Laptops

Has Lenovo ruined the ThinkPad?

When IBM created the ThinkPad line in the 90s, they set the gold standard for quality in notebook computers. In 2005, IBM exited the PC business and sold off its desktop and laptop lines to Lenovo. Is the ThinkPad still the standard or has it gone downhill?

When IBM created the ThinkPad line in the 90s, they set the gold standard for quality in notebook computers. In 2005, IBM exited the PC business and sold off its desktop and laptop lines to Lenovo. Is the ThinkPad still the standard or has it gone downhill?

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When IBM first introduced the portable PC, it was little more than a luggable unit like the Osbourne 1. It then went on to create some laptop PCs, but it wasn't until they created the ThinkPad line in 1992 that IBM became a force to be reckoned with. IBM ThinkPads pretty much set the standard for laptops in the 90s and into the early twenty-first century.

Even though IBM was mired in third place behind Dell and HP for market share for years, the ThinkPad line continued to shine, especially in the business place. Ultimately, however, IBM decided to exit the desktop and laptop market, selling its business to Lenovo in 2005. Lenovo got the rights to the ThinkPad name and was even allowed to use the IBM logo.

The question is, however, even though the ThinkPad name remains, are they STILL the same solid ThinkPads that had such a reputation? I'm not sure.

The long and winding road to Lenovo

IBM shipped the first ThinkPad 700s back in 1992. They were all 486-based laptops running Windows 3.1. Among the innovations in the ThinkPad line were the first TFT (thin film transistor) LCD screen and the TrackPoint pointing device. ThinkPads were also famous for their sleek black cases and near-perfect keyboards. The first ThinkPad weighed 6.5 pounds and cost $4,350, which is over $6,350 in today's money.

While IBM was creating the ThinkPad, there was a little company in China called Legend that was manufacturing PCs of its own. According to the Lenovo company history, Legend began as a company creating Chinese character cards and launched its first PC in 1990. By 1998, Legend had sold over a million PCs. Legend would go on to become Lenovo.

When the twenty-first century started, IBM was in a bit of a financial malaise. To help boost the bottom line, IBM decided to outsource production of the NetVista line of desktop in 2002. It did so to a company called Sanmina-SCI under a three-year, $5-billion agreement. In 2003, IBM followed up by signing a deal to outsource production of its server line to the same company. As you can see in both articles, IBM said that they would not outsource production of the ThinkPad, but rather keep them in-house.

That didn't last very long however. In 2004, IBM agreed to sell part of its laptop arm to Chinese manufacturer Hon Hai Precsion. Hon Hai was already the second-largest OEM of laptops in the world, manufacturing laptops to several companies including Lenovo.

Finally, in 2005, IBM had enough and decided to sell its entire PC line, including the ThinkPad, to Lenovo. Just this year, Lenovo bought Sanmina-SCI, completely solidifying its purchase of the former IBM PC line.

Along with the business, Lenovo purchased the right to use IBM's name for five years after the deal. Lenovo jettisoned the IBM name as soon as it could and stuck with the Think brand as the flagship product. It continues to sell the ThinkPad, ThinkCentre, and now the ThinkServer.

See the difference

You can see the difference in production over time by checking the stickers on the back of the 1995 ThinkPad 701C, which we just did a Cracking Open Photo gallery, compared to a 2004 ThinkPad T42 used by TechRepublic Editor Bill Detwiler.

The 701C clearly shows that the unit is made in Mexico BY IBM:

Alternatively, the T42 is made in China FOR IBM:

The semantic difference shows over time how IBM was slowly moving away from production of its own machines.

The downward spiral of the ThinkPad

The original ThinkPads seemed to be very solid machines. I always loved the keyboard in particular and the speed of the machine. But even as early as 2006, I started to notice a problem when we first reviewed the Lenovo Thinkpad Tablet PC:

If there are any areas I could complain about there would be two: One

is around the vaunted ThinkPad keyboard and the other is around the

infamous TrackPoint. ThinkPad keyboards are still in a league by

themselves, but my poor Lenovo has a mushy spot around the arrow keys. Maybe it’s broken underneath, but it just doesn’t feel the same as the rest of the keys.

As for the TrackPoint, it seems to have fits whenever the hard drive is

running a lot. If you try to load several programs at the same time,

the TrackPoint jumps randomly and sometimes starts additional programs. I’ve seen on Usenet where this appears to be a common occurrence, but noone seems to have suggestion that works to fix it.

Subsequent ThinkPads I've seen don't seem to have the same fit and finish on the case, and the keyboards don't have the same feel. TechRepublic members in the past have had issues with Lenovo products as well, including shoddy service and support.

What do you think?

When people used to ask me what kind of a laptop to buy, I always used to recommend IBM ThinkPads hands down, if they could afford them. When I recently bought my own laptop, I went with an HP Pavillion. The ThinkPads just seem to have lost some luster to me.

Has Lenovo destroyed the ThinkPad line? Take the poll below and sound off in the Comment section.

97 comments
imacamera
imacamera

The classic Thinkpads are just as good, don't know about newer models. In progression of X line, fantastic machines with sturdy magnesium bodies and full size keyboards. I have had both an HP and MSI burn out motherboards in past three years, but my Thinkpads always reliable. Currently using an x200 which is very fast. The X230 pretty much the same but with slightly different key shapes (still full size). Now have added an ssd drive and 8gb of ram (although specs say can only handle 4 gb). Far superior to any other laptop I have ever owned. Imagine progression of T models is similar. If model is a progression of the classic machines originally IBM, can't be beat.

strongline
strongline

8 years after the taking over, 4 years after this article written, Lenovo-produced latops/desktops are still a major brand that businesses trust. Or, I dare to say, the most trusted.

smilesuquan
smilesuquan

Of course it's not ruined the Thinkpad,Lenovo give the Thinkpad much more value including Much more innovation/much more serviceability/Better quality.

rgorman
rgorman

John, I am Ray Gorman, executive director, external communications, Lenovo. Your story has recently been brought to my attention, and nowhere does it say that Lenovo employees may not vote. I mean, where's the love for Lenovo employees? I believe ThinkPads are just as good as ever and voted accordingly. Although I suspect there are other Lenovo employees who have voted in this forum, I would wager that you have also attracted voters who are employees of our competitors. While in either case, it's fairly predictable how each would vote, the interesting fact is that there are really only two notebook PC brands that have their own fan forums and passionate enthusiasts. I'm pretty confident declaring that ThinkPad is one of those two. For example, when we did an online poll three years ago asking users about changing the color of ThinkPad, we received over two million responses worldwide. That's a lot of passion and a lot of eyeballs watching our every move with ThinkPad, and a lot more votes than we expected. Black won easily. In the later stages, IBM was not interested in the PC business and invested in R&D accordingly. Lenovo is extremely interested in the PC business, and is investing in R&D accordingly. ThinkPad is known for exceptional enginering, and I want to assure your readers that we continue to burn the midnight oil in our R&D centers in Yamato, Raleigh and Beijing, to make ThinkPad better than ever. While BusinessWeek's "Building the Perfect Laptop" cover story about ThinkPad X300 earlier this year made us very proud, what it really did was set the bar even higher, and we aim for that bar every day. Thanks.

rgorman
rgorman

John, I am Ray Gorman, executive director, external communications, Lenovo. Your story has recently been brought to my attention, and nowhere does it say that Lenovo employees may not vote. I mean, where's the love for Lenovo employees? I believe ThinkPads are just as good as ever and voted accordingly. Although I suspect there are other Lenovo employees who have voted in this forum, I would wager that you have also attracted voters who are employees of our competitors. While in either case, it's fairly predictable how each would vote, the interesting fact is that there are really only two notebook PC brands that have their own fan forums and passionate enthusiasts. I'm pretty confident declaring that ThinkPad is one of those two. When we did an online poll three years ago asking users about changing the color of ThinkPad, we received over two million responses worldwide. That's a lot of passion and a lot of eyeballs watching our every move with ThinkPad, and a lot more votes than we expected. Black won easily. In the later stages, IBM was not interested in the PC business and invested in R&D accordingly. Lenovo is extremely interested in the PC business, and is investing in R&D accordingly. ThinkPad is known for exceptional enginering, and I want to assure your readers that we continue to burn the midnight oil in our R&D centers in Yamato, Raleigh and Beijing, to make ThinkPad better than ever. While BusinessWeek's "Building the Perfect Laptop" cover story about ThinkPad X300 earlier this year made us very proud, what it really did was set the bar even higher, and we aim for that bar every day. Thanks.

jl03276
jl03276

No, they???re just as good as ever.

dhamilt01
dhamilt01

Yar darn tootin' it has! But not the hardware. It's the tons and tons of Lenovo StinkVantage crapware that really does the system in. 20 minutes to boot up and the hard disk light to stop flashing. No, it's not Defender. No, it's not a backup. It's all that crapware. And just try deleting pieces ya think ya don't need or the whole dang mess of StinkVantage software and watch what happens to Vista(32). Can you spell dead computer boys and girls. Time for a complete rebuild. But wait! There's more! When ya finally get it running again, it's NOT the same as when ya first powered it on. No more biometrics for example. God damn Lenovo!

mandms7
mandms7

I purchased a Thinkpad T61 earlier this year after getting what I thought was a pretty good deal on a "superior" laptop. My first warning sign that things were not the same was the incredibly unprofessional, rude, and discourteous representatives I spoke with on the phone from their sales department. It had been quite a number of years since I had received such poor service as I did from the individuals answering the phone. And if there sales department was that bad, I can only imagine what their support department must be like. When I finally did order and receive my laptop, the first thing I noticed was a mushy left palm rest right below the keyboard. Anytime I put any pressure on it the plastic flexes and feels like something is missing underneath. The other thing I was REALLY disappointed about, especially considering it was one of the primary reasons I got the Lenovo, was the TrackPoint. It is just so incredibly stiff, regardless of the sensitivity setting of the TrackPoint software. The trackpoints on Dell laptops are so much easier and faster to use. Oh well, I guess I know to go Dell the next round.

tkeller
tkeller

Has been decent. I never had one of the original ThinkPads, so I can't really judge relative quality. I've had my Z60t for about 2 years, and in that time my only problem was a battery failure, which they replaced in less than two days. I was a bit miffed that I found out about the program to check the battery and submit a replacement request only after extensive searching of the support site - they did not make it very obvious. And the battery is a bit loose when installed, it wiggles around a bit. The plastic of the case seems a bit flexible in places, but the underlying metal cage is impressive. And I love the keyboard. Feels good and I can find keys without looking. Way better than HPs, Dells or Compaqs I've tried. And though I prefer a mouse, I can at least get by with the little trackpoint eraser head. (I have the touchpad disabled) The Z60t was a fairly low-end model, but I like it. It's about time for an upgrade, and I'm leaning toward one of the higher-end models, with a 3 year warranty. As another poster mentioned, it is likely that Lenovo is building for all market segments, and the higher market is likely higher quality. And in the comparison of a new model with one from 10 or 15 years ago, it is not surprising to see a trend toward thinner, lighter, cheaper construction. IBM itself may well have gone that way, had they kept the line in-house. I've read some good reviews, and I'm hoping that Lenovo upholds the quality they inherited. Time will tell.

techbuzzard
techbuzzard

Ruined? Not hardly. The systems you talk about seem to be from a time when the ThinkPads were solid, like a brick, and weighed as much. No doubt the bottom line is always a factor and the effort to reduce costs *can* result in inferior quality but also the drive to reduce weight can have the unintended result of changing the feel of a machine. Lenovo has retained many of the innovations of the orginal ThinkPads and with any luck with continue to develop new ones but only time will tell. I own a couple of laptops, one from the IBM era and one from the Lenovo era and I very much enjoy them both. To date the only issue I've had is the battery on the Lenovo system which their customer service replaced immediately and have had no issues since. Right now I believe they are on track to uphold the ThinkPad quality, but time will tell. I understand the amusement you find in the new members all coming on at once, but any blog is likely to draw new members who finally feel the need to post based on a certain article, it's how I first joined. To comment after each new members post seems a little much though...

martili
martili

Yes!! I have a Lenovo Tablet and it is very finicky about being used a tablet when booting. Often the keyboard will not work and will require a hard restart. Really liked the old ThinkPads (circa 2001)

don.gulledge
don.gulledge

As many may know, Illinois did a master contract with EDS for lenova laptops. I've had them in operation for three years under the original lease agreements. To date, I've not had one fail and they get some pretty ruggid treatment from our field staff. If I had one thing I could say I don't like is the smaller screen and higher pixel resolutions they have on some models (R61i). But, as far as usability I've found them to equate or be better than other brand models. This isn't a plug for them but just my findings on them them. They do seem to be a little dated in technology, just behind the competition.

spreston
spreston

No they have not. Be sides they have the best tech support of any computer company that I had to deal with. They don't give youu a hassle in trying to replace a part. And besides when you talk to tech support you are routed to Alanta, Ga.

yong.peng7
yong.peng7

No, they???re just as good as ever

paragjain_75
paragjain_75

I don't see a difference,i have been using a thinkpad for more than 7 years - Parag, paragjain_75@yahoo.com

franklin_guo
franklin_guo

ThinkPad is always the ThinkPad,the Best PC in the world.

mhguan7910
mhguan7910

No,Thinkpad performance now is as good as before

ssk04
ssk04

No, it is as good as what it used to be before.

monsalbus
monsalbus

About time someone wrote an article about this. I also have been recommending IBM/Lenovo for many years and the very clear slide in quality of the line has made my job more difficult. I hate the fact that when a client looks to me with confidence the reflex of "IBM" has to be suppressed. After spending time enormous amounts of time researching (and using) other potential options (other than Lenovo) I have decided that my best bet lies with ASUS notebooks. Unfortunately I do miss the quality of the IBM Thinkpad T and X lines!

wes
wes

The design, quality and performance of the entire notebook industry has improved over the years.. and ThinkPad continues to lead the way. ThinkPad quality is significantly better and Lenovo is 100% dedicated to maintain this leadership

kudileep2
kudileep2

NO ,Lenovo Think pad will never get down. Its is best among all think pad

simha.c
simha.c

Guys, IBM's focus was never the PC verticle. However, they created the notebook which was the best in terms of the robustness and the superb corporate as well as individual material. Since I am Lenovo notebook user(T60), I would say, that Lenovo has taken a lot of efforts in the product betterment and of course, they have been successful. Extremely happy with the machine and am sure they have such great products coming more into the market.

sachusethi
sachusethi

Absolutely not.. I think Lenovo has done good job in keeping up the IBM tradional brand.. Over time Lenovo has added potential features to Thinkpad which has infact improved Thinkpad image... Thinkpad is absolutely above all notebooks in the market..

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

I haven't seen a Lenovo in any business for a very long time now. Lots of Dells, HP's and so on even a couple of Apples but no more Lenovo's. The business who what a tough NB are using Panasonic ToughBooks which are very nice thank you very much but no Lenovo's. ;) Col

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

When did this happen? [i]Lenovo give the Thinkpad much more value[/i] Lenovo made it cheaper and on par with Dell's HP's and so on but that is hardly making it better. [i]Much more innovation[/i] Care to explain this one for us Non True Believers of the Sales Boucher? [i]much more serviceability[/i] When and how when IBM was making these things they where Brilliant now they are merely good. [i]Better quality[/i] ??? I have to completely disagree here the Quality of the IBM units was beyond reproach so how did Lenovo make them better? Col

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

I thought I'd do a quick fact check and confirm if it was just Suse that was available with Lenovo orders or what other software platforms where included: http://www.lenovo.com/planetwide/select/selector.html with IE6 is having an issue it seems as I'm getting: "??]?S??????? ??????(?? ??+??w???MG??XE?|" and similar for a page of raw text. It could be my end but I can't confirm from here. (not related to the notebooks or quality but it did stop me from confirming my facts.)

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

Outside of making product quality your primary concern of course. For me, it's knowing that I can get very good support from most modern distributions and BSDs if I purchase a thinkpad as the hardware platform. Being able to order from a selection of preinstalled OS adds to that in my case. Granted, you haven't a ruggedized machine that can compare to the Toughbook line but without the budget for a CF30, I'd be buying a ThinkPad before an Apple hardware platform even with the later allowing tripple boot. Hopefully I'll be placing a ThinkPad order within the next few months even. (unrelated sidenote wish): if you have guys that work with the BackTrack distribution specifically, I haven't yet seen the ThinkPad's wireless radio added to the supported hardware list. I know it's not due to Lenovo but I had to take a blind snapshot and mention it. As a network and security professional, that's a primary tool in my kit.

John Sheesley - TechRepublic Pro
John Sheesley - TechRepublic Pro

Perhaps calling out each individual new user was a bit much granted... but certainly this was not a flood of new 'innocent' users. You don't need to believe in black helicopters to see that something conspiratorial is going on. I had to stop anyway after a while because there were just too many of them. It just makes Lenovo look bad and it's too bad they can't recognize that.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

It asked was the Lenovo made Think Pad as good as the IBM made Think Pad. Performance is but one part of the equasion when you look at the overall package. Al you are achieving is to make the Lenovo Product look even worse than it actually is and drive potential customers to different products so this campaign of Lenovo Loving is really counter productive. But keep it up I'm sure that Lenovo's competition loves the actions of the True Believers and others who can see nothing wrong with the product that they are attempting to sell. :D Col

John Sheesley - TechRepublic Pro
John Sheesley - TechRepublic Pro

ssk04@... Job Role: Sales / Marketing / Business Development Location: Chennai, India Member since: 09/20/2008 Hmmm.... he must have gotten the memo a little late...

rishiatwal
rishiatwal

Thanks for information www.sagarinfotech.com

lopesdasilvaj
lopesdasilvaj

I think I can speak with some degree of authority about this subject, as the current owner of 3 ThinkPads. A litle background, if I may... For those old enough to remember, I have owned personal computers since the golden era of Commodore Vic-20 and Commodore 64!.. Had one of each. Then I bought my first 286, hard drive and all, a tremendous luxury for the time, even if so tiny... Ever improving, I also had 2 desktop Gateways. Then, for reasons arising from more work-related mobility, I bought in 2000 my first ThinkPad, an A21. It still lives, but out of respect for its seniority and only assign it sporadic and very light work. He deserves some rest. My second ThinkPad is an IBM T42, which I bought in 2004, still from the "hands" of IBM. It still goes kicking like a young horse! And finally, in December 2007 I made my last laptop acquisition, a Lenovo T61p. In my perspective, improvements, of course. But coming mainly ( if not exclusively ) from the advantage of speedier chips and ever refined technologies. Comparatively, though, the ThinkPad line has clearly been losing ground to its competitors since being acquired by Lenovo. The famous and exceedingly quality of the IBM customer service has gradually given way to a lackluster service, which makes a good match with the declining quality of the new ThinkPads themselves. Sorry. I wish it wasn't so, but there's no possible denying about this sad fact.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

I'm not stuck behind my IE6 limitation so I'm able to see the website. Just thought I'd post an update.

lost in Texas
lost in Texas

Lenovo employs at least one Troll firm in India. You see it everytime something negative is said about Lenovo. One time on the Yahoo IBM board a reference was made to the type personality Bill Amelio is, a description shared by everyone who has ever worked with him. Within an hour here came a typically Indian-phrased rebuttal from a poor troll who obviously has never been in the same city with Bill. Evidently Lenovo feels the need to employ trolls too dumb to plunk away at captchas to protect its world-wide reputation.

jcurnutt
jcurnutt

I was an electronic tech for 26 yrs., and am finishing an MS in ComputerSci. A year ago I replaced my DELL C840 laptop (a much beloved tank that weighs almost 10 lbs w/ 2 batteries) with a Lenovo X60 ultra light. I bought it used/off lease/refurbished with a 3 year warranty. That would have avoided the quality control issues mentioned earlier. I have not had any problems with the Lenovo itself, however Wen I ordered a new docking station and a new low profile optical drive for the docking station, both came in defective... the drive was completely DOA & wouldn't even open with a paperclip- the second drive worked fine. The docking station didn't have the keys for the security lock- after months trying to get Lenovo to replace the docking station (which worked fine), the retailer finally replaced out of their stock. I have the X60 set up with a dual boot WinXP/SUSE 10, after resolving the issues I mentioned, the Lenovo has worked very well and is much more portable that the Dell C840. I might mention also that with the 8 cell battery, I get 5+ hours of battery operation. The 12" screen is kind of small but worth it for the weigh tradeout. (I use a 19" external lcd at home.) On the whole, I am very pleased with the Lenovo X60, but I also avoided the 20% failure issue with new epuipment by buying a refubished offlease laptop.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

Since Lenovo has bought the IBM Range of NB's the ThinkPad is certainly not what it used to be. I just love the way that Lenovo say that they improved it to be a Straight Clone of every other NB on the market by fitting a Faster CPU and more RAM. As if that is something special particularly when the had to use this bits as the Old Bits where no longer available. :D I have a couple of 50 MEG HDD here somewhere but back in the days when I bought my first PC I demanded a 500 MEG HDD which the salesperson didn't want to sell to me because they only had the one and 100 Meg was more than big enough as that was what they sold to everyone. Then add the 128 MEG of RAM to a SX100 486 in a Full Tower Case and it was too powerful and could never be fully utilized, well at least according the the guy trying to sell me something less. When that died many years latter I had fitted a Promise Tech IDE Card and had a Whopping 4 GIG HDD well 3 of them actually and with DR DOS 6 Loaded Windows 3.11 ran almost like M$ claimed it should. :^0 Of course moving from the Main Frame side of the Business to using a PC was a Big Step in the wrong direction but the Company did give use Portables from when the first became available. Though we didn't have any use for them at that time I think that they wanted their Techs to carry those old monsters around and Show Them Off. Latter when we got the Think Pads they where interesting and what made me look seriously at PCs. Col

John Sheesley - TechRepublic Pro
John Sheesley - TechRepublic Pro

You got it completely correct. I never said that Lenovo ThinkPads were crappy. I merely stated that they were not the same as the IBM ThinkPads of old. They are, just as you said, decent machines in the same league as Dell, HP, and others. Sad to say, but that's not because the other units improved. It's not much different than the Cadillacs and Lincolns of old compared to the ones today that are little more than Chevys and Fords with a different grill and nothing else.

John Sheesley - TechRepublic Pro
John Sheesley - TechRepublic Pro

Yet another BRAND NEW member heard from the Marketing and Sales department: rocky6oct@... Job Role: Sales / Marketing / Business Development Location: Bangalore, India Member since: 09/21/2008

Only if you ask nicely
Only if you ask nicely

First I would like to thank you John for bringing this topic up. I am sure that anyone who looks at quality in an item would share your observations. I would also like to thank HAL for his excellent assertions. If it wasn't for the clear difference in quality between the ThinkPads made under the IBM name and ones made under Lenovo, maybe this article would not have been started. It is also clear that whatever opinion is given here, that the person has a passion to the ThinkPad in that he/she is devoting time to read and respond to the blog. Excluding my personal experience, professionally I have been a ThinkPad user for the past ten years. I have also used Compaqs back when they were real Compaqs and also tried Dell. I would never touch HP before and that is why I don?t have any experience with them. I am currently typing this on a ThinkPad T43 and can say hands down it is a real workhorse and has endured a lot of beating and hard lugging. When I look at my colleagues' new T61's and the problems they have with them, I have refused to upgrade. One thing I would like to add is that my T43 was also made in china by some company for Lenovo but it was still under the IBM quality control. This proves that being manufactured in China is not necessarily a bad thing. It is when a company starts to cut corners that quality starts to slip and I think that is what has happened here. Some things that I have noticed: 1. The keyboards have a different feel and are not as accurate or comfortable as before. 2. The batteries are loose and wobble when carried around. 3. The plastic feels cheap. 4. The chassis does not feel as sturdy as before. 5. The dual core T61s feel slower than my single core T43 I could go on :) Just my two cents?

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

Sorry but I very much doubt your assertions here. As you come across as Bigoted by your post above. At no point did the author say that because something is made in China it's bad quite the reverse actually and if you had of bothered to actually open your eyes and look he says the same thing right at the beginning of this thread again. If you chose to read something one way it is more a reflection on you and your inability to look and comprehend. As for using think Pads both Old & New you can not honestly say what you have above. You may have used the Old Think Pad being the first model that was sold by Lenovo but you couldn't have used the Old Think Pads and the new ones and still honestly say what you are. The new ones are not in the same class as the Old Ones Pure and Simple. Doesn't matter where they are made doesn't matter that they work quite well which they do incidentally what you are confusing there is the fact that the Overall Finish and Feel of the Product has changed. Doesn't matter what else it's different pure & simple. But as you are so outspoken perhaps you would care to repeat a Demonstration performed by a IBM Rep where he dropped his T40 from the first floor onto concrete running. It was still working without any problems. I defy a standard Lenovo to survive that treatment. The IBM's though would handle it quite happily. That is the difference that is being discussed here not where it is made it is the quality of the product as apposed to how well it works there is a difference which the Lenovo True Believers will never comprehend. Lenovo make a good product but it's not a IBM Product that is the difference being talked about here and there are not that many differences being introduced to the product now that make it stand out dramatically from the older IBM Supplied Think Pads. Lenovo has taken a Excellent Market Leader and turned it into a Also Ran a very good also ran but none the less a Also Ran. They are increasing Market Share not because they offer a Superior product but because they are attempting to compete with the likes of Dell, HP and so on. You can never have Engineers and Accountants work together and produce a Superior Product you get exactly what the Accountants want better profits for less money spent making the unit. If you are saying that it is possible to Produce the Best at a Bargain Basement Price I need a lot of what it is you are snorting as I would like to get away from the rubbish that I am forced to work with. :D Col

rocky6oct
rocky6oct

If you are trying to de-grade a brand in your so called "Discussions", people who are passionate about it will revolt. Have you ever re-visited any Lenovo Store & asked a question about the new innovations that are featured in the New ThinkPad..???? Is just being "Made in China" degrading the quality of a Product..??? I think at least 50% of what you use daily & things you most trust on a regular day are "Made in China" or have some link somewhere with China. Japan & US are not the only countries who give quality produce. I have been an old ThinkPad user, and have used both the Old & the New. Lenovo has improved on quality from IBM days. Lenovo is not a marketing company like HP. They Design & Develop by their own. Do you're homework properly & then write something on Lenovo.. Go write something about the New Harley's, maybe you will get a similar feedback, from Harley fans....

John Sheesley - TechRepublic Pro
John Sheesley - TechRepublic Pro

I dont think it's necessarily a official Lenovo-sanctioned invasion, but there's certainly something afoot. It might be some rogue marketing arm or something that feels the need to rabidly defend even the hint of something bad about the company. Even so... I think it's rather transparent and insulting to TechRepublic members in general and editors specifically to try to pull something like that. I like dissent and discussion as much as the next person, but really - a dozen new members who ALL love Lenovo? All joining the same day? Almost entirely from India and almost entirely in sales? Please...

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