CXO

The fallacy of talent shortages and H-1B visas

We've all heard about the tech talent shortage and the need for H-1B visas. But how do you reconcile that with the soaring unemployment rate of U.S. military vets?

I, as have you, have been hearing for months about a shortage of tech talent in the U.S. I, probably unlike you, have been on the receiving end of emails from countless U.S. IT pros looking for advice on how to get hired. U.S. military vets-some of whom have worked with cutting edge tech while enlisted--have a higher unemployment rate than the general population. What is wrong with this picture?

And now there are efforts to increase the cap on H-1B visas so companies can attract the "best and brightest people in the world." (If you squint really hard, you'll be able to read the rest of that sentence which is "...for less money than they have to pay U.S. workers."

And, really, that's the real deal isn't it? But if you say anything publicly about this, then you're "anti-India," or something along those lines. Seems to me I'm "pro-India" if I'm against hiring Indian folks to do work for a fraction of the cost we'd pay U.S. workers.

What possible reason could anyone make this assertion? Well, try reading this report from the U.S. Government Accountability Office that says, although H-1B workers are supposed to be paid "prevailing wages," that rule is rarely enforced and that oversight is "cursory."

An excellent article by Martin Kaste for NPR's All Tech Considered, talks about what many believe is possibly really behind all the kumbayah all-hands-across-the-water, increase-the-cap movements: The top ten recipients in the last fiscal year of H-1B visas were all offshore-outsourcers. Kaste quotes Ron Hira, a professor of public policy at the Rochester Institute of Technology:

"They got 40,000 of the 85,000 visas - which is astonishing."

From the article:

"For the past decade, he's [Hira] been studying how consulting firms use temporary work visas to help American companies cut costs. He says they use the visas to supply cheaper workers here, but also to smooth the transfer of American jobs to information-technology centers overseas."

If you're a U.S. tech worker, it's worth your time-and in your best interest--to check out the report and the article by Kaste.

About

Toni Bowers is Managing Editor of TechRepublic and is the award-winning blogger of the Career Management blog. She has edited newsletters, books, and web sites pertaining to software, IT career, and IT management issues.

94 comments
phani.rocks
phani.rocks

Found the discussions to be interesting, but my 2 cents. Reform the government laws if you can but don't be racial, we are suffering with our country too as yours, but as a human one will always look for the options available. Kill the citizenship to outsiders like India/China and make the temporary employment for 6 years and see if you find the difference. If you are happy to sit and do nothing just because the employer is not paying you the wage you think, and whine on others then please, be on your own. As long as, employee willing to work for more hours, then any employer in this world would be willing to hire him. 

Coming to the skills, don't deny the fact that the stupids are there in every part of the world. If you only accept intellectuals but not stupids then make your immigration laws tough to the root. Trust me, no one would ever look at the Immigration office, again. A very well known scenario, stupid who can't get to US on work will come through the route of Student, then when one goes through MS here and then applies for OPT and becomes a skilled worker . How come a person in just 2 years became intellectual or just bcoz an american employer hired him. Language is never a barrier if you would like to live with that person. You could train a person to learn language but you can't make him think like an intellectual just in no time.  After all this, you say the people studied in US are intellectuals no matter where he come from then I think, it's completely a different topic.


No country can prevent a greediness and in a capitalistic world like US, a big NO NO. 

gouthamsn
gouthamsn

Well written ... Most Indians on H1 can't even speak proper English ... I get asked this all the time by recruiters etc.. "You speak good English for an Indian".. And I am sick and tired of telling .. 'Wait a min, I studied in English since I was 3 yrs old .. Spoke English all thru my student and professional life, and why would it surprise you that I speak good English?".. And the answer almost always is "Most that I interact with can't speak proper English"... Ok that's one aspect, another one is, I have worked for the #1,#2 net worth IT companies... And the #1 product company by net worth... And honestly, while in India or in US... Most Indians I've encountered are fit for nothings. I hate it that I studied Computers since 9th grade (In ICSE is a proper subject and an elective, not the random Computers classes you had in schools in 90s).. Then I did PCMCs in 11th 12th.. And did my Comp. Engg., but now I sit with random Indians who did Mechanical, Electrical etc and are working on Data Warehousing, Java programming etc .. First of all most these guys are stupid and to top it they don't even know the basics. Most people with 10 yrs epx, can't understand normalization or star schema or write a simple self join query. Hence, Yes, Indians are taken not coz they are good, coz they are cheaper (though the law is meant to provide equal pay), and they are submissive to their bosses and will work manual dog job for hours.

Omkar Svamy
Omkar Svamy

Market economy - let the market decide the wages. Just because you are a citizen you shouldn't be more expensive for an employer. We import manufactured goods at Chinese prices or export at American prices. Likewise services - why shouldn't the market decide pricing? The price of an American professional should not ideally be dictated by artificial supply constraints like immigration rules. This doesn't work anymore, most work is independent of geographical locations and will be pushed offshore if you try this. You are shutting doors on folks willing to work at a lower price (indirectly increasing costs) and directly losing revenue (higher taxes and savings). Look at Apple's international profits - should China and India start shouting American's earning more profits at their expense? Funny - you can't have your cake and eat it too!

Attitudes/Safe zones - an employee on a H1 is willing to relocate at a short notice and learn on the job, real quick if needed and provides a lot more flexibility on shifts or working hours. How many of us would say yes?

The United States population is Green unlike Japan, Europe or China which are already at an alarming Red or Orange stages - this happens only because the market allows sustainable immigration. Want to go up to the levels of Japan which has unsustainable demographics?

Finally -

Does anyone realize that most Americans are not native to the Americas?

Our forefathers who signed 'The Declaration' envisaged a society which welcomed diversity. George Washington to Abe Lincoln to Barack Obama? See the change? (not a big fan of Obama - but still ;) )

There are 60 year olds working every day - trying to learn new things, and seeing the warmth in the eyes of some of these newcomers when they talk technology. Not everyone might fit the bill but should we be seeing everybody through tinted glasses?

skyrider1320
skyrider1320

There is a solution to this problem of half baked so called "IT professionals" from the ghetto called India, taking our jobs. At the risk of me being dubbed a "racist", I will say this - We need to focus on what we do for ourselves.  Towards that, we need our industry and our lawmakers to join hands with us. Together we can call the bluff that we can not do without these geniuses from India.  Nothing is impossible and if we have a nation wide referendum, a majority of us would want the H1-B  category to go.

Indian IT Industry, lead by their NASSCOM (National association of software companies) uses high profile lobbying firms, spends millions of dollars to have India friendly laws passed. We need to stop that. We need our  jobs back. Indians can find jobs in India or go elsewhere. WE WILL SURVIVE (AND DO BETTER) WITHOUT THESE GUYS FROM INDIA (Yes, I was yelling)

skyrider1320
skyrider1320


Let us face it. These Indians have been brought by consulting companies (Body shoppers) from India, for two reasons: 1) These are essentially "skilled, but cheap labor" who are nothing but slaves. They will do anything for a living, including 80 hour weeks, working at midnight, talking about work over the phone with their colleagues (like "Hey I got your email", and I am working on that". and things like "line 26 of your script seems to have a problem). And you will hear this at 10 in the night. So these idiots would do the work of 4 persons -  like a business analyst will be a project manager, an architect and a tester, and work for $ 30 an hour!

Have you noticed how defensive they get, when you tell them that they have taken over the country and our jobs? Have you noticed how some of them can NOT get one full sentence in English right, and yet are "Systems Analysts",  "Program Managers", and even "Chief Technical Officers" of IT companies. Oh yeah, now they will call me a racist.......... but that is OK...... I know I am not a racist.   Have you noticed how some of these guys can't pronounce "ZERO"but  call it "JEERO"?

I was in India 3 years back and saw some of these idiots from the IT industry brag about how they run the US economy and how we would be destroyed, without their help. There is also this story going around all towns in India that Americans ( read "white") have less gray matter than Indians - and that is precisely why there are thousands of Indians here in the IT industry.

I blame our Industry here which has shown little or no patriotism. Instead of hiring people locally, they hire these guys from India, simply because they want to save money - that is a shame.  We need to be proud of who we are, and get rid of these vermin.

It is time to send these guys home, where they can live in the midst of 10 % inflation, traffic snarls, massive corruption, and eternal hopelessness.

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

Infosys senior level meetings : "We will dump 6 million Indians in US and capture their entire IT market and no American will ever come to know about this. We will throw these Americans out of their own country. They don't know what we are doing over here."

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

How old are you Ms. Bowers? And do you remember a time when IT in USA was run by Americans and the economy was booming and we were told Indians would only be here until Y2K and then go home. "Temporary guest workers" are not only temporary. They've now taken over and are deliberately excluding Americans from IT jobs due to historical reasons.

nanguneri
nanguneri

Hi Ms. Bowers,

Good day and this is an article that states the status on the lack of American Jobs with a high degree of clarity. Being an Asian Indian American and a Non IT professional, I can say, I am unbiased in my evaluations.

Pardon me for my techie type format in the response below: These are the facts that I came to understand since the years of getting my visa transitioned from student, to H1 B and then the green card and finally the grand award of the much coveted US Citizenship.

(1) The Companies hiring H1-B professionals cannot get away with hiring foreigners in the US with lower wages just because the local American Citizen or Green Card holder will not accept similar wages. This is because there is a minimum wage range for the given position with the associated job description. The details are also supposed to be posted for public view on a totally transparent basis. My colleagues, when I was on the H1-B decades ago teased me for knowing what salary I would get paid which was posted on the Advertisement.

So, if the US companies are getting away with hiring workers in the US on H1-B visas, then it tells me that the auditing process of their paperwork has been massaged to show one thing on the paper and in reality paying something else to the H1-B foreign worker/professional.

(2) This means we have an ineffective tracking and auditing mechanism and are unable to hold the employers liable and take legal action to deter other employers from this alleged practice.

(3) Second, if they are truly hiring workers at the wage that we may allege as "low wages" the American professional that is equally qualified is not understanding what the market pays and is unwilling to take the job and rather be unemployed for a longer time instead of taking it and getting the job benefits he needs and then moving on to something more suitable in the near future like any other professional who changes jobs and grows professionally.

(4) There should be a system that shows for every employer on a city basis as to what types of jobs have been filled with H1-B workers, the description, salary and competitive market wages and whether there were truly American professionals available to work on the same job or not. We severely lack such a system or even anything close to it.

(5) One of these military vets enlisted as a technology professional and a team amongst us can design a web based system that would help or encourage employers to voluntarily share their H1-B demographics and then we would know where and when to take action. It is not very difficult to to track this as each city tax database would have how many H1-B workers are living in the city and paying their corporate job related taxes and so we can cross check to see if these corporations are sharing everything they need to or are simply doing a dog and pony show.

Question is how long will we be singing the same song of hiring H1-B workers and getting nowhere? Corporations with power, wealth and name will try getting away with what they can till the the law gets its teeth on them. Until that happens, we will keep sharing our hypothesis and get no change for the unfortunate military vets who after having served our country are going nowhere in their career, let alone living their dreams in America.

Would you like to do something about this? If so, please let me know.

ashokathegreat
ashokathegreat

Ms Bowers,

The problem in tech industry is that anyone who knows how to use MS word and search things in google think of themselves as tech savvy. And, if they keep blabbering about IT for few years, then they present themselves as tech writers. Founding fathers of IT always thought of the world  as a global village.Unfortunately, there aren't many Dennis Ritchies left in this world (If you know who he was!).

TechCommunist
TechCommunist

Dear Ms Bowers.

Did the Indians turka durr?

Warm Regards

ashokathegreat
ashokathegreat

And one more thing to note: I read a lot of comments about the cheap labor. Believe me, the Indian technology workers are not paid cheap when they move in to US. I have done technology recruitment in US and I know the compensation paid to American workers.  The IT compensation in India has grown so high that if they are offered low wages in US, they will just move back to India and move to another company with higher pay. It is very easy to draw conclusion without getting into the root of the problem. The only reason that Indian and other immigrant IT workers appear stuck in US low paying jobs is because of the visa regime. They move to US with a decent pay and start their family here. However,  The US visa regime makes it extremely difficult for non-immigrant technology workers to change company or shift jobs. This is the loophole exploited by the companies to stagnate their pay or skill set. Moreover, with kids and family settled in US, it becomes difficult for them to move back or move to a different country by then. If the government had relaxed their insensitive regulations around visa and improved the permanent residency program for "Legal immigrants", the technology job market will become much more dynamic and productive. I personally know a lot of technology people who are extremely talented, can become great entrepreneurs, and they are willing to setup new companies in US and create jobs in America but are unable to do so because of the restrictive visa regime. 

ashokathegreat
ashokathegreat

There is one thing in the world that you MUST understand "You can't have your cake and eat it too". If America wants to have leading global financial institutions such as GS, Citibank and have other leading global MNCs such as Coke, Pepsi, Walmart, KFC etc then American companies need to keep their technology cost low. The only reason there is such a clamor about Indian getting technology visas is because it is on your face. If a factory is closed in US and moved to China where there is forced labor and miserable working conditions, no one makes a noise. However, you can see Indian technology workers sitting next to your office cube and that is what makes you uncomfortable. Keep in mind one thing: Making H1B difficult won't stop the flight of technology jobs overseas. Business is always smarter than government and they will find 10 new ways to overcome the limitations. On the other hand, technology immigrants have actually been a boon to American economy. The reason that the housing market in New Jersey - New York region is so strong is because of the demand generated from immigrant technology workers (read Indians). Also, keep in mind that these people move to US when they are at the most productive age and are consumers of American products. Each family buys a car, rent house and most importantly pays full taxes and social security without getting any political or social benefits. Next time you make such a biased opinion, just walk over to the next cube, talk to that Indian technology guy and may be you will discover that he is much smarter than your "Smart looking for job military vet" guy. 

Dynamo1234
Dynamo1234

I'm an H1B visa holder , and I get paid in 6 figures because I really bring hardware tech innovation to the States. That being said I deplore the general state of the H1B and the arguments for it. Most of them are low -tech workers under the guise of hi-tech workers doing menial jobs for what would be considered a pittance in the US. Wonder when this will improve. This also creates a stereotype of the H1B worker and a general classification of them as being from India or China. Wish something could be done about this.

discreteness4me
discreteness4me

... the training to accept low wages and poor working conditions. It makes me sick.

allennugent
allennugent

They call them 457 visas, here, and they've been using them to get cheap labour in the booming mining centres as well as in IT and other areas. When we started losing our manufacturing jobs to foreign competition we were told not to worry, because ours was primarily a service economy. Then they started outsourcing the back offices, call centres, customer service, and sales areas. But we still had agriculture.... until China started undercutting our food products and even buying our farmland. For a while we thought we'd always have the lead in high-tech and IT, but now the foreign competition is coming here to take the jobs. So, what have we got left (besides more wealth asymmetry)? The current laws governing these visas -- not to mention free trade -- are economically irresponsible and fundamentally unpatriotic. IT may be the best educated and informed industry to be under threat, so perhaps we should be leading a campaign to save our nations from this blight. (Perhaps if we could find a way to legitimately threaten executives and politicians with reciprocal outsourcing...)

JohnOfStony
JohnOfStony

Everything these days is viewed only in the short term. Yes, you can get overseas workers to do the same work for less pay than home-grown workers - NOW - but in so doing the home-grown population is being deskilled - what's the use of studying if the job you're aiming for is going to be outsourced? Once the outsourcing country has been thoroughly deskilled, the overseas workers and suppliers can raise their wages and prices as much as they like and the outsourcer can't do a thing about it other than pay up. Even governments only think in the short term because chances are that in a few years time when there's a general election someone else will have to clear up the mess they make. I sometimes despair at the general stupidity of leaders.of industries and countries - and those who put them there!

c_crumpton
c_crumpton

First and foremost, there is a surplus of laid-off and or forced-out retirement senior talent individuals in the engineering, programming and other high tech fields of research & development with the needed skills to fill all of the American labor market needs and more!. But, they are not coming back on the" cheap side" at H-1b visa prices and conditions. For the employers, this is great; they can use the h-1b visa and other less known government programs & gimmick loopholes to bring in foreign cheap labor and thus ... reduce their labor cost by almost 70%. The second benefit is that after ten years of this USA practice, the employers/industry has succeeded in lowering the value of being an employee engineer, scientist, programmer etc.and there is no more job security in these fields to protect them. Effectively, we fired the American worker and replaced him/her with much cheaper foreign workers; just as we replace American goods with cheaper foreign goods, ie China. There is enough laid off, force out and forced-retirement talented-American individuals who are ready and willing to work at their previous or similar levels; but not at the cheap h-1b visa levels. The medical and legal industries are also looking for ability to milk the h-1b visa program. Executive compensation skyrockets at the expense of replacing American labor with cheap foreign labor. In the fortune 1000 companies, it is absolutely about reducing the cost of labor by the process of ... getting rid of good American expensive labor, declare a "shortage of needed people available", and then move forward to bring in good young foreign labor at very low prices with promises of incremental increases for performance over long time periods. The strategy also stops the progressive salary and compensation increases of current workers and new hires; a technique that has put a damper on rising salaries as well as a cap on the value of American engineers and other technical workers. Since 1978, hiring cheap overseas talent and the use of the later h-1b visa programs and their equivalent programs have reduce average yearly cost of hiring the skilled technical and engineering talents by 68%. The value of being an engineer, scientist etc in America today is pretty much reduced being a used car salesperson at Burger King. The American job market is flooded with engineers, programmers etc at the now value of a dime-a-dozen; those who have been or currently being replaced by foreign workers. The medical and science fields are other targeted groups, as the giant companies, hospitals etc of the medical industry etc look to bring in h-1b visa cheap international talent to reduce their labor cost by laying off or forcing talent to retire..

fun1chicago
fun1chicago

India no longer pays most of it's IT workers a low wage. I hear this lame excuse about the need for the best and brightest by many of the biggest IT firms, It is interesting that we have made outsourcing deals where we enabled training of foreign workers, but those same companies fail to train IT people in the US. There are many older IT people who have stopped certifying and training because of the incessant certifications that expire and the amount of new products with incremental revisions that are packaged with costly training programs. Give me an IT person with 20-30 years experience over a certified "paper" beginning IT worker. The difference: The young IT worker may know something right away but often do not understand what happens when those changes are made. The older IT worker usually understands interaction between systems, data and devices. Downtime is expensive. Experience reduces downtime. There is no shortage of IT workers. H1-B brings over labor that work for substantially less. Some high end H1-B workers are brought in at the expense of others who can perform the same position. The US is #1 in software and H1-B puts that in critical jeopardy. H1-B inhibits the growth of IT workers here in the US. Let's not forget that IT will be used as a tool for gathering intelligence by countries and bringing foreign workers here decreases our National Safety. The H1-B process should be extremely selective and reduced.

lewis2005
lewis2005

In the early 80s my brother in law, a journeyman carpenter, moved to Houston to find work. One hundred thousand Americans were moving to Houston each week; because of job loss and manufacturers closing their doors. Houston was building vast new subdivisions and it appeared to be a good fit for his skill set. But contractors would not hire my brother in law. They did not want American construction workers who knew what they were doing. Contractors wanted cheap illegal immigrant labor that would do what they were told and not question shoddy construction! And unlike American craftsmen, illegal workers accepted living ten or twenty to a house or apartment. But is that fair to Americans who mastered the trades and sought to live the American dream?

BillGates_z
BillGates_z

Why bother to hire more expensive local people (or even, GASP, train some - didn't businesses used to do that?) when you can import cheap, outsourced workers who won't be around long enough to need messy expenses like long term health benefits or retirement funds.

craig.vanlengen
craig.vanlengen

"An excellent article by Martin Kaste for" The hyperlink refers to the previous H-1B report by the GAO.

Charles Bundy
Charles Bundy

unrealistic expectations. The main unrealistic expectation is they think there is such a thing as an ongoing free lunch (something for nothing or very little.) Hence H1B visas exist as a technology smorgasbord. Towards this end job-ads are designed to further the misconception that there aren't qualified U.S. citizens to do those jobs. These can be summed up by the want-ads looking for 5 years of experience with a technology that came out two years ago. See, we can't fill this position no matter how many U.S. citizens we interview! I don't know how [ianh] defines hefty salary for their Irish friends but that isn't really the issue. The issue is that pay for H1B workers is less than what an American would receive doing the same work. And the system is in a bad feedback loop rewarding H1B placement firms to bring in these lower wage workers. My question is have companies spilled these tactics over to other parts of their workforce? Is that why wages are stagnant compared to executive level pay?

gipit33
gipit33

Say what's really the problem. (Cause you'll be called Anti-Indian) But we Know the problem is coming from a country next to Pakistan that under cuts our labor.

phani.rocks
phani.rocks

@gouthamsn You have answered your questions my friend. If you are sitting with people who doesn't know basics, then you are probably at the wrong place, which you should have identified it I believe. Don't try to hide your stupidity or greediness or whatever in the means of an immigration.  The whole problem here we are talking about is which stupids needs to picked up for the job, I dont think any US personnel have problem with the intellectuals. 

gouthamsn
gouthamsn

@skyrider1320 I agree with most of your comments. But US still needs, maybe 10% of Indians.. The ones who are qualified enough to work with proper companies. Not the service sector. The Indians in Google, FB, Microsoft are good. Anyways, even my job sure can be done by any local. And I am not too happy that the "specialized" skill of mine is not being used. I sure do have potential to do the jobs for which you can't find a local. But ease if getting a job and money exists in the crap I do. So, all I can say is sorry!

whatistrue
whatistrue

@skyrider1320You may not be a racist. But your hatred is out-shined only by your envy. I agree there are some unscrupulous consulting companies that exploit Indian labor and function more like body shoppers. We have to find a way to deal with that problem.

Every country has a right to protect its jobs just as it would protect its resources. The US definitely has laws in place to deter downward pressure on American wages due to foreign workers. Problem is, like others have pointed out here, their very poor implementation (which may b deliberate). 

Going by the high number of unfilled high-tech positions (companies cannot afford to sit on vacant positions just because they need a cheep worker), the US definitely needs high-tech works. QA testers and Bus analysts are not necessarily the shortage areas and should not be filled by a H1B. Definitely not the hotel managers and laudromat staff. 

Also, today's H1b's will be tomorrows citizens. This kind of malarkey is not good for them either. Meaning you need to enlist their support and fight for their rights as well. Good luck with that if you want to taunt them and call them names. 

How badly anyone speaks the english language has nothing to do with how smart they are. The best GA's I had in school were all chinese who spoke bad english!

Also, business are there to make a profit for their shareholders. They are not meant to be flagships of patriotism. From the way you described the work ethics of a h1b, you have to now show me one employer who will not  want to hire them.

skyrider1320
skyrider1320

@nanguneri  why are you getting so worked up?  Are we sending you home? Not now, but soon we will have you sent - lock, stock and barrel. Go back to Brownland.

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@nanguneri It's not all "US companies", conman. It's InfoSys, Wipro, Tata, etc - all of which are Indian companies. In addition Pepsi, Adobe and up until recently Citibank had an Indian CEO also. Indians are conducting a systematic agenda of racism and professional apartheid where they are deliberately excluding white Americans from all IT jobs and everyone knows it. Your long-winded screen does not hide the facts: that you were all supposed to go home in 2002 after Y2K, you were only supposed to be here temporarily, but in fact, you are now here by the millions and have taken over. The reason that the author has been receiving so many emails from Americans on how to get hired in tech is because you people are here excluding us.

Americans invented IT long before Indians ever set foot in USA. You aren't needed here. In fact, you are harming our economy.

And now it is time for you to go.

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@ashokathegreat From 1978-1998 IT was 98% white American males. Bell Labs where Dennis Ritchie (not Dennis Ritchies, genius) and Ken Thompson invented the C programming language was taken over by an Indian national (Arun Netravalli) who promptly flooded the place with Indians and cleaned it out. Bell Labs has since closed its doors and has been turned into a shopping mall thanks to "genius Indians". Stop the lies. Multiculturalism is a recent phenomenon - only in the past 15 years mainly because Indian conmen like you need America in order to stay employed. You people are destroying everything while running around claiming IT has always been full of Indians.

Stop the lies from India, Inc. and NASSCOM and deport these TEMPORARY GUEST WORKERS who never seem to go home.

skyrider1320
skyrider1320

@ashokathegreat  Spare us the BS. You  guys just can not find work in India - as for the "6 figure salary"that one bragged about, being on a H1B, we know how it works, For a mere 60 salary, the so called "IT wizards" work 80 to 100 hours a week even here in the US, taking work home (By the way, I have seen them myself, so please spare me the lecture of that being an isolated case).


You guys screwed up the labor market by underselling yourselves to Indian body shoppers like Infosys and Wipro.  When we come full circle, we won't need you (and this is not the personal "You" or singular in any sense. India needs to find work for it's people........... India needs to be ashamed that it sends its people to the middle east (Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc), to Europe and the US, because there are no jobs available there.

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@ashokathegreat I lived and worked in Silicon Valley for 16 years writing software including at Apple and Sony. I've seen how Indians come over and live 20 to a 1-room apartment as they all clean out our companies and send the $ home as fast as they possibly can.

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@ashokathegreat Back in the 90s before any of you conmen came to America, America's tech costs were high and the US economy was booming. An economy is more than just companies, genius, and as somone who agreed to go home in 2002 after Y2K was over why are you here still lecturing us on how to run our economy? India is unable to even build enough toilets for itself and you're here telling us how to run the greatest economy in the world? Get out and stay out. You people have been a total disaster for the US.

skyrider1320
skyrider1320

@Dynamo1234  OK so you get a 6 figure salary - IN YOUR DREAMS.  Wake up and come to reality land. What have you brought to the table for that fabulous salary? How many patents do you hold? How many research papers have you presented?  


No we do not want the H1B regime to get better. We want the H1B category gone. It is as simple as that.

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@Dynamo1234 And what innovations exactly have you brought to the US economy? Can you name them?

We all know H-1B is a communist International Socialism program to keep unemployable Indians in jobs they otherwise would never have.

The US economy can not take much more of millions of free handouts to a useless country like India.

Alvord
Alvord

@Dynamo1234 H1-Bs are slaved to the company that sponsored their visa.  They can't easily change jobs like an American. The also get paid less than an American.  As an American, I can change employers anytime it suits me.  H1-Bs have two choices.  Keep working for the slave master that sponsored their work visa or go back to India within 30 days.    I know Indians whose employers increased their salary by 50% once they got U.S. residency and achieved mobility within the U.S. job market.  H1-B is tech slavery.

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@JohnOfStony "The Capitalists of the world and their governments, in pursuit of conquest of the Soviet market, will close their eyes to the indicated higher reality and thus will turn into deaf mute blindmen. They will extend credits, which will strengthen for us the Communist Party in their countries and giving us the materials and technology we lack, they will restore our military industry, indispensable for our future victorious attacks on our suppliers. In other words, they will labor for the preparation for their own suicide."

- Vladimir Lenin

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@lewis2005 And there is a Robert Reich video on YouTube with him saying "We need to make sure these jobs don't go to white male construction workers".

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

The people running the recruitment firms, found it and hid it. You can't have your cake and eat it. For some to realise the aemrican dream, many have to have foreign nightmares. One of those be careful what you wish for conundrums...

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@BillGates_z Because it's not a good idea to give wealth and tech to foreign countries who hate us and want to attack us. We did that in the 1930s with Japan and Germany and WW2 resulted. It's called Trading With Enemies and is illegal under US Federal law.

Chilidog67
Chilidog67

Lots of other folks in the same boat. Secretarial, HR, and Finance Sector jobs are also routinely farmed out to outsourcers. Manufacturing is pratically non-existent in the US these days. A friend of mine is a forensic accountant; at one time she managed about 30 people, most of them local. A couple years ago her job was to explain to them how they had to train their Indian replacments or leave now and get no severance. By the way it's not a crime to say Indian; I don't blame India for any of this, they're just using our stupid systems.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

Because the problem is actually the "profit now, who cares about later" attitude in the C-suites. The Indians wouldn't be under-cutting our labor if they weren't given the chance.

ashokathegreat
ashokathegreat

@Wakjob2 Mr. genius, Y2k was in 2000 not 2002. Seems like your mental ability got stuck at that year. 

ashokathegreat
ashokathegreat

@Wakjob2@ashokathegreat

Hi Mr. "know it all" IDIOT. YOU ARE MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF. Thanks for saving my time. I don't have to waste time responding to your stupid racial and biased comment. Please read what I wrote above before making a comment. I said "THERE ARE NOT MANY DENNIS RITCHIES LEFT IN THIS WORLD" I pluralized a proper noun and represented Dennis Ritchie as a class of people rather than a person. And by the way, I don't even agree with the concept that having knowledge of English makes someone genius. Language and accents are in no way a judgment on intelligence. So, stop this bullshit and accept the reality.

dssr16
dssr16

@skyrider1320 @ashokathegreat can US stop selling it products in INDIA ..PEPSI, COKE, P&G, HEINZ, etc. and all US IT companies...60 salary is average good enough in India to live and 80/100 here is better don't exaggerate that 10 per room..what ever we are taking back to India is after paying taxes here....it will be ok that when you need some work done you will find the way of getting it at cheap rates and when companies do that you have a problem...and you call it cheap labor as company was not willing to pay you for your extra comforts...all organizations operate for profit..if they cant you will have zero jobs ...We go to Saudi , Kuwait for living and not for petrol and bossing ..and we know what you people do there..

ashokathegreat
ashokathegreat

@skyrider1320 I am not in the BS business. If you are, why dont you shove it up.  If you don't believe the IT job market scenario in India, take a trip to India and visit the IT companies. Indian IT companies are struggling to find quality resources because of demand. And stop the american bullshit about body shopping. If you think someone is going to pay you 100k for running a mainframe script, forget about it. IT used to be a niche field in 90's but it is no more. Same as any other profession. In ancient period, blacksmiths were the most sought after professionals. Hope you dont complain about that. And btw America is even losing its primacy as a software market.  I have seen Indian IT companies from Japan, South East Asia, middle east, south africa to Europe. 

technoman21
technoman21

@AlvordEither you are drunk or are doing drugs. H1B holders are not enslaved to the company that they work for and they do not get paid less than Americans. I am on H1B visa. I have 2 MS and get paid more than some American colleagues in my team. H1B holders pay taxes. Get your facts right. 

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@Chilidog67

Tech | 7/23/2012 @ 9:30AM |98,863 views The End of Chinese Manufacturing and Rebirth of U.S. Industry Vivek Wadhwa, Contributor

There is great concern about China’s real-estate and infrastructure bubbles.  But these are just short-term challenges that China may be able to spend its way out of. The real threat to China’s economy is bigger and longer term: its manufacturing bubble.

By offering subsidies, cheap labor, and lax regulations and rigging its currency, China was able to seduce American companies to relocate their manufacturing operations there. Millions of American jobs moved to China, and manufacturing became the underpinning of China’s growth and prosperity. But rising labor costs, concerns over government-sponsored I.P. theft, and production time lags are already causing companies such as Dow Chemicals, Caterpillar, GE, and Ford to start moving some manufacturing back to the U.S. from China. Google recently announced that its Nexus Q streaming media player would be made in the U.S., and this put pressure on Apple to start following suit.

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@NickNielsen Or threatening us with nuclear missiles that Bill Clinton allowed to be sold to India and China when he signed the Loral and Hughes export waivers on our rocket tech to India and China in 1997. Both countries had the bomb for 40 years but no way to deliver it. Until ol' Bill Jeff, that is. Why do you suppose "globalization" coincided exactly with the same time as the export waivers were signed?

Wakjob2
Wakjob2

@Hans Schmidt India is the world's parasite - having given nothing to the world save chess, but wanting to take everything. Every country these people go to collapses. "Loot and remit" as they say in India.

Hans Schmidt
Hans Schmidt

America First. Lets take care of our own.If we don't have enough educated Americans, then improve the educational system. The corporate critters care only about the bottom line. They will take everything they can get. We must define their limits by law. LOL

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