IT Employment

Tech workers back need for more women in IT but oppose quotas

UK IT workers argue the industry needs to address its gender imbalance but say positive discrimination is not the answer.

The majority of IT professionals in the UK believe there needs to be more women employed in the industry, but are against positive discrimination for female workers.

Nearly four fifths, 77 per cent, of 336 IT workers surveyed by CWJobs.co.uk believe there are too few women employed in the industry.

The bulk of respondents, 71 per cent, oppose introducing quotas for a minimum number of female employees inside IT shops. Their preferred option for inspiring more women to take up tech roles was to better promote women with successful IT careers.

Reasons for women not choosing a career in IT, in the opinion of those surveyed, include the perception that IT is a male-dominated job and its "geeky" image.

The IT fields where women are least represented are, respondents said, engineering and security.

The perceived lack of women in the sector has motivated a number of organisations, such as the BCSWomen group, to try to address the shortfall.

BCSWomen group founder Dr Sue Black said: "Showcasing female role models, both within organisations and in the public domain, helps to highlight the women currently working in computing.

"Also, initiatives that practically demonstrate how to use computing as a tool can empower women and help them to see the potential of computing in their area of interest.

"Talent spotting and mentoring within organisations can also work well to improve the numbers of women moving up into more senior and high profile positions."

In contrast to those surveyed she does support the introduction of a quota for female IT workers: "To make a difference quickly though, I would argue for a quota or for getting organisations to work together to leverage capability, reach and impact."

About

Nick Heath is chief reporter for TechRepublic UK. He writes about the technology that IT-decision makers need to know about, and the latest happenings in the European tech scene.

87 comments
Manny_z
Manny_z

Since the 70s I have worked in Restruants, construction, manufacturing, & IT with women in all fields (Yes, even construction) & have been fortunate enough to have worked with some really great women who did their work as good as if not better than most men. The best auto mechanic I know is a woman, as well as some top notch IT folk. Even the women wielders & carpenters I've had the pleasure of working with were top notch. Maybe because they had to be to keep their jobs as they all seemed to be judged much more critically than men doing the same thing. In fact, seems the place where I actually didn't see women working was as short order cook at the restruants I worked at. Even health care I see as many male nurses now as I do female. I read a post talking about the drama women bring to the workplace & all I can say to that is that, from my bigoted male perspective, ALL women bring drama EVERYWHERE THEY GO! It's just how they seem to be wired. Why do you think soap operas are so popular? Now, having said that I must admit the women I worked with on the construction site themselves didn't bring the drama, neither did the ones I knew in IT, except maybe for my boss at my last IT job, but that was always confined to the bar after work & usually started by her husband towards closing time. I guess my point is that while I've always heard about the shortage of women in certain jobs, I've never really noticed it. I even see women working the road construction crews that pop up all over the place around here every spring. But for myself, I say bring on more women! A quota isn't necessary, they just have to know what they're doing. I would much rather work next to a woman than a man myself as I've noticed that women do seem to be more detail oriented & more into safety on the job. So much more so than I was when I worked construction (when I was young & thought I was indestructable). Both when I took electronics at a local business school & later when I taught at that same school I noticed that my classes in both cases had slightly less girls than boys. As a teacher I had to advise several guys to reconsider their choice as I didn't want to see them waste their money & time on a subject that they were obviously struggling with & would probably fail if something didn't change. I only had to have that conversation with 1 female student. The biggest difference between them was that the guys just seemed to be lazy as only 1 of them worked besides going to school while the rest were simply too hung over for class every day. Meanwhile the female was working a full time job as well as being in the National Guard & rasing 3 small children all by herself. After working with her for several weeks I finally got her into a nursing program which seemed to be more suited to her life goals. When I ran into her a few years later she thanked me. She had gotten a nursing job she seemd to like & was purchasing a house of her own. It seems to me that while men can go from job to job & many have the worries of providing for their families, it's the women that really have it tough in this world. I think John Lennon hit the nail on the head when he said that woman is the nigger of the world. As for the hireing practices of corporate America I believe the "good ol' boy" club is still alive & well where it's who you know that gets you the job as well as the practice of promoting incompentance to where they can do less harm that still rules the day. That's the only reason I can think of why there might be less women in some job fields that there should be.

fmzhang85
fmzhang85

Well, I'm a woman in an IT industry, started out as a programmer, debugger/tester, analyst and finally a PM. Honestly, the number of women in IT industry here in my country is small. That's not because women aren't interested in IT fields, in fact, there are more and more girls went to college/universities for an IT engineering/Comp Science degree. The lack of women in IT fields in my country is because most of the IT job advertisement clearly stated the requirement for the job has to be MALE. There were only a little where they didn't really care about your gender to apply for an IT job especially engineering. This fact was really discouraging back when I was still fresh coming out from university. Nowadays, some of the job advertisement for IT still requires only MALE for the job and the image of IT has since turned into a 'geeky' image which women probably find less interesting with the arrival of TV shows that show nerdy geeky IT workers and they probably don't want to be thought of as one. I honestly never admitted to being a 'nerd' or 'geek'. I think it's funny to call myself one though most of my friends call me either nerd or geek, which I don't really care as long as I get my jobs done. However, it's not really important to get the number of women and men balanced in IT fields. As for me, as long as the work/project/requirement is done, then I don't care whether it's woman or man behind it. Keep it simple!

cmwade1977
cmwade1977

Bottom line is, nothing but qualifications and will the person be able to get a long with the people in our office enter in to the picture for us.

GSG
GSG

There have been some comments that have been deleted due to the crude nature of the comments. Let's keep it clean, classy, and professional.

mmoerl01
mmoerl01

I recently graduated from an IT Security program. We had 1 woman and 20 men in the graduating class. To argue about a gender gap is like saying we should have a quota for male elementary education teachers which is the opposite ratio. My wife graduated from an elementary program with about the same 10:1 ratio. Of course there is a gap if there are no qualified candidates.

Clendanielc
Clendanielc

Looking at this article lightheartedly, I'm surprised no one has seen the hidden agenda behind this. A male dominated industry is asking for more females to work in the industry in which a good percentage of them are, how can I put this, a loner. This could be because terms like "geek" attributed to this or in fact its because there is a good number of men who are single. If you say no that can't be true, think of this. Besides a bar or religious institutions where else do people usually meet. Work. Whether it would be through a friend at work, through a work function, or at work. When it comes to IT, many of us are on call or do a little side business in addition to our full-time jobs. Never much time to fix our pale complexions. Though I did make a killing passing off as Robert Pattinson for Halloween. Killing as in no one knew who I was. I'm the only young guy surrounded by the older crowd. Here is another point. Do you see any female dominated industries stating that they need more men? For example Household Employment Services (Nanny), Child Care Services, or Healthcare. These industries have at least 69% workforce female dominated. I don't see articles asking for more men to be a nanny or work in child care. Maybe healthcare but child care or becoming a nanny, haven't seen one. The next argument would be, well if you are saying that a gender dominated industry leads to single people, it will only be a matter of time when the industries you mentioned above complains about gender imbalance. My response would be, who has an easier time picking up people, men or women. To be serious here, and before I dig a deeper hole with my dry sense of humor, why do we try to be equals. When people lose their uniqueness, try to be equal to someone else, try to force people to be equal, we will never have people who stand out. Yes, everyone should have equal opportunity to all industries. Yes, there are some industries that are gender dominated and push back the other gender from entering the industry, however I don't see the IT industry doing that. Like many of you, I look for quality / experience not gender or race. If you are eager to learn, eager to grow, and have a strong work ethic, I hire you in a heartbeat. It doesn't matter if you are Klingon or have weird hair with a name of Sanjaya. I think we get the term equality and its meaning distorted when we look at stats of industries. Though I do believe there is a hidden agenda to this article.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

If they want to have equal gender participation in any industry or work area, then they need to apply it to all. Thus, if they want laws to force people to hire women in IT they also need to do the same in other industries like miners and sewerage workers - if it's good for one industry it's good for all of them. You may now turn on your sarcasm alarms again and clean the slobber off the floor.

andrew232006
andrew232006

If 20 males and 1 female apply for a job, why should that 1 female have any advantage or any 1 male? Without using any gender biases, can anyone tell me the benefit of having more women in the field? And if we're going to have a representative portion of females in the organization, will we also work to have more African americans, Aboriginals, Latin americans, chinese, various other races, homosexuals, bisexuals, older people, younger people, people with attached earlobes and people with naturally blonde hair?

obritik
obritik

The IT field does need some type of system or program to make their management accountable for fair and equal opportunity so that women who are are genuinely interested in their field, who have spent their lives constantly educating and improving themselves, and are working very hard for the customer and the business, do get a fair chance. The IT field doesn't need to encourage more women to go into IT who are not really interested or are just out for the money or the nerd image and then will lose interest later. I say this from my own experience as a 55 yr old woman in the IT field in local government health and human services for 35+ years with current and extensive formal education and on the job training in HHS specialized apps, networking, GIS, webmaster, A+ tech trained, and BIS support who's worked on many IT projects. I can tell from when I walk into an interview by the look on their faces, and then when the subject of the job changes to chitchat about family, and by then I know I'm not going to get the same chance as if I were a 20 or 30 something male. New and previous management on my current job promote males and younger people only to have them later come to me, or are sent to me, to train in more complex areas, or customers come to me later to fix their mistakes. Yup, there is still a major problem with incorrect perceptions and prejudging a female's ability to do the job, and that holds people like me back. Very discouraging and a waste of a well trained and experienced human resource. Someone needs to come up with a better system.

Suresh Mukhi
Suresh Mukhi

I studied Computer Science where 40% of the class were women. As a matter of fact, our Summa Cum Laude was a woman. Women got better grades than the men. This was nearly 30 years ago. I now work as an IT Manager. Many of the frontliners of our vendors are women. I would say about half. They range from technicians, programmers, analysts and yes, sales. I live in The Philippines. Are you telling me we have made more "progress" in this area than the US or Europe?

pippie1949
pippie1949

For years I was in a computer chat room as a host. A lot of the chatters thought I was a male with a female nickname due to my knowledge. I inspired a lot of females who wanted to learn computers, after seeing how much technical help I gave. I also think there is a mind blockage with employers who don't think women can do IT, until they actually see them doing the work.

Araminta
Araminta

I am absolutely against quotas. The best person should get the job. But stop discriminating against women. Here is my problem with this discussion. Everyone assumes that there are no women in IT because they don't "choose it". But what about those that chose it and remain unemployed? Got my degree in CIS last year. I have a pile of rejection letters a mile high. Every tech job that I interviewed for.. they hired a man half my age. A couple of whom I had actually trained... grrrr... The only jobs that people were interested in hiring me for were web design jobs. How sexist is that? Especially since I have absolutely NO graphic arts talent. I guess because I'm a woman I'm supposed to grasp it? Sorry.. I'm much better at troubleshooting and customer service. I feel like I totally wasted my education. I've stopped sending out IT resumes.. going back into accounting. At least they don't discriminate against women.

JA12
JA12

I truly think that the best, most qualified person for the job should be selected, regardless of gender or age. Unfortunately, many of the employers out there negatively select against female/older canditates. The number of times I've come second to a younger male in the interview process is frustrating, when I know I'm more experienced, better qualified and have done a good interview. Talking to other older candidates, including males, they find the same thing happening to them. I blame it on the culture of young managers, I believe they possibly feel threatened by older subordinates. The same thing is true with female candidates, we have to be many times more qualified than male competition to be even considered for a role. That has always been the case in all industries, and hasn't changed. Forget the "glass ceiling", getting the job in the first place is tough enough... There's that "will the candidate fit our profile/our team" barrier that few women will suit, unless they are gorgeous, then they are not being taken on for their "IT skills", and that's just insulting...

orovan
orovan

Why in the world does it matter how many women are employed in IT? What matters is that each employee in a given position is taking care of business. I can't see the correlation between gender percentages and an organization success. What I do see is a correlation between employee's competence and organization success. The emphasis should be on qualification not gender. Suppose those gender bating talking heads want to hire more women so they have more skirts to look up into. And that includes Ms. Dr Sue Black, mentioned above. I bet.

nyssssa
nyssssa

It makes more sense to ask women who choose other professional fields than men who chose IT.

figmo
figmo

Back in the 1980s, the US had something called "Affirmative Action" where employers were forced to discriminate against more qualified workers in favor of women and minorities. When a lesser qualified woman or minority candidate was hired because of this, the term used for them was "Affirmative Action Special." They usually didn't last long at whatever job they got because they were often underqualified. It was just as bad for the person who was hired over more qualified candidates. You were put in a position you weren't qualified to do, and people resented you for it. I know all this firsthand because I *was* an Affirmative Action Special at one company and had to work with them at others.

JBrown10
JBrown10

Lots of women are "geeks" -- doesn't mean they want to work in IT. Women are still the primary care givers..if you are dealing with kids and aging parents, IT doesn't provide the stability, and regular hours a woman needs to deal with her life. When guys take on more child care and elderly parent care, home care -- and there is a shift in the general population - more women will probably go into IT. Personally, I've seen a real shift in society, and as the responsibilities of both genders are shared - more women will start stepping into more traditional male jobs. No quota system is going to force more women to go take STEM courses, or except a job working nights/weekends. At least in nursing you get paid for your overtime, instead of - yeah you are on salary and will just work as long as needed. After all if you are working weird hours, you are paying high babysitting rates, and it is not worth it if you are on salary. As a single mom, when on call, I'd either bring the baby to the server room - or send the babysitting bill to my management (3am calls, need to go in, and I have a baby.... can't see why the job is an issue to women) Not all management is that flexible. Also the more women your shop has, usually the more women are willing to work for your shop...catch 22, no women, it is hard to hire any. They look around and notice the abesence of other women.

clwood4457
clwood4457

while the quota does not sound like a good thing. I can say that it worked for me to get my first job and prove to the employer. Sometimes being female it is hard to get in the door since it is a male dominated field and the people hiring have not quite gotten to the comfort of women in the IT field

highlander718
highlander718

It's only natural. There are more women in primary education, there are more women working as nurses .... there are simply jobs that are more natural to women and others that come more naturaly to men.

geekgal2
geekgal2

I am in my late 40's and have been employed as a "geek" since 1998. However, I have been into computers since the Commodore 64! (yes, about 1983). I had a boyfriend who was very much into computers especially the TRS 80. I credit him for my success in IT. I absolutely love being a Sys Admin. I love figuring out how to fix things. I guess it is just my nature. I agree with the guys that there shouldn't be quotas or anything else trying to force women into work they may not enjoy. My one big pet peeve about being a woman in IT is that I don't feel like I get the same respect as the guys. I've even had people say to me "can we get a tech to fix it?" WHAT??? I AM the tech! So if anything needs to be dealt with its the reality that women CAN be good at being geeky. We do have the knowledge and the smarts to get the job done. Personally I actually like being one of very few women in this industry. I don't have to deal with the drama that women bring to the work place.

elleno
elleno

I spent my entire career in IT eventually managing large IT departments and never once did my colleagues or I ever stop to consider whether we were hiring male or female candidates. The question was always: can this IT worker do the job and will they fit into our environment. Sometimes the best person(s) was a man; sometimes it was a woman. Salaries were inevitably negotiated by HR and followed a standard structure. There was no 'salary discrimination.' When I think back over the best developers / project managers / architects / network specialists/ web designers / managers I knew and employed maybe thirty percent or so were women. (The disparity is because fewer of them take up an IT career.) Indeed there are two that I can think of in the top 1%. The article and the whole concept of 'women in IT' is insulting to IT women and IT workers in general who, I argue, are a pretty fair minded lot. These silly articles are simply a journalists attempt to drum up controversy which I am sure irritates many IT readers.

LindseySchollard
LindseySchollard

I would also be offended if I were hired based on gender. My advice to lawmakers would be to start offering incentives for women to get into the IT field of study. Not to enforce quotas. Companies should have the freedom to select the best candidate for the job from a wide and diverse pool.

dreammelody
dreammelody

In my opinion there is no need for a quota, because its not going to make a huge difference first off, on the amount of woman in the IT field. Granted, I think it will bring some type of awareness and possibly encourage some woman to think about getting into the IT field, but its not a guarantee and or a solution like others have stated to balance the woman to man ratio out in IT. Being a woman in the IT field and working in it for over the past 10 years, I find that a fair amount of woman lack the interest in the IT field. Its just not their forte or they don't have the desire to pursue a career in IT. I agree with someones statement that in the next 10 - 15 years we are going to see an influx of woman in IT. I feel its because we are moving towards a society that completely rely's on technology and we can not ignore that fact. It will then become a necessity to understand technology and gain an interest in it. Especially, if you want to be employed. In closing, there is one change I think could help encourage more woman to join the IT field and that is the pay scale needs to change. Woman should get paid what a man gets paid doing the same job. But that's another topic.

dhearne
dhearne

If more women want to be in IT, then they need to put forth the effort to do so. It is not incumbent upon anyone else to 'encourage' women to do anything. There is no 'encouragement' for men to be in IT, but yet we are involved. Why do people feel that women need special assistance? As Nate said above, correlation does not imply causation. A simple lesson that needs to be learned by both the HR industry a special interest groups of all stripes. How about we let the people who want to be in IT, be in IT and be done with it?

sng - TX
sng - TX

As a woman, I have worked, and still work, in IT for over 40 years. A career in IT always allowed me to make decent money. Yes, I have been through lay-offs and downturns, but I survived because I was able to save during the good times AND because I always kept my skills tuned and multiple certifications current. For women who are nerds or geeks or otherwise have the temperament, skills and desires, this should be a great recruiting tool. This should be part of 'promoting women in IT'.

Teufelhund
Teufelhund

it is my recollection that there were very few women in the classes - usually only one or two in a class of 20 or so. Could it be that most young women (or women of any age) aren't interested in jobs in Information Technology?

itsnotlevel
itsnotlevel

They need to take a more best practice approach rather than a quota approach. A quota approach will make people resent their female co-workers, rather than doing what most retailers and/or businesses do, is hiring based on the general population within the geographical boundaries of the company's location. I think we should have more females in the industry, it makes things more rounded in the work place, just like hiring different races I believe helps make the work place more well rounded. All this coming from a middle income, mid-life white guy with no kids and no wife and straight......think that's too much information, well....its just saying my opinion comes from a person with the most to "lose" with all this being implemented.

Adam_12345
Adam_12345

It is hard for me to give an opinion on this topic but when I was for a short while at IT studies at one of the technical universities there where maybe 5 women for 40-50 students on one year. The point is that men and women are different and still it is difficult to see a woman who enjoys sitting at the computer and types some code on the screen. I don't know where is the reason but the more I talk with some girls who were on IT studies I got an impression that they were slowly getting bored with all that stuff. On the other hand, I see in my country that women chose other subject,courses etc such as production management. The reason might be in the way a man and a woman sees the complexity of a matter. Men see a problem in a more direct way staying focus on one thing and trying to understand a subject,problem thoroughly. Women tend to see many problems and they try to deal with many problems at the same time. All this might be based on biological prerequisites and it doesn't mean that any of the parties is worse or better.

ddraigddrwg
ddraigddrwg

...which is why there are more guys in IT than women, and I'd guess (not actually looked at the official stats) that would be why there are more females in nursing. The same is true for differing personality types So why do people feel the need to create and artificial sense of "equality" by wanting to ensure that there's a 50/50 split? If more women want a career in IT - great! But attract them through education and motivation - not legislation!

tanernew
tanernew

Historically, it is the responsibility of man to earn money. So men are always under pressure to work and earn money. Even if you don't like some job but if it is the only option then you should work. Sometimes you don't have so much options. But women generally prefer better jobs and if they don't like it they don't accept it and don't work. That's all. Women don't like IT because you can be called in the middle of your dreams because of a simple system component failure. If you're on the development side then long nights and weekends with overtime waits for you. I remember at some time police department said "our men are working in very bad conditions but I can not send women to everywhere. Most of them are not strong enough for long and heavy duties. And of course for each pregnancy our jobs must be replanned again and again. Our offices are full of women and I do not want more". Let's be honest. Women are not Xena. Generally they are not forced like us to work under any condition. They can "choise" which is a very important factor. Do not be mistaken by the exceptional women who say very big things and seem like a warrior princess. In real life there are not so much of them. So if you don't give positive discrimination then you can not get work balance. But if our aim is quality then this can not be solved with adding women to the area. It's not about gender or race, it's all about knowledge, experience, performance. Also can I get the original requirement? Do we want to increase the number of IT workers, do we want to increase the software quality OR do we just need women? Is that all about it? What is the requirement?

premiertechnologist
premiertechnologist

Those who are competent and want to do the job should be chosen without bias. We've tried Comparable Worth in government agencies in the United States with less than the best success -- paying secretaries the same as truck drivers creates an artificial balance not supported by world markets and may have been a (small) factor in outsourcing as we price our labor force out of jobs. There should be equal pay for equal competence for equivalent careers with no bias at all. The problem comes when management defines competence.

weeshaus
weeshaus

...but I wouldn't say that it isn't a problem, either. I'm a female network engineer, and while I love my job and what I do, the environment sometimes leaves something to be desired. I think male-dominated fields can often be unappealing for women, cause let's face it, we are different from men and a lot of times to succeed in those fields and be taken seriously, women have to sacrifice their femininity and act like "one of the guys." Which is too bad because I think the "feminine" perspective is valuable and could do a lot to improve the industry. That's where the focus needs to be, not "hire X amount of women" but look at what qualities women bring to the table and see them as assets, not liabilities. That also requires us women who are in the field to be true to ourselves and show that we may be different from the men on occasion but that is a good thing. Diversity in general is a good thing, more perspectives mean more ideas and solutions.

OurITLady
OurITLady

or at least proven experience? I'm trying a career change as well, I've been sending out resumes to lots of vacancies - no rejection letters for me because I'm not even getting interviews. However I don't put it down to the fact I'm female, I put it down to the fact that I'm competing against fresh grads 20 years younger than me who employers see as cheaper, and the fact that I have zero practical experience in the field whereas those new grads out of fulltime school may at least have an internship under their belt. I am trying another STEM field so the competition is mostly male, the problem is I am retraining through distance learning while holding down a full time job, little opportunity to get practical experience when you still have to pay the mortgage.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

of the bloated garbage we see so much of now days.

coolaid09
coolaid09

It's also natural to want to sit at home all day and watch football. The whole thing about men's jobs being different from women's jobs (unless they involve physical strength) is old.

coolaid09
coolaid09

Your post is interesting: You point out that people assume you aren't a tech because you're a woman. But then you say you're happy to be one of the few women around because you don't want to deal with drama. I think I understand what you mean about drama. But then, because we don't want to deal with someone who we think is a drama queen, or maybe seems to be too judgmental about everything, do we also discriminate against them? Or is it the idea of being threatened? I was appalled when a female coworker - someone who should have known better - sent an email to my male coworkers asking them to analyze something that I already looked at. And one of the guys was less technical than I. And other women have gone directly to a male coworker for help even though what they were asking for wasn't his responsibility. Maybe they thought I was his secretary? Or do a lot of women just secretly hate each other?

OurITLady
OurITLady

yesterday, and I've been in IT almost 20 years. A tech turned up to fix a printer, the owner of the printer introduced him to me so he'd know where I was, then he turned around and asked if they had an IT person he could speak to! Never had anything like that happen before, and I confess after watching 30 mins of watching him repeat the same troubleshooting I'd done before calling him, to come to the same conclusion and order the part required (the one mentioned when the repair call was made) I wasn't too upset he didn't get the connection between me and IT - was only surprised he was making a living as any form of tech himself.

mudpuppy1
mudpuppy1

an attempt to stay employed and to seem relevant.

eaglewolf
eaglewolf

First, getting 'lawmakers' involved in anything dooms it to failure! Then, consider that 'incentives' are just another form of discrimination. It's an indirect quota system.

coolaid09
coolaid09

If your high school math teachers happen to not be too great, and your algebra grades aren't the best, there's an assumption that you shouldn't be involved in computer science. I didn't see it as an option for this reason. It wasn't until I was in my senior year of college that I started to realize that a better path was available.

coolaid09
coolaid09

Not all women are married, and even those who are still need to work in this day and age. And we don't all want to have children. I've worked extra hours and stayed up all night for - to help another woman push her web site live. And I'm more than happy to sit in front of a computer and code. Or to help someone understand something I already know. Are these "big things" to you? I'm not at all in favor of quotas. However, there seems to be unwritten rules about women. Don't hire us unless we're pretty. Don't be yourself around us - assume we live in a bubble. And assume that we're all somehow less logical than a man. I applied and was accepted for a job that involved more programming than I had previously done. However, a male coworker also applied for the same job. After I accepted the job, some male coworkers started being passive aggressive and less than helpful. Later, I learned that one of them was setting up the one who applied for the same job so that he'd have extra experience that wouldn't have been available anywhere else. So, if this is really about who you know, does that mean that men everywhere are setting up their friends to have advantages? If you're female, and you want a technical role, and there are no women you can befriend, I guess you're screwed.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

seek to work as primary or grade school teachers and nurses, or other predominately female work areas.

highlander718
highlander718

I mean sitting in front of TV all day. It might be old, but is still valid, just look around. Else why would we even discuss the subject here ?

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

surprised how many men work as professional cleaners - but it's all a matter of personal attitudes for any job. I could go on about how many women help gut beef critters at the abattoir, some do and some don't.

jsargent
jsargent

A man will never stick his hand down a toilet to clean it, so how many office and home cleaners are men? Most men will never collect the vomit from someone. It's amazing that women are supposed to be the weaker sex but my wife and my daughter never gag when something horrible happens even though they hate to see it or smell it. I myself could throw up quite easily or wouldn't dare clean up after anyone. Women get the work done regardless of whether a man wants to do it. My point is that men get to choose what they do regardless of their qualifications. If you talk about games involving various sizes of balls you will go up in the command chain. Of-course we all know that the more expensive the game is the smaller their balls become ;)