Emerging Tech

Ex-security pro to plead guilty to running huge botnet

Security consultant John Schiefer, 26, has agreed to plead guilty to four counts of fraud and wiretap charges. U.S. federal prosecutors claim he operated a 250,000 PC botnet by night, which he used to steal information and money from users of PayPal.

Security consultant John Schiefer, 26, has agreed to plead guilty to four counts of fraud and wiretap charges. U.S. federal prosecutors claim he operated a 250,000 PC botnet by night, which he used to steal information and money from users of PayPal.

In the first botnet persecution of its kind in the United States, Schiefer is facing the statutory maximum fine of $1.75 million and up to 60 years in prison.

According to ZDNet UK:

The malicious software developed by Schiefer accessed the Windows system feature "Protected Store," which encrypts and stores passwords for online accounts. Investigators are yet to determine the full amount of money stolen from victim's accounts.

Schiefer also distributed software on behalf of a Dutch internet-advertising company, Simpel Internet. He installed the software on 150,000 computers, netting him $19,000 in commissions, but did so without users' consent.

He is expected to be arraigned on December 3.

Additional reading:

Now, 60 years in the slammer is a long time. While it doesn't excuse the crime, the fact is that the botnet created by Schiefer is considered relatively small compared to other botnets, such as the notorious Storm worm with an estimated 20 million infected PCs.

If he gets 60 years, does this mean that the mastermind of the Storm worm deserves multiple life sentences? Also, do you think what Schiefer did has tarnished the IT profession in any way?

As an IT professional yourself, what is your opinion of this matter?

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About

Paul Mah is a writer and blogger who lives in Singapore, where he has worked for a number of years in various capacities within the IT industry. Paul enjoys tinkering with tech gadgets, smartphones, and networking devices.

80 comments
ojeda
ojeda

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time. Multiple life sentences is always humorous. In my next life, I'm going to sell real estate. If 60 years is the best he could get for guilty plea, then he needs a new attorney. If my business, 5% of healthcare practitioners have a problem with narcotics that they handle everyday. In IT, he's in the top or bottom 5% of his class. Guilty as charged your honor. And it's not what someone expects of you. It's what you expect of yourself.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

While there's no condoning the actions, 60 years is a typical scare tactic of the US legal system. They like to make ridiculous examples of people, see Marc Emery for that one. I do think 60 years is a bit much, that's a couple of murder sentences+ in Canada. I do think he should be punished and jail seems to be the answer to all things undesireable these days. Lock 'em up and forget about them, out of sight is out of mind and all that. As for past offenses that have been treated lightly in comparison, that is the way our sad legal systems work. Judgement is generally based on the outcome of previous cases, punishments and compared to others around teh world before a sentence is handed down. In the case of IT, there are no such benchmarks of relevance with which to compare. Yes thee have been worse computer crimes, yet the impact of them is becoming greater and greater with the amount of commerce conduscted online. What used ot be a relatively harmless annoyance has now become a crime trade. Perhaps earlier sentences were too light, but to go to the absolute opposite extreme is not an answer. In short, our legal systems don't know what to do, nobody really does. You never know, 10 years from now a 60 year sentence for such a crime may seem to be minute. They may say, DEATH! The last guy only got 60 years, why not retry him and sentence him to death too?

GaryGi
GaryGi

The SOB abused his power. He ripped off people, good or bad is relevant. We work for money, we live to spend it. Any SOB who STEALS IT, regardless how, especially in such a GREEDY way, he deserves to lose his life of freedom. This fine crap is ridiculous. He did the crime, let his TIME make him deal with it, no HIS MONEY THAT HE STOLED FROM OTHERS, pay for it.

paulmah
paulmah

If he gets 60 years, does this mean that the mastermind of the Storm worm deserves multiple life sentences? Also, do you think what Schiefer did has tarnished the IT profession in any way? As an IT professional yourself, what is your opinion of this matter?

Jaqui
Jaqui

some are alreasy calling for his death. look at the beginning of the discussion. [ 2nd post above mine calling w2k a whacko ]

mtodorov3_69
mtodorov3_69

It is so easy to judge the guy, that it can't be also good. What were actually his motives, we don't know. Was it pure unsatiable greed, or his daughter's medical bill was high enough to ruin him and let his child die - law says the same sentence for both, but these are hardly the same acts. This time I will not judge. We are not professionals flawless and inerrant in speech and doing, but flesh and blood, corruptible stuff.

2WiReD
2WiReD

1. please read above and indite the US government for stealing all the oil from Iraq. 2 rapists get about 10 years MAX in your revolving door criminal justice system.....wheres the balance? first priority should be that ALL his illegal earnings are returned to the rightfull owners, 2nd should be government and private sector combining forces to tackle bot net threats, not wasting $30,000 a year for 60 years or whatever it costs to keep someone like him in prison

famosbrown
famosbrown

I don't think this will tarnish the image of I.T., but will boost awareness of who to hire and the steps to check the background of this person. It states he is a for security pro, so this could boost the industry hiring os I.T. security to combat the rogues out there...it's the same way unethical hackers have increased the demand for security and ethical hacker job opportunities.

LANman28
LANman28

I've only been in the field for about a year and with three years of schooling, but I've been getting pretty irritated with endpoint and network security. I was trained in the service to think about security and safety FOR MYSELF. Before a live-fire training session, we were reminded that we were all unofficial safety officers. I do my best to keep that mentality when it comes to privacy and security in the information/computer industry now. Perhaps those of us who work with computers on a daily basis need to spend even just a few moments with users (as the opportunity arises) to "evangelize" the need for discretion when it comes to using a PC? Some encouragement to users that they too can begin to think security when using a PC is in order? Just a thought...

Dr Dij
Dr Dij

early reports that he was as security pro are inaccurate, he was a help desk worker.

$dunk$
$dunk$

As I see it, stealing money via a computer is less serious than armed robbery or burglary, since no lives are put at risk. However, each offense should carry a penalty. If the penalty for fraud is 1 year per offense, then if he committed fraud 10,000 times, then 10,000 years is the penalty. Almost just as bad as the stealing of money is the insertion of bots on people's computers. I know of so many people who can't even use their computer any more because they are so infected with spyware and viruses. Thus, in my opinion, installing spyware and/or viruses is at least equivalent to vandalism. If the penalty for that is 60 days and he installed 250,000 bots that sentence would add up to around 42,000 years. Thus, a 52,000 year sentence is not inappropriate.

john.decoville
john.decoville

This is the same as a Customs official taking bribes and allowing vehicles through loaded with drugs or illegals. Or a Bank Security Officer giving access to bank robbers for millions. This man should do some serious time, especially since he was a security officer. Bang! Clang! Goodbye ! --John

ITTechAdviser
ITTechAdviser

Yes. I believe that this type of thing hurts the overall reputation of the I.T. Industry and has unmeasurable potential for harm to the bottom line of every I.T. worker and Business. In our business the only real security anyone has, especially our clients, is the integrity of those that are professionals in the industry and those that are entrusted with providing the support and services that people rrelying on I.T. depend on. Integrity is Security. If you have been around for long enough you know that every system is vulnerable and only a lack of effort by someone is what is keeping you from getting hacked. Who after a year of computer science courses can't write a concatenation algo-rhthym that will search out passwords, or create an automated script to search for registry settings, and the list goes on of the many relatively easy things that are common knowledge to professionals that the laypeople marvel at that can be used to commit crimes and cyber or computer vandalism. This hurts our industry because it is criminal behavior that all of us in the industry can be viewed as suspect of.

zlitocook
zlitocook

Why do most young it people seem to need to show their skills/dominance over the people they are supposed to help? I started late in life as a support/generalist computer person. I was active in computers before this but had to stop for personal reasons. Sorry to look back but this applies to the post. After the 90's bust most good IT people took what they could find and the people new in to the field. Ether fresh from school or just reading from on line post began to look to hackers sites. And there were a ton of them, in the early 90's there were some good sites to go to. And they did not infect your computer with malware. Now it seems that it is ok to read any one's email on the network that you control or just have fun with a user. If you are an IT person you need to be a person to be looked up to! Not a person to be feared.

m4rk.gm4il
m4rk.gm4il

Organizations that he worked with should be aware how they cultivated a person like that. His skills and trainings were all wasted. It shouldn't be given to him in the first place. It tarnished the IT security profession in a way, and it should also serve as a call for IT security persons to be aware with themselves. Constant monitoring is the key.

w.donovan
w.donovan

if people hear about this adventure, it will tarnish the reputation. It is not very big in Australia yet, but if he gets 60 years, well that is news worthy. It is a good example of what talent is out there and not being directed, but makes for a good story to clients. it will be good to find out what audit processes were missed by the organisation he worked for and why he could breach security in the first place.

Meesha
Meesha

When a Dr. has sex with his patient does it tarnish the whole medical profession? When an Engineer builds sub standard condos using sub standard concrete does this tarnish the whole engineering profession. I think you get my point. One bad apple does not ruin the basket as far as I'm concerned. There are crooks in all professions and walks of life. It's not the profession that is at fault but the individual that causes the issue. Trust is another matter altogether. Would I trust any Dr. knowing how bad some of them are? Of course not. Would I trust any Engineer to build my building? Noooo. As with anything in today's society trust is earned, re-earned and earned again. This is human nature and not specific to one walk of life.

marka
marka

Anybody in a position of information or physcial power has the ability to abuse that power. Cops, It people, banks. You name it, it can be abused. Does that abuse cause a lackluster view of the entire industry. No, but it sure will make companies pull their pants up when hiring. IT people need to be trusted as we usually have access to anything and everything (depending on position)

jc.miller
jc.miller

Although it is in no way to be accepted as "OK", we still must consider how this man has proven that we need expert IT professionals on our side when it comes to security. That was just PayPal...what if it were of a national threat, such as possibly the pentagon communications?

mikar
mikar

There usually are 1 or 2 bad apples in every bushel. There are unsavoury people in all professions (police, lawyers, judges, car salesmen, doctors, teachers, politicians, etc.) Sometimes, the temptation to make a quick buck clouds peoples view of right and wrong. No it doesn't affect IT Professionalism. Clients are just going to have to do better background checks - perhaps. Or just learn to live with it

mmullinix1
mmullinix1

Ok, yes, he should pay with time spent in prison. Yes, ALL of the money he stole should be returned to the rightful owners he stole it from. If he was a also smart/dumb enough to invest the money, the interest should then go to fighting this type of crime. Lawyers fees? They get paid enough by working for the government. Even the court appointed lawyer for the defendent. Has he ruined the IT Profession or tarnished us? No. It is known that IT Professionals are either honest or dishonest and the fall to criminality can take years or months depending on the motive. We are our own worst enemy. Period. It is up to the Ethical Professionals to remain ethical and let the idiots get caught.

tonoohay
tonoohay

Insiders are the most Trusted, and the most Dangerous. Tarnished? I sure hope so, this should be a wake-up call for NW Sec managers and Corp. legal types. "Bot" efforts seem to be like the super-bug virus in that the adaptive synergy is relative to the individual efforts & knowledge to create, against the NW design to detect and minimize impact to operations.

Eoghan
Eoghan

Security PROFESSIONAL? 26 years old? Aren't those words mutually exclusive? Gee, maybe if people would learn and hire mature security PROFESSIONALs, those of us with MORE THAN 26 years EXPERIENCE, never mind age, I'm talking EXPERIENCE, then maybe they wouldn't get burned. Let's see, average age at college graduation: 22. So 4 years and he is a security pro. Nope, he didn't tarnish the IT profession. You get what you pay for. Pay for a neophyte, you get a neophyte, and all their ethics. (Oh, that's right, neophytes haven't learned ethics yet.) Was a time when the CISSP required 7 years experience to earn it. I'd like to see it go back to that.

michael.brodock
michael.brodock

I mean surely if the guy pleaded guilty, the victims should get their money back, right? Or do the lawyers take it all and the rest goes to the government? As far as tarnishing IT, if people want to stereotype then there isn't anything you can do about that. Personally, I judge people as individuals except for maybe lawyers. ;)

The Admiral
The Admiral

Any time you have a person who goes off the deep end in the IT world and causes this, it casts a questionable doubt if the other security folks are doing what they are supposed to OR programming the next set of virus related items.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Man, what a mindset! That's classic! America: land of the free! >Accept all immigrants, if they don't become full fledged American speaking people with little to no trace of their former lives, they should be judged and deported. >Choose your elected leader in a democratic vote, yet if it is different from who I think should be elected, you should be ashamed and shunned from society for not supporting the country's leader. >It is my right to carry a gun to protect myself from bad people with the right to carry guns. > Allow freedom of religion, as long as it is good, clean, wholesome, American Christian religion. >Allow freedom of speech, so I can say whatever I want, whenever I want. Should you do the same in disagreement with me, you are traitorous and should be shunned. America land of the free: A country that encarcerates more people than any other on Earth, even more than the horribly repressive China or Russia. A man that steals money via the internet should be put to death for taking supposed millions of dollars from the American people. A man that lies and spends trillions of US tax payers dollars for his own agenda gets re-elected to run the country. But remember, of all the places in the world, everyone wants to live in America. LOL, :) where do they get this stuff! SCTV could find some real talent down south!

Roger99a
Roger99a

The Washington Post story say's he spent the $19,000 he made installing adware in his bots partying at DefCon. He was running a cyber gang and had minors working the bots for him. Read the news stories.

2WiReD
2WiReD

hes one guy that stole...how much? yet he gets 60 years??? considering what the guys in Enron, or Haliburton or Carlye would/did get for siphoning off up to billions, dosnt it look more like a punishment beating rather than a just sentence?

Eoghan
Eoghan

Where? Who has it? I'd look at Turkey and Iran first, not USA. Was the war ill-advised? Yep, you betcha. But I don't see Iraqi oil coming to USA, not a drop.

thart
thart

I've been a Network Administrator for six years now, and I've yet to see users take this seriously. IT needs to educate users on security, however they pay attention to it about as much as many of us paid attention to our coding prof's when they told us to provide good documentation. But we're missing the issue here, and that is the IT professional misusing his position and knowledge. Are we really that arrogant that we think we can use our knowledge for whatever the heck we feel like? 60 yr's may be a bit extreme (20 would be bad enough) but I think the message has been sent

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

some helpful hints around this time of year, every year. This reminds them to be careful with holiday shopping, and get used to the idea of securing their data. I know a few people that have been hit with ID theft before I started doing this, and almost all have said that they appreciate my efforts.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

targeting IT with bad rap, and making us sound much worse... Anybody could be a help desk agent. Some of them even, I have a theory, that they walk up to an unemployed person and ask "have you heard of a computer before", if they answer "yes", then they are hired....

Big Ole Jack
Big Ole Jack

are in the hands of offshore workers when we deal with most major banks and accounting firms. Don't be shocked to hear that companies are now hiring H1-B visa candidates to perform system security functions and giving them gov't security clearance to classified info they honestly have no business of knowing, yet U.S. citizens have to jump through all sorts of red tape and other bullcrap just to get clearance.

IT Security Guy
IT Security Guy

I agree that at age 26 he is not much of a security professional, but I think there will be those who say that we in IT security will manufacture a crisis is one does not exist. I hope those are very much in the minority. Maybe this will encourage the rest of the federal government ot establish proper standards for security people, similar to what DoD did, to help raise the level of knowledge so this does not happen again.

Big Ole Jack
Big Ole Jack

Force him to work in some H1-B sweatshop and endure the stench of fish and curry all day long....LOL.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

to hang him by his hair and a11s shoot each limb, causing lots and lots of pain burned to seal the gunsot and tearing wounds sliced open 1,000 times (tiny cuts) then burned to seal the wounds repeat as necessary till death occurs. If properly done, several weeks or a month should pass..... Damn, I am a sicko, arent I???

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

of when they get caught, this is what is in store for them.... Why fill the already overcrowded jails even more? Why should we have to pay for people to stay in prison for many, many years? Last I remember, was that they were letting people out 'early' in many more cases due to the overcrowding problem. Many of them would not have been eligible for some time and had been imprisoned several times for violent crimes. We should put an end to it, and rid ourselves of these people with haste.... Hmmm, maybe we will just ship 'em to Canada so that they can live really close to you! :0

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

but read the previous post again, where I explain that if it is proven... caught on tape or multiple credible witnesses... violent crime with a weapon... those are my main premesis for a speedy death. But, repeated violent crimes should be just as harsh. As for crimes that TARGET many people, they should be in another category with death as a top tier. I also think that ANYBODY in prison for Life without Parole or multiple Life sentences, should be put down as well.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

It was intended as such.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

An example of what? An extreme? "don't make me do it?!" Those are childish idle thereats, not a way to judge society. UNtil we can get it right, EVERY time, we simply cannot support a death penalty, its ignorant and ineffective if in doubt.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

No you can't just shoot 'em all and ask questions later, that's the mentlity that started the war in Iraq. There is a MAJOR problem with the detah sentence, first of all I am not against taking some a$$hole's life if he is deemed encourageable and would cost more money to keep alive. In many cases, these people on death row have not comitted a crie worthy of a death sentence, add that to the number of people found innocent after over decade on detah row, and you have a pretty sad system. Until we can, without ANY distant shadow of a doubt, PROVE that someone is guilty of a crime worthy of the death penalty, then it shouldn't be in place. We simply haven't proven ourselves responsible enough to play God, even though the US government seems to think it is God.

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

just remove the last few paragraphs and keep the first one.... Then it would have been a PERFECT POST :^0 :^0 :^0

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

that I am not against the death penalty, and that I think it takes too long in many cases to be implemented. In this particular case, I would say that it was justified as well though. Because he victimized many people.... Think about it. Off him as an example, dont tread light on e-crime...

Oktet
Oktet

"It is my right to carry a gun to protect myself from bad people with the right to carry guns." Or "It is my right to hack to protect myself from bad hackers that want to hack into my network."

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Leave the juice cranked and just puch them in the seat one after the other. The only problem is, we have a bad habit of sentencing people to death only to find out that they were innocent after their spending 15 years on death row. Take Texas for instance, in teh last 30 years, over 400 peopl ehave been executed, not just sentenced to death, and only 2 have received clemency. Another unconfirmed stat states "The 200 innocent persons spent a total of 2,475 years in prison." That's insane!!!!

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Yeah, but that's not what we are discussing mate.

Jaqui
Jaqui

it is a speedy one we have to get them into it fast or they might miss it and just get injured instead of killed.

Jaqui
Jaqui

speed e-chair for all. execution must be completed within 1 hour of sentencing. settles the issue of them living for20 or more years on death row.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

I try getting script kiddies to electrocute themselves!!! You think that I would want this loser to live??? I say, put him down! I am all for the death penalty for much more than this. My biggest problem is that it can take more than 15-20 years for the penalty to be implemented. We need a 'speed e-chair' (kinda has a ring dont it) :^0 :^0 for those who have no doubt (caught red handed, on tape or multiple witnesses or both) for anyone that performed a violent crime with a weapon.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

that he had to pay for conversation.... and still didnt get any :0 Well, at least he should 'get some' in prison huh! :0

Oktet
Oktet

You need $19,000 to party at DefCon? [sic: just kidding]

briansa
briansa

You can fool some of the people all of the time but you can't fool all the people all of the time. Got Light? Having said that, why are you angry that a thief has received more jail time than a rapist? Or that big corporations get away with screwing thousands of people while one person gets 60 years? The truth of the matter is that laws are written by elitist rich people who are above the law so don't expect the them to go to jail. The only thing you can do is to keep telling the truth and to not buy into it all. As for the original question - I refuse to be predjudice against a group of people just because one person made a bad mistake. Spread love not violence.

wmlundine
wmlundine

...demand goes up. I don't think so, not unless price goes down. The amount of oil in Iraq; tied to the petro dollar is significant and worth going to war for if your intent is empire. The Chinese get the largest part of their oil from Iran. I wonder what we are doing there?

Locrian_Lyric
Locrian_Lyric

and as the continued usage increases in India and China, two countries that comprise a very large portion of the world's population, any savings from getting Iraq's oil 100% online would be completely erased. Then of course, there is the OPEC cartel who loves to decrease production, and probably would to keep the price of oil from falling too far. I'm no fan of GW Bush, but you anti-bush folks are downright crazy. On the one hand, GWB is a blithering idiot who couldn't find his own backside with both hands and a map, and on the other hand, he's this evil genius and mastermind for these grandiose plots for world domination.

wmlundine
wmlundine

...the law of supply and demand would suddenly be suspended and OPEC (Saudi Arabia in particular) would stand idly by! Bush did accomplish his mission.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

So, the right wing still hangs onto one piece of outdated dogma that they can takeout of context and bitch about? Are you one of those guys that thinks Kerry flip flopped, because that was also taken out of context? America stopped Brits from speaking German and all the rest of that utter BS. Sorry, I can't stand that mindset, it just p1sses me off to no end as it is so blatantly ignorant. America FUNDS Iraqi gasoline these days. It costs teh taxpayers of the US at least $1.00 PER GALLON, for every gallon sold in Iraq. In order to save face, teh US is allowing gas prices to be the equivalent of 5 cents per gallon in Iraq. This ends up costign YOU the US taxpayer abotu $1.00 per gallon for every gallon sold. Well done! As far as Oil from Iraq, America hasn't had oil from Iraq in MANY years, [b]the majority of your oil comes from Canada[/b], Iraq cut America off long ago. Afghanistan has an immense pipeline. That pipeline is controlled by the Taliban, very little money makes it into the correct pockets. By invading Afghanistan, they take over control of the pipeline, handing it back in good faith. By toppling Saddam, the US now has a shot at trading for oil. By ridding the Middle East of a terorist group and an "evil dictator" the USa looks pretty rosy and that oil was saved by America. Mistake #1, leaving Afghanistan, the Taliban have since regrouped as they were merely pushed into Kandahar, their turf. mistake#2, going to Iraq on false pretenses and without full allied support. Now it has become an endless war in Iraq, just as they have faced theselves for decades. America no longer looks good, the economy took a dive due to the endless spending and borrowing that still continues today. A friend who has been working in the Middle East just cam eback saying how mush they absolutely HATE America and Bush now, the US is not seen as a saviour or to be helping anyone. BUT, the USA beat Russia and China to the punch, that's all. It was a rush to the finish, and now look at the mess you're in. Bush knew better, he was told better, he lied in press conferences even after KNOWING that there was no possibility of nukes, he ignored his allies, he even went against his OWN words (he said he would use force to complete inspections, inspectors were working on schedule and found nothing until they were removed to make room for Americas invasion). He lied, then he lied a little more, upon that were some more lies and now he continues to lie and lie again simply to change the focus and have America think he was acting in America's best interests. Oh well, get used to Monopoly money, it'll be worth more than the US dollar soon. Especially when OTHER Middle Eastern countries start trading in Euros too, as opposed ot the US "Petrodollar" they invested in before. 'kin, right wing clowns. The retarded part was that even after this had been done and was brought to light, Americans decided he would be worth reelecting.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

America has been disallowed Iraqi oil for ages now. Saddam cut the US off years ago, that's why other countries with trading abilities were forced to trade munitions and dual purpose goods to supply the US oil needs. That's also why there was such a personal vendetta between Bush and Saddam. The idea now is to gain favour from Iraq, then it will flow to you. Afganistan has the pipeline, Taliban are there to cash in on it and use the money for terror. Leaving Afghanistan early was a big mistake. The Taliban and AlQaeda were not eliminated, have grown bigger and supposedly more powerful than ever before. Bush simply mislead/BS'd an entire country (the US) so many times that nobody remembers why you are there now, WMD, Oil, Saddam's repression etc. the list of poor excuses was endless, while nothing was confirmed. But you can rest easy knowing that YOUR tax dollars are funding the Iraqi's gasoline now. To make nice, Bush allowed funded sales of gasoline in some areas, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. So Iraqi's are paying 5 cents per gallon for oil and YOUR tax dollars are funding the difference as it is being distributed by Bush's bum buddies at Halliburton at a ridiculous cost to Americans. Last year estimated cost was $1.00 [b]per gallon[/b] taken from the US taxpayer. Good war guys, way to go! Look at that dollar of yours! Too bad you couldn't reelect him a turd time. Maybe learn a few things about supporting retarded wars.

Oktet
Oktet

Hopefully, you do not use Pay Pal, and there isn't another 26 year old Security Professional compromising systems.

Locrian_Lyric
Locrian_Lyric

unless we get India and China to stop using so much.

wmlundine
wmlundine

...if we brought Iraqi oil online what would happen to the price of oil?

Eoghan
Eoghan

Sure, US contractors are being used. And paid for with US dollars. If Iraqi oil is being used to pay them, then send the $100 billion back to the US, straight to our Social Security System. Show me where Iraqi money or Iraqi oil is being used to offset the US costs over there. Show me. Frankly, I'd give every one of the Iraqis an M16, 10,000 rounds of ammunition, and let them knock each other off. Last person standing gets to own Iraq. Whooopppeeee, world's largest deposit of kitty litter, and barely good enough for that. Don't get me started. And what are you watching? the Beeb? Like they're not biased.

2WiReD
2WiReD

Look at the companies that got the contracts dude, look at the companies that were brought it to rebuild "strategically struck" infrastructure at the companies that got the contracts dude, look at the companies that were brought it to rebuild "strategically struck" infrastructure. Sure, turkey and iran, right.... stop watching fox man, seriously

2WiReD
2WiReD

yea whatever dude

LANman28
LANman28

Thanks for "catching me" on those points! You're right, we all need an occasional reminder of the abilities we hold as IT professionals and also the privileges (security and access) that we may have, and that we should use them with ethics and respect. I can't remember where this line comes from but: "with great power comes great responsibility". On the issue of the sentence, depending on the extent of the impact he had with his actions.... perhaps it is due. Maybe the judge saw some issue with his character that warranted the extensive time? Call me wrong, but I'd like to see more sentences such as this for online fraud and harassment (e.g. spammers), it might just start to "scare people straight".

Big Ole Jack
Big Ole Jack

Seems like they are never proactive and always reactive to events. Typical gov't agency.

Jaqui
Jaqui

something about 6 or 7 generations to pay off the debt created by his wars. I just hope it crashes before he is out of office, so he, and his party, can catch the blame for it.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Did he? And I've always liked Bush! :p Yup, hell in a handbasket, VERY quickly with no light at the end of that tunnel either. Just bad policy, bad planning and awful execution. Did anyone expect more though?

Jaqui
Jaqui

be soon, they'll be running for here when the us peso hits 80 cents CDN. [ which will happen before the next presidential election, bush destroyed the us economy ]

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I don't think anyone outside of America will every get it and why shoule we. At this rate, they will become a third world country in no time, easy pickins. Can't wait to hear Mexicans complaining that Americans are jumping the fence to find a better life and taking all their jobs away.

Jaqui
Jaqui

you forgot to include paying for the bullets and wages of those tormenting him. tax dollars shouldn't be used. victims wouldn't mind haveing their money used to pay for tormenting him to death.

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