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10 sci-fi technologies that just might happen

We'll never travel faster than light, have personalized spacecraft, or answer the ultimate questions of existence? The Trivia Geek would care to disagree.

My buddies at SFSignal pointed me towards this Top 10 list of sci-fi tropes and technologies that will never come true. Well, being a contrarian who likes a challenge, I've decided to postulate circumstances wherein each of these ideas could come to fruition, if only to poke the hornet's nest. Here we go:

  1. Faster-than-light (FTL) travel - Okay, sure, traveling at the speed of light, or faster, would mean you have zero length and infinite mass -- if you play by Einstein's rules. But, much like planes can fly without violating the rules of gravity, there are ways of working around the lightspeed limit. Best guess? Something like an Alcubierre Drive, which is freakily similar to a Star Trek warp drive. Basically, you bend spacetime in such a way that the fabric of the universe moves around you, rather than you moving. Spacetime can warp faster than you allowably move in space, so it's a loophole in the light barrier. The Alcubierre would require some way to bend space in an efficient matter -- probably requiring some undetermined method of accumulating and manipulating Higgs bosons or gravitons, if either should prove to exist and carry mass -- but it's in the ballpark of conceivability. It probably won't be energy efficient, but then neither are rockets and radioisotope thermoelectric generators, but they're the backbone of the space program because they're all we've got. I expect the same of FTL travel, at least until we perfect wormhole transit.
  2. Resurrecting dinosaurs - The argument against this little feat isn't so much about feasibility -- we're probably 15 to 20 years away from the genetic competency to clone most any living creature given a viable genetic sample -- but that there's no point in it. (Granted, finding a viable genetic sample for dinosaurs is the really hard part.) But saying we won't do it if we could is just willful ignorance. Even if I concede that we can know every cogent fact about a creature's biology just from the fossil record and DNA analysis, which I don't, there's the entire behavioral component of biology that you can only learn by working with living specimens. Besides, since when is scientific merit the sole factor in determining whether a technical challenge is undertaken? Much as I dislike Michael Crichton, Jurassic Park did have one thing going for it -- acknowledging that when confronted with the possibility of breeding real, live dinosaurs, human beings just can't help but take the chance. We're stupid with dino love. If dinosaur breeding is possible, count on it happening.
  3. Cure-all pills - This one is a little difficult to argue against, since disease is an adaptive foe and curing one strain of anything merely forces pathogens to get stronger or opens up new possibilities of failure. Half the reason heart disease is the leading cause of death in the industrialized world is because we've pretty much tamped down death by infection. We're finally living long enough to die of clogged arteries, which didn't happen a thousand years ago. The answer here is an adaptive cure, one that reacts faster than most pathogens. Nanotechnology is our best bet on this front. Take a genetic snapshot of your DNA and your bodily processes operating at relative peak capacity, then hand that data to a distributed network of cell-sized machines -- that you ingested as a pill -- all operating collectively as an internal repair crew. Given even a cursory set of artificial intelligence cues and skills, these nano-bots could shut down tumors, clear out clogged valves, and wipe out infections before they did serious damage. Of course, that puts us at biological risk of software viruses -- basically putting our lives in the hands McAfee and Norton -- but that's a horror movie for another day.
  4. Stable global government - Okay, this sci-fi staple doesn't appear to be a tech issue on the surface, but it is. It's an accepted truth that all politics is local, because the issues that anyone really cares about are those that affect them directly. Technology will actually make global government necessary. Today, my day job is a little off kilter because I have contract writers (and friends and colleagues) living in Texas, where Hurricane Ike just kicked the crap out of the power grid. Suddenly, the government's ability to get the lights back on in Houston is very relevant to me. My partner has contract developers in the Ukraine, so when Russia starts flexing its military muscle, it affects his business. But the same communications and commercial systems that let me hire people in Texas, Boston, Kiev, and London will only get better, faster, easier -- and more indispensable. To stay economically viable, every country on earth will eventually have to become part of this network. This will in turn make global issues into local issues -- by dint of economic necessity, as it will affect everyone's pocketbook -- and force a global governing infrastructure, however circumspect, into existence. Look for Google Parliament, a tool which lets you set up a stable election online for free and manage a legal system irrespective of geography, within the next decade or so.
  5. Answering the "Is there a God?" question - Not so much a tech question as a plot device in far too many sci-fi stories, I still think this is an area technology will have a serious eventual impact. There is a basic philosophical axiom which holds "That which we cannot know, we call gods." Moreover, superstition is actually a survival tactic, and a very effective one. Determining exactly which aspects of the natural world for which gods are responsible depends on a foundational assumption, but generally speaking, the more we've understood of the world, the less it has been necessary to accord storms and earthquakes to the will of Poseidon or sunrise to the journeys of Apollo. It may take untold billions of eons but, provided humanity survives, it is conceivable that we could understand and replicate all the natural phenomena that led to the existence of human beings. Whatever is left to know beyond that will be, by definition, a higher power. Science cannot help but prove or disprove the existence of a higher being. It's just a question of whether we live long enough to do it. Like Isaac Asimov, I'm betting on it.
  6. Television that beams in your head - Setting aside whether this is a good or a bad thing -- like all tools, brain-TV would only be as moral as the uses it was put to -- direct neural access is a technology that is already under development. I'll even go so far as to posit that pornography will drive its development, for the simple reason that inserting imagery directly into the brain is a measure of privacy. With any current communications medium, the data being shared must be accessed using human senses, so that anyone in sightline or earshot of your media could view it as well as you can. Brain-TV lets you consume information in total privacy and, one presumes, interact with it similarly. Imagine a cell phone that didn't require you to talk out loud? Or watching an action movie or rock concert at any immersive volume, without bothering anyone -- and without damaging your eardrums? Imagine consuming any content you wish, in any manner, with the person next to you none the wiser. We may be a century away from this, but count on it happening.
  7. Forced evolution -First, the term "forced evolution" is a misnomer, as evolution doesn't have an end-goal. It's just the process of creatures adapting to environmental pressures. What we're really talking about here is biological uplift, the intentional granting of enhanced intelligence to non-sapient creatures. Basically, making superchimps or uber-dolphins that can better serve their human masters, to cite the most common sci-fi incarnations of the idea. Here's the scary part -- we already have a pretty good idea about the mechanism that might allow this. A certain variant of the protein neuropsin only occurs in humans and is central to our ability to recall and comprehend memories. It is literally what makes some of our brain functions different from those of other higher primates. How long do you think it will be before chimps are genetically engineered to produce this form of neuropsin? I say 30 years, but whenever it happens, it will be the first step down the path of intentional biological uplift. I, for one, welcome our new meta-chimp overlords.
  8. Perpetual energy source - First, let's set aside any notion that we can violate the first law of thermodynamics. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch and that extends to energy sources. What we're talking about here is a maintenance-free engine that doesn't require external refueling. The answer to this problem is actually rather straightforward -- an engine that gathers its fuel as part of its basic function, rather than requiring an explicit refueling action. A fine example would be the Bussard ramjet, which gathers particles for its fusion reaction from the interstellar medium. Such an engine could theoretically accelerate until it hit the lightspeed barrier, in which case we'll need that Alcubierre Drive to act in concert. Granted, we'd need massively more sophisticated electromagnetic technology to make this work, but nothing about it violates fundamental physics, which is high praise for a science fiction idea.
  9. Personalized spacecraft - The argument against this pretty much the same as that against personalized aircraft -- humans can barely be trusted to navigate personal transports in two dimensions, gods forbid we give them three. The counterpoint is major airliners can fly and even land themselves on autopilot these days, largely because of advances in fly-by-wire and sensor technology. GM is putting a self-driving production car, the Opel Vectra, on the market this year. I'll grant that the George Lucas notion of a pilot-operated X-wing in every garage is bogus, but if we let astromechs do all the driving, the only barrier to personalized spacecraft is the same that is posed to every spacecraft -- the hideous cost of achieving Earth-escape velocity. The generally accepted answer to that problem is a space elevator, and the nanotube building blocks for it get closer every day. Throw in some orbital parking garages, and you're just a cable-car trip away from pointing your personal spacecoupe at any point within a few days' journey of Earth. Say, the moon, or a LaGrange point space station. Don't forget to pack a lunch.
  10. Universal translators - Okay, so "universal" here is a marketing term, because you can't possibly design a device that can interpolate communications from entirely alien intelligences. At least not immediately. Even Star Trek has to cop to that in a few episodes where their uber-translation systems hit a language structure or logic they just couldn't handle (TNG: "Darmok"; DS9: "Sanctuary"). But so far as a universal terrestrial translator, that's just an issue of combining speech recognition and text translation, both of which you can buy off the shelf right now. Heck, we're close to having a pan-European audio translator in the next couple of years. After that it's just an issue of throwing more sophisticated software and computing power at the problem. Where we might approach even a Star Trek-esque transtlator is by proving or disproving the notion of Chomskian universal grammar, which holds that the human brain conceives of language in a basic, biological manner, and comprehending that mechanism will allow comprehension of virtually any human-created language. That would be the elegant solution, but a good, old-fashioned Moore's Law brute force approach is proving just as viable anyway. Odds are, your grandkids will talk on brainlink cell phones that translate almost any human language virtually instantly, so expect phone bills to every corner of the globe to be the next major parent-to-teenager squabbling point. Also, permission to borrow the self-driving aerocar.

Care to counter-argue or concur? There's this big, inviting comments section waiting to hear from you.

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About

Jay Garmon has a vast and terrifying knowledge of all things obscure, obtuse, and irrelevant. One day, he hopes to write science fiction, but for now he'll settle for something stranger -- amusing and abusing IT pros. Read his full profile. You can a...

287 comments
jayohem
jayohem

Ever wish you could grow new teeth? Yes, I realize there are some people who actually have more than one set of adult teeth, but this is growing new ones. It appears that there is a stem cell break through. However, you need still to have your wisdom teeth for the best chance of success. Heard the story on KGO-TV

trotterboy7
trotterboy7

I personally think all religions are wrong, wrong in not real. and theirs some higher being thats just observing us, testing us.....and laughing at us. We're like lab rats basically is what i am saying. I'm sure he/she it is probably ugly too, why do Gods have to look good? I think it was us that created the image of Gods from ourselves. btw 200 yrs from now, life will be similar to Star Wars. with or with out other Aliens and lightsabers (lightsabers are probably a definite without)

Dr_Zinj
Dr_Zinj

Faster-than-light (FTL) travel - The Heim-Droscher-Hauser theorem(s) look like a possibility. Supposedly only the government or a big corporation has the funding to be able to play with the magnets big enough to test this. Considering where our technology level is today, and where the government black programs are, the U.S. Government may already have the proof of viability of this; and may already have working prototypes if it is viable. Resurrecting dinosaurs & Forced evolution & Television that beams in your head & Cure-alls & Universal Translators - dinosaurs are soooo limited. How about designer lifeforms instead? How about pet fire-lizards (Thanks to Anne McCaffery)? Alhough we probably won't be able to do the teleport bit, once we get the minature flying lizard down, we can work on the fire-breathing part for the Mark II fire-lizard. I'll have to look up the neuropsin later today, but I see no physical (ethical considerations are a different question) reason we couldn't implant neuropsin generating cells in infant chimps today and see what that yeilds. Nervous systems are "merely" electronics in biological form. If you can wire it with copper, and process it with silicon, you can do the same thing with neurons. And that spinal cord makes a great yard-long antennae for interperson communication. Ditto for the universal translator. I'm sure we'll have an electronic version in the near future. It's quite a few steps to getting it incorporated in our genome, but part of the mechanism is already there. As for the cure-all, how about a bio-modification for our bodies to repair themselves? Stable global government - monolithic structures are inheritly non-adaptive, and "stability" is the worst. If you can't adapt, then you will eventually become extinct. The best thing about multiple forms of government is that some work better than others depending on the environment. None of them are "universal", and that includes democracy. You want a stable global government, please wait until we are on at least a dozen different globes before going there. Answering the ???Is there a God???? question - yes, superstitions are survival mechanisms, for the same reason that stereotypes are good things. Generalizing from specific instances to predict future events and modify your behavior accordingly is a good way to improve your chances for survival. Walking under ladders exposes you to the danger of falling objects, and accidently knocking the ladder and whomever is on it on top of you with possibly fatal results. And cats (black or otherwise) walking across your path are tripping hazards. Rabbit's feet are lucky (for you, not the rabbit) because you got a meal or two out of it. As long as beleif in God doesn't divert resources necessary for survival from you, and brings more resources when you need them from others than you put in, then that beleif structure will have survival advantage. Perpetual energy source - the laws of thermodynamics holds true for closed systems. The question is, is our universe a closed system? If it constantly expands, and more matter and energy can pop into existance via virtual particles and tunneling, then I would say, "no"; in which case we should be able to create working perpetual energy sources. On the other hand, we're getting better at finding other sources of energy. If we can find a way to control fusion, or utilize zero point forces, we'll be a lot farther toward virtually unlimited energy. Personal Spacecraft - we could have personal flying cars now. The technology exists. It's possible for a 'private' individual with enough funds to collect and manufacture the equipment to put themselves in orbit right now. Governments around the world are NOT comfortable with the idea of drunken drivers, disgruntled employees, jealous spouses, or malicious terrorists flying around with 2-tons of metal and 50 to 100 gallons of explosive fuel. Vehicle barricades aren't much use when you can hop right over them. Who would want the same set of people moving at orbital or interplanetary velocities with 10 to 1000 tons of metal and the equivalent of a multi-megaton bomb in propulsion energies?

OldER Mycroft
OldER Mycroft

Mainly because nobody has ever been able to tell me what they actually taste like. The same goes for the Bible - no dates in there either. Not a single one. Odd that. Yet for those that believe the Big Book, they know 'exactly when it purports to be from' yet they've never seen anything to support it. Back at the time when the plot all kicked off (New Testament) there were very few people that could actually write, let alone read. Yet the story goes that all this stuff was written down at the time. Now, nowhere do I remember anyone telling me that this part of the Bible was an autobiography; indeed, it has never even been said to be even a biography. So, given the predisposition for folk to read the life story of the rich and famous, and the odd happenstance of a God in their midst, it is reasonable to assume (since there is no other evidence to support the case) that the good Book wasn't commissioned until there was a market for its existence, which would've been after the 'raising from the dead' bit of the story. Then it was guaranteed to be a best-seller! Oh, hang on, almost nobody could read! Thus was the enigmatic beginnings of Christianity, yet according to the first instalment from the big Book, it would have you believe that Christianity began thousand and thousands of years before Christ, back in the days of Abraham and Moses - and back then there were critically even less folk who could write. Bring the story of accountability forward 1,439 years and chuck Johannes Gutenberg into the frame. He is credited in history with inventing the world's first printing press and more importantly single-letter moveable type, which brought typesetting into it's rudimentary beginnings, and more importantly printed material to the ordinary man in the street. So Gutenberg set the Bible to print for the first time in 1439, and there are people who would have you believe his fingers (and those of his fellow typesetters) were guided by God to accurately document the previous 10,000 years accurate to the smallest detail. Yet nowhere in this printed version is there a single date. But it's accurate - God made it that way.

Tearat
Tearat

I don?t think so Faith is the corner stone of religion not science There are two problems with the arguments about the existence of god 1 The scientific understanding of the universe and how it came to be is incomplete 2 The understanding of god by the faithful is incomplete How can you answer a question without all the information or understanding of that information? If anyone is stupid enough to think they have the answer Here are some things to think about What is the universe made of? You know the stuff that allows gravity and energy from one place to affect other places The stuff that links everything together The stuff that fills in the gaps What is it? Why does the universe have to have a start and an end? It could have always been Why one big bang? There could have been many big bangs there could be a bang starting now somewhere in the larger universe There could be an area of the universe that is collapsing now that will one day go bang Have the laws that govern the physical universe always been the same? Are they different close to a star? Know you The energy and gravity from the sun screws up everything close to it Where and how did life start on this planet? Why does there have to be one starting point, why do they have to be at the same time? A possible answer to life on other planets We have not found signs of life on other planets because we are the first Someone has to be first Why not us? Could the different religions be the result of the failings of the human brain? The message got screwed up as it travelled around the world Could the different races be the result of similar groups of people joining together and finding a new place to live? Or could it be that they are from the different origins of life on earth Could all that is written in the religious books, etc be people trying to understand the world? Are you silly enough to think you know the answers to those questions? If I believe there is no god why would I want to argue about something that is not there? If it is unimportant if people believe there is a god If I believe there is a god why would I want to prove the existence of something that requires faith One more thing Is the need to prove or disprove the existence of god a mental illness? Or is it because you are unsure in your beliefs or science Are you sure you?re not mentally ill Thinking you are sane could be a sign Would the people arguing there is a god please stop trying to do it by the rules of the scientific twits Please stop responding to those idiots You are being drawn into a trap Logic is their weapon not yours Science is their weapon not yours Most of you are nice people Most of the twits are not Some on both sides are dumb enough to get drawn in and are being used by one or the other Edited for additional warning ****************************************************************** To anyone who wants to discuss religion in the discussion area of techrepublic Don?t bother In the threads that branch from this reply you will see example of types of reply?s and the responses you can expect Old Mycrofts posting is more of the same fun Do you like DATES, personally I've never tasted them ... http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=274687&messageID=2610528 He may have placed it there on purpose but it may have been placed there by mistake You never know with these guys I read back through my reply?s and had to laugh at some of the stupid things I came up with They didn?t even notice the change in style Really guys Do I normally write long-winded replies Do I apologise like that I have tried to cover as many types as I can (not many) I need the typing practise. That is why some are so long The TR religion trolls were kind enough to play along I showed that appealing to their respect would fail I showed trying to get them to learn will fail I showed apologising will fail I showed that being offended would get you nowhere Nothing will work I am not that good at trolling so my attempts were not the best Yes I know arguing with a fool will make you look like one But what if they are crazy fools Does it become extreme sports But if you want to have some fun with religious trolling You have some names to work with There are many TR users to play with and there are some who will play along Before you get angry and start calling me a troll I stated that I expected nothing important to come from any replies to this posting I stated that these types of discussions turn into trolling This is Geekend. Were you expecting anything but comedy? Now you know Enjoy the fun Don?t bother replying to this posting You will get nothing more from me Ps Thanks Jay I enjoyed your Blog

kjohnson
kjohnson

Replacement teeth would be good, but what I really need is a new brain. And preferably an improved body.

Tearat
Tearat

Look up what inspired George Lucas You may be surprised by what you find Was it the future or the past? Was it Reality or fantasy?

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

That you don't think that a weapon that requires skill will be wanted or that you do not believe that Battery Technology will be advanced enough to provide the Power Source necessary to run a Light Saber? Plutonium Batters may be Every Day Items by then and Nuke Away freely available to remove any leaks. :D Col

OldER Mycroft
OldER Mycroft

Just you try adding the scaled-weight of a 'pilot' into your paper airplane and see how far it won't fly. The critical factor is the surface shape of the wing: a side section of a wing will show you that the top surface is bigger than the bottom surface. In forward motion the wing effectively slices through the air in front of it, the upper surface forces the air travelling over it to travel faster than the air passing over the underside of the wing. The top surface of the wing, with the air travelling faster, generates 'lift' thereby maintaining the lofted capability of the aircraft. http://tinyurl.com/4hm5vm Similarity to a paper airplane wing? - Zero. ;)

neilb
neilb

"But, much like planes can fly without violating the rules of gravity" states clearly that planes do not violate the laws of gravity. The "working around" referred to the lightspeed limit. Jay's article was pretty good - they usually are - but he's happy for people to pitch in with criticism. If they're right. :)

uranthos
uranthos

as the teachings of ron hubbard, just older therefore somehow more reliable?? I think not. The crackers on the street offering 'free stress tests' ar no different to the people that stand outside nightclubs at 1am and sing hymns nor the ones that write religious diatribe on sites as such as this one....

Tearat
Tearat

You should try them Just watch out for the one behind Interesting the study of history The study of religion is just as interesting A question for you If there had been any time references in the bible what calendar would they have used? I found the arguments about when the new millennium was suppose to start very funny Two thousand years from what? Some actually believed they knew The story about the gospel of Judas tells some of the history about the creation of the bible It also talks about what was and was not included in the book Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were only some of what they had to choose from It also states they were written after the deaths of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John Other people wrote them from memory Autobiography? Try testimony The Catholic Church has done a very good job of making it a very hard mess to sort through Part of the reason why there are different Christian churches Got to laugh at your choice of words Plot - most important part of a story Kicked off - the stage for bad acting Rich and famous, Market for its existence, Best seller - its all about the money No other evidence to support the case - you are on a roll The good Book wasn't commissioned ? not so good that one Christianity began thousand and thousands of years before Christ ? makes the name seem silly The story of accountability ? anyone know a good accountant Thanks Mycroft I enjoyed that Will you do one for me on the Qur?an/Koran for me? No don?t I wouldn?t want you to be injured The UK has more than enough fanatics Your ending needs work ?But it's accurate - God made it that way.? You need to polish that up. Some will not get the other joke The days on the calendar are just days on the calendar Except the holidays No way am I giving those up

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

is outwitted by a twit ? A bigger twit ? While I agree that attempting to use logic to prove faith is futile, I reserve the right to twit anyone who does so. :p Especially when the next step in their logical thinking is to pull bits off me with hot pincers, until I agree they are correct.

santeewelding
santeewelding

You forgot to mention manhole covers. Should they be larger or smaller?

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

[i]How can you answer a question without all the information or understanding of that information?[/i] To the best of your ability with the information you do have. [i]Some on both sides are dumb enough to get drawn in and are being used by one or the other[/i] And some of us enjoy our exercise. etu lose that stray bracket

uranthos
uranthos

if one could make a battery mmm plutonium-cell, if only it didn't need it's own powersource. How do you see it all the way along as a laser can only be seen at the point of termination oh and how do you terminate it in midair... stop a beam of light with ummm what exactly... SO i couldn't give a monkeys tail lice what Georges insiration was, its just not going to happen.

OldER Mycroft
OldER Mycroft

[i]" Very nice dates You should try them Just watch out for the one behind"[/i] [b]Huh ??[/b] [i]"A question for you If there had been any time references in the bible what calendar would they have used?"[/i] [b]Well, the Julian Calendar of course - the one started by Julius Caesar in 45BC [i]which was very clever, creating a calendar that ran backwards, down to the date of the birth of the bloke who was the central character in the Big Book.[/i] Thereafter, the Calendar began to count up the other side - losing approximately 8 hours 15 minutes per year when compared against the Solar Year. The first Big Book scripts were not penned until 54AD.[/b] [i]"Autobiography? Try testimony"[/i] [b]Uh-Uh! By definition: Testimony: [u]An assertion offering first-hand authentication of a fact[/u] Not really feasible if the gubbins was written after the deaths of the characters, by someone else from memory, is it? If you were to present third-hand 60-year-old 'testimony' in a modern day Court of Law, you'd be laughed all the way into the holding cells for contempt of court.[/b] Anyway, back to the important stuff! - Behind what? :)

OldER Mycroft
OldER Mycroft

Of 21 years of Catholicism, born and bred. Getting educated in and developing a deep understanding of media politics, and economic and political ramifications of communication, left me in a bit of a quandary. The God that I had grown up and been educated to believe in was also, ostensibly, the same God that had provided me with the higher education allowing me to 'see the light'. The light was brighter now but the colour register had shifted somewhat.

uranthos
uranthos

convince someone that, that kiwifruit is not a kiwifruit but a Chinese Gooseberry even though it is and hence isn't even from nz? but this is logic and fact. belief is not based on logic and hence the kiwi will not even enter into the possibilty of the fact despite the evidence. so who's the twit? The upset kiwi that refuses to comprehend? or the aussie having fun upsetting the kiwi? All faith as some flaw distinctly put there by the universe so others can destroy it by logic but ignored by it's own believers.

Tearat
Tearat

Some of them never respond Religion gives many people the strength to cope with day-to-day life It gives others answers to questions It is a support for many who would commit suicide It stops some from harming others It is not a subject that should be taken lightly EVER So many of these religious discussions/arguments/debates turn into trolling But if you want a guide Try this one If you are enjoying yourself or having fun in anyway Stop Religion affects the lives of too many people It is not a subject to be used as a form of entertainment Tony I know you?re not a twit. Try to keep it that way ?While I agree that attempting to use logic to prove faith is futile, I reserve the right to twit anyone who does so.? Attempting to use logic to disprove faith is also futile Attempting to do so could make you look very stupid You do not have to read the postings on this or any other forum If you chose to do so and you don?t like what you see That is your mistake not others You do not have to reply You do not have to do anything at all But for you and anyone else who reads this The need you feel to respond, could be a problem you should find a solution for Ask yourself why you must answer If you do not believe in god. Why do you think it is important to argue about something that you feel does not exist? It is well known that people who have a problem with religion have had some sort of bad experience with it Why would you let that experience affect the rest of your life? Please avoid the mistake of talking about all religions as if they were the same one thing Doing so only proves your ignorance Tony you wrote ?Especially when the next step in their logical thinking is to pull bits off me with hot pincers, until I agree they are correct.? The misunderstanding of what is hell Is a common mistake made by the followers of most religions Most but not all religions have some form of hell Some so called religions are not a religion A mistake made by others is confusing politics and religion Most of the bad stuff made in the name of religion is politics Religion is an easy tool for politicians Did you know there is a different punishment for different sins? Check out the different punishment for suicide You may want to look at the meaning of forever as well There is nothing logical about hell Why would you let someone have an afterlife just so you could punish him or her? Could it be justice? Is justice logical? Should we punish the best person for a job and replace them with someone who is less skilled just because they did something wrong What if the lack of skill is the cause of someone getting killed? Would that be logical? Would it be right? It would be just The punishment not the death I know none of you are silly enough to think I was saying the death would be just or right One more thing What was the most important point I was trying to make in my posting? Stop screwing with other people?s heads Stop trolling It?s EVIL Now lets all pray for forgiveness Yes I know my writing sucks Get over it

BFilmFan
BFilmFan

Twitee? Twitkins? Sorry, I am running on a coffee high today and my brain chemicals are way out of balance. Not that they were ever all that well balanced anyway....

Tearat
Tearat

Should be larger but you will need to balance the cost of a larger hole against the cost of surgery to reduce the size of the objects passing through said holes But if you are a large object your definition of large may not be the same as that of a small object But size is relative A black hole has a larger mass than the larger star it once was Have you noticed if the manhole covers have gotten larger? They could be a new form of measurement Eg The average size of adults in the US is now 2? manholes Most other countries have yet to reach an average size of 2 manholes Does that answer your question?

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

but I think a huge grin is in order. I'm wearing one, at any rate.

Tearat
Tearat

?To the best of your ability with the information you do have? Nope that would be a theory not an answer ?And some of us enjoy our exercise? Exercise all you want But don?t run over anyone while you do it After all you would not want to injure someone else Or do you enjoy hurting others? You know a lot of these religious debates are trolling You know people having fun and taking pleasure in the misery of others But you would never troll. Right?

neilb
neilb

Shame on you to treat me so.

Tearat
Tearat

It is amazing how people think their view (incomplete. No other possibility exists) is the only one that counts That was part of what I was trying to show in my post The universe exists There must be a logical reason for it to exist Why where is your evidence? The universe just appeared in a big bang So what. It means nothing Who cares, its here Get over it We need to know why and how it happened No you don?t your life will go on without you knowing why Get over it We need to know so we can prove if god exists or prove he doesn?t exist Nope knowing how or what made the universe will not prove that Get over it These arguments are pointless No amount of reason or evidence will prove anything about the existence of the universe or god and anything else that could have started it all Get over it Arguing with someone about it will make you look foolish Will science tell us why and how the universe came to be? Nope anything that was there will have been destroyed by the big bang But who knows they may get lucky Will studying the bible or any other religious text tell you what power god used to create universe? Will it tell you how it worked? Nope The text will only show you what the writer wrote nothing more Gee don't I look dumb But what about the people who argued with me?

Tearat
Tearat

You proved It makes no difference how you write something Someone will always get it wrong It proves the idea that all religion has the same origins but got screwed up as it travelled around the world Please note the use of the word IDEA not FACT After all some of you cannot help but get it wrong

Tearat
Tearat

A discussion of weapons from what was written? Or that star wars was about the future ?SO i couldn't give a monkeys tail lice what Georges insiration was, its just not going to happen.? Sure It won?t happen because you say it cant Present understanding of the universe and physics is always a good place to start when talking about the future Did you consider that light might not be the only component?

Tearat
Tearat

I hope you were not sitting back in the cheap seats doing nothing Like some others Watching everyone else do the work That would make you lazy This comedy show needs all the actors it can get Cheers boys an girls I have to go My eyes are shot so reading this is getting painful I am on the road to recovery No not drugs or mental illness So don?t be a smart ass and ask The drugs they gave me were very nice But my favourite is still alcohol No I don?t drink much I will this weekend The Bathurst 1000 is on TV http://www.v8supercars.com.au/ Just picked up a freeview tv card so I can watch it in wide screen So I will leave you with the comic genius of The Scummy One

Tearat
Tearat

I will pray for you boxfiddler God help you No that?s not right May god help you with the long journey that is life Much better But the first one may be right anyway

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

However I have probably read maybe 1/4 of these posts. Some made me laugh, while others insult the intelligence of everyone viewing :0 But that is par for the course :D It makes TR interesting, at the least. I just read one above had me rolling around a bit :^0 something about science proving that there is a god and all :^0 :^0 :^0 Ok, Where's the real Proof???

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

You know, ESP, Clairvoyance, Telekinesis... Being as how [i]I know you lot peer mail him[/i] Can't see any other way for you 'know' this.

Tearat
Tearat

Yes I asked god Thank god the scummy one is here It was getting boring What points and why would I care what the trolls think Anyone who responded to these threads is a troll So why would I care what they think They don?t have to read what I write Bye Scott

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

Of course you can, and do. The god of scum is required by the nature of scum to be insulting! :D Uppercase U, no sh*t. :D My feeble attempt to begin another level in case this end of the discussion drags on interminably. That 'uns gettin' too long. Me get incoherent soon. :(

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

and I like that. Sometimes I dont understand a damned thing, and other times I 'get it' or can work it out. If you dont like Santee's posts, dont respond. We arent dragging Santee anywhere -- however you are INVITING everyone to make a comment whenever you post -- like it or not. Insulting others here is not earning you any points either. Only I can insult everyone and get away with it

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

you have some paranormal abilities? Do I understand him? Most of the time, to varying degree. What I don't understand, I put some work into, and lo... something comes of it. But then, I have to put some degree of work into understanding anybody I care to understand. I don't know any who think as I do. etu

Tearat
Tearat

Do you understand him? That?s the real question Don?t deny it I know you lot peer mail him Poor poor santeewelding all his friends are rolls

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

[i]One more thing Will you lot stop dragging poor santeewelding along with you It?s hard to work out what he means most of the time But when he gets dragged into these discussions its hopeless[/i] I, for one, find it highly unlikely that anyone 'drags' santeewelding anywhere. I'd bet that others here think the same. etu

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

He is hardly being dragged along as he is quite able to stand alone on his own two feet. Just rolling along.

Tearat
Tearat

I was surprised the you read my reply I haven?t read that page It could be good for a laugh It was the first one that came up in the search Old Mycroft was talking about a calendar that would have been used in the bible ?Well, the Julian Calendar of course? I have to laugh A calendar started by a roman emperor being used in the bible When he wrote ?I don't know what you are ingesting that has altered your state of mind, but you can't just dismiss things willy-nilly and expect to be taken seriously. Your literal actions are not those of an educated individual but a rather flimsy attempt at outflanking manoeuvres, hoping to mask your retreat.? I almost fell of my chair with laughter If I am going to argue with a religion troll about something pointless I should stick to his rules or be judged as uneducated I cant keep this up its so hard to type when you?re laughing this much No wonder I?m making misktes You lot really are a clueless bunch of trolls None of you have any idea what?s going on do you? Do you think I expected to win any of these arguments? I know how this goes You lot will write anything to win The funny part is trying to work out what will be written in the next reply I have a name for this type of troll Roll What do you think? Short for religion troll I like it because it could mean rolling with laughter Now will you lot stop rolling it?s starting to hurt This is Geekend One more thing Will you lot stop dragging poor santeewelding along with you It?s hard to work out what he means most of the time But when he gets dragged into these discussions its hopeless

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

[i]6. Obedience to Law Yahweh?s Restoration Ministry affirms that the Bible commands the observance of all Yahweh?s laws, statutes, and judgments in both Old and New testaments (except the sacrifices mentioned in Hebrews 9 and ritual circumcision), Deuteronomy 6:6-9; 7:6-11; Matthew 4:4; 5:17-20; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14. Through obeying His commandments we demonstrate our love for Yahweh, John 14:15, 21; 15:12. Faith does not annul His law, Romans 3:31; James 2:14-17.[/i] I see no mention of Leviticus. Do members of this sect shave? Eat pork or shellfish? Make the required [burnt] offerings and sacrifices?

santeewelding
santeewelding

Those anomalies of structure and function of thought, no matter whose line.

neilb
neilb

Yahweh?s Restoration Ministry affirms that only men are permitted to speak before the assembly, and that Paul admonishes women to remain silent during formal worship services. Yahweh?s Restoration Ministry seeks to adhere to all of Yahweh?s Word, whether popular or not. (see post above!) Everyone is welcome regardless of race or nationality [i]although we want women to keep their traps shut[/i]. Italic added by editor.

neilb
neilb

If I'm going to take the piss out of something then I consider it only fair that I read enough to give me a true picture. Given, though, that I'm not a believer in matters spiritual, something called "Yahweh's Restoration Ministry" wasn't ever going to get on my preferred reading list. "Yahweh?s Restoration Ministry affirms that the Bible commands the observance of all Yahweh?s laws, statutes, and judgments in both Old and New testaments (except the sacrifices mentioned in Hebrews 9 and ritual circumcision)" coupled with "We affirm that both the Old and New testaments are inspired, and that they are to be used for teaching, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. We must not take from or add to Scripture" marks them out as nutters from the off. And not because I'm a non-believer! But simply because they carefully tell us that the Bible is The Word, you may not add or subtract but we're not going to do sacrifices or circumcision because we don't quite like it...

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

How is it you conclude that we 'were'?

Tearat
Tearat

It should have been So nice to have an opinion. Even morons are entitled to have one You have worked me soo hard I cant help but squeak op Careful rats bite Which way? Do you jest sir knight Why do they say you should never argue with a fool? Ah boxfiddler and you were being so nice to me What a shame

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

Slow on the uptake. Fragile, cracks...

santeewelding
santeewelding

Did you mean, (1) nice to have opinion ...or, (2) nice-to-have opinion?

Tearat
Tearat

You actually read the web page neil? How long did it take to find what you wanted? Primum non nocere ... Yes what about it Where do you get your wacky weed santeewelding It must be good stuff Nice to have opinion even if you are a moron Shake the bells boys

santeewelding
santeewelding

He also trips over his own tongue in his effort to do so. It gets in his way. Too, mightily as I try, confoundment happens. That other stuff happens, too.

neilb
neilb

"Start years in the month barley will be harvestable by the middle of that month (Leviticus 23:4-14)." So, no need for an atomic clock, then? Neil :^0 The rest of your post was total crap, though.

Tearat
Tearat

Your mistake was thinking I was trying to change your point of view But whatever floats your boat Was it your turn to bat? The only straw was the short one you drew I can?t explain it Was about the date in the centre of your bum It?s a bit rude so some people may be offended sorry about that ?Au Contraire - anyone who says "No more needs to be said" is someone who is lost, having nothing to offer in reply and covers their own back by spouting this drivel. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that you'd never even heard of the Julian calendar, that's why nothing more needs to be said, because you are now in unfamiliar territory and don't want to have to fit your other foot into your mouth as well!? The reason I asked the question was to see if you actually knew what you were talking about Also I was interested in what calendar/s you would choose to offer Which is why I did not include any in my reply My opinion about calendars was shown in the statements ?I found the arguments about when the new millennium was suppose to start very funny Two thousand years from what? Some actually believed they knew? If I needed to find out about the Julian Calender I could have looked it up on the Internet so why would I ask you? Type into any search engine ?Biblical Calendar? I just did and this is the page pointed to by the first result http://www.yrm.org/abccalendar.htm I suppose you want to argue with the web now Good luck with that It discusses more than the two calendars you mentioned It has information about the Biblical calendar you may find interesting Now you have more than one reason why some people would use No more needs to be said But I could have chosen What more can I say ?I don't know what you are ingesting that has altered your state of mind, but you can't just dismiss things willy-nilly and expect to be taken seriously. Your literal actions are not those of an educated individual but a rather flimsy attempt at outflanking manoeuvres, hoping to mask your retreat.? Dismiss things? I can if I know they are not completely correct From the dictionary Testimony 1.affirmation 2. evidence Affirmation 1.asserting 2. word of assent Assert 1. declare strongly 2. insist upon I could go on but I see no reason to do so Sorry my dictionary does not list Asserting Gosh testimony has only one definition how silly of me Looking at that. I swear I can see more than one. But my vision is not what it use to be Like I said the word ?fact? may be a bit misleading Truth would be a better word but still not perfect Testimony: An assertion offering a first hand authentication of the truth I was not trying to outwit or out flank you I hoped you would become interested enough to do some research and find out the truth for yourself I had my doubts Nope truth is still not the best choice Your reply to the calendar question was a quick easy answer Why would I bother to put any real effort into my reply? It looks like chances of finding anybody on TR who is interested in the history of religion are low You had already stated that what you learnt from the Catholic Church was lacking Why would I argue with you about it? Don?t pretend to be offended OTR has already tried that one You lot need new material Google is your friend If you have a little bit of interest you may want to think about the other questions I asked Here they are again Testimony of what and by whom is the question The gubbins is a record or documentation of what? Where did the content come from? You can ask me but don?t expect an answer So sad. Smart people who don?t want to learn about something No. It?s not an insult When are you people going to learn There is more than one way of looking at things Words have more than one meaning I need cover from all the BS that you lot keep throwing at me Cheers Mycroft you seem like a nice person I wonder about some of the others Some times I take the bait Will you read this? God knows Sorry forgot Will you read this? Allah knows I know it would look better in Arabic

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

As I said above, he seems to have confused mass of verbiage with density of thought. BTW, did you ever hear Walter Kauffman's quote about the difference between a philosopher and a theologian? [i]I am a philosopher and Paul Tillich is a theologian. Here is the difference between the two: a philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there; a theologian is a man in the same circumstance - but he finds a black cat![/i]

OldER Mycroft
OldER Mycroft

You are adopting the posture of a Magician attempting to pull a rabbit from a hat - but without a tangible hat from which to pull it. You're clutching at non-existent straws in a vain attempt to shift my view, to create a smokescreen that will obscure your inability to present a counter argument that is based on coherent fact. [i]"I can?t explain it in a public forum The Julian calendar of course No more needs to be said [b]Au Contraire - anyone who says "No more needs to be said" is someone who is lost, having nothing to offer in reply and covers their own back by spouting this drivel. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that you'd never even heard of the Julian calendar, that's why nothing more needs to be said, because you are now in unfamiliar territory and don't want to have to fit your other foot into your mouth as well![/b] Yes that is how they define it for the law But ?fact? may be a bit misleading"[/i] [b]I don't know what you are ingesting that has altered your state of mind, but you can't just dismiss things willy-nilly and expect to be taken seriously. Your literal actions are not those of an educated individual but a rather flimsy attempt at outflanking manoeuvres, hoping to mask your retreat.[/b] [i]I see your teachers had a less than perfect understanding of what it was they were teaching? No surprise it was the Catholic Church[/i] [i][u][b]So you throw doubt into the thread but don't back it up with anything at all![/i][/u][/b] [b]As for this outburst - you truly are an outstandingly arrogant bastard - you denigrate my education without any knowledge whatsoever of who, what, where and when I was educated and toss in the cursory reference to the Catholic Church, when it is over-abundantly clear that you haven't actually taken in a single thing that I have posted on this subject. What on earth is wrong with you - or are you simply playing devils' advocate? Anyone that poo-poo's things for the sake of poo-pooing them is, in my mind just an expert on the subject of poo. You are just a Schitt-Stirrer[b]

Tearat
Tearat

The behind bit It was a joke lost in translation I can?t explain it in a public forum The Julian calendar of course No more needs to be said ?Uh-Uh! By definition: Testimony: An assertion offering first-hand authentication of a fact? Yes that is how they define it for the law But ?fact? may be a bit misleading Testimony of what and by whom is the question The gubbins is a record or documentation of what? Where did the content come from? Autobiography is not right as well I see your teachers had a less than perfect understanding of what it was they were teaching? No surprise it was the Catholic Church ?If you were to present third-hand 60-year-old 'testimony' in a modern day Court of Law? But it?s not a court of law is it? Behind of yours

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

After all everyone knows that Kiwi's don't [b]Fruit[/b] and even if they did who would want to eat that? :D Col

Tearat
Tearat

I was not responding to you in reply?s to you I wrote Tony and OTR are not the only ones I am talking to in my reply?s to their reply?s Wow I see it all Thankyou so much What an amazing revelation I can see that an online conversation with you will be too much work The little war at the start of this discussion was sad The myths that were repeated The text death spirals The lack of knowledge and/or understanding It was on both sides Sad to see smart people getting it so wrong

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

there's no point in attempting a discussion with someone who says their responses to you are not responses to you, when you point out they weren't responses to what you responded with to their repsonse Santee, not a hope in that warm place for non-believers I don't believe in anyway.

Tearat
Tearat

Stop acting like you don?t know what I meant

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

[i]the level of skill of the other person[/i] That LCD thinking is why our schools are failing, why the newspaper isn't worth reading, and why (a lot of) people no longer bother to challenge themselves or others to greater achievement. It's the equivalent of settling for less. Bah. edit tags

Tearat
Tearat

boxfiddler ?to end the argument is for one of you to stop posting.? True but Tony and OTR are not the only ones I am talking to in my reply?s to their reply?s Same with some of the others I reply to I have held back on a lot of things I could have written But it becomes petty I could have corrected a lot of the mistakes that are just misunderstandings Usually there is no intent to harm when repeating the mistakes or misunderstandings of others I find religion to be an interesting thing to study It is very complex No one fully understands or comprehends it History is very interesting But humans who forget things write it Thanks for the funnies santeewelding ?Or Synthesis to make sense of you both.? What? No that would be unkind Take what sense or understanding you can from this I have already stated I expected very little to come from this discussion You don?t have to listen to anyone Except maybe Cops, Judges and the men with the strait jacket Tony Scientific twit Was part of a warning. I was not thinking of anyone in particular when I wrote it I can?t help your EGO or how you feel about what I wrote Until now I would not have thought of you as a twit I will have to wait and see if that has changed What I think of you should have no effect on your life There is no reason for you to care I should not be important to you in anyway Evil I have used the word Non-religious people use it all the time Why would I think you are evil? Should I? Have you done something evil? I want to find someone evil I will look at politics The evil ones have started their election campains here This may help you understand Someone can do something evil. It does not mean they are evil. It can happen by accident Bully Some don?t realise they are doing it If you don?t want to be a bully bring your argument down to the level of skill of the other person Tricking someone is not a skill Lying is not a skill Discussions, debates and arguments are very different things The moment you expect to win will be the moment you lose Luck is everything Scrooge (the Santa tangent was confusing) Nope that was not scrooge but close You are such a happy follow you need to have a good laugh Repeat after me Ho Ho Ho Damn forgot they are not allowed to say that now Just forget about the suit ?Then you describe actions of christians that don't fit in with your idea of christianity as not those of a true christian. Now you say they are politicians..? No I did not say they were all politicians I did not say they were Christians You wrote they described themselves/himself as a true Christian All of them may have been insane Assholes comes to mind Not all politicians and Christians are insane or assholes I know it?s hard to believe not all politicians are assholes They are hard to spot. Look for the ones with their mouths closed You have stated there is nothing I can say that will convince you I am not a Christian So you think what you like Most Christians are nice people All the ones I know are Thanks for the complement You tell me your definition of right so I can tell you if it?s the same as mine I will pray to Allah for you Allah the god of Abraham You tell me who Abraham was?

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Scientific twit Evil Bully Scrooge (the Santa tangent was confusing) Then you describe actions of christians that don't fit in with your idea of christianity as not those of a true christian. Now you say they are politicians.. And your point is, aside from trying to paint your own faith as 'right' that is?

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

to end the argument is for one of you to stop posting. [i] Was that reasonable enough for you? Will it end this idiotic argument? I have my doubts[/i]

Tearat
Tearat

Hitler was a politician. Kings and Emperors fit into the politics category The Borgias described themselves as true christians Torquemada described himself as a true christian. Every Pope would describe himself as a true christian Those who presided over the Salem witch trials described themselves as true chiristians F'ing David Eicke described himself as Christ ! Anyone could say they were a cabbage It still wouldn?t make them one They are not the only ones to say they were Christian There were many people who managed to live lives without harming anyone else Some of them would be Christian You can add as many names as you like You can name anyone you like from history The present is what I find most important Some people like to repeat history over and over Some people like to recite history over and over Some people get so lost in history they forget about the present Did you know people sometimes lie? Did you know that politicians sometimes tell the truth? I know it sounds unbelievable But politicians find they have no choice but to tell the truth on occasion Thanks I had been spelling Christian wrong The statement ?True Christian? makes me suspicious of the person using it I could be guilty of using it What would be the possible reasons for putting ?True? in front of ?Christian?? Could it be to suggest that Christians are untrue without the addition of the word true? I wonder how a Muslim would react if I were to ask them ?Are you a True Muslim? I wonder if I would get a different reaction if I were to ask it in Iran or Iraq The history of the human race is nothing to be proud of Don?t start trying to blame it all on religion Political leaders did most of the bad stuff A lot of them claimed to be religious You can keep trying to justify your behaviour with the past You can make as many excuses as you like It will make no difference The past can be a reason for someone?s behaviour I find it very hard to except it as an excuse But keep trying if you must You may get lucky I don?t know what kind of bible banging loony?s you have over there or in the USA But they must be bad to cause this type of madness TR is a crazy place There are some strange people here I may one of the strangest But not the only one You need to cool down Tony Is it really that important to you? I can?t believe you would care what I think I am halfway around the world You don?t know anything about me Hitler tops my list of all time baddies He tops my list of lunatics I would never think of him as any sort of Christian I would never go so low as to use him in an argument with a Christian Was that reasonable enough for you? Will it end this idiotic argument? I have my doubts

Tearat
Tearat

I have to laugh You still don?t get it do you Did you think I expected anything of any value would come from my original reply Did you think I expected to a sensible discussion with anyone who responded Why would I expect anything else from a bunch of religion haters? I will admit the hater?s replies are more entertaining than the ones from people who don?t believe and don?t care You can think what ever you like Call me a Christen, Muslim or any of the others I don?t give a crap What religion I do or don?t follow was never the point But you guys were so obsessed you lost it long ago Go ahead trash Christmas I have no love for that holiday I have no problem drinking Coke I like the taste Will you try to convince me that Pepsi is the only choice? God knows You lot are bonkers Tony if you had really wanted a debate you should have kept to the point I was trying to make But you lost all chance when you tried to make it about my choice of religion Good one mate Your contempt for Christians was apparent long ago You did a good job of hiding it until you started ranting Just to let you and the other nutters know I could not in any meaning of the word be called a Christian Jesus Christ was a man not a god The days on the calendar are just days on the calendar No I am not a druid I wouldn?t want you to start hating them Are you happy now? One more thing Everyone is human Religion will never change that I try to treat other HUMANS with respect You and others in this disgusting discussion have pushed me to the limit

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Ok matey lets try a little reason, though I have to say the concept seems foreign to you. Adolf Hitler described himself as a true christian. The Borgias described themselves as true christians Torquemada described himself as a true christian. Queen Mary described herself a true christian Every Pope would describe himself as a true christian Those who presided over the Salem witch trials described themselves as true chiristians Emperor Constantine described himself as a true christian F'ing David Eicke described himself as Christ ! You want me to go on? So how exactly is a poor heathen to tell the difference between you at that bunch of f***s, not to mention all the other ones who commit, committed and will commit vile atrocities on the basis of being a true christian? You haven't yet? You haven't admitted that you are going to? You don't believe that you have? It might be seriously convenient for you to forget the history of the faith you espouse in common with a multitude of ignorant bloody minded power seeking f**kwits. Those who choose to deny history are condemned to repeat it. True Christian, yeah right. Or should I say righteous. You know the behaviour exhibited by those who believe they can do no wrong, because of what they believe. Zu beflehl mein fuhrer

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

You do know why winter soltice was chosen as the birth of Jesus don't you? Winter Solstice was celebrated in many religions and cultures way before your lot came on the scene. I've often wondered if the red robes were chosen based on the amount of blood that was shed to steal that ceremony. Druids aside in the celebration of Yule, it was a very important date in the Mithraic calendar, which Christiamity stole from liberally in order to make your religion more palatable to the romans. Given that your man, was meant to have died and ascended at spring equinox, which was also a significant date in existing religions calendars..... If you have any real desire to show yourself as the winner of this debate, (such as it is). you should really pay a bit more attention to how your religion came about as opposed to the dogma it has been subsumed by. You made a good start at justifying my distaste for your religion, you'll be pleased to know you have now achieved near total contempt as well, on a personal basis that is. While you judge me by the faith you claim to share, many other christians are far more secure in their share of your faith, and don't percieve me a threat to it. Don't try to claim that you don't, your posts will give the lie to that.

Tearat
Tearat

You saw yourself as one of the scientific twits Now you want to blame me for that Good one What makes you think it was about you? You will need to check your ego at the door before you answer Tony you are so important to me I don?t know what I would do if you ever stop posting Well I need the comedy and you do it so well Nope I am no good at trolling I need to cut out half my brain if I want to troll OTR has decided to troll He may be very good at it I will wait and see I have to answer it would be impolite not to Were did you get anti faith from? Interesting that anyone would use that term ?Now you claim to understand that faith an reason are not amenable? Did I I will read back and see if I can find what you are referring to Now could I hope to have any sort of reasonably discussion about that? Nope don?t think so What is my faith Tony? You seem to think you know? If may help if you explain what is your definition of faith I would like to know why you think I am a Christian You will need to show you understand what a christen is You know the christen god is so terrible Love and Justice truly horrible things The Ten Commandments a list of evil deeds to be carried out by the followers of the prince of darkness My attempts to reason with you have failed so I was right This is not the first or last time I will make myself a target You can use any reasons you like to explain that ?Somebody stood up in above their kneeling flock. He waffled on about God and Jesus, being the one true belief. Got everybody behind him, then pointed at someone like me, and said he was a threat. So they tied him to a post and set him on fire, so God could judge his eternal soul.? Now you have got me interested could you point me to where you found that I have to wonder why you would think anyone would want to set you on fire God may do it if you hold up a lightning rod in a lightening storm Nothing I believe will let me set someone on fire It is a horrible way to die I don?t believe any true christen would But you may be thinking of the past I suppose you will give me some links that show actions of groups like the KKK and expect me to believe they are true followers of some religion The history of politics and religion is interesting to read The problem so many have is deciding which is religion and which is politics Good to see you have solved to problem with the IRA It?s a shame how you lot let it affect the world No not really I would never hold you responsible for the actions of your government Was it religion or politics that solved the problem? I find reading about WWII more uncomfortable than anything done by the many churches of Europe No I did not say I found reading the history of religion in Europe uncomfortable I can find a lot to read about in the history of NZ and America Your leaders really knew how to treat the natives But I know it was not how the rest of the population of Europe would have treated the natives Some would but not all Why would I blame you for something that happened so long ago? That would be unfair you were not alive at the time I wont tell you how the part Maori people of this country want everyone who has little or no Maori blood to pay for what was done in the past I would not ask you or anyone else to change their religious beliefs I have not asked anyone in this discussion to do that I have asked people to be careful how they treat others with strong beliefs I have tried to explain that there much more to religion than what is in the books that includes history books I have made myself the target for some people who don?t give a damn about how the things they do effect others No I wont tell you why so don?t ask My writing will do for this If it bothers you stop reading Or get over it You are not the evil one Tony He has no sense of humour Not with things getting so hot for him now

Tearat
Tearat

Feel free Thinking you are not will not make it true Thank you for caring Tony I feel so much love coming from you Will you be putting on the red suit next Christmas? I would love to hear you say ho ho ho Yeah right

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

Only two of five. One of which I can't obtain without certain parts removal. :D

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

merely an example of the benefits. :p Yoo too can be short, fat, old, underpaid and sex starved.... ROFL

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

As long as you're over there, you're not here getting me into all sorts of trouble. Oh wait. I don't think I need help in that regard. :p

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Now I'm a bully as well. Church of Tony 1 member Church of Christ 1 billion members Have you heard the phrase the 'Tyranny of the majority' ? Bully Praying is meaningless because you are not praying for Neil, I, Saddam Hussein or anyone else. No you are bothering God to make sure he remembers to reward you with heaven. After all it's a tenet of the christian faith, that your actions in life do not form the basis for the judgement of your eternal soul, but that belief does. So you could just as easily pray for our eternal damnation, and still go to heaven with the other good guys. Regards the evil bullying twit.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Whether they just read or they choose to engage in debate. How emotional they get, how rational they can be be is entirely up to them. If they choose to engage me, yourself or anyone else, then how you do, will in most cases set the path of further debate. Not once ever have I tried to disprove faith. That would make me a twit. My logic is that faith can neither be proven, nor disproven. Faith or lack of it does not submit to any rationale of reasoning. At best once a faith / anti faith is accepted , one can then proceed on from that initial statement. Why must I answer ? Well I'm polite basically? I mean 'you' opened the conversation, did you do it on the expectation that you should be ignored? That would hardly be a sensible definition of discussion would it? Now you claim to understand that faith an reason are not amenable, then you pile in with some 'reasoning' based on your faith which we've both agreed I do not share. JSbell made entirely the same mistake. Given I don't believe in the christian god and all that entails, then there is no heaven or hell after death, there is no judgement, there is no justice in death, death is simply the end of life. A point where I only exist in the memories of those who knew me, and in whatever legacy I can create through my actions in life. If I'm screwing with your head, then you are screwing with mine, not to mention being a threat to my continued existence. Just remember you are judging based on your faith, which I'm assuming from your post is essentially christian. One thing I am not ignorant of is christianity and it's impact on history. Seeing as you apparently are I will fill you in. Somebody stood up in above their kneeling flock. He waffled on about God and Jesus, being the one true belief. Got everybody behind him, then pointed at someone like me, and said he was a threat. So they tied him to a post and set him on fire, so God could judge his eternal soul. That is the legacy of the faith you share. I can't do anything about that, only you and your fellow believers who also find history uncomfortable can. So given that, it would seem to me that seeing as you are a christian, that you are pointing fingers, that you are judging, then you have a handy stake and a box of mathces about. So therefore my only logical assumption about you is that you want to kill me. You pray for forgiveness if you want, personally I hope your god does forgive you, but only if you choose to stop acting in a way that caused you to ask for forgiveness anyway. I don't ask that you cease believing, I ask that you act in concert with your belief. Judgment is mine sayeth the Lord. Best regards the Evil one. Your writing was ok, reasoning, well lacking I'm afraid. I forgive you though.

Tearat
Tearat

Over the years is that someone will always take it too far Also it has a ripple affect It may not have an effect on you or opponent But you both have an influence on the lives of other people You know how the rest of it goes I am not saying it should be boring A lot of people enjoy teaching others But having fun at someone else?s expense can turn nasty Bullies think its fun to beat up someone weaker than them Some bullies think they are teaching them to be strong Don?t forget there are some things that should never be debated Like how to use murder as a means to get promoted What you think of as harmless is not always harmless A discussion on how to avoid explosions when mixing chemicals could be seen as instructions on how to create an explosion You can talk about it but be careful about what and how you say things If you don?t believe in god it is easy to think that there is nothing harmful you can say How could it be? God doesn?t exist so nothing will happen Religion has a great deal of influence on people?s lives Not just going to a temple or church It effects how they deal with other people, friends and family It provides comfort to some who feel they are alone in the world They can talk to god or a priest There are so many things people fool themselves about Men and women who think having a baby will make everything right in their relationship That was the least harmful one I could think of One of the worst is thinking there is no point in living because you have achieved or done nothing worthwhile For some the belief that god cares is enough For others it is their children Why is Christmas one of the most depressing times of the year for some people? But to repeat Just be careful how you discuss what is important to others If it is important to them you should treat it as a delicate subject You should also take a look at yourself and decide if you are the right person to discuss it with them Sorry to everyone if I threw a wet blanket on the fire But some of what was being written was not on You should not need anyone to tell you that

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

Having fun debating things is significantly different from making fun of those who believe something one doesn't. When I mentioned fun, above, I was referencing love of debate and/or nitpicking. I can't speak for neilb, but I certainly hope that is what he was referencing also.

Tearat
Tearat

It?s not about my religion Which is why I did not say what my religious beliefs are or if I had any I am not saying that religion is so important that it must not be questioned I am saying how you do it is important Making your opponent look foolish is an old, overused tactic and not that clever Setting the stage up for them to fail is pretty low and fairly crude You opponent may not be very smart but that does not mean they are wrong Is winning the argument by tricking your opponent really a victory Have you used any of those tactics? People who have religious beliefs think they are important Those who have none don?t Why is it ok for someone who doesn?t give a crap to make fun of the beliefs of someone else? ?It's not all done for fun. Surely, to those who do not believe (like me), understanding those who do believe, understanding what they believe and understanding why they believe different things is hugely important in developing insights into one of society's major formative forces.? Look Neil you are making assumptions No it is not all done for fun I was not talking to the ones who were taking it seriously Are you one of those that was making fun of other weaker people How can you say you understand the relationship that someone has with his or her god if you have none? Eg How can you understand everyone else and every religion Do you understand women? Do you understand the elderly? Do you understand children? Do you understand everything about them and the universe we all live in? That type of misunderstanding is part of the problem that creates so many of the wars around the world People who think they know everything about someone Look pretty stupid when that someone does something unexpected Nobody has expected the Spanish Inquisition for a very very long time Things change and it helps if you know that when talking about history ?Some of it is in pointed answers to some of the truly patronising, smug religious sorts that we get on here very occasionally (today, for example). That is fun and if it annoys you - oops , sorry, I mean them - then all to the good. When replying to others - hi Boxie, if you're reading - the fun comes to both sides in the cut and thrust of debate and no-one is out to hurt anyone.? Why is it so very important for anyone to answer them? Why don?t you ignore them? Is it really that hard to do? Most of the time replying just makes you look stupid or petty or arrogant Part of what I was trying to say is Others all around the world read this and other forums You have no idea how your replies will affect them All I want is for you and others to be careful Don?t hurt someone else in your efforts to get your opponent Someone always seems to get hurt What you think of as smug may not be intended as smug I have seen you take what is a common statement and be offended If someone was to write, ?I will pray for you? I could expect you to think they were acting superior When that statement can mean that the person saying it cares enough to put in a good word about you with their god The silly part is you care more about how you interpret it than how it was meant And it?s about something you do not even believe So what if they pray you don?t believe Why do you care what they think or how they feel about you or anyone else? The fact that you responded shows it was of some importance to you Yes I have seen you do that in these forums Why is it so many give away power or control of their lives to someone they do not know or give a crap about No that was not about religion "Please avoid the mistake of talking about all religions as if they were the same one thing". Yes! That's the bloody point! They aren't the same and if there was one God then they damn well ought to be! I have covered this before in other replies That is an absolute When you can write something that means the same thing to everyone forever let me know I don?t know of many things that are absolute Language in particular English is anything but absolute in its meanings Why do you think everyone is wrong because someone got it wrong? Where does it say that everyone must see or understand things the same way? Here is your logic 1+1=2 1+2=3 2+2=4 3+3=5 Are all of those wrong because the last one is wrong? No is the answer Here is another one Farmer Brown has black cows on his farm so all cows are black But they can be Browns Some people believe in UFOs Others say there must be life on other plants Why is it ok to think there is life elsewhere But think someone is crazy if they say they have seen it There are many reasons people get messages wrong Does that mean everyone is wrong about the message? If you want to use that argument you will have to come up with something better than ?They aren't the same and if there was one God then they damn well ought to be!? There is more than one person in one church in one religion in one country speaking a single language I know they screwed up the translation of the bible from Hebrew to English What if god had fixed it? Would that be proof of his existence? Then what about faith Can you believe someone has faith if they have proof? Anyway this is way to long and I don?t care that much about what you or anyone else thinks about religion or god Gosh there is two ways to look at that line. Which will you chose? Don?t be a bully Not everyone is as smart as you No one likes a bully None of this is an admission of any beliefs I may have about religion or god But I will pray for you to Zeus king of all the gods Or is that Jupiter, Jupitor ?? May have to be Mars or is that Ares Heck you pick one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_gods Bad bad ratty you are not meant to have any fun Edited to add this I have to laugh at some of my spelling miss takes

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

and you knew I would be! :D My particular brand of 'fun' re: religion is pretty specific. You probably have it pegged by now, as do a very few others. Religions are not the same - ain't no way - and the gods at the foundations of those unlike religions ain't the same either. I'm not out to hurt anyone, but this is a wide open forum. Anyone reading here without a thick skin and a grain or two of salt is in for a world of offense now and then. That, is the nature of the beast. One cannot help but be offended if 'free speech' is the law of the land. Don't like it, go elsewhere. (Which of course you already know, but apparently others have yet to discover.) etu - mostly because I should have posted up one level.

neilb
neilb

yes, your writing does suck - big time. That's not the only point, though. What I want to know is why you feel that religion (and I guess you mean your religion) is so important that it must not be questioned? I'm also interested why you feel that this message needs to be broadcast by you. You've been a member for long enough to work out what goes on here and how much we are likely to care about what you have posted. It's not all done for fun. Surely, to those who do not believe (like me), understanding those who do believe, understanding what they believe and understanding why they believe different things is hugely important in developing insights into one of society's major formative forces. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition. Some of it is in pointed answers to some of the truly patronising, smug religious sorts that we get on here very occasionally (today, for example). That is fun and if it annoys you - oops , sorry, I mean them - then all to the good. When replying to others - hi Boxie, if you're reading - the fun comes to both sides in the cut and thrust of debate and no-one is out to hurt anyone. "Please avoid the mistake of talking about all religions as if they were the same one thing". Yes! That's the bloody point! They aren't the same and if there was one God then they damn well ought to be! I don't pray. Ever.

Tearat
Tearat

Thanks for saying I was talking about boxfiddler Yes I know what you mean So kind of you to make fun of what I think is important Like you don?t know what I was talking about I am getting right Pd off at people who will not stop using Two wrongs make a right The end justifies the means The past as an excuse for their behaviour Its may be time to take a break Anger is never a good place to start from when discussing things The fact that TR has not sent me an alert since the 23 of last month is another thing that?s beginning to bug me about this place By the why it was scientific twits Do you think of yourself as one of those? Don?t know how much science you could fit into the brain of a goldfish But don?t let me stop you swimming around the discussion

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

be outwitted by a twit. I am far too polite to make such a claim. :p :D

Tearat
Tearat

No text Except that and this

uranthos
uranthos

Don't forget techno rat you have missed one VERY critical variable in your cost/person-hole size matrix is the average fitness of the regular users of aformentioned person-hole... ergo since you didn't have all the data, don't answer the question ;P

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

I try to keep my comments short and pithy. I occasionally miss short; I usually miss pithy. But every once in a while... :D

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

Oh my. That is very well done. :D

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

[i]A black hole has a larger mass than the larger star it once was[/i] Perhaps you are confusing mass with density? One should be clear on the differences lest one conflate mass of verbiage with density of thought.

Tearat
Tearat

Yours or mine I would like to avoid that if you don?t mind Time to stop all this Some of us need our sleep I have to wait a bit longer its only 1 pm here

Tearat
Tearat

My reply was not so well written Stars lose mass as they age Its not like I don?t understand physics But English is a funny language The black hole has a larger mass than stars that are larger than it once was That is not always true But that does not mean it is wrong Like religion Because they all say different things none of them are right. Correct? Nope all it means is they say different things How you get all of them being wrong from some or most being wrong beats me

neilb
neilb

but it's past my bedtime.

santeewelding
santeewelding

I'd say more, but that would involve us in a fun discussion of teleological organization of mind.

neilb
neilb

Where did you get that snippet of disinformation from?

santeewelding
santeewelding

I tried so hard to hide the before -- predication -- and bamboozle with the after.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

I thought you where going to say: 'Occasionally, two, but the drugs usually wear off..'

neilb
neilb

"one of me". Neil :) Occasionally, two, but the drugs usually put a stop to that...

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

I thought you were 'one of us'. :p

Tearat
Tearat

I see no reason to explain it to you None of you would understand It would be stupid of me to think anything else But here is a hint I never said the contents of the bible or any of the others was true You lot assumed that I was saying it was true I know it is not true except for the historical events Mycroft I said testimony because of the names given the books You know old and new testament To bad if you don?t like it Get over it Before you start moaning I wrote There is more than one way of looking at things Words have more than one meaning

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

just starting to get fun :0 I was trying to stay out of it, then I commented cause I was bored :0 -- but it wasnt bad. Then techno-sh!t decided to start in, so I had to oblige.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

You were calling people trolls before anyone said anything bad. You also called me a troll BEFORE I said anything bad. I was mostly staying out of this, made a couple of off-topic comments when you started this troll fetish of ours. However, you seem too stupid to even remember your own words, name calling, etc.. This makes you much more a stupidf**k than anyone else here. I cant even remember the last time I thought someone was as much a stupid moronic a$$ as you.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

It's a good thing we're not slapping Palmie anymore. He'd have been through about 8 hard hats during the course of this discussion. Why don't all the rational people get off the bridge and go their merry ways?

Tearat
Tearat

If you want to troll that?s your problem Don?t start crying about it when someone gets pissed off and tells you that Like could give a damn W2ktechman you are just as thick as OTR It was never about anyone disagreeing with me If you lot want to set traps for others and they get pissed at you Have the guts to take it like a man I have a sense of humour But not for trolls Nice post by the way No trolling in it was there Words used f**king moron. Thanks for that Hits up. If I tried that with my medication I would be dead and you would be happy that I was. Right? Go F**k yourself. Thanks again for that F**king loser. More of the same My house has no basement Who made you lot the TR sheriff

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

Just because you have no sense of humor doesnt make everyone else a troll you dimwitted stupid sh!t. Only a f**king moron like yourself hits up and posts like crazy to everyone, constantly trying to push your opinion, and if someone disagrees, they are a troll. Who is the one with the troll like behaviour here? Who is the one that takes the most offense if everyone doesnt bow down to your judgement (which is inconsistant at best anyway)? Go F**k yourself since you love yourself so much, and nobody else would. You are such a f**king loser that you keep posting the stupidest sh!t and cant believe that anyone would question it! Go back to your sily basement and jerk off to your Luke Skywalker poster, so the rest of us wont need to endure your pathetic attempt at thought processes.

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

was intended, Techno Rat. There may well be [i]another life[/i], but you broached reality. Now, I ask, is [i]another life[/i] real? Or is this life real, or are both lives real? If both lives are real, what distinguishes one life from the other? Your defining me as a troll, does not make me one. Only my defining me as a troll makes me a troll. etu

Tearat
Tearat

Keep it up you two Show me how well you can Troll Good skills Yes there is another life Hint it?s not the Internet There is a fine line between humour and malice Cross it and find out If you need a guide Show what you wrote to your family and friends Try it with your boss If the only friends you have are in chat forums you don?t have a life Get one I know you don?t give a crap So don?t be surprised if you get BUGGER OFF TOLL If you reply to my posts There many others I will enjoy talking to that have not replied in this discussion Keep it up your almost there. Not far to become trolls I have not read OTR reply And will not OTR this is for you BUGGER OFF TOLL

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

And how is this trolling? I was just adding a little humor to this thread in this sorry a$$ state that you helped make it. If ya cant handle it, go back to the basement, I bet your blow up doll is missing you -- ken is it?

Tearat
Tearat

Nothing but crap returned You are so thick You still believe I am some sort of religious nut What makes you think anyone would want someone as thick as you as a member of any of the churches? They are better off with out you Do you rocket scientists actually think anything you say will make any deference to some one who believes in god No not me dummy I don?t give a crap what you say You can write what ever you want as a reply Scream shout call me what ever you like I wont read it There will be nothing of any importance Don?t mail me Don?t bother replying to me anywhere else troll

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

truly funny, and a classic to hold over Tammy's head for a while :^0

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

I dont wanna hear your sh!t so early in the morning :^0 :^0

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

a second account, so you can argue with yourself online :^0

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

There will be consequences, there are for me and everyone else who chooses to post here. I still think you'd benefit from therapy. I don't say that to be mean. Your pain medication may be clouding your thinking more than you realize. Leave, stay who cares? Put the rant format aside and be for-real for a change. You're in a fairly well established community and you're not going to change this community by continued ranting and raving about your favorite topic. You haven't changed my thinking about religion being good one iota, in fact you've bolstered my refusal to become involved in any form of organized religion. If you can't see how you'd drive reasonable people away from religion then you lack insight into how your actions affect others. That's part of being in a decompensation episode too. An unwillingness to think that maybe you could be wrong in your words and deeds. There's no shame in going to therapy. I've let it be known that I go. I'd go more often too if I could afford it. It's been very beneficial for me. At least I can tolerate people a lot easier than I used to. I suffer from insomnia. As far as illnesses or problems go insomnia is pretty mild. Getting a good nights sleep lets me deal with the daily bullshlt better. For you, there's an old saying, I don't know what your problem is but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce. :^0 I think you've got a problem. Maybe it's from hanging out in your mother's basement too long. Maybe it's from your pain pills but if you ask me there's a problem communicating well with others and that may be a sign of something else that's wrong. My opinion. Seek professional help. Not an MD but a psychiatrist or at the very least a psychologist. Be real, open and honest when talking to them, Good luck finding a good one but do try to find one.

Tearat
Tearat

You tell me not to ask you questions So when I answer them for you You tell me you don?t like it when I answer my own questions So you don?t want me to ask any questions Is that what you are saying You can post your own answers Go right ahead you can ignore my answers if you like My acting must be better than I thought if you think I have multiple personality disorder Before you start telling me off for acting I was just doing what was suggested in the reply?s I have seen throughout this discussion Some of them were yours Do I have multiple personality disorder? I don?t know Hang on while I ask my other self Nope he said there?s nothing wrong we all agree (Need to laugh after reading your reply) I can tone it down But I got the impression that anything goes in these religious discussions I got the impression it didn?t matter if the other person was offended I didn?t know you had to treat some people better than the others If you are someone who should be treated better than the others I will say sorry now Sorry OnTheRopes You tell me what the rules are for these types of discussions I don?t want to offend anyone again You lot are so damn picky How the hell is someone meant to know with you all acting like you don?t give a damn and saying what ever you want? Do you lot set traps so that some unknowing fool will wander into them Some people just piss me off Yes I am annoyed now If this is how it is at TR why would I bother hanging around That reply is from my one and only very much annoyed personality Another thing I did not think you were a troll But you were acting just like one Now you tell me it was not an act There were others doing the same thing I was dumb enough to think they were acting I would like to thank you all for your performances You sure fooled me You lot have proven one of the things I wrote These things always get out of hand Someone always gets hurt Guess it must have been me Good one the jokes on me You can all have a good laugh now I don?t expect any of you to give a crap about that What?s next? Don?t let the door hit me on the ass as I leave Do you want some cheese with that wine? Normally I would laugh at that Offering cheese to a rat is funny But I have lost my sense of humour I take pills for pain if you must know They can slow me down on some days There is a chance that your reply is more of the stupid game that has been played here If that is true Then you will reply with something like before ?Do you think I actually read any of your blather?? You want know what is good for me I think what may be best for me is to forget about TR But I will wait and see what reply?s I get to this

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

In an earlier post I suggested that you seek therapy. I didn't do that with a malicious attitude but with all sincerity. There's something in your writing that just doesn't ring true, as if you've got a multiple personality disorder or something. That's just my armchair psychoanalysis but your writing style, to me, leaves a lot to be desired. Mine sux too but at least I can tone it down a bit. I'm fairly certain that you'll be offended again now that I, again, have recommended professional help. Go on a tirade against me if you feel the need but seriously, I think that you could benefit from seeing a psychiatrist. If you expect someone to sit and debate points with you when you ask and answer your own questions I've gotta hunch that it's just not going to happen. I've used the term elsewhere on this site, I believe that you're decompensating, substituting your fantasies for reality and I also believe that during a true decompensation episode you're quite unlikely to see it and will instead rail and rant against it. Call me a troll if it makes you feel better. I think that I'm being open and honest when I say that I think you could use a little bit of professional help. You're out there dude. Way out. Even if you can't see it I believe eveyone else can. I'm telling you for your own good as that's the way I see it.

Tearat
Tearat

Keep adding to the offence I bet you didn?t even know you had offended me I bet you don?t even know how It was before the imagined offence that I supposedly committed against you But why would you care How you feel is the most important thing Screw everyone else right? Next time instead of going off your tree Ask some questions will you It is obvious you have no clue about what I am trying to tell you ?People like you drive people like me away from religion. It appears to me that you can't see outside of yourself to see how you affect others. I'm going to say that that's typical. You offend, supposedly without meaning to offend, and you do it all in the name of some mysterious invisible being. I'm not going to explain how and why I see it that way as my experience shows me that people like you just don't get it.? What the hell are you talking about? That is almost the same as what I have been trying to tell you Except the invisible being When was I talking about doing anything in the name of god? Stop imagining offence I was not trying to sound like any sort of astounding intellect or superior in any way ?I've grown to find you offensive? You were offending me with your self centred reply?s long before that happened Anyone with the kind of anger you are showing is in need of therapy. None of what we talked about has anything to with my beliefs about religion or god Your side of it was all about you and how I had made you feel Did I tell you how I felt or how you had offended me? I will now Your first offence was when you assumed I was having fun in my reply to santeewelding, which was a reply to an insult he/she had thrown at me http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=274687&messageID=2609759 Thank you for that Fun aside Has more than one meaning It is used in more than one way Its good to know you think insulting someone is some sort of fun Why you would reply to something you did not understand is beyond me Making an assumption is not a good way to start The next was your attempt to use what had happened to you in the past as an excuse for your behaviour It was a reason not an excuse It is an insult to others who have had simular experiences I am not so cold as to not care about what has happened to you or anyone else I get the impression from you that you think I don?t give a damn I cannot remember how many times you used The end justifies the means Or two wrongs make a right In your reply?s Thanks for that they offend me Your attempts to make this about my religious beliefs offends me I see no point in discussing anything with you I don?t believe it will go beyond what is important to you So when you want to talk about something other than yourself and how you have been wronged let me know Then I will see if I give a damn Thanks a lot OTR Have a nice life

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

Pretend that I do if it makes you feel better. People like you drive people like me away from religion. It appears to me that you can't see outside of yourself to see how you affect others. I'm going to say that that's typical. You offend, supposedly without meaning to offend, and you do it all in the name of some mysterious invisible being. I'm not going to explain how and why I see it that way as my experience shows me that people like you just don't get it. If you think that your verbose replies and questions make you look like some astounding intellect, to me at least you're sadly mistaken. I've grown to find you offensive and I'm certain that you'll never see it in your writings. Don't bother trying to contact me via peermail so that we can 'work this out' as there's nothing to work out. I don't like you. End of story. Think about getting some therapy. It was my hope earlier that you'd leave me alone. It's still my hope. We've nothing to discuss. Don't ask me a bunch of questions or express your dismay to me. I don't care. Get it? As I see it I am close to being diametrically opposed to your belief system. You are only going to generate animosity if you continue plus I've better things to do with my time than answer your questions and soothe your worries about what 'the world' is going to make of religious posts at TR. I've no control over what the world thinks and when it comes to religion the world can just kiss my shiny red hiney. I want nothing to do with it and you. Is that clear enough for you? Know that I may choose to ignore further replies from you as our online 'relationship' is just going to get worse from here. Have a nice life.

Tearat
Tearat

I hope we will be able to discuss other things without the influence of religion or what results from it I find god a strange subject for scientific or technically minded people to discuss I know that most of what is blamed on religion is politics Or the work of a bunch of a**holes who think their beliefs or faith gives them some sort of immunity or right I know that almost no one understands what is written in the different holy texts Some of them believe their ignorance is a shield Anyway don?t let other people tell you what you should believe Almost all are wrong or haven?t a clue about the subject I have to wonder why I bother with this stuff sometimes No one really understands what it is they are discussing There is so much that has been taught wrong or is incorrect It is happening in everything not just religion Why do some scientists think they have the right to give a conclusion that is based on theory?

Tearat
Tearat

I don?t have all the answers No one does. That is one of the points I was trying to make Most of what we know about the universe and how it started is theory People forget that I was not speaking for any of the religions I was trying to tell you and others Stop trying to destroy what other people use to cope with the problems they face You do not want to be the one responsible for someone else committing suicide or harming someone else No I am not saying that that would happen or that you should never say anything that may hurt someone else Just be careful about what you say Others read these discussions TR is part of a WORLD wide web Is that so hard to understand? Why would anyone want to make fun of something that others hold dear and true? It amazes me how low some people will go You may have been damaged by religion. I don?t know which because you don?t say Not everyone has the same experience as you Try not to forget that Hatred can be very hard to overcome But it is your hatred not others Does that statement mean I don?t care about what happened to you? No it does not But it could be taken that way The fact is you hate something and it affects your life Only you can do something about that Just make sure you don?t hurt anyone else because of your hatred That would not be fair or right You have the right to feel anyway you like But you have no right to screw up the lives of others Is it religion or politics that is damaging other peoples lives? Yes there is politics being used by so called religious people It is happening everywhere all the time Politics has no place in any religion at anytime and anywhere OTR I don?t think you should get over it If it?s affecting your life you need to do something about it There is not much anyone else can do for you except help I must say You are not in a position to judge me or the value of my words You do not know me Or anything that may have happened in my life That was one of the points I was trying to make We do not know why someone will post about his or her beliefs Is it wise to make assumptions about them? Is it wise to treat them like a fruitcake? You are not talking to that person directly Does that make you any less responsible? People ask for help in many ways Trolling is never the right way to deal with someone I do not want anyone to think of me as the loud or quiet voice of reason speaking for God and religion I want people to stop and think about what they are doing in these types of discussions Nobody can know how other people will take what they write It happened with what I wrote and how you understood it The ?I?m all right and screw everybody else? thinking has no place in this type of discussion So does ?I don?t care it doesn?t affect me I can say what ever I like? Just to remind you I was/am not speaking for religion I am not trying to police the TR forums I want people to realise that what they write on this and other forums affects others not just the person they are replying to Those others could be anywhere in the world Never take something that affects the lives and wellbeing of others lightly Don?t damage others in your attempts to destroy what you hate The person opposing you is not the only one who could be affected by what you say or do Doctors have it right First do no harm Above all else don?t let it become trolling No I don?t want to hear about what happened to you A public forum is not the place You have friends and family for that They should be the ones you turn to first Good luck (We need all the luck we can get) Steve Ps I am human I make mistakes How you handle your own and the mistakes of others says a lot about who you are

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

I'll freely admit, I rarely get what Santee is trying to say. So? I just see you speaking for religion as though you're the only one whose voice counts for anything. If it turns your crank to think that go right ahead but it's just not true. Your voice is no more or less deserving to be heard than mine. If I want to blaspheme God for a joke I will and I really don't care what you want to make of it. You may think you've all of the answers for yourself and that's cool. I hope you find comfort in them. Your answers and thoughts are, again, no more or less important than others. So's ya' know, I've been damaged by religion. Frankly came close to losing my life over it. You never forget something like that. I see religion damaging other peoples lives too and that's so sad because then folks like you come along and act as if we should just get over it or don't have a right to feel and think the way we do. You are NOT in any position to judge me or the value of my words. That's for everyone else to decide for themselves. Do what you want, doesn't matter to me. If you want to set yourself up to be the quiet voice of reason speaking for God and religion I suggest you pace yourself and withhold judgement of others. That way you won't come off as some holier than thou nitwit which I think you're starting to look like. Just a suggestion. Feel free.

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

Techno Rat, that you are wearing your life jacket.

Tearat
Tearat

Is not talking about religion What do you think he was talking about when he wrote? ?This measure of "wrong" I need to come and learn all about it.? It may be to deep for others to comprehend

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

Are you serious? Decide that for everybody all by yourself or are you following scripture?

Tearat
Tearat

Are you saying you need to learn how to be wrong? I thought you were an expert at being wrong Fun aside Religion affects the lives of many people It is a serous subject that should not be taken lightly If you are having fun you should not be involved

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