DIY

Texas Law requires computer repair techs to be Private Investigators

If you repair computers in Texas and come in contact with data, you could be breaking the law. Unless, that is, you are also a licensed Private Investigator.

If you repair computers in Texas and come in contact with data, you could be breaking the law. Unless, that is, you are also a licensed Private Investigator.

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Unbelievable but true, in 2007 Texas decided that anyone employed as a computer repair technician needed to also have a Private Investigator's license if they take any action that the government would consider "an investigation." Because the law is so broadly worded, that could literally mean that I could replace your hard drive but not repair it. Nor could I retrieve your data. In order to comply with the law and obtain a PI license, I would have to quit supporting computers for three years and serve an apprenticeship under a licensed PI or attain a criminal justice degree. Either way, that would be several years away from technology that refreshes itself every 18 months or so.

According to the author of the law, state Representative Joe Driver, R-Garland, technicians are misinterpreting the law. Driver told the Houston Chronicle that the law was sought by the private security industry and would not apply to people who do nothing but repair hardware. It would only apply to those who retrieve data for the purposes of analysis to create a report for a third party.

According to Driver, a current class action lawsuit against the Texas Private Security Board is nothing more than a publicity stunt on the part of the Institute for Justice. But Matt Miller of the Institute for Justice says that the law is so vaguely worded that it could be enforced broadly.

The Texas Private Security Board has interpreted the law as being "data retrieval for a potential civil or criminal matter." According to Miller, that could apply to a technician searching for the source of a virus, parents seeking to find out the names of the people their child emails or messages, or people employed by companies to determine what employees are doing on their work computers during working hours. The result of any of that kind of data retrieval and analysis could be considered potentially usable in a civil or criminal matter.

I look at it from the standpoint of having been there, done that. I have found all manner of things on a client's PC in the course of doing a seemingly unrelated job. I have, as a part of my job, been required to provide detailed reports on user Internet activity to seniors. Probably a good thing I don't work in Texas.

Another aspect of the law that should also be considered is that anyone in violation can be subject to criminal penalties up to a year in jail and a $4,000 fine in addition to civil penalties of up to $10,000. And that doesn't just apply to the technician. Any consumer who knowingly uses an unlicensed company faces the same penalties.

In my opinion, the Institute for Justice is taking the right path. By forcing attention on this law, hopefully the end result will be clarification of who may do what. Perhaps this time through, Mr. Driver will consider asking an average computer technician what kinds of work they do and possibly gain consensus on what should be acceptable and what should not. I can understand the Texas Private Security Board wanting to act to protect people's privacy but I believe that this law may be a step too far.

Share your thoughts. In the course of your day would a law like this impact you? How?

Thanks to OnTheRopes for pointing this out!

113 comments
maxooi80
maxooi80

This is very informative post that i found. we can know more Texas law. Thanks for great post.Awesome!!!Laptop Computer Repair

bestspi
bestspi

The Texas Department of Public Safety's Private Security Bureau website was just updated, at http://www.txdps. state.tx. us/psb/AgendaIte mXIV.pdf, to clarify that only computer repair technicians who are seeking computer data to use as evidence in a criminal or civil hearing must be licensed by the Bureau under the Texas Private Security Act (Chapter 1702, Texas Occupations Code). The update is entitled "Minutes of July 23, 2008 Private Security Board Meeting, Agenda Item XIV, Regarding Computer Repair Technicians." The portion of the 23 July Private Security Board minutes that are now considered policy of the Private Security Bureau when enforcing the forensic computer repair issue is as follows: "(a) Information obtained through the review and analysis of the content of computer-based data with the intent to use such data a evidence in a criminal or civil hearing must be obtained and furnished by an investigations company license under the Act or by an individual exempted from licensure under ??1702.323 (a) of the Act. (b) The repair or maintenance of a computer does not require licensing under the Act, even if during the course of the repair or maintenance the person discovers information described by ??1702.104 (a) (1)." The Texas Occupations Code can be found online at http://tlo2. tlc.state. tx.us/statutes/ oc.toc.htm.

TheChas
TheChas

It sounds to me like some person with political connections got caught with porn on his computer when he took it in for repair. It might even be a desire to keep company or even government IT staff from searching users computers. You could interpret this law as extending personal privacy into company owned computers and corporate databases. Looking at this from a positive aspect, it does make sense to require someone collecting data from a computer, hard drive, or database for use as evidence to have training in the proper collection of evidence. What the computer repair industry needs though is a shield law that protects repair techs should they find and report questionable material on a computer they are repairing. Chas

dogknees
dogknees

OK, what does that statement mean? Data on a PC is either a magnetic domain on a disk, or a charge on a capacitor in a RAM chip. As far as I know, one cannot actually "come into contact" with either of these things. Unless you're opening up drives, removing the platters and rubbing them against yourself, you aren't in contact with the data on a disk. If you attempted to come into contact with data held in RAM, it's going to be gone before you get your skin anywhere near it. Regards

maecuff
maecuff

I'm just crazy about you!

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

I think the intent is that anybody who does forensic data analysis must be a private investigator. But that second paragraph reads like a tech can be nailed if he tells Mom and Dad that yes, little Johnny has been visiting porn sites. [pre]A person acts as an investigations company for the purposes of this chapter if the person: (1) engages in the business of obtaining or furnishing, or accepts employment to obtain or furnish, information related to: (B) the identity, habits, business, occupation, knowledge, efficiency, loyalty, movement, location, affiliations, associations, transactions, acts, reputation, or character of a person; [/pre] Edit: formatting

maxwell edison
maxwell edison

The law, in a nutshell, is intended to cover people who retrieve and analyze data that is to be subsequently used in an investigation or litigation. The class-action lawsuit on behalf of computer technicians across the Lone Star state was filed by the fledgling advocacy group, [i]the Institute for Justice Texas Chapter. [/i] The Bill: http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/80R/billtext/html/HB02833F.htm (Good luck understanding it. Do a find for the word [i]computer[/i] to narrow your read.) The author of the bill, Rep. Joe Driver, R-Garland, called the lawsuit a publicity stunt to call attention to the group. I'd go a step further. I'd also bet a dollar to dirt that there's some other provision in Texas law that pays the fees of class-action lawyers who file class-action suits against the state. Lawyers, laws and government - they keep making more and more problems for everybody, but people insist on having more and more of the same. [sarcasm] I think there should be a law that demands half of all the existing laws be repealed, and that no new laws could be enacted until that time. It would be up to each state legislative body (and the federal one as well) to spend the next several legislative sessions bickering over which ones to repeal! That might get even me to watch C-Span! [/sarcasm] On second thought, maybe it wasn't so sarcastic!

LocoLobo
LocoLobo

It seems like new laws always leave room for misinterpretation. One way or the other. A long time ago I read something about civil law in Babylon. My memory's pretty fuzzy but something about prostitutes being required to wear a veil (or not wear one?). The punishment for noncompliance was pretty severe. Cutting off your nose or something like that. But the punishment if you saw someone breaking the law and not reporting it was the same! I probably got it muddled, but it struck me at the time. Welcome to Humanity 101. The more things change, the more things stay the same.

mjd420nova
mjd420nova

As a matter or routine service, I have backed up a users data and restored it to replacement drives. I those cases, I could care less what is being backedup and restored, that's not within the scope of the service I provide. Many contracts I service have their own IT departments and it is their responsiblity to make any determination whether the user has violated any of the companies IT policies. AS I read the law, it would apply to those types of INVESTIGATIONS as to whether a user has illegal copies of software, kiddie porn photos or illegal types of data on their hard drives. Not the kind of service I provide. Unless the hard drive has suffered a serious failure, I am usually able to repair the drive, by replacing drive conrol cards or interfacing cables and contollers, or by a number of heating, freezing or changing physical orientation methods and backing the data up before a failure becomes unreoverable, making replacement the only method or returning a unit back to operation and loading backup software. I have no desire to seek a PI license to continue in the service industry and do not read this as a requirement within my job scope.

Tig2
Tig2

This is definitely one to file under "what stupid thing will they do next?" A 2007 Texas law states that anyone handling data analysis and reporting has to also be licensed as a Private Investigator. This may be a case where intent was not clearly communicated in the wording of the law and therefore leaves too many broad definitions and allows for poor conclusions. If that is the case, it is probably a good thing that the Texas Chapter of Institute for Justice is following the law up. If you work in IT, you have probably been exposed to client data. What would you think if you could not continue to do your job until you became licensed as a PI? Or would you risk the fines and jail time by not complying?

jdclyde
jdclyde

I am sure GG could tell us plenty about how an amateur will destroy the evidence trail by not knowing the proper procedures. I know I would want NOTHING to do with collecting data for legal purposes because I have not been trained in the legal aspects, both to keep the evidence intact AND keep myself safe from accusations of planting the evidence. I would bet more than one person had illegal content on their systems, but escaped prosecution because of legal loopholes due the the collection of data.

Tig2
Tig2

With saying that someone who is doing forensic data analysis should be a PI. It's the second paragraph that is causing the angst. The law is, at the least, poorly written.

TheChas
TheChas

Max, Are lawyers not just another part of the free enterprise system? Even lobbyists are part of the exercise of free speech and free enterprise. How are lawyers any different from the oil companies, the superstar CEOs, or the Walmarts of the world? Are you suggesting that if you do not approve of the outcome of someones exercise of free enterprise that their activities should be limited and restricted? As to taking laws off the books, that would be quite easy at least for the first few passes. There are many laws that are functionally obsolete. It would take a good law clerk but a few hours to round up 100 or more laws that could be repealed in a simple up or down vote. Chas

Tig2
Tig2

I don't know if a class action lawsuit is the best way to address this poorly written law or not. But the fact is that all Driver would reiterate is that it didn't apply to people who work with HARDWARE. My experience is that if you work with hardware, inevitably you work with software. Any one of us could find ourselves in a position where we are dealing with a person's data that may be used in a court. I recall having to go through a person's computer to try to find files I could dump to make room for an application. This was a corporate computer and I was acting under my supervisor's direction. I found a heavy weight file of porn that I was instructed to delete. I was then told to leave a copy of the Corporate Use Agreement on the guy's chair. I know that they started watching him much more closely after that. I think that there is good rationale to go back to this law and clarify it's intent. I know if I worked in Texas, I would not be comfortable working as a Support Tech. Edit- Firefox went batty on me.

maxwell edison
maxwell edison

Any guesses on how the courts will award the attorney fees? http://www.weblocator.com/attorney/tx/law/b14.html#txb141200 Judges and lawyers - one in the same? I'll give 10-1 (on any wager up to $10) that these lawyers will make out quite nicely. Any takers? Edited: I'd hate to potentially lose $1,000, so I changed my wager limit from $100 to $10.

gjsterner
gjsterner

Just yesterday I received a request from a client to retrieve all e-mails for several people and several topics from their e-mail server archives in response to a court order. I had to advise the client of the new Texas law and suggested they hire a licensed PI. I even gave them a copy of the law to highlight the requirement. They immediately terminated my contract with them for ?breach of contract? for refusing to retrieve the data. I?m wondering if can now sue Re. Davis for passing a law that has caused ?restraint of trade??

bowdenj
bowdenj

A similar law was passed in Michigan, effective May 28. It's an update of an existing law that requires licensure for private investigators, and expands the definition to include those who conduct electronic investigations. There were a couple of driving forces behind the bill. One was to make sure that anyone doing digital forensics also has training in evidence gathering; there have been several instances of very good tech people inadvertently destroying evidence or rendering it otherwise inadmissable in a case. The other is to make sure there is a way to regulate the activities of off-duty, retired, or other former law enforcement personnel who were hanging out a shingle and misleading their clients re: their actual affiliations. I don't know that anyone realized how the IT folks were going to howl over this one - a huge and really unfortunate oversight. Overall, I don't think it's a bad idea to have some kind of regulation of digital forensics; it won't keep the morons out completely, but at some point it will make it harder for someone to offer services that they're really not qualified to perform. And the new licensure guidelines are broad enough that they probably won't exclude anyone who's actually qualified to do this work; it most directly effects consultants, but there are exemptions written in for people who are just doing their job for their current employer. The main complaint I have about the Michigan law is that there was NO grace period before it took effect. I don't think there was anything resembling sufficient notice to the IT community, and not much gathered by way of input from them. It's been rolled out with a minimum of fanfare and people are freaking out trying to figure out if they're committing a felony just by going to work in the morning. This was passed into law so quickly there was no time to set up reciprocal agreements with states like Texas, so it limits the ability of Michigan businesses to do work across state lines. And finally, the department in charge of implementation hasn't thought through a lot of issues, such as which certifications are acceptable, what constitutes the beginning of an 'investigation' as opposed to routine monitoring, how 3rd party service providers are effected, and so on. There are a lot of holes to be filled in and a lot of people are freaking out. We did a webinar on this recently and moderating the questions was like being in an online rugby game. In the meantime, I suspect there are a lot of people out there who don't realize there's even a law to be broken, much less realize that they're breaking it.

Ben Iron Damper
Ben Iron Damper

Wheres Oz? I can't believe that POS Canadian isn't all over this thread.

wizardofJ
wizardofJ

from this web site - http://blogs.chron.com/techblog/archives/2008/07/bill_author_computer_techs_dont_need_a_privat.html ... state Rep. Joe Driver, R-Garland, the author of House Bill 2833, said the computer technicians are misinterpreting his law. Driver said a lawsuit filed for the computer technicians last week in Travis County district court by the Institute for Justice Texas Chapter was nothing more than a publicity stunt intended to bring attention to a new advocacy organization. The law says anyone who retrieves data from a computer, analyzes it and makes a report to a third party must obtain a private investigator's license. Such a license requires either a degree in criminal justice or a three-year apprenticeship under a licensed private investigator. Failure to obtain a license is punishable by up to a year in jail and a $4,000 fine plus possible additional civil penalties of up to $10,000. Institute for Justice attorney Matt Miller said the law does not apply to hardware repair. But he said he believes it would apply to anyone who is hired by a parent who wants to know what Web sites their child is visiting or to a technician hired by a company to explore employee use of computers at work. Driver said a technician who is doing nothing more than retrieving data from a crashed hard drive would not be affected by the law. He said it would only apply to people who dig deeply into the data and analyze it to get "deep into people's personal lives."

AV .
AV .

I don't live in Texas and I'm thankful for that. I surely don't want this madness to spread to other states. Personally, I don't want to be a PI. I wouldn't pay to become one either. If they pay, I'd probably have to or be out of a job unless I moved out of Texas. What a crock! Just another reason why I'll never move to Texas. AV

tcavadias
tcavadias Staff

makes me wonder what they define as "Computer Repair Tech"? If I live in another state and do some minor "repair" work remotely on someones computer who lives in Texas does that mean I must follow this law? I wonder what is behind this law? As with a lot of the dumb laws around, it means someone did something dumb that we now have to have a law for it or a warning (like them warnings that says - don't use your hair dryer in the shower - who was the wiseguy that did this, sued, won and now we have this warning on our hair dryers) -Tammy :-)

maecuff
maecuff

I was just getting ready to respond to some 'graham' dude and the post is freaking gone. As well as Nick's response... I'm pretty sure, and I can say the post dripped with vitriol and ignorance (Not Nicks response), even so.,.it wasn't spam

neilb
neilb

and yet you STILL come out with badly written laws like the one described here. What on earth are all these lawyers doing? they can't ALL be chasing ambulances! Can they? You obviously need the entry qualifications for the schools that train your legislators to include minimum criteria for "common sense" considerably higher than you are currently applying. Happily, we can pass stupid laws without any where NEAR as many lawyers. :D

Dr Dij
Dr Dij

requires someone pump gas for you!

ajaxnii
ajaxnii

I'm in TX and this is the first time that i recall anything being said about this law. I work for a Financial institution and just now talked to one of our lawyers on this and they are like this is a sticky subject.

L-Mo
L-Mo

As a tech I often retrieve data for users within my company. BTW, I also work for a law firm. When someone requests anything for a trial it goes to a seperate department that will complete the task and be ready to go to court if summonsed. If I'm now going to be asked to hold even more credentials and pass more hurdles to do my job then employers better get ready to pay more. I would comply solely because I have invested way too much time and effort to loose my credentials or position in the industry.

Ed Woychowsky
Ed Woychowsky

I would never go to go to Texas. Nothing good has come out of Texas in the last hundred years.

Tig2
Tig2

I only just heard about the update and have been preparing a blog on it. Evidently, this person wants to interject before the press have an opportunity to do so. Near as I can tell, the facts are as represented here. That doesn't mean that the whole story is presented, simply those facts that are a part of public record. The fact that this individual joined TR for the sole purpose of updating the story makes me wonder if there are other things in the background that I should be investigating.

maxwell edison
maxwell edison

You asked, [i]Are lawyers not just another part of the free enterprise system?[/i] The answer is a resounding no. Lawyers are officers of the court. The court is a vital function of one of our branches of government. Although the structure of the attorney's private practice does function in the free market system, since they're officers of the court and take an oath to uphold the constitution, they're also beholden to the principles therein - over and above their free market rights. [i]How are lawyers any different from the oil companies, the superstar CEOs, or the Wal-Marts of the world ..... the lobbyists as ..... part of the exercise of free speech and free enterprise?[/i] None of those are sworn officers of the court, and none of those are vital to the function of one branch of our government. All three branches of our federal government (and most - if not all - state governments): the executive, the legislative, and judicial branches, are too big, too powerful, too bloated, too inefficient, and too expensive. All of them, in my opinion, could stand to be trimmed-down by a significant amount.

maxwell edison
maxwell edison

I'm saying that this story should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt, considering what got it started. There's absolutely no way the average computer tech would possibly be seen as violating this law. It's no more than opportunist class-action lawyers looking to make a name for themselves and some dollars for their bank accounts. That's what I'm saying - no more, no less. At least, that's my opinion. On the laws comment, it was in reference to [i]poorly written laws[/i]. There are simply too many laws, ones poorly written or otherwise - more than just those that are functionally obsolete. Edit: To make my point, I'm sure you're familiar with that old saying, [i]ignorance of the law is no excuse[/i]. Well, considering the number and complexity of all laws on all levels, ignorance should be an excuse, since there are SO MANY of them. The only way not to be ignorant is to be a lawyer - and even then, one couldn't possibly know all of them. Another edit: Should ignorance of the law, in some cases, be a valid excuse? Yet another edit: And there are plenty of class action laws that are either poorly written and/or should be repealed. Okay, one more edit: Although many aspects of the legal system are, and should be, driven by the free market system, I consider it outside the realm of free markets in totality. I don't think anyone should be forced to pay for justice or freedom. (I'm sure you'll find things about that comment to throw back at me.) Our legal system is so screwed up, too large, and too expensive - and it's a guaranteed freedom as defined in our Bill of Rights. That's just not right.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

I'd be willing to make an exception in this case. That's a helluva choice you faced: breaking the law or breach of contract.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

That may be the intent, but the paragraph that applies is so ambiguous that it is no stretch for me (and I am [u]not[/u] a lawyer!) to read it as requiring that the PC tech who tells Mom and Dad that little Johnny has been visiting porn sites must be a licensed PI.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

My favorites? On the bag of peanuts: Warning! May contain nuts. On a chainsaw: Do not attempt to stop chain with hands.

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

Which way did he go? Which way did he go? I thought I was hallucinating or something. :| There's a scary thought. I'm glad you said something.

tcavadias
tcavadias Staff

insulting, rude and uncalled for -Tammy :-)

AV .
AV .

Money and power. A first year associate fresh out of law school can make over $100k per year. What other occupation has that earning potential right out of the gate? Being a lawyer is a stepping stone to politics, money and money people in the US. Many lawyers become legislators at sometime in their career. Its an easy transition if they want it. They make lots of contacts in high places. I've worked with lawyers for about 15 years in IT. Lawyers in the US are a very dedicated, hard-working bunch, but they're not all good, unfortunately. AV

jdclyde
jdclyde

is that it is primarily lawyers that run for office. RICH lawyers. And we wonder why they are so out of touch with real people? And some of our population are stupid/gullible enough to think that just because they put a certain letter in front of their name that they care about more than gaining and maintaining power and control. And to take it one step worse, we have stupid people that think "lawmakers" (congress) are not doing their job if they are not adding new laws all the time.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

Literacy is not a prerequisite for election to public office.

Tig2
Tig2

When I researched this story, I was appalled that the law passed as it is written. The Institute for Justice is doing the right thing by challenging the law and (hopefully) forcing clarification of the points raised. There are some good lawyers out there. There are even some good legislators. But we certainly haven't shown ourselves well with this particular legislation. *sigh* It never ends, does it?

AV .
AV .

I live in NJ and I'm more than happy to not pump my own gas. I think its a great service for those who do not want to pump. AV

Tig2
Tig2

That Oregon does too. But seriously- do you want Magnum PI fixing your PC???

Tig2
Tig2

You and people like you are the reason I wrote the story. The ability to broadly interpret the law has been a risk for about a year now and yet has not been widely disseminated. I believe that is a key reason that the Institute for Justice has come along with the intent to challenge the law. I'll be watching for updates. As I get them, I will post them.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

Dint there used to be more here? ?:|

Tig2
Tig2

What if they pulled the same shenanigans in the place you call home? And besides, they raise very good steak in Texas!

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

Damn, imagine getting a measure on his temporary IQ on the way back from the pub. I remember trying some stupid stuff but taking the iron to my uniform while wearing it was never one of them.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

One of my additional duties in the USAF was as a Safety NCO. The safety office used to get monthly messages from the Navy's Chief of Safety about some of the more stupid stuff sailors did. One swab didn't have time enough to iron his whites before the liberty boat left, so he put them on and fired up the iron. Didn't make his liberty 'cause he was in sick bay...

tcavadias
tcavadias Staff

as that is what they are - caused by a person suing because their coffee was too hot and it didn't have a warning marked "hot". Some other goodies... curling iron - do not use while sleeping Keyboard not detected. Press F1 to continue Iron - Never iron clothes on the body. (I want to know who the wise guy was that ironed the clothes while still wearing them?) Geee.. what ever happen to common sense... -Tammy :-)

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

you all get out of bed in the morning and can look at your selves in the mirror, I mean since when do Rhesus own mirrors? BTW Mae, "Purple headed yogurt spitter" made me swallow my gum by accident laughing. And to keep in the spirit... http://tinyurl.com/lsgmu

rgraham
rgraham

I am sorry about my previous post (that was deleted). I get so tired of hearing rude comments like this one from Ed Woychowsky: Personally I would never go to go to Texas. Nothing good has come out of Texas in the last hundred year. It seems that people think everyone and everything in Texas is messed up because George Bush is from Texas. Comment's such as Ed's have no basis or truth. Children make comments like Ed's when they are jealous of something another child has they they don't have, so I can only assume that his comments are based entirely on jealousy!

rgraham
rgraham

I am sorry about my previous post (that was deleted). I get so tired of hearing rude comments like this one from Ed Woychowsky: Personally I would never go to go to Texas. Nothing good has come out of Texas in the last hundred year. It seems that people think everyone and everything in Texas is messed up because George Bush is from Texas. Comment's such as Ed's have no basis or truth. Children make comments like Ed's when they are jealous of something another child has they they don't have, so I can only assume that his comments are based entirely on jealousy!

santeewelding
santeewelding

That was a way to put it: a work in progress. And your dislike of politics, here the polity of dispute, a work in progress. This makes of The Good a changing thing -- a work in progress and disputants all, including you. That guesswork guides you, may instead you extend a hand, upwind if you must. Explain that you cut along a line you don't see according to a pattern you don't have without a prayer of getting it right, instead of an empty place.

maecuff
maecuff

I just can't bear the thought of you being disappointed. You purple headed yogurt slinger..

neilb
neilb

I'd forgotten. The kind thought - calling me a tosser - IS appreciated. :x

maecuff
maecuff

You probably don't recall this, but YOU are the one that suggested that 'tosser' was a good substitute for wanker.. I was just trying to make you feel at home.

The 'G-Man.'
The 'G-Man.'

Impressed, you thought it before even opening the post! Well done!

neilb
neilb

It took him an awfully long time to work it out. I was beginning to believe that I had overestimated him - and I didn't think that was possible. As for your post. Tosser? Lacks a bit of subtlety I reckon. Tell you, I could eat alphabet soup and [b]sh:t[/b] better posts. Neil :) (Not, alas, an original but one of my favourite quotes)

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

If I wanted that, I could turn on the TV and choose just about any channel except History, Discovery, or NatGeo! ;)

tcavadias
tcavadias Staff

you all our hopeless.. just hopeless I tell ya! :p ooops I better delete myself... -Tammy :-)

maecuff
maecuff

but really, found the KY comment funny.

jdclyde
jdclyde

I didn't know there were Republicans in Kentucky... :0

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

Offensive and/or rude? Are those two the same? I think so. I'm a dummass. :( :_| Honesty can be perceived as rude though too. That doesn't mean people need to quit being honest no matter how dumb it may appear. I'm not sure of exactly what I'm trying to say so I'll shut up now.

maecuff
maecuff

We liberal weenies always look forward to hearing the opinion of redneck, trailer dwelling, cousin loving, knuckle dragging republicans. :)

jdclyde
jdclyde

is when people don't even realize Neil insulted them.... :D

jdclyde
jdclyde

being offended by Max. B-) I could see a "stupid liberal" getting offended everytime they look in a mirror, but oh well... :p I think it is immature to call liberal weenies "stupid".

tcavadias
tcavadias Staff

I'll look for it :-) I've been saving everyones tips, suggestions, advice, etc... All is very much appreciated and aids greatly, plus gives me a much clearer picture and insight :-) On a different note... anyone notice "Amy Winehouse" located at the bottom of the pages now? I tried to get Sonja to get Toni to dress up and dance as Amy for the next TROLOV while Sonja sings "dancing to the TR beat" :p -Tammy :-)

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

Look for a peermail message from me sometime in the near future.

maecuff
maecuff

And I WANT you to post your blather. No matter how inane or pointless it is!

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

I think that we should ALL be able to speak our minds even if it's unclear what we're trying to say. God knows I can be obscure sometimes but I still want to be able to post my blather.

maxwell edison
maxwell edison

[i].....can't think of just one time.....[/i] Neither can I.

maecuff
maecuff

You lost me at the end. Should have left the 'splain' part out. I think people contributing SHOULD be able to voice an opinion about the ways things are done. Because, really, if we ('we' being all humans who participate at TR) aren't participating, then there wouldn't be much point to TR, would there?

tcavadias
tcavadias Staff

after having a discussion with a few folks to understand their point of views, I apologize. As mentioned to them I'm still learning here (this is me in beta mode), with that, I ask folks if I'm being too easy too hard, send me an email and let me know. Forgive me? -Tammy :-) PS: I've actually never been to Michigan but I'm sure like most states it has its good and bad points.

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

Stop it. My sides are killing me. I can honestly say that I can't think of just one time you've been offensive and/or rude.

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

I'll let it slide. Since we've gone to our typical off-topic posting...I'm with Mae. A lot of posts are rude, insulting and uncalled for but you can say that about much of life too. Can't we just deal with it in our own way or is there a new set of standards being applied to make a post 'good' and 'acceptable'? Yuk! Hell, there are a few long-time regulars that are regularly worse, in my opinion, than old Tex there was. Some of the rants are informative and entertaining, even if you're just laughing at the idiot's rant. Some regulars are tiresome, rude and lame but I think they've got some kind of right to be that way. Maybe I'm wrong. I didn't think Tex was that bad. I'm trying to see the reasoning behind posts and discussions being sent into oblivion but I'm having a hard time with it. Of course, you don't have to 'splain yourself to the like of me. I'm just talking to hear myself talk.

tcavadias
tcavadias Staff

... bear with me here folks.. I'm still on a learning curve regarding TR Bad Bad Bad me..now I will go to my corner :p -Tammy :-)

maxwell edison
maxwell edison

.....have I? Well, have I? Hey, stop laughing and answer! Come on, stop.....

tcavadias
tcavadias Staff

Politics and me don't mix. For some reason every time I think politics I get a very bad taste in my mouth -Tammy :-)

maecuff
maecuff

I think you're right.. All your posts ARE insulting, rude and uncalled for. You tosser.

neilb
neilb

are insulting, rude and uncalled for. Although I think that having "insulting" AND "rude" in the same sentence is superfluous. And dumb.

maecuff
maecuff

where I wasn't being flip. Doesn't happen often..but still. I didn't agree with a damn thing in that post. Not a one. We have posts about sadism, religion, politics, misogyny, abortion, sexism, showtunes. You name it. Lot's of topics that people tend to get offended over. I can't think of a single person who has been posting here for a long time that HASN'T posted SOMETHING offensive. So, that guy thinks liberal/democrats are stupid. Have you READ most of the political threads? Almost always someone says something similar. Being a liberal democrat, I find the views entertaining. Everyone isn't like me. That doesn't mean that I don't want to hear what they have to say.

tcavadias
tcavadias Staff

Ewww.. I personally like a little flavor.. Strawvberry! Now strawberry is good... with some champagne.. chocolate... Dang now I'm hungry -Tammy :-)

tcavadias
tcavadias Staff

its cold :-D But it does have a great thing..my husband's Uncle is the Head Wrestling coach for Central Michigan :D -Tammy :-)

maecuff
maecuff

are insulting, rude and uncalled for. They make this place interesting. I'd hate to see TR turn into vanilla ice cream.

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

If you can't think of anything let me give you a list.

Tig2
Tig2

You strike the heart of the problem. There is simply insufficient clarification in the verbiage of this law.

gjsterner
gjsterner

Rep. Joe Driver, R-Garland said that the law says anyone who retrieves data from a computer, analyzes it and makes a report to a third party must obtain a private investigator's license. He says that computer repair technicians are not affected however, as a computer repair technician and a systems analyst I?m often required to dig into the structure and data of a database to determine why an application is not working properly or if the database is corrupt. This also requires tracing the source of the corruption to determine if a computer hardware malfunction caused the problem or if a person had entered bad data such as special and/or control characters. In each case the customer wants a report on the overall problem plus the source of the problem; even if it is a person so the person can be either retrained or fired if they did it on purpose. Also, if an application vendor is involved then the report has to be shared with the vendor (a third party) so the vendor can add edits or correct a bug in their application. Here in Texas, this now puts me into the position of violating the law. This also means that the employee that is about to be fired now has a legal position since I?m not a licensed investigator. I don?t think that most licensed investigators have the technical skill to dig into databases so this now opens up a very sticky situation. Does my systems analyst work constitute ?computer repair??

AV .
AV .

I remember those .35 per gallon days. Lots of young, hunky guys pumped gas back then. Thats when teenagers had to work if they wanted to have money. I had a really clean windshield, always. :^0 Today the people pumping gas here in NJ are a little scary to me. Gone are the hunky young guys of the past, replaced with mostly Middle-Eastern men. As a woman, I've been insulted several times while getting gas recently. I had one attendant ask me where my children were instead of how much gas I wanted!!! Its enough to make me want to pump my own gas! Almost. :^0 AV

maxwell edison
maxwell edison

When I was a teenager, I pumped gas to make some money. When I had a choice between self serve and full service, I pumped gas to save some money. Today, when self serve is about the only option, I pump gas and it costs me a ton of money. When I pumped gas as my job, it was around .35 per gallon (probably $2.50 in today's dollars, though), I had to check the oil, check the air in the tires, and wash the windshields. However, this was the late 60s, mind you, and depending on the driver, I sometimes made sure that windshield was really, really clean!

OldER Mycroft
OldER Mycroft

And if you don't know what I'm talking about you've never driven a Ferrari. ;)

maecuff
maecuff

is, we're not getter older, we're getting bitter..

maxwell edison
maxwell edison

We're not getting older, we're getting better. (Better at what, I have no friggin' idea!)

maecuff
maecuff

The youngsters here won't get that reference. I've had people in their 30s not get my gomer pyle reference. Or sgt shultz... How did I get this old??? Damn, I'm glad I look as good as I do.

Ed Woychowsky
Ed Woychowsky

I never really get much further west than New Orleans anyway. Oysters, mmmm. :D

Ed Woychowsky
Ed Woychowsky

I'm a Liberal Rectal Flamb?. It just looks better on a bussiness card and is good for around 10K more a year. It's like the difference between VB .Net and C#. :)

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

I have to accept that they are here, but I don't have to tolerate their bullsh*t! / tolerate them, but don't accept them for the f##kwits they are. == Let's see, nice cancels nice, so that leaves... I don't have to tolerate their bullsh*t or accept them for the f##kwits they are. I'll take "complete waste of space" for $500, Alex! Edit: danged new math!

jdclyde
jdclyde

tolerate them, but don't accept them for the f##kwits they are.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

between acceptance and tolerance. I have to accept that they are here, but I don't have to tolerate their bullsh*t!

jdclyde
jdclyde

that the people that preach "tolerance" have no tolerance for anyone that disagrees with them? The word "hypocrite" regularly comes to mind.

NickNielsen
NickNielsen

They don't consider themselves a$$holes at all. They know what's best for me, can't possibly conceive of me disagreeing with them, and aren't capable of understanding why I do. edit: yep

jdclyde
jdclyde

to call liberal a$$holes a "liberal a$$holes". Just because they ARE liberal a$$holes doesn't mean it is up to you to call them the liberal a$$hole that they are. Right? After all, it is the thought that counts, and I am sure they already KNOW they are liberal a$$holes.

Tig2
Tig2

Was removed as it had no value. I read it when it was posted and agree with the PTB that removed it that there was no value there. If I want to call people liberal a$$holes, I can start another thread. :)

Ed Woychowsky
Ed Woychowsky

I'd probably move. Since Texas is out of the question and I've already done the New Jersey thing, can't say where. Although, the place will need good seafood and the occasional steak. :)