Software Development

A developer's hands-on review of Delphi 2010

According to Justin James, .NET and Visual C++ developers should check out Embarcadero's Delphi 2010 -- as long as they don't mind learning a new system, a new language, and a new way of doing things.

 

Embarcadero Technologies recently released Delphi 2010. Embarcadero provided me with a review copy of Delphi 2010 and, after a bit of experimentation on my own, I spent some time with Embarcadero's Mike Rozlog, who took me on a whirlwind tour of the feature set. Overall, I like what I saw.

Feature set

I loved Delphi version 1 when I first used it nearly 15 years ago -- perhaps it was because Pascal was the first language I used that I really liked. Sitting down with Delphi 2010, the old memory banks fired up, and after about 15 minutes, I remembered enough Pascal to hobble along. What really struck me about the Delphi system is that as an IDE it is extraordinarily productive. Its feature set felt very much like Visual Studio 2008 with ReSharper added on top, which is a great experience.

IDE Insight Even better, the good folks at Embarcadero came up with a brilliant idea called IDE Insight. It is like IntelliSense (or the Windows Start Menu search system) is applied to the entire IDE. Just press [F6] and start typing what you want to do, and a list of choices comes up and gets narrower as you type. For example, if you're editing a form, press [F6] and start typing TButton, and you will see the TButton class appear in the list. If you hit [Enter], then bang! a new button gets dropped onto your form. Want to add a new form to your project? Press [F6] again and type TForm as the text (Figure A). In a code editor, you can do all sorts of cool things with IDE Insight. For example, [F6] + for will drop a for loop right in (Figure B). I know this sounds like such a minor item, but it really does speed things up. Developers who prefer to not take their hands off of the keyboard will really appreciate the keyboard-driven productivity of IDE Insight. Figure A

Using IDE Insight to create a form Figure B

Using IDE Insight to start a for loop
DataSnap Another item that I really like is DataSnap, which is similar to WCF in concept, but in execution, it feels much smoother. WCF (as of this time) still requires an awful lot of manual plumbing; DataSnap is a more mature technology with the tools in place to rapidly create a service or a consumer. DataSnap feels much more polished than WCF and produces JSON output, which means that non-Delphi sources can consume it as well. (Figure C) Figure C

Creating a new DataSnap Server
Support

Delphi 2010 supports all sorts of new goodies, including multi-touch and gestures. By beating Visual Studio 2010 to market by nearly six months (assuming Microsoft hits its March 22, 2010 RTM for Visual Studio 2010), Delphi developers get the chance to be first to market with apps that use the "latest and greatest." This is great news for developers targeting kiosks, tablet PCs, and other scenarios that use touch interfaces. The touch system is designed to degrade gracefully on operating systems that do not support it, too.

Debugging Delphi 2010 has good tools for debugging multithreaded applications, which is an increasingly important item; it shows each running thread and provides the ability to freeze and thaw each thread, as well as view the source for a thread and switch to a thread in debug mode. (Figure D) Figure D

Importing a WSDL with Delphi 2010
Web development

I found Web development in Delphi 2010 to be a touch frustrating on my Windows 7 machine. Windows 7 applies a strict permissions model to IIS, and the IIS 7.X management tool makes you work a bit too hard to do what needs to be done to make a Delphi Web app run (Embarcadero uses the CGI model). Once I jumped through the hurdles, it made sense. I feel confident that these difficulties will be resolved soon; Mike took copious notes while I walked him through how I solved the problem.

Comparisons

I'm sure that a lot of readers are probably looking for a comparison to other IDEs. Comparisons are tempting, but there is also a huge danger when comparing, say, Visual Studio 2008 to Delphi 2010, which is confusing the languages, the libraries, and the IDEs. So, I'll be as precise and specific as I can.

When I was evaluating Delphi 2010, there was never a point when I wondered why such-and-such feature was omitted. And as already mentioned, the IDE Insight system blew my mind. Even other Delphi developers are going to take some time getting used to it; watching Mike do his demo, he kept forgetting about it. But as I followed along, I found myself constantly waiting for him to catch up because I was using it and he was not. For someone in a heads-down mode, IDE Insight rocks.

When I was comparing Delphi 2010 to Visual Studio 2008, I found a massive difference of opinion regarding development. Delphi is a tool for writing native applications, and as a result, you are expected to work with native APIs. .NET development encapsulates most of the functionality of the Windows API (and other native APIs like GDI+) into the massive .NET Framework, providing easy access and consistency.

If you really like low-level access to the system and a "nothing but what I specify" approach to what ends up being compiled into your code, you will love Delphi's attitude; but if you do not feel comfortable with the native APIs, you will probably be frustrated by Delphi.

I admit that I have become very, very spoiled by the .NET Framework, and it was a tough transition for me to work on even a simple application in Delphi because so much of what I expect to be in the standard library wasn't there. But if I were a C++ or a VB6 developer, I would feel right at home. This is not a criticism of Delphi in the slightest; some people love working like this, and it is merely a matter of personal opinion.

Pascal

The other thing that struck me is that the Pascal language that I loved years ago felt very strange to me. When I first learned Pascal, I was coming from COBOL and BASIC, and Pascal felt very fluid and smooth. But now, Pascal feels a bit odd to me, like having to declare function prototypes before actually implementing the function. Again, this is 100% a matter of opinion, and there is nothing to criticize or applaud here. But be aware, you probably are not going to be able to just pick up a demo copy of Delphi 2010 coming from a VB.NET, C#, or Java background, play around with it for a few hours, and feel comfortable or be terribly effective. That said, you can't exactly go from Java and Eclipse to C# and Visual Studio and be effective either, despite the surface similarities between language syntaxes and frameworks.

Summary

If you want to do Windows development, and you want to work with native code in a native style, I think that Delphi 2010 is a very productive tool. It combines a lot that really saves time (such as DataSnap and IDE Insight) with the power and flexibility of native code. If you need support for certain functionality (especially touch-related items), it is the only shipping product on the market that does these things.

Every time I work with the Embarcadero team, I feel like they are writing the tools that they would love to use; they really are "developers' developers," and they understand the development process very well and implement it as tools quite nicely.

If you don't mind learning a new system, a new language, and a new way of doing things, Delphi 2010 is worth a long look for .NET and Visual C++ developers.

J.Ja

Disclosure of Justin's industry affiliations: Justin James has a contract with Spiceworks to write product buying guides. He is also under contract to OpenAmplify, which is owned by Hapax, to write a series of blogs, tutorials, and other articles.

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About

Justin James is the Lead Architect for Conigent.

51 comments
ponjet
ponjet

It's always a pleasure to see my favorite development tool (Delphi) still very much in the game. I've always liked Delphi since I had my first chance of using it late 90's as introduced to me by an Australian friend here in Manila (Philippines). Loved everything about it -- the language, the blazing fast performance, the development cycle, the community, the 3rd party and component market. Been involving myself in .NET development the past few projects because I feel it's the in-thing and what the market demands but I'd be more than happy to go back to my Delphi roots anytime especially now that they have an updated tool sets. Kudos to the Embarcadero team and Delphi community for keeping the Delphi spirits alive!

Arron Smith
Arron Smith

It combines a lot that really saves time (such as DataSnap and IDE Insight) with the power and flexibility of native code. ruby on rails developer

OrigDelphiGuy
OrigDelphiGuy

How quickly folks forget. The article (while complimentory) makes it sound like Delphi is something newer as comparing it to .NET. Let's not forget that Microsoft COPIED Delphi to make C# (and Java to make .NET VM after a falling out with Sun). As is Microsoft's typical method of "inventing." They hired the guy who wrote Delphi 1 and he lead the team that created C#. You can see the similarities in virtual method behavior. More like Delphi, less like Java. Then they used their resources to take the market from Delphi. That being said, Delphi is not very relevant anymore at this point because of .NET's marketshare. However, Delphi is still the hands down best mousetrap for WinForms development. Not so much with other stuff. And WinForms may or may not be going away. It is hard to say and Microsoft won't give a straight answer to that question.

programmeroo
programmeroo

Delphi? Why would we do this to ourselves? Just so young programmers can learn Pascal? I'm not too impressed with Chevy's return of the '69 Camaro either... Does anyone else see the connection between this an Jason's last Blog?

jolyon.smith
jolyon.smith

"Delphi is a tool for writing native applications, and as a result, you are expected to work with native APIs. .NET development encapsulates most of the functionality of the Windows API (and other native APIs like GDI+) into the massive .NET Framework, providing easy access and consistency." The VCL also encapsulates most of the functionality of the Windows API. The difference with a tool written for native development is that when you *need* to drop down to the API it is actually very easy to do so because the VCL encapsulation doesn't lose sight of the fact that it *is* just an encapsulation. .NET on the other hand expects you to do everything in Framework code, and when you can it's great, but when (not if) it runs out of steam then it is disproportionately more difficult to achieve what you want/need. w.r.t Web Development, it's a little misrepresentative to say that "Embarcadero uses CGI". You presumably did not look at the "VCL for the Web" framework (also known as "IntraWeb" - which makes implementing AJAX style web apps virtually indistinguishable (in terms of the development process) from developing desktop applications and almost as straightforward, and doesn't involve IIS at all.

Chas4
Chas4

A very nice review. I currently use Delphi 2007 and love the way it just works. I also develop in VS2008 and am getting used to the .NET way of doing things. Both IDEs have their place in my tool set. I am glad that Embarcadero is keeping Delphi up-to-date.

surfbored
surfbored

I'm still using Delphi 2005 (along with Visual Studio), but if my boss would pay for Delphi 2010, I'd go to it in a heartbeat.

Justin James
Justin James

Is Delphi 2010 something that you would try out? Are you looking to break away from Java or .NET, or upgrading from a previous version? J.Ja

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

they certainly did poach Borland (Inprise Morons Inc..) tools people. If it was just a copy, why did Delphi.net take so long and why was such a complete cock up. Which feeble minded idiot decided to rewrite the IDE in C++... Why did they rush to market with shoddy garbage like D2005? Microsoft didn't have to kill Delphi, it's owners did that for them. Win32 no argument, not many people doing new stuff with that though now. Another Original Delphi Guy, still am when I can't get the resource to port more code into C#.

Justin James
Justin James

As a college student, I paid $99 of my hard earned money for an academic copy of Delphi 1, I may still have the disk somewhere. I liked Delphi enough to pay for it as a broke college kid, that's a statement. I tried to take a "fresh look" approach in the article so that people wouldn't think of it as, "oh, Delphi, that old outdated system". J.Ja

Justin James
Justin James

Pascal has a lot of advantages. It's native code, which means it runs faster than .NET or Java. As others have pointed out, it's much easier to work with the native APIs when the Delphi framework (the VCL) doesn't have what you need. It's also easier to consume DLLs than it is in .NET for the same reason. It's more flexible in Web development, because you aren't tied to IIS or any other particular Web server. Working in Pascal is a LOT safer than C or C++, too. That being said, there are some tradeoffs. Pascal has that ALGOL legacy, stuff like the "interface" block and "implementation" block, which feels like a hassle to a lot of folks. Some folks might not feel comfortable working at that level, particularly if they are used to managed languages or dynamic languages. And some folks will miss the raw power of C or C++. In other words, "your milage will vary". All the same, I don't think Pascal is a hopelessly outdated langauge. In fact, I have *never* come across a hopelessly outdated language! They all have their uses, pros, and cons. Think of them as tools, the right one for the right time. I have an electric screwdriver, but I still use my hand screwdriver all the time. :) J.Ja

BruceMcGee
BruceMcGee

> Delphi? Why would we do this to ourselves? Just so young programmers can learn Pascal? > I'm not too impressed with Chevy's return of the '69 Camaro either... This isn't a "return". Pascal never went away.. Instead, it's been evolving. In addition to enhancements to the IDE and the VCL, there have been a lot of improvements in the language itself.

masonwheeler
masonwheeler

Using Delphi and understanding Pascal makes you a more productive coder, and less likely to blunder into the minefield of common errors that the C family is so famous for. You say "just so young programmers can learn Pascal" like there's something wrong with it. I think that's an admirable goal. If more young programmers were learning Pascal, I'd have to put up with a lot less bug-ridden crap masquerading as real software on my computer.

aideeaidee
aideeaidee

What should they learn? Java? C#? Cobol, Fortan, Lisp, Prolog, Ada? PHP, Perl, Python? What's wrong with pascal? Why do real programmers care in what language one should build? It never stopped me. Being honest, I feel real comfortabel within Delphi as I do in C#.

aideeaidee
aideeaidee

Agreed on that. And in addition to create web apps (webserver services etc.) you are not bound by CGI, but can create ISAPI apps too. They run well on both Apache as IIS. I prefer apache by the way, Its a burdon to get ISAPI's run well on IIS due to complicated setup's, but that has nothing to do with Delphi.

Justin James
Justin James

Not much, if you ask me. The app I was writing was a desktop app to work with the Event Log, and I discovered that there was nothing baked into the system for that; everything I read on the Web site about working with Event Log involved the registry and/or API calls. I would have to say that working with Event Log is common enough that not wrapping it in VCL is a sign. That being said, dropping down to API calls in Delphi is MUCH nicer than in .NET as you point out. Regarding the comments on the Web development... I can't speak for "IntraWeb", but I can tell you that creating a Web app in Delphi uses the CGI model. And I mean that very, very specifically. It creates an EXE, and the web server hands off the HTTP connection to that EXE as a pair of data streams, one for reading the browser request, and one for responding to it. So yes, it does indeed follow a CGI model. J.Ja

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Hardly surprising, best you can say about it, is it was less flakey than Delphi 8. Me too, by the way, with VS2008, a somewhat better product.

benjnunez
benjnunez

I've been an advocate of Delphi before, here in Manila. I have skills in Delphi. But to my dismay, there are only a handful of companies here that uses it. This forced me to upgrade my skill set to .NET. I'm currently using C#. But if ever I want to do Win32 programming, I would definitely use Delphi or even C++Builder rather than VB6/Visual C++.

jck
jck

RAD Studio ;-) I'm gonna be programming Delphi again for the first time since 1994. lol

aikimark
aikimark

The VCL/RTL libraries wrap the Windows APIs. To make the transition to .Net easier, there are .Net-equivalent wrapping libraries to minimize the amount of code changes.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

I view every line of delphi code I still have to write as a miserable failure in windows. Delphi has been a joke in poor taste since version 7, up to then, it was the best option, then Borland or Inprise are WTF they called themselves f'ed it.

tkofford
tkofford

I started using Delphi 1 when it came out and was a Delphi programmer for a number of years before switching to java web development. I really miss developing in Delphi. I'm glad that Delphi is still alive! Prior to reading this article, I'd occasionally look over on sourceforge.net to see if Delphi had been released as open source. ;-)

sirl
sirl

Turbo Pascal was a breakthrough in development technology. As mentionned by Justin James, using the System API was a cinch and writing Pascal statements, a pure pleasure. Nowadays, the .NET Framework fills all my needs for developing sound applications in C#. Do I miss Pascal? Yes.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

you can do in C/C++ that you can't in pascal. Delphi vs C#. (Discounting .net vs win32, and managed vs self-managed). Overall, not a heck of a lot of difference, as far as I can see, certainly the initial switch and the back and forth I do now. Probably the single biggets hit is variable declaration, as type and name are reversed, or is that name and type, hmmm....

jck
jck

I have to disagree. You ever write PL/0? :^0

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

'New' features aren't and old ones are, but very poorly in places. Wrapped wouldn't have been a major problem, wrapped and then 'improved' effectively third party components, schoolboy error.

jolyon.smith
jolyon.smith

The VCL "in the box" certainly doesn't cover 100% of all Windows API technologies, but then neither does the .NET framework. But in addition to the VCL "in the box" there are things like JEDI (free, open source and which has an encapsulation of the event log) and numerous other sources which provide VCL encapsulations of many additional areas in the Windows API not provided "in the box". JEDI in particular is so much a part of the Delphi community infrastructure that these days it should almost be considered part of the product. Similarly the Indy VCL sockets implementation (which technically *has* become part of the product but also continues to exist independently outside of Delphi itself). It's also worth mentioning that the VCL comes with 100% source code, and yes it is possible to modify and recompile it if necessary. And you are still missing the point w.r.t Web development. IntraWeb is PART OF DELPHI - in the Delphi IDE it is referred to as "VCL For the Web". When you create a VCL For The Web application you have the choice of producing an ISAPI DLL, a standalone app or a standalone service - those latter two options are self contained web servers, no IIS. And even without using VCL For The Web, when you create a web application or a SOAP server you are given the *CHOICE* of using CGI or creating an ISAPI/NSAPI DLL. And I mean that very, very specifically the first page of the "New Web Application" wizard requires *you* to make that choice.

jolyon.smith
jolyon.smith

The VCL "in the box" certainly doesn't cover 100% of all Windows API technologies, but then neither does the .NET framework. But in addition to the VCL "in the box" there are things like JEDI (free, open source and which has an encapsulation of the event log) and numerous other sources which provide VCL encapsulations of many additional areas in the Windows API not provided "in the box". JEDI in particular is so much a part of the Delphi community infrastructure that these days it should almost be considered part of the product. Similarly the Indy VCL sockets implementation (which technically *has* become part of the product but also continues to exist independently outside of Delphi itself). It's also worth mentioning that the VCL comes with 100% source code, and yes it is possible to modify and recompile it if necessary.

Justin James
Justin James

Have fun with that! Would love to hear about your experiences using it in-depth in a production environment. J.Ja

WoWSupport
WoWSupport

Well, I think that with D2007, D2009 and especially with D2010 one can be way more productive than with other tools when it comes about Windows programming. And let us not forget that native executables are smaller and significantly faster than .NET ones (also, no hassle of big runtimes etc.). Perhaps you have the bitter feeling of D8-D2005. See http://wings-of-wind.com/category/rad-studio-2010-reviews/ (reposted)

aideeaidee
aideeaidee

I agee that there has been a period where I feared the most of the future for Delphi. After D7 it never feeled right again. But since 2007 it is back on track, and certainly not a joke. Time will tell....

salinaspaul
salinaspaul

I, too, miss Pascal! I found hints of Pascal-isms in C#, so I gravitated towards that. I am a 99% VB.NET developer now, and I am also glad that the spirit of Pascal lives on it Delphi. As a matter of fact, my OCD dictates that I *have* to put my VB function and sub definitions before their calls - it just feels natural to me to do it like that! I can't stand to leave a program otherwise!

Justin James
Justin James

... if *too much* gets wrapped, folks are free to ignore it, and much more easily than in .NET, where working with the APIs is rough. I did indeed check out JEDI, you are right that it feels like "the missing libraries". That being said, it's Event Log component was not very good; creating a new log still required making entries to the Registry. That's one of the "I've been spoiled by .NET moments", I never learned that skill of figuring out where stuff lives in the Registry. I spent the VB/COM years in Perl, for better or for worse! J.Ja

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Best I can say about it is, It only falls over a minimum of once a day. Theres some absolute classics in it. But My favoutite, is having several fly by code hint windows at the same time. And yes that's after the patches. Official and otherwise. "We will fix it in the next version... that will be 1400 quid". No sale!

jck
jck

Boss only paid for a key to one builder, not the studio. When they gave me the key, I thought it was for the whole suite. So, no Delphi for me as I thought. More disappointment. I might just go home early.

Justin James
Justin James

I had no problem installing it, with an installer from about 1 - 2 months ago, I think. J.Ja

jck
jck

I loaded the studio, and there are no Delphi projects you can build. I went to their website, and it said the installer should let you install C++, Delphi, or both. i'm trying to get the new installer from their support site right now, but our internal network connection to the fibre isn't working real well. In fact, I'm about to get pissed off about it. Been this way since 7:45 when I got here.

masonwheeler
masonwheeler

I work at a Delphi shop. Our main product is a behemoth enterprise app (~3.5M lines of code for the client, plus a handful of middle-tier servers) for managing TV stations. It's the industry leader in our particular niche, and we manage to maintain it and continue to innovate and progress with a surprisingly small team. Oh, and the whole thing builds in under 3 minutes. Let's see any other language do that!

jck
jck

We're not natively a MS house, and like I said...been YEARS since I did Delphi/Gupta SQLWindows/Object Pascal. But, I am gonna take a look at it and see what is possible with it. I'm hoping I can push the C compiler to use the C coding for a mobile computer I'm programming for in VB.NET right now. Even though I am more familiar by far with VB/VB.NET (after 10 years of programming it?), I would love to get into something less...Microsofty...ya know? I have been looking for that tool I could write with on MS platforms without having MS's motives, incentives, ads, logos and everything pushed at me with every Alt-Tab. And knowing that Delphi was as good as it was back in the day, I want to see what this thing can do. If it ends up being really useful, we might make it the standard for our operations here and do all our in-house development using it. I will try and keep you informed. I am in the middle right now of screenshotting a huge MS Access database app for a presentation, as well as doing research on barcode-reading, wireless communicating mobile devices and how to program them. Life's never boring when you're a busy programmer. :^0

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

made five + years ago. As for speed, well if that's the prime requirement you wouldn't be using .net anyway, may be a mix of managed / unmanaged, if you were feeling a bit brave. When the decision was made, about the time that atrocious piece of garbage Delphi 8 came out, nobody with two brain cells in close proximity would have argued agaisnt it. Reversing it now, how could you possibly justify it?

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

condemned to repeat it. Quick job search, last seven days Delphi 38, C# 1308 VB.Net 278. Do the above tech and developer as the role. Delphi goes down to 2. mention Prism, exactly one role. Not definitive of course, but the ratios are interesting. So limited value to me and an employer. One of the main reasons my current employer with the wholehearted support of it's developers, shifted to C# was a much larger pool of available opportunities for us and them. You are wasting your time selling it to me, you need to sell it to those who could/would employ me. I am not even going to try myself, can't think of a single compelling business argument to do so.

BruceMcGee
BruceMcGee

As already stated, Borland is now out of the picture, and CodeGear/Embarcadero have been doing a good job. Both on native Delphi and Delphi Prism. As for Delphi Prism being behind because Microsoft won't let it get ahead, that sounds a little tin foil hat to me. If you really want features, go to the Delphi home page, look at the replay videos from the online CodeRage conference or look at Delphi related questions on Stack Overflow. You might be surprised how far they've come.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

and then offered me a chance to buy the next version at the full price. Don't know about you but, that's a rip off in my book. As for name changes, calling a turd faeces, doesn't make it smell any better.

aideeaidee
aideeaidee

This is an odd discussion. Borland doesn't excists any more. Embarcadero is actually doing fine. 2005 was a bad product, yes. But a ripp-off? Loads of samples then, even on the M$ field.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

it's always going to be behind. If Prism starts taking market share off VS, they'll either pull a fast one, or do an end run with pascal.net. Borland ripped me off once, it isn;t happening again. Give me Prism in as an apology for 2005, may be I'll spend some of my valuable time looking at. What features, enough for me to convince a bean counter or three, a CIO, and revamp the entire multi-national corporate development strategy. May be not eh?

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Haven't bothered looking since I got lumbered with that pile of crap and then offered the chance to get something not full of school boy errors for another 1400. Can't think of a single reason why I should either, 1100 reasons, not a f'ing chance.

WoWSupport
WoWSupport

"Delphi.NET is constantly and sadly out of date." Which was the last version of Delphi which you saw? C# has aspect programming? Futures? It seems that Prism (the Delphi's .NET variant) is ahead of the pack in some areas...

aideeaidee
aideeaidee

Didn't say that it was going 'big' in NL, actually I don't know. If your people couln't tell the difference between try-finally and try-except than I don't think that they would cope in c# or java either ;-) Point is that Delphi had lost it's trail since D7 which did not do the tool any good. But since 2007 they are back on track and I see increasing interest. Prism is nice, I use it since the early days (Remobjects Chrome) for my .Net development. But honestly: my customers don't ask for .Net, they ask for a working app, fast and with limited costs. So far I managed to have a bigger productivity with Delphi then Delphi for Prism (although I like the latest very much also).

BruceMcGee
BruceMcGee

> Delphi.NET is constantly and sadly out of date. Sounds like you haven't looked at Delphi for .Net (now called Delphi Prism) recently. It's completely up to date and even has some features that you can't find in C# or VB.Net. http://embarcadero.com/products/delphi-prism

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

No junior to intermediate devlopers have it. Of those available seniors who claim they do, most are lying their arse off. I had three who couldn't tell me the difference between Try Finally and Try except ffs. Must have been VB6 guys really... Because it's a less valued skill, remuneration is poor, compared to say .net or Java. It's constantly at the mercy of MS, who have absolutely no ineterest whatsoever in not knackering it. Delphi.NET is constantly and sadly out of date. Saying that if it's going big in the Netherlands, I could easily be tempted to going back, had a great two years over there, doing Delphi 5. Douie :p

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