how many people say, "We are going to pass at this time. We found that........" Their objections, "we found that..." is often something they have completely misunderstood or didn't read. Such as, 'we found that the ribbon size will not work with our existing receipt printers.' In which case it may have multiple ribbons available and providing that answer closes a deal. Even providing the info doesn't tell people everything and especially if they read when busy, they may miss such details of a product they use and benefit from. Another poster here thinks he's pretty clever and will find and research everything himself, I wonder how many times such opportune offers have been ignored due to his ignorance and disinterest in furthering his business? So, while I can appreciate your comments, and you do play fair, I always ezpect and accept a call back too. The worst case scenario is the guy calls me back and I just tell him it is not something that will benefit me at this time, but feel free to call some other time as business changes all the time. I think accepting and placing vendor calls is imperative to any business. If you are in the business of conducting business of course. I afford everyone the same respect I would expect myself. Perhaps if more people worked in such roles they would understand the importance of such calls and how you simply CANNOT find out the same info by yourself most of the time.

DHCDBD
DHCDBD

I agree that my post about calling the FCC is naive, I also grant that proper sales may help my business. The method I outline is one that was developed over time because it worked. How much more naive is my calling the FCC when you just called me on my personal cell phone and asked for the owner of XYZ as "The owner?" If you would have done as little as looked at my webpage, you would have had my name from the contact page, my email, business address, phone number and what the focus of my business is. Not having even my name, how can you possibly tell me about what a great opportunity you have for my business. You can not. A professional sales person probably would not even go there without the basic information above. When you call asking for the owner instead of a name you set off red flags - listen just long enough to determine if you are asking for employment, if you are calling as a customer, if you identify sales in any way, I inform you that you are calling on a personal cell phone that is on the DNC, that I have never conducted business with your firm, and ask to have the number removed. A smart sales person will get the hint, many don not. If you ask what I do, I will direct you to my website. For the sale person that does not have a clue, the wrong way to go about sales is not to research your target. I do field sales calls when I ask for them. Outside of this should a newspaper call me to sell my ads, I inform them that I do not use conventional advertising and prefer fliers for local advertising. When the printer calls to sell me the fliers, I inform them what it costs me to print fliers on my color laser printer and ask if they can beat the price by 10% including setup costs. In short, I disqualify myself. I generally know the current prices for the things I have found useful. If you can not beat those. Why call? I am that way on my personal time as well. As an example, a few days ago I went to a local music store looking for a guitar hanger. I did not like what I found because it was overpriced by $15.00. I looked around the store for a while. While I was looking at the Ping guitar tuning machines (the poorest quality named brand that exists) a salesman came over and the owner/general manager was sitting at a desk about three feet away. The salesman introduced himself properly and inquired about my interest. I informed him that I build, repair, and restore guitars as a hobby and always look around to see what may be available. I also informed him that I thought the prices were on the high side. He told me that he thought the prices were fair. In return, I picked up a set of tuners that listed for $30.00 and told him I could get them in single packs for $9.95, shipping paid. He scoffed, so I named the places and offered to show him on the internet if he had a computer available. He demurrer and asked if there was anything else I was looking at. I said that he had some Gotah and Grover tuners I was looking at but that I found the price high by $25. he asked if there was anything else, I mentioned the saddle and nut blanks he had on the wall that were not bone at about $16 per piece. He said they were fairly priced. I told him that I could go to two different professional luthiers who would sell me the blanks for $3.00 to $5.00 per piece. The owner sat in his corner with a shocked look on his face. Fact is I do not mind a sales person, they are just doing what they can to earn a living, but I hate shysters with a passion. When you call me to sell me wood, you better know the moisture content and density without having to refer me to a technical agent. If you call me to attempt to sell me a new computer, you need to have the information I request at hand, not have to call tech support. If I call you, I expect that I may be shuffled around to determine the information I need. If it may take a while to gather the data, I will leave a number. I escalate from reasonable and inquiring to an unreasonable @sshole very quickly. I do not want to hear 'uhh's' and 'well gee's', I would much rather hear "I do not have the information right now, may I call you back when I have it." That is what I do with my customers and I get back very quickly. Maybe I am an anachronism. I do not think so. The time I spend on the phone or in your face is time that I could be doing other things, so I expect you to have the information or to resolve questions quickly. That is what I expect of the professional sales agent. As far as the crap with Oz_media, I was baiting him as he so often does to others. Hope this helps you.

laurie.atwater
laurie.atwater

For some crazy reason, my colleagues like to send these calls to me. (OK, "dump" them on me.) I simply tell the God's honest truth...I am not the decision-maker -- That's who they want to talk to. I am way too low in the food chain. When they ask who that might be, I suggest sending a fax so it can be routed to the proper person. Depending upon what they are selling, it could be any one of several people. The assistant who sits by the fax has that info, not me.

Jay Rollins
Jay Rollins

One of the things that made me write this post is that I am getting some pretty sneaky phone and email messages. I have gotten several from people passing off that we have had a previous conversation and wanting to meet up again when I have never met these people. Second example would be name dropping that the CFO or CEO said they should call me as soon as possible when no conversation ever happened between the vendor and these company officers. Another example are reps calling saying they are responsible for the "insert company name" account and wanted to catch up and start working together again when no relationship ever existed. Any vendors out there trying this stuff: You will never get my business no mater what kind of deal you give me and I will spread the word of your tactics and deceptive practices. I am looking for long-term partnerships and deceptive practices are no way to start a partnership. They provide insight into the fact that you will try to screw me the second you get a chance. No thanks!

Darkpawn5
Darkpawn5

I hear what you are saying. But, not neccessarily lose-lose. I did sales for awhile and you are correct in the fact that they are difficult to make. But, sometimes you can make a call and bingo you have a sale. In answer to your question in the past I would always do a little a research on the company (ie. technology in place, any new projects that are up and coming as most big companies will put out a RFP) and then make the call to the decision maker of the company. On my end of receiving calls I will listen to the pitch then inform them that we already have said technology in place (which 9 out of 10 times I do) or the current product works perfectly fine and I am not willing to change to have a whoel new crop of issues come up, or already have a supplier/vendor for that. That way at least I am being polite but, not rude about it.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

not being a salesman works for me, yes there are always people that are too dim to see reality and will think that if you mail them info they will reply to it, which is pure BS. For the most part, you simply have to build a relationship and gain trust. Building a relationship takes time, however you can gain trust in seconds simply by NOT being/sounding like a salesperson. Sound like an executive that's just meeting peers and sharing business info, has worked for me for years now. I can almost always win this game, their job is something else, taking vendor calls are just part of their job. as a BDM, vendor calls an account management is my main job. "Hi Don, its Grant calling from HiCore, how are you, keeping busy? " "Hey Grant, what can I do for you?" (note he hasn't answered my question, he's just trying to sum me up and get off the phone" "Don, I don't want to take up your time or inundate you will calls, it was just a quick call to touch base and introduce myself." (don't stop for his reply, THIS is where you say what you offer). Pitch and close with a close ended question. "...which I can see you use on a pretty regulat basis, RIGHT?" (using 'right?' politely closes the question to a yes or no reply, not offering opportunity for rebuttal). "well...yes, Grant, I'm really not interested right now, I'm just too busy to talk with you and things are slow right now [i](padding themselves with a double objection always indicates BS)[/i]but if you want to send me more info I'll keep it on hand and take a look when I have time." Now, there's a LOT more to reading timing, how long it takes him to reply, pauses in his delivery etc that will indicate whether you have a shot at continuing conversation, you just learn to read it after a while. But to simplify issues, and if you're not that good at placing such calls... "Fair enough Don, I can appreciate that and I wasn't really calling to throw a product at you and have you pull out the checkbook, it was more of just an introductory call to see if we have common business interests than can benefit one another. So is there any specific information I can send you? Do you use the XYZ widgets too or are you mainly working with ABC widgets? Really? (still probing him for more purchasing info) Have you ever seen....." break into conversation, the guy will relax and spend time with you if done properly. I've had people ready to hang up the phone, say they are headed for a meeting, off to lunch, have a customer waiting etc. (more padding) And then they will spend 40 minutes on the phone with me regardless. These guys have a big bag of tricks to get away from talking to you too. A worst case scenario is you read that you are getting nowhere, agree to send on info and ARRANGE A FOLLOW UP CALL. There are NO instances at all where a follow up call can not be set up, if not, don't waste your time, move onto someone else. "Great, Bob, and thanks again for your time, I know what its like having sales reps call you all day. It isnt fun but some poor guy's got to deal with it, right?" (ALWAYS SMILE and always use closed ended questions, unless 'intro probing' but that's lesson 202). "I'll get that out to you right now and will give you a quick call again in two weeks just to touch base and see if you have any questions come up, 'okay'? (again, closed ended). "In the meantime don't hesitate to call me anytime if you want more info or if you have time for me to buy you a coffee one day." Next time you call this guy, his guard is down, you are just like him, he knows you aren't pushing hard and that you understand him and face his issues too. You were polite yet assertive, you got YOUR job done in introucing your company and let him go without being an aa$$hole. However, you got information, you sent him information and you have arramnhed follow up at his convenience. This is how they want their own employees to work too and they will often respect that you understand their business and are willing to work to make it painless and effortless but still get your ideas and products across. I have had SO many compliments on this approach over the years from many different industries. They appreciate you understanding THEM and not ignoring them to push product on them. The key is just not SOUNDING like you are working a deal but just networking in your industry with peers. In most cases direct competitors will play golf together, have drinks after work, meet for lunch etc. They are used to meetign peers and takign an interest in each others business, play THEIR game, don't sell them. The golden rule to sales calls is ABC - "Always Be Closing", but that can be subtle too, it doesn't have to be the approach of a teenager offering carpet cleaning services or circus tickets. You can be assertive without sounding like you're sellign something, get to know your contacts as PEERS. ON TR we don't know what most peers look like, so we treat them as equals for teh most part and talk to each other like we would anyone else. One thing i find with busienss to busienss callers is that they always think they are talkign to some HighBrow executive sitting at a Teak desk in a highback leather chair. Most of these guys are just people with jobs, even CEO's are just guys that drink beer, watch NASCAR, play golf but wear a suit to work. Havign worked both sides of teh fence and in both highbrow and casual positions, I have seen teh 'mental image' ruin so many people. They finally get to the door and meet the client and think 'I didn't know he'd be wearing sweatpants and a t-Shirt, man this guys nothing!' The next call to that guy is much more casual, friendly and more 'peer focused'. Which is eactly how teh first call should be, of course while still being polite, professional and driven. It takes time and a lot of practice (and I mean MANY years of hands on), if you are cut out for it it will work, but this type of relationship building is not something just anyone can do. Some people just can't read the voice inflections and signals to refract it properly, resulting in misery and lots of dead ends. As for dead beats who don't want to take vendor calls because they KNOW the market so well, I've seen mroe than one manager fired for not taking my call. Once you reach THEIR boss and are asked ot contact the original manager who had shut you down, sell the boss instead and explain that the manager had no time to discuss it and seek out what is to the company's best advantage. It is his JOB to discuss it, that's what IT and department managers take on as part of their role, it usually doesn't fare too well with the boss when they fail the company. If you want to play ball, I've been hanging out at the park a very long time and almost always go home last.

NotSoChiGuy
NotSoChiGuy

Citrix sponsors webinars I am interested in from time to time, as well as various white papers you can download/view. The only time I ever get contacted by Citrix is if I download something, and express a specific interest to being contacted in the process of signing up for the event/paper. I appreciate this approach. I got something from you, so I see no issue in at least giving back a few moments of time in payment to see if there is an alignment in need/product (after all, I did indicate an interest). Talent pimps are the worst with cold calling. As soon as you pick up the phone, they are spewing the spiel on candidate XYZ that just got off of a major client engagement, and has 123 skill sets, and is ready to come work as soon as the ink is dry on the contract---any interest? No! Nor will I ever do business with a firm that does that.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

That's the most pathetic shut down I have ever heard, one that gets even low end, dime-a-dozen telmarketers fired in a heartbeat. If you can't handle the most basic objection, you are in the wrong line of work. If considering vendors is your job, then do your job and consider vendors. Times change, technology changes and companies that APPEAR to have something unique are usually found ot offer the same as everyone else. I used to deal with purchasing agents all teh time, some were diligent and knew how to do their job, others just thought they had it all figured out and the company surrered due to their laziness and decision to not constantly seek new solutions for the company.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

First off all, people that wander into retail shops and state how they can but everything cheaper can go f*** off and find the other retailer who will sell at or near cost to get their business. I have no issue at all telling cheap loser to go elsewhere, I have real clients I don't need high maintenance, BS business too. In MOST cases, not all [i](no don't bother telling me about your buddy Surfwave Dave down the road)[/i] the low baller will offer crappy service, no follow up or return support, is not authorized to resell the product to begin with or will simply go out of business or not have stock. Anyone can offer a lower price if they don't have stock, its too common. Either way, I suppose you are right, bloody clever and one above everyone else in teh world, Bravo. But what made me reply was your incessant BS, such as: "When you call me to sell me wood, [b]you better know the moisture content and density[/b] without having to refer me to a technical agent. If you call me to attempt to sell me a new computer, [b]you need to have the information I request at hand"[/b] Followed in the very next paragraph by: "I do not want to hear 'uhh's' and 'well gee's', [b]I would much rather hear "I do not have the information right now, may I call you back when I have it."[/b] That is what I do with my customers and I get back very quickly." So they have to have the info on hand or they are not prepared for all of your silly questions, but if they don't have the info on hand, they are more than welcome to find it and get back to you. Which is it? They have to have the info on hand or, like yourself, they should quickly look it up and call you back, (of course risking being reported to Mr.T and the A-Team for their Federal Offense). Or let me guess, you were just talking out of your arse again. Just like all of your posts, hypocritical BS that you just spew in any order to appease or offend as needed. You are a loser, you lie to pi$$ me off, you lie to make friends, you lie to potential vendors ou are just full of it. What a tosser! I knew I had you pegged, reading your posts to others proves it right. You thought you were being clever and could stand on your own when I called you out on your last BS, and you have spoken about your unrealistic, super duper phone system before, operating on a single line cell phone. When proven wrong you suggest you are playing games for the fun of it. You say you were just playing games with me. But the first comments on thi sthread are your posts to me, where you state "Then I forget to write the information down or call the company and demand I be placed on their do not call list as well as file an FCC complaint if called again." The beginning of your post is serious, the rest is serious and you weren't playing GAMES or BAITING me as you have JUST told xerusstreet that you were naiive in saying that you would call the FCC. So, what were you? Naiive or baiting me? Neither. You just continue to wriggle and squirm hoping everyone is dumber than you and that nobody will see through your blatant lies. Just full of 100% pure, unadulteraled lies, bullsh1t and untruths. When you copied a copyrighted article in another post, you even added teh original owners disclaimer, not realizing that it does nOT allow you to post in a public forurm with thousands of readers. "However, users may print, download, or email articles for individual use." http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=302419&messageID=3021471 Face it, you're just stupid. As someone said earlier today, stupid is as stupid does. "Well y'all be done stoopid all day ever'day" I actually wonder if you are even over 14. You prove yourself to be completely unknowledgeable about anything but guitars. Your business acumen is that of a shut-in. You come across as a bitter old cripple that society scoffed at and passed by. Sitting in your basement, posting BS to TR in order to sound like you are capable of holding a job, between scouring kiddie forums where you pose as a 14 year old Jennisweetcheeks6969 so you can have conversation with young nubile females. To think there are people who have been forced, simply by geographic birth place and no action of their own, to let you share their air! No wonder you say you are self employed, who the hell else would employ you?

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Its an issue with misrepresentation by hungry and inexperienced sales reps. Very different indeed. Misrepresentation to get n the door is an offence tht the FCC will investigta efatter thay have about a half dozen complaints. For every person who does nothing, they continue to do the same to others. Nail them, I always do. I usually have a bit of fun on the phone with them first. If the guys claims he's done busines swith you but hasn't, recognize him and make a complaint. "That's right, I was wondering when you'd call, we've had nothing but problems since working with your firm." Now watch hism wriggle into the, "it wasn't me, I haven't dealt with you before" routine. YOu can really screw these guys up and make them rethink their approach. As these are IT vendor calls it is more than likely that they are not sales reps anyway but IT staff an doffice staff put to the task. I find iT companies generally have the worst sales and marketign staff, they sit right up there with charity telemarketing offices. I have just turned down two offers from software companies, Kaspersky was looking for a rep to work thre emajor account up here and so was Computer Associates. After reviewing their numbers and marketing strategies, I ran screaming. No way would I go down that route and they are supposed ot be large extablished companies with lots of money to offer, but no thanks. the sales departments are run by people with no marketing or sales experience, they think that because they understand how to install the product that they know how to sell it.

SilverBullet
SilverBullet

WOW OZ_Media,,,,, you sound short of your quota, that's your world not mine. My world is a matter of function and efficiency. I have done business with many, many vendors over the years. I rate each and everyone that I do business with in a manner of professionalism, product knowledge and respect. Just because you can't make a sale with COLD CALLING is a reflection on your own style, or the lack of same. Your demeanor leaves alot to be desired.

DHCDBD
DHCDBD

I am preparing for a meeting and do not have the time to devote to you or your product right now. Can you leave your name, company name, and phone number? I will call back when I have the time. Then I forget to write the information down or call the company and demand I be placed on their do not call list as well as file an FCC complaint if called again.

DHCDBD
DHCDBD

like a woman scorned. Huh, Oz_media.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

You are the biggest CLOWN we've had here in years. Just because you were proven wrong, now you have to move on to character attacks. You dream up stuff and play on it, your opinion changes like the weather, you think you have it all figured out and when proven wrong, you think you have it all figured out again and then when proven wrong yet again, you claim you have it all figured out again. I have had a life of hard earned sucesses. i have travelled the world, two world tours and one European/South American tour. I am in demand by numerous US and Canadian companies and get contracts thrown at me several times a year by companies trying to entice me to leave my current contract and enter one with them. I still work in the music industry sucessfully, but in a more freelance role lately as I am getting tired of babysitting bands and can't stand US record companies. Actually taking a few days off coming up to cover NorthWest (Washington, BC , Alberta)press with a band that is just starting a North American tour. I have opportunities left right and centre, I have no issues in my life as far as work and being paid to do exactly what I want to at any given time. Unlike yourself I was raised to believe that I can do what I want, when I want and earn a living doing it. Instead of picking one line of trade and milking it to death for the rest of my life. People change as time passes, fortunately I have teh wherewithal to change my work to suit my desires at any given time. I don't build ruts to lay down in for life until I die. If the bottom fell out of IT tomorrow you'd be FUBAR'd instantly, dead in the water, just another out of work IT guy with no useful skills to speak of. As for me I am a certified tradesman too and actually possess skills that are useful to others and in demand, unlike your own dime a dozen degree and experience which any kid with enough money to buy a box of Cracker Jack can have too. You did the same damn thing for 26 years, bounced around to every company that would hire you withint that same field, started your own business DOING THE SAME DAMN THING again and named it after a sh1tty American beer, that's the most boring existence I could ever think of droning through. My god you must be pining for your last day on Earth so you can get out of this dead end rut you have dug for yourself, how sad. I'd be looking for sharp objects if I were you, time to move on and put yourself out of your misery, maybe your next life could be more fulfilling. My god, I couldn't even imagine being stuck into such a boring and hideous future, you do have my sympathies in that respect but you could have done better for yourself too, so my pity only goes so far. Oh, and nice third party sales pitch, put that on your website and put people to sleep. Does Leif always speak in third part speak or did your mum write that for you? Now there's one for the headstone. Here lays Leif. No big desl here, did the same boring crap all his life. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. One life and you chose to do the same career path throughout it, my god, I want to cut my own wrists just thinking about it. People have dreamt of doing my job since they were children, I have fun for a living and make a good living out of it too. As you have no idea who I am or what I do, you are left just making it up as you go and wishing you could find something as boring and redundant as your own miserable existence to toss out at me. Now have a seat and STFU, loser.

santeewelding
santeewelding

Extends to the least of my creatures, which might be you.

SilverBullet
SilverBullet

ITSUX, but some poor bugger has to do it. As I was thrown into the clammy hands of IT some years ago, I became 'The Geek'. Since TR had a contest, I became 'TR's Geek Runner up'. "I am not a geek, I am a free man!" So now I am a 'self-employed, semi-retired, geek, artist management business develoment, automotive technician' kinda dude. Whether I like it or not, that's the way it works. Nothing better than being labelled, just gives you something else to prove wrong. Above is Oz-the-Geek's profile from TR. Impressive!? Sounds like a life of falure. Is there one person reading this thread that would NOT hang up on a COLD CALL and actually listen to anything the Oz Monkey had to say?

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Not at all, again you have no idea what you are talking about and continue to prove your naiivety. You can't "squeeze me out of the picture" and neither can you vendors/manufacturers. My manufacturers cannot deal directly with resellers/vendors, you cannot deal directly with my manufacturer's, I have a contract. My vendors MUST deal with me as I am the only source for them in the NorthWest. I would not deal with you anyway, I'd simply get one of the resellers/vendors to deal with you, they come to me and I don't deal with end users unless the vendor needs support. They can't order directly from the manufacturer and the manufacturer will drop ship direct to them or you once I order product for them, again I don't hold stock, but either way, it all runs through MY books and my territory. You can think you are DEALING with whoever the f**k you want as far as vendors, I couldn't care less, nor do I want the business of a single entity where I have to deal with stupid end user issues. I still get benefit of the deals without dealing directly with end users. One day you may learn how it actually works, but I doubt it with such a conclusive and inaccurate thought process. As for IT Management, I have been an IT manager and it bored the living hell out of me, that's how I found TR nearly 10 years ago. You can "call me out" all you like [i](most others can read a user profile to figure it out themselves)[/i] and i haven't professed to be an IT Manager by posting here, knock yourself out. You are still the one who is completely wrong in your rash and unqualified conclusions. As far as my posting in the wrong thread, I suggest you email TR and register your complaint, they need a good laugh every now and then. Wrong thread? :D WTH do you know about ANYTHING on TR? nothing.

SilverBullet
SilverBullet

Cost savings is a BIG deal in my world,,,, and I'll squeeze you right out of it! I work directly with all my vendors/manufactures with great success. Go away....... PS: You are on the wrong thread, every post you make is exposing your ignorance. You know nothing about IT Management, I'm calling you out.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I set quotas and targets but I don't have them myself. I contract to manufacturer's, I don't sell a product, don't warehouse a product, don't invoice or accept product returns, that's for the manufacturer or distributors. Haven't in years now but I do manage the accounts and see that their needs are taken care of, that they get answers from the manufacturer when needed, that they offer the right solutions to THEIR clients etc. I'm just a figurehead and face to put to the name, somethng like George Bush was when Americans thought he was the president and running the country. [i]"Just because you can't make a sale with COLD CALLING is a reflection on your own style, or the lack of same. Your demeanor leaves alot to be desired."[/i] You haven't got the foggiest clue what my 'demeanor' is, not even the vaguest, most distant idea. You may THINK you do but you are wrong. Please, oh wise and knowledgable entrepreneur, explain to me how you should introduce your company or take a product to a market and build new business without cold calling? I've trained and managed literally hundreds of sales staff form quick sales, to progressive sales, to account management. From small ticket items to big ticket items to multi-million dollar investments. I have dealt with Joe home owner, Joe home builder, Joe small business owner, Joe CEO of major corporation, to multi-national boards of directors. I've conducted/managed sales campaigns to some of North America's largest corporations, deals that take several years to complete and see through. I have marketed and promoted platinum selling bands and artists on world tours, I STILL cold call just like any professional does, as that's how you build business. Do we like it? Not usually but that is what keeps a sales funnel working, you can Google sales funnel/hopper if you wish. I also wouldn't ask anyone to do something that I wouldn't do myself, if I tell someone to cold call new business, its because I would and will do it too. Some IT nerd who thinks he can handle vendor calls and sales calls is not exactly a cerebral business challenge. It's like talking to a little kid "yeah, I'm head of the household" - "sure kid, now go get your mommy so we can have a grown up conversation." Give your head a shake, IT is the department most sales people avoid like the plague, as it is usually full of unprofessional staff like yourself who wouldn't know the companies best business interests if they had a color by numbers book to show them. Or better still, write a book yourself on "Building your business Without Cold Calling" it would be a best seller until people realized it was complete horsesh1t and it was thrown in the comedy section discount bin. How do thse vendors that you have done business with many, many times approach you without cold calling? Your comments prove without question that you have no idea what you are talking about and that you are an amateur at best. You can have a seat when your arms stop flapping around.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Yuo are just so completely out in left field, there's no hope of you returning to the base path. My comments about small business and new product lines has NOTHING to do with how you attempt to conduct business. Ghost guitars? Prototypes.

DHCDBD
DHCDBD

Here's another scenario, having developed sales offices for a coupl eof companies "who's product has NO advertising, NO website and NO market presence, how would YOU go about investigating and implementing that product if you needed it, without taking their calls? Answer, you can't you won't and you WILL lose out, as will your business. Where are these research options you know all about?" Let see. I pay my offsite webpage every month. If you check the proper keys, I am in the first four hits. If you go to Colorado Data Storage and know what you are looking for, you will find I am an affiliated partner. If you thoroughly check this site, you find links to my web page. Oh, I forgot to mention that I spend about 3.5 - 4 hours per day in researching products. You should also REALLY believe that I am something more than some IT guy. As far as an endorsed artist, you, of course, are aware that most use ghost built guitars and not the endorsed guitar.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

You continually try to peg me down or fit me into some container, as most Americans do regarding politics. It is a common world view tha Americans bleed politics, but you seem to have as much of a need to put people innto compartments that you will do it with anyone over anything. So you suggest that if you use the phoe for the above (bland description of telemarketing) then you are a telemarketer. You also mention that you conduct targeted calls in such a manner, which is pretty much al I do these days too, but even cold calls can be targeted and familiar. In either case, neither you nor I are 'telemarketers', it is not our main business focus, just a necessary evil that goes with developing a business. To suggest that making a few calls would make one a telemarketer is rather naiive; in that same sense, bake one loaf of bread, you are a baker. If you put up one wall you are a builder. If you suck one co*k, you are a... It doesn't fly. As for your vested interest garbage, if I did something over 12 years ago and haven't done it since, how does that equate to a vested interest? It doesn't, don't bother replying with more BS. To be a vested interest I would need to have some form of stake or long term insterest in it, which I do not. No matter what context you put it in, it is NOT a vested interest. I don't know what it is with you but you seem to feel everyone is as dumb as you are and you will go on and on for days in an effort to just make one incorrect statement ring true, try the other village, they have lots of idiots there. Your use of BS terms and made up examples just continually proves that you are completely lost and have no idea where to turn next. Credibility can be determined long before experiencing someone's words or actions first hand. That's why people select certain companies from others when seeking the right solution, they ALREADY have credibility based on past performance elsewhere. Awards and testimonials are ways of showing credibility without hearing a word from them directly. [i]"I will place my knowledge of law against yours any day." [/i] You crack me up! And there YOU are stating that it is a federal offense before calling the regulatory body to report completely legal actions. What a maroon! Funny how you are in IT now though, law didn't want you? I know MANY people who took law, I have two [b]VERY[/b] successful lawyers in my family that represent some of the biggest corporations in the world. Millions of people take law, that doesn't make them lawyers by any stretch of the imagination, when did you pass the bar? I studied literature and copywriting, that doesn't mean I can type. I studied criminology and criminal psychology, that doesn't make me a forensic pathologist or criminal profiler. You are just someone with a career in IT, that's it, nothing more, a parallegal? My ex wife was a parallegal, didn't know ANYTHING about law though. Even when a law is right in front of you, publicly available and an instant search response, you still make it up and pretend you know what you are talking about, you "were" WRONG suck it up and face it. [i]Do you know my business? Have you researched it?[/i] No, nor do I need to, we are not talking about YOUR business we are talking about the business of others. And you fail to see that your response to business callers is no different than someone assuming your own business role, which gets you all pi$$y and defensive. When some one calls you, and you think you're so cool and above them by quickly telling them lies about how you are going to report them to the FCC and how they are comitting a federal offense by calling you, how do you know that they are not calling you because they have a unique product, service or solution that would be great benefit to your business? That's taking blind busienss management to the extreme. You don't know if or when you are missing out, you are just being an idiot to them for no reason and showing them you don't have a clue what you are on about. Here's another scenario, having developed sales offices for a couple of companies who's product had NO advertising, NO website and NO market presence, how would YOU go about investigating and implementing that product if you needed it, without taking their calls? Answer, you can't you won't and you WILL lose out, as will your business. Where are these research options you know all about? "[i]Many people don't know they have a need for a solution until a lack or problem is pointed out to them." As above, but also insulting and insinuating that I do not know my business or do not research options.[/i] I see, you are 'many people' and I targeted an attack upon you? F**k you're sooooo stupid! Now that's a personal attack on you and I'll stand by it to the bitter end as you have got to be one of the dumbest people that I have ever debated with, period, online, in person, anywhere, the absolute DUMBEST individual I have encountered anywhere, well since about grade 4 when first I came to Canada and saw how backward the schools were and how uneducated my so-called peers were. Your comments on guitars are valid and knowledgeable, a lot better than our first comments which were opinions thrown out as facts. But then as I read on you revert to BS assertions again, can't you just quit before you start to adlib and make stuff up? [i]balance means... it is a personal preference[/i] Tonal balance is a measurable statistic. It is derived by the crossover of frequencies, which is also dependent on he amplifier's own capacitor types, crossover slope and which voice coil formers were used in build. The guitar itself has a passive balance design but most guiltars, especially electric guitars are far from balanced but offer colour which is unique to each manufacturer or particular product objectives. I personally think modern guitars are more popular because younger players want lighter bodies, fast, close actions without sounding like Chubby Checker. As you have intoned yourself, older guitars generally have a warmer sounding tone, Zakk Wylde also plays some classics but only when he's playing blues or old school rock. I actually prefer Pentatonic 'pinch' guitar, but it does get redundant after a few hours of listening withotu a change. I usually don't work with US acts anymoer and UK acts are all over Europe and South America/Japan, they avid our now useless market like the plague. As for th eband I have a recent press gig with, he is endorsed (Washburn) and the other solo guitarist I work with a lot designs hiw own but has also recently been endorsed by ESP. Not a lot of chance to try new guitars out though, unless ESp or someone starts building new signature models that tey have to test, work withthe engineers and practice on befor etouring. Between gigs, studios and endorsements, yuo get pretty tie ddown to your work and just don't get to play with it anymore, sad but true. But I thank you for your kind offer all the same. one of my good friends, where my current alias originated as a nickname, has around 200 guitars in his home at any given time. He's been collecting from EVERYONE for the last 40 years. He has bought guitars from Ace Freely, Steve Vai (he actually bought the double kneck, heart shape used in the video from him), Mark Knoppfler, KK Downing, the list is endless. I'm sure he'd want one, just to have it (I honestly wouldn't be surprisd if had had a 101 or had sold one, you name it, he's played, bought or sold it, it seems), but again he is also endorsed by ESP so he has no time to play around anymore and is obligated to play ESP at all times when in public, he buys and sell some withotu ever getting to plug them in, so he's taking a back seat for a bit until he can keep his 'fetish' under control.

DHCDBD
DHCDBD

You may be correct. I'm pretty much done with this argument. I feel compelled to address a few things that you seem to overlook time and again, then I'll move onto thing that we actually agree with. Fair enough? " telemarketing Definition The act of selling, soliciting or promoting a product or service over the telephone. This content can be found on the following page: http://www.investorwords.com /4931/telemarketing.html" By definition, if you use the phone for the above you are a telemarketer. I even do this, but in a very targeted market, when I call to say "Happy birthday" or "Happy Wedding anniversary" or just shoot the sh*t with a client (keeping in contact). >"...such firms as well as having been a quality assurance manager for a global telemarketing center" Vested interest. Even if taken slightly out of context. >"Actually there are three, credibility being the most important and exactly what your opinion seems to constantly lack. " Credibility comes from doing what you say, in short actions. If someone tells you they will do something and they fail in doing it, credibility is lost. They only gave lip service. Often in todays world lip service is all you get - witnessed by the economic crisis. >"...your knowledge of telecom and regulatory law is hideous." I will place my knowledge of law againsts yours any day. Paying for college in my younger days I worked as a paralegal for Carl Malouf in Logan, Utah. >"That's the problem though, you are not straight up and simply show that you have no need or market for their product" Do you know my business? Have you researched it? On this face, I either have a fishing expedition or an idiot. But it goes beyond that. You have the unmitigated audacity to assume you know more about my business than I. >"Many people don't know they have a need for a solution until a lack or problem is pointed out to them." As above, but also insulting and insinuating that I do not know my business or do not research options. Now on to things we actually agree with. Before I move on to this, S101 has three different reputations: Acoustics Suck!; Electrics: depends, if you have brand loyalty, they suck, if you have a taste for quality, they are a very good bargain for the money. In fact, they were such a strong bargain that ESP and Gibson purchased their entire production for most of 2008; I am unsure as to the current status of that contract. I agree entirely than tone is a personal preference. The ES-335 is still a popular guitar for blues players. The LP, which is the style I prefer has a deep tone with a lot of bite and attack because of the weight and composition of the guitar. Mine has a 1/2 Maple cap, mahogany body and neck with a rosewood fretboard. A strat has the traditional sound because of the Alder body, the bright piercing tone of the traditional strat comes from the angular placement of the pups, the higher poles of the 'G' and 'D' strings, and the maple/neck fretboard. The rosewood fretboards do not sound the same. Moreso than the body the tone comes from the interaction of the neck resonance, the pups, and the controls - excluding the amp/effects settings. On an acoustic the tone comes from the top, body and sides moreso than the neck. The bracing is open for questions but certain designs are traditional for certain types of guitars. With acoustics, the grade of the woods are far more important than they are with electrics, but I have seen Blueridge plywood back and sides consistently beat the crap out of Martins. When you get to electrics, the story changes. More than the wood, the onboard electronics play a larger part. If you use overwound pups, you get a more detailed top end, less complex mids, and often muddy bass. If you use underwound pups you get a clearer bass, more complex midrange and weaker, less detailed highs. With PAF (used to mean traditional winding, rather than to refer to humbuckers) pups you generally get a more balanced sound, BUT What does balance mean... it is a personal preference. Scale differences also create different sounds. I personally think that the more modern guitars are more popular because of the traditional companies (Gibson, Fender, Gretch, Guild - really Fender under a different name, etc.) failure to experiment with different body styles over the years. When it comes to music, I prefer the Mixolydian mode of the major scale or the Pentatonic modes. You may prefer the Locrain modes (minor scales). Again, this is entirely personal. When it comes to passive tonal effects such as coil splitting/tapping/phasing all bets are off. Should you have a band come to Utah, contact me and I will have them play an S101 that I have. I will also have them ply several guitars that I have built. (No, I am not looking for business!)

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

[i]"Fact is that you have a vested interest in sales, especially telemarketing[/i] False, and definitely not fact. I have a vested interest in account and business management, sales is just a small part of that picture. Telemarketing I have NO vested interest in at all. I just have years of prior experience training reps and developing sales offices and have worked for a government regulator who monitors and addresses complaints against such firms as well as having been a quality assurance manager for a global telemarketing center (12 years ago). I have worked for major telecom companies and telecom was my field of expertise for many years, having learned the laws, as I was in the industry at the time of deregulation, it is an area of personal knowledge but very little interest. I am proud to have been there and learned what I did, but it doesn't interest me and I certainly don't have a vested interest. Thus saying I have a vested interest is simply false and not, as you suggest, fact. [i]"There are two ways to judge people: words and actions.[/i] Actually there are three, credibility being the most important and exactly what your opinion seems to constantly lack. If words and actions are the only ways to judge, your words and actions show you as inexperienced and ignorant of facts surrounding that which you state. [i]You poo pah these strategies and inform us how this does not work. But it does.[/i] Sure, on inexperienced lackey's or those with enough experience to know you are a waste of their time, its got nothing to do with you outsmarting or being one up on them though. I didn't say your methods 'don't work', I just said that what you state as facts are pure lies. They sure as hell wouldn't work on me if I was calling you, I wouldn't call back but that's just becuase you come across as an unknowing fool who wouldn't know a good business move if it smacked you in the face. People like you are just people to skip and move on from, your words are irrelevant, the threats are idle and inapplicable, your knowledge of telecom and regulatory law is hideous. Why would any good rep even bother looking for your business, you'd be one of those horrendous high maintenance customers who always mirepresents product, can't get his facts straight and just doesn't do enough businss to warrant anyone's time. If anything, your ability to show how clueless you are by stating such bs to begin with, is enough to make any rep run screaming, just too much work. I have run up against business owners like you a million times, its easy enough just to set the record straight, prove you are full of sh1t and move onto the next call anyway. [i] "Problem is that if I or someone else has no need or want for your widget, why should I or they buy it."[/i] That's the problem though, you are not straight up and simply show that you have no need or market for their product. I aways listen to intros and if I don't need the product I just explain poitely that I am unquaified. Use the rep's name and he knows you were sharp enough to hear that much so you must have listened to him, he has no recourse. They can ask a few quaifying questions but they soon see I am not a good potential customer. 5 Minutes of my time, I didn't rattle him, so he can have a good chance on his next call. I'm not there to sabotage their efforts, salesmen must earn a living too and many bring great solutions to the table that help our business and nations succeed. Instead of rational and respecting someone earning their living, you think its more clever to just lie and think they are dumb enough not to know better. Face it, there ARE smarter people than you that call you. If you knew how to accept a call and quickly terminate it by not qualifying yourself, you'd come across as fair, knowledgable and unqualified, they stop calling at that point you'll be a dead prospect instantly. [i]"Another point is that with all the overt lies salesman tell, whether deliberate or simply that they are misinformed, why should I let you tell me what you needs are.[/i] Many people don't know they have a need for a solution until a lack or problem is pointed out to them. You seem to feel that anyone calling you for business reasons is a scammer, it appears that you have very little real business correspondence/experience and just have a lot of two bit call centers calling you instead. If you don't have a need or can't gain benefit, you are of no interest to me at all, I move products based on product merits and customer needs, providing solutions, I don't need to misrepresent or lie about a product or need, my business interests move on their own merit and client demand ( in fact I have a desk full of applications from people who want to sell my product lines but I protect territories for worthy vendors instead and let the other players wait in line) any good salesman will do his homework. You are simply speaking of a few low end call centers, not actual marketing departments or well trained sales staff. Your story is merely an individual example or staff with little or no knowledge, yet you have built industry wide opinions based on such weak facts? As far as your guitars, even the Maple made in 1958 was a semihollow body. Knowing music, you would also know that tone is an individual preference, not a fact as you like to pretend all of your opinions are. I have worked in the professional music industry and have been an audiophile since the mid 80's, tone is personal preference, 'warmer' tone (a really amateur description for what is generally just purposely attenuated upper midrange)is a desired sound by most older people (no offense to the elderly, its just preference). They became used to it from old radios, vinyl and those couch sized console stereos that used to fill living rooms up). A younger generation leans more toward a more detailed, forward soundstage (like the ESP, BC Rich sound), which isn't present in many classic guitars. I'd have to ask around for specifics on the 101 though, I have a slew of professional guitar techs and recording artists I will throw it by to find a concensus on if/why one would be better quality than the other, besides merely the use of hardwood. (however I do acknowledge the importance of body in a semiaccoustic) [i]I could go on, [/i]oh please don't, its just tiring listening to your constant character accusations and false assumptions. You have come so far from your initial assertions that were completely false and incorrect that you are just looking to find SOMETHING you can be correct about, but it is irrelevant. You even managed to bring your field of real knowledge into it now, old guitars. You made several FALSE statements about law and regulation. You were proven wrong, not my opinion or vested interests, you were just WRONG as they are regulations and laws that can be confirmed and validated or invalidated, as were yours. What's funny is that you say I have rose colored glasses on, meaning that I believe some story I was fed. If you call law and regulatory facts 'some story' then it explains why you are as lost as you are. [i]The point is that most of use do not want to hear from a salesman unless we have expressed an interest.[/i] No the [b]fact[/b] is you lied about law and how you address such calls, anyone knows, including the people calling you, that SOME people in business (the topic is BUSINESS CALLS remember) but not most, do not want to hear from a salesman unless they have expressed an interest. Now I know the discussion is about business calls and you are obviously not keeping yourself in that loop, but business calls SHOULD be a key interest of any business owner. Especially when they are relating to competitive products and services. The people, such as yourself, who feel they know it all and will call if they need something are the ones that get left behind while others progress. How do you know about the latest product lines unless you open your eyes and accept that the way you do business must constantly be in a state of change in order to keep up? Well you've already proven from your own comments that you simply don't know. I'm not a ballad fan, but thanks anyway. Anything slower than high-speed and hard must be audiophile quality (Chesky recordings, Telarc productions etc.)and those recordings are few and faw between these days, as people's desire for accurate audio reproduction have gone the way of the i-Pod.

DHCDBD
DHCDBD

that you are so blinded by the light that you can not see your own BS. Fact is that you have a vested interest in sales, especially telemarketing. We look at your posts on the subject and that is supported. You assert that I post lies, since you know me so well, we must take your assertions which are unfounded. There are two ways to judge people: words and actions. Your actions support the above paragraph. You defend with a passion telemarketing or sales calls which are the same thing. Now here is the issue: not all people can be sold to. Most people just are not interested in sales calls. Many have devised effective strategies, including myself. You poo pah these strategies and inform us how this does not work. But it does. When I had the sales training that I have, they taught that when met with an objection, counter the objection and always seek to close. As you point out numerous times, always close. Problem is that if I or someone else has no need or want for your widget, why should I or they buy it. Another point is that with all the overt lies salesman tell, whether deliberate or simply that they are misinformed, why should I let you tell me what you needs are. In regard to the last sentence, let me give you a story. I had a computer problem in which a new computer failed. After numerous repair attempts the OEM replaced it with a nearly identical one. The OEM then tried to tell me that it was the same computer. On the surface it was. The only difference was the discrete graphics - the old one has an Nvidea GO 7600 and the new one has an Nvidia 8400 m, both have 512 meg dedicated video RAM. Newer = better, right. Wrong! The 7600 has a throughput of 19.2 Gbits/sec whereas the 8400 has a throughput of 3.6 Gbits/sec. Even the Vista advisor picked up the loss of video performance dropping from 4.5 with the 7600 to 3.0 with the 8400. My needs in fast video are fixed. HP would tell me either that there is no difference or that the 8400 is better. Utter demonstrable hogwash. Another example in another area. The Gibson ES-335 reissue lists for $4200. It is made from plywood. The S101 ES-355 knock off is made from real maple and constructed to the exact specs of the 1965 Gibson ES-355. The S101 sells for $235. Gibson tells me that the S101 is inferior to the Gibson reissue. This is an incorrect representation by Gibson. Simply put, Grade AAA maple produces a better tone than plywood. I could go on, but I think the little I have presented will not pass through your rose-colored glasses. The point is that most of use do not want to hear from a salesman unless we have expressed an interest. If you are a ballad fan, listen to Marty Robbins "Strawberry Roan," it is on the Gunfighter album. "Not all horses are meant to be rode." FYI: the remark about telemarketing was sarcasm in previous posts.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

"As say son, listen up ya might learn something." Your assertions are completely insane and have no supporting arguments. What's with this post? You were proven wrong, plain and simply there's no way around it, you were incorrect, that's it and you are STILL to prove otherwise. I showed you the laws that you say cover you which clearly don't. Rose coloured glasses? Who's CoolAid am I drinking? You are clueless. Get real? Uh, you were th eone spewing lies about laws you feel protect you but actually don't exist. I should have learned you don't mince words? That's why i quoted you word for word with your lies and BS. My bias? I didn't even recognize who you were untli you started on again about how clever you are to run a tin pot business from a cell phone and report all the "Federal offenders" that call you on it. Dude you are just a liar with no hope, why don't you go and focus on building your business for a change.

DHCDBD
DHCDBD

and get real. As I told you, and you should have learned, I do not mince words. If you put aside your bias, you might actually learn something.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I never said you didn't have credit, I said that your setup was petty and business will avoid calling for several reasons. The reasons I listed could be in part or all together, either way it was correct. It is as common as breathin air for somone outcast from an industry to go alone and blame th eindustry for his chocies. It is also a red flag if the company is small time that you may have little credit, in your case you are fortuate to have credit, that doesn't dispell my comments though. My point is, you seem to think you are an untouchable businessman, you are incorrect. Any company has full rights to solicit their business to you whether you are on a DMC list or not, you still haven't proven otherwise and that was your big lie and the whole basis for your rant. Your failure to offer any proof of your convictions illustrates that you had either been misinformed, misunderstood the regulatory guidelines or just blatantly lied, doesn't matter which, my point is that you were wrong and you haven't shown otherwise, no big deal, suck it up and move on. Just don't start coming back at me with your condescending posts and more BS, as if you have a hope left. [i] 1)"Then I forget to write the information down or call the company and demand I be placed on their do not call list as well as file an FCC complaint if called again. "[/i] That was the post I corrected your misinformation on, from there you just got defensive and snotty and lied. [i] 2)"I damned well do as I wish. If you don't like that, then stuff it. " (Abrasive) 3)"All my numbers are on the national "Do not call List." So, if you are a salesman I do not do business with you are in fact "Committing a Federal Crime." Yes, I do call the FCC if you persist in not getting the message." (Lies) 4)"Sorry that you work for a telemarketer and feel the need to justify how good of an unwanted service they are providing." (Condescending, libel defamation of character) 5)"You have... the IQ of an amoeba " (Condescending, libel defamation of character) 6)"Please quit trolling to justify the salesman. I just have no interest." (Condescending and accusational) 7)"I chose to leave the corporate culture because of people with the attitude that you demonstrate."[/i] (assumptive and condescending) I don't believe in corporate culture, I have stayed away from working for corporations since 1995. I develop new and existing business and streamline company systems, bring in new staff, company image, online and print media optimization, find new manufacturer's to represent etc. (a general all around fixer upper for the business) which I do under contract for small to medium sized businesses looking to grow to the next stage. Corporate strctures with multi-tiers and nowhere to go bore me to death. I hate the capitalist mentality when it is taken to corporate levels as it becomes too political and people are often found in positions they have no business in. So, now that you were wrong about me, again, and I mean it in the nnicest way. You were wrong and you were proven wrong accept it. It is no big deal, you weren't able to mislead anyone anyway, so have a seat and SFTU.

DHCDBD
DHCDBD

You are correct that I run a small business. You are incorrect about my credit. You are incorrect about being cast out; I chose to leave the corporate culture because of people with the attitude that you demonstrate. I now provide services for that culture without sales calls relying on word of mouth. If I do not like the person or the corporation, or the business, I do not accept business from them. I do not make a lot of money. My house is paid for, my car is paid for, my winter utilities come to less than $500. My hobbies are martial arts and building guitars. Since I practice daily, my martial arts is in form, so I am left with the cost of materials to build guitars. Just how much money do I need? Not much. The tools are expensive, but they are paid for. I occasionally code a program and either release it free/shareware or charge a minimal fee for it. When I release a program as freeware, I release it under the GPL without the source; if you want the source, I charge a very large fee (so far no takers). The difference is that I am happy without being a money slut. No, I am not flaming your posts, even if you see it that way. I do offer simple objections. If you think that I am flaming you, I'm sorry; please refer to the amoeba because I do not mince words.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Pretty easy, you lie to stir it up and then get pissy when you are proven a liar. Again, for the slower one in the group, if your cell phone is your primary business line (which you have lisisted it is) it is then automatically deemed a business line. You don't have business cards either, I suppose? ANY company that calls any line incessantly can be reported to the FCC (the same calls I used to respond to for the CRTC and then remote monitor the company making such calls). Having your cell phone and a single dedicated fax line illustrates several things business avoid: one: you are a small time business owner, two: you are most likely a cast off from other established companies in your field and work independently because nobody will hire you (a red flag for credit) three: you have no idea how to set up a business or again a lack of establishment. Two bit, small time, waste of time, NEXT! Most of my business is conducted on the road, I've seen and dispatched a million guys like you that like their business to sound larger than life. Don't bother, you are just plain wrong and that's all there os to it. The DNC list does not protect you at all, not one tiny bit, not one iota. Have a seat

DHCDBD
DHCDBD

the IQ of an amoeba if you have not figured a few things out like my cell is in my personal name and not business. Please quit trolling to justify the salesman. I just have no interest.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Firstly, a "business" run by a single proprietor on a cell phone is not really a target for anyone, unless desparate. I have many business owners who use a cell as their contact number but they also have a multiline system in the office so they can grow and operate as a business. [i]All my numbers are on the national "Do not call List." So, if you are a salesman I do not do business with you are in fact "Committing a Federal Crime."[/i] Firstly you said you only have ONE number and a dedicated fax. What are "all of your other numbers" from? You already said you don't have a land line, in your other BS posts. Do you make up numbers and put them on little pieces of paper that you hand out like business cards to the other kids at recess? [i][b]'Mama says they're my special shoes! Mama says I can go anywhere with THESE shoes on'.[/i][/b] LOL :D You even quoted "Federal Crime" as if it was applicable! You are a funny one (though not a very clever one, it seems), so here we go again with dispelling your continual flow of pure trollop and lies. You should really save this stuff up for the Friday Yuk. Legal FACT directly from the National Do Not call Regsitry that you deem so effective: [i]The National Do Not Call Registry is only for personal phone numbers. Business-to-business calls and faxes are not covered by the National Do Not Call Registry.[/i] If you use your cell phone as your primary business line, then your cell phone is deemed a business line. Link for your own eyeballs: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt107.shtm So you conduct BUSINESS on your phone and you feel a BUSINESS calling you to conduct BUSINESS is a "Federal Crime". (good one) Well you're just plain wrong........again, as always. [i]"Sorry that you work for a telemarketer and feel the need to justify how good of an unwanted service they are providing."[/i] I don't work for a telmarketer, I do not need to justify anything; unlike yourself with your constant attempts to justify that your lack of proper business lines equates to you being clever and knowing telecom. No you are not rude, you are not very bright either, but that's for you to work on, not me. As for sales firms checking the list, I can buy that list too, so can you. The cheesiest and most sketchy companies are not bound to that list anyway but will use it to save actually buying lists of numbers from other telemarketing firms. Offshore or out of country calls from scammers will still buy and sell your number like a cheap hooker. You should really look into laws and details before you post your lies, you only sound dumber each time. In fact I think its fair to say "you sir, are a moron". What a numpty!

DHCDBD
DHCDBD

I damned well do as I wish. If you don't like that, then stuff it. Now with the niceties out of the way, I have told you in the past that I take calls on my cell phone and keep a fax on the landline. I do not have the time to take a call from a salesman that is not scheduled, even if I am currently doing nothing - period. From suppliers and vendors I take email or call them to set a time. If you are not one of those I routinely deal with or have not issued an inquiry, I don't have the time or the want. I simply don't care about your widget. All my numbers are on the national "Do not call List." So, if you are a salesman I do not do business with you are in fact "Committing a Federal Crime." Yes, I do call the FCC if you persist in not getting the message. I also block numbers. I do not have the finances to hire someone to field calls that I don't want in the first place. Sorry that you work for a telemarketer and feel the need to justify how good of an unwanted service they are providing. To address the rudeness that others have inferred. No I am not rude, To the point, yes. Using a matter of fact voice, yes. On the do not call list, which sales firms are supposed to check, yes. But rude, no.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

There are two things a sales rep should NEVR put on a resume. Being a consultant and selling toner or business machines (copiers, faxes etc.). In most fields of business, a 'consultant' is the laughing stock, an unemployed sales rep. Any rep that can't move forward in a career and loses their job falls into the copier/toner/business machines world, they hire reps like telemarketers at a long distance convention. I don't know how many reps I've seen fail that later show up to drop off a Xerox business card, that one slays me. :D

jdclyde
jdclyde

is some people that feel they need to be rude for these calls. Gawd, I am tired of people calling trying to sell print cartridges, though... ;\

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

"I haven't told you anything to get interested about yet!" (straight back to qualifying without skipping a beat). or "I understand that you're not interested, JD, but before I let you go, may I ask specifically what it was you are not interested in? Improving on your existing system? Saving some more money on what you already do?" or "Not Interested? I can aprpeciate that but it tells me I obviously haven't done my job very well then. What is it that you were not interested in?" (review key intro, qualifying points) ie: "You don't implement your own mail server? No need for increased bandwidth? I must have missed something because normally people are eager to hear me out especially in these times of economic struggle." Of course there are always some people who decide they did their job once and don't need to do it again, to the company's loss of course. In that case, find a new contact at the same location that is willing to do their job. If not, hang up don't waste time with time wasters and get on to people who want to manage, monitor and improve on existing relationships. [i]"Polite, yet right to the point, so neither their time, nor your time is wasted. Why would someone see the need to get nasty with a sales rep?"[/i] Well said, a good rep knows when he's wasting time, but there's always an opportunity to have one last ditch effort before accepting their fairness and polite approach before letting it go. I accept all telemarketers, within reason. Having been a monitor for the CRTC, I can usually identify a loser on the phone pretty quick and shut it down get off the phone and move on. Someone actually doing a good job and conducting a call well is simply doing what you and I do every day, working hard. I'll hear them out and you never know it could be worth my while, once I realize it will go nowhere I can explain that, in polite terms, and terminate the call. A good rep knows when to let go, a good purchaser or prospect knows when to terminate a call and how to terminate a call. "Thanks for your call, Rick, I'm sorry but it really isn't something I can see myself taking on at this time. Feel free to send me any literature you may have but it is not something I am willing to discuss now, you can always touch base some other time down the road, things may change." Its not hard, doesn't get you put on a random daily call back list and leaves the caller feeling good enough to move on and get the next guy. or "Sorry, Rick, I have just been through a lengthy decision proces to get our existing systems in place, however if you have info you want to mail out, I am more than happy to review it or file it for next year's review. Either that or you can diarize me for a call back next March/April, we'll be collecting info again around that time." You haven't shot anything down, you have offered to review information (just be sure to do it when you receive it) you can even accept a follow up call, nobody's time is wasted, it's your job as a purchaser for your department. The caller is left thinking you are a great guy, he will be polite and follow up when asked." Its so much easier when you don't try to play a game with people who hear people play those games all day. They won't think you'r' clever or sharp, they'll just think you are another loser and, if they've had a bad day, it can result in a lot of unnecessary but still completely legal calls to come. Quick shutdowns or lies about how busy you are are just going to result in more problems for you, its so much easier to take the call and actually address and respect the caller. Conducting business is just that 'CONDUCTING' business, not just pretending you are more important than the companies you may need to rely on to conduct your daily business tomorrow. Those are the mistakes of people without business background or knowledge and exactly why most businesses avoid speaking with IT staff and look for more capable employees to deal with. I actually just attended a provincial security meeting the other day and dealing with (working around) lazy, unprofessional IT staff was a keynote topic. Basically if you MUST have IT members at a meeting regarding system implementation, let them sit in but focus on the buyers not the implementers (IT staff) until it directly relates to their installation task. There was more than one company there completely disappointed with how their own IT staff fail at finding the best solutions or staying on top of it. Perhaps standard IT and IT management courses should be enhanced to train IT staff on conducting business or how to seek out what's best for the company and not just what they heard about in IT forums. In such an inundated market its hard to avoid business to business calls and it is an important part of IT staff's job these days, just not one many are willing to do too well.

jdclyde
jdclyde

but thanks anyways." After all, they are just doing their job, just like everyone else. Polite, yet right to the point, so neither their time, nor your time is wasted. Why would someone see the need to get nasty with a sales rep? They can get on with the next call, you can go back to playing minesweeper.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

that's absolute horsesh1t. For a B2B call to result in someone offering to call the FCC is simply insane, you are in the wrong line of work! To hear that as a rep, you have either REALLY screwed up your call by sounding like a telmarketer or REALLY pissed someone off. Having been in B2B sales and business development for over 25 years, I have yet to hear a single client, out of tens of thousands, offer to register a complaint if called again. This isn't selling window cleaning to residences. Even THEY don't get such treatment unless they really screw up a call. But if that was truly your idiotic reply, I'd treat you as the loser you come across as, I am in business to conduct business, not waste time with people who think they are more important than they are, YOUR loss not mine, there are several workarounds though. "I'm in and out most of the time too, instead of playing phone tag, which you obviously don't have time for either, when's a better time to call you back?" At this time he will either be frank and tell you there is no hope of building a relationship (thus stopping you from wasting your time) or he will entertain a call back. or "There's no reason for you to be sorry, we all get busy, believe me, I know exacty how you feel. As I have no idea what I can send you that would be of any benefit to you or your organization, I'll call again at a more convenient time just to make sure neither of us are wasting time with each other and to make sure I get you only relevant information. Is it best to catch you in the mornings or the afternoon?" or you can also try being open ended but assertive question, "When is the best time to catch you?".) I know you will forget to write the information down, I've done this a long time now and that's why I won't give such details to you, other than an email to be polite about it. The old, 'give me your card routine' just doesn't cut it with a good rep. Do not call list? Demand? It's B2B, you haven't actually done this before, have you? FCC? Over one business related call during busienss hours?Good luck with that! Its your job to take such calls, if not, find someone in the company that does make it their job to keep current on vendors. Get real, perhaps you should take more such calls some of them may be educational and you'd learn something about conducting business instead of pretending to fill the suit's chair with no clue about what take place in it. Call the FCC thats a good one! Way to waste your ever so important time!