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Poll: Does C++ 2011 renew your interest in native apps?

April 5, 2011, 8:40 AM PDT

Takeaway: The next version of C++, which is currently called C++ 2011, will likely be out by the end of the year. Developer Justin James asks: Do you think it’s time to give native apps another shot?

It seems like fewer and fewer developers write applications in native code, for a variety of reasons. The next version of C++ looks to be finalized before the end of this year and to be called C++ 2011. With a new version of C++ coming out, do you feel like maybe it is time to give native apps another shot? Take the poll, and then discuss your answer.

Does C++ 2011 renew your interest in native apps?

J.Ja

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About Justin James

Justin James is the Lead Architect for Conigent.

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3 Votes

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Having clarity of code while maintaining efficiency

Mark Miller Updated - 6th Apr 2011

I've head Alan Kay talk about "separating meaning from implementation," and that it was found a few decades ago that this could be done. Here's a quote from an article where he talks about this:

Another key idea here is to separate meaning from tactics. E.g. the meaning of sorting is much simpler and more compact than the dozens of most useful sorting algorithms, each one of which uses different strategies and tactics to achieve the same goal. If the "meanings" of a program could be given in a way that the system could run them as programs, then a very large part of the difficulties of program design would be solved in a very compact fashion. The resulting "meaning code" would constitute a debuggable, runnable specification that allows practical testing. If we can then annotate the meanings with optimizations and keep them separate, then we have also created a much more controllable practical system. This is critical since many optimizations are accomplished by violating (hopefully safely) module boundaries; it is disastrous to incorporate optimizations into the main body of code. The separation allows the optimizations to be checked against the meanings.

Edit: Didn't realize when I posted the excerpt that the double-quotes from the article were translated to "???" here. I fixed that.

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3 Votes

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C and C++ are low level languages

Jaqui 8th Apr 2011

specially compared to the current crop of languages.

the fact they are just a small step away from assembly/machine code is what makes them so incredibly powerful, versatile and dangerous.

I would hate to let a Java/.NET/VB only developer touch any C/C++ project, they would hoop the entire system more often than not simply because they don't grasp the inherent danger of languages that can control [ DESTROY ] hardware directly.

but the reverse can also be true. just because someone is good with the low level languages does not mean they can work with the higher level languages as well as they do the lower level languages.

and people forget, the CLOSER to direct control of hardware, the lower the level you are working, and the HIGHER the skill required.
Though we do tend to think of it inverted, and the closer to direct interaction with the hardware is seen as a much higher level of operating. Probably because of the far higher level of skill and knowledge required to do so without screwing the system over.

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3 Votes

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Learning to use the tools is what separates hacker from day-job programmer

nwallette 6th Apr 2011

(Hacker in the white-hat tech enthusiast sense.)

People who enjoy programming, and are passionate about doing it "right" will use native code when it makes sense, interpreted code when the complexity outweighs the performance penalty, scripted languages when something just needs to get done despite the lack of eloquence, and mod_perl or PHP for dynamic websites. :-D

OK, OK... maaaaybe also Python. If you're not into whitespace.

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1 Vote

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Tut, context is everything matey

Tony Hopkinson Updated - 15th Apr 2011

compared to native code written by some one who's knows what they are doing, and quite possibly without the overhead of OO, java , .net , straight intepreted code can be outperformed.

How valuable that is, is up for debate, whether is not.
Byte code to native or text/token to native guarantees that...

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1 Vote

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You are right, and it is 1999

terjeb@... 15th Apr 2011

>> any java app is a perfect example of poor performance

Really? Seriously? You think this is still the case? Time to get back into the time-machine and come back to 2011. 1999 is a long time ago.

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1 Vote

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If you are looking at an issue like that in a framework

Tony Hopkinson 11th Apr 2011

you missed lesson one on optimisation.

They are either messing about, or they are incompetent.

I was thinking more use of arrays / lists instead of switch or if
Dictionary or sorted list instead of Find on a List
Caching
The stringbuilder class...

Lots of things you can do in frameworks if you learn them instead of trying to revert to machine code in desperate attempt to save one clock cycle per hour...

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