Windows

Does Vista have an image problem?


An article in the Inquirer says that Microsoft may be admitting their latest offering, Windows Vista isn’t the success they had hoped for (the Inquirer are calling Vista Windows ME 2!).  While Microsoft had apparently tried to make it very difficult for consumers to buy Windows XP or machines preloaded with Windows XP after the launch of Vista—Dell have announced that due to the high demand from customers they will again be offering home/consumer PC’s with Windows XP.  This move is a result of Dell’s ‘IdeaStorm’ project that asked customers for product ideas.

There are many opinions on why it seems consumers and businesses are reluctant to move away from XP and upgrade to Vista.  Some blame a lack of marketing saying that they see more ads for Apple’s OS X than for Vista.  Others suggest that people want to stick with XP ‘because it works’; patchy hardware and software support for Vista could be a deciding factor for many.

I wonder what will happen in January when Microsoft has said it will stop selling XP licences to large PC manufacturers and system builders one year later?  Is Windows Vista really doomed to follow in the footsteps of Windows ME which was avoided like the plague by most users in favour of the older Windows 98SE despite all of the claimed advances and benefits?  Maybe consumers are simply being cautious and waiting for the first service pack release before making the move?

108 comments
m.carr
m.carr

We are running Vista (enterprise) on a number of machines as a kind of pilot/test and have had no major issues. Most of our software works fine (even where support is not available), and we have not had trouble finding drivers for hardware. Changes in Internet Explorer and the security modifications that came with XPsp2 caused more problems. More interesting is the issues around the move to the 64 bit versions of the various Windows OSes.

Absolutely
Absolutely

Microsoft was at least 5 years late making the functionality in "Windows 95" [b]stable[/b] with Windows 2000(*), which is now at Service Pack [b]4[/b]! The market has really no use for any new features, only for those promised to work as advertised. (What ever happened to my standards? Windows 2000 reduced the number of Blue Screen crashes, but only by making CTRL+ALT+DEL actually interrupt running processes, which is what an interrupt key sequence [b]should[/b] have done in the first place! How in hell has this "industry standard product" flown anywhere other than into a fan?)

romar1
romar1

This is a reincarnation of another of Microsoft?s attempts to make everybody buy the supposed latest and greatest. If anybody remembers MSDOS 4.0 you will remember an OS that sucked up so much system resources that almost nothing could run on it and was replaced with MSDOS 5.0 within about 6 months after it?s release. I discussed this with a MCSE administrator who recently built a machine to Microsoft specs and it tested out as being Vista capable. After it took almost eight hours to install Vista Home Basic he stated that he will not run it on any of his network installations until Microsoft gets its act together. His comment was ?this is a nightmare compared to when Windows XP was released, I can?t afford spend hours to get a system running when customers are paying the bill and expecting results?.

doncobb
doncobb

Get real. ME was a last minute substitute for a real OS (that eventually became known as XP). Vista, with all of it version 0 release is much better, more stable, and more interesting then ME (or XP for that matter). I don't love Mr. Softie, I just recognize a better OS when I see one.

PapaWhiskey
PapaWhiskey

I recently ordered a Vista system for my boss, only to find out that Microsoft did away with the perfectly good XP backup utility that satisfied our needs. The new backup utility with Vista, as many of you know, doesn't allow backing up specific files. You are forced to backup files by file type, meaning you have to back up all the files of that type on your computer. That means huge backups. This will force us to purchase a third party backup utility at a cost of thousands of dollars for all our computers if we switch them to Vista. Well that ain't gonna happen, so we won't be migrating to Vista anytime soon. MS obviously wants users to users to buy into their online backup service, so they take away a perfectly good program so they can soak us for more money. MS is a very deceitful company.

frank.giannino
frank.giannino

I was forced to get Vista for my wife's laptop. I could get XP only if I bought one of Dell's older model PC's. Juiced up the machine to run Vista. One week later, couldn't print anything due to "Print Spooler Error". Dell spent 2 hours clicking the same buttons and asked to reinstall the OS. I said no thanks and installed my copy of XP Pro from the laptop we replaced. BTW... Take a look at Office 2007. It fails on all the points mentioned for Vista. Office 2000 and 2003 work fine. Office's new UI takes lots of relearning, but it does have a pretty ribbon! I have been a longtime Dell and Microsoft fan. No longer. Interesting Dell is losing ground to HP.

amj2010
amj2010

looking at other windows into's in history of ms, some are also bad received... but this time it's the hardware upgrade that's too steep do feel many... get another 1000 bucks to run the same stuff as before biznizz like? now way Gomesh, hasta la vista baby see you some time

ramnet
ramnet

Please give over on the marketing theory. Vista has been marketed to death. Bottom line clients don't like it , don't want it , will not pay for inferior product , it's way too slow like 50% or more , suffers code bloat , is restrictive in its use - too restrictive , changed the design from XP too much , requires users to re-learn we don't have time or money OK .. MS (when will you catch on guys) is not compatible with many main stream software products and driver support ordinary at best. For the 1st time customers are voting with their heels and their wallets no matter how MS spin it they have a dog on their hand until SP 1 arrives and it had better fix speed and performance (like ease of use issues in SP1) or VISTA WILL BECOME ME 2.There are too many VISTA versions 2 would have been enough VISTA Professional and VISTA Ultimate .. forget the rest waste of time and money. Ken McAvoy Director RAMNET Computing Melbourne , Australia.

golncor
golncor

MS began touting vista as the Be-All-Do-All OS and then started cutting the main features that made vista be that and do that. In the end, it ended up being a bloated piece of eye candy with little improvement over what was already available but requiring greater resources and having less compatibility. I agree with others calling this OS 'Windows ME 2' as it is bug ridden, driverless, and fails to deliver anything of value that would justify the cost. Dell says they will continue offering XP but only on basic low-end business machines, but support for it ends come Jan 2008. I would say the only reason users will eventually accept vista is because it is soon to be the only supported version available for a home computer.

willjamr
willjamr

No, some of the articles I have read indicate that Vista has some *real* problems.

NaughtyMonkey
NaughtyMonkey

Though it may fail in the end, I still feel that I must be proficient in it in case it turns out to be adopted at my company. I have Ultimate running on my laptop and my home PC just to get the feel of it and so I know about it if it comes down to pushing it out in my company. Also with my company being a software developer, we have to QA our software on it to make sure there are no problems. Goverment contractors that use our software that decide to move to it will not be happy if we have not tested it. So for me it is a necessary evil but it has only worked without a flaw on 10 of the 25 (all different)computers I have tested it on. Some of those being 3 -4 year old systems that needed a cheap video card and another 512 MB of memory. But personally, I have told all that ask me to hold off until at least SP1 as I always do.

georgeou
georgeou

Let's get something straight here; the author claimed that Vista was a failure, but Microsoft said no such thing. Furthermore, the author told me that Vista will do "OK" after all, and declined to wager any money on whether Vista will "fail" or not.

dennis.rhine
dennis.rhine

My personal policy is to not install anything from MS until they have released at least one service pack. Way too many issues with the first offering. As to others, a large company that I have worked with in the past simply refuses to allow anything new to be installed on the network until they have completely tested it against their suite of applications.

Fil0403
Fil0403

I still find it amazing how, nowadays, anyone who bashes MS refuses any kind of hating, but anyone who remotely doesn't bash a Microsoft product has to give proofs of not being a Microsoft fanboy. It's like you're a MS employee if you don't consider all their products a piece of junk. It's good to know you recognize a better OS when you see one (finally someone unbiased over here), it amazes me how some people know nothing about Vista and talk about they do. Vista is a great OS.

thumbknuckle
thumbknuckle

Articles I've been reading suggest that Dell may begin offering Linux as an OS for desktops. After working with Ubuntu for a couple of months, I'll bet this ups Dell sales a notch. (I'll become a Dell customer at that point.)

intrepi
intrepi

There is a lot that consumers put up with from hardware and software manufacturers which may be the reason I've never bought from Dell. I have, on several occasions, called Dell to buy a PC with no OS and they told me that they don't sell machines with no OS. This told me that they agreed to MS's strongarm terms with no regard to their buyers. They told me I could remove the OS which made me ask the question of why would I want to buy something I have to get rid of ? They had no answer so until they either find one or make their machines available with No OS or an OS of my choice, they can all have a nice day. If you can't buy what you want, then why would you want to buy it ? If it won't work or you can't get any guarantees it will work with your system, why would you want to spend a lot of money on something that may or may not work ? Something is very wrong with the way consumers are thinking, time to put this responsibility back in the hands of those responsible for it.

intrepi
intrepi

There is a lot that consumers put up with from hardware and software manufacturers which may be the reason I've never bought from Dell. I have, on several occasions, called Dell to buy a PC with no OS and they told me that they don't sell machines with no OS. This told me that they agreed to MS's strongarm terms with no regard to their buyers. They told me I could remove the OS which made me ask the question of why would I want to buy something I have to get rid of ? They had no answer so until they either find one or make their machines available with No OS or an OS of my choice, they can all have a nice day. If you can't buy what you want, then why would you want to buy it ?

viztor
viztor

Microsoft can compel computer makers to offer Vista and most buyers will accept it. The fun will come when the people who bought machines that support only Vista Crippled find they need/want to upgrade. Hello, linux!

onthego
onthego

bad design = elevated support and maintenance. I've developed good code over a good design. I've inherited bad design with good code. If you have good design, it always translates into minimal support and maintenance problems and if done correctly is extendible. Bad design always yields costly support and maintenance that never diminishes without a redesign. Most commercial developers base their business plan around a "good enough" design. After all, if the software has no problems, why would the customer pay for support or better yet, an upgrade???? For the bloat that is apparent in Vista, coupled with a long history of "can't get it right", why not a bottom up redesign with tomorrow in mind rather than a patched, repackaged, re-marketed product from yesterday? (I'm not sure an OS redesign would be financially successful at this point, in an age where the OS is becoming a commodity.)

allen
allen

Supplied a new machine with Vista Premium for a new client - big mistake. Couldn't install their version of Office onto the machine (even though MS support assured me that it was supported). Had all sorts of problems configuring & getting to work. Finally convinced the client to upgrade to Office 2007. Vista works like a dream with Office2k7. So if thats all you want to run then these are the products for you. If you need to add ANY other legacy software (Quickbooks in our case) then my advice: RUN AWAY FROM VISTA! The time you'll spend in tweaking installations, and the embarrasment you'll suffer from failed installations, will cause you and your profit margin more grief than its worth.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

businesses. The only other point being the great difficulty in getting Vista to play ball with non-Vista machines on the same network - many people report it doesn't like WinXP or Win2K systems, so you need to replace the whole network at once. Another major increase in cost many can't afford.

blue_mcoupe
blue_mcoupe

As my father used to say "The juice ain't wortth the squeeze!" I used the beta release for quite some time and I thought is was OK, but really, why? Why spend the time, effort, and money(!) for what boils down to looks? I have 4 PC's on my home network, and I don't really want to start over. XP is doing a bang up job.

Shrek187
Shrek187

Real problems like what. Describing them would help you make your point.

jaysona
jaysona

for an organization of any size what are you truly getting? the 10 items great items listed that would be a beneficial over xp can be done by 3rd party apps. at least 8 of them i know so why wait for sp1? when all you are doing is waiting for everyone in the market place to get drivers and support available for vista (aka windows ME 2 :-p) when xp works today. in terms of a business perspective how does a flashy gui add to the bottom line? if you want to talk about security hardening that can all be done at the server/perimeter level and group policies to strip away features and potential threats. if you have issues internally there are ways to control that as well. i'd say pass on vista and wait for windows XP 2 haha..

Keith Hailey
Keith Hailey

That's the way to do it! And that's the same recommendation that I give. I haven't used Vista yet but being new, I think it's getting the wrap for a lot of hardware issues, too. Issues that may have always been there but were never brought to light until Vista went to use those resouces the way they were "designed". Manufacturers can make claims but their product doesn't always know about those claims. And people love to play the blame game. With the most visible change being Vista, they'll pin the tail on that donkey. Take care and Good Luck. Keith

Freebird54
Freebird54

I severely doubt that Vista is going to be a failure. Yes, it is going to be slower in 'take up' than MS wanted, but so was XP. IT is also worth considering what MS's expectations were for it. I strongly suspect that they knew very well that this would happen, and released it anyway to 'build momentum'. The driver issues will be fixed. SP1 will tackle other things that need fixing. Some of the features originally 'targeted' for Vista will actually appear. But Vista's main job is to provide greater revenue streams than XP would on its own, while thing are being 'improved'. Unless one is willing to abandon MS completely, one WILL end up with Vista in a year or 2, and it will be viable by then for most. Hey, if we're REALLY lucky, sone the DRM issues may become moot, and SP2 will remove the code bloat/performance problem - thus leading to 'much faster' in SP2. We can hope... In short - don't ever think they don't know what they are doing - and don't ever expect it to be anything that is not best for their shareholders - that *IS* their number one job, whatever we might, as customers, wish that it was.

jck
jck

Because "fail" would have to be strictly defined in terms of profit, gross units sold, etc., before you can be sure of who would win the bet or not. Now if we delineate all the factors and determine what thresholds must be met...I might put up $100 against that bet...depending on how you define "fail". Otherwise to make that bet would be silly and you'd need a team of negotiators to determine the outcome of payment. Maybe we should call Gartner and have them research it for us??? :D

ramnet
ramnet

It does not matter what Microsft said /was reported to have said / or indeed did not say. What MATTERS is Microsoft's clients are NOT responding to VISTA like they did for Windows 95/98 or to a lesser extent XP. That said it shows there is a maturing market place out there and MS cannot expect to bully people into submission. They are in for a shock as aging technical personnel like myself who have pushed the MS barrow for 27 years walk away and say enough is enough and I could actually reclaim a life without computers as I have come to realise I do NOT do things faster , I am not saving myself much at all in the way of process , I am inviting a perpetual spiral of ongoing costs playing the catch up and upgrade game and I am sick to death of being given what I don't want , dont need and cannot use over 90% of it. What I really want is a FAST sleak easy to use operating system that I control not someone else. Frankly I was more productive with Dbase , Wordstar and Lotus on a DOS Based 286 than I am these days .. best of luck Microsoft you are going to need it .. the arrogance is starting to really annoy.

Tig2
Tig2

It does bring a point. There are many in the community that do not see Vista as an advantage and prefer to stay to an OS that they know and understand- XP. I think that MS would do well to recognise this and use it to advantage. Not everyone is an early adopter. I wouldn't care to wager on Vista's success or failure. I have made my own strategic decisions and I am certain that others have as well. For the average home user, I have no doubt that Vista will get their vote. At the end of the day, I would have to say, "Who knows?"

Asches
Asches

It doesn't matter what the OS is, they ALL have bugs in them. We are all human after all and who themselves has not made a mistake at least once in a while. Hence software needs to be constructed by humans, it is going to have bugs. While I can appreciate, people's oppinions, I think that Microsoft or OSx or Linux bashing is all bunk. I work with all of the platforms. My preference being Microsoft, due to the business world I live in. Generally speaking all of the platforms are capable of what the others are, it is just a matter of knowing what the risks are, if any (there always are risks), and trying to minimize their vulnerabilities. After that everything else comes down to preferences. Before Windows XP, Windows 2000 was my OS of choice. I was not real accepting of Windows XP initially either, but it has come a long way from the previous versions of Windows, and has become one of the more stable platforms out there. I never install software on a first release for two reasons. First of all, driver support is usually lacking for the first 6 months to a year. Secondly, there are a number of holes, and fixes that are implemented with the first service pack.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

about two or three years ago, Dell was offering computers with Linux for less than those with XP. MS heard about it and got upset, they insisted Dell either stop doing it or pay MS as if it was sold with an XP licence on it anyway, or the cost of MS licences would go up. So Dell offered both at the same price. People found out they were paying for an XP licence anyway and stopped buying. I'm not sure if it was Dell USA doing this or Dell in other countries, but it caused some serious comment at the time.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

with Vista and Off '03 as well. After a few hours, I switched it to a beta version of '07 just to get it working

CodeBubba
CodeBubba

That's pretty much the way I see it right now. I've got 4 systems running at the house and there's absolutely nothing wrong with any of them. Vista will probably be OK ... but to me it's a solution looking for a problem. -CB :)

Neil Higgins
Neil Higgins

Ben Fathi, a corporate VP in Microsoft's Windows Core Operating System Division, said in a media interview that the software company is drawing up plans with a follow-up OS codenamed 'Vienna'.My guess,is that if it comes to fruition,2009-10 seems the likely release date. One of the problems with Vista,is the "loss" of origionally pencilled-in under the hood "boosts",such as a new filing system called WinFS.Maybe it will resurface in Vienna. I hope service pack 1 for Vista will add features,such as HD-DVD playback and Next-Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB), formerly known as Palladium.The service pack must surelly include bug fixes,and auto driver updates. Maybe a different colour in Themes for the task bar? But I digress.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

are leaving the Windows world for Unix, Linux and Mac, and it's NOT price that's shifting them. I know many people who have been with Windows since it first came out. In the past, they've stayed with the new versions of Windows because it's what they knew. But XP was very different and the 'enhancements' to XP have discouraged them, they've looked at Vista and found it too different, and the 'enhancements' are too troublesome. They're switching their businesses over, most small businesses are looking at Linux; the medium businesses are looking at Linux or Mac, and bigger operations are looking at a mix of Unix / Linux / Mac. Many government organisations have found the problems WGA cause them with the monthly updates to be too costly and troublesome, and have got fed up and moving to Linux. Add in those shifting to save money on hardware and software. I can't see MS getting them back unless they make major changes. From a business perspective, the constant changes in the Office formats making them incompatible with other Windows versions and making the formats incompatible with other Office versions are the biggest killers. You need to go outside MS to be able to access older files from earlier incantations of MS and Office, the latest offerings don't work.

bladedragonlord
bladedragonlord

Owned and run a computer since the days of DOS 6.22 (which I loved!) and was forced into Windows, basically with the introduction of Directx. (and therefore device drivers.) Windows 3.11 was dreadful (cough, cough, we needed it for networking.) Windows 95a was a nightmare, Windows 95b, was slightly better, not until Win98se could you basically run everything as expected, except to have to re-install it every say 3 months for an optimal system. Windows ME was good (not great) IF and only IF you had the right hardware. All the Win 9X series had poor memory management. (Which continues today to a lesser extent.) Windows 2000 was a joke, it was supposed to be XP before XP and has basically ended up as a defacto server OS of sorts. Which brings us to Windows XP, which if everyone remembers had the crap bagged out of it and was considered a dead cert flop, before service pack 2. I agree I'm sick of being pushed into the way M$ wants to do things and spending more time on the OS than actual work, but by the same token can see that in 5 to 10 years time we'll all be back here typing away on our Vista service pack 2 installs, saying that, "Windows Glacier Ultimate 3000", is rubbish and will fail in the market place. Why? Because they own us! The manufacturers make hardware that only works with certain software, if you want to use that hardware you'll have to have that software, as simple as that. Unless there is a true consumer revolt then nothing will ever change, and we all want bigger and better right? Cheers to all! My 2 cents!

Rob C
Rob C

I agree. I was in IT, in large companies for 20 years, and 4 of those years were in Quality Assurance. (I note that you too are in Melbourne, perhaps you were in one of those companies) They had learned by bitter experience not to upgrade to a new OS, without doing stringent long term testing. Any large company that decides to upgrade their computers to Vista, will live to regret it. Rob Crombie

georgeou
georgeou

1. My point is that it's not a fair quotation to claim Microsoft is admitting Vista to be a failure. 2. I know the author and I wrote him. He refuses to wager on his prediction and he admits Vista will do ?OK?.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

is an early adopter. I totally agree, and they had warning of it with the forced IE7 install, and all of the problems around that. When will they learn??? I was finally forced to start testing crap in Vista, and I will say that I am running into lots of issues. I keep looking at the PClinuxOS system and thinking "gee, Win Vista is harder to use than Linux".

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

the Vista EULA, then look into TCP. Basicly Vista is a big step towards removing freedom of use from the end user in the name of "security".

intrepi
intrepi

I have to agree with you but I see Vista as yet another rush to market software product from Microsoft. It was done because of pressure and money without concerns or regards to business or consumers alike. There was little and no support from hardware and software manufactures and MS wasn't waiting to get any either. A blind idiot could see this was going to be a problem but not so much as a suggestion of it was coming from MS. Now putting all this bashing aside, even though it's warranted, I still have big issues with MS. Let's assume Vista was the perfect OS and did everything and more than MS said it would, totally flawless in every way. I still wouldn't or couldn't buy into Vista. Why ? There is just no way I'm going to agree to the terms and conditions of it's license agreement. Why in God's name would anyone want to use their time and money to verify, activate and reactivate via telephone via some guy in India who you may or may not understand. This is one issue I just can't get past or tolerate anymore. If that wasn't enough, MS has to employ a 42 digit procedure to allow the continued use of a product you already bought the rights to use ! Microsoft has to change this ridiculous way of protecting their software or I will never buy it.

C-3PO
C-3PO

Vista is not a completely new OS, like 95 was, and although XP is getting better, it is certainly not completely fixed. Would that MS would just fix the heck out of one operating system instead of spending all their R&D on a new one which is really just a flashy front to an old one. I miss the ease of use for the common guy, like a nice simple text oriented BASIC - now that was some fun! And as I've read earlier, the applications are getting more complicated, but certainly not more efficient. If MS really wants to WOW everyone, why don't they secretly start a brand new OS that beats the socks off anything out there, using the best of everything from Open Source to their own proprietary... I know, it's a few billion lines of code, but maybe they could make it a few million by starting over, and that few million would take up much less space and much less processing power. Other companies have tried to start fresh, and failed only because they couldn't compete with Microsoft, but what if Microsoft did it??? I suppose the buggyness of the code would be a problem, but if their R&D was testing from the ground up, this could be avoided and we could end up with an amazing product that the world would swarm to Microsoft for, not the new paint job that is Windows Vista... Is that too backward thinking for the Microsoft Beheamoth? Personally, I like the way Microsoft has gone regarding end user friendliness, but it has definitely sacrificed speed, efficiency, and simplicity of end user functionality...

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

realize that the Secure Computing platfor is more to protect contetent providers then end users yes? Vista has a large underlying DRM system that uses a lot of resources. Do some googleing on the HD content, trusted computing and Vista. MS them selves provide some educational material. a good read: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/02/drm_in_windows.html another good read: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html another http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2006/10/19/forbidding_vistas_windows_licensing_disserves_the_user.html http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html Very Vague http://www.microsoft.com/resources/ngscb/default.mspx Read carefully http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2002/jul02/07-01palladium.mspx Extrapolation...if you do not know the cypherpunks, this is another chance for education. https://www.cypherpunks.to/TCPA_DEFCON_10.pdf

elrico-fantastica
elrico-fantastica

what were you doing? the network stack is in the same place as it is in XP. granted it has a new name but an hour?

carlsf
carlsf

Microsoft will learn that people will NOT pay for or use a inferior product. VISTA has the following problems.... a) Bloated resouce hungry O/S. b) MS have changed too many of the interfaces and naming conventions. c) I had trouble finding and setting up networking in VISTA 1 hour XP PRO 10 mins. d) Lack of pheripheral drivers. e) a large number of 12mth to 2 year old applications will not run on VISTA. f) COST and to many choices. MS can discontinue support for XP but I will NOT go the VISTA way. VISTA = ME and I did NOT go there either.

jared19
jared19

1. I don't think anyone read the article to mean that Microsoft has officially admitted Vista is a failure. No need for a clarification. 2. He wouldn't wager any money on Vista being a failure? Who cares? Defining failure in this situation could be difficult and problematic anyway. Considering the marketshare, it would be difficult for Vista to FAIL, but certainly it could result in much less than was originally hoped for.

georgeou
georgeou

Too bad those third party firewalls are complex and flawed. Sure they have more features, but almost all of them have had remotely exploitable flaws. I don't care for 3D flip, I do like the updated fonts which are much cleaner. Not sure what security nightmare you're referring to. Drivers for any new OS will take time.

Tig2
Tig2

It isn't fair to make false claims in publication. There is little rationale for sensationalist journalism. Unfortunately there is a great appetite for it.

Neil Higgins
Neil Higgins

having used XP Pro,since 2001,I also had heard all the "song-and-dance" things about Vista.It's crap,no drivers,security nightmare.Like any new OS,it can be tested till your blue in the face (or red),have a team of beta testers,behind the scene "code tweakers",and crackers,"called in" to test the holes.But the only way to get things done is to let the product go wild,to the masses,and wait for all the feedback,or moans. I decided to go for broke,and bought the business edition.It installed fine.My only problem was no sound.But searching around for a driver,did not take long.I've switched off the Sidebar.In my opinion,totally pointless,plus it uses too much system resource.I've also switched off Windows Firewall,and using a third-party one,which works fine.Windows Defender I've kept,but added a third-party (full version) one,as yet another back-up. Of course Vista wont be for everyone,and upgrading a whole rack of systems,in a work environment,could be a nightmare,but for a simple home user like me,the upgrade,so far,has been good. Oh,and 3D Flip is cool.Thanx Steve?

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