Software Development

Poll: What do you think of Visual Studio 2010 and .NET 4?

With Visual Studio 2010 and .NET 4, blogger Justin James feels that the platform and development tools are 100% aligned. What do you think of the new tools?

In my opinion, Visual Studio 2010 and .NET 4 are the first time since Visual Studio 2005 and .NET 2.0 that I feel that the platform and development tools are 100% aligned. Visual Studio 2008 was good, but it had poor support for a lot of .NET 3.X technologies, and there were so many interim items released without the appropriate took upgrades.

I'm very impressed with the overall combination of technologies and tools and the overall improvements to Visual Studio. What do you think of the new tools?

J.Ja

About

Justin James is the Lead Architect for Conigent.

46 comments
kalpanalib
kalpanalib

They are excellent, both combined co many technologies to have real live platform

ttsendil
ttsendil

When expectations are more disappoinments are likely. Unlike VS2008, I hope it has significant improvement but too early to comment without experimenting all its features. So far i find it good!

rob
rob

I dislike anything microsoft.

n.gurr
n.gurr

I have to admit some of their past positions and practices were unpleasant and anti-competitive. However they make some cracking programs. While OO makes great strides it still is not a shade on Office and I feel the same about Linux.... I love it but it just isn't as polished and seamless as Win 7 (although more so than older versions - I run Win 7 and Mint depending on which machine and enjoy Mint more btw.)

john
john

I took a little time the day it was RTM and the first thing that jumped out at me were the auto-completion, which is great. The second thing that jumped out was that it still does not support edit-and-continue with 64-bit applications. I mean really! Does Microsoft want to support the move to 64-bit? I also have complaints with the auto-formatting in VB.Net but I can live with that. I just really wish Microsoft would get on with fully supporting x64 app development.

wlportwashington
wlportwashington

I wish I could give you an honest answer, but they are way too pricey for our company to purchase. If Microsoft made some real serious price cuts then it would be another matter.

Logos-Systems
Logos-Systems

I agree with you about Microsoft's pricing. But if the Professional Versions or above are too pricey you can always use the Express Version!

Justin James
Justin James

Try the Express Editions, they are free. :) J.Ja

herlizness
herlizness

I think Microsoft is making a mistake in their pricing structure on Visual Studio; the Professional Edition is probably within reach of most developers if perhaps a bit of a stretch for some. However, the Ultimate Edition is pretty well out of the question for all but those with some kind of corporate or institutional backing for the purchase. While that doesn't keep anyone from developing software, it does keep a lot of people away from gaining experience with a significant array of dev tools which no doubt will appear as "must haves" in a lot of job orders. I can't see how this is anyone's interest.

twainiqolo
twainiqolo

I totally agree with you herlizness.

Justin James
Justin James

I have a BizSpark membership, it gave me VSU. I know that the MSDN's for partners do not include VSU, just VSP, which is a bit odd. I highly doubt that *anyone*'s experience level with VSU vs. VSP or even VS Express will impact their employability one whit. There is no need for an individual to be buying VSU with their own funds. VSU includes a range of tools which would be *much* more expensive to purchase seperately from other vendors. That being said, the majority of developers do not need, use, or want most of them. The real issue is that a few really key pieces that *everyone* can use (notably IntelliTrace) are only in VSU. If you are willing to forego IntelliTrace, you can save about $6k by going with Premium. As much as I like IntelliTrace, it isn't worth $6k in my mind. Then again, if you compare it to something like BMC's AppSight, paying a $6k upcharge for IntelliTrace is a bargain. :( Like I said, VSU is expensive, but with the exception of IntelliTrace, if you are actually going to use all of the things it has over Premium or Professional, it is a great deal compared to buying the same tools elsewhere. Overall, the cost of Visual Studio is an *excellent* incentive to become a Microsoft Partner, that's for sure. J.Ja

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

If I saw a job with that as a required skill, I'd be very wary. That's like advertising for an author and saying must have Word... There's some really nice stuff in VSU, and I do use it at work, can't imagine needing most of it as an independant though. I mean even if I could have afforded it, TFS2010, blade rack for deployment testing, even developing in multiple languages, csn't see me getting paid for it if I had it on hand. I use express for personal use, does the job just fine, and using that I know how VS is put together. If someone said that wasn't good enough, I'd simply assume they were incompetent. It's a hefty price, I'll admit, but there again something like Delphi wasn't exactly cheap either....

herlizness
herlizness

you're out of touch on this one, Justin; but, let's be clear, I emphatically did not say the tools were not valuable .. quite the opposite VS Ultimate doesn't just "look" expensive, it IS expensive, and not just to hobbyists. It's expensive to the millions of

Justin James
Justin James

The fact is, if you give VS 2010 Ultimate to people in certain job roles, it will pay for itself quickly. For example, it now has the UML stuff, so folks can consider leaving the Rational tools (which cost an arm and a leg). IntelliTrace could easily save enough time for a developer (especially for crash dump analysis, which is extremely painful without it!) that it is showing ROI on that one feature along for many devs. Does it look expensive? Sure. But it's not much more expensive that many other tools in its category. And many levels of MSDN (including BizSpark) get it for free. Do I wish it was cheaper? Yes. At the same time, with the exception of lone developers (particularly hobbyists) on their nights/weekends, I have to question the viability of a business that can't afford to spend a thousand to a few thousand dollars on a valuable tool, especially one that can pay for itself quickly in many cases. J.Ja

martrum
martrum

There are still issues with Serial port coding so VB6 remains the most stable version for real programming.

Logos-Systems
Logos-Systems

What Serial Port problems can be solved using VB6, rather than .NET 4.0 and C#? Just finished a major Serial Port API for a project and I had no problems what so ever.

jose.a.nunez
jose.a.nunez

From an IDE standpoint it's still not better than Netbeans in some key features. I see VS2010 inherited some from them. What I really dislike is VS2010 crashing every time I lock my windows session for more than 1 minute. I just can't go for a cup of coffee without needing to reboot VS2010.

bbasel
bbasel

We skipped over VS2008 because I did not see a huge benefit to my web development team. From the first looks at VS2010 at DevCon two years ago it was apparent that VS2010 was bringing web development back to the web developers. Until now it was more of a Windows development platform with web capabilities.

Rob C
Rob C

Long Live VB6

mark
mark

Microsoft also think you are right otherwise they would have stopped adapting their OS-ses so we can keep using it. Mark

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Long lived VB6? Mind you I suspect it's going to be the cobol of the PC world, heck of a lot of code out there.

xmetal
xmetal

I still go back to 6 to do ActiveX. Just seems far easier there.

abiemann
abiemann

I am currently updating a very important tool in VC++ 6.0 The day I can at least use VS 2008 at work will be cause for celebration and an expensive lunch.

gcomputeronet
gcomputeronet

Sorry, couldn't resist. I am so glad to be far away from VB6. C# and .Net 4 are awesome, and what I've used so far of VS2010 is awesome as well.

chatch
chatch

I'm all for .NET 4 though. C# 4.0 is outstanding.

Justin James
Justin James

What don't you like about VS 2010? I'm already preferring it greatly to 2008, and I'm domeone who didn not like 2008 compared to 2005 very much. There are some things about 2010 I could do without (the look and feel takes some getting used to) but the feature improvements and additions are amazing. The parallel debugger and Intellitrace are worth the price of admission to me. J.Ja

andrejakostic
andrejakostic

... I don't like: In order to manage default include directories for C++, you have to create new project, go to its property sheets and then change settings under Microsoft.Cpp.Win32.user PPSh. The tools->options->Projects and Solutions->VC++ Directories panel is still there, but it just points to property sheets. I understand that large projects will be happier with property sheets, but why change the default directories settings location? I mean, why should global settings be hidden under settings for a single project?

andrejakostic
andrejakostic

I mean what else would you use if you need to work with M$ tech? And they did improve C++ support a lot in the 2010, still no IntelliSense for C++/CLR though. And don't get me started with Borland! I had a project for University that had to be done in BCC 3.0!

four49
four49

People still use C++? In Visual Studio? Why not just stick with Borland?

adimauro
adimauro

I agree, I'm loving VS2010 so far. I have already removed all traces of VS2008 from my computer. It's a great IDE, and I even like the look and feel. Of course, you can completely customize it, anyway, and even make it look like VS2008, if you really wanted to. I believe ScottGu had a post about it.

jpdecesare
jpdecesare

The choice list for voting needs one more selection: "Yikes, somebody has had time to fully evaluate VS2010/.Net 4 already???" =-)

sorgfelt
sorgfelt

Of course Visual Studio 2010 and .NET 4 are slick. But it does not support Report Server projects, so I still have to keep Visual Studio 2008 installed. Another reason is that I use Tofino to support a Flash project, but Tofino still only supports VS 2008. I will probably see Tofino offer VS 2010 support before Microsoft offers Reporting Services support.

n.gurr
n.gurr

How do you rate Eclipse / other development environments as a comparison? What are other people's opinions? I support an environment where both are installed and taught, while I do not know much my self I would love some professional informed comparison. Thanks for your time.

jefferyp2100
jefferyp2100

Neither my employer or our consulting clients seem eager to move to .Net 4 at this time. I do have VS 2010 Pro at home and I expect to install it on my work laptop sometime very soon. I'm still getting used to the changes in the IDE, so I will wait to post an opinion. However, I'm disappointed in the support for smart devices and phones as there isn't any. I understand Microsoft's push to Windows Mobile 7, which won't be released for several months. But I am very disappointed in the absence of support for Windows Mobile 6.x projects. Fortunately, I still have VS 2008 Pro. I'm not at all happy with Microsoft's Mobile Development Strategy. Apple's policies are draconian and I'm really looking at focusing my mobile development on Android.

ps2goat
ps2goat

I don't understand how professionals who keep themselves employed have the time to review all of these various beta releases. I suppose if they were building tools for Visual Studio, it would make sense. For me, there's no point in working in something that could change with the release version. I've had VS 2010 for a month now, and I still haven't found the time to load it up yet. (This week! I promise!) The only beta I've found remotely useful so far was the Atlas beta, since the official release was scheduled to launch with enough time prior to our deployment to make any changes (not many were necessary).

ArnoldZiffle
ArnoldZiffle

Well, before you load it up just know it's going to totally screw up your VS 2008 or 2005. Trust me I had to back it out so I could continue developing.

gak
gak

Subj, so there are 3 of them living in harmony.

andrejakostic
andrejakostic

Actually, I'm using 2008 pro and 2010 ulti side by side without any problems.

Justin James
Justin James

Most of the folks I know who are really able to stay on or ahead of the curve are people who devote their personal time to it. A lot of them give up time with family, or time spent on hobbies or leisure, because to them, this *is* their hobby. J.Ja

mubbasher
mubbasher

I love programming.... Since I started learning in c/c++ in 2001 You would love n enjoy it. If you are a GOOD Programmer, and u have chosen to be a programmer as profession.... After 2009-- I am a bit out of touch with .Net framework as a matter profession. //**************************************** NOW I UNDERSTAND, HOW CAN ONE DO THAT ALL.... ITS THE ENVIRONMENT, Ur Friends, Office fellows and Family members. IF any of these are not supporting ITS Very hard to follow this bunch of information............ //*************************************** As who cares.......... If you are getting paid without not knowing .Net 4.0.........

kevin.stafferton
kevin.stafferton

That is a philosophy I am fully in agreement with, but I am in admiration of people who can do a full day's job and still go home to program their own projects and learn new things for themselves. Some people really do enjoy programming and can think of nothing more enjoyable that programming in their free time as well. I would count myself as one but when juggling work, family and other interests I'm afraid programming as a hobby seems to have taken a back seat lately.

al
al

I only ask one thing of myself these days: Do you live to work, or work to live? I work very hard for my customers, but there comes a point in every day that I have to say "this is for me and mine." My "free time" is just that - MINE. Think about it!

DukeCylk
DukeCylk

Well you just uncovered a whole different topic to explore. Yes, I enjoy programming and I have developed in dozens of languages over the last 27 years, but all of them were a means to an ends. I probably am not in the same level of expertise as most of the hardcore developers here...I am a hack. First and foremost I was en engineer, but because I found I could make my job easier, my work more consistent I became a programmer/developer. Then somewheree along the line I fooled enough people to think I was an expert, HA! Sure I enjoy tinkering, but after ten hours a day of doing this at work, I tend to neglect my programming hobby and instead play games, watch TV, read, cook, sail, and spend time with my family. I often go from Friday ebening to Monday morning without reading email. I check scores and weather, read LOST blogs, but I avoid the tech articles. My brain is full may I be excused?