iPad

Six things laptops can learn from the iPad

Most of the leading notebook makers are planning their own tablets to respond to the iPad, but here are six things they can learn from the iPad to make their laptops better.

Apple sold 3.3 million iPads in Q2, the product's first quarter on the market. That was more than the number of MacBook laptops (2.5 million) that the company sold in Q2. Plus, the two products combined catapulted Apple from No. 7 in the global notebook market to No. 3.

Meanwhile, all of the other top five notebook vendors saw their growth slow during the same period, suggesting that the iPad cut into their sales. Will these iPad numbers be a short-term bump based on the unparalleled hype and anticipation for the product, or will it be amplified even further during the back-to-school and holiday seasons? That will be one of the most interesting trends to watch during the second half of 2010.

Nevertheless, the iPad has already sold enough units to alarm laptop makers and make them contemplate how to react. Nearly all of them are already working on competing tablets, powered by Google Android in most cases.

But, laptop makers should also look at the factors that are triggering the iPad's popularity and consider how some of those factors could be co-opted into notebooks. Here are the top six:

1. Battery life is a killer feature

When Apple first shared the technical specs of the iPad and claimed 10 hours of battery life, I rolled my eyes. Published battery life numbers rarely hold up in the real world. However, the iPad actually exceeded expectations. I've easily milked 11-12 hours of battery life out of the iPad, and others such as Walt Mossberg of The Wall Street Journal have reported the same thing.

This kind of battery performance is huge for business professionals because it untethers them from a charger for an entire business day. Whether it's for a full day of meetings or a cross-country flight, they can focus on their work without having to worry about finding a place to plug in at some point. I've see several business users state that this was their primary incentive for using the iPad.

2. Instant On changes the equation

The fact that you can simply click the iPad's power button and have it instantly awake from its sleep state and be ready to pull up a Web page, glance at a calendar, or access an email is another major plus. Compare that to dragging your laptop into a conference room, for example. Even the best laptops with Windows, Mac, or Linux take about 30 seconds to boot and then you have to log in and wait some more until the OS is ready.

You don't always want to fire up your laptop at the beginning of a meeting and leave it on because then you could get distracted or appear as if you're not paying attention to the other people in the room. But, if something comes up and you want to quickly access your information, then you want it instantaneously so that you don't have to tell the other people in the room, "Hang on for a second while I pull up that data," which can break the flow of the conversation and even make you look unprepared.

While some laptops can accomplish something similar by quickly going in and out of a sleep state when you flip the lid open or closed, this can regularly cause problems with wireless networking and other basic functionality, and tends not to be as quick as the iPad.

3. Centralize the software

The feature that made the iPad infinitely more useful for lots of different tasks is its massive platform of third party applications, which are all available in a central repository (that's the key feature) -- the Apple App Store . The App Store also serves another valuable function: All updates for iPad apps are handled there as well.

Contrast that with laptops where you can get software preloaded on your compter, buy software shrink-wrapped, or download it from the Internet, and then nearly all of the different programs have their own software updaters. It's a much more complicated and confusing process for the average user. There's no reason why a desktop/laptop OS platform can't have an app store. I recently noted that Ubuntu Linux 10.04 offers a nice step in that direction.

4. Simple interfaces are best

There's a classic children's book called Simple Pictures Are Best where a photographer is trying to do a family portrait and the family keeps wanting to try crazy things and add more stuff to the portrait and the photographer keeps repeating time and time again, "Simple pictures are best."

It's the same with a user interface. There's a natural tendency to want to keep trying to toss in more things  to satisfy lots of different use cases. But, the more discipline you can maintain, the better the UI will be. Since the iPad runs on Apple's iOS (smartphone) operating system, it is extremely limited in many ways. However, those limitations also make it self-evident to most users because it requires little to no training. People can just point and tap their way through the apps and menus.

Software makers have been attemtping simplified versions of the traditional OS interface for years, from Microsoft Bob to Windows Media Center to Apple Front Row. None of them have worked very well. The question may be one of OS rather than UI. Could a thin, basic laptop run a smartphone OS? I expect that we'll see several vendors try it in the year ahead.

5. Most users consume, not create

One of the biggest complaints about the iPad is that it offers a subpar experience for creating content. There's no denying it, and frankly it's one of the reasons that I personally don't use the iPad very much. It's mostly a reader of books, documents, and files for me, because when I go online I typically do a lot of content creation, from writing articles on TechRepublic to posting photos on Flickr to posting tech news updates on Twitter.

However, I'm not the average user. Even with the spread of social networking, which is much more interactive, the 90-9-1 principle still applies across most of the Web. That means only 1% of users are actual content creators, while 9% are commenters and modifiers, and the remaining 90% are simply readers or  consumers. The iPad is a great device for content consumers. But, it's not very good for the creators and modifiers, who are both strong candidates to stick with today's laptop form factors, which are perfect for people who type a lot and manipulate content.

That leaves a huge market that could be easy pickings for the iPad. As a result, vendors need to think about ways to make laptops better content consumption devices.

6. Size matters

Being able to carry the iPad without a laptop bag is another huge plus. The power adapter is even small enough to roll up and put in a pocket, a jacket, or a purse. The diminutive size of the iPad can make business professionals feel as if they are traveling very light, especially if they're used to lugging a laptop bag that included the laptop and a bunch of accessories to support it. On a plane, working with the iPad on a tray table is a much more roomy experience than trying to use most laptops.

The lightweight nature of the iPad can also make it more likely that professionals will carry it into a conference room or into someone else's office to show a document or a Web page, for example.

There are plenty of ultraportable laptops on the market from virtually every vendor, but these tend to be specialty machines and are often higher priced. In light of the iPad's success, vendors might want to rethink their ultraportable strategy by looking to make these devices smaller, less expensive, and better on battery life. They may also consider experimenting with a mobile OS such as Android on some of these devices.

About

Jason Hiner is Editor in Chief of TechRepublic and Long Form Editor of ZDNet. He writes about the people, products, and ideas changing how we live and work in the 21st century. He's co-author of the upcoming book, Follow the Geeks (bit.ly/ftgeeks).

240 comments
Oz_Media
Oz_Media

1) [b]Battery life[/b] with a notebook you have more hardware to power, network cards, hard drive, higher end GPU,larger display, cooling fan etc. It should go without saying that powering more hardware requires more power. Laptop makers have been battling the power issue for decades and iPad is not exactly an eye openign solution for them. They all know that stripping down hardware and functionality will reduce power consumption, but sells less notebooks. 2)[b] Instant On[/b] once again, it's been known for some time that a flash drive requires less power also and boots instantly, but only for very limited, mobile operating systems. You aren't about to sell too many laptops with a full OS running anything less than a 250GB HD. They learn nothin by looking at the iPad, just that it won't meet customer demands for notebooks. 3)[b] Centralize Software[/b] this is a matter of personal preference of course, but I haven't met too many people that would buy a new notebook that only offered software through a single, proprietary outlet. How many Windows notebooks would sell if you could only buy our software from Microsoft? I wouldn't think too many at all, again nobody is learning anything from the iPad here. 4)[b]Simple interfaces are best[/b] I think this would only apply to the additional software used, not the OS itself. Pretty much everyone knows how to use Windows now, they may limited the complexity of the software they choose to use but the OS itself is hardly daunting for most, regardless of experience or computing needs. I have't run into a single user at ANY level that has issues learning to click a mouse and that would find tapping on a screen easier. 5)[b]Most users consume, not create[/b] If notebooks only offered simple browsing features and ebook readers, it wouldn't sell more notebooks. Again, noteebook manufacturers learn nothing from iPad. 6)[b]Size matters[/b] True, which is why competitors are releasing smaller devices. Large tablets have been around long before the iPad. In conclusion I think comparing notebooks to iPads is not really comparing apples and Apples (excuse the pun). It's like comparing scooters to trucks. Pickup manufacturers don't learn anything from scooter builders other than there is another market they can enter for people seeking a completely different product. Sure, notebook manufacturers are also offering compact, mobile devices too but this has nothing to do with Apple showing them how to improve their notebooks. all Apple has done is shown Joe consumer there is an alternative to notebooks for when they require less.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Will X2's iTablet be a lower cost than iPad? One can only assumes so as it uses standard hardware, unfortunately pricing won't be released until next year, worth waiting for? Why not, Apple will release a dozen more iPads by then, they should be up to iPad6 or 7 by then anyway. Why not wait and get the new and improved i-Pad with G10 speeds? X2 is a bit thicker, but still not a netbook, however for that extra thickness you at least get a larger size (oh, maybe not, Jobs said their competitors all had smaller screens, the 12" must be an outright lie) 3 USB ports, HDMI output, a decent size HD (with XP Tablet, Win7 or Linux installed), more RAM/expansion, essentially it's a PC in a tablet, oh wait, that's a 10 year old product but didn't Apple just invent the new i-Pad that everyone else is out to clone?! Good thing Apple just saved the world by inventing a weaker, more limited, proprietary device, which I will only assume is far more expensive. Wonder what that price point will be? $399, $299?

philip.arnold
philip.arnold

jacksonicon, I SERIOUSLY doubt your job title claiming to be CIO/CTO - if you were, you'd know what a Caps Lock button looks like. The iPad is a success story already, and it's mostly because of Apple's marketing machine. Is it a great tool? No. Is it a funky toy to use at home? Yes. Is it an innovation in computing? Hell no. Is it a "true art work"? Only if you're into simple squares done with silver and black.

ctkelowna
ctkelowna

My $275 HP Mini runs Windows Ultimate and all the same apps my desktop does (sync'd with same desktop via the internet as well), goes to sleep when I close the lid, comes back to the desktop in about 20 seconds when I open it up, and I can hold it in one hand while I use the touchpad in the other if I really wanted to. These are all things that make my netbook just as good a tool if not more usable in the real 'tech' world than an iPad. Others in our organization who have iPads *do not* rely upon them for business use; why? Because they've found they can't, despite the 'coolness' factor. Great for home users or light business use of a typical nature but if I can't integrate it into my tech business as well as an ultra-portable netbook, it's just not feasible.

joliejoe
joliejoe

Hmm , ya you are right. these points are something that laptops are still missing and need some work. Thanks, Jolie Joe iPad News

opmpypumpy
opmpypumpy

I am not a software programmer, just a computer user passionate about the latest technology, especially Mac laptops and my new iPod Touch 32 GB 3rd Gen. Bactium

valduboisvert
valduboisvert

fill in here what you like about gas mowers and don't like about your car. Bet is gonna be an interesting article as well.

dwdino
dwdino

[Ipad] I am not a laptop. [Laptop] (looks down) Agreed.

jmouse888
jmouse888

Apple has the full control over their software and hardware. It's not the case in the PC/Windows world. Let third-party companies make Apple compatible hardware and software without paying loyalties to Apple. See how good Apple's world stacks up then. They will become the same as PC/Windows.

sharpear
sharpear

idk why number 5 is in there. How can laptops learn from this? I think major reason I don't plan to get one still is that I don't see the point of paying 400+ for a kindle. If I have to pay extra for internet, and accessories to even plug in a usb device kinda jumps it up so I could just buy an i7 laptop. I do like the look and case design, but think the price is not worth it. Great article, you pointed out some key features. Wish my laptop lasted for 10+ hours of battery life. Think I average 3 hours on this new one compared to the old one of like 5 hours tops.

krzyst0ff
krzyst0ff

don't forget the nimiety of iPad accessories -- covers, skins, cases, plugins, docks, etc. other manufacturers need to work with 3rd parties more to ensure widespread availabilty of these essential items that make the plain-jane iDevice into ?ber-fashion items, and far more saleable.

rimpac99
rimpac99

I can't see a Win-Tablet coming in this form factor. Win7 is a dog compared to the other nifty OSes around and I can't see it ever being a hit in a tablet. 10 hours of battery juice?? PC users are being short-changed. If you want anything close to a 6-hour battery life, you'll have to lug a tank or worse you have a system that will take forever to open the Notepad.

dcolbert
dcolbert

1: Battery life. Apple has basically rendered moot the question of the importance of user-replacable batteries. Apple provides batteries with run-cycles that bury the competition, and power-cycle lifspans that make the issue moot. The device will generally be obsolete far before the battery life has diminished enough to make run time comparable with competitors devices, and at that point, why worry if the battery is user replacable? 2: Start time. Absolutely right. Instant on *is* the killer app. But - there are two caveats. Apple achieves this through some hocus-pocus, one of which is some of the most aggressive component management in the industry. You mention that many laptops suffer from disruptions during hibernation/sleep cycles that they don't wake from gracefully. All indications are that the iPad's original WiFi/DHCP issues were related to the iPad putting WiFi in an aggressive sleep mode and coming back out of that mode only when actual traffic needed to travel across the wireless network. Apple largely blamed this on certain routers, but my experience was that it was a widespread problem across many WiFi router vendors. Point is, Apple was playing games with WiFi packet traffic. The recent fix seems to have solved this. Other issues (such as missing a second screen or not detecting an external device after coming out of sleep) for Netbooks are related to the complexity of the device, comparable to an iPad. It isn't an issue for the iPad because the iPad doesn't offer that kind of complex expandability. Centralize the Software/Simple Interfaces are best. Both of these lock you into Apple's way of doing things, with absolutely no alternative other than Jailbreaking and going it almost completely alone. Balance is key, a balance that Android is arguably better at striking (and one that iOS 4 makes concessions to, with the addition of things like folders). Form also follows function. Apple's simplicity becomes frustrating when trying to do complex jobs that the iPad forum isn't ideal for. Many users of Pages have complained about the crude interface for storing and retrieving files on the iPad. For content creation, even something as simple as word processing documents, the iPad's simplicity is a liability at a certain point. Most Users Consume, Not Create. To a large extent, this is correct - but everyone with a Facebook page is creating content. The majority of avid Twitter users and just following, they're tweeting. While Twitter lends itself well to content creation on a simple device like an iPad or a mobile device, Facebook adds enough complexity that even the iOS Facebook app is recognized as not ideal by most users. Here is a better way of framing it. While all content creators are content consumers, not all content consumers are content creators. It stands to reason then, that as an ideal content consumption device, the iPad is going to have *massive* appeal. It really is an awesome device for content consumption, and that is going to appeal to *everyone*. But content creators aren't going to replace their favorite devices with an iPad. Maybe use them in a pinch - but the iPad shouldn't give up its day job. :) You basically acknowledge this when you admit you don't use the iPad much. I find that after the initial honeymoon, I don't either. I did read a book on it last night - a book I started on my Android. My wife and kid are warming up to it, though. They mostly consume. Size matters. It does. This is why I liked the netbooks, which you did not like. The iPad is really an evolution of the netbook. They've used higher quality construction that your typical netbook, for sure - and they've thrown in some pleasing curves. I think we'll see some interesting hybrids come out in the near future. The most important thing the iPad has done is gotten people to think outside the box and embrace some new ideas.

Gis Bun
Gis Bun

But as just about everyone says: the iPad [at this incarnation] isn't made for business. sure you can walk around with it and go into a conference room but can you really do so much with it? A guy who does publishing with InDesign or Quark will have a hard time working or showing his work. Yes. it's a pain in the butt when every companies has its own updating software. These software developers should figure out that they don't need to check every time a computer boots up. On the PC, even something as simple as DivX checks at startup. You remove it from the startup and when you check for an update on your own, the updating software stays in memory after checking. If I remember right, Microsoft [at one point] offered to have a more centralized updating but it never got off the ground. Many companies are using Macrovision's InstallShield which has it's own centralized updating software but the developers decided on their own [was Macrovision charging too much?].

mr.netrix+techrepublic
mr.netrix+techrepublic

1. Of course it will have a long battery life if you underpower the device, which works if you do not expect users to do anything productive with it. Also, the iPad has mostly the same hardware as the iPhone, but much more room for a larger battery. How is this a surprise (or anything exceptional)? Technology has gotten better since the days of the Tablet PC. 2. If you have not noticed, most (all?) laptops are able to go into "Sleep" mode, taking only a couple seconds to be able to use it again (instant on). 3. Here we go with the "apps, apps, apps" syndrome. While I agree there is no reason other platforms could not have "app stores", the infatuation with apps is puzzling. I do not see how an oversaturated app store is that beneficial. Why is it important to have access to thousands of apps? Do enough people have nothing better to do than mess around with tons of apps to justify the need for an app store? 4. I miss the days when technology was made for people that knew how to use it. Dumbing things down for the masses is just being a sellout and punishes those of us that actually want to be productive by limiting what we can do. I think there should be an option between a simplified (gimped) UI, and one that allows the user to be productive. 5. While one could argue that if someone wants to be productive (creator or modifier), they should just stick to laptops or desktops, there is a disturbing trend for new devices of making everything easy for the masses and throwing out any real possiblity of productivity for those who can be productive. I suppose not all is lost yet, as there will most likely be slates that run Windows. 6. This is a rather obvious one. If the iPad did not exist, the new slates would most likely be around the same size anyway.

vic.healey
vic.healey

Laptop makers do not stand a chance against Apple. Look at most colleges now. About half of students who opt for a laptop are now using Macs. Mac Books are just better made when compared to the mass market laptops. Now look at what Apple has done with the iPad. Since they can control every element that goes into the user experience it will continue to be the only realistic choice. Look at the iPad screen for instance, it costs Apple $100 to make! The Apple has such a sharp viewing range that you can lay it flat on a table and two people can view it. A comparable mass market laptop screen has a very poor viewing angle. Those are cheap to make and it shows. The problem is the only way for a competitor to make money they have to cut costs from using a cheap OS like Android to the junk hardware itself and it shows in the end user experience.

melias
melias

Many of your points can only be realized either by sacrificing what makes a laptop a laptop, or by advances in technology that would effectively make both laptops AND the iPad obsolete. I realize you are trying to show where laptop technology can be bettered, but please don't make it sound like all these improvements can be made with today's technology and a reasonable budget.

pcwow
pcwow

What if the PC start learning to be a rip-off sigle task device fully controlled by the manufacturer with a life expecancy of 3-years only? That will be the end of my business... I wonder how much money they get weekly by posting iStuff here!

melias
melias

Until iDevices can play Flash, I cannot think of these devices as anything more than, well, almost useless. How can you call it a consumption device when there are so many sites that require Flash to use fully? Can it play shows from UTube, Vimeo, Veoh, Hulu, MegaVideo? I know there are converters out there, but that is not the instant gratification iDevices represent. I wonder how many people bought these things and are now in a state of bewilderment that they cannot see so many websites correctly, and this from the company that said it doesn't need a special website to view content at first. THEN they change their tune when they have some market share. *sniff sniff* Is that BS I smell?

jfuller05
jfuller05

When I was thinking of a gift for my wife I thought of buying her a netbook because her main computer use is surfing the web. Then, I realized an iPad would be a far better gift for her than a netbook would be due to the iPad's strength of being very lightweight, ability to turn on quicker, and its simplicity. The iPad is the perfect choice for the content consumer. Now, if only the iPad was cheaper. :) :-0

Murfski-19971052791951115876031193613182
Murfski-19971052791951115876031193613182

This may not be a real good analogy, but some people like automatic transmissions, and others like stick shifts. The automatic doesn't give you much choice about when and how to shift, but it's real convenient in city traffic. A stick gives you more control, but requires more work. The iPad has its place; it's a lightweight, limited-use tool, for people who want a simple computing experience. That's what it's designed for. Quit trying to compare it to a completely different animal. As for limiting the software you're allowed to load, after seeing what some of my users have put on their agency PCs, I'd sure like to limit them to a specific site that had only approved software.

oldbaritone
oldbaritone

There's one born every minute. And ten to bilk them out of their money.

richard.wilson
richard.wilson

Nahh I'm jokin...that article would never appear on Apple fan club..err I mean TechRepublic.

tehpea
tehpea

but what about the things the iPad can learn from laptops? ;) Like being more open to modding.

NetComSulting
NetComSulting

An iPad is NOT a laptop, in no way should it be considered one. It is a dumbed down version of a portable computer system that everyone thinks is groovy. When will the dumb masses figure out that what they payed for does less than what they thought it did? Listen, I'm not saying it is junk, it just shouldn't be in the same category. I need a heafty laptop for my Autodesk Maya and Sony Vegas Pro software, and it has to be 64bit, something iPad can not even compare with, not even close.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

I don't think a centralized software repository requires a monetary component. The point seems to be centralized software in general rather than specifically for purchase. Granted, it's also not a new thing at all give how many network repository based OS are available. The suggestion has even been aimed at windows. Imagine Windows users being able to open Windows Update and simply put a check beside whatever Win32/64 apps they wanted installed; including non-Microsoft options. If I can get AndOr(Firefox, Opera, Chrome, IE) from Windows Update then we're not dealing with anti-competitive strategy. Centralized software listings, centralized install/upgrade/uninstall.. network repositories are fantastic and well proven outside of Apple's single-proprietorship example of overcontrol.

?
?

A cloud is thin; a metal is thick. -> slim|broad; shallow|deep; squat|tall

Slayer_
Slayer_

Mac boys don't want to hear it, and the rest of us already know. :D It's not like your post is going to make Mac boys suddenly realize the error in their ways.

Slayer_
Slayer_

My car rattles louder and piston slaps, my mower does not...

valduboisvert
valduboisvert

yep, you can not compare, laptops are far superior to iPad. I see no use case for an iPad in my life. I have a light laptop, very powerful, I use everywhere. People like new toys, I give them that. However I admit there are some tricks Laptop industry can learn from iPad and these will make them even more powerful in the future. And I will definitely buy the next nice laptop in the future because I need a mobile computer not a toy. But that is just me.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

It's no accident that the battery is removable and not about "because batteries last long enough to not replace" all though having you buy a new phone is definitely a benefit. Apple is a phone company that wants to track your phone/ipad wherever it goes. Being able to truly turn it off or remove the battery is counterproductive. It reduces the ability to track your every movement. Where is your phone at night; that's where you live. Where is your phone all day; that's where you work. Your phone and another phone are in proximity in a hotel room over lunch; is that your wife with you? Now, Apple doesn't care if your having an affair, there purpose is to sell you more stuff. They want targeted adverting. They want your phone to make a noise and display "I see your beside Wong's restaurant and you've frequently been tracked to chinese restaurants so consider having lunch at Wong's today.. and here's a coupon for 10% off" The problem is that where you are and what your doing is now there data not yours and they have very low standards for handing that data over to others. Government and law enforcement don't currently need much and private investigator's can request it also if not people with even lease justifiable reasons to stalk you.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

I don't mind a daily check for updates but Windows and osX really need to provide a plugin system for the update utility or something. Let third parties tap into that same update engine and manage all updates centrally even if they each reach out to separate servers for download.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

Your saying "laptops" can't stand up to Apple because students are using laptops? I do agree that Apple's PCs are generally better quality than consumer grade PCs. I wouldn't compare a Dell 500$ or Acer with a macbook list of parts. When you hit business grade hardware, Apple's PCs are about on par in terms of quality. I'm also well over 45 degrees off center and my laptop screen looks perfectly bright and clear. Apple isn't the only hardware vendor shipping wide viewing angles. If we include the Iphone, there are clearer screens on the market from other vendors. The real question will be how much effort Apple puts into osX. They've kind of been ignoring it in favor of the smaller devices. The next osX release will tell weather it's become a second class citizen at one infinit loop or not though.

Slayer_
Slayer_

Seriously, I wanna know the college with the rich kids that can all afford a Mac... And why viewing angle really matters when your staring right at it.

mbm29414
mbm29414

If you can't think of much to do with an iPad besides viewing Flash content, then you obviously lack the requisite product knowledge to comment on this post. Sure, it's irritating when I come across the random site that unexpectedly doesn't display properly, but I knew from the get-go that this device wouldn't go to Hulu, etc... (By the way, I'm not sure why you posted about UTube [sic], since the iPad has a native YouTube app on it. Sure, some videos can't be seen, but I haven't run across many of them.) You might be interested to know that there are hundreds of thousands of apps that will run on this machine. Some of them may not be very USEFUL to you, but I would venture that quite a lot would be, thus dragging this device out of the realm of USELESS. Also, a lot of web content creators will want to have iPad users viewing their content, so HTML5 should see a lot of progress in the next few years. I think if you tried one of these devices, you might see the foolishness of your post. It still may not be the device for you, but the iPad is far from useless.

mjc5
mjc5

Want a device that they don't have to fight with to work. I see the biggest resistance to this thing as a thinly veiled resistance to progress. There is bad "progress", such as Vista, and there is real progress, such as the IPad. The days are nearing an end for the concept of having to become a computer weenie just to access the things that are expected, like email,and the web. Eventually cars moved beyond crank starts, manual only transmissions, kerosene powered lanterns, and having a person run in front of the car, warning other people that an automobile is coming, so that you don't scare the horses. An appliance that just works is exactly what is needed. Appliances like the IPad are going to do exactly what the Apple forced Microsoft into doing years ago - adapt or fall apart. Command line is cool, but It was just ready to be replaced by a GUI. I remember the same statements from the MS-DOS fans, about how now any dummy will be able to use a computer, and the superiority of the CLI. And here we are 20 some years later. I still use the CLI on my Mac, but 99 percent of people don't

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

So you wouldn't want longer battery life and other Ipad demonstrated features in addition to the hefty workstation features and software platform that supports industrial software like Maya?

michaellashinsky
michaellashinsky

You are not thinking different. The iPad isn't a dumbed down computer. It is a Palm Pilot on steroids!!! I don't want an iPad to replace my desktop computer. I want one to replace my palm pilot. My laptop is too big to carry everywhere and I cannot take it out and set it up in any waiting room. (Takes 5 min. to put away again, too!) I whip out my Palm Pilot every time I am sitting still for more than a minute. However, I am really tired of playing solitaire, and although I do read books on it, I don't like to start reading unless I can settle in for a while. The iPad would be an excellent cross! If only it didn't cost so much... Do you get it yet?

mbm29414
mbm29414

You said it yourself: "I need a heafty [sic] laptop for my Autodesk Maya and Sony Vegas Pro software." Um... your machine isn't a laptop, either; it's a portable workstation. There's no way you can get by with any sort of standard laptop, so it's a BIT of an unfair comparison to measure the iPad against your needs. You can't create highly resource-intensive, highly-advanced computer content on the iPad? No kidding! Guess what? I can't write my computer application code on it either! What a piece of junk then, right? I get so sick of people saying, "It can't do this one specific thing! It's a crappy toy!" It's NOT a toy any more than a laptop or a desktop computer is a toy. It has the potential to be used for business, as I sometimes use it. It also has the potential to be used for pleasure/entertainment, as I sometimes use it. So does my laptop. So do desktop computers. Some of the most powerful "TRUE" computer equipment out there is used exclusively by gamers. So are all of these incredibly powerful and useful computer components merely ?toys?? I think not. Look, if you don't want an iPad, fine; don't buy one. Why, though, do so many people have to chime in on why they have a particular, specific need that isn't met and then act as if their particular position should be normative for all users? Let me try turning the tables on you... The iPad DOES work for me in business. Therefore, you are an IDIOT for not buying one! Now, that's a stupid statement, right? So why do so many people feel justified in doing the inverse of that? The iPad is a good product that is USEFUL to a large number of people. Why can't we leave it at that? Sure, there are some things that may need improvement, and we can talk about those, but why is there so much anger, disdain and hatred surrounding this product? IT'S A STINKING MACHINE!!! WHO CARES?!?!? @Jason, I normally read your articles just to see how badly you missed the target YET AGAIN. However, this time, I was pleasantly shocked to see how well-written this piece was. It was fair and balanced and well-informed. Good on ya!

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I don't like a single, 'approved' repository though. There are so many companies with so many offerings, it makes software fun to test and trial everything. As for iPhone/Pad, the only timme I've seen it making any sense is when looking at the cracked apps available for download through reputable torrent sites. In that respect, free software, it starts looking better than hideously awful anyway. I don't mind surfing, testing, exploring and using several manufcturer's apps at will, to find which I like best. Cost isn't so much my issue as variety. I own a couple of apps worth more than $7K each, for personal use, but I've tried or used everything else in their market over time. I like choice and freedom, not what a a manufacturer feels is good enough for me.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

It's not like they will ADMIT the error in their ways. Often people realize things without acknowledging. ;) But damn, I hope this comes out strong in April, I was looking at something similar (from another company 2 years ago) but even my dealer cost was over $3500.00. Hopefully, as a consumer gadget, this will hold its weight and be affordable but not cheapo.

dwdino
dwdino

My point was that the comparison of the two is in error. The two are in completely different realms and serve different purposes. Take the iPad and add a worthwhile processor, RAM, and storage - perhaps a couple of USB ports. That "wonderful" battery life just dropped to match netbooks/notebooks. On the other hand, take a notebook and insert a miniscule processor, decreased RAM, small flash drive, etc. Battery life improves to near iPad levels.

dcolbert
dcolbert

While I agree, the only way to be certain that a device is *truly* asleep is to remove the power source - I'm pretty confident that my iPad (non-3G) isn't tracking my every move. Unless I'm near a hot-spot, it isn't phoning home for sure. Beyond that, there are two levels of power-off for an iPad (much like a Droid). A quick tap on the power button puts it in a sleep mode where power consumption is cut and the screen is turned off. A long press actually shuts the machine off completely. Beyond that, I am *positive* that the vast majority of iPhone users have upgraded to the latest/greatest iPhone long before their battery life has gone through enough charge/discharge cycles that it had lost significant capacity over brand new. Apple batteries are phenomenol. There isn't any need to have a user replacable battery. The real point is, devices with user replacable batteries generally have *horrible* battery life. They've got poor discharge times and horrible discharge/recharge life cycles before the battery needs to be replaced. This is what most people are used to, so when they see an Apple product with a non-user replacable battery, they freak out. But experience tells me that Apple products, it is almost a non-issue. A small percentage of Apple product owners have battery issues - and buying a last generation Apple product is probably not a good idea - but if you buy new, you're going to be amazed by what Apple does with battery life.

dogknees
dogknees

Are not in favour of anything that dumbs down the masses. Anything that encourages people to stop learning. I don't want to live in a world of dumbasses, I want to raise their level, not lower mine to match.

valduboisvert
valduboisvert

Neon you are missing the Maya experience or CG Design and I understand your question came from this background (let me now if I am wrong though). However I have lots of experience with CG and I can tell only for me: I don't give a squat on battery life if I am working in Maya. However I need at least 3 22" monitors. And to put a stop to the hypocrisy potential here, I don't need a laptop to work in Maya but a workstation. Hope is little more clear now. iPad is not for CG or developers or IT persons. They are meant to be for other user class, business or technical clueless, whatever want to call them. Oh, yes, Apple fans.

Slayer_
Slayer_

Not exactly precise clicking...

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

The newest OVi store is pretty good or you can opt for any amount of symbian software from all over the web (LOL, I initially typed Symbian without the M in it, completely different device and not so mobile :) ). I've browsed the Ovi Store for convenience and then found the same app elswhere for free though, usually from the developer directly. I think Nokia has more going for it than just the Symbian apps though [i](which I find are more plentiful and they usually dance circles around most iOS apps)[/i], they actually know that first and foremost it has to be a good sounding phone with a quality reception, microphone and speaker.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

I like the "approved repository" with option to enable/add other's ideally. Your still centralizing your install/update/uninstall but are not limited to one authorities approval process.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

That's old and weak. You are not a victim nor are you being victimised, you merely have a difference of opinion that you insist others address. One last try to have a civil conversation? Your post shave been an attempt to try and change people's views of i-Pads as you defend your choices. So clearly what you mean is "one last try, to change your opinion." You can't accept that people don't see i-Pad as a viable tool for most computer users, IT staff. You yourself have admitted it has shortcomings and you still need a notebook to complete such tasks. I-Pad is not being marketd as a peripheral or 'handy gadget', it is being marketed as the second coming of Christ. [i]Who knows, but that puts the $500 item in a different light, no?[/i] Yes, if by different light you mean it makes it a cheap toy that is inferior to products that DO what businesses and most users really need in a mobile computer. An $10K station wagon can not be sold as equivalent and expected to compete in a market segment with $70K pickup trucks. A pickup offers basic users functionality that a station wagon doesn't even begin to compete with. Does everyone that could get by with a station wagon need a pickup? No. But when the wagon is trying to imply that it is just as useful as a pickup and that new pickup makers are just copying the wagon, there's something horribly wrong.

mbm29414
mbm29414

to have a civil conversation. So, the product that TWO years ago cost $3500 still costs that. I can get 7 iPads for that price. Is it worth it? Who knows, but that puts the $500 item in a different light, no? Also, when did we begin discussing laptops from 5 years ago? You have said that the iPad is over-priced and then go on about the great features on a table from two years ago that STILL costs $3500. It just sounds like you're not making a fair comparison. Based on your qualifications, I'm not sure where you're going to find your ideal tablet. Also, it's laughable that you imply: 1. iOS is not widely-used. 2. iOS has "limited" software. Whether your ideal tablet runs Windows or Linux (surely an Android tablet doesn't fit your definitions, right?), you're limited there to the software that's offered. Is it a wider range than iOS? Sure, but it's also had the benefit of being around for a lot longer time. And why do you get so vicious and, dare I say, vitriolic, when challenged? I want to have a discussion about salient points of fact, while you go off trashing me and talking about how insignificant I am. Huh.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

If you are referring to me commenting on the wholesale cost of a tablet 2 years ago, they still are $3500.00 for a base unit. A $3500 laptop 5 years ago is less than $600 today,for a much better machine even. Why would I be humbled by your constant whining? I couldn't give a rats arse about what you will or won't buy, it makes no difference in anyone's life. As you seem to care about such irrelevant trivialities, I [i]would[/i] buy a [i]better[/i] tablet that is versatile, powerful, has ample storage and connectivity and a widely used operating system with virtually unlimited software for $600, before something that lacks in so many areas of modern computing basics.

mbm29414
mbm29414

Oz, May I ask, oh magnificent Oz, why it is that the iPad gets thrown under the bus for its price, but a similar device 2 years ago costing $3500 doesn't? I mean, a $3500 laptop from 2 years ago isn't $500 new today. Are you not at all humbled by the lack of consistency? By the way, if the device comes out, spec'd as you describe, for $300-$400, I'll buy one, even owning an iPad. I highly doubt it will. If you've looked at the Android-based touchscreen tablets that have come out recently, it doesn't bode well for pricing competitiveness.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

Apple had.. well.. Mr Jobs had a rather public fit over Ipads tracking user's every moves around Capertino prior to launch. It was an installed app rather than the hardware itself but I don't see much difference in a vendor being able to track the installed software or a vendor being able to track the hardware. "off completely" is the real question though. It's not like "off completely" devices haven't been remotely activated already in several cases. For those that are going to upgrade because Apple ships a newer device, battery life isn't going to be an issue. What of user's that don't have a reason to upgrade, they'll be force to replace perfectly functioning hardware simply because the battery has been run down. Removable batteries with less use lives seems more like a part problem. Why does integrating the battery magically make it last longer? I can't see that much resistance caused by the contacts for a removable battery. We should be demanding longer lasting removable batteries, not thanking Uncle for telling us "it lasts longer, don't ask questions, sine this contract". Perhaps I shut the phone down for a few months.. will that battery degrade? I'm in the habit of removing batteries from devices that will be shelved for long periods of time. (I'm not average though, I miss the days when a power switch was actually a physical breaker between power source and device.) Privacy is Dead ? Get Over It Steven Rambam http://c2047862.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/tnha18a.mp3 http://c2047862.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/tnha18b.mp3 very much worth a listen

?
?

a vendor decides !-> they

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Where I think your stand is not warmly accepted is very similar to your own views. You just chastise people for not recognizing it is a device that suits your needs. The issue I have with i-Pad is, not only does it not meet the needs of most, it fails in the absolute most basic needs for a mobile computer, it's simply a giant i-Phone. i-Phones are no different, marketed as an industry first to be copied, and yet uses old screen technology, a limited and proprietary OS, hardware and app store etc. Devices that do more, for less money have been around for ages already, and yet so many iPhone users think the world around them is full of Apple clones, untrue. If HP released a netbook that had no connectivity, a tiny hard drive, limited RAM, an HP operating system where you had to buy apps through the HP store etc. And then marketed it as the new revolution in computing, they would be an instant laughing stock and VERY FEW people would be buying them as they it would fail to meet the most basic modern day computing needs or MOST users, even if that limited functionality appeals to yourself. Win98 is enough for my mother's use, though I have her on Win7 because it limits the time I spend working on it, besides giving her the latest card games and such, she needs no help with the machine itself. However, that doesn't make a Win98 box suitable to present as new and cutting edge in today's marketplace. Slamming any upcoming competition as being substandard, they way Jobs did in the article we are addressing in this thread, is just ignorance unless your offering really is cutting edge and leads the technology. In Apple's case, the i_Pad pales in the face of real competition, sure jobs is pointing out smaller devices but not his direct competition, which is a piece of pie they are trying to tap into now when he refers to business use. They saw a market that was already being managed by expensive, high end devices. He decided to offer a less expensive, stripped down, consumer version to appeal to those who won't drop $4K+ for high end tablets, now he pretends they are pioneers and others are playing catch up? I don't think so.

mbm29414
mbm29414

Hey, man, we can argue all day long about what feature set is ideal. You and I probably have different ideas about what we want. That's cool and (I think) productive. (As an aside, I DO hope they improve the iPad in future releases. I think it's darn good for a rev. 1 product, but I'd like to see it process a little bit faster, with a front-facing camera, get FaceTime, etc.) I agree with you that the iPad (for almost everyone) doesn't replace a laptop. When I see people try to put forward that idea, it makes me cringe. I've seen few people, though, especially on this site who will go that far. In fact, the vast majority of the sentiment I've read here is that the iPad is a worthless product, especially for IT people. I disagree, but I don't care if people think that way. What bothers me (and what I thought you did) is when people go one step beyond that and deride others for finding the iPad to be useful and worthwhile. Thanks for the cordial response! I hope we can have even better interactions in the future.

dogknees
dogknees

>>Just, please, don't treat others poorly because their needs are met when yours aren't. That's all. When they start going on about no one needing more than them and therefore PCs should be left behind,... , I think they deserve some approbation! That's when they start dragging us all down. They're making the same assumption I get dissed over. They're assuming that because their needs are met, so are everyones. That everyone wants what they do, and if you don't the fault lies with you. I'm not saying everyone wants or needs what I do, that would be pretty stupid. I'm saying we all have different needs and we should all recognise this fact and act/write accordingly. When people don't keep this in mind, I get annoyed and bite! Regards

mbm29414
mbm29414

Absolutely not! I totally support your desire to get what you want! I think it's great when people come on here and have constructive ideas about what could make something BETTER. I could care less when someone says, "Product X just doesn't meet my needs. I wish it did Y." What bothers me is when people say, "Product X doesn't work for me, therefore it's a terrible product that dumbs down its users and creates a world of dumbasses. You're an idiot if you use product X." I don't care if it's an iPad, a Droid or anything else, I don't like to see people treated with contempt and hatred for their choice of product. Don't like product X? Fine. Want a different feature set? Fine. That's constructive and helpful. Wish the iPad had USB? Cool. I don't, but that's a valid opinion. Think I'm an idiot for using an iPad? Not cool. (Yes, Oz, I'm aware you think I'm an idiot for that plus many other reasons.) So, GBentley, make your demands. Push the envelope. Wish for more and ask for it. Just, please, don't treat others poorly because their needs are met when yours aren't. That's all.

dogknees
dogknees

The fact that those of us that want more complexity are a minority doesn't mean there should be no products directed at us. They might be more expensive, or harder to find, but they should still exist. Ferrari doesn't aim their products at the majority and they seem to be doing OK. I guess the "dominant paradigm" in our business is becoming "market to the masses and ignore the rest". That's frustrating and does us no good.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

First of all, don't try to educate me, don't tell me what I think and what I am, you haven't the foggiest clue. Your replies are like analogies from a grade school teacher, try offering you opinion of the subject we are discussing, not your completely unqualified opinion of the person you are speaking with. Perhaps that's the problem, you feel this is personal and should be addressing you personally, it appears to me hat you have issues with opinion based on personal experience with market segment, as if you wish to be singled out and addressed as such. When I speak in general terms it does not mean that ALL people are as such, otherwise I would have said so. Once again, as this is a public forum, where we are discussing a subject in genera terms, I do not have interest nor knowledge of your person to address each as an individual. The original post is a generalization, an open invitation for opinion so STOP trying to make it about yourself as an individual. If you stand out from the suggested crowd then do so, if it doesn't apply to YOU then don't take such offense to comments not directed AT YOU. I DO let people what they want, I have no control otherwise and I haven't called you an idiot, so stop implying so. [i]"They are mainly just gadgets for the IT wannabes..." (Implying that iDevice users can't REALLY be IT people.)[/i] Not at all an it's FAR from a personal attack, ESPECIALLY if you automatically exclude yourself from such a group to begin with! You make no sense at all with your desperate need for individual recognition. then once someone addresses you specifically, you will claim it is a personal attack upon you!? Cry victim much? If it isn't addressing YOU, how can you take offense and see it as an attack? If you said Canadians are all idiots, would I take offense? Nope, I'm not Canadian so I automatically exclude myself without saying, 'Hey, that doesn't include me, I'm not an idiot and you should address me too!' If you are not like them, it doesn't refer to you, get it yet? Man, talk about splitting hairs! Yank the panties out of your crack and move on already. Having worked in IT, having spent many MANY hours with IT staff all over North America, having sold products to IT staff and understanding the mobile device market and demographics pretty well, I offered my comment as a personal observation. Did I not single you out and address you personally again? I'm sorry, I will try to include you as an individual when I generalize a market next time. Perhaps, 'I find that most people in IT are latching onto these devices because other IT staff use them, except mjc5' [i](sorry you'll have to give me personal details so I can address you more accurately in future)[/i] '...who feels he/she is unique and does not fit into the generalization of most IT staff that we see. In fact for mjc5's personal opinion, you are best speaking with him/her as an individual via peer mail so that he can better describe his/her true position to you." Try looking up inferiority complex. It appears to me, as an individual, that you, as an individual, require some real self appreciation time. Again, speaking from my very limited knowledge of your true identity and merely based on what I, as an individual, understand based on your, as an individual, ramblings thus far. Next time I'll be sure to ask for your personal opinion so I can rightly exclude you from generalizations that you will deem a personal attack. Yeah, it sounds real logical, doesn't it?

mbm29414
mbm29414

Yes, demonstrably wrong but agreeably (somewhat) based on fact. You cite examples that are genuine enough. I have no beef with that. Where you err is when you take that sample and apply it to the whole as if EVERYONE who buys an iPad is an idiot. You don?t like Apple products. Whoop-dee-doo. Why do you have to attack those who do? It would be like me saying: 1. Some people who live in Canada are idiots. 2. Therefore, Oz_Media is an idiot. (This is NOT my opinion, by the way.) Or, more to the point: 1. The Canadian Prime Minister lies. 2. Therefore, Oz_Media is an idiot. (Again, not my opinion.) My only point is this: Let people decide what device they want and don't call them an idiot if they don't pick the one you want them to pick. You want to have a discussion about where the iDevice line falls short? Where another device prevails? Fine, but that's not what you're doing. See below: You: "They are mainly just gadgets for the IT wannabes..." (Implying that iDevice users can't REALLY be IT people.) GBentley: "I don't want to live in a world of dumbasses." (Implying that iPad users are dumbasses.) Valduboisvert: "iPad is not for IT people, but for users who have no ideas what are they buying, what a computer is or how internet is working and they are not willing to put a few neuron at work to learn that simple basic stuff." (Implying that iPad users are clueless and lazy.) So, I'm defending myself against your attacks. I'm also trying to show other readers that BASED ON REAL EXPERIENCE, the device is not at all how you are portraying it. Don't want one? Fine. I'm not going to call you stupid for disagreeing with me. Would you extend me the same courtesy?

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Firstly, I LOVE your use or vitriol! How many web forums do you hang out on ? You constantly quote the comments that you shoot down and add (sic) as if your grammatical abilities are well above the poster you are replying to. Quoting and using italics is enough, I think people will understand it's a quote and won't label you as having bad typing skills. So the hypocrisy, and you illustrate that you are rife with it! Fist of all, you go on about people's attitudes toward others. Then you step in to several posts, gbentley, valdubiosvert, myself and others and display your own defensive and negative attitude toward others. Correcting typos as if you were their elementary school teacher, it's a good thing TR doesn't allow grading and big red circles in posts. The "vitriol" in which I address Apple products is personal opinion based on industry knowledge, end of. Being a public forum of open discussion on the topic of Apple's products, this is exactly the forum to state such distaste. [i]"Sir, you are actually demonstrably dead wrong in your opinions about the iPad. I will grant that some of your opinions have some basis in fact,..."[/i] Demonstrably dead wrong but agreeably based on fact? "[i]The problem with your assertions is that I am able to shatter them with only myself as the point of analysis. [/i] In your mind/opinion. I said: [i]"i-Products seem to be for those that THINK they are cutting edge but really don't know that the technology is not brand new, Apple did not invent it, it's been doe [sic] for ages already and Apple is just offering cheap versions of other products already on the market."[/i] Apple's marketing is focused on offering leading technology tat is cutting edge, even Jobs seems to believe everyone is copying Apple now, which they are not, these devices have been around a decade now. Just like the i-Phone, buy an old touch technology tat failed (company actually went bankrupt) add an A4 to it and pretend it's new and cutting edge? Nope. Yet all of the discussions about i-Phone, have users sharing the focus that Apple is the cutting edge and others are just poor quality clones. (It's not ALWAYS about yourself, no matter how much you would like it to be.) You said: [i]"What I care about is that a small, thin, light, attractive product carries music/apps/audiobooks, etc... that I want to hear.[/i] I-Pod touch...music? i-Tunes, "music"? i-Tunes are some of the worst quality, over compressed songs you can find. Certainly it is "music" by definition, but by audio standards it is horrendous muffled racket, and that has NOTHING to do with YOUR personal taste in music. You don't like the term dumbing down, yet that's exactly what such crap quality audio has done for the masses and why i-Pod touch and i-Tunes have succeeded. People these days wouldn't even understand fidelity anymore as they have been "dumbed down" by inferior audio quality of such devices that limit you to one horrific audio format. [i]It syncs with software I consider to be suitable and easy to use and that software syncs with a marketplace where I find fair pricing and a similar user-friendliness.[/i] If you are still referring to i-anything, they are not competitively priced at all, their 'sync' is proprietary and limited as is the marketplace. Use friendliness? Are other, similar devices just too hard for you to use? What you have essentially said is that you chose it due to it's low quality and limited music formats, it's inability to play common, uncompressed media, the fact that you can only use it with limited sources and software and it's higher price point to even superior products. Great reasoning for your choices, which are yours to enjoy of course but not exactly defensible reasons for making a purchase. [i]Further, I would ask you to prove the statement that "it's been doe [sic: "done"?] for ages already and Apple is just offering cheap versions of other products already on the market."[/i] Well, the chipset used for the i-Phone was bought from a company that used to build touch screen terminals. Their technology was 3-5 years too late and had been superseded by products introduced by a company they were trying to compete with, TYCO/ELO. they added a very inaccurate multitouch chip and pretended it was cutting edge touch technology. The reason it failed before was due to input inaccuracy compared to competitive products, thus apple said the stylus was dead and not needed anymore, yet ignored the accuracy competitive devices used that enabled normal cursive handwriting recognition, sketch to line drawing conversion etc.. It didn't work in a full sized touch screen terminal, and it fails to compete in smaller screens too. Symbol/Motorola, ITronix (formerly General Dynamics)Janam, ELoTouch, Xplore and others have had FAR superior tablets out for over a decade already, aimed at the medical, industrial and rugged needs industries. they just don't come cheap enough for the average consumer, but those users would also not be able to use the i-Pad as it is far too limited by OS, durability, connectivity and functionality for their business needs. [i]"We've already got cars that work, so we shouldn't try to make better cars?"[/i] Yes, but that's not the case here. This is like building a 1984 K-Car to compete with a 2010 Audi. Improvement is advancement, not just stripping down, cheaping out and selling for less. "...I am not a wannabe audio buff or DJ due to the fact that I've purchased an "iDevice."[/i] I never implied you were, but again this is not about YOU. It's still very common though. [/i]You expose that you have lost objectivity in this discussion and make statements that are silly at best.[/i] You expose that your sense of reason and logic is warped due to a seemingly religious experience with Apple's toys. When you start saying that you choose a device due to price point, which is higher than most, sync, which is limited compared to most, a limited access and more costly online source of data, you are illustrating that regardless of reality, you will still see it as superior, though clearly inferior for your noted reasons alone. [i]This goes to my earlier point; I am so frustrated by people who are unwilling to let individuals decide what works for them.[/i] And you display that in your overly defensive ranting to multiple people's comments here, is Jobs your dad or something? SUMMARY: Is the iPad useless? No. (I never said it was) Is someone a lemming for buying an iPad? Perhaps. (In more and more cases yes, viral marketing makes people THINK they made a decision when they really haven't) Is the iPad a useful tool? ***IN MY OPINION***, Yes. I agree, if yuo have VERY limited needs and don't mind paying more for less. [i]"I have no problem if you do not want one[/i][b] THANK YOU, HOW KIND OF YOU![/b][i], but why does it make you so mad that I DO want one and think it's useful? Your attitude and actions are sheer absurdity! [/i] It doesn't "make me mad", in my opnion it makes YOU mad. Generally, people who choose to buy less for more are not looked upon as being too clever anyway. If you were spending MY money I may get mad, but you can spend yours how you choose and, if I remember correctly, I don't think I ever said otherwise. As for absurdity, your overly defensive rants toward ANYONE who responded negatively to this open, public forum, are examples of your own absurdity in action, and thus the hypocrisy in your comments. You've done it over and over again here, and then try to take the high ground while claiming your reasoning, which is full of gaping holes, is validated, LOL. Get a grip already. First you complain that I am speaking in generalizations and then you offer individual examples as if correcting me. :D I'm sorry but I don't have time to interview every iToy user and find out his/her reasons for making such a decision. I merely go on what I see, those I know and my experience selling far superior products in the business marketplace. I know what business users need and demand in their RFP's for business applications, I deal with the engineers, marketing staff and operational managers of the companies that design them. The iPad has NEVER been deployed in such cases and in more than one RFP I have seen it specifically excluded from quotation due to it's limitations. You can moan about my not addressing your individual needs all you like but just as you suggest it's not about everyone, it's not just about you either.

mbm29414
mbm29414

Oz, For all your apparent expertise, it's amazing to me to see the vitriol with which you treat Apple products. You quite openly tip your hand and show that logic and reasoning have vacated the premises when it comes to your opinion about any issue related to Apple/Mac/Jobs. Sir, you are actually demonstrably dead wrong in your opinions about the iPad. I will grant that some of your opinions have some basis in fact, but your sweeping generalizations about the use and users of "iDevices" are simply not attached to any reality. The problem with your assertions is that I am able to shatter them with only myself as the point of analysis. You said: "i-Products seem to be for those that THINK they are cutting edge but really don't know that the technology is not brand new, Apple did not invent it, it's been doe [sic] for ages already and Apple is just offering cheap versions of other products already on the market. They are mainly just gadgets for the IT wannabes who just don't know any better." I say: This is where you are just getting mean and dirty. If an "iDevice" meets needs (or wants) that I have for a price that is attractive, I will buy it with no regard to whether I "THINK [I am] cutting edge but really don't know that the technology is not brand new." I could care less whether my iPod Touch is "cutting edge." What I care about is that a small, thin, light, attractive product carries music/apps/audiobooks, etc... that I want to hear. It syncs with software I consider to be suitable and easy to use and that software syncs with a marketplace where I find fair pricing and a similar user-friendliness. Whether I'm an IT professional or not (I am), the iPod Touch is a good choice for me. Further, I would ask you to prove the statement that "it's been doe [sic: "done"?] for ages already and Apple is just offering cheap versions of other products already on the market." This argument might perhaps hold for the iPod; there certainly were a lot of music players on the market when Apple debuted theirs, but I'm not sure you can accurately say this with the iPhone or iPad. I at least can't think of similar devices that brought together ALL that these devices do. And who cares if it's been done before? We've already got cars that work, so we shouldn't try to make better cars? You said: "Just as i-Pods are for people who want to be audio buffs and DJ's but again just don't know that far better products are available and have been for ages. i-Marketing, the wave of the future for those wanting to be lead." [sic: should be "led"] I say: I'm not sure about the differentiation between what constitutes an "i-Product" vs. an "i-Pod" [sic: should be "iPod"], but again, the iPod Mini, Shuffles (2), iPhones (3) and iPod Touch I've used were never purchased for any purpose like you've stated. As above, all of the products are easy to use and do what I expect. You may have different expectations than I do, or you might want to pay less "for more", but I am not a wannabe audio buff or DJ due to the fact that I've purchased an "iDevice." You expose that you have lost objectivity in this discussion and make statements that are silly at best. This goes to my earlier point; I am so frustrated by people who are unwilling to let individuals decide what works for them. Quite a few of the Apple critics talk about the "closed ecosystem" or they decry that Steve Jobs tells you want you want. Well, aren't you guilty of the same by minimizing the intelligence and decision-making capabilities of those who purchase Apple products? Summary: Is the iPad useless? No. (It might be TO YOU.) Is someone a lemming for buying an iPad? No. (They might be a lemming, but that's a separate issue.) Is the iPad a useful tool? ***IN MY OPINION***, Yes. I have no problem if you do not want one, but why does it make you so mad that I DO want one and think it's useful? Your attitude and actions are sheer absurdity!

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

You make it sound like you need to be a tech to use anything but an i-Pad, of course that's pure rubbish. Not that long ago, the majority of PC users were at or below the beginner level of computing. Now that mainstream is at least a well rounded beginner but more toward the intermediate users level. When you are comparing i-Phones to notebooks, you make it seem as if anyone using a notebook must be a tech and use it from the command line. Win7 is an idiots platform, anyone can use Win7 and surprise themselves with what they are able to accomplish. Updates are automatic if you want to dig them up as needed. The iPhone/iPad is not that much simpler to use than most other devices at all. If you have issues, which is common too with reboots, freezes etc. You need to know how to reset it, just like rebooting Windows. i-Products seem to be for those that THINK they are cutting edge but really don't know that the technology is not brand new, Apple did not invent it, it's been doe for ages already and Apple is just offering cheap versions of other products already on the market. They are mainly just gadgets for the IT wannabes who just don't know any better. Just as i-Pods are for people who want to be audio buffs and DJ's but again just don't know that far better products are available and have been for ages. i-Marketing, the wave of the future for those wanting to be lead.

mjc5
mjc5

We're looking at supply and demand here. Many of the full features we look for are going to turn off other people. And with the demand, someone will step up to service it. When your tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. There is an extreme need for a device that doesn't require an expert to keep it running. The paradigm of Windows type Computer support needs is an utter failure. When I'm called upon to get a computer running that had a security patch freshly installed that secured the computer by making it inoperative, that's telling us that something isn't quite right. Shifting resolutions upon awakening. Opps, something just quit running... The PC world is full of this kind of stuff. As much as we can say that "All you have to do is.....", the fact is that it shouldn't happen at all. Time moves on, do we move with it? I knew people who thought elimination of escape codes for printing was "dumbing down" as well as the GUI was enabling stupid people to invade the club. GIve it up and let's move on. We need to get out of our comfort zone. And that's the real learning opportunity, not exploring and tweaking some app. Moving on to the next level.

dogknees
dogknees

I have no problem with people having simple tools to do simple jobs. What I do have a problem with is only having simple tools available. The tendency seems to be that a vendor decides that since they're selling vast numbers of the simple version, they'll stop developing and selling the full featured version. That's what frustrates me. I want the full featured apps. I'll happily spend time learning about the app. Learning about the subject at hand. Becoming, if not an expert, at least a knowledgeable amateur on the subject at hand. People with broad interests and quite deep knowledge of them do exist and we get frustrated with others assuming we know nothing about anything outside our job description and don't want to spend time and effort learning. That's why I'm so upset about the dumbing down of applications. I like learning new things. It's my greatest enjoyment in life! Taking that away makes my life significantly poorer. Regards

mbm29414
mbm29414

don't consider somebody dumb if they choose not to be an expert in the same field as I am. Just because someone isn't an IT professional, or even a "computer person," is not a good reason to call them names and say that they are requiring "dumbing down." If you're at all normal, you have an area of expertise and many areas of familiarity, followed by a huge swath of knowledge you lack. That's not a cut-down; it's simply fact. I'm an IT professional. I'm not a doctor. I'm also not an idiot for being ignorant of advanced medicine. I'm not "dumbed down" because I can't do surgery. Therefore, NyQuil is made for me to do "dumbed down" medicine instead of needing a full professional for every cough and sniffle. In the same way that not everyone is an auto mechanic, not everyone is a computer expert. So, what is the problem with a computing device that makes simple (or maybe basic) tasks easier for the masses? Why are they somehow compromising by using such a device? As one last point in my favor, you are clearly not an expert on grammar (look at subject-verb agreement in your post title and body), but that doesn't relegate you to the trash heap.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

ok.. there's an accessory for that; a stylus with a tip the screen is able to sense. (I wouldn't be popping open Maya on that either though)

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