Broadband

Australian researcher finds a way to make broadband 100 times faster

John Papandriopoulos, research fellow at the University of Melbourne, has developed an algorithm that reduces interference in ADSL connections, essentially making broadband net speeds 100 times faster.

John Papandriopoulos, a research fellow at the University of Melbourne, has developed an algorithm that reduces interference in ADSL connections, essentially making broadband Net speeds 100 times faster.

An excerpt from The Age:

Most ADSL services are effectively limited to speeds between 1 Mbps to 20 Mbps, but if Dr Papandriopoulos' technology succeeds this will be closer to 100 Mbps.

Stanford University's John Cioffi was one of the external experts reviewing the research that made up Dr Papandriopoulos' PhD thesis.

The algorithm developed by the researcher minimizes electromagnetic interference and maximizes data transfer speed on the lines.

John's work was reviewed by none other than Stanford University engineering professor John Cioffi, the man behind the first DSL modems.

The research could essentially benefit any network infrastructure based on copper lines and goes to prove that, while the next generation of Internet may be some years away, much work can be done to improve the capacity that we already have in place.

More information:

152 comments
davea0511
davea0511

Convert the signal to something that completely bypasses electromagnetic crosstalk. Duh! How long have these telco's been around? No wonder cable is kicking their butts. They've been resting on their laurels for too long. Easy money. I switched to vonage when my line went dead and our telco was going to charge me $100 to come out and fix it. Hmmm... lost my business, and I was paying them $30 per month. What a bunch of idiots. No wonder the telco's hadn't develop this obvious technology yet. They're stupid.

Absolutely
Absolutely

The implication that this new algorithm "completely bypasses electromagnetic crosstalk" is false; it reduces crosstalk. The author Ruben Francia correctly refrains from the word "minimize" because the public announcement does not include a formal proof that his algorithm is the best of all possible algorithms. It is just faster than what's now commonplace, and the inventor and his investors are only stating that DSL speeds will approach their theoretical maximum. Note the use of the phrase "up to." If the improvement is even an order or magnitude, customers are (probably correctly) estimated to be unlikely to complain that our effective bandwidth is 10% less than the theoretical maximum. [i]An Australian researcher, who discovered a way to make ADSL broadband connections up to 100 times faster, has been offered a job in Silicon Valley in the US to continue his research. Dr John Papandriopoulos, the 29-year-old research fellow of University of Melbourne, has developed an algorithm to [b]reduce[/b] the electromagnetic interference that slows down ADSL connections.[/i] http://preview.tinyurl.com/yprqq4 [u]Attempting[/u] what Dr. P has accomplished [u]is[/u] intuitively obvious. Obviously, the means to [u]accomplish[/u] it are not obvious. Also, I dislike telcos as much as anybody I have ever known or heard of, with the possible exception of the Comcast hammer lady (http://preview.tinyurl.com/2vj5vl), but I defy you to find an electrical engineer who wouldn't have liked to have his name on this invention. They all didn't have the ability or the discipline to do it. This guy did. It's a significant accomplishment, and not having done it first does not imply that anybody else is "stupid." They're just not the best!

davea0511
davea0511

I never said he was stupid, nor did I even insinuate such. Of course he isn't stupid, but the telcos are in fact stupid, and if you can't see that then maybe you're cut from the same cloth. It's not that I don't like telcos. It's not that I think they're evil. The fact is though that they've foolishly and lazily squandered away an incredible monopoly and quietly watched as an entirely new technology was created from scratch to take over the future of communications while they'd become lazy assuming that if they rested on their laurels and not upgrade their infrastructure until it was too late (at a small fraction of the cost of starting a new business and technology from scratch) while continuing to roll in the dough with exorbitant fees while providing very little service in return to the customer. My goodness where did they sock all that money away? Now that risky upstart called cable is eating their lunch in a major way. That's stupid. I'm sure this guy has figured out how to work around the crosstalk, and more power to him, but the article says in the very title: 100 times faster, not 10% faster. So don't slam me for taking the article for what it says and for not summarizing it in the exacting terminology you thing is necessary. Gee Whiz.

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

[i]...the entertainment provided by clueless newbies is short lived. [/i] The place needs a few light bulbs. ;) The sharpies are sharp, though. I like that.

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

broken-hearted skill? Master that and never be whole-hearted again. Two cents.

santeewelding
santeewelding

Along with the crack of dawn and a broken heart...these are skills I have not mastered.

deepsand
deepsand

Besides, there are many there who are badly in need of having their lips welded together.

santeewelding
santeewelding

You have to remember, you are talking to a welder with one big eye in the middle of his forehead. He has no idea about anything.

seanferd
seanferd

:^0 Or, you interest does not override your reluctance to dive into a pile of insanity, at least. I'll have to check it out more, lurk around a bit, time permitting.

santeewelding
santeewelding

One glance tells me that it is a free-for-all. You'd have to pay me more than I make now -- in cash -- to plunge into all that.

seanferd
seanferd

I can't imagine how I missed Controversial social Issues in there. That should stick out like a sore thumb to my perceptual filters, especially in a sea of business-related words. Thank you, santee and boxy. Edit: I see, hadn't visited the lobby yet, but had gone straight to the twentieth floor, somehow.

seanferd
seanferd

And under which forum topics would I likely find you folks there? (Aside from deepsand telling the mods where the site is broken :^0 .) It does look somewhat interesting, but SEO and marketing are not really my cuppa. Well, except when the discussion turns to critique of marketing (cf. Techdirt, ZDNet's Jennifer Leggio). Good to see you around, deepsand. Your post here was just what was needed. I'm still following this thread (go figure), and didn't really have a good response to Dave0's comment, but I was waiting for one.

santeewelding
santeewelding

Serendipitous timing on my part, checking into your V7N thread about God and your latest post. The tautological is the way into it.

boxfiddler
boxfiddler

I'm getting away with murder over there. And a few of them are liking it! :0

deepsand
deepsand

is precisely what V7N is badly in need of; and, would in fact be well received by a goodly number there, particularly among the Moderators and regularly attending Mentors. And, who better than you to deliver such?

santeewelding
santeewelding

I am your newbie, but -- big difference -- with a clue, like you; as to, the clue part on how we are. I have always thought that you broach that, cautiously and deferentially as you do. For the other, technical part, I listen to those such as yourself, giving a joyous finger when I sense cluelessness (I'm getting a red, squiggly line on that one; so, I'll go with my own clue). I sensed that what I saw of the folk at V7N would not accommodate an existential asteroid strike.

deepsand
deepsand

How come no posts from you at V7N? That place could use some interesting conversation; the entertainment provided by clueless newbies is short lived.

santeewelding
santeewelding

Gonna stick around longer this time? Whole lot of water done gone under the bridge.

deepsand
deepsand

This after failing to respond to the earlier posts of either Absolutely or myself. Let's see if he rises to the occasion on a timely basis this time around.

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

A bit late, aren't you? Absolutely dropped out almost as long ago.

deepsand
deepsand

As for stupidity, to first declare that telcos are stupid - a fact belied by their great successes - and then suggest that Absolutely may share such trait, is no more than an [i]ad hominem[/i] attack. Not only do you not read carefully, you can't even be civil.

deepsand
deepsand

They've had a tough time selling their Triple-Play package here, owing to their poor reliability, so that one would still need another telephone service provider in order to report an outage of ComCrap's IP Telephony service to them. As for J. Papandriopoulos, various publications of his can be viewed at http://jpap.andriopo.ulos.org/research.phtml . The one which seems to be most relevant here is an abstract entitled "[b]Low-Complexity Distributed Algorithms for Spectrum Balancing in Multi-User DSL Networks[/b]," at http://jpap.andriopo.ulos.org/papers/icc-2006-dsl.pdf , which I've not yet had the time to read.

deepsand
deepsand

Both DSL and cable use [b]electro-magnetic waves[/b] as the means of propagation. The algorithm here addressed has to do with the dynamic allocation of the signal packets amongst the available channels within the allotted spectrum, not some new and/or different method of propagation.

JoeRJr
JoeRJr

As great as this "new" discover may be or sound... and it may be great substance, or it could be great B.S.... Always keep in mind that our North American cable and other modem speeds are a rip-off of the various countries involved, including the United States. Our "high speed" broadband speeds are a laugh and a fraud when compared to what the UK, France and Germany already have or will very soon. Their speeds already are far superior to ours, and our lack of real speeds WILL hamper all as individuals, businesses and even as a country. In the USA and other like countries, we pay for "high speed" that is only in the way of a marketing gimmick, and near false-advertising. In reality, every little addition to our slow speeds , especially that outgoing speed, is charged for at nothing short of exorbitant fees and rates. And the speeds we users are charged for are a mere fraction of that enjoyed by the Euro and other broadband areas, and their fees and prices are actually much lower than ours as well.

davea0511
davea0511

So life sucks in the USA because speeds are low? Look, the roads you drive on here relatively suck too ... do you know why? Because the population density in the US is a small fraction of Europe. It's a package deal. If you hate it so much why don't you move to Europe where communication speeds rock, the roads are all good, and there's wall-to-wall people and there's nowhere to run.

JCitizen
JCitizen

I read some of the links; thanks. Perhaps I should have been thinking of using this tech like TV cable. With all that bandwidth, why was I limiting my thinking to internet? TV programing is getting more popular on the internet, but with this it could be more like HDTV! I still don't think this will affect companies that are already using light fiber, though.

deepsand
deepsand

discrete multi-channel communications in the RF spectrum only, where EM signals are generated by electronics, i.e. the use of electrons, rather than by photonics, the direct use of photons. While EM signals are of course mediated by photons, they are photons with much longer wave lengths than those employed in photonics. Should this newly acclaimed algorithm prove out, audio-video streaming via copper will take a great leap forward.

deepsand
deepsand

We've a claim, with neither any substantiation nor a description of the algorithm. Why even bother with this "article?"

dave.bailey
dave.bailey

"One hundred times faster" seems to have morphed into "up to five times faster" ... or have I failed to notice the emporer's new clothes?

JCitizen
JCitizen

Most subscribers couldn't handle 100 times the speed; hence I suspect five times, is more practical/realistic.

m4rk.gm4il
m4rk.gm4il

GPU in Video cards made graphics processing faster. If we can integrate a CPU in a network interface card, the result will be faster network access.

dryflies
dryflies

network speed is a function of pushing bits accross a wire. graphics is a function of manipulating bits and putting them in a frame. the bottleneck on networking is not the ability to assemble the bits and place them on the wire it is the ability of the wire to accept those bits and propogate them to the other end. the bandwidth of the media controls all. with graphics a faster processor makes all the difference.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

What about putting a processor on a NIC to compress the data further and take the compression load off of the main CPU??? That should allow for the system to 'speed up' a bit, and add a bit more throughput speed. However, it would likely be barely noticeable... But it should work! Otherwise I agree with your answer.

deepsand
deepsand

As onboard compression/decompression must be symmetric, i.e. the same process must be used at both ends, such is, perforce, an externality with regards to the modulation & encoding methods employed in transmission. My point was that said methods themselves serve as a [i]standard, intrinsic[/i] means of accomplishing such task.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

you are bringing up the conversion for the DSL, where I am talking about the data itself. A NIC card breaks up data into packets. The CPU compresses the data before sending to the NIC. What my mention was, that an onboard NIC Processor could allow the main CPU to send the data before compression to the NIC card, then the NIC can compress the data leaving the CPU available for other tasks. However, I also mentioned that it would likely not make much of a difference, so it would be too much of an expediture for hardly noticing anything.

JCitizen
JCitizen

but then that doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. Most people use a DSL modem between the DSL line and their ethernet port. An internal DSL PCI card would already process the signal on the card. I would believe this and any routers using old DSL technology would have to be replaced for this to work. Maybe someone will weigh in and correct me.

deepsand
deepsand

used, in a manner similar to that used by analog modems, fax machines and cell phones. The current limiting fator is the cross-talk between the various channels, which is caused by heterodyning, the process whereby 2 or more signals combine to form signals that are their sums and differences. For example, given 2 signals of frequencies 10 Hz and 100 Hz, mixing the 2 will produce 2 new signals at 90 Hz and 110 Hz, so that there now exist 4 signals in total. Since both of these 2 new signals are relatively far from the original signal at 10 Hz, any data carried by it will be easily recovered. However, as both of the 2 new signals are relatively close to the original at 100 Hz, recovering its data will require the use of a very narrow band-pass filter, so as to reject interference from the 2 newly created signals. Clearly, the more original signals, and the closer together they are, the more difficult it becomes to avoid interference from the heterodyned signals. Furthermore, the higher the signal strength, the greater such interference. As it is desirable to maintain a high signal strength, so as to be able to differentiate between the desired signal and that of external noise, thereby allowing for greater usable transmission distances, there is clearly a trade-off between the abilities to discriminate against external noise and that from cross-talk.

Rae_L_Carling
Rae_L_Carling

Does this mean that someone like me who lives in a remote area shouldn't bother with installing a satellite dish and signing up for 24 to 36 months or are we talking long term improvements

JCitizen
JCitizen

are saying that DSL has nothing to do with regular phone line service. But I always understood the only difference between DSL and telephone line was the voltage and the amount of insulation on the line. I came from the sticks out in the US and we didn't need no stinking Ma Bell to tell us we got no internet. We built it our selves and started an association. In fact we beat Sprint getting fiber optic into the ground and now rent it out to the big phone companies. But if you got no land line phone service in the outback it means you might as well fire up your satellite dish!

deepsand
deepsand

Voice service uses a single channel at the low end of the spectrum, 300 Hz to 3000 Hz. That the bandwidth is so severely truncated, compared to that of the average human ear, is the reason that ones "telephone" voice sounds so different from its actual timbre. DSL consists of many channels, at much higher, inaudible frequencies. Thus, both voice and data services co-exist on the same physical wiring.

JCitizen
JCitizen

Perhaps now governments will be interested in deregulating enough to upgrade to DSL for instance like folks in Thailand. Like that fella mcrogerm..

mliang83
mliang83

It does not matter what ISP use or how fast they got, as long as you are still in Dial-up connection. You will stay in 56k, no matter what.

JCitizen
JCitizen

doesn't mean the old junk computer can hack it. I guess I assumed that it would be like 100Mbp ethernet. Except without the gateway/firewall/router/switch/(you name it), bottle neck. The last Gigabyte card I bought blew out and now only puts out 10Mps which is all the old systems could handle anyway.

deepsand
deepsand

both in the present article and in other online mentions of such, one can but speculate. As said algorithm is sketchily described as employing "channel hopping," and assuming that it employs the currently generally used encoding & modulation methods, OFDM (Orthogonal Frequency-Division Multiplexing) & DMT (Discrete Multi-tone Modulation), along with the same channel width (4312.5 Hz) & spectrum (10-100 kHz), then it may well be possible to deploy such with little more than, and possibly even without, a change of DSL modems. Bear in mind, though, that delivering data at such higher rate does not guarantee that ones local machine will be capable of fully utilizing such.

JCitizen
JCitizen

as I asked you this elsewhere in this discussion. Could this new tech be implemented by simply switching out modems [compliant with the new science] with the old ones at both ends - ISP and client? Again I realize the article is lacking enough information, and any answer would be pure speculation at best.

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