CXO

Does IT eat its young?

Sometimes IT is less than welcoming to new blood. Is your IT department willing to destroy its future in order to maintain its current all-stars?

In nature, several species routinely eat their young for various reasons, ranging from scarcity of food resources to eliminating future competition for mates. While this behavior has been recorded in humans in various cultures, it's currently manifested metaphorically in several fields where senior personnel obstruct, sabotage, or make life generally difficult for new entrants to the field. In response to one of my recent articles about IT's "woman problem," several readers emailed that whether they agreed or not with IT having a problem with the fairer sex, there was obstructionist behavior toward new entrants.

The not-so-beautiful arts and IT

The field in which I've witnessed this behavior at its worst is in the arts. While my artistic abilities are generally limited to a stick figure or two, I come from a family of artists who have worked in fine art, film, and crafts. When my sister was in film, she'd recount tales of maniacal directors and bosses with inane demands, short tempers, and little more than strings of expletives directed at junior staff.

My own experience with publishing was similar, where literary agents made petty demands and snide remarks until my book was commercially published, when suddenly my calls would be returned and I was no longer treated as a life form slightly lower than pond scum.

When confronted on this behavior, I'm usually given some variation of a "survival of the fittest" explanation-that senior staff in the field exhibit unreasonable behavior to "weed out" those who can't make it in the field, and that engendering "eating of the young" makes the field as a whole stronger.

While less prevalent than in the arts, I've seen similar behavior in IT. A rock star developer or technician is given a pass on poor behavior, and managers and junior staff shrink back in awe when this person enters a room. In other cases, there might be a grizzled veteran who possesses specific knowledge of a complex legacy system and avoids sharing any knowledge or specifications in order to protect his turf and build job security.

In cases where these types of behavior are tolerated, "eating of the young" routinely occurs as those with superior longevity, and hence superior knowledge, use this knowledge as a means to bully new staff. Management is generally complicit in this activity and is willing to destroy its future in order to maintain its current all-stars.

An alternative approach

I've spent most of my working years as a consultant within IT organizations and have always been intrigued by how consultant organizations treat their new staff. Like fields that eat their young, the big consulting companies will identify high-potential talent, even if their experience lies outside the content area in which they'll be consulting. When I started at a large consulting firm, more of my peers had history or marketing degrees rather than degrees in information systems or computer science.

Almost to a fault, these organizations invest heavily in training and early staff development, and then throw the new folks onto a consulting project in a menial role. During the first six months of my career I did everything from mind-numbing massaging of spreadsheets to running errands for office supplies.

While similar to the role of a new staffer on a film, I was never insulted or belittled, and was explicitly told that the goal of this role was to get used to the consulting environment and essentially be "tested" before being given more responsibility. When I was assigned to my next project, "trial period" over, I was expected to perform alongside more senior developers, and soon after was leading my own teams of developers and business analysts.

While the "trial by fire" aspect was similar to the arts, I learned in a supportive environment, and insults, poor behavior, and bullying by more senior staff were simply not tolerated. Those who couldn't do the work were naturally weeded out, and senior staff actively encouraged development and advancement for those who were capable.

There's no harm in breaking in new staff through more menial tasks, and coddling staff doesn't do anyone any favors, especially as terms like "bullying" have become overused to the point that they lack any meaning.

However, there's a difference between "testing" staff through challenging work and subjecting new staff to rudeness, poor behavior, and active harassment in some misguided attempt to toughen them up. Either of the above approaches results in competent senior staff; however, the fine arts-style approach generates cynical, mean-spirited staff that actively eats the young of their industry. Which would you rather have in your organization?

About

Patrick Gray works for a global Fortune 500 consulting and IT services company and is the author of Breakthrough IT: Supercharging Organizational Value through Technology as well as the companion e-book The Breakthrough CIO's Companion. He has spent ...

60 comments
HAL 9000
HAL 9000

As far as I am concerned only if they are Young, Tender and Tasty as well as being well cooked it would be OK. After all what sensible person would want to eat a Tough Old Grizzled IT person? Not any decent food at all involved in the Old IT people so you go for a great meal and find the Young Tender and Tasty IT people to eat. I've been told in the past that they taste like chicken but as I detest chicken and all Fowl I'll pass. ;) Col

TRgscratch
TRgscratch

of "eating the young' (your definition) is inbreeding and "not-invented-here syndrome"

tacooper
tacooper

Just got a new 30 something tech that replaced a 20 something tech. This guy has plenty of knowledge, however, no work ethic. Doesn't come to work on time, he knows everything (so he thinks), cell phone dings about every 30 seconds. I am smart enough to know I don't know everything and I don't feel threatened by the fact that he has way more current training than me. My previous tech was younger, in school and very eager to take on new responsibilities. I had no problem with her youth. She could work circles around new guy. This guy is a slug, and yes I have politely told him so. I am waiting for him to discover that he really doesn't know everything.

ctsanders
ctsanders

Wow, I was listening to the various comments and read your article. It seems that people for the most part are very insecure about their skill sets and the jobs that they have. I think as seasoned or new IT professionals, we need to remain vigilant and hungry when it comes to our skillsets. I have a master's degree with over 20 certifications but I am not stopping. I think we should embrace our youth and bring them up to speed. For me that helps me stay on top of my game. If that is not the case, then those people need to retire. Just a word from the wise. Todd

devshop
devshop

...by full-time staffers. I was hired because of my years of experience in migrating old technologies to new, but the project never got off the ground. I spent the first three weeks in my cubie with no computer at all!, and then another four weeks waiting for the development software to be approved and installed. Those first seven weeks pretty much set the stage for the next five months... nothing to do, no meetings to attend. Many weeks I didn't even get one email. Why I was hired, getting paid 'way more than the full-time staffers, and yet given nothing to do, is still a mystery to me, but the full-time employees made sure I didn't get a foothold in anywhere. Another example of clueless corporate management.

Georgia Madman
Georgia Madman

IT doesn't eat their young -- they eat their old. Try finding an IT job when you're 50. Everyone knows ageism exists and they're pretty open about it. I've been in many meetings reviewing resumes where the manager says "too old."

Zzznorch
Zzznorch

My first IT job was with a tiny company. As the new guy, I got to clean the office (the boss did not want to pay $20 a week to the landlords cleaning person) and I also got to work an extra hour. When everyone went home at 5pm, I had to stay alone in the office until 6pm. The boss would often call around 5:57pm or so to tell about something he "forgot" to tell me earlier (right). Turned into a very depressing job and I was let go after four months (thankfully as it turned out).

tech
tech

But in IT, as most fields, for instance. If you are too quick to embrace that 'new talent' it can be painful not only for the old salt, but for the entire organization. This is why, typically, the younger people need to prove their worth. Not only that they know the technical side, but that they understand how what they do will affect the business as a whole. When someone starts working for me I rarely set them out on a critical task, and if I do it is with a LOT of oversight. There is a lot more to almost any career than school. School teaches the very basics, but it doesn't teach you how things work in the real world. Classic example, new kid just got his CCNA was tasked with setting up a network for a business I consult for. I normally, wouldn't have set a new hire on the task, but I was short handed and he seemed up to the challenge. He failed to properly understand the scope correctly and as a result ended up creating a loop in the network (in case you don't know, that is bad). What's worse is when reports of trouble came in he checked a couple of things and said 'not my configuration, look elsewhere'. Bottom line, only after two complete network failures took down the entire business and only after several days of complaints and after a more experienced consultant was sent in was the problem identified and corrected. Some might say "That is how you learn" and certainly that is true, but it nearly cost me an account I have had for more than 15 years. The 'new talent' fresh out of school often don't understand the implications of a system going down that hundreds or thousands of people rely on. Of course that is not limited to new talent, but until the more experienced staff know your abilities it is often not wise to entrust too much too soon, The price for getting it wrong can be very steep and cost more than one person their job, something many "young talent's" don't realize, or appreciate. In the interview after the issue was resolved he said, yes, he made a mistake, but it wasn't too bad. Tell that to the owner of the business who had 300 people doing nothing for more than an hour, twice. Even at minimum wage (which is less than a 1/3 what most of the people made) you are still talking costing the company more than $4,800. As for the 'bullying' (very highly and over used term) aspect, different things motivate different people. Some times you need to use a carrot and sometimes you need to use a stick. What I have noticed over the years is that the younger generations are a lot more impatient, and a lot more thin skinned than older generations were at a given age. School is very important, and the knowledge you gain will serve you well, but until you have experience wielding the knowledge in the real world, rather than on a test, that knowledge is of limited value.

darab_a
darab_a

It is pretty competitive and still time to time new attempts from overly smart to social engineer it. It is useful as the few lines in your xmas cookie. There is not enough job in the woods for rain maker wizards?

ryan101
ryan101

I have been a consultant for over 25 years, and have worked with many different people environments and cultures. I believe in people first, without happy people you have nothing of real value. I can say without a doubt that environments where people were acknowledged and respected for who they were had a much higher level of success. And I can also say that over the 25 years, people in leadership positions have progressively become more self centered, thinking more about themselves and actively taking down those with potential. After all, that's what makes them leaders always wining a fight, in business competition or jostling for a position of power within the organisation or life in general. We no longer live in a world where the elders of society groomed or set the example for the young to be leaders of tomorrow. There are two types of leaders ( Warring leaders & Wise leaders ) there are more warriors than leaders with wisdom - actually you need to seek and look for leaders with wisdom - it's been said that master shows up when the student is ready. I was young once, am still young at heart, it does not mater if your young or old, if you have the will to make a difference to society, you must find a way to do so. Just do not expect an obvious leader to do it for you, you must find the leader (courage, will, etc) inside yourself to make a difference.

LeCreaux
LeCreaux

I recently retired from nearly 30 years of military service, the last 20 years or so in IT. I can definitely agree that the IT culture was as advertised in this blog post. But since I was a member of "management" at the end of my career I can also agree that fault lies squarely in the management's court. We're not blind to what's going on, but it's easier to fix in theory than practice. The consolation is that these IT folks' jobs are not as secure as they'd like to believe. Leadership will get rid of them as soon as a team player shows up who can match their skills. In every hiring board I participated in, teamwork and soft skills were high priority and I hope that trend continues and propagates.

Mark Miller
Mark Miller

I used have a jaundiced eye for the Unix community because of this. This is my theory. In an exploratory or creative field, the people in it have a sense that what's produced comes out of themselves, and teamwork can dilute the accomplishment, because it can be like having too many chefs. They are focused on creating, not necessarily collaborating. Contributions are only appreciated if they are skillful and complementary. They continually develop their skill on their own, and they have a sense that their survival depends on their talent, and those who can contribute to their goal by having an intuitive sense of anticipating where they're going. They don't have patience with training people who are just coming up in the world, partly because they spend most of their time developing and expressing their talent, and partly because they don't put a lot of faith in training. Training tends to constrain what one can see as possible, and they must always be venturing into new territory. Therefor their horizons must seem as limitless as they can muster. They do what they do because they love it, or they feel somehow it's what they're good at. They feel they came to what they are now doing through their own efforts to educate themselves and develop their talent, whether that was true in reality or not. They expect the same of the people they work with. They may not understand how they became as skilled as they are, and so would be at a loss to explain it. Also, they may feel that if they were to take time to explain how they came to their skill, it would take away from what they want to do, and/or they would lose their place among their peers. Due to the nature of their field, they recognize there are a lot of bad ideas out there, and so it pays to be critical of accomplishments. In fact the criticism they received was part of their developmental process. While they were developing their skill, they felt criticized by their own mistakes, or by others who came before them. They feel they developed a resolve that helped them push through the sting of that criticism to get where they are, and it makes sense that they would want people around them who have the same thick skin. They want people who are serious about what they're doing, and who won't quit on their own talent, or on them. They do not have a sense that there is "a way" to do what they do, even if there are some principles behind it they may not have taken time to recognize. They have a sense they are always venturing into new territory, and so they are always dealing with uncertainty about how their efforts will turn out. Their skill is in being able to venture into unknown territory while compensating for their mistakes, and avoiding common pitfalls. In short, they see themselves as pioneers who came to where they are through the school of hard knocks, and they expect others they work with to progress via. the same school. I don't discount the notion that there are people in these fields who attack and sabotage underlings to protect their turf. This may go along with the idea that they feel their talent, their ability to accomplish their goals, comes out of themselves, not necessarily through teamwork, and they see anyone with talent as someone who may surpass them. You can see this a lot in corporate environments as well where creative talent is not valued much. I'd chalk it up to bad management practices.

Slayer_
Slayer_

I prefer my fetuses in a semi spherical vacuum.

skootert221
skootert221

A supportive and educational environment will always be more beneficial in the long run than one that is demeaning to new staff. People work in different manners and respond to leadership in their own way as well. Belittling employees is a wonderful way to decrease morale, increase turnover, and create conflict. The opposite will make people want & enjoy their work, instead of feeling as if they have to work.

JohnOfStony
JohnOfStony

Throughout my career, I've worked in small companies. I've always been either a solo programmer or worked with one or two others, each with his own specific area. I have never felt unwelcome or rejected and never been bullied or done any bullying. Foul language has been rare and I've thoroughly enjoyed the vast majority of my years in IT. Is it because the UK where I live and work is a different environment from where the author of this article works? Does this behaviour exist primarily in large organizations? Or have I just been lucky? One job I left because I was given what, to me, were definite signs that I was no longer appreciated yet some years later I heard through the grapevine that the managing director of the company I had left told a friend of mine (talking about me) "He should never have left us". One thing I have encountered is incompetence where management is reluctant to get rid of the incompetent. I remember one occasion many years ago in a previous job where I phoned my boss at his home on a Saturday to beg him to get rid of a useless guy I was working with. Fortunately the useless guy did leave.

pethers
pethers

I'd have to agree with your own experience of a Team Environment - I too was taught that Team work was the key and everyone needed to get along. I have worked in a firm that uses this mantra for years and I couldn't now work anywhere that doesn't. Of course all new staff are started on the basic stuff and are handed better jobs as they prove themselves, but there is absolutely no need for degrading people. If you work in this Team environment with support from management who practice what they preach, then there is no fear of job security or a need to keep information to yourself. Those behaviours are caused by a hostile work place. Lets be straight here - who wants to go to work and be treated like crap all day long? It's not the way to run a business, and its not going to get the best from anyone. Grow up if you are one of those that act like this in the workplace - stop acting like a spoilt child.

Smedley54
Smedley54

If you think it's hard being a pup, try being an old fart!

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

It's never going to happen. Every year I'm in the job I realise I know less than I used, because I'm capable of learning more...

tbmay
tbmay

And it's not completely unfounded because people have wised up....hopefully....to the point they realize a job is a business relationship. Even if you believe like our parents did in things like loyalty, and you're the most A number one super duper guy at your job, when someone up the food chain decides to outsource or cut or make you miserable because she or he just doesn't care for you, those skills don't make your life better. "Small mindedness" is very common in workplaces and it's so entrenched in some cultures you'd have a better chance of winning the lottery than convincing anyone to change. In those cases, I'd weigh my options and determine if I could be happy working in the environment. In the case of some government jobs, they are reasonable stress free if you don't mind leaving your brain at home and not being challenged. If you simply can't deal with it, moving on is probably the only real option. There's a proper way to do that to get what you want. Find out what your perfect job is, ask people in leadership positions what they would want in terms of skills, experience, and credentials to get there, and start working towards it specifically. Don't just start getting certs and things just because you imagine they're good things to get, or you just want to. That's expensive, and there are too many of them changing too often for you to be playing a guessing game.

Imprecator
Imprecator

30 years operating and supporting almost every version of Unix that ever came out, every version of Windows that has come out, Large RDBMs (that means ORACLE, from version 5 to 11), Cisco Routers and Switches, Storage Hardware from simple Raid controllers to stuff like EMC2, Installing and supporting weird beasts like Peoplesoft, Siebel, and that piece of crap known as Oracle Application Server. Doing Perimeter Security, maintaining RSA SecurID solutions and I'm sure I've forgotten a thing or two. Yeah, I'm insecure. Everytime a new version of Firefox comes out, I crap my pants and break into a cold sweat because it might mean that my job will be outsourced to the cloud.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Resenter and resentee. Probably easier to find ways round it in the UK though, we never fell for the cubicle idea. You ever been brought in to take the hit. As in last person to be "in charge" of an impending management failure?

Imprecator
Imprecator

The youngsters charge less, use less insurance and more importantly: when asked to do something technically stupid they don't tell management that they're full of crap.

Imprecator
Imprecator

"Management" ACCEPTS IT AND FOSTERS IT because it is acceptable to them, PERIOD. I still remember a call I once got from an IT CEO at an insurance company whining that his infrastructure was in tatters, that his personnel had no skills, that everything was a disaster, and on the same breath complaining that the salary a good IT infrastructure resource was too close to what he paid managers. SO: sorry, no dice. Teamwork and soft skills are are pretty nice buzzwords, but when the Infrastructure goes down and some dogbreath at the C level complains about it, Teamwork and soft skills go out the window and the fingerpointing begins. And MID-LEVEL Managers are the first to do so.

anne.sullivan
anne.sullivan

I have worked in both small and large IT groups and have found this behavior only in the large groups. The small organizations had a different problem -- we are always so short-staffed that the new people end up thrown in the deep end too quickly. As a result, many of them can't gear up as fast as they need to so they leave, feeling like they have failed when they work they had done was actually quite good, just not enough for what the environment needed.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

at large and small companies. In all cases it was where management either through their own stupidity or union pressure believed that longevity = experience.

Mark Miller
Mark Miller

While I was a college student taking CS, I did a brief stint as an IT admin. at a different school over one summer, and got somewhat harassed by a professor there, who turned out to teach a course in Unix admin. I later learned that she felt insulted that the school's IT dept. would think to hire someone who hadn't taken her class. The school's IT dept. tried to explain to her that all of her students were gone on summer break, and people like me were the only ones available, but she didn't buy it. Mostly what I've encountered is incompetence in management, and some of that involved what I suspect was sabotage. I worked for one guy for a year who constantly "kept me on my toes." I saw it as a communication problem, but I later read a description that sounded an awful lot like him, and attributed it to a kind of passive-aggressive behavior, where the idea is to keep people off balance, making them look the fool. He was constantly surprising me with meetings that I wasn't prepared for, and demands for information and materials that he hadn't previously requested and given me time to prepare. It all seemed to track back to incompetence, only the manager *knows* s/he is incompetent, and feels very insecure about it. The behavior is a tactic to distract everyone from this fact, and to make everyone else look less competent.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

where all these posts are coming from. The people who find me most threatening have always been those I'm trying to shift out of their comfort zone. Some of them have been older than me, some not (more of the latter as my career lengthens). In my experience, it hasn't been rock stars and entrenched time servers who've got in the way most, it's been management. I've never met anyone more frightened of change than them, and they create environments in which they can feel safe from people like me. I've worked with rock stars and time servers a lot, I never felt threatened by them. No one wants to work somewhere where they are treated like crap all day long, many of us feel we have to, no matter how old they are, or how long they've been there. This article like many others of Patrick's reeks of buck passing and cop out. This is not an IT problem, it's a management one. The environments which you are all alluding to can only exist if they are fostered and supported by management.

kwickset
kwickset

Better to be an old fart than a young dick-head! Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill!

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

You have been upsetting people and they remember. I on the other hand am [i]NICE[/i] can do no wrong and do not go around upsetting people. :^0 Besides that answer didn't take into account that there isn't enough Meat on the bones of those young and you would need several to get a half way decent snack. You need to grow them for a long enough time to get a lot of meat on the bones so that they make a decent meal. So I can fully understand why you got down-voted. It's way too much a massive waste to eat that way and very Labor Intensive growing your preferred meals. :0 Col ]:)

Imprecator
Imprecator

who know everything, are buried six feet under.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

makes them insecure, not us. I'm not insecure about a job, if it turns out to be not a very good one, I'll go get another. When you tell or show them that, and they realise they aren't in the boss seat in terms of our careers, then they start nail biting and fidgeting. Job != Career for me, never has. They manage their job, I manage my career.

Imprecator
Imprecator

That was me playing the Mid-Level Manager game. The idiot before me, despised by his employees was a friend of his direct boss, I was suckered into his job just as a major networking project (implementing VOIP) went to the crapper, guess who had to take the hit?

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

you might want to try. "There are some downsides to proceeding like that" :D I once tried to save a newbie who was 'erm influenced to do something imbecilic by management. He didn't listen either. This might be hard to credit, but they blamed him! I know, shocking isn't it, you would have thought the manager would have been accountable! If you were young...

the-dream
the-dream

Tony, I always look forward to reviewing your take subjects when I browse these forums. I don't post much but I read often. I remember your comments on a question I posted some time ago about the "heir apparent." (You were the only one to comment BTW) I originally took exception to it but time has proven you right. The story I shared has had a very nasty domino effect that is damaging that company to this day. Every roadblock I have encountered has been due to management and not due to any peer. I had to leave this company recently for that very reason, a non-productive environment created by illogical decisions by management that has led to talented people being dismissed or run off to be replaced by brown-nosers and yes people.

chiplugo
chiplugo

..... and don't forget the 'Bean-counters'. Along with your mid and upper level managers, when the bean-counters chime in, the IT staff is not considered a 'producer' (until something fails or isn't maintained) and let the IT staff be identified as the first to go for 'downsizing' efforts ..... even before the 'sales' teams in the revolving doors....

Imprecator
Imprecator

Since my social skills are less developed than yours I will put it more bluntly. Management these days is more akin to learned sociopaths than to "Leaders" and they surround themselves with syncophants. As a result they abuse their direct report line while spouting "Daniel Goleman/Steven Covey" bullcrap so it doesn't look that bad. The syncophants at middle management do the same to the grunts. When the grunts' complaints grow large enough, Managent is SOOO SHOCKED that they tell HR to send everyone to "Daniel Goleman/Steven Covey" Pijama parties so everyone loves each other. Rinse, Repeat Apparently it works fine for Marketing and Sales, it doesn't seem to work for IT for some reason or another.

nyssssa
nyssssa

Youth & good looks will kick age & treachery's ass any day.

Slayer_
Slayer_

Me being nice never got me up votes.... so why would I try that now? lol

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

keep it secret, for fear of ridicule by our good selves. :D

kwickset
kwickset

I am no longer young enough to know everything!

the-dream
the-dream

Although I would describe myself as a fast learner. It took me a little while to accept the truth about controlling ones career. While good managers can do much to point us in the right direction, we must still control our "destiny". I was recently forced out of a "job" mainly due to office politics and those same insecurities. A new manager decided that I would not fit into the future plans for the department, she knew I was good at what I did but she also discovered that I was not going to play the type of underhanded politics that she was trying to promote, so she decided strip me of all of my responsibilities (leave hundreds of databases and servers un-managed mind you) and exile me in a poorly managed and dying project that depended on my weakest skill-set. At the same time, however, I was expected to charge to the rescue when issues arose in my former job lest I suffer the consequences. The "job" changed and would have stalled or derailed my career. So, I wisely took back the "steering wheel" of that vehicle called my career and headed for greener pastures..

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

stayed with them 19 years. ~I started after denationalisation, and went thru 3 significant downsizes even after that. They could say what they wanted to about job for life. they demonstrated it was bollocks on a regular basis.I was loyal, all the time they were offering me decent roles for decent money I worked hard to justify the offer. There main effort in keeping me was telling me I'd hit my ceiling and had no equivalent value outside of the role they wanted me have. Wrong....

tbmay
tbmay

I still know a lot of folks...mostly retired now...who believe the only "right" way for a person to be is go to work somewhere, stay there 30 or 40 years, and retire. Otherwise you're not "loyal" A job hopper...hired gun...etc etc. They were brainwashed by companies that wanted them to think that way at the time. Of course, a lot of them got burned with manufacturing was sent away; however, they STILL don't seem to understand why guys like you and I don't just be good loyal employees. Talk about a disconnect.

Imprecator
Imprecator

I'm just glad I wasn't as despised as the last idiot who managed them.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

to count the number of managers I've worked with who didn't operate on those two rules. If you'd have said that me as one of your boys, I would have given you marks for honesty.

Imprecator
Imprecator

.....consider "There are some downsides to proceeding like that" to be a synonym of "You're full of !"ยท$%&/()=" when I WAS a mid-level manager I used to joke around with my guys telling them that I had two rules: Rule 1) If everything goes well, it was thanks to my leadership Rule 2) If something goes wrong it is ALWAYS your fault, if you have a supplier nearby, shift the blame to him. I was making a parody of how MY BOSS treated me.

Imprecator
Imprecator

Sounds right to me Even to the ones that actually like all that "Emotional Intelligence" stuff realize by the third or fourth Pajama Party what the deal is.

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Despite retention not being what it was in corporate ville , sales and marketing tend to cycle staff through their departments at a much higher rate than IT. So we tend to have been to a lot of pajama parties.

kwickset
kwickset

works quite well for a gigolo.