Software

TR member loses seven years of data with openSUSE

Find out why TR member Jaqui thinks Novell's SuSE (both openSUSE and SuSE Linux Enterprise) is a "do not even think about using for business" distribution. Do you trust Novell?
This post was written by TechRepublic member Jaqui.

I installed the latest version of the openSUSE distro 11.3 on Saturday, September 18, 2010. This had a couple of pleasant surprises. For example, they got rid of the idiocy of requiring a full lamp stack just because you want to install an application to edit web site scripts. They also fixed the glitch that stopped the installer from reversing the mouse buttons.

Unfortunately, there were two critical failures, one that makes openSUSE a “do not even think about using for business” distribution.

Failure 1: Why, for a consumer-targeted distribution, does it not include full wireless support? Rarely are people buying systems and physically plugging in network cables very often any more. The required wireless networking needs to be included by default on the install media. Failure 2: Why on earth was a primary partition on a second physical hard drive on the system included into a Logical Volume Manager (LVM) by default when LVM was not requested? Furthermore, it was done in such a way as to destroy the 500 GB of data on that hard drive.

openSUSE, by its decision to put the primary partition of my backup hard drive into an LVM, destroyed seven years of data. Way to go Novell, screwing with legally required record keeping. The only way I even found out it had messed with an LVM was because of the failure of the distro to include wireless networking support. When I looked at Fedora 12, it showed me the LVM.

The less-critical failure that makes openSUSE -- and naturally, by extension, SuSe Linux Enterprise (SLED) -- a “no go” is the horrid configuration of KDE4. The “plasmoid” on the desktop that looks like a file manager window is required for the KDE4 config. Sorry, but I’m not interested in having a file manager window open to be able to use a desktop. Never mind the ugliness of the entire KDE4 UI – there’s an absolute lack of usability and lack of configure ability in KDE4 (hmm… reminds me of both Windows and Mac OS, which both have useless unchangeable user interfaces).

Okay, openSUSE isn't SLED, but it has the same relationship to it as Fedora Core has to Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). It's Debian unstable (with no Debian testing stage between unstable and stable), and Novell should have warned users that it does things like including primary partitions into a LVM group when LVM was never asked for. The relationship makes Novell's commercial product suspect now. How well can it be trusted when its development branch destroys data from idiotic configuration defaults?

[Update 9/20/10: Due to the overwhelming response about backing up data in the discussion thread, this comment from Jaqui that accompanied his email submission is pertinent: "I barely got my system running and updated since the incident and wrote this for TR immediately. Now to see if my habit of burning to CD/DVD will allow me to reconstruct the data that's gone."]

About

Sonja Thompson has worked for TechRepublic since October of 1999. She is currently a Senior Editor and the host of the Smartphones and Tablets blogs.

140 comments
VolkerBause
VolkerBause

And I thought my 8 Terrabyte of Backups made 3 months ago were way outdated!? Speaking of idiocy: Guess who the real idiot is? In my personal opinion, well done. Congratulations! LOL! I guess you are a blond despite your profile picture. What ticks me off is the OpenSUSE bashing when it is clear as daylight, even for a novice who the real idiot is. Taking into consideration that she even dares to report this incident of absolute stupidity clearly indicates her IQ. Personally I would be so embarresed I would stick my head in the ground like an ostridge hoping nobody found out what I just did.

jvaughn86
jvaughn86

Hey you can retrieve all the deleted data on that drive using NTFS undelete software. Some of the items close to the end and the start of the old partition wont be recovered but you should get most of it back.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Sorry to hear it Jaqui, I managed a few Novell SuSE systems when it first came out ( I think Netware was at v5.5 or 6 then) that's just after I got my MCNE. Thrifty Foods used it all over the Island when they were first taking over all the IGA stores through the interior. Not really problematic for them, we put a massive fibre system in and ran high end VoIP hardware to connect key Island offices, it was a really big deal at that time (circa 2005?). I think it was ditched after a few years, that's when I moved back here from Port Hardy. I felt like the Maytag man though, didn't get called much and when I did it was usually a nice drive down Island anyway. anyhoot, that was all very relevant, wasn't it? My point is, it was a while back and it seemed okay on a large rollout, but times change and I am sure SuSE has changed a lot since then too, sorry you lost your data mate, good luck restoring!

r_widell
r_widell

With whatever script engine they're using. In 11.3 it appears to be something called perl-Bootloader, in 11.2 it was called something else. Nevertheless, 11.3 recently saved my bacon. I did an in-place upgrade of an 11.1 system. Since it seems (to me) best to not bypass release stages, I upgraded to 11.2 prior to upgrading to 11.3. Unfortunately, the script engine error in 11.2 YAST created a condition where none of the file systems would mount, so it stopped at a root shell. I still couldn't mount the file systems from there as it said they were already mounted, but it wouldn't let me unmount them because it said they weren't mounted. I tried the "repair a broken system" option on the DVD with no joy. Before restoring from backup, I decided to try upgrading from the broken 11.2 to 11.3, and it worked! BTW, 11.3 upgrade does provide the option to review (and modify or not) the drive partitioning and volume management. BTW2, I agree whole heartedly with the comments re. KDE 4.4. Mandriva has done the world a great service by eliminating the Plasmoid Desktop redundancy. ron

mgrady
mgrady

Well if the person knew what they were doing it would be different. The same would have happened with any OS being loaded. I am surprised TR would give this "article" on stupidity the time of day.

cquirke
cquirke

Yes, perhaps it will attract more readers, and perhaps you can smugly write the issue off as "user failure". But PCs exist to serve users, not the other way round, so it's good if such issues are brought to light.

frtillman
frtillman

are you not embarrassed to claim that you lost 7 years worth of work? What a DUFUS you must be go work at Taco Bell. NEVER NEVER N E V E R do ANYTHING to a system UNLESS you can go back to where you started Please supply your name and contact so that IT people will know not to hire you.

pgit
pgit

..but...but no way you should be installing any OS with a drive load of critical data present. 101 :\

NexS
NexS

That's two I've seen from you in the past week. I don't regularly look through all the blogs, so you're on fire, mate. Good luck with the data reconstruction, though. Sheesh.

Oldmanmike
Oldmanmike

As pointed out by many commenters, openSUSE wasn't responsible for this data loss. Leave out the "with openSUSE" portion, and you're closer to the truth. TR is getting into a bad habit of using attention-grabbing headlines to get readers to click through. I don't think I'm alone in finding it more than just annoying now. Maybe change Tech Republic to Tech Enquirer so we know what we should expect? Jaqui, I'm sorry you went through this, and hope you've learned a lesson we all learn....... Backup, backup, backup. (And external drives or tapes are a little more convenient IMHO.)

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

Any new distro gets a VM install long before it goes on bare metal unless I'm dealing with a fresh machine. I did find OpenSUSE's installer less than intuitive though. Debian's partition manager during install took a few VM installs to become familiar with also but I was previously spoiled by Mandriva's partitioner.

Gis Bun
Gis Bun

As someone said, were there any backups? Jaqui is part to blame for not having any backups. I don't know anyone who doesn't back up their system before making any changes such as a service pack or an installation of an OS.

jospoortvliet
jospoortvliet

I was surprised to hear about Jacqui's experiences installing openSUSE, without looking at the installation it would be difficult to explain exactly what went wrong. However, I'd like to clarify that openSUSE is available out of the box with wireless support. openSUSE, as with most community distribution, supports the most common wireless configurations with the exception of a few proprietary wireless cards that do not offer open source drivers. Additionally, openSUSE does not use LVM by default, it only creates normal partitions. However, if the user already has an LVM setup, it will detect that and might suggest that it be used, but before any changes are made it will tell the user that it is going to make the changes. No data is erased or changes made until the user accepts the partitioning proposal. I'm sorry to hear about Jacqui's experience with this install. Let me remind openSUSE users that help is available at http://forums.opensuse.org/ and http://forums.opensuse.org/faq.php and we encourage users to get involved with this community to get help and help build a better distribution.

oldbaritone
oldbaritone

make backups. understand what you're doing. read warnings saying "all data will be erased." Do it. Then blame the OS. Computers do EXACTLY what they are INSTRUCTED to do, which may-or-may-not be what they were SUPPOSED to do.

albertop78
albertop78

There is a missing point in this discussion and a mistake. Missing point: what wireless card do you have, and what is the required driver? openSUSE ships all the open source wireless drivers which comply with the kernel license, as a consequence many wireless cards are supported out of the box (Intel, many broadcom model supported by the OSS drivers, ...). Of course, if you need the Broadcom STA driver, or other non-open drivers, which are *not* redistributable, you are out of lack. Some other distribution provides them, but it is not legal to do so. openSUSE never did that, and took the right decision. Mistake: YaST does not default to LVM on a standard system with only non-LVM partitions. It never did. You have to explicitly choose between "Partition based" and "LVM based" partitioning during the installation, and the default is the "Partition based" approach. Additionally, YaST marks in red all the operations that lead to data loss (formatting or removing a partition). It clearly cannot correct user's mistake if the user does not read however. To conclude, what happened is hardly openSUSE responsibility, but a user mistake due to distraction or incompetence.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

The Headline isn't the complete story. The Data was not lost just that particular Install of the OS. If anything here the Author is complaining about the way that Open SUSE or whatever it originally was did something unexpected. Probably much more importantly is the fact that that OS had been loaded for 7 years in whatever forms it had morphed into and when the newest Upgrade was applied it messed up and destroyed the entire Installed System. Yes I know that it would be unbelievable that any Windows System could stay loaded for 7 years so the story would be unbelievable but this was not a Windows OS it was a Nix OS and what is probably more important s that the hardware lasted that long. :D Now lets address your issues one by one. [i]And I thought my 8 Terrabyte of Backups made 3 months ago were way outdated!?[/i] It's only out of date if you have made any changes or additions to the stored Data. So if you have not done any work in the past 3 months it's unlikely to be outdated but if you have even changed 1 document then yes the 8 TB of Backup is defiantly outdated. ;) [i]Speaking of idiocy: Guess who the real idiot is?[/i] I don't know please expand. :D [i]In my personal opinion, well done. Congratulations! LOL! I guess you are a blond despite your profile picture.[/i] Sounds to me like attacking the person not the issues there so perhaps you should be a bit more careful. After all we don't want to have to slap your wrists with a wet towel do we. :^0 [i]What ticks me off is the OpenSUSE bashing when it is clear as daylight, even for a novice who the real idiot is.[/i] Sorry I have to disagree here when things change they do things differently. I've used several different Distro's and though not the Open Version of SUSE I do support the Paid For Version on a 6K CPU Blade used to do CG work for a movie maker. When you are used to doing things one way you expect thing to work the way that they have always worked not do something screwy. Now be perfectly honest if you are a Working IT Professional using any form of NIX on a regular basis do you honestly expect me to believe that you read everything that you are shown when Installing/Upgrading the OS? I suppose you'll insist that you fully read the EULA and so on for M$ Windows Products and the License Agreements for all Software that you install right? I certainly know my customers will not pay me to waste time like that but maybe you have customers who have money to waste right? :D [i]Taking into consideration that she even dares to report this incident of absolute stupidity clearly indicates her IQ.[/i] I saw this as a story about a Screw Up but as we are not all as perfect as you claim to be I suppose that something like this has never happened to you so you are incapable of understanding just how funny it is when things like this happen. :0 OH and BTW Jacqui is Male not Female some people get really nasty when they get accused of being a different gender to what they actually are. I just dropped that in so you could edit your post so it was not as offensive as it appears to be. [i]Personally I would be so embarresed I would stick my head in the ground like an ostridge hoping nobody found out what I just did.[/i] That is your right but to be perfectly honest all professionals do not measure themselves by what goes right but what goes wrong and they laugh at their mistakes. Probably much more importantly they pass on these mistakes and the consequences of them to their peers so that we are also aware of screwy things going on so that we don't have the same experience. But here I suppose you are way to insecure to help your peers and you would expect them to make the same mistakes as you do so that they can learn from their mistakes. Adults try to help others particularly when it saves them time. After all we all don't need to reinvent the wheel for everything that we do and part of the learning experience is learning from others. While it's your right to be [b]Totally Insecure[/b] it's not your right to carry on this way with people who are laughing at themselves in a [b]Hollier Than Though[/b] way that you have here. Perhaps you should reconsider what you write in Public Forums as things like the above have a tendency to come back and bite you on the A$$ VolkerBause. ;) OH I should also add the bit about Blonds may be highly offensive to some people and that comment alone may be enough to get you into serious trouble at some point if you continue to expound sediments like that. But I suppose you will need to learn this yourself. :^0 Col OH this is me being nice. :^0 :D :^0 :D

cmiller5400
cmiller5400

My comment was a bit out of line. Please accept my apologies.

santeewelding
santeewelding

Establishing your creds. I appreciated them from years ago here. I also appreciate the nuggets you produce now. Not so much the chaff, though. Makes you out as disliking everyone -- in particular, the likes of me. Couple of others, too.

Jellimonsta
Jellimonsta

Or in this case, subject. Before you go touting a blogger as 'not knowing what they were doing', know what you, and who you, are talking about.

NexS
NexS

Looks like you never finished high school. Good job.

Jaqui
Jaqui

had to do complete system reconstruction first just today got it running right. now I can start getting the needed data back from backups.

Sonja Thompson
Sonja Thompson

Oldmanmike, I appreciate your feedback. I did think that the title of this post would capture more peoples' attention and was more descriptive than the proposed title, "openSUSE, not what it is touted to be" - and a little more tactful than the title of the document submission "openSUSE sucks."

seanferd
seanferd

There were backups. OpenSuSE did the damage.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

It may not have been "because of OpenSUSE" but it was most definitely with OpenSUSE.

ymnipxtczkai
ymnipxtczkai

1. Yast has NEVER by default proposed an LVM based setup, unless it was already in place. Fedora will propose this as a default. Moreover, the default Yast setup is quite clear which partitions will be formatted and the default click is to abort without a positive confirmation. 2. openSUSE has done the right thing in NOT shipping drivers wireless or otherwise, where it is not legal. 3. That other distributions choose to ship proprietary drivers is a very grey area legally. So for the data loss, it is _entirely_ the responsibilty of the end user.... Sorry, openSUSE cannot and should not be blamed in this situation.

Jaqui
Jaqui

a Ralink chipset, no drivers on the dvd [ oh, want the sources they have made a gpled project of? ralinktech.com has a link to their open source drivers project, and git required to pull them from the KERNEL TREE ] so opensuse screwed up if they include open source drivers by not including this one. and using PRE EXISTING partitions [ in a partition based config ] and not telling it to touch a drive it shouldn't have touched the other drive. one of my major issues with ubuntu was it's insistence on mounting every linux partition, even when they were explicitly marked not to be used. opensuse pulled that same boneheaded stunt.

Sonja Thompson
Sonja Thompson

People new to TechRepublic need to understand that our Terms of Service require folks to attack the issues, not people. If you haven't already seen Jason Hiner's post about cyber-bullying, please take a minute to check it out: http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=337169 I know that long-time members tend to stick up for one another, especially when they feel they are (or someone they know is) under attack. However, let's please try to keep the golden rule in mind - again, attack issues and not people. Thanks!

Jaqui
Jaqui

riight, he needs to get some coffee into him. nothing from Microsoft works well on Linux, and MS filesystems are useless.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Establishing creds, I was just rambling as if having a conversation, Jaqui knows my multiple facets, without a need for your interrogation and evaluation. Validating comments is imperative to public speaking, forgive me for including personal experiences to justify my opinions. I didn't want to come off as argumentative because I can't argue the point Jaqui made, I felt it was better to explain that, while certified, this is not a trade I have stayed current with however experienced no such problems in my company roll outs. Sorry you didn't like my more laid back and calm approach when talking to Jaqui. Keep your eyes posted on my activity though, I am sure you'll have an opportunity to critique my daytime posts. I will try harder to sate your content requirements in future. Edit: Sorry but I think I may have misread the rules and didn't realize I was supposed to like everyone. If I disagree, I'll say so. I will do the same with my best friends too, I don't have to agree with what someone says to like them, though it does help. In closing, I haven't said I like or dislike anyone, well those who I do dislike know exactly who they are. If they don't they simply can't read, I don't pull punches and don't believe in kid leather gloves. Why is it you feel you are tasked with monitoring my comments and how I choose to speak to others today? I say what I want, when I want. I do what I want, when I want. I offer no apologies for being brutally honest with people and most people who know me respect that; for it's few drawbacks, there are many benefits. End of.

Chi-7
Chi-7

I have read Jaqui's posts for several years now, he is most knowledgeable on many distros. We all know that often translation leads to ambiguity, "Ok- that's what it says but what the hell do they really mean?" SuSE has been my distro over 10 years, it has proven reliable time after time for my application. The fact that a talented professional got caught in a operators trap is a good thing to advise the community of, sorry Jaqui got hosed and thanks for the word of caution. I am astounded at the number of negative posts fired at a technician I have known to be a very bright and talented man.

NexS
NexS

Like more fun than a bucket of sand and a poking-stick. Good thing diligence is one of your strong points. I lost 2 years worth of work I'd done when re-installing an OS on my old laptop. Little did I remember, that work was on there. Luckily i did a system recovery CD the week before, and I was excited to get my work back until I was surprised by a DEAD laptop. I'm hoping I can fix it. Ha!

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

Jaqui must be slipping as I didn't think he was so [b]NICE[/b] to suggest something so non confrontational as the 3 options you provided above. :D I suppose age eventually catches up with most of them though. :^0 Col

NexS
NexS

Has a certain quality. Humour. It tickles my sides.

seanferd
seanferd

Tee hee. Yes, probably a very good editorial decision. :D

NexS
NexS

That I'm sure the blog said OpenSUSE wrote over the 500GB backup drive instead of the primary drive...

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

When I simply mashed the keyboard with both hands to enter an alias, it spelled Oz_Media, what a fluke! I suppose in order to garner respect or qualification from IT peers, you'd probably need to put a little more effort into joining the community. Jaqui's comments must have rang the SuSE defense alarms and the people came a runnin'. Keep defending the faith, my nondescript friend.

Jellimonsta
Jellimonsta

Interesting issue Jaqui. Also interesting that these two 'members' only joined TR to jump to the defense of OpenSUSE. ;\ ;)

albertop78
albertop78

a) A simple search in YaST Software Management, selecting the checkbox "Provides" if you use KDE shows that "ralink" used as keyword returns the following kernel-firmware - Linux kernel firmware files This package contains the firmware for in-kernel drivers that was previously included in the kernel. It is shared by all kernels >= 2.6.27-rc1. This package includes the Ralink firmware and the corresponding driver are part of the kernel. The package is clearly part of the standard media. Since I was curious I personally checked the list of files, compared to the one listed on http://www.ralinktech.com/support.php?s=2 The package shipping with openSUSE 11.3 is contains rt2561 rt2561s rt2661 rt2860 rt2870 rt3070 rt3071 rt3090 rt73 which cover basically all the cases listed on the ralink web page. b) Well, the article said the default was LVM, which is not correct. Now we are talking about a "Partition based" approach... Anyway, YaST asks to confirm three times. I tend to think that, if it formatted, there were red lines of text informing you in the summary of the installation :-) I select pre-existing partitions at all install, formatting only / to clean the system up. Never lost a bit, but of course it is my case. I can be very critical with openSUSE, since it is my distribution of choice, and I want it to work. But surely I cannot complain about loss of data or poor security...they always excel at that, and their team is extremely careful with this kind of problems. Next time, instead than writing an article with a very loud title, if you had a problem, maybe try to talk to them before spreading this kind of incorrect information. Regards

Zwort
Zwort

Indeed; the argumentum ad hominem is one of many bad techniques of argument, and does nothing to establish whether the facts in question are valid/true. Others include the argument from authority (because a 'well known expert' said it's true it is), the argument from popularity (excrement is good for you, several trillion flies cannot be wrong) and so on. Here are some lists of logical fallacies, quite a few of which are employed in Tech Rep: http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html http://www.friesian.com/valley/fallacie.htm http://members.tripod.com/AttitudeAdjustment/Books/Logic.htm http://extend.unb.ca/wss/fallacytxt.htm

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

Just wondering, you do live in the west end and all. :D Could be an honest question.

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

You have the growing old part right but that's about it. I still miss your old avatar with the big smashed up eye when you were in hospital, that really spoke volumes.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

You are just so sweet. :D Col

Jaqui
Jaqui

I never bothered to respond to the attacks myself. not worth it when they can't be bothered to even get my gender right.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

Which one is that Sonja? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Sorry that one doesn't work as I know people into S&M and they dearly want people to attack them with Whips and so on. :p Or is it the one that says He with the gold makes the rules. :^0 Yes I know [b]Me Bad[/b] but I couldn't resist. It's part of my [b]Growing Old Disgracefully Personality.[/b] :D Col

seanferd
seanferd

True, I rather expect failure more so than simply not relying on expected behavior. I even wince every time I attempt a large file copy between two folders on the same partition in Windows. And heaven forbid that dropping a shortcut onto a desktop full of shortcuts doesn't rearrange the whole thing - sorry, was I a pixel too close to that other shortcut or file?

pgit
pgit

...would experiment with a system containing the most valuable data you possess? You would have left that hard drive in there and installed a relatively unfamiliar system? No doubt suse puked on him, I can understand not imagining the backup, secondary drive would get touched at all, but some things are "zero tolerance" in my book, one of the biggies being "know thy data." (including where it is, and what you are doing with it) It takes a couple seconds to unplug the power and data cables. Again, I can understand complacency in such a situation, the "I've done this a million times..." comfort that lulls us into a mugging in a dark alley... but this is one thing I haven't failed to consider thus far, thank God. Don't get me wrong, I have sort of "lost customer data" through the back door. Just recently a client needed a reinstall, I asked numerous times if they had anything on the system they needed. Thgey insisted no, they didn't. I went ahead and when I returned the computer the client called within 1/2 hour and asked "where's my email?" I had asked, but I should have asked specifically how do you do email? Do you ave any pictures? Do you have an itunes collection? As a matter of fact, after the last such fiasco I have started suggesting the client buy a new hard drive to install the OS onto, and we remove the existing one while doing so. If they balk at the cost, so be it, but most have no problem with it, especially after I tell them we won't come close to touching any of their old data, email etc, it will all be preserved.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

You are expecting things to work as they should where as I always Expect to have a complete disaster whenever I touch anything. I am very rarely surprised to find out that I did something right as I didn't have to strip and rebuild the entire thing yet again. :D

Chi-7
Chi-7

The working mans lament Show me a man that never makes a mistake, and I'll show you a man that never does anything! I frequently suffer from "Cranial Rectal Insertion", It comes with the territory, we walk into a clients premises with our objectivity and pro demeanor in tact. When your flagship platform is being towed to port "holey $#!**" and there goes ones objectivity. Jaqui has already ripped himself several "new ones" like any conscientious craftsman would, It just kinda lights me right up to see some "experts" from the peanut gallery climbing in line to get their licks in. Jaqui nor any other TR member deserves this type of treatment, especially considering Jaqui's contributions to the TR community.

seanferd
seanferd

I try not to rely on expected behavior, either. As much as one can avoid doing so, anyway.

64molson
64molson

screw-up to torpedo an otherwise brillant career. Luckily all Jaqui lost was time; this time. Next time may not be so fortunate. I use external HDD for backup & ALWAYS disconnect before ANY system updates/service packs. I don't trust things to behave as they're supposed to!

Jaqui
Jaqui

I think Suse sucks would have grabbed more attention. ;)

NexS
NexS

But considering that it is now...

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

OZ I was at that disgusting 4 letter word that most are too scared to use here [b]WORK[/b] You know what they say Computers never sleep. Just try taking the End Users Mail Server off them and see how many complaints you get. I try to do that type of stuff while there is no one there to complain. ;) Col

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I thought you were going to spin teh Holy Grail. -"Bring out your dead!{clang} Bring out your dead!" -"'ere's one" -"Ninepence" -{I'm not dead, I'm not dead" -"'ang on, he says he's not dead" -"Well he's very ill" -"I can't take 'im like that, it's against regulation." -{I'm not dead,I'm not dead!} -"well can't you 'ang around a bit, he won't be long now" -"Nah, I got to go 'round Robinsons, they've lost 9 today" -{I think I'll go for a walk, I feel happy I feel happy} -"You're not fooling anyone you know" [i] (sorry, you can edit that out, can't you?)[/i]

NexS
NexS

I suppose they have adopted the title 'Cpt. Obvious'. I suppose they'll next tell us that A Strawberry isn't an Aeroplane.

NexS
NexS

I should write a '10 reasons Apple sucks-ass'. I'm sure I could stir up the pot.

NexS
NexS

Your white wigs!

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I figured I had to start posting comments sometime. You know me, quietly sitting at the back of the class and waiting for 3 o'clock. ;)

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

People in Australia SHOULD be asleep right now. What's with you catching the morning worms, Col? :D

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

I second that motion. Motion carried, 'not interesting'. :D

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

Brought to you by the Department For Redundancy Department. (, The number 5 and the letter Y)

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

[i]I simply reported facts which can be verified,[/i] Or is that what should happen? Quite often they are not one and the same thing no matter how much you wish that they where. What should happen and what actually happens are quite often radically different processes. That my friend is a Fact of Life with anything relating to computers. :^0 Col

Jaqui
Jaqui

quite a few non vocal members suddenly got a voice to defend opensuse. ;)

NexS
NexS

It is quite interesting. And your value of 'interesting' is very.. Well, uninteresting.

albertop78
albertop78

What is really interesting is that incorrect statements on a distribution are not correct ;-) The fact someone, me included, joined to comment on this is irrelevant, since I did not say anything wrong or biased. I simply reported facts which can be verified, while what has been written in the original article cannot. :-)

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

And I sit back down with a face redder than a slapped arse. I just saw 2 n00bs, one with an agenda (and probably a paycheck to post on forums in their defense, or is a really crappy sales rep). I don't care, Zakk and the gang of Black Label are at the Forum so I've been hanging out in the wings and pretending to throw out PR all day while killing time until they take the stage tonight. Think I'll squeeze in some time for beers at Jerome's at the track too, nice that the sun came out (in my case, I understand it must pain you though). :)

Jaqui
Jaqui

but this one is at least trying to communicate, not just ranting. that buys him respectful responses. :D

Oz_Media
Oz_Media

You put more effort into your reply than the poster did registering to defend SuSE. We've seen sheep from that flock around TR many times in the past, you are a real gentleman to offer his comments any credence.

Jaqui
Jaqui

have the rt2870 roms, said a package needed to be downloaded and installed on the install I had done. then complained it couldn't find the repo since the file wasn't on the install dvd. that says to me, it wasn't included. and there was only 3 partitions being formatted, / /usr and swap all on sda, sdb wasn't to be touched [ I have always had / and /usr as seperate partitions, usually also /boot, /opt and /var though I stopped using /opt since there is no 3rd party software that uses it, and it's only a duplication of /usr/local

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