Windows Server

The facts about Windows Server 2008


As expected, at WinHEC yesterday, Microsoft officially branded Longhorn Server as "Windows Server 2008" (see packaging at right). Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates joked, "I know it's a surprise for us to pick something so straightforward, but we thought that would be the best choice."

Gates also commented on the timing of the product:

"We expect to release this product to manufacturing by the end of the year. Of course, all our releases are driven by making sure that the quality feedback we get really makes it clear that this is ready to go into the mainstream as a high volume product.

Also when we make the release, at the same time we'll have a beta of our new hypervisor technology, which we call "Viridian." That's on a somewhat later schedule, but a lot of the features will be there, so that will be in beta form when the server code itself goes to be final."

So, Gates is still leaving the door cracked for a potential product delay. The new virtualization technology won't be fully ready by the time the product ships, and we can expect that the official launch won't happen until the beginning of 2008.

Windows Server 2008 facts

In concert with the announcement, Microsoft provided journalists with a new fact sheet on Windows Server 2008. The information mostly echoes the publicly-known details about the product, but it's interesting to see what Microsoft views as the product's most important features.

It states, "Windows Server 2008 builds on the improved reliability and security of Windows Server 2003 R2 to help organizations create an optimized, more dynamic IT infrastructure by addressing the automation of daily management tasks, tightening security, improving efficiency and increasing availability."

The top features listed are:

  • A more robust Server Manager for configuration tasks
  • Better scripting with Windows PowerShell
  • Server Core installation for better security and a smaller attack surface
  • Windows Server Virtualization for maximizing resources
  • Expanded Terminal Services for better remote access
  • Read-Only Domain Controller (RODC) for remote offices
  • Network Access Protection (NAP) for restricting access to risky devices and systems
  • Failover clustering, dynamic partitioning, and network auto-tuning

Which of the Windows Server 2008 features could potentially have the biggest impact on your network? Join the discussion.

About

Jason Hiner is the Global Editor in Chief of TechRepublic and Global Long Form Editor of ZDNet. He is an award-winning journalist who writes about the people, products, and ideas that are revolutionizing the ways we live and work in the 21st century.

48 comments
rajashilpi2001
rajashilpi2001

Hi All New product great features.... all fine , now lets get to the real show- ?? MS spoke the same lines in different words when they launched XP and 2003 respectively. And what do we have today ? An OS which has got service packs and so many patches and hotfixes !!!! Doesnt MS remind you of a a brand new suit which requires a patch of cloth within the two months that you bought it?? Dont beleive me !!!??? Open your control panel, go to add/remove programs and click the "show updates" checkbox. Then start counting, your in for a surprise !!!! And we call this production grade technology !!!! Show me one single Unix or any non MS OS which has got so many holes. Microsoft security is pure virtual fanciful thought. We shall shortly be seeing Vista patches being released ,.... just wait for patch tuesday !!! I am an administrator and take it from me I am happy if I get a new product in 5 years with the least number of holes in it. I have used Sun, HP, Linux and MS products and of all the lot max effort is needed on MS to keep it running. MS should first work on getting together a product which does not have so many holes with 6 months of release. Instead of announcing a new version every 2 -3 years they should consolidate the existing product then go to the drawing board. Dont beleive me ??? Take a real hard look at Vista. apart from being resorce hungry (1 GB RAM) and being heavily loaded with fancy graphics there is little else of substance apart from real value .. bye

randy.c
randy.c

"The transition to multicore is happening even faster than the move to 64-bit, and Windows Server 2008 is multicore-ready. Microsoft is also licensing by socket, not cores, on a chip," Laing said. " (reported elsewhere) If true, this would be the most compelling reason to upgrade from Windows Server 2003 Standard to Windows Server 2008 Standard Edition. 2003 Std only supports four cores - if 2008 Std supports two quad core chips, that would allow 2X scaling above that of 2003 Std.

ENowicki
ENowicki

Is reboot-less patching. It works in Linux, so why can't MS get their act together and make patching easier on us. I don't have the budget to cluster every windows server and truly see the 99.99% reliablity they like to publish.

NOW LEFT TR
NOW LEFT TR

The One feature that is off use will be left out. Roll on Windows2K10

jasonhiner
jasonhiner

I posted the list of what Microsoft considers the most important features in Windows Server 2008: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=477 Which of these features could have the biggest impact in your data center? Are there other features not on this list that you're most interested in? Or, are you having a hard time seeing the value of Windows Server 2008 over Windows Server 2003 R2?

TechExec2
TechExec2

. [i]"You've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk?"[/i] Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry [b][i]"...Which of the Windows Server 2008 features could potentially have the biggest impact on your network?..."[/i][/b] Answer: Windows Server 2008 WGA capricious de-activation and "reduced functionality mode". The Microsoft stalwarts will scoff. Tell that to the people who have cried out for help on the "Windows Vista Validation Issues Forum" (1). A small sampling appears below. There are thousands of other posts, and I expect that most people having trouble never posted to the forum at all. The fact is, every copy of Windows ships with a new WGA "bomb" hidden inside it. It is only supposed to explode when Windows is stolen. But, it goes off on legitimate customers too. You never know when it will go off on you. How many times per year will your servers running Windows Server 2008 de-activate on you? How much downtime will you suffer? How much downtime will your executives tolerate before heads start to roll? [b]Immediate "reduced functionality mode". Cannot copy work from laptop.[/b] [i]"...I just got back from a trip and my Vista is telling me that it is not a genuine copy. A black screen comes up and there is no desktop and no icons. I would consider reloading everything but all the work I did last week would be gone. The work is in offline synchronized folders and I haven't been able to synchronize the folders. I can't lose that work! How can I fix Vista? Scott..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1420290&SiteID=25 [b]Repeatedly asked for activation[/b] [i]"...Hello, I have a legal copy of vista which came with my Laptop, but every once in a while, I get a windows pop up saying: "The Windows Vista Home Premium product key you typed is invalid for activation" All I have these 3 options (1) Use the automated phone system (2) Buy a new product key online (3)Type a different product key. Pls suggest me..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1420290&SiteID=25 [b]Unable to validate Vista Ultimate[/b] [i]"...The main problem right now is that I cannot get Windows to validate my Vista Ultimate operating system and it won't accept my product key as valid. The HP tech replaced my motherboard yesterday, but now my computer "does not support the system recovery disks" purchased from HP. If I can work around the validation and product key issues, maybe I would not have to do a system recovery at all. What should I do?..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1601969&SiteID=25 [b]Valid Vista is "invalid"[/b] [i]"...I have had continuous problems with my OEM installation of Vista. I bought my computer in January of this year, and since then have had to reinstall Vista twice. Each time resulting in a message telling me my copy of Windows Vista is invalid. it gives me the options of buying a new key, typing a different key, or contacting eMachines about the problem. I've searched the forums and found others with this problem, but no solutions. I did the Windows validation and it told me it could not validate my copy at this time. There was a grayed error code in the bottom of the message: [0xC004C4A8]..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1596455&SiteID=25 [b]Microsoft Update Services triggers invalidation[/b] [i]"...Hello - my version of vista was fully validated and i was having no probelms. however, today i installed an optional update (via the microsoft update service) for my nvidia serial ata. now my vista say it is no longer validated - and when i try to update it says i am using a different computer (which i am not). When i use system restore vista becomes validated once again. the update to my Sata driver makes a clear improovement in my system ( ! ), so i would like to keep it - is there a work arround?..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1312063&SiteID=25 [b]Automated phone activation hangs up on him - 2 days left to activate[/b] [i]"...re-installed update, phoned to re-activate and then was told that my liscence only allowed me to install on one computer- particularly annoying because thats all i have done. The automated phone machine then hung up on me. what shoudl i do next - i now have 2 days to activate my copy of windows, unless i use system restore to remove the update - then i am a bit slower but my pc is magically activated again! is there any other way to get my copy activated and keep the driver update?..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1312063&SiteID=25 [b]Windows Update triggers de-activation with ONE (1) day notice for a developer with a MSDN Universal subscription[/b] [i]"...I just encountered this exact error. Downloaded the nForce 4 SATA driver update from Windows Update a few days prior and about 5 minutes ago Vista notified me that I need to reactivate due to major hardware changes. Obviously nothing has changed. I'm running Vista Ultimate RTM from my MSDN Universal subscription. Thankfully, I was able to do a reactivation online. The strange part is that [u]Vista said I only had 1 day left to activate but I only just received the message[/u]. I'm a huge Microsoft supporter/developer and love Vista, but this validation issue really needs to be addressed (and yes I have the update that fixes the potential random reactivation requests.) I know why the driver caused the motherboard to appear different to Vista, but since Vista driver support for various onboard controllers is weak right now, a lot of people are going to run into this issue when they finally get a update drivers for their controllers/chipsets/on-board devices/etc. Not good..."[/i] He says "this validation issue really needs to be addressed". Very well said. http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1312063&SiteID=25 [b]Windows Update triggers de-activation every time. Afraid to install driver updates.[/b] [i]"...I installed the same update and got the same re-activation request. I got it cleared up via a phone call but this is going to be very annoying if it happens everytime I install the wrong driver. I noticed Nvida has an entire package of Nforce 4 drivers for vista now but I hate to attempt a install after this experience..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1312063&SiteID=25 [b]Windows Update triggers de-activation[/b] [i]"...Its good to know i am am not the only one - on my second attempt to re-activate by phone (this time during working hours!) I was able to re-activate , but it does make me a bit wary about further updates...thanks for your solution tho, at least I can still use vista!..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1312063&SiteID=25 [b]BIOS update triggers de-activation and IMMEDIATE reduced functionality mode. OEM help available only M-F 9-6[/b] [i]"...My Sony Vaio notebook recieved a bios update yesterday, once the machine had rebooted my OEM copy of Vista was deactivated. I am only given three options: 1. Access your computer with reduced functionality. 2. Type a different product key 3. Contact Sony Corporation to help resolve this problem. I have tried contacting Sony but I have had no response yet and their telephone service is only open Monday to Friday 9am to 6pm which doesnt help me when I need to use my pc this weekend! I have read all comments about what to do in this situation and all say to call the microsoft activation number, but I am not given this option on my notebook and so have no access to the telephone number which is not published anywhere online. Does anyone know the number I need to call to activate Vista please? Many thanks. Ryan..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1312063&SiteID=25 [b]Another BIOS update triggers de-activation. Rude telephone help.[/b] [i]"...I have just gone through the same problem for the same reason. It is annoying enough to have to call everytime I update something but it was particularly irksome in that the person on the other end of the line was rude and when I requested to speak with her supervisor she hung up. Definitely not good public relations..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1312063&SiteID=25 [b]After 90 days, Microsoft wants $59 to provide assistance. 3 days until "reduced functionality mode"[/b] [i]"...I have tried this 3 times so far. I have gotten the "I'm sorry, I can not activate your copy of Windows now, please let me transfer you to a customer service (yadda, yadda, ya)...", and each time the phone hangs up on me. I tried the "slui 4" trick, it gives me the EXACT same #'s as before, and she still tells me there is nothing she can do and hangs up on me. I have been using the slow MS ATA drivers for my nForce4 SATA ports, I got the Windows Automatic update today at about 3am and noticed my "3 days left" this afternoon. Since I have owned Vista for more than 90 days, I get no free help...they want $59 for this(I tried to talk to a REAL person either in chat or phone). Is there going to be a fix in the next 2 days? I would hate to lose all my files and go back to XP..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1312063&SiteID=25 [b]Spontaneous de-activation with 3 days until "reduced functionality mode". Reactivated by phone. Still de-activates daily now.[/b] [i]"...Hi there, I have an OEM copy of Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64Bit for my computer which i have installed with no issues. I validated the copy of windows (however it was before the 30th if this is an issue?) And inside of a day the system had decided it had a hardware change and de-activated itself. and would need re-activating within 3 days. So i tried to re-activate from within windows, and obviously it wouldn't let me i called up the given toll free number and got it re-activated. This cycle is repeating within a day of the system being activated every time i call up to get it done. which has been done i believe 4 or 5 times now i can't remember for certain. i tried the validation thing on the WGA site that is linked to and it works fine. but the system panel in control panel still says it needs to be activated within 3 days and i get the balloon message also stating this on occasion. No hardware changes have been made to the system at any time in between activation and de-activations. i note that a patch was released to address this issue? but even after installing that, and re-activating this-morning i still got a de-activation message this evening tell me it needs activating again. any help would be great as i really don't want to have to keep calling up every 3 days just to keep my OS happy. thanks, Mark..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1170769&SiteID=25 [b]Four (4) hours on the phone trying to get activated. Has tried 6 or 7 times.[/b] [i]"...Ahhhhh!!! I spent 4 hours on the phone yesterday with various tech support at microsoft regarding this. One conversation alone lasted 3 hours, with the same person trying diffrent things to resolve the problem. They are calling me back tonight to continue the investigation. So at least I now know whats happening. I have the same issue, with the same RAID controller (I have a nForce4 SLI mother board using AMD processor, same model as above....) Ive lost count how many times they tried to reactivate me over the phone, 6 or 7 times I think. Although I am using the 32 bit edition, not the 64bit. Is there any KB article about this that I can point out to the microsoft tech thats going to call me later. Is there any techincal info regarding the actual problem so I can understand the cause myself..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1170769&SiteID=25 [b]Fine for a couple of months, then validation problems[/b] [i]"...After running fine for a couple of months, fo the past few days I started getting validation errors. I get either the flavor where only the validation error popup occurs and the rest of the screen is black or a more thorough logon where I get the Windows Aero is disabled..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1581379&SiteID=25 [b]E-mail delivery frustrations trying to get help[/b] [i]"...Could someone help me. A support engineer contacted me via e-mail last week requesting additional information. I e-mailed her back with what she had requested (at least what I was able to get). After two days I finally heard back. But her e-mail just said she hadn't heard from me and wondered what was happening. I replied again. Then I forwarded my original response. I had also forwarded to her the spsys.log that was requested by a program manager in response to my posting here. This morning I got an e-mail from the original support engineer saying that since she hadn't heard from me, she was closing the ticket. Very frustating! Is there any other way to contact support? I know my e-mail is working since the e-mail with the spsys.log file was acknowledged by the program manager that requested it and the support person was cc-ed. Jeff..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1581379&SiteID=25 [b]New notebook fine for two weeks, then "not genuine"[/b] [i]"...I bought a notebook computer with Windows Vista Home Premium already downloaded, it is an HP. The problem is that about two weeks after purchasing it, I began to get a notification that my copy of Windows is not genuine. I went through the telephone activation process, but then failed the validation process. Also, my product key does not match the key on the sticker on the bottom of the notebook..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1571418&SiteID=25 [b]Genuine Windows Vista is "not genuine"[/b] [i]"...My windows vista validation system is not working. I allready typed serial number of my product into the system. System return windows with this entry: This copy of Windows is not genuie. But it is. My activation is vorking but Aero system doesn't. Best regards!...[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1522485&SiteID=25 [b]Genuine Vista and genuine Office. Hard drive upgrade. Not genuine anymore.[/b] [i]"...Good morning, all. This applies to VISTA, of course, but also to OFFICE and VISIO and PROJECT. [ALL of these were legal and activated and working properly before this error popped up] Let's start with VISTA first: Everything is legal and above board. It was working "perfectly" before I ran out of space on my laptop. I used released (not beta) NORTON GHOST 12 (also legal) to copy my hard drive partitions and then installed a brand new much larger disk and recovered my images. It is working exactly as before (but lots faster now that it has room to breathe). I should note that this hard drive is the single drive on a Sony Vaio Laptop. Sadly, that seems to have confused WGA very badly. The error I am getting now is "0xC004C4A6"..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1572010&SiteID=25 [b]Validation problems after minor hardware upgrade[/b] [i]"...Hi everyone, I have 3 computers running windows vista home premium OEM, 2 pc's and one laptop, all with a different OEM versions of windows vista, ALL paid for!! No trouble on 1 pc and my laptop. However, on my other PC, which I have recently updated some minor hardware (DVD-rom player and an extra HDD) I'm having trouble with validation... I've re-installed my Vista on this machine and there is no trouble activating and validating windows, it says it is activated and genuine. However, when I go to download center on microsoft.com to download mobile device center for my pocket pc, it asks to validate my windows. So I do. Then I get the message my windows needs to be activated before validating. My windows says it is activated, so I cannot validate. I've tried phone activating, but this didn't work... Today I re-installed windows again and all was fine... I even got to download the mobile device center driver from download centre (so validation worked at this point). When I tried another download it suddenly said my windows needed to be validated and again it told me it needed to be activated first... My question is, is this a bug in the WGA site or in windows vista WGA or is it I'm doing something wrong??? I paid for all this and now I've got nothing... thank you for every help available..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1565186&SiteID=25 [b]Validation suddenly fails after 4 months during Windows Update[/b] [i]"...This morning I had a message that my copy of Vista failed validation during the scheduled Windows update overnight. I ran the diagnostic tool and it shows my status as genuine, however the online validator won't pass it..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1564140&SiteID=25 [b]New PC from Best Buy. Windows is "not genuine"[/b] [i]"...Hi! I bought a pc at Best Buy just over 30 days ago and I am getting a message that says "This copy of Microsoft Window is not genuine." When I try to validate it says "The validation service is unable to determine whether this copy of window is genuine." This doesn't seem likely since it was purchased at Best Buy. I do NOT remember the pc ever asking me to activate Windows at any time. Here is my code from the validation service: [0xC004C4A8] Do you have any ideas? Thank you! LS..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1533068&SiteID=25 [b]Got Vista direct from Microsoft. Activated OK. "Not genuine" weeks later. Immediate "reduced functionality mode".[/b] [i]"...I'm getting that same message on a copy I know to be legit: it was sent to me directly from Microsoft as part of the action pack program. Oddly enough, I was able to activate the OS when I first installed it, then several weeks later I get messages saying it wasn't activated! The wizard then says the copy is not genuine! ???? I don't see how I can run that diagnostic tool, either-- Vista won't let me do ANYTHING but try vainly to activate/authenticate... EDIT: I tried phone activation. No go...[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1533068&SiteID=25 --------------------------------------- (1) Windows Vista Validation Issues Forum http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowForum.aspx?ForumID=1004&SiteID=25

dominicolom
dominicolom

So how soon will people run to get this product???? LOL!

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

they should consider realeasing new OSs that are actually new and not just fancy service packs to previous releases. Xp is just 2000 with some patches and gui updates. Vista is XP with some new features. I would say NT was the last "new" os MS released. There is a reason Win 2000 is still in use in so many buisnesses, Xp and Vista do not provide enough to justify the cost of upgrading.

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

precessors are lower in performance then eight single core processors. In some cases, the multicore actually lowers performance over a faster single core processor. But, as a generality, multicore processosrs will perform better ina buisness environment then single cores.

rkuhn040172
rkuhn040172

Linux never needs rebooting? What planet do you live on?

jasonhiner
jasonhiner

I think reboot-less patching is a big goal for Microsoft developers, but it's going to take more development and simplification of the OS before it's possible. Right now I think there are way too many dependencies among services to make it possible. But I'm no programming expert.

brunocustodio
brunocustodio

Fast, reliable access is important, although if I had to choose, I would side with security. A minor data transmission delay is something I can live with if I can sleep at night knowing my network and servers are safe.

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

and better scripting through power shell are both very powerrful features that they borrowed from that other OS that "can't compete" with MS. And I think its about dern time MS made this move. Also, read only DCs will be very useful in certain circumstances.

wilko
wilko

I'll be glad to finally see Windows servers without a GUI - only real question is why on earth it's taken them so long to do it. Other than that it's pretty much of little interest. The most eagerly awaited add on was Viridian but now that's been watered down and won't have the abilty to move a running server it's pretty much useless.

Nunya Bidnez
Nunya Bidnez

Reduced functionality mode in Vista is vastly different than reduced functionality mode in Windows Server 2008. Maybe if you're gonna title this as a Windows Server 2008 "issue" and then go scraping the Internet for examples of how horrible and crippling it is, you should at least get the OS right.

dwain.erhart
dwain.erhart

According to Microsoft, the issue (in this instance) has something to do with a driver from Silicon Images (SI). This driver - once updated should help to cure the problem. By the way - this tech issue is rather old and I wonder if an official fix has come down the pipe at this time.

NOW LEFT TR
NOW LEFT TR

So you but a car fitted with an alarm and immobiliser. This way of it is stolen or hotwired it will fail and alarms will start ringing. I don?t see people not buying cars on the premise the alarm system / immobiliser may fail and activate for no reason as it happens all the time! Number of car alarms that go off for no reason is far higher then the number of WGA incidents.

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

Aspirin... Anyone have aspirin? Visine? I can pay for it. Whiskey will work good too. Edited to add that your "street cred's" are losing ground with such verbose replies. Losing ground with me anyhow. What are your replies now? A gazillion words in response to a thousand? Give it a bit of rest TE2. You're an absolutely brilliant man (no jest) who has shown evidence of flaws in several MS products and pointed out possible/obvious bias for some of TR's bloggers but seriously, you could have taken a breather after the Dirty Harry quote. Just my opinion. Your mileage may vary.

jasonhiner
jasonhiner

:-) I have to admit that I'm not a big fan of product activation either. It's similar to DRM because it usually ends up penalizing the people who actually do play by the rules.

jasonhiner
jasonhiner

I'm just interested to see if there are any features that IT pros are anticipating. Or, if it's hard to see much value for Windows Server 2008 over Windows Server 2003 R2.

TechExec2
TechExec2

. Thanks for your post, but... Microsoft cannot blame the explosion on who accidentally touched the bomb. There would not be any explosion at all if Microsoft did not hide a bomb in Windows. There is a gas leak in the house! Chernobyl is radioactive! THERE IS A BOMB IN WINDOWS! Microsoft is amazingly stupid for weaving a bomb into the fabric of Windows in order to deter the pirates. This sets it off today. That sets it off tomorrow. It's always somebody else's fault according to Microsoft. I won't be running an operating system with a live bomb in it. It amazes me the kinds of abuse that people voluntarily sign up for. Just amazing. Hello, Bangalore? My Windows is de-activated... Maybe Toyota should hide a bomb in each car and truck to get Toyotas off the "most stolen car" list (1). Great solution! I have looked past ALL of the Microsoft nonsense up until now. Abusive anti-competitive business practices. Lock-in. High prices. Forced upgrades. Now I have to tolerate capricious de-activation because $44 BILLION per year in sales is not enough? I don't buy from vendors that abuse me like that. If Microsoft completely removes the bomb, then we can talk. Until then, forget it. P.S. Leaving Windows is only scary until you actually do it. ------------------------------------- (1) Toyota announces the TOYOTA GENUINE ADVANTAGE Program - Satire http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=212977&messageID=2191699

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

If your car just refused to start untill you called GM or Toyota or Honda several times in a week or so, what would you do? If windows just poped up a window and said, "Oops! Your aer not valid!" and that was it, it would be a fair comparison to the alarm. If your car alarm goes off, you stop it. If it disables the starter, you hit the magic key code, and all good. Vista is not like that, the consumer has no control. If Vista de-activates, I cant just wave my magic wand and have it all better. I cant just click a buton or enter a number and have it fixed. I have to contact MS to have them FIX IT FOR ME. Now, if I had a recurring problem with my car, and mechanics repetedly said "Its fixed now!" And the problem kept appearing, I would assume several things: 1) the car is a total lemon, POS, and should be made redundant asap; 2) The mechanics I have been using are either crooks or incompetent; 3) Both 1 and 2 are true. So the fact that my OS may jsut randomly quite and accuse me of software piracy is acceptable? This is a product on uninformed consumerism. People just assume "its only me." Activation has been as effective at stopping piracy as DRm has stoped music tradeing, i.e. not at all. Every night as I go to bed, I thank God for Spammers and Windows Product Activation; the two greatest inventions of our modern age, without which I would have lost all hope in the sensibility and dignity of mankind.

TechExec2
TechExec2

. Am I boring you, dude? So, you think I write like Joe Biden talks? So, you think of this kid (1) whenever you read my posts about Microsoft, Vista, and George Ou? :^0 --------------------------------- (1) Seriously deranged German kid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBVmfIUR1DA

TechExec2
TechExec2

. The voices of the victims speak a lot louder than my opinion can. I cannot imagine buying a car with a flawed theft deterrent system that shuts off the engine whenever the car thinks it has been stolen. If literally millions of people were reporting capricious engine shutdowns, with the dashboard flashing "Your car has been stolen", that car would be off my list no matter how much I liked other aspects of it. It would make it worse if the car maker were so clueless as to admit that there are "under 1%" false positives like Microsoft does about XP's WGA failure rate (1). Vista's WGA is much more aggressive and will fail a lot more often. I think Microsoft's WGA capricious de-activation is stunningly stupid, completely unacceptable, and I won't tolerate it. --------------------------------- (1) Windows Genuine Advantage falsely accuses millions (..."under 1%"...) http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070124-8690.html

mg_roberts
mg_roberts

i've been using Longhorn beta3 and i've become a huge fan of the core installation feature. in my opinion that is an excellent step in the right direction.

TechExec2
TechExec2

. You are a smart guy (even if you do live in "Scotch Land" where they build the castles too close to the train stations :^0 ). You know why I mention the $44 BILLION in sales. [b][i]"...the amount a company makes has a bearing because..."[/i][/b] ...because Microsoft claims they have a piracy problem that justifies their stupid WGA program that de-activates millions of legitimate customers. Since Microsoft sells $44 BILLION per year (and projecting $50 BILLION this year), how big of a problem can it really be? I don't object to something like the one-time (except for major hardware changes) product activation in XP. It is capricious product de-activation triggered by regular use of a computer that is unacceptable. Microsoft just doesn't know when they have a really good thing going and have gone too far. Your medical analogy does not apply. I'm not refusing a needed product. I'm refusing a needed product that comes with too much collateral damage in favor of another one that does the job well and does not have the problem that I object to. If Windows were the only operating system in the world, I would still be using it (...and you think I am pissed off [u]now[/u]! :^0 ).

NOW LEFT TR
NOW LEFT TR

That is not the issue here - the amount a company makes has a bearing because?? I assume you use no medical / medicine products. Now there lies an even greater abuse of this kind of power (and how / more). Would you really not use a product just because the makers are rich and do not let others produce the product specs???

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

is actually very easy. my last 2 hurdles were getting uTorrent and Diabli 2 running under wine, which I have now done. I have no NEED for windows for anything except humor and research for problems at work (if i break THIS, what happens...). Read your Vista EULA, look at the MS stance on Trusted Computing Platform (hint..its not the end user who gets the most "security" from the "trusted" platform. Read hardware DRM.) Vista has potential to be an excellent OS (yes I know its MS, but security is not the ONLY requirement in an OS), but MS has decided that accidental inconvenience to legitimate customers is acceptable if it reduces piracy. Good luck MS. All you managed to do is irritate a larg chunk of your loayal fan base, and alienate a chunk of not-so-loyal-but-legal users. In order for MS to keep "growing" they have to eliminate piracy, they can not really saturate the market in more ways and amounts then they have, except in those countries with over 85% piracy rates. And we, the leagal users are paying the cost of MS's campaigne.

Absolutely
Absolutely

[i]I have looked past ALL of the Microsoft nonsense up until now. Abusive anti-competitive business practices. Lock-in. High prices. Forced upgrades. Now I have to tolerate capricious de-activation because $44 BILLION per year in sales is not enough? I don't buy from vendors that abuse me like that.[/i] I had a pretty good idea, years ago, they were treating their business partners, well, not as I would like to be treated, let's say. I bought their products anyway, based on some "free market" assumptions which turn out not to apply to a monopoly. [i]Mea culpa[/i].

rkuhn040172
rkuhn040172

Copy/paste, Copy/Paste. Give it a rest. Thanks for all the examples. Now, should I start showing you all the examples out there of people who believe in aliens from Mars, that Elvis is still alive, Kennedy was killed by the Mafia, Hitler is alive and well in Argentina... Come on. For the love of God, stick to the topic. Can you say anything good or bad about MS other than talking about WGA 24/7?

Absolutely
Absolutely

Imagine it: you're a legitimate user, and your activation key is "acquired" by an illegitimate one. Because you are [b]the[/b] legitimate user of that key, [b]you[/b] report the theft, so that [b]your[/b] computer stops throwing up error messages at you. The thief, by definition, would be the user with the same activation key, who has [b]not reported[/b] the same error messages being thrown up at them -- they will be trying to continue working, through the warnings, because they will not have the [b]proof of original purchase[/b], which is what Microsoft should use, instead of their foolish holograms, to establish validity.

TechExec2
TechExec2

. Here's one example: [i]"...Hi there, I have an OEM copy of Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64Bit for my computer which i have installed with no issues. I validated the copy of windows (however it was before the 30th if this is an issue?) And inside of a day the system had decided it had a hardware change and de-activated itself. and would need re-activating within 3 days. So i tried to re-activate from within windows, and obviously it wouldn't let me i called up the given toll free number and got it re-activated. This cycle is repeating within a day of the system being activated every time i call up to get it done. which has been done i believe 4 or 5 times now i can't remember for certain. i tried the validation thing on the WGA site that is linked to and it works fine. but the system panel in control panel still says it needs to be activated within 3 days and i get the balloon message also stating this on occasion. No hardware changes have been made to the system at any time in between activation and de-activations. i note that a patch was released to address this issue? but even after installing that, and re-activating this-morning i still got a de-activation message this evening tell me it needs activating again. any help would be great as i really don't want to have to keep calling up every 3 days just to keep my OS happy. thanks, Mark..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1170769&SiteID=25

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

but the point is valid. We put ip with issues from computers that we would not put up with in a car or a house. What if your roof leaked only every 100th rain? Or your car would once every month or so force you to call a mechanic to "activate" it? Personaly, activation errors on the scale we are seeing, even by MS's own reports, are unaceptable in a professional environment, and unacceptable to me personally. My car had problems with its Pass-Lock (tm) system. I had it repaired. 2 weeks latter, I was headed to an important meeting, and my Pass-Lock kicked in again. I was over 45 min late. I did some rsearch and found that less then 1% of the installed pass-lock systems bugged out and would randomly lock up "if there is lint on the key or if the key as been worn with use". I traded the car in a day latter for a car from a different manufacturer. My car is a means of transportation, if it is not reliable, its useless. Why should my computer or OS be different? I expect it to work, its that simple. Crashes from bad drivers or buggy software I cant blame on Windows, and do not blame on windows. I have had very little problems over the years by carful selection of drivers and software, but having my computer "deactivate" for adding or removing a USB stick, or a hard drive, or a video card is not acceptable. I can understand if relaibility is not important to you, and that "Its someone elses problem" as well as "It won't happen to me." But the fact of the matter is, this will not stop piracy, and MS has not learned. What will WGA look like in its next incarnation? Already, MS knows evertime a Vista machine connected to the internet boots up, it has to phone home to validate. Not a big deal? Good, glad privacy is not a concern you have. WGA is a mix of lowered reliability, invasion of privacy, and increased attack surface. Their is no positive value for the end-user, and significant negative impact. If you do not feel this is the case, read the MS WGA boards. People are a wee bit upset. Another good read is Alex Kochis's blog, as a senior software developer at MS, he may have a clue whats going on."about 1 in 5 of the 300 million PCs that have run WGA validation fail." Are those good odds? 20%?

TechExec2
TechExec2

. You're safe from monsters when you're under the covers? You're safe from Microsoft Vista with your head in the sand? [b][i]"...Show me the evidence that the WGA activation issue has happened to a person several times in 7 days. I would say once - then perhaps not again or at least a lot further down the line..."[/i][/b] It's amazing what some people are willing to tolerate! Now it's OK if Vista only de-activates every so often?! WTF?! The evidence you requested...is EASY to find: [i]"...Hi there, I have an OEM copy of Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64Bit for my computer which i have installed with no issues. I validated the copy of windows (however it was before the 30th if this is an issue?) And inside of a day the system had decided it had a hardware change and de-activated itself. and would need re-activating within 3 days. So i tried to re-activate from within windows, and obviously it wouldn't let me i called up the given toll free number and got it re-activated. This cycle is repeating within a day of the system being activated every time i call up to get it done. which has been done i believe 4 or 5 times now i can't remember for certain. i tried the validation thing on the WGA site that is linked to and it works fine. but the system panel in control panel still says it needs to be activated within 3 days and i get the balloon message also stating this on occasion. No hardware changes have been made to the system at any time in between activation and de-activations. i note that a patch was released to address this issue? but even after installing that, and re-activating this-morning i still got a de-activation message this evening tell me it needs activating again. any help would be great as i really don't want to have to keep calling up every 3 days just to keep my OS happy. thanks, Mark..."[/i] http://forums.microsoft.com/genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=1170769&SiteID=25

NOW LEFT TR
NOW LEFT TR

Show me the evidence that the WGA activation issue has happened to a person several times in 7 days. I would say once - then perhaps not again or at least a lot further down the line.

OnTheRopes
OnTheRopes

Keywords: "your writing". To have a reasonable chance of my seeing your point I'll usually wade thru all of pasted stuff and the links you provide but once in awhile I can feel my eyes start to glaze over and my brain start shutting down all unnecessary functions.

NaughtyMonkey
NaughtyMonkey

Apparently he had somehow gotten a volume license copy with KMS installed on his machine at home. When it tried to activate and couldn't it shut down. He sent the computer back and when it came back with a MAK key, it hasn't happened since.

jasonhiner
jasonhiner

Microsoft want to be able to control this high-margin business. I have to think that the OS is eventually going to be a low margin business and Microsoft is going to have to make its money off the applications and services that run on top of it. However, for that to happen, there needs to be a stronger competitor in the OS platform market. If Google and Apple could team up, this could get interesting, as I wrote here: http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=465 But that's on the desktop and not the server.

shardeth-15902278
shardeth-15902278

They could reduce their cost substantially, without even touching their margin just by stopping all development of antipiracy measures. They could all combine a small fraction of their current antipriacy marketing and litigation dollars and establish a watchdog group that handled those efforts for all companies (plenty of cost synergies, though many lawyers will get RIF'ed, so we'd need to find some way to help them become productive members of society again). ;) They would, also reduce their helpdesk costs, by eliminating all of the calls listed in this thread. It seems like such an obvious win-win, so why is it they can't 'see the light?'

Absolutely
Absolutely

I should have started reading this thread sooner. A local used car salesman has a similar bad reputation; shafted buyers frequently hold signs on the sidewalk in front of his lot and I noticed a sign referring to the same shady con-man in a colleague's car window yesterday. Spreading the word about shoddy workmanship, false advertising, and unethical business practices is the only way for the market to cease rewarding cheaters. Unfortunately, our advertising budget is not as large as theirs!

jasonhiner
jasonhiner

I was still editing my post. I actually removed the "exaggeration" part. Believe me, I understand where you're coming from. Back when Windows XP and product activation were first released in 2001, I was a huge opponent of the whole thing. And I wrote a lot about how much I thought it was a horrible idea. I eventually migrated to XP but I've never really warmed up to product activation.

TechExec2
TechExec2

. From (1): [i]"...Microsoft said that WGA had a false positive rate "under 1 percent."..."[/i] [i]"...More than 22 percent of over 500 million systems that were subjected to the browser-based validation scheme were identified as invalid copies of Windows..."[/i] [i]"...as many as 5 million people were wrongly accused of being software pirates..."[/i] These figures are for Windows XP's WGA. Vista's WGA is much more aggressive and will have a much higher false positive rate. I really cannot have any sympathy for Microsoft. It was their choice to permit so much collateral damage in WGA, their solution to the "severe" piracy problem that limited them to "just" $44 BILLION in sales last year. Microsoft should be doing a much better job of ensuring WGA does not de-activate legitimate customers. I'll bet they would quickly find a way to fix the bugs in their billing system if it failed to charge 1 out of every 100 customers. ------------------------------------- (1) Windows Genuine Advantage falsely accuses millions http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070124-8690.html

jasonhiner
jasonhiner

I feel that programs like DRM and WGA usually end up hurting the people that play by the rules more than the pirates. If Microsoft simply made Windows less expensive, then most consumers wouldn't hesitate to shell out $40 to buy the upgrade or $75 to buy the whole OS (the top of the line version). The people who really want to get around the rules and not pay will usually figure out how, no matter what. The others will pay a small cost in order the headaches and guilt of skirting the rules.

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

but the gui-less install is perfect for web servers and read-only domain controllers on older hardware, or even a dns/dhcp server. Shoot, any database server woulkd benefit from the lack of gui.

NaughtyMonkey
NaughtyMonkey

I love the core install as well, but it is a pain to setup. If you could install the GUI and then remove it it would make it alot easier to setup but get rid of the resource pigs later.

Dumphrey
Dumphrey

turn on and off the gui or just install with or without the gui?