Open Source

Ubuntu pulls the 'official' plug on Kubuntu

The news that Canonical has dropped Kubuntu as an official distribution hits the KDE desktop where it counts. Jack Wallen offers up his take on this developing situation.

On February 6th, 2012, from the fingertips of Jonathan Riddell came the following announcement:

Today I bring the disappointing news that Canonical will no longer be funding my work on Kubuntu after 12.04. Canonical wants to treat Kubuntu in the same way as the other community flavors such as Edubuntu, Lubuntu, and Xubuntu, and support the projects with infrastructure. This is a big challenge to Kubuntu of course and KDE as well.

The practical changes are I won't be able to work on KDE bits in my work time after 12.04 and there won't be paid support for versions after 12.04. This is a rational business decision, Kubuntu has not been a business success after 7 years of trying, and it is unrealistic to expect it to continue to have financial resources put into it.

I have been trying for the last 7 years to create a distro to show the excellent KDE technology in its best light, and we have a lovely community now built around that vision, but it has not taken over the world commercially and shows no immediate signs of doing so despite awesome successes like the world's largest Linux deployment.

Although I don't regularly use the latest KDE desktop and as much business sense as this makes, I still read this with a heavy heart. This marks the loss of the last major distribution to ship with a KDE desktop. Yes, you can still get Kubuntu; you can find releases of other distributions with KDE; you can even install KDE alongside of your current desktop. But try to find a major Linux distribution that ships with KDE as the default desktop. You're going to be hard pressed to do so.

But that doesn't mean KDE is dead -- nor will it ever die. Why? Because KDE very well represents the open source spirit and is the last remaining Linux desktop that resembles that standard desktop metaphor. For this very reason, KDE cannot die. This is also, I believe, one of the unspoken, underlying reasons Canonical dropped KDE.

It's not Unity.

This is probably an ugly truth few want to mention. And although I highly respect what Canonical and Ubuntu has done for the Linux world -- I have to think that any competition on the Linux desktop would be seen as bad business for Canonical. Why? They have a product they have bet the bank on. That product is Ubuntu Unity. And although it's not a bad product, it's a very different product than what the computing world is used to. Now, I have watched that same community accept change over time. And even though they do so begrudgingly, if you offer them a product that works, and works efficiently, they will (over time) accept your product. They did it with Windows 7 and they'll do it with Windows 8. Eventually, that same community will accept both GNOME 3 and Unity. But for the time being, Canonical cannot risk the majority of its users jumping ship and migrating from the official Ubuntu with Unity, to the other official Ubuntu with KDE. So the obvious choice was to drop Kubuntu as an official distribution.

The dropping of Kubuntu does a number of things:

  • It means it will get no financial support from Canonical.
  • The distribution will lose what little marketing it received from Canonical.
  • Kubuntu most likely will flounder and die.

Something radical could (and should) come out of this. I would like to see the KDE team create a new distribution of Linux and simple call it KOS -- no silly take on the name "Linux". Just KOS. This would focus every KDE-centric developer on creating a distribution with the sole purpose of supporting an outstanding desktop. This would do so much for KDE and would bring a far stronger distribution to light than would another Kubuntu.

Otherwise, what's going to happen is that Kubuntu will fall into the same obscure pile as Xubuntu, Edubuntu, and all the other *buntus out there. KDE does not deserve such a fate. KDE is one of the most polished, professional desktops available for the Linux operating system and deserves to be made available through some official channel.

I would hate to see KDE wind up nothing more than an alternative desktop that can be installed from within the Add/Remove Software tool. I've used KDE (on and off) since it's beta release and know how passionate the KDE developers are and how solid the product is. I sincerely hope the loss of Canonical's support for Kubuntu doesn't serve as yet another blow to the "K" Desktop Environment. Linux without KDE is simply not the Linux I've known and loved since the mid-90s.

About

Jack Wallen is an award-winning writer for TechRepublic and Linux.com. He’s an avid promoter of open source and the voice of The Android Expert. For more news about Jack Wallen, visit his website getjackd.net.

152 comments
melli5
melli5

Atch666, no quality linux programs compared to windows, what planet are you living on.  the hardest thing I found making the conversion from windows to linux was figuring out what the windows equivalent programs are on linux.  Linux programs generally take an abbreviation of the project name, so you end up with names like GIMP (linux version of photoshop), which to most people means nothing and therefore fall short on a marketing perspective, however it is definitely just as capable as Photoshop, and I even go as far as saying more stable/less bugy then Photoshop on windows.

inkScape vs Adobe illustrator, is another example for a graphics program.

IDE's take your pick there are hundreds of fair comparisons to visual studio on linux, I tend to use eclipse, but there are certainly plenty of others if eclipse doesn't tickle your fancy. 

Office, ever heard of open office :-)

I have to admit, there are some crappy programs linux, being developed by some backyard programmer.  there are a lot of programs that have great features, but the interface is just horrible, and visa versa, but you tend to find these programs are the obscure ones you'd rarely or even never use anyway.

I know I'll never go back to windows.

rhinolinux
rhinolinux

Hello, just want to tell you all about the upcoming release of RhinoLINUX, built on the codebases of Ubuntu, and LinuxMint. Our first public release, due shortly, is actually version 3.0 as there were two versions which are development builds only. The RhinoLINUX THREE beta is codenamed "Oneiric ANJI" and as the name implies it is compatible and can use Ubuntu's "oneiric" software repositories.Of course, much of the available Debian applications will work too. We like the idea of choice, especially with new technologies and ideas, the choice to try them, but also one should be able to reject them and continue the way you have been all along. One of the goals of RhinoLINUX, an important one, is to give users the ability to be free in another sense, where their computer operating system, OUT OF THE BOX, is able to allow them to open and edit all common documents and media types, browse the web and communicate using apps we all rely on and are familiar with such as Skype.and Firefox, and also the system itself must be robust, with BUILT-IN backup tools, disk maintenance and recovery apps that work, and do so as SAFELY as possible. Additionally, it was important for us that backward and cross-platform application AND operating system compatibility was included. To this end RhinoLINUX includes VirtualX, our emulation and virtual apps suite, as well as Wine, which has matured and able to run almost any MS Windows app. Desktop environments, which we always found to be one of the most exciting Linux features, that one could have different dashboards on the same engine effectively, are very personal choices at the end of it really, we are all our own person with our own way of working, and I think it is blinkered and even a bit arrogant to try force all yours users to adopt what you like or want to be the standard, back to Bill Gates-style bullying. So RhinoLINUX offers choice here again : Gnome 3, Classic, LXDE, XFCe, Fluxbox, Enlightenment, and the Cinnamon shell. This has become our oasis in the Unity/Gnome issue, and we are confident enough about it that Cinnamon is the default user interface. RhinoLINUX aims to improve on, not replace, its upstream distros, by adding what we felt were essential, and necessary applications, and functionality to them, and then bundling choice, functionality and a bit of fun :). In the words of Mark Shuttleworth, we did what he did with Debian, "stood on the shoulders of giants". The RhinoLINUX distribution can ease the stress on Ubuntu users frustrated with the recent shell changes, while still remaining compatible. Please view our website and Facebook group for more information, download mirrors to be announced shortly. Website: http://www.rhinolinux.com/ - FB group RhinoLINUX (Many screenshots are here) - Hope to see you on our group/site member lists soon.

George2343
George2343

The first system I started using using was Windows 2000, I had to learn how to use it. Then Windows XP Pro, again I had to learn how to use it. I went on line and ask for help in a polite manner and got answers and alot of them referred me to web site that had the answer to my question. I had to read the help pages to get the answer to my question as I have had to do with any Linus system that I've tried to use. As of now, I am using PCLinuxOS with the LXDE Desktop, I have tried Ubuntu and several other Linux Systems, I like PCLinuxOS best of all. The thing is as with any system you use whether it be Windows or Linux you still have to learn how to use them and if you are not willing to put the time in to learn how to use it, then don't be bad mouthing it. I admit that Linux is hard to learn if you are a Windows user as I have been and still am because I am still trying to learn how to use the Linux system. All I'm saying is, you only get out of it what you are willing to put into it, as far as help from the Linux people goes it has been great of course they send me to help sites and I have to read it to get the answer to my question. Question is, are you to sorry to do what it takes to learn? If so then Linux isn't for you.

murfish2003
murfish2003

Don't whinge about linux not having a larger market share, because the attitude of some of you really leaves a lot to be desired. Basic courtesy goes a long way!

myangeldust
myangeldust

This is why most users don't get into Linux. K-, L-, Ed- Ubuntu? Come on already. Are those even real? Now I gotta look those up.

RickB9
RickB9

Although I don't use KDE, I think it's the best looking of all the Desktop Environments and I'm sure it will continue on strongly, for that reason alone.

ProBasix
ProBasix

"...loss of the last major distrobution to ship with a KDE desktop..." Did you leave someone out...?

itadmin
itadmin

Mepis (mepis.org) has KDE by default and is based on Debian stable. It installs first time without any difficulties at all. It includes all the codecs and players needed for commonly used multimedia as found on the Net. It's more stable than Ubuntu and Mint. A first time user, and old users, should really give Mepis a try.

techrepublic@
techrepublic@

There is already more than enough desktop distributions. I think it would be far better for KDE people to help existing distributions implement KDE in a optimal fashion. Another possibility would be to provide their own repositories and packages for distribution that don't provide KDE or provide poor implementations. KDE 4.8 is the best desktop environment I ever used. Easy to use,l powerful, very flexible, and with an impressive set of features. And after customizing to my taste, very beautiful.

paulfx1
paulfx1

My first experience running KDE was in 1997 I think it was and I ran version 0.14 on Slackware. I might have been the only person on Earth to have done it too. Because back then Slackware didn't support glibc2 applications. Getting glibc2 to run alongside libc5 was kind of tricky for me to do. It wasn't an option that was offered, I had to build it all and by all I mean glibc2, QT, and all of KDE from source, in a very particular way too I might add. Was no simple case of ./configure;make;make install. When I finally got it all to work I'll admit I only ran KDE for a few minutes because it really wasn't too useful back then. It was still an epic high water mark of Linux hacking for me though. Since then compiling code has lost a lot of its luster to me. Still nice to know that no matter what things can be made to work if one is prepared to make the effort.

stuart_lesnett@lesnett.
stuart_lesnett@lesnett.

I have not used KDE under Ubuntu since Ubuntu 10.4 which is still current Linux. I didn't have problems installing but did have problems finding things. I feel that Ubuntu is heading for major problem with the latest changes in direction in 11 and 12. Linux still has many problems with audio, especially pulse, tv cards, i.e entertainment center, conferencing both audio and video unlike Apple and Windows which learned early to handle the wants. Android the kid on the block and my almost reader. Our local library networks has selected the Overdrive application "Windows" as EPUB, PDF and Audio delivery system, i.e. WMA, etc. I have 3 systems 1. desktop 'Ubuntu', laptop 'Windows' EPUBs downloads, Accounting and Tax programs and the tablet Android for a reader and net surfing while computing daily. I thought Ubuntu just might cover all these situation but once again they've lost sight of the user and started play with IT interfaces such as Gnome vs Unity. They seem to missed one basic rule which is the user rules, IBM in the 60s and 70s gave the schools the their systems understanding these students would be the purchasers in the future and as did Windows... It is real to bad so many Linux's so little understanding.

wnematollahi
wnematollahi

"And although [Unity is] not a bad product, it???s a very different product than what the computing world is used to. Now, I have watched that same community accept change over time. And even though they do so begrudgingly, if you offer them a product that works, and works efficiently, they will (over time) accept your product. They did it with Windows 7 and they???ll do it with Windows 8." With all due respect, you are one of the few who believes Unity is not a bad product. Amazingly, you also appear to believe that Win8 is not a bad product!! Canonical is digging its own grave by its refusal to admit that Unity is not very good. I migrated to Arch Linux (xfce) from Ubuntu. As for Win8 (son of Vista), I guess that Micro$oft really wants to boost the fortunes of Apple and the successful Linux distributors, the ones that know that KDE is here to stay.

Cybie257
Cybie257

It's true, Unity killed Ubuntu for me. Almost killed Linux for me. I love Linux and Ubuntu, but like KDE, Unity should hit the road. Gnome/Gnome Classic was the easiest, simplest to use/navigate DE that I have ever used. Unity made it a mess and as far as I am concerned, very Vista like. I've since stopped installing new version of Ubuntu, sticking to 10.04LTS. But, now I've possibly found an Ubuntu Based Distro that brings back the proper feel and simplicity along with an old name that I love dearly. It's a new OS called Commodore OS. I've been a big fan of Ubuntu for many years, since 6.06, but not since Unity 11.04/11.11. Not my thing and is very annoying if I may say. Many things I see going wrong with Linux that keeps it from becoming mainstream and that's just the fact that there are too many variations and distributions. Too much choice is just as bad as not enough choice. Linux has a long ways to go before anything big happens with it and getting rid of Kubuntu is a good start to head in that direction. You can't support too many of similar products that aren't compatible with each other (in general terms, not geek abilities) and expect your products to take off, free or not free of charge.

Brian Doe
Brian Doe

Although Kubuntu may have been one of the most popular KDE-based distros, it is not the only major KDE distro out there. OpenSUSE ships with KDE as its default desktop.

oldbaritone
oldbaritone

Ubuntu kills Kubuntu. I installed Ubuntu Unity 12.04 and hated it enough to uninstall it; I installed the Kubuntu version and it was easy to run. If Ubuntu is flushing KDE, I guess it's time to flush Ubuntu.

Bob-El
Bob-El

From my perspective, it's funny (not in the "ha! ha!" sense) how things are going with Ubuntu. I first explored Ubuntu several years ago on an old Pentium III desktop and an old Toshiba laptop now over 10 years old. With new releases up to 10.04, I found my old "box" was running slower and slower. So I replaced my motherboard with an Athlon-based one that had been given to me by a friend. It's an oldie also but half as old, perhaps, as the PIII. Meanwhile, I was running 10.04 on the laptop having problems with unexplained freezes, a carry-over problem from 9.04. A few months ago, Jack (I think it was Jack) wrote a blog on XFCE stating that it often worked better on older computers. So I installed Xubuntu (I think 10.04) on my laptop and, for the few things I run on it, it works. I can't say that XFCE is a beautiful GUI. It isn't. But best of all, the unexplained freezes have disappeared. A couple of years ago I purchased an ASUS Netbook on which I dual-booted 10.04 and Win7. Initially, I chose the Netbook Remix version which, I assume, was a sort-of precursor to Trinity. After a year of not really liking it, I installed 11.04 and passed on Trinity in favour of Gnome 2. I had previously installed 11.04 on my desktop computer and Trinity would not even install on it. I assume it's because the built-in graphics processor is rather lame. At this point, the only computers I have that I think would run Trinity are my other desktop running Windows 7 and my Netbook. So, I've been thinking about jumping ship and trying Linux Mint 12. I follow Jack's blogs regularly. I like his writing style and, in general, I find his advice and opinions of value. I had been thinking of giving Kubuntu a try. From what I can see it is not as far removed from Gnome as Trinity. But that won't be happening anymore. It's interesting the direction taken by Ubuntu with Trinity. Look at Windows 8. Are these GUIs simple change for the sake of change or are they REALLY and improvement? Do we need a change? As for Apple, I gave up on them years ago when an OS change meant a new computer. I figure Apple computers are for people with money to spare or so completely computer illiterate, they have not other choice. What is an operating system with a GUI if not a means by which we access software for entertainment, work, play or education? Yes, it's nice to have an attractive desktop but isn't that what wallpaper is for? Some people dress up their desktop with pictures and others with folders. Shouldn't we have the choice as to how our desktops should look? When I used Remix I missed the convenience of just dropping temporary files or important links on my desktop. I may be mistaken but doesn't Trinity prohibit that also? When I get new software, I realize there's a learning curve. But do I really want to experience a major learning curve like Trinity or Windows 8? Not I! I don't view these changes as improving my computing experience. I expect these changes will waste my time learning them when I could be better engaged doing other things. I may be retired, but I'm not dead and I have other things I want to spend my time doing. I do not feel the need to have a new interface. So, in the spring, when the cold and snow have abandoned Canada for another few months and I return from Costa Rica, I think I will give Linux Mint 12 a good look and see if it doesn't please me more than the mutation of Ubuntu.

skinch
skinch

What about Mandriva? I have not used Linux for a few years but when I did I kicked off with Mandrake (later Mandriva) and I think that it still ships with KDE by default doesn't it?

billyg
billyg

This will be a natural selection of sorts. It will be good for KDE to stand on its own three legs. "What don't kill fatten." Canonical is behaving like a real business. This is good for them.

TG2
TG2

The entire problem starts at and with the installation. When was the last time you ran through an installer, or had the option after the fact, to look at, test drive, and make a more informed choice on your desktop when installing said OS? Newbies have no clue ... and people coming from XP, Vista, and 7, are *NOT* going to be thrilled with trying out a Touch based Interface ... especially since they don't HAVE touch screens.. and just like Windows 8 ... who wants to scroll with their mouse three fourths of the screen, when they use to just click once and have a list of apps ... or for the few times hit the "programs" menu and again were presented with a list within half an inch of mouse movement. Idiots at Gnome & Ubuntu are planning for everyone to have a touch screen... 5 or 8 years down the road maybe so ... but they've lost the users of TODAY's computers.. and it would be my sincere hope that this slaps them in the face and people move away from them for their stupidity ... I mean these are people more intelligent than *I* yet they can't make their program work on a 22inch screen, so that the mouse menus stay within the windowed application space? ie.. I don't run *anything* full screen and rather than *see* the app is windowed and keep the menus *with* the app ... they always force the menu's back up top? Is that intelligent? I think not.. it smacks more of stupidity and arrogance thinking they know best.. when obviously they don't .. Their only saving grace, at this point, is that people don't have to pay them for the privilege of their stupidity. That's why I can't wait to see Microsoft push 8 onto people's desktops ... watch that people won't pay for the piece of sh*t microsoft wants to peddle..

bzebarth
bzebarth

Kubuntu wasn't the last or even best Linux distro to ship with KDE. openSUSE ships with it, along with other desktops, but KDE is well supported. I have been using it for a while since deciding I didn't like Unity or GNOME 3. Sure this decision is a big blow to KDE but I think as the rest of the Linux desktop world moves away from traditional desktops, a lot of people like myself will discover KDE.

dr.it.weldoc
dr.it.weldoc

Have worked with both Ubuntu and Kubuntu and always have preferred KDE over Gnome. I don't know why really I just like the look and flow of KDE better. I have been very happy with KDE4. My favorite Linux flavor is PCLinuxOS with KDE4. Sorry Ubuntu.

kthan
kthan

I use SuSE Linux with KDE desktop as my primary Linux development workstation. Try SuSE if you want a strong KDE desktop. I primarily develop Python and perl scripts for our ERP system that runs on IBM AIX, and the KDE desktop makes for a very productive development environment.

majortomgb
majortomgb

I still find all the Ubuntu derivatives generally worse than PCLinuxOS which I have been using for a number of years now. Just because it's the most popular doesn't mean it's the best. Instead of looking for another Ubuntu derivative, try some of the other ones out there. My feeling is that Ubuntu are the Microsoft of The Linux world forcing change their way when nobody wants it.

atch666
atch666

It is true that in any case you have to learn. But, but, but, but... The point is that to learn a OS should be minimal, because the main work you want to do is to use ACTUAL programs installed on it not the system itself. OS should be like a table where you put your things and you using them, straight away - windows lets you do it, linux demands from you to first master the aforementioned table (which in linux's case is so complicated, that even linux's users admit that to learn linux cost them sweat and blood). And that's the whole point. You have to/want to use programs, and system should be assisting you with it not distracting you from it. That's why time should be spend on learning programs (AutoCAD, Photoshop, Visual Studio etc ) not system.

Tin_Kicker
Tin_Kicker

Hi, I'm not a Linux user, though over the last four or so years I've test-driven some of the Ubuntu distros, and I'd really, really LOVE to get away from Microsoft totally. I still have hopes of that. So I keep coming back to these sort of discussions for some encouragement to invest WAY more time in learning Linux than I ever had to with Windows, starting way back with 3.1. In my opinion, it's not really a mark of intelligence to want to learn how a calculator works just so I can add 2 + 2. I just want to get it done and move on. I'm just not getting the feeling that anybody WANTS to encourage anyone to go to Linux, because it seems like there's such an atmosphere of "I had to learn machine language in order to install Linux programs...you should too, you idiot". Why would I want to associate with people filled with so much vitriol? Oh, to be fair, I've seen extremes in both directions. A few of you have been extremely nice...people I'd actually like to know. Others remind me of a coworker I have...a lot of bipolar oral diarrhea. I'm actually in customer service. Have been for over twenty years. Do people bug me? Yes. Do I get stressed over ignorant questions. Of course. Do I chew them out for not knowing something or (gasp!) telling me they aren't rabidly fervid about something that I am? Never. Why don't I? Because I'm there to HELP them...not trash them and drive them away. And if you're making the effort to answer any questions at all on this or any other forum, then you're here to help others too. That coworker I mentioned...he punishes people for "disturbing" him. Interrupting his texting or net browsing or his slacking. The folks looking for answers have the audacity to respond to the sign that reads "service", whether it's printed on a poster or implied by the environment, and that pi$$es him off. I mean, what's a forum FOR but to find answers through discussion? NOW...if the prima-donnas don't mind...has anyone ever compiled a fairly complete list of some sort showing the relative usefullness/funtionality/attractivesness of different distros? Just tell me a website like the nice guy way back toward the front did for that ass 666 or whatever, and I'll go read it and leave you all to your battery acid lollipops. I'm all for learning the ins and outs on my own. I've always been a self-teacher. But I'm not for wasting two weeks weighing the pros and cons of how friendly Linus may or may not have been when the answer I need to be productive is right here. Thank you for you courteous response! 8)

paulfx1
paulfx1

"Basic courtesy goes a long way!" Not on my computer it doesn't. pfred1@spot:~$ please uname -a bash: please: command not found If you want to see someone in the Linux community who has a self admitted attitude problem search for some of Linus' quotes. He's a riot! "I'm a bastard. I have absolutely no clue why people can ever think otherwise. Yet they do. People think I'm a nice guy, and the fact is that I'm a scheming, conniving bastard who doesn't care for any hurt feelings or lost hours of work, if it just results in what I consider to be a better system." -- Linus Torvalds Now there is someone I could bend elbows with! Screw all you Windows lusers. I really don't care about any of you. Didums I hurt your little feelings? Awww....

paulfx1
paulfx1

All the 4.X KDE's I've tried I ended up using something else. Though I like KDE 3.5.X I'm using it on this system now in fact. KDE has always offered direct downloading of their software. Was how I first used it. Though I must admit it was a bit of a pain to build their stuff. I had to build it a piece at a time, in a specific order too. Apparently they've developed some kind of script to build it today. I might have to look into that for some of my machines. Because I really don't care for their latest version, but they still offer their http://www.kde.org/info/3.5.10.php older version.

paulfx1
paulfx1

By default Ubuntu has something on the order of 160 processes running. Which for me is a bit excessive. I took the time to lay up a custom system based on Debian and I can manage to be in an X Session with only about 40 or so processes running. So apparently Ubuntu could go on a bit of a system resource diet. Just because you can run a zillion processes doesn't mean you should.

tmy
tmy

Hello everyone, I love Linux and been using it for a long time, even though I would like to know the steps to download a program and then how to install the said program, for example you find a program you want and click on the link it sends you to a file you download it then thats the bit that gets confusing which bit to click on and how to make the program install can Linux not make it just double click install surley after all this time it can be done crack that bit and it will be happy days can someone on here be friendly and helpful and instruct me on how i can do this and why it is not simpler. I drive a car abut don't need to know how to rewire it or tighten the fan belt do you think that is a fair comment same thing with Linux we love it we really do hate Windows help us to help others to get away from Windows we just want simple solutions and methods for getting thinks done thank you in advance everyone.

paulfx1
paulfx1

For over 6 years on one system until I went up to it one day and the caps on the motherboard popped. So I quickly put together another system out of junk I had lying around, popped that HDD in, and it still ran! Can't really ask for more than that.

myangeldust
myangeldust

Hey, I have a copy of this on disc. I tried if for a while but it wasn't an improvement work-wise. However, I do use PCLinuxOS to go into PCs that have trouble loading Windows. It lets me get to user files so I can offload them before doing a system restore or Windows reinstallation.

tbmay
tbmay

There are too many Linux people trying to convince the world to use Linux. Linux...for that matter most open source....is primarily the domain of specific interests. That could be software written to solve specific problems, enthusiasts, whatever... The developers do not generally write the software with the intention of Grandma downloading it and using it as her primary desktop. I honestly will tell you most people are not ready to use a *nix OS other than Apple products at this point. I use a lot of *nix....but in server roles. There is an aweful lot of good open source server software. While *nix desktops tend to be stable, most people: a. Are completely used to doing things the Microsoft way. b. Can not replace their existing desktop software. So, you are right. You just have to understand what open source software is, and who develops it, and for what purpose most of it is developed. Do not listen to, "Dude, you should put Linux on your computer." That is BAD advice.

atch666
atch666

The main problem I see with linux is that there are no real quality programs comared to windows (AutoCAD, Photoshop, Visual Studio, Office etc), and by going to linux you will unfortunately work on software of much less quality and standards. That's I believe is too much of a compromise.

myangeldust
myangeldust

What do Windows users have to do with Ubuntu? Why not curse out Mac users? Do Linux cult members only come from Windows? You are behaving like a cult member.

NEDDOT
NEDDOT

In this discussion about desupport of KDE desktop environment for Ubuntu it is mentioned that Linux related support requests are poorly answered. However an important point that you will see everywhere for every software and every OS you will have to find the answers on your questions at the right support-counter/forum. Because there are so many Linux distributions there are also many,many support and discussion-forums, good or poorly moderated. It seems a mess in the Linux OS world - not something that the average windows PC user wants to be confronted with probably. When you see a discussion-forum with rtfm not being moderated then it has to be avoided imho. Such unprofessional attitude does not deserve any more of your own efforts - ignore is the best. I like the mixture of Apple OS X, Windows and Linux for productive usage because every one of them has something that the other has not completely right. Surely this involves lots of netsurfing, communicating, RTEM (Reading The Excellent Manuals) and be selective in this process. Nowadays with the mature virtualisation technologies such as xen, qemu, vmware or virtualbox you can even put them all on top of each other in the way that seems best for your budget, continuity, productivity, security and personal preference requirements . Happily it all has become easier and better with open source, linux, bsd developments and efforts from the redhat, the canonical/ubuntu, the gnu/debian, freebsd, mswindows, apple/os x,openbsd, sun/oracle, ibm and hp communities and many more. This example from 2004 shows beautifully how things can be managed differently than what normally is expected: http://architectafrica.com/bin0/news200411111_wine.html

noahspurrier
noahspurrier

Most of those are sleeping threads setup to respond to service requests. They take no resources, but they do make the process listing look busy and they are a frequent source of distraction to people thinking that their setup is somehow flawed or has gone crazy. The console-kit-daemon, gnome-keyring-daemon, and unity-2d-launcher are notorious sources of concern, but they are mostly harmless.

myangeldust
myangeldust

Linux is like a religion. There's the original followers of Linus then there's everyone else. All those who don't believe in the maker set out to create their own (better) version. But they never really veer far from the original, no matter how much they try. That is why installing a new program is still not as simple as double-clicking that mouse button.

paulfx1
paulfx1

Then you should know Linux isn't any simpler than it is because that would make it less effective. So don't come to Linux if you're looking for something simpler than Windows. That isn't what Linux is trying to be. We're happy with it just being better.

myangeldust
myangeldust

Once I install that stable, anti-virus free Ubuntu/KDE desktop on my parent's computers I will print them a copy of your comment so that they'll understand how the system works. Easypeasy.

ryu.c.keyz
ryu.c.keyz

You write like a professional, I can tell that. I agree with you that it takes too much work for most people. When people ask me why my desktop is so stable and I don't run antivirus, I tell them they're not ready for my desktop. I run Ubuntu linux with a KDE desktop. LibreOffice Microsoft-compatible office suite (Office 2000 interface, easy to use). Banshee and Juk for my music, works like clockwork. Updates perfectly smooth without my intervention. What people DON'T realize is that I actually have to understand the linux kernel (the core of the operating system), and that Linux is actually divided into three layers rather than two: 1) Kernel or core 2) Console or text apps 3) graphic apps. And I have to understand how they interact. If I knew how to program C++ and had the patience for it, I would contribute to fixing the problem. I also saw your post on customer service. "read the manpages" is not an appropriate response for somebody you're trying to help save money. I admit Linux is daunting, but it's like Android (a flavor of Linux). Once you choose whether you want the Android or Mac-like GNOME, or the Windows-like KDE, you just have to know how to keep things working. Often you don't touch the kernel or the console. Synaptic = install software on GNOME, PackageKit or Apper/Muon is for installing software on KDE. root = administrative user. Would it help the community if I wrote a book on Linux for Dummies?

tbmay
tbmay

...has disappeared yet. I might add the unix operating system was first in play in the late 60's. Linux itself has existed since the early 90's. The reason is the Linux religious zealots...the "dude, put linux on your computer" crowd....are not the ones developing it. I seriously doubt if it will ever be a common desktop. I also don't think that's going to be a bearing on it's existence. I use the heck out of it professionally, Putty'ed in to servers from a Win7 laptop. I do have Mint on a Desktop in my office, and I use Win7 in a VM. No, I don't recommend most people try to jump to Linux. It is not Windows. Stop listening to people who have made software a religion.

myangeldust
myangeldust

Like inside a car's cabin? In-car systems are proprietary to each auto manufacturer. If someone could create a customizable Linux-based system to sell to manufacturers -for less than what they spend to create their current systems- it could be a moneymaker. It's almost impossible to bend Mac and Windows to something so specific. While Linux with all its iterations seems to be perfect for this application. How often does Linux crash? What's the boot/reboot times? Can it run reliably on a flash drive setup inside a moving car? Currently, enthusiasts use media center style apps sitting on Windows to emulate this. It looks very DIY and the apps are mismatched (because they are). If the OS can be bent to car installations with specific apps (GPS, telephony, entertainment, surveillance, OBD-II, etc) included in the OS, like Apple's iWorks, it might be what folks have been wanting.

atch666
atch666

I think it would be fair to say that main domain of linux is server "side". You see my original (and current) point, wasn't/is to slag or flame anyone. I just from my personal experience know that linux - 1. isn't for desktop apps, 2. community of it is "RTFM" oriented. And I don't say all of you. But in general that's the vibe one gets unfortunately. And that is sad, because this will eventually mean that either linux will completely disappear or will be used by very small group of enthusiasts. This is bad, bad for everyone - for linux users, and for windows users.

paulfx1
paulfx1

So the less I'm running the more responsive my systems are.

paulfx1
paulfx1

Then again Windows is like a religion, Mac is like a religion, BSD is like a religion. None of them actually are religions though. I'm pretty sure all of the major distributors start out with Linus' code base then add their own patches. I'll often install vanilla kernel source trees into my systems though. Does that make me a follower of Linus? I set my desktop up so a single click executes objects. I find double clicking too spastic an activity for my tastes. Using Synaptic it still takes me two clicks to install a software package though. one click to check the corresponding checkbox, then another click on the Install button. I'm not sure if I'd want a single click install. What if I select something by accident? But seriously installing software in Linux couldn't be easier than it is today. Double clicking sucks!

az_nemesis
az_nemesis

too many people treat it exactly like a religion. Nothing like lack of perspective, I guess.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

Flame wars, not so much. Hint. Hint.

paulfx1
paulfx1

No this guy said it "UNIX was not designed to stop its users from doing stupid things, as that would also stop them from doing clever things." ??? Doug Gwyn Now you just keep on telling all of your clients how bad Linux is so when they learn the truth they come to realize what a low down scum sucking POS you really are! You can only fool all of the people some of the time you know? I guess you're banking on the few you can fool all of the time huh? Good luck to you.

myangeldust
myangeldust

So you're saying that for it to be "effective" at whatever it needs to be difficult to use. It probably works better in your D&D group where you don't want more people to join - at least not the shiny happy people. All those variations of Linux and no one as figured a way to make it easy to install something new. And we're supposed to root for this because...?

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