Linux

SuSE 11.0: Winning me over quickly

Jack Wallen responds to reader requests to review the latest offering from OpenSuSE. And boy was he in for a surprise. OpenSuSE won over his heart quickly. Can OpenSuSE win you over too?

I am on a roll here with reviewing distros, so I thought I would take the advice of my readers and add SuSE to the roll call. I went into this with little expectation simply because I have had less-than-stellar experiences with SuSE in the past. This time, however, my experience was much, much different. And if I ever doubted the power and useability of SuSE, I was very wrong.

Let me start off by saying the install was actually OpenSuSE 11.0. I inadvertently downloaded the KDE 4.x version of the iso but, surprisingly enough, I am not regretting it. But before I get into that, let's take a look at what we're dealing with.

Software: You already know this one, OpenSuSE 11.0 with KDE 4.0.4-18 Hardware: AMD 1.1 Ghz processor, 376 MB of RAM, Radeon 7000 graphic card.

So the machine is a bit long in the tooth, but it's good to use to know how low an OS can go. And OpenSuSE met the challenge just fine.

Installation

Funny about Linux installations these days -- they are becoming almost too simple. You toss in the Live CD, wait until it boots, and click the Install icon. That's it. In about 15 minutes, OpenSuSE was up and running on my machine. And, to my surprise, so was KDE 4!

First impressions

As you all know, I am all about the look and feel of a desktop. So when I was greeted with KDE 4, I was a bit disappointed. INITIALLY. But, believe it or not, SuSE has managed to actually pull off a pretty strong KDE 4 desktop. After using the desktop for nearly 48 hours, I have yet to have a single crash. Yeah... I can't believe that either. After installing Kubuntu with KDE 4, I was able to get (and recreate) a crash within about 4.8 minutes of initial boot. But OpenSuSE has done the unthinkable -- made KDE 4 actually useable!

My next impression was how slick OpenSuSE's update manager is. Once you are up and running, the update manager informs you there are updates available. But then it goes one step further and asks if you want updates to be automated and transparent. In other words, the newbie Linux user can finally have updates happen automatically and without their intervention. This, in my opinion, is a boon to Linux because most >= AVERAGE computer users do not want to get their hands dirty. This rivals the Microsoft automatic updates and that is exactly what Linux needs.

So, against my better judgment (as a seasoned Linux user), I set up the automatic, transparent updates and let them run. A few minutes later I received a notice that some of the updates installed required a reboot to take effect. This was obviously a kernel update, so I went ahead and rebooted. When the desktop came up (OpenSuSE has taken it upon themselves to auto load the user instead of having to log in), everything was running perfectly.

Next impressions

One of my biggest surprises was that The GIMP was not installed. I am a BIG GIMP user, and any time I see a Linux distribution that does not automatically install this flagship graphics application I am shocked. Of course, installing the application is a few clicks away and that's exactly what I did next.

Installing software on OpenSuSE is very straightforward. From the main menu you go to Applications|System|Configuration and then click Install Software. You will be required to give the root password and then the application installer (a module of Yast2) will be up and running. Searching for Gimp and checked off everything I needed. The installer then proceeded to download and install everything for me, just like a good package manager should.

Stability/reliability

I have to say I am completely impressed. Any distribution that can make KDE 4 run smoothly is doing something right. I have yet to come across a problem with 11.0. This is a large leap ahead for SuSE, seeing as how the last time I gave it a try (10.0), the installation wouldn't even complete.

I realize that I have not put this installation through anything really rigorous. I have not installed any servers on the system nor am I doing any compiling or number crunching. But what I have been using it for, day-to-day desktop usage, it is very much as up to the task as any other distribution.

Who is it for?

I know that Ubuntu is THE distribution of choice for new users. But I would have to tip my old red hat to OpenSuSE and say their latest offering could easily usurp Ubuntu as the newbie distro of choice. It really is that good. But is OpenSuSE for everyone? Probably not. If you are a true Linux power user this might not be for you. But then, if you are a true Linux power user, you are probably using something like Gentoo or Slackware. But OpenSuSE might just be the one distribution I have come across that is as close to being for "everyone" as I have seen.

Picking nits

Most of my beefs with OpenSuSE have to do with KDE 4. First and foremost is, why in the name of Tux has the KDE team deemed it necessary to NOT include Firefox as the default browser? I realize they are trying to eat their own dog food but come on... Konqueror is not going to usurp Firefox as the browser of choice. That could easily be the deal breaker for many new users. You fire up Konqueror and then have to jump through hoops to get it working with everything on the Web. I went to Gmail and found I only had the minimum of functionality because I was working with an non-supported browser.

I get Kmail as the mail client (though I prefer Thunderbird). It resembles Apple's Mail (at least enough to say "I get it"). But the Konqueror over Firefox I will never understand. I've already mentioned The GIMP.

Final thoughts

I am truly impressed with OpenSuSE 11.0. It has made vast progress from its last iteration. I'm so impressed that I am considering keeping this installation and using it as my Linux test-bed (first things first -- must install Enlightenment).

So if you haven't given SuSE (or OpenSuSE) a try lately, you really should. No... you must. If you are a fan of Linux, you will be doing yourself a big favor by letting OpenSuSE win you over.

About

Jack Wallen is an award-winning writer for TechRepublic and Linux.com. He’s an avid promoter of open source and the voice of The Android Expert. For more news about Jack Wallen, visit his website getjackd.net.

77 comments
ds4211a
ds4211a

First let me say that I was quite satisfied with SuSe 10.2 and 10.3. My PC went merrily along without even a burp. So I decided to upgrade to SuSe 11.0. First, I was unable to upgrade from 10.3 to 11.0. I could not get the OS to upgrade. I tried the automatic repair and manual repair features. I ended up in a groundhog day loop. So I finally said what the hey and did a new install. The 11.0 install worked fine using that procedure. So I decided to do some web browsing. I came across several sites where I got the message that I needed to install a plugin. It turned out that I needed a flash plugin. The flash plugin had worked fine on my SuSe 10.3. But when I tried to install it on 11.0, I kept getting error messages. I needed to install some additional software to meet the dependencies. So I checked Yast and discovered that not all the dependencies were available. I did finally get the flash plugin to install and work. I decided to install Yum as an alternate program for installing some software. Yum was listed in the Yast software repository. So I installed Yum. Well I tried to install Yum. But apparently SuSe did not have the correct dependencies for installing Yum. So my useless Yum sits in a folder until I can find time to figure out what I need to do to fix it. Oh did I mention that SuSe 11.0 can't recognize the same onboard soundcard that worked fine in 10.3? I've gone to the forum pages and the tech pages to solve this problem. I had my soundcard working a couple of times using ALSA. But it stops as soon as I reboot. I know I need to change a configuration file in order to have ALSA configure the soundcard at boot. So I'm considering my options. Should I go back to SUSe 10.3 or try installing another version of Linux? I guess I'm just not Geeky enough for SuSe 11.0.

errol
errol

I tried SuSE 11.0 but had problems getting wifi to work reliably. Works perfectly on 10.3.

jomal1
jomal1

Disappointed with the hardware recognition (as compared with Kubuntu Hardy and PcLinuxOs)unimpressed with the software installer - prefer adept. System crashed on java install. Agree with the comments re Firefox, Gimp etc. A waste of time and effort. This is of course a subjective response based entirely on my system and software requirements.

roy.evison
roy.evison

Dear jo, cannot disagree more, the SuZe software installer is far more flexible than anything Ubuntu has to offer- with the possible exception of its 'add users groups' section. Roy.

vic
vic

Like most people are now saying, whatever distro you've been use to, this distro has moved on some what. I started using version 9.2 and gave up at 10.0, however, this is now in a class of its own. it certainly now caters for anything I want to do with a linux desktop, tech stuff as well as being a well rounded day to day desktop

not
not

I love SuSE 11. It can be simple and it can be the power-user's choice, and every level in between. It is a brilliant and stable operating system. As for Firefox, it was on my desktop when I installed SuSE 11. I don't know what your point is. I don't use Konqueror. And it has all the programmes I need. OpenOffice opened all of my Word and Excel files without a glitch. Thanks, Mark

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

Firefox is great for web browsing in Linux. However, I sometimes use Konquerer for that as well. But, FF falls off at that, while Konquerer is also used like an explorer window (in Windows).

TtfnJohn
TtfnJohn

While the SuSE implementation of KDE 4.1 is good it's still behind the curve, IMHO with what I'm testing now which is Mandriva 2009 Alpha 2 (final release October) Things that didn't and don't work on SuSE do on this remarkably trouble free alpha distro which has all the across the board power for power users and newbies alike. While SuSE is impressive over previous versions it's Achilles heel is still that mess called YaST which, if it isn't the worst installer and control centre combination for Linux is very close to the worst. (Particularly when compared to Mandriva's Control Centre.) Downloading repository data is quite the annoying exercise in eye and wrist spinning clicks asking if you want to download repository signatures. Why ask at all when this information is vital to staying up to date? Just send it down! Mandriva 2009 Alpha 2 hasn't been trouble free though most of the problems are either quickly repaired or identified and solved with alternative solutions. If you want to see KDE 4.1 actually ready for a desktop this is the one to look at. ttfn John

fredmck
fredmck

Absolutely not. No way, no how, I don't give a rat's rear end how well OpenSuSE did on this guy's computer, not after Novell's deal they did with Microsoft, er, uh, the Devil in November of 2006. As far as I'm concerned, SuSE is persona non grata.

not
not

I fear you don't know anything but what poor press releases and critics say. OpenSuSE must operate according to the GPL. By using OpenSuSE in place of Windows (as I now do) you may remove yourself from the MS camp. Personally, I am glad I do not need to rely on MS. I rely now on SuSE. Choice is important. But that does not mean I see MS as evil - they have some good programmers at work. Anyway, cooperation and competition in the computing world is essential for development. Mark

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

In what sense of the word is Novell a 'traitor'? Who did they betray by working with Microsoft? Would you feel the same way if Novell had contractual dealings with Apple? Exactly what's wrong with Novell working with other companies? I'm completely missing your point.

jdclyde
jdclyde

don't need rational reasons. OS zealots are oh so common. commonly ignored, that is.... B-)

SubgeniusD
SubgeniusD

The Novell/MSFT deal was argued to death on Digg (and elsewhere) nearly 2 years ago. Some Linux zealots just need to let it go. Every time any Linux OS replaces a MSFT install --- that is a win for Linux. I prefer using distros put together by brave "freedom fighters" but still support any and all Linux migration no matter the source. And don't forget that Novell has and continues to contribute a lot of code to Open Source.

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

the deal that Novell made with MS is mutually beneficial, and good for the Linux community! Can you find a better way for Linux distros to become more popular dekstops, if businesses can use SUSE and others and integrate them better into MS domains? This (as my understanding of it goes) benefits Linux in general.

PeterPac
PeterPac

I agree with you plus the 5 joined a pack and are protecting Linux patents and Microsoft is not a member of the pact. Novell, Sony, IBM, RedHat and Philips. The other post needs to do their homework before just blurting out any remarks.

clellaja
clellaja

Another distro that's well worthy of a "kick the tires" is PCLinuxOS - it's very simple for novices to install (and can run from a LiveCD), has low system requirements, and the environment (I chose KDE, Gnome is also chooseable) is easy for a Windows convert to mentally adjust to.

jlwallen
jlwallen

i agree with you that PCLinuxOS is an outstanding distro for new users. however, ubuntu simply has far more exposure and has more people creating distributions based on ubuntu. on top of that the ubuntu community is pretty large and, generally speaking, very helpful.

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

Your right the exposure is heavy and in some cases its almost commercially exposed the thing is that Ubuntu caught the mood of the general user or novice they wanted somthing easy but powerful. so I think the exposure was definately targeted in the right direction. and although I agree that PCLinuxOS is very good the exposure just didnt have the punch required to make awareness better and timing was different. I think its a good thing that many people are still involved in the development stages that way we can scrounge all the best bits of code and hopefuly bring it together to make a super distro. I do feel that many distro's are heavily developed now by commercial vendours and its not just Linux look at Openoffice it has 40,00 worldwide working on it and developing it but Sun sytems is a major contributer to its development. bring all that together and you now have Oxygen Office a real counterpart to the Microsoft rival, best of all its free. so i think its a good thing.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

and deals like the one with Dell have helped push Ubuntu as well. Often I hear people talk about Ubuntu, even here on TR. PCLOS gets a lot of exposure here as well, but it seems that Ubuntu holds the title for most new users. Personally, I prefer PCLOS :) SUSE is more like Windows, in that it is bloated. On my 3 yr. old notebook, it took over 4 hours to install SUSE 10, while PCLOS took about 30 min. But in SUSE's defense, it seems to have a lot more to it

drbayer
drbayer

I have a 4 year old desktop that I use at home. Tried installing 10.3 and it took forever. Got 11.0 installed on the same system (blew it away, not an upgrade) in about 20 minutes including KDE4. I liked 10.3 pretty well, but so far performance on 11 has been better all the way around. I did discover that even installing in text mode, you are much better off with at least 512MB ram. Installed 2 VMs running text-only servers. Tried the text-mode installer with 256MB ram, and it was incredibly slow. Bumped the VM up to 512MB, installed, bumped back down to 256MB, and the servers run fine and the system installed much quicker.

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

I think in the earlier days of Ubuntu the idea was to target novice users and alike so the stigma has stuck along with the tradition. I must admit though of all the versions I have tested Kubuntu comes out ontop for me with its simplicity and ease of use. some will be looking to develop and learn on heavier systems but for those who want it for the everday home life or office its great and well recommended. Most of the distros come with liveCD and install options have changed and its a wise move by all.

jmbrasfield
jmbrasfield

I've had the same results. Install and updates have gone without a problem. System has remained rock stable since install. Had to do the usual tweaks to get all the multi-media stuff running, and install the particular programs I use. The YAST installer has worked perfectly every time. Well done to the OpenSuse developers. This thing works and works well.

Dogcatcher
Dogcatcher

The SuSE 11.0 DVD contains Gnome, KDE 3.5, and KDE 4, plus a couple of lightweight interfaces. You can install one or all. The easiest time to change session type is at the login screen. You can add the other graphical interfaces by going to Install Software on the menu, or (my preference) starting YaST and going to Software > Software Management. Change the Filters option to "Patterns", then select whatever environments are of interest. Scroll down a little further and you can pick up whatever servers you need.

matthewsunshine
matthewsunshine

I have a Windows XP and SuSE dual boot.The disc cleanup does not work because of the SuSE dual boot.A great deal of disc space is also taken up.Yet, I can't bring myself to get rid of SuSE.

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

I am not sure where your problem with 10 is. I have very few issues with it. I even CLONED the hard drive while I was using the system (accident, but worthy to note, mis-typed the DD command). The clone worked fine after the 2nd reboot, and I used that system for several months trouble free till the HDD gave way. I put the original back in and its been fine since. I have often mentioned, for a more bloated, more stable and slower Linux system, for newbies to try out SUSE. Novell has done a good job with it (my opinion). As for just a user desktop, this is an understatement. Novell is working hard at Windows compatibility issues, and this is a main distro to be used in Windows based networks. Many companies are using enterprise level SUSE for this reason, so ultimately, SUSE will be one of the better choices on a domain environment. However, there are still better distros out there for the server side, but I have been told that SUSE servers are very good as well. Personally, I prefer PCLOS, but SUSE is my second choice (or first for some things that PCLOS isnt good at).

roy.evison
roy.evison

Have looked at reports of suse 11.0 with interest. Currently use 10.3 and am quite happy with it, except for difficulties in loading/using VirtualBox. Wireless networks are overrated and not something I would want to add anyway.

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

is wifi. PCLOS works fine for me here though, so I really dont have much to complain about. I dont use wireless often enough anyway.

Dogcatcher
Dogcatcher

Wireless setup and support is SuSE's biggest shortcoming. I've never been able to get my Dell Inspiron 1501 WiFi working in any version of SuSE. This is puzzling since WiFi works fine in XP and Vista. If Microsoft can license the Broadcom firmware code, then Dell and/or Novell ought to be able to get it and support it. My work-around, is to boot into XP or Vista if I need a WiFi connection. SuSE's other weak point is that it takes way to much effort to set up Samba. On the flip side, two of SuSE's unheralded strengths are its ability to mount FAT and NTFS drives as easily as Ext3, and the excellent YaST control center.

silaslarrysmith
silaslarrysmith

Well.. Suse 11.0 didn't and hasn't won me over.. Like me, I assume that many users are using wireless and 11.0 didn't do much here. Still not able to use wireless.. and the user interface is much worse than 10.3! Why change a good interface when what is needed is simplicity and 'smart' configuration.. so that the general user doesn't have to configure his own base system...

slubglum
slubglum

Well, I just have two things to say. First off, Mr. Wallen if your pc is long in the tooth then mine must be absolutely ancient. AMD slot 1 Athlon 750Mhz, 1 Gb RAM, and a 128Mb nVidia 5200 graphics card, AGP that is. With the ram and video I can actually play movies and games pretty decently though. As for the one tired of burning CD's, try a virtual PC first. I almost always test the ISO with a virtual CD drive in VMWare or VirtualBox to make sure it isn't corrupted. JB

jlwallen
jlwallen

that machine has very special meaning to me so i keep it around to throw everything at it i can. it was actually a one-off a company created back in the late 90s for me. it's loud and obnoxious but since it's still holding on for dear life - i just don't have the heart to retire it. ;-)

Joe-Swanson
Joe-Swanson

I have a nine year old PII 400 with 512M that I can't get rid of. Win2k just died (registry got too big) so I'm thinking of switching it to Linux and seeing how many more years I can get out of it.

foard
foard

There are many reasons to use Konqueror over firefox. Konq is convergence itself: web browser, text editor, filemanager, ftp/sftp client, the list goes on. Granted, khtml could use a little work but this business of the "unsupported" browser is nothing but a cop out on the part of web developers. This is exactly why we have web standards. I'm really fighting the urge to digress here. Anyway, what I don't understand about KDE4 is the move to dolphin/d3lphin. All that seems to have done is take some of the wind out of Konqueror's sails.

PeterPac
PeterPac

Diehard Kong users have to realize that with Firfoxe 3.xxx versions are supported by most sites and Kong is not. This is one of the main reasons why certain browsers are used and not just because it edits. Besides with the add-ons Firefox can do everything Kong can do and more. KDE developers are known to be introverted to their ideas only and will not listen to outsiders. I know this as I work with OpenSuse and with the KDE developers. Most distros have furthered developed KDE to meet the needs of their users and SuSe uses Firefox. As a SuSe user you have the choice of using Kong or Firefox and/or both. I have both installed with no conflicts at all so your argument is actually null. Your choice of browsers is an option for you as a user and does not digress the function of the operating system that others want to see or use.

javalexlan
javalexlan

I've using SUSE 11.0 for a few weeks now and initially I had some troubles with media reproduction (choppy sound and DVD playing), something that I had almost automated for previous versions and that required a some extra work to fix, but beside that SUSE 11.0 it's a great improvement and I'm very happy with it and since the green is my favorite color the default SUSE theme is still the perfect match for my green laptop (I mean the color, nothing more :-)).

Sirgwain
Sirgwain

Hell, it's not winning me over quickly. I STILL can't get it to install even AFTER CAREFULLY READING the damned download, checksum, CD-burning instructions from the horse's mouth--the openSUSE website! Any help here would be greatly appreciated. Anyone else had this problem? I have wasted too many CD's to burn another copy without some definitive solution.

PeterPac
PeterPac

Are you downloading the Live CD, the 5 CD's or the DVD installation? You need to make sure you are using a iso image burner and not just data copying. The way you stated I think you are not burning the CD correctly and this is very important. What are you using to burn the Cd? Are you using a windows burner or are you on another Linux system? Do a search for iso image burner and then use the one for whatever system you are on to burn the Cd.

cflange
cflange

You should get better help here: http://forums.opensuse.org/

Haas
Haas

If you go here http://software.opensuse.org/ which is the download page, you can basically do the internet install and don't have to burn anymore CDs. HPH

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

that I dont bother with Virtual machines anymore. a couple of weeks ago I sent 30 systems to recycling, and I aleady have more than 18 systems that I have wiped. Plus, I hvae about 15 HDD's (blank) and USB caddys, systems to put them in, etc.. I usually dont have a problem finding a system to download and test on. My problem is finding TIME to do it :D

Joe-Swanson
Joe-Swanson

Did you try installing it under VM Ware or Virtual Box?

vdicarlo
vdicarlo

Most of the comments I've seen about Opensuse 11.0 with KDE 4.0 are gripes about how it is not as stable or functional as it's predecessor. Opensuse 10.3, which offered KDE 3.x. It's interesting to see that, compared with other OS/desktop combinations, the author of the review above thought it was an improvement. Just goes to show you how easy, stable, powerful, and just plain useful Opensuse 10.3 with KDE is. I've been using the Suse distributions with KDE for a few years now, after trying several others, some repeatedly, and while I imagine I will eventually switch to Suse 11 with KDE, I really like what I've got and it may be some time before I'm sure that the radically new KDE desktop is ready to deliver all the functionality and convenience that those terrific Opensuse and KDE developers (thanks, guys!) have spoiled me with. I'm looking forward to it.

Dogcatcher
Dogcatcher

Although the author of the original post chose to go with KDE 4, you don't have to. You can install SuSE 11 with KDE 3.5 and get the best of both worlds. KDE 3.5 is on the DVD, or download it later and switch session type as you login.

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

I never once mentioned anyone should not be using linux! Not once! I said wich is my oppion in a free world by the way! I didnt get any crashes on my pc or laptop and i was making an oppionion of my own by the way that its obvious that linux cannot sustain old machines for ever in my oppinion in a free world!!! and guess what you seem to be the one with a problem if you cant hold a discussion in a public forum without obviously loosing your napper and spitting out the dummy then maybe you should go to yahoo fightclub and join the other children for a fight. You obviously dont have the wit or intelegeance to hold a civil disccusion and my comments must hold water if this is how you react! the disscussion is at an end because quite clearly im not holding a fight with a child. Oh and guess wat i dont need to swear to get my point over and i obviously made it!!!!!!!

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

"dont have the wit or intelegeance..." :^0

jdclyde
jdclyde

You have stated (poorly, by the way) your OPINION. As someone that is EASILY running the corporate web server on linux using a PII Pro 200, without ANY issues, I can say first hand that you CAN run linux on the older systems just fine. You need to learn more about computers before you try to tell us what is "obvious". Linux isn't the solution for everyone or for every case, but there is no single best tool for any job. A current version of linux will run better on old hardware than a current version of windows will, huh?

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

Look I,m not saying it doesnt run todays systems and when you pick a specific like servers you are then directing your comment in one direction? If you look carefully at what i'm saying its that it doesnt matter what we are using in terms of servers, Home PC's, Networks or any other that extends into hardware and technology issues. we are going towards new and different technologies that dictate we have to adapt. Its not me saying this its the way of the world and common sense. You can't stop evolutions of new technology and wether we like it or not the world is constantly moving in that direction. now we have new computerised systems built into TV's, small phones, play stations that can carry linux and more? so I believe that PC desktops as we know it are going to change drastically and in some quarters they already have. I'm not telling people to throw there machines out or buy new ones? infact I commented in the debate that all i did to enhance my PC was to buy memory and a new graph card. It very obvious and that In my experience that different versions of linux work better with some systems than others. infact I run Kubuntu on my Laptop with no swap and it runs bueatifuly. I have experienced issues with compatibility on other versions but thats for the developers to worry about in developing drivers! I'm not perfect and im certainly never always right persons interpretation of somthing can be vastly different from anothers, thats human nature. You may think I put my point accross poorly and you are entitled to think that but you maybe wrong for interpreting it the way you think? one things for sure i do have an understanding of how the markets and technology direct us, in todays modern world the consumer and expectations demand better, and better, even at the expense of leaving others behind, and the more commercialy viable the product, the more the challenge will be ahead! I personaly think linux in all its versions is brilliant and what realy makes it worthy is how it extends the devides even into third world country's making it affordable for the less fortunate but this is where you draw the line. theres free and then theres commercial thats allways going to be the case and the issue. remember why linux first started? it was to kick commercial vendours like microsft in the wallet and give the world a choice and yes in a sense its done that but not to the expectations of the original concepts born of those early pioneers. the easier linux gets the more attention it will get, in the early days people staid away because they didnt understand it or found it difficult to use. so we have to Impress and educate but dont forget commercialism will always play a part people will want more from it especially in regards to technology.

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

When you've been here as long as w2ktechman, and have proven yourself to the community here, then you can flame him. Until you get a few thumbs after your name and figure out who's who at TR, you may be better served to avoid name calling.

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

Yes, anyone can answer questions. And if they are wrong, they would not be recorded as rigt (by most at least). I will also agree that just being a long time member does not make that person automatically right. However, it does add credibility as for technical skills. As for bad language, get used to it. Even in jest here, some use bad language or suggestive acronyms. If you cant handle it, I suggest limiting exposure to those who do this the most. The 'back off' point made by Palmetto was a justified 3rd party intervention. Sometimes we do this to prevent a flare up or flame wars from beginning/worsening! Since you are a new member, I will give you the benefit of a doubt here. A few good pointers. 1. Do not take things personally. Everyone says something to piss someone off from time to time. 2. Learn a little about the forum that you are commenting to, and the people that are there. 3. when writing something, it is not a good idea to insult the other for a difference of opinion. However, it may happen, even on accident. When it does, it is a good idea to step back and re-think what was written. 4. Everyone has their views. Even if they differ from yours, even if you know yours is right, it may not be right for everyone! There WILL be disagreements to varying degrees when in a worldwide discussion.

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

Just because a member has points and has been here longer does not make them right! This is a discussion forum and as such I expect people here to able to share and contimplate a view thats called democracy. I certainly wont stand for anyone using bad language iether by anagram or word and i will report any such member doing so from now on! I am quite willing to acept 50% of the blame for missunderstanding as i believe we both misread our intentions. Its not for you to tell anyone to back off any discussion unless its deemed as offensive and in that respective you only have the right to make a complaint! Every single person in this forum deserves the respect to put there views across and im sure that w2k is big enough to fight his own battles! so bearing in mind any views you have be respectful enough to allow others to have theres!

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

You obviously have a reading/comprehension disorder and aer not worth anymore of my time!

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

attack you or start nothin. And I did sleep fine last night, without worry of what went on here. Bt continuing this was leading just going downhill, which was not my intent here.

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

everybody can see wat was written its in the forum notes there for all. nobody twisted anything not on my part if you have taken it as an insult it was never ment to be insulting it was purley basing a fact of life that at some point we have to give up the ghost and move on technology and software dictate that not me! if you have taken this as a personal insult it was never intended and my appologies but thats not my fault you are not in full comprehention of the subject and that you don't understand so i guess its not your fault iether. so bare in mind that we are all entitled to our oppinion in here and are so without harassment or due stress by any other person and as such we should conduct ourselfs in that manner!

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

Your words "In-reply to wk2ketchman last response I never once mentioned anyone should not be using linux! Not once!" When did I say or imply that you said not to use Linux? I just re-read each of the posts of ours in this thread, and could not find it. My original reply was basically bringing up that it was not a BAD thing to use/try/test on an older system. And then I agreed that it works BETTER on newer systems as you mentioned. You turned that into all old systems are decrepid and should be tossed out. Why, because there are newer things out there? Just because someone CAN upgrade, or Wants to try Linux, they dont NEED to buy a new system. That was my point. Now how does that turn into stating that you want nobody to tyr Linux??? You are obviously full of yourself completely, and just like to see that you typed words and they went somewhere. And my comment "WTF is wrong with that", Ok, it was using an acrionym of a curse word, however that word was not directed AT you, but was a question to you! If you cannot comprehend that, then you are truly not as intelligent as you seem to think you are!

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

If you've got a better machine to test on, then great! if not, try it anyway! Now WTF is wrong with that??? Posted: 07/22/2008 @ 09:49 PM (PDT) w2ktechman 228 I dont think im the one with the disorder do you?????

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

I agree that Suse 10.3 is pretty stable but in the review above I also didnt see any reason to change from Kubuntu 8.10. The mention of all these features and improvements in suse 11 are already present in Ubuntu versions and have been since versions 7 and above with the KDE 4. I must also say that I have found in my experience of installing Linux the more memory the better. I have never had a crash in iether suse or Kubuntu as my systems are running 1gig on my pc and 2gig on my laptop. My philosophy is if your going to try to stuff an elephant in a mini why not just buy a bigger car and save the effort?

martian
martian

Better patent that time machine while you still can... Last time I checked, *buntu versions were named by 8 denoting 2008 followed by the month of release, in this case 04... 10 won't be out until October.

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

Im using Kubuntu 8.41 a 64bit on one machine and a 32bit on other this version is with the KDE 4.1 built in and its class. Nice and simple and the compatibility is really good with both versions and stability is outstanding I had no issues at all.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

The Linux community has been saying for years, to bring an old system back to life with Linux. So now you are saying, just buy a new system? Sounds like the MS way to me! One thing that I do like about Linux is it's ability to work better on older systems. However, having said that, it does run much better on newer systems :) So, we get the best of both with Linux :)

jdclyde
jdclyde

The oldest, our web server, has a working copy on our test server (PII 450 server). We do all the changes on that, get it working, and then copy it to the live server. If the live server were to go down, we can just change the IP of the test server. The moderately old systems, we have all the spare parts, from the MB/CPU/and extra hard drives. there are twins of this system, so worst case, one could just double up. There isn't more than two things running on any single server, so if one were to die, we only lose that small piece. Being an all *nix shop, each server is only running about about 25% capacity, so any of them can easily double up if needed. It is all server grade though, almost all of them running raid5. The data is safe. The only one not running raid5 is our one win2k server, and all that does is feed the AV, which could die for a day or two and no one would know the difference. I am generally not worried about our servers. hoping and praying for more of the old 3com superstack HUBS to die, so I can put in switches, is another matter.... :p

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

fixed or replaced quickly, I guess it doesnt matter. Heck, they can probably be replaced with a powerful desktop system these days!

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

but I was too lazy to look it up! :^0

jdclyde
jdclyde

I blame in part my old boss who retired last year. He cut things TO tight, and now it is hard to get some things back to where they should be. Now, with the economy slow down, it is almost impossible to buy anything that we don't HAVE to have. Something has to give.

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

I've told several the quotations for an annual maintenance contract on an existing five-year-old server exceed the cost of replacing the hardware. I didn't even have to lie.

jdclyde
jdclyde

Ever try telling an accountant you can't use a server anymore because it is old? The first thing they will ask is "is it still working?" The nice thing about most linux servers is many of the services are fairly quick to re-setup on a new system if the hardware were to fail. The server we are using for our corporate web site is at least 12 years old. The mission critical systems are on newer hardware though.

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

I wonder about the reliability of such systems. They become expensive to impossible to purchase third-party hardware maintenance contracts. I guess you could keep a couple spares on hand, but who wants to store a bunch of old "just in case" parts and systems? In a non-production lab or in an environment where downtime isn't critical, using older hardware is a great idea. It's also good in cases where multiple servers performing the same function, like DNS or proxy servers.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

I had stated in each of the 2 posts above, that it works good on new machines as well as ols systems. How is that telling everyone that they cannot use it on new machines? Obviously, it appears that you are the one with the issue here, trying to push the 'buy a new system to use it' angle. What I stated was accurate, and not biased. I never said that anyone had to only use it on old systems, but for someone to test with, and download a distro, they dont NEED to buy a new machine and soup it up! If you've got a better machine to test on, then great! if not, try it anyway! Now WTF is wrong with that???

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

Your right about one thing yes its up to the person using it and yes they do have a choice they can stay with the old if they want? but not everyone wants to stay with them! what is it your saying? that we keep using linux for generations to come on old machines? can you imagine the development of the biggest software bundlew on the planet lol. You are very well aware that in todays modern age that technology is coming forward from a stagnant point again and in the last 3 years alone a massive leap has been made across the spectrum of technological breakthru's are you seriously expecting those who want a piece of the pie to say no because you are? You have missed the point about linux its not all about staying in one place its about the freedom to move into the future without being told what to do. its developed by like minded individuals that want to take this excellent and free software to the place it belongs, at the top! and i beleive one day its going to get there. so yes its compatibillity with old machines will always be there but for old machines of its time.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

Just because there is newer stuff out does not mean that we should have to upgrade all HW to get SW working on it. I've got several versions of Linux working on several machines. The ages of the machines are between 2 and 5 yrs old. Linux works great on these systems. But the 5 yr old machine is hardly decrepid, and runs XP fairly well still. As I said, we get the best of both worlds, but that hardly means we all gotta buy all new systems to try a Linux distro! For Vista -- Yes, in most cases.

PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266
PJTIPS-22358776250307586412157057903266

If a system is so old and decrebid then using more advanced versions odf linux seems rediculous. at some point we all have to ask ourselfs if the animal is suffering then put it out of its misery! Ofcourse this doesnt apply to all systems like myself my machine is over 3 years old so I went out and topped it up with some memory and a new graphics card and its working as good as the day it was born. so I didnt need to buy new. The issue is are people expecting linux to go on running the same old show or do they want it to become more advanced and in line with expectations? so the old isnt really going to stay with the new. to what length are we prepared to stay behind for the sake of old machines and is it really productive with todays software development.

danielt17
danielt17

I'm downloading OpenSuse 11.0 right now and going to install it on VMware!. I gotta update my Linux skills :(

The Scummy One
The Scummy One

as my OpenSUSE 10.3 has been working just fine for me. Every time I think about blowing it away for the new ver, I decide -- NOPE!

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