Windows optimize

Microsoft relents on XP downgrade

CNET News.com reports that Microsoft has softened its stance and have been quietly allowing PC makers to furnish a "downgrade" to Windows XP for customers who request for it.

CNET Networks' News.com reports that Microsoft has softened its stance and has been quietly allowing PC makers to furnish a "downgrade" to Windows XP for customers who request it.

Excerpt from the article:

A Microsoft representative confirmed there were changes made over the summer to make it easier for customers to downgrade to XP. Under Microsoft's licensing terms for Vista, buyers of Vista Business and Vista Ultimate Edition have always had the right to downgrade to XP, but in practice this could be challenging.

In June, Microsoft changed its practices to allow computer makers that sell preactivated Vista machines to order Windows XP discs that could be included inside the box with PCs, or shipped to customers without requiring additional activation.

It appears that some PC makers, such as HP and Gateway, are still selling Windows XP machines nearly a full year after Vista was offered to businesses.

With Vista's hefty graphics and memory needs, it is no wonder that businesses are hesitant to deploy the new OS.

Also:

There is an issue, though, over how long PC makers can keep selling machines with Windows XP as the preloaded operating system. Microsoft is requiring large PC makers to stop selling XP-based systems as of January 31 ...

"We're all lobbying for it," says Fujitsu's marketing manager, Brandon Farris.

Personally, I have specified Windows XP for the 10-15 new PCs that my company has purchased this year. One of the reason why is that Windows Vista appears unable to connect to our legacy Novell-based file server.

How would the "final" cessation of Windows XP sales next year affect you?

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About

Paul Mah is a writer and blogger who lives in Singapore, where he has worked for a number of years in various capacities within the IT industry. Paul enjoys tinkering with tech gadgets, smartphones, and networking devices.

74 comments
tomasrichard
tomasrichard

HOW DO I DOWNGRADE VISTA HOME PREMIUM TO XP? I HATE VISTA!! PLEASE SEND AN ANSWER TO tomasrichard@yahoo.com THANK YOU.

pgargya
pgargya

All users of Vista must be given an option of moving down to XP as using Vista is a big issue. Drivers of devices are not avialbale, most of the application softwares are still not able to work on Vista paltform.

TechExec2
TechExec2

. If you switch to Linux, you can run Windows XP in a VM with the fast free VMware Player. The virtual hardware devices are supported by XP now and "never" vary, so they will be supported "forever". No driver problems. Ever. Microsoft is not in control of this. You are. Take it. I have.

djMot
djMot

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Vista is where we are going; resistance is futile. Silly Borg platitudes aside, don't we ever learn? Doesn't all this gassing on about not moving to Vista sound vaguely familiar? Isn't that what you all said when XP hit the shelves - and the new boxes of the day? "XP? No way, man! I'm sticking with Win2K!!!" Now you're all going whacko over Vista? History Repeats! I thought we were supposed to learn from the past. Those who are actively learning the new game (and it *is* a better game!) will be light years of all of you sitting out there bemoaning an awesome new OS! Can it be so hard to learn about Vista? Is UAC and Virtualization really so mysterious? Dozens of articles have heen written exclaiming their importance in securing the operating system to levels not seen previously. And yet, just as soon an most people figure out how to flip the UAC switch, OFF it goes! "Security? I really can't be bothered by that. Not if it's gonna be a little bit inconvenient for me that it!" I could go on, and on, and on, but the real point I'm making here is that if you're not a part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Yes, it works differently, and yes we all can't wait for SP1. Will you need to reexamine your policies and procedures? To some extent, yes. Quit complaining and buying yesterdays stuff when you could be walking your companies or your clients boldly into the new generation of more secure, and way cooler computing environments. I suppose I'll have to start ducking the tomatoes now. :rolling eyes:

bells_work
bells_work

I think that it is great. What little I have worked on Vista, I did not enjoy very much. Most users are complaining about having to take Vista when ordering new pc's. This will help a lot.

Locrian_Lyric
Locrian_Lyric

I know a slew of sysadmins who have threatened mutany over Vista

steve6375
steve6375

If you read the article quoted carefully see 'Microsoft is requiring large PC makers to stop selling XP-based systems as of January 31 ???' It says that PC makers cannot ship a licence for XP after Jan 2008 - it does NOT say that they cannot ship a system with a licence for Windows Vista Business or Ultimate and pre-install Windows XP Professional as allowed under downgrade rights.

alexander.x.schumann
alexander.x.schumann

Great but why does then the reseller Dell in Ireland not sell XP but only vista. For my company I requested the new hardware be downgraded to XP and they refused.

aaduwaikh
aaduwaikh

We have been ordering new office machines and laptops with the downgrade since vistas release

paulmah
paulmah

How would the "final" cessation of Windows XP sales next year affect you?

dsimp
dsimp

I dunno how more Pro Vista you could be. Seems obvious to me that at the moment, for various reasons, Vista sucks right now. I agree many of the troubles may be fixed with SP1 but at the moment it's a real problem because businesses have to continue to function.

techrepublic
techrepublic

Yes I harped on about XP when it came out. It was crap (SP 2 fixed a few things). Still is in my view. The general consensus is Vista is it is troublesome at least and while I have not even bothered to look into it (based on the general response from the industry) my feeling is many people would also rate it as crap (unnecessary, troublesome, etc). That is why I still happily run Win2k. Solid, does everything I want it to do. Why would you change something that works? I am hoping someone else might come up with an alternative before I am forced to upgrade. Google

Ergo we surrender.
Ergo we surrender.

Doesn't every legacy application require full administrator rights to run? Look I don't want security- and let's face it even big corporates are still coding in-house apps to run with local administrator privilges- don't they? And lets face it- how many workstations still have their local admin account with a blank admin password? UAC- blah! Give me XP anyday - I can be lazy, slack and everybody is happy. Ohh and I don't have to worry about pirating anything - No DRM and licensing- I'll just use my Corporate license to install everything! Seriously now buck up campers!!- Vista is a move in the right direction- I agree it is far from perfect but it is heading where we have to go. Sure you can moan about bugs, performance- that's all good because these things have to be improved. Microsoft got an absolute pasting over the slackness of security in XP- hence every 2nd pc running XP has spyware of some kind and you can usually drive a truck through a security hole somewhere in it. So there is need for better security- UAC is a start. I even see ppl in this thread proclaiming that Mac OS is the answer. So, clearly the Vista eye candy is not good enough for them - but how slow is their Mac vs Vista on same hardware platform? Win98 just flies in 512M with a bottom end graphics card - But Vista is a dog because it tries to be everything for everyone. It's simply time to move on - you NEED faster CPU, more RAM, OS footprint, etc... It's history repeating itself and my Tandy TRS-80 is now as useless AS! The inevitable will happen. Vista in some form or flavor will pervade our IT world. But reading this thread it is clear that many of you you will still be clutching on to your precious copies of XP with your Corporate licenses in 2010. I'm moving on... what are you doing?

mattr
mattr

I think you're forgetting a little OS called Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition. How many people were burned by that little piece of work? Microsoft doesn't even acknowledge that version. With that learned lesson in mind, my company is going to buy WinXP machines until at least SP1 is released and I'm confident we will not experience more issues then we already have. I?d rather us lose a little money now then the possibility of losing a lot more later, including my job. Instead of taking the young, brash, and inexperienced route, let's actually learn from history and take a survey of the land before we take Custard's army and blindly charge in; we all know how that turned out.

uberg33k50
uberg33k50

I really wanted to embrace the new Vista OS but I can't. We have a $225,000 software product that is our entire working business and it will not run on it. Will we eventually got to it?...yes. I currently have machines aging out tough and I have to have XP at this point.

Jshee42
Jshee42

There was this extremely handy piece of software called GHOST where you can make your own images. I know it's been 2 years since getting out of the PC Tech realm of work, but I'm sure something like GHOST wouldn't go away overnight. At my company, we have NEVER used the factory installed image. We get the PC and wipe the drive with our ghost image. It just works better that way. If we get a new PC type, we wipe it, create an image and VIOLA! It's ready to go!

OldER Mycroft
OldER Mycroft

Either you've mis-spelled MUTINY or MUTANCY. Either would apply tho' I prefer the latter!

yagar
yagar

As I understand the Microsoft licence anyone can load XP Pro or any other operating system prior to Vista, if they have a legal licence for Vista. Lets face it Microsoft has to clean the egg off it's face for releasing Vista. They don't care, nor will they ever take a survey to find out, how many machines with a licence for Vista are in fact running XP or earlier. Microsoft can then boast that they are selling huge volumes of Vista, when in fact they are not even being used, thus trying to make it seem like there is a world wide acceptance of Vista. If you look at the pricing of XP. Still up there. It will be until it finally disappears from the market. The last thing Microsoft wants is companies stockpiling copies of XP at a low price to avoid having to purchase Vista. So the saga of the incompetent software company continues. Someday it will crash like the OS' it continually releases. Until then I guess we will have to continue to find ways around the stupidity of the Gates. Some of you, like myself, may be old enough to remember Gates started this company by stealing from others and getting away with it. Should it not be legal to steal from a thief. There are ways to load XP and have it appear to legal and not cost you a dime. What's that saying "What's good for the goose is good for the gander". just my 2 cents

hvanderw
hvanderw

Was about to order 45 new high end CAD stations from Dell (almost 3k each ) and they said Vista only so I said well I will check with HP they will sell me XP Pro. 10 min. later Dell calls back and says "we can do XP !!!"

DanLM
DanLM

They just ordered new laptops and they all came with xp. Dan

godsmaverick
godsmaverick

I just got off the phone with their Partner Program, trying to find a partner through which I can buy the full version of XP Pro to downgrade two laptops. At the end of the call, I asked the girl which OS Microsoft had them using..... XP Pro. Yeah - Microsoft hasn't even upgraded themselves, and they expect us to? Yeah, right.

godsmaverick
godsmaverick

Hi all, I am trying to help my Operations Manager... A co-worker has a Gateway MT3707 running Vista Home Premium. We want to downgrade the laptop to XP, have checked the downgrade chart, and we "qualify". Problem is, I can't find instructions to actually do it. I'm a mac addict, hate windows, and cant really do anything to advanced in it (because as a Project Assistant, there's only so much I ever need to do on Windows). All that to say - I need some serious step by step instructions. Help, pahlease.

jetskiguy
jetskiguy

The company I work for we have about 1000 computers and we just finished migrating the last of the win2k boxes to XP last Decemeber. We have no plans to move to Vista because of cost and benefits. What benefits does vista provide over XP? I see none and why change a system that we have when it works! The different versions of Vista are confusing to say the least so until more testing and proof is done we have no plans to move to the new OS.

rounhere
rounhere

We are all and always have been Uncle Bill's Beta testers. Same story different version.

sfox
sfox

We're not moving to Vista. Period. Indeed we're getting so heartily sick of the Microsoft merry-go-round that we're seriously looking at Mac OS X Tiger on Intel. If you've not looked at it, I suggest you do. An Operating System that appears to work, is secure, doesn't fragment, runs (not walks), supports Remote Desktop even to Windows Apps and still supports all the applications we use now with some other cool features you don't see with Vista or even XP. I make no other comment other than just give it a look.

allenpcservice9
allenpcservice9

My customers come to me because i don't try to force anything on them. You do not have to read tech articles to hear things about new operating systems. If I could not provide a good alternative to new OS releases I would lose my service cusomer base. Not evrybody wants an over the top system. XP provides an alternative for a sesible, if you will, computer! I never gave it alot of thought but there ARE other OS alternatives to microsoft OS.

zlitocook
zlitocook

I work for a large company in the mid west and the section I work for is not going for Vista. The main part of the company is going to try to adopt it next year but most of the IT section is out sourced and makes money from MS for use of its product. We are on a separate network so we can choose what we need to do. We have tried Vista on test computers and were not impressed with it. It will not take our older programs; it would cost millions to update those programs. Vista could not use any of the twenty printers or scanners we have. We tried to patch a computer with remote access and had to let it run for over an hour and it still did not work. The people we tried it on were just upset because the programs they have to use were upset. Because it keep promoting them to ask for administrative access. Microsoft has put out another bug product and wants us to find the problems so they can fix it. I like the newest Linux distro.

geraldwhale
geraldwhale

If as it seems microsft are to try to kill of XP what is there to replace it?.Ive tried vista and find it has a nice face (desktop) but no usful subatnce behind it, in short it may just be able to run a washing machine but that is all.Have thy not learnt anything from the XP eperiance again they have gone to the market with a product that is far from ready they should continue to suport XP take vista off the market untill it is a viable product In no other industry would a company get away with using its customers as guine pigs as microsoft dose Vista may be ready in about three to four years for me to seriously think about trying it again .

gary55
gary55

90% of people who buy new computers through the retail outlet that I work for walk out with Vista preinstalled. In about a week they return their computers and ask for XP to be installed. They find that most of their programs will not work with Vista. Vista will still not work with Server 2003 'out of the Box'

NaughtyMonkey
NaughtyMonkey

Most machines come with no OS and when one does have one I blow it away and install from our corporate license anyway.

dobbinsm
dobbinsm

I am going to do all that I can to keep XP Pro on our PCs and Laptops. I know that we are keeping it on our servers right now. I can just imagine the nightmare that we would have if we allowed the change to Vista. Everyone would be hollering for help! There is no way we could keep up with the calls on 200 PCs and 75 laptops that we have here in this DC alone. Not to mention all of the other DCs and Mother company.

Patrick_m
Patrick_m

This will not effect me as I carry a valid Corperate LIC for XP Pro and I will just downgrade the PC's myself.

Dusterman
Dusterman

We also had an issue with a customer that thought they would save money and order their own new Dell's. . Of coarse , the OS was Vista. . What a piece of crap ! . Finally ..... after spending many hours attempting to make the printers work [ computer makers brand yet ! ] ..... we called the maker..... they finally ..... agreed to send new hard drives only...... so that I could install them and get them up and running. . The moron wanted to send XP home ........ I insisted on XP PRO ..... new hard drives were up and running in minutes ....... it took all day to do the updates and most folks were begrudgingly "ok" with the many re-boots :-( . But ...... almost everything worked immediately .... . My question to Bill is ........ why give away all of your monay ..... and so then you need more ......so you put out such a piece of s*** OS ? . and who actually tested all of the printer drivers that are out there ? . I was told by the computer company that they had many problems with Vista and that they were going to still offer XP [ Pro ] to all that asked for it, as he said ...... less brain damage :-) . So ........ hopefully .... "Uncle Bill" is listening ......... stop offering such worthless crap until ....... until all tests are completed and are successful, not ..... we'll fix the thing after we hear what is not working right . . Just my opinion ....... don't need any lawsuits today ........ :-) . .

ke_xtian
ke_xtian

I have it at home, and it is not ready for the work environment unless you want to dramatically augment your internal support staff. It's not that it crashes a lot, but it has some troubling issues.

ballistabob
ballistabob

Unfortunately where I am employed our main application is an eight bit dos program. The database software is equally antiquated and we have been informed by the vendor that it will not function in a Vista environment. So I will be buying a lot of used systems preloaded with XP Pro or parts to fix the old machines we are currently running. The ideal situation would be to replace the offending application, unfortunately no one with authority to do so is willing or are unable to do so. So an eBaying I shall go.

Locrian_Lyric
Locrian_Lyric

M$ has achieved their goal of being damn near everywhere now, so as a consequence, it is a nightmare to 'upgrade' everything. They've made the lion's share of vendors of both hardware and software conform to XP standards and now want everyone to jump. The beancounters and the sysadmins are on the same side this time. Migrating from XP to Vista is too much work and money for any advantages that such a migration may bring.

smarrinan
smarrinan

Vista is way too big and slow for our hardware and Windows XP seems to fly on the same hardware. We have already noticed where Dell have hardware on their Vostro that the only drivers available are on Windows Vista. We know we may have issues with certain features of the newer hardware but for simplifying our network we will continue to down grade for at least the next 12 to 24 months.

eitankus
eitankus

I *started* selling hardware because my clients couldn't get XP over the counter. I've sold half a dozen laptops and about 20 towers thanks to Mr. Gates. My local Staples store is not very happy either because I used to send customers to them because they could get the systems cheaper. I can understand wanting to sunset a product but it's WAY too soon and which one of the six(?) flavors of Vista do I tell my customers to purchase? Probably the most expensive (Ultimate?) and that's exactly what Sir Bill wants us to do.

escritorio
escritorio

The VISTA was the best thing Microsoft did for me. After loosing more than 4 days testing and experimenting this SO, I decided to the best. Migrate do Mac OS X. I bought a new MacBook PRO and voila. All things work just fine. The printer is not a problem any more. The scanner works fine too.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

we were supposed to migrate to Vista in April '07. But the testing teams have had a very hard time getting it to work in a stable/consistant manner on our network. These teams have pushed the release of Vista back several times already, and the latest is now somewhere around march/april '08. But, by then SP1 should be out and they will need to test with it as well. I wonder how many new problems will arise with it, and if the teams will push the release even farther. The funny thing is that at my company, we are MS bitches, and even then we cannot seem to get Vista to work right....lol P.S. -- when I say my company, I mean the one I work for, not that I own anything.

djMot
djMot

Nope. Not tied to MS in any way. Well, okay, I am an MCSD, but I doubt that even raises an eyebrow in Redmond. I could be wrong. Actually, aside from running an IT Consultancy, my real passion is music. My internet radio station, Girls Rock Radio, can be found here: http://www.girlsrockradio.com Tune in. It's hot. It's contemporary pop, rock, and alternative music from today's most awesome all-girl and girl-fronted bands. GRR is running on a Dell Vostro 400 running Vista Ultimate. A feat, btw, that some said could not be done... Back to Vista... Please, understand UAC and Folder Virtualization before dismissing Vista as a horrible thorn in IT's foot. It truly is a matter of understanding Vista. Once you grab a hold of what's going on, the beauty of it all becomes apparent. Start here perhaps: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa905117.aspx Or just Google up and read articles whose intent is to *educate* you on UAC and Folder Virtualization rather than just disparage MS for something that *they* don't understand themselves.

djMot
djMot

ME sucked. That's for sure. It's really debatable why MS spent any effort at all developing the 9x line past 98. But it's also moot. Still, on that point I'd have to agree. But... Comparing Vista to Me is just not logical. MS scrapped all the 9x stuff and just turned all attention to Vista. Yes there are problems, but over at Paul Thurrott's SuperSite for Windows (see my reply "Eye Candy" for a link to his awesome review of Vista,) you can read one of the best reviews of what's wrong with Vista. From that chapter in his review, I quote: "Windows Vista is a stellar operating system, but it has problems. They're all small problems though. You won't find any endemic architectural issues to complain about, nor will you find sweeping examples of ineptitude. For most users, Windows Vista is hugely positive." And from the introduction: "These are the things to keep in perspective when considering Windows Vista. It is a complex product, a big product. It's a major Windows update with lots of new functionality and oodles of new features. It's the first Windows version to provide developers with a major new programming model in a decade. It's got an unbelievably long list of extensibility points so that Microsoft and its partners can build off it for years to come. It is, as promised, the biggest new version of Windows since Windows 95. Chances are, if you're reading this site, you're going to upgrade to Vista sometime soon regardless of my opinion. As for the rest of the world, I suspect their next PC purchase will include Windows Vista as well. By this time next year[written Nov 2006], over 100 million people around the world will be using Windows Vista. It's incredible, isn't it? The sheer size and scope of Windows Vista makes it difficult to review, to digest, and to understand. If you step back too far, it doesn't look very impressive at all: It's like XP with a spit-shine. But if you get too close, it's easy to get lost in the seemingly never-ending lists of new features. Yep, it's a major Windows version all right. And now it's complete." So to use ME as an argument not to advance to Vista simply does not work and is a liability to your company. SP1 is due out soon enough not to warrant any sort of "wait and see" attitude at this point. With certified hardware and drivers, Vista is an awesome piece of work even pre-SP1! It can only get better. Have fun explaining to your CEO why all of his buddies at the Executive's Club have Vista and he doesn't. At least get the Free Upgrade path for new machines if the option is even available. Even then, have fun explaining to your CEO why you need to take his laptop for a day and wipe it clean, install Vista for him, and he'll have to basically start over again. All within a few months of getting the machine - Yikes. Can you say job insecurity?

djMot
djMot

What is your Vendor's position on this? Vista has been out for over 9 months now and developer information has been available long before that. This is the other side of the equation that is perhaps even more insidious - vendors who drag their feet releasing updated editions of their software. I'm sorry you're in this position, and I understand that there are situations like this that make migration nearly impossible, but consider this: Your vendor is placing your systems at marginal additional risk by forgoing the improved security of Vista, not to mention the more pleasant user experience. Further, you are forced to purchase systems with a license for a dated OS. You face significant additional cost in upgrading these new machines to Vista later. Current negotiations with your vertical vendor regarding future upgrades and maintenance contracts need to reflect the costs you incur - now and tomorrow - as a result of their feet dragging. They saw the writing on the wall. It should not surprise them that their bottom line suffers for not getting off their butts and catching the wave. Hope you see this point.

Locrian_Lyric
Locrian_Lyric

Brain was thinking of both and I got a hybrid on the screen....

dirtylaundry
dirtylaundry

Although I agree with you 100% and am a gander ;) at some point, we will have to deal with hardware *not supporting XP* - it may be 3 yrs from now - we may even see hardware makers be kind and create new stuff with stickers on the box *Backward compatible with Windows XP* but then they will stop doing that too. Many consumers don't realize that with the advent of Vista came new chips designed for it with more *security* coding from the Large PC makers that created quite a stir to those that realized this is a whole new animal. There's more going on than just A Software Giant wiping egg off its face. DRM is spreading. If you don't build your own, learn how to NOW with non-proprietary hardware - for that knowledge will be what separates those under the thumb of Big Brother and those that embrace their basic rights.

agemmell
agemmell

We have been ordering XP on all new equipment at our company. The stability of Vista is not the main issue. Ours is that the learning curve for our 200+ users would be nearly impossible to support with the two of us in IT. Vista looks good and has some great new features, but 80% of our users are just fine with the functionality of XP Pro.

Drew@Omaha
Drew@Omaha

Fortunately, our primary software vendor says their product is not certified to run on Vista machines. I've been replacing our aging Windows 2000 machines with XP. I'd like to have at least one Vista machine in the office so I can learn the OS because it's something we're all going to have to deal with eventually.

djMot
djMot

Again, start reading here: http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista.asp And for a primer on folder virtualization, start reading here: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa905117.aspx And just my thoughts on your upgrade schedule, but I'd have to believe that any company that has just recently completed an XP migration has already missed the bus and is sinking unrecoverable $$$ and man hours into a commodity item not really worth that level of effort. Your time is better spent on projects to keep your company competitive and on the cutting edge of innovation. A $1,500 6 year old box box does not warrant 5X it's purchase price over that many years in support and four years too late upgrades.

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

With an Enterprise license, we'll just keep loading XP as long as we can XP drivers for the new hardware.

djMot
djMot

All operating systems have blemishes. Even XP. The "Troubling Issues" you speak of are more likely the misunderstanding of how Vista works than inherent flaws in the OS itself. Nobody gets UAC, for example, but it is one of the most innovative security measures ever taken. Because they don't understand it, people eventually learn how to turn it off, and take a huge step backwards in security. Oh well. Ignorance is bliss, they say! Then there are the software authors who don't get it either and continue to write in defiance of the new features. Well, that will bite them in the butt one day! Vista rocks. Yes, SP1 is eagerly anticipated, but buying with XP instead of Vista now will just lead to significant regret later. "Gee, I could've had a V-8!"

Patrick_m
Patrick_m

I have vista at home and one copy at work I will tell you that Vista Bus is way different from Vista home. The Bus version I have works great with all my apps I have not found a App that is does not like yet. The vista Home well that should be drop kicked into the son along with the guy that said lets create a vista home that gives users no chance of using there exsisting infrastructure. But any ways I like Vista Bus but the Home has to be inproved.

djMot
djMot

Contact me for a quote on bringing that app into the new millennium. I hold an MCSD credential, but am in no way married to Microsoft development tools (despite what others may think of me here, lol!) Love MySQL. Could develop it as a web-based back office solution, or local client application, or whatever. Just let me know. :)

stux
stux

VMWare Server seems to be free and will let you run almost any old x86 operating system including DOS.

rogsfca
rogsfca

I work for a Fortune 500 co. with over 210,000 PCs worldwide with both W2K & Xp (Unix, W2K & W2K3 Servers). Since Feb., there has been a pilot of approx. 2000 users for Vista, and approx. 2000 users for Linux. Not sure of the specs for Vista, but the Linux / Red Hat budget just doubled for next quarter, and my manager sent my team some class schedules for Linux starting in November. I personally would prefer to stay with XP, but, the powers that be are probably forecasting a post-XP fiasco.

Dennis.Keeling
Dennis.Keeling

I've just calculated that I've not had a stable computer on my desk since 1990. So roll on Monday when I buy an Imac 24.

chuckgosh
chuckgosh

to remember the day Coca-Cola stopped selling Coca-Cola (1985). That proves that Microsoft is not the dumbest bunch of exec's on the planet, but might be a contender. If you're one of those folks who trades their new car in every three years, Vista is perfect for you, since you can afford to replace all your hardware, printers, peripherals and software even faster. For me (and large corporations, who cannot just turn on a dime even if they could justify the cost) XP is just fine. It does everything I need and it's familiar to use. Vista? Why bother?

djMot
djMot

Um, I didn't pay Microsoft a penny to earn my MCSD credential. I DID take 5 of the most God-awful exams on the planet - and paid the testing center for the privilege of twisting my sanity for those 74 minute blocks of torture time. I suppose MS got something from the testing center, but really don't know how that works. Not my concern. I get absolutely nothing, monetarily, from Microsoft directly and I do NOT sell MS products at all. To my knowledge they have no "affiliate" programs whereby someone can earn direct commissions either. I stand to make just as much money doing PHP/MySQL programming on the web as I could supporting MS products - probably more. And btw, a huge component of my business model certers around just that (PHP/MySQL) and supporting open source alternatives. For example, the computer I am using to dictate this post doesn't even have MS Office installed. I use OpenOffice, Firefox, and non-MS web authoring tools. Nor do I even recommend MS Office any more. It adds too much to the cost of a new system. An additional $500USD for Office Professional just to get MS Access? I think not! Sad, because MS Access is still one of the most awesome personal database programs ever created! Doesn't keep me from believing Vista ROCKS, though! And once again, I sense your commentary to be driven more from a position of a lack of knowledge and understanding. I've posted all the links I need to so that you can get up to speed. Go find those links, k?

bg4
bg4

An MCSD is someone who has paid microsoft for the privilege of selling their products. Of course MCSDs (particularly consultants) are going to recommend Vista as they have a vested interest. The more "issues" there are for their clients, the more money they can make. Same applies to MCSE....

bg4
bg4

An MCSD is someone who has paid microsoft for the privilege of selling their products. Of course MCSDs (particularly consultants) are going to recommend Vista as they have a vested interest. The more "issues" there are for their clients, the more money they can make. Same applies to MCSE....

dsimp
dsimp

I checked out your GRR site. Interesting for sure.. Good luck :)

Parsnipfingers
Parsnipfingers

An interesting thread with some useful info and some very valid points. Quote: "Windows Vista is a stellar operating system, but it has problems. They're all small problems though." I have a Vista box running (Vista business from Microsoft media shipped as part of my OVS.) Vista looks good and I'm enjoying the learning experience. However, I have been smitten with an updates issue (like others.) It is an issue in as much as I cannot update Vista either manually or otherwise, and microsoft apparently have no answer as to why it won't update or indeed how to fix it. Despite Microsoft telling me that they will respond within one working day, they have apparently chosen not to. Not entirely encouraging. The inability to perform 'critical' security updates and patches to my hosts is, as far as I'm concerned, a fundamental flaw. I will continue to enjoy 'playing' with my Vista box but until the issue is resolved (and 'reinstall vista' isn't a satisfactory answer by way of a solution,) I cannot live with a network of computers that can't be updated. In all honesty (really honestly,) for the first time ever I've been giving serious thought to buying a macbook or an imac to try out. I can't ultimately see me dumping IBM's, but there again, cynicism has led me towards the exploration of other possibilities. And why not? Yes, we have always paid for the priviledge of beta testing Bill's newest incarnations of windows, but I frankly see no reason why I should have to. If it were free then I couldn't complain, but it's not. I'm not saying that I think that Vista is in beta, but I disagree with the view that it is finished; it is not and, like every other version of windows, it still won't be by the time the next generation is released to the market place.

djMot
djMot

That's not quite what I said. I am an IT Consultant and have been in the IT field for more than 25 years starting with Weather Satellite Ground Systems in the USAF back around 1980. Currently I hold an MCSD and work with clients across multiple industries and in the disciplines of Desktop & Mobile Management, Networking, Application and Web Development, and IT Coaching. I did say that music was my passion and will always give my internet radio station - Girls Rock Radio (http://www.girlsrockradio.com) a plug whereever possible. ;) All companies expect their staff to do their work as quickly and accurately as possible. Well, that is to say that *I* have not personally found any company that says, "yeah, we wish our staff would lollygag around more..." I'm simply pointing out that too many IT staffers are focusing on the negative rather than discovering and implementing all the positives. Yes, "eventually" we *all* will be on Vista. Those who embrace the change today will be way ahead of the pack. The "quick and the dead" come to mind... Please be careful not to have too little regard for the experience your users have while dealing with your company's second most valuable asset, or the woooshing sound you'll hear will be all your current and would-be employees rushing past headed for aero glass pastures.

uberg33k50
uberg33k50

I read furhter down the list you are in the entertainment industry. We are not. If an applicant is more interested in his "user experience" on our computers then I welcome them to take the other job offered. The total package we offer here makes it a great place to work...for that we expect the work to be done as quickly and accurately as possible. I am glad you are happy with Vista and it is working for you. Eventually it will be working for us as well.

djMot
djMot

Two companies side by side seeking quality employees. Both equal in what they do. Company A says, "This is a business and our systems are capable of doing the job quite well. We don't believe in eye candy, though, because, again, this is a business, so our decision has been to remain with Windows XP." Company B says, "We've throughly researched the capabilities of Windows Vista and are more than satisfied that the user experience strengthens our employees' abilities to perform their work more efficiently and securely. They are also delighted with how much nicer Vista looks!" You're the candidate. Which company do you go to work for? Eye Candy is for everyone - at home and at work. Don't underestimate the pretty facade's ability to make an employee happier about their work. But I didn't say "eye candy." I said "user experience." If you have not done so yet, I encourage you (everyone who hasn't already!) to sit down before a Windows Vista machine, and surf on over to Paul Thrurrott's SuperSite for Windows and check out the Windows Vista review here: http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista.asp (or if this reply editor strips URLs just Google Paul up and go to the "Windows Vista" section of the site (colored tabs across the top) and then look for the "Windows Vista Review" link - it's the 10 item down and indented under it are all the individual sections of the review) Block off an afternoon, kids, this is a BIG review in at least EIGHT parts. You're gonna wanna play with all that you learn, so that's why you want to be on a Vista machine while reading. Once you are through, you will walk away with a much deeper appreciation for what Vista brings to the table. It's WAY more than just eye candy. Have Fun.

uberg33k50
uberg33k50

Our software vendor should have been more proactive and on top of this. They have promised to be there by December. The machines we are getting have XP Pro with the upgrade to Vista option on machines that supposedly have the hardware to run Vista. I might buy into the security part of Vista but as far as the pretty graphics and other frills...this is a business, if the users want all those pretty things they can do it at home. The computing power of those machines will be aimed at production not supporting eye candy.(I am refering to the "more pleasant user experience" here)

uberg33k50
uberg33k50

Ever since XP came out I have changed the appearance to look like the Win98 desktop. It is less confusing to the users and they feel comforatble at work with it. Vista does not work for us at all because the main software we use will not run on it yet. They are working on it but the software is hudreds of thousands of dollars and it works great so we are not going to change that. I have had no problem getting HP machines with XP Pro...just got 4 today. I have been keeping my eye on the machines that are nearing their 3 year cycle though and thinking of moving a few up to make sure I can still get XP Pro on them.

Adam S
Adam S

I work for a small school district. I am still replacing Windows 98/ME (and even one 95 will have to go soon!) with XP. When I set up a new machine, I downgrade the appearance so that not only does everything look relatively alike, but it performs better and I don't have to retrain anyone. Can the appearance of Vista be brought back to the computer neolithic age? I am also concerned about what flavor to get and what apps and hardware I will have to upgrade when we are finally forced to make the switch.

Big Ole Jack
Big Ole Jack

I think there was confusion in the use of acronyms.

normhaga
normhaga

I upgraded twice for Vista to XP corporate on one laptop. The first time I downgraded to Vista because I could not find XP drivers for some of my hardware. I thought about this for a while and then remembered the many Linux installs I have done in which I had to remove the kernel of an XP driver, especially for Broadcom wireless drivers. While taking apart these drivers, I noticed that the driver package most often contains drivers for previous versions. I reloaded XP, then went to the manufactures web site and DL'd the 32 bit Vista drivers for my hardware and installed them. They work like a charm. While long winded, maybe this will give you some ideas when you need to find drivers for XP on a preconfigured Vista box.

djMot
djMot

Vista is Vista - Home, Home Premium, Business, or Ultra (and the half dozen I didn't mention.) Only real difference is what features are turned on. At the heart of your situation, I would suspect the difference in experience lies in the hardware and corresponding drivers.

Dusterman
Dusterman

Many companies here in Denver have resisted the move to vista and I believe rightly so . . As always I believe that, ms has brought another product to market that is very poorly finished and not really ready for market. . It's cute ......... it is not functional. . It has too many hidden agenda's running in the background , that's what makes it cute and easy to use for the average user , but not a very good product for the day to day business . . On that point ..... I do like the fact that Dell decided to listen to business customers and offer a "unloaded" series of computers. . M2CW

alexander.x.schumann
alexander.x.schumann

Agreed rogsfca! I've upgraded all servers in my company to 2003 R2 and XP etc. The cost alone to move now to the next stanges of Microsoft products has forced the Management Board to instruct me to moe the company to Sun Solaris. I don't like the idea at all but managers dont understand why Microsoft are making so many changes and they seem to simple think "I domt care way; they should stop. It's costing all more money" I personal would like to se Microsoft do more of there marketing to get the Managers involved and informed them of how it will benafit the company and not how it will benafit the IT.