Linux

10 things I hate about Linux...continued


Before reading the 10 things I Hate about Linux, check out the 10 things I Love about Linux.

  1. Too many versions. People complain about Windows Vista with 8 versions but I can't even count on one hand how many different distributions of Linux are available today.
  2. I do not want to use the command prompt.
  3. User interface doesn't compare to Windows.
  4. I want to be able to use my computer, not spend days trying to figure out how to use it.
  5. OpenOffice does not hold a candle to Microsoft Office. I would like to see a robust Microsoft Office for the Linux platform.
  6. Linux is not as user friendly as Windows.
  7. It is not ready for the average user.
  8. Lack of hardware support.
  9. Everything you can do with Windows and a Mac, you cannot do with Linux. Examples included multimedia and drivers (especially wireless).
  10. Lack of hardware manufacturer support.
  11. Installations can be tricky. They are not out of the box load and go. There is always some sort of configuration involved.
  12. Games are plentiful and cooler on Windows.
  13. Linux's snobbish and self-satisfied, join my club and become clever like us, attitude.

What would you like to add to this list? Add it in the comments section and I will edit the blog and add your entry. Let's really see what people dislike out there.

71 comments
brian.shaffer
brian.shaffer

14. Software installation is not unified -- .tar, .deb, .rpm, etc. 15. To many dependencies to overcome when installing software. 16. Difficult to add hardware, even when there is hardware support.

jmgarvin
jmgarvin

Was this a copy and paste from 1998? 1. Too many versions. People complain about Windows Vista with 8 versions but I can???t even count on one hand how many different distributions of Linux are available today. I've never understood this standpoint. They all use the same kernel and typically the same kernel modules are available for every distro. So what if there are more than 8 distros, they basically just come with different packages and each (of the non-major) distro is TAILORED to specific tasks. 2. I do not want to use the command prompt. You don't have to. Why do people keep saying this? Ubuntu has proven that the command prompt is only there for those of us who want to use it. 3. User interface doesn???t compare to Windows. What? Please explain. 4. I want to be able to use my computer, not spend days trying to figure out how to use it. Oh please. I keep hearing this red herring. What wasn't configured on install? 5. OpenOffice does not hold a candle to Microsoft Office. I would like to see a robust Microsoft Office for the Linux platform. What? Write is FAR superior to Word. The only thing better in MS Office is Excel and even Excel is losing ground. 6. Linux is not as user friendly as Windows. What does this even mean? Ubuntu has proven time and time again this is false. 7. It is not ready for the average user. See 6. 8. Lack of hardware support. WHAT!!?? Linux supports more hardware out of the box than Windows. 9. Everything you can do with Windows and a Mac, you cannot do with Linux. Examples included multimedia and drivers (especially wireless). Wireless is pretty well supported now. What other multi media drivers don't work? What can you can you NOT do in Linux that you can do in Windows/Mac? 10. Lack of hardware manufacturer support. They're coming on board now. 11. Installations can be tricky. They are not out of the box load and go. There is always some sort of configuration involved. Uh, did you ever install Windows? Linux is always a smoother install and will detect most hardware OUT OF THE BOX...unlike Windows and the poor SATA support of XP or the awful out of the box wireless support Windows provides. 12. Games are plentiful and cooler on Windows. WHAT!!?? What kind of garbage is this? I have one word for you, Cedega. 13. Linux???s snobbish and self-satisfied, join my club and become clever like us, attitude. Oh please...

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

Actually it's from August 2006. I don't know what resurrected it after it lay without comment for 11 months, but something seems to have dredged it back up into the collective consciousness. It's probably been a couple of months since this maggot of a topic moulted and began looking for new bandwidth to devour, so I guess it was due up again.

DanLM
DanLM

Couldn't agree more, just because I hate these types of topics. Not because I prefer any specific OS, just because it brings out the worst in people. This type of topic is as bad as politics. Dan

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

A few comments without startying an us vs them debate of opinions: 1. Linux is not a single OS, each distribution based on the Linux (or any other kernel) is a separate OS/Application collection that happens to be based on the same commodity parts. If you want to compare one OS to one OS it would be like the 8 versions of Vista compaired to Red Hat???s 3 versions of Linux; RHEL, RH Workstation (do they have a workstation specific version?) and Fedora (the free community version). Quit with the ???waa.. linux has too many choices??? line because it???s only part of a long list of different offerings and we all seem to do just fine picking a car and there???s far more choice to fear there. 2. The command prompt realy is the more efficient way to use any OS but one can happily go years without touching a command prompt in many of the different Linux based OS. Mind you, if you pick something like Debian or Gentoo you forfeit the right to complain about having to use a command prompt. 3. Which user interface? Gnome, KDE, Enlightenment, FVM. Three of those for can emulate Windows graphic look if you really need it. Three of those also offer a very straightforward user interface that takes less then ten minutes of working with to get used too. This one smells of ???waaa, it doesn???t work exactly what I???ve been conditioned to only understand because I learned a brand name in school instead of the general use of a tool.??? 4. *nix based OS; once they are setup, they just run. Heck, if you do find a program missing it???s waiting in the repository and can be installed in under five minutes. Even most server class software installs in under five minutes though like any server software, you???ll need to know something about it to set it up for best performance. 5. Office for *nix would be interesting to see but I have to ask, what is it your doing in Office that can???t be done in OpenOffice? You must be like me and in the 10% of people that use the advanced Office functions that keep our data locked into Microsoft???s product upgrade cycle. 6. Windows is not as user friendly as *nix based OS. We???re just conditioned to believe that it is through market saturation and marketing lies. Of course Windows seems easy, we???ve all been forced to use it since grade school. 7. Linux based OS can easily support 90% of the user base needs. Again, it???s the 10% of users with some special need that have less choice. Since the 90% is primarily made up of average users, any OS they get on a baught machine will be installed by the retailer so ???it???s sooo hard to install??? has no value here. 8. Lack of hardware support is an issue with the hardware vendors. Why not ask your hardware vendor???s why they???ve chosen to ignore a potential hardware market by not releaseing driver blobs or (better yet) driver specs. 9. This is a repeast of your number 8 (no hardware support) claim. I???d argue that I can do far more with *nix more open OS design then I could ever do with a Windows based OS. Sure, it???s got initial hardware driver support (er.. how is Vista???s driver support these days?) but giving a couple of driver categories does not provide valid examples of what functions can only be done on a Windows or osX platform. 10. This is your second repeat of your point 8. Lack of hardware support, lack of ???doing stuff??? with hardware and lack of support from hardware vendors are all examples of the same thing so your list is realy only 10 personal and ill informed complaints. 11. Windows installs always needs some configuration. osX installs always need some configuration. Linux based OS installs always need some configuration. BSD based OS installs always need some configuration. And your point is? Dell isn???t providing ???out of the box load and go??? with preinstalled hardware? Have you tried looking at a few LiveCD maybe even some of the Ubuntu line. Heck, I threw Mandriva Live at a machine; installed simply and quickly with no configuration after the fact. 12. Games are a long standing easy target. This is an issue with the game developers not any particular OS but hey, if blaiming a particular OS for the decisions of a software vendor makes you feel better then by all means. 13. Agreed here in part. The Linux Zealots have damaged the perception of Linux based OS with there snobbish ramblings. In the same way MS Fanboys make Windows very unattractive and Cult of Mac is always around to tarnish the perceptions of osX. But hey, if damning a single software platform because you???ve felt insulted by the outspoken snobbish fan minority works for you then that???s your choice. Now, not to be mistaken; I could care less what OS you find works best for you and if it???s something different from what I use 90% of the time then that???s fine. My issue is your list of complaints mostly based on myths or use of propaganda to redirect blame too a particular software platform rather then placing it with the appropriate Manufacturer. This also should not be mistaken for a response from yet another snob Linux user since I'd bend over backwards to help you find information to solve a problem; even if it wasn't a *nix install you where working on.

DanLM
DanLM

could it be more cpu cycles are dedicated to the game itself and not to a gui to support the os? Waisted cycles mean lagged games. Have to love this argument. Just adding in to what your saying Neon, sorry. Dan

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

at the back of the book. Yes.. that's it exactly.. more game servers run on *nix to support multiplayer network gaming because *nix manages system resources and networking much more efficiently. What kills me is that game developers trip over themselves to write a game server (basic game network information router) deamon for *nix then release the game for DX9/10 only. Sure, the OS is good enough to run the multiplayer hub but not good enough for the precious product line .. boooo.. more game houses need to take the example of NeverWinter Nights and release a *nix native version. I would also point out another comparison.. why is it that the same VM (pst, satan.. that's short for virtual machine) runs slower under a Windows host OS than it does under a *nix host OS.. Wait.. let's check the answer page at the back of the book again; there it is, *nix OS development model is still far more efficient than Redmon's overpriced offering. hehehe.. all in all, I guess a Troll like Satan was only a matter of time. Forums around here have hosted more rational debate as of recent but someone finally joined to fill the void with idiot claimes of granduer.

Tig2
Tig2

More and more people are taking the time and energy to really investigate what they can do with Linux and BSD. There is beginning to be a shift away- especially as technical folks are thinking in terms of meeting end user needs. I do think that the sentiment was valid once upon a time, however. But what I am seeing now is a more patient and supportive cast of end users that find the OS satisfying and are willing to share. Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

DanLM
DanLM

I really don't have anything against MicroSoft. I use it, I will always use it. I do like it. All though this dual core, 2 gig memory machine is being a dog lately. Time for it's yearly reformat. I can't stand people like satan though. With regard to any OS. I use different OS's for specific purpose's what I think will work best. MS for the lazy(me) desktop user. And Unix(my preferences) for work horse duties. I would never use MS for a mission critical, time sensitive, resource heavy requirement. They are not stable(too many reboots), they use too much resources(memory, cpu cycles), and they require too much critical maintenance for everything from exploits to just fix's(which again requires constant reboots). Hmmm, maybe I will do a dual boot this format. PC-BSD and winblows. See if I can move completely off this bloat heavy, constant reboot, memory hog os. And satan, if you can read this. Windows stole the pretty vista interface from apple. They couldn't even do that on their own. Dan

Beilstwh
Beilstwh

Let me start out by saying I use Linux, Solaris, and Windows. >>And satan, if you can read this. Windows >>stole the pretty vista interface from apple. They couldn't even do that on their own. Absolutely true, but apple stole the GUI, mouse, and Ethernet from Xerox. In the computer industry, most good ideas are taken from other people. P.S. I think that Microsoft is the evil empire and I love Linux. 8-)

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

Apple baught the rights to Xerox GUI when the project was cancelled. Apple squeezed the Xerox OS (meant for a mini mainframe) into an underpowered desktop after hiring most of the Xerox development team. Microsoft saw a demo machine running the Apple port of the Xerox OS and directly duplicated it's design for Windows. Apple legally optained the rights from Xerox. MS blatantly stole the technology from Apple. The courts later ruled in MS favour acknoledging that it was blatant thieft but that it was the only way to have competition in the OS market at the time. Apple continues to design, MS continued to buy, steal or burry.

satan
satan

Everyone stole the GUI from Xerox, who cares. I could care less about Vista's GUI, turn that shit off and use the old display driver model actually because GDI applications are dominate still and that new driver model software renders them. The new driver model is direct x centric. While its true I do like Windows I would be open to other OS if they were worth it. I do not work at Microsoft or anything but I do think they get a bad rap and a lot of B$ talk about them and I get tired of hearing B$ about other OS when they have problems too and more so, that seem to fall on deaf ears. I think linux is one of those things that is definately over rated and over inflated beyond what it really is and get tired of hearing B$ about it.

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

the way to defend it is not attacking Linux (or any other operating system). You wind up looking like the people you dislike when they attack Windows. In this case, the best defense is NOT a good offense. Have you tried a Linux distribution? Many are available free as "Live CDs" that boot from CD without affecting your Windows hard drive. Your comments on Linux will be taken more seriously if you include your personal experiences with it.

DanLM
DanLM

satan reminds me of the idiot Linux snobs. Just as arrogant, just as stupid in their one sided opinions. They remind me of people that either vote only democrat or only vote republican. Don't care that a candidate(OS) which might not be of their party(MS/Linux) that has better positions and track records in specific area's. All that counts is that their party(MS/Linux) wins. Dan

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

between windows and nix (and others). You don't need a GUI to run it. Just integrating the GUI into the OS caused windows just about every architectural problem it has. (It's why the security, robustnesss and performance are less than a tradition mainframe based OS) Yes it made it more approachable and gave it the desktop market, but on a server, GUI is an unnecessary overhead. Most of people's reluctance at using the command line is simply down to their lack of experience, when I started GUI's were applications not OS's, they still are in my considered opinion.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

the article was dated a year ago. Many things have changed over the last couple of years. But as well, many still have not. I still run into snobby linux geeks

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

MS Fanboys FS Zealots Cult of Mac I guess a technology really hasn't "arrived" until there's a brand blinded camp full of loyal extremists. The snobbery sucks from any single camp but today it seems we're getting a diaper full from the MS Fanboys.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

the different groups seem to be quiter for a while, and then all of a sudden they cannot shut up, or let something go.

DanLM
DanLM

It's not new. They have been here as long as Microsoft. Just like the snobs of Linux, they have been here since the beginning. Dan

DanLM
DanLM

It's not new. They have been here as long as Microsoft. Just like the snobs of Linux, they have been here sence the beginning. Dan

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

a few years ago i was a lot of Mac fanboys, then Linux fanboys, now its more MS fanboys. Next it will probably start a repeat

Tig2
Tig2

But the number is diminishing and average users are being given better direction. This is good. Truthfully, I think that the number of "Windows Only and Forever" snobs are on the increase. May just be my perception.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

most of the Win forever snobs are techies. Most users will use whatever they need to and are familiar with. Extreme users will get to know the OS platform of choice better. Techies are the ones who choose the OS and try to justify to everyone why. But usually, MS techies (extreme MS techies) are snobs because they know they are too lazy to learn anything other than MS products.

satan
satan

I agree with everything you said and there are even more reasons other than usability to not use the 'sux (linsux) as I would call it. The first is that technology is not first put into Linsux, its way behind. One reason could be because when technology (hardware) companies disclose new features, they would not be able to disclose them publicly and as such would be hard pressed to release information that competitors could use! So the "open sores" community would need to take an NDA (are they against this?) Even if they did take the NDA they couldn't work on the code, at least not publicly, until the thing is released. Windows advantage? They do not disclose everything that MAY be in Windows and can enable features when they become released as the code may already be out there. Windows isn't named after anyone! Why the hell would I use an Operating System that some egotistical idiot named after himself? I wouldn't! Linsux used to have a program called "Billdows" that was a game that made fun of Windows. The joke is on Linux tho because Windows isn't named after Bill. Windows has a team of developers working on crap and its a collaboration. Linsux basically has a core team of 100 people that really do the contributions however its all under one dictator, Linus Toreballs. He has the end say about everything, the dictator, so all the sheep are "blind" because they think its open sores and free. Its not you got to pay the piper. You got to give everything you got to Linus then he decides what happens. This goes back to hardware support but Windows not only has vendor support but they have testers. In Linsux, the community has to test things and how fun is testing? Its not fun so you don't get people testing every printer out there for example or regression testing if something is added everything is retested again for regressions. Microsoft's employees do the testing because they are paid not because they are passionate about printers which is what has to happen in the open sores world for all forms of printers or whatever to be tested. YOu're right, the linux attitude is opposite of how people perseve windows. First, a lot of "blue screen jokes" I see out there are showing a WINDOWS 95 blue screen, a blue screen over 10 years ago. No one really shows NT blue screen, why? they aren't seen as much its a compltely different beast but the legacy lives on in stupid peoples minds. Most windows blue screens are 3rd party driver issues. If Linux core dumps or freezes and locks up like it usally does its considered user error. User error? How can the system crashing and locking up be user error? again its the l33tism view of the retards that work on it. If Windows blue screens its a windows problem (or usually 3rd party driver issue) and windows is willing to work with vendors even and determine the cause. Linsux community is basically "screw you, don't do that then, user error". Yes, user error for wanting to use the KDE desktop for more than 1 minute without it locking up. Torvals does not believe in debugging it "takes away from design". So I guess if linux crashes its a feature! He designed it to fail and is unwilling to fix it. Its definately seeable since the debugging support of Linux is as good as a 10 year old donut. He is probably a "printf" debugger. Linux is a good way to turn a nice laptop into an expensive paperweight. Poor hardware support and funny as much as they hate Windows and think it sucks, they copy the driver model and not only that STEAL drivers (ala project evil); they made crap that would allow linsux to load and run windows drivers (particularly wireless). How's that for a god awful hacked up system? You can't even run drivers for your own operating system. People have stupid arguements against windows, yet most people who use the 'sux also run Windows. Not all, but a lot why? because they can't do anything otherwise! They say "linux is used in 1 billion servers da da da" well, the reason is simple, its because of mindset not reality. The mindset of people setting up servers are Unix heads and they still haven't trusted windows. More and more people are putting windows in those situations and perhaps with Windows Server 2008 Core that should continue. They are also using them as "embedded systems" basically which means removing all but the core of the OS and running 1 application that does 1 specific service. They arent' creating it into desktops. They are running a particular service and thats it. its basically an embedded system, an appliance, thats how its being treated and basically you could create something fairly simplisitic to run a particular application, the only hardware most that stuff needs is just a LAN card. So build a boot, build a network stack and run the application. Linux then just provides a few more basic OS components that can be utiilized but its far from stressing the OS into general purpose application use environments. Probably another reason you have many distributions, people tweak it for one particular application or set of applications and turn it into an appliance.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

A game where little Bill's walk onto the screen and force Windows into the pre-existing multi-OS computer networks. The rest of your comment is as mistaken as the bit about XBill though. Not because you choose to run something else but because you choose to slam Linux simply because you don't like or understand it. That's the behaviour of a brand blinded MS Fanboy and further debate with any of the three extremests is of little use. Maybe you want to come back and debate the differences between OS when you know something factual about more than just your prefered pet OS. You'll find it far easier to make technical comparisons when you know the histories and technical details of what's being compaired.

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

First, welcome to TR. This is a community of IT professionals. No one is taken seriously when they use derogatory nicknames. This includes terms like 'linsux', 'Windoze', 'MicroSux', 'open sores', 'Toreballs', etc. Using these terms gives the impression someone is not interested in starting a discussion, just a fight. If you're going to include statistics or quote others, include a link to the original source of your numbers. For example, what evidence do you have that there are 100 core Linux programmers? What links do you have to interviews with Torvalds where he says he doesn't believe in debugging? You are right that many blue screens are third-party driver issues. But remember, those drivers are written by the same hardware manufacturer you suggest Linux sign NDA's with. Why would their Linux drivers be any better? Yes, many people do tweak Linux for single applications or appliances. One reason is because you can't do that with Windows. It isn't practical to install a 10Gb hard drive with unneeded Windows utilities in everything that needs an operating system. It's much easier to put a basic Linux system on a chip along with the application. Edited to correct the first time I can recall using the name "Linus" when I meant to type "Linux".

DanLM
DanLM

And that Linux doesn't have the corner on them. And dick head, my bsd os does not crash. [i]The time is 6:54PM and the server seti has been online 194 day(s), 3 hour(s), an d 15 minute(s). [/i] Show me a windows system dick head that has been online that long with out any problems? It's FreeBSD, open source, everything you can't stand. Wait, my heart bleads for you. There are more FreeBSD servers supporting the web community then windows. Ahhh geee, that must hurt the ego Windows moron's little itty bitty fealings. I use windows too dick head, and will never move away. But thats because I'm lazy. And if you had a brain, which I doubt you had. You might be able to comprehend command line. And the fact you can do MUCH MORE with command line ANY DAY then any GUI that windows ever put out. At least I KNOW what is wrong when a command line doesn't work. It's better then seeing some memory address thatwindows displays when it crashs. Lets do a speed test you twit. Command line windows against your precious GUI. Command line will beat it every time. FTP, copies, anything. Command line is MUCH faster every time. Dan

jhuybers
jhuybers

I work with multiple windows servers that are currently sitting at 203 days 14 hours + which would be about when they were booted at the new data centre. Get a grip Dan.

hillman.d
hillman.d

I'd like to know what you're doing to have your Windows servers up that long. We put a bunch of new web and database machines running Windows server 2003 into commission less than a year ago and most of them had to be rebooted multiple times for patches and a misbehaving remote backup service . On the contrary, we just replaced a FreeBSD mail server that had been up since 2003.

jhuybers
jhuybers

I would definately get my jollies from a screen cap of your box. But really I don't care. That is the server, as I thought was made clear in the post, not my desktop that has updates to put in. However that wasn't the request, just a working, in use, windows based server with high up-time. Previously I wasn't trying to be nasty but overly facetious which clearly came off wrong.

MyLittleMansAnIdiot
MyLittleMansAnIdiot

I bet you could find a lot more 'nix based systems with 100+ up days than you could find 'dows based ones. Could be the "prejudice" shown by a lot of server admins shgown towards 'nix based servers. Still in everyones experience, which can you say is truly the more stable OS? Edit: I don't want to downplay things, that's a seriously impresive feat.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

updates again, as I already brought it up (along with others). But I guess that would ruin the 'uptime' record of an MS server in use...

DanLM
DanLM

Will that make you happy? Christ, I even complimented you lower down. Thats what I get for being nice. Screw it, won't happen again. While your at it, update your desktop. See the little yellow icon? Your Microsoft desktop needs its [i][b]recommended[/b][/i] updates. The icon is in the lower edge of your screen print if you didn't notice. If you do the update, please let us know if you have to reboot now won't you? Dan

rapture
rapture

I know of someone who has an old Netware server (4.10?) that hasn't been rebooted in 8 years. He's afraid when he has to it won't come back up due to hardware failure. My personal best, also a netware 4.x server, is over 3 years. Love Linux, really like some things about Windows, hate M$ business practices. But 9 mos on a Windows box is (unfortunately) fairly impressive.

DanLM
DanLM

You did win. Proved me wrong. What can I say, not the first I've been wrong. Not the last time I'll be wrong. ;o) Dan

DanLM
DanLM

It was his desktop that needed updates, he had remoted in. I seen the yellow icon in the right corner and started laffing. Sorry. Dan

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

I would have thought that an SQl server would have needed rebooting by then, just for general errors. Good job with it

jhuybers
jhuybers

I gave it to you. You can try and put conditions on it now but it's a bit late. I guess yous is true because it's in italics right?

jmgarvin
jmgarvin

If you don't patch and you avoid doing any real serving on the them.

DanLM
DanLM

Not from when it was last rebooted. Made the mistake of putting in the wrong version of MySql, and uninstaller/reinstalled it without a reboot. Also have installed other network daemon software sense that date. With no reboot. What have you installed on your windows servers? Anything? Did you apply any patch's? Or isn't that part of your maintenance schedule. Do you have a maintenance schedule? Who needs to get a grip here. Dan

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

hmmm. Patch days gets missed quite often dont they? Or was that a typo and you meant 23 days?

Tony Hopkinson
Tony Hopkinson

Guess you are careful about which patches you rollout on these ! Come on give us hint, you know this is not normal. My Personal best was a MicroVax 3100 under VMS, over four years ! Finally fell prey to to some flakey hardware.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

your second paragraph says it all. Well almost. The dumba$$ mentions NT as not doing BSOD's. He must have a stock install without service packs, and needing weekly reboots

satan
satan

No one said anything about GUI vs Command line, never once made the list. However, command line is much simpler for an idiot to program they can just do a bunch of string compares vs. having to program a working GUI (which doesn't work in the 'sux very good) so as far as complexity of the OS, they fail it! And you failed to read what I said, the people putting the servers out there are biggots like you, so of course its all the 'sux and doesn't prove anything. And again, they are running one task, an embedded appliance, so ya, you could write a piece of code and just blast it as your own OS don't even need linux to do that, it is just a shell at that point.

MyLittleMansAnIdiot
MyLittleMansAnIdiot

"1. Idiot who created some 3rd party application just says "reboot" after installation even though you don't need to! This is something Microsoft is trying to cut down on with their "Designed for Windows" stuff. If you don't need to reboot, Don't force your installation package to do it!" I have to reboot my Windows box with every Windows update....every month....first tuesday....goes a long way to support that argument...oh wait.... Plus Microsoft's development team does nothing to ensure 3rd party software or hardware vendors products work on Windows, that's the vendors responsibility, just like it is in the open source community. The big difference is the open source community has the ability to support thier software and hardware themselves if they want to. Let's see you that with Windows.

DanLM
DanLM

It has alot of stuff running. That ISNT NEEDED. You need the crutch for the useless bloat, I don't. You want the hassle of plugging the holes for your lot of stuff running, go for it. It doesn't belong on mission critical servers. As far as boots, I do update my system. I don't have to reboot. If I have to rip the box apart to upgrade hardware, of course it will be rebooted. Your a moron, you haven't answered nothing. Nothing at all except the fact you expanded on my argument that Microsoft is bloat and the bloat requires numerous patch's because nobody knows what it does. And those patch's(Microsoft's, not third party software) require reboots. Shut up satan, your showing how much of an idiot you really are. Dan

TechExec2
TechExec2

. TR is a forum for IT professionals, not for immature little trolls like you. Disagreement is welcome! If you want, getting hot about it is completely fine! I "enjoy" a good street fight just as much as the next guy, but this is not the place for it. Since you've been here only 2 friggin' days, I thought I would let you know. You are over the line here. Get your act together or expect to have a short stay.

satan
satan

Dude, you never asked I am not dodging anything, everything you're fired I've put out with water. Look, a lot of shops run Windows just fine, a guy on this forum even has Windows up and running. Windows needs to reboot for many reasons. 1. Idiot who created some 3rd party application just says "reboot" after installation even though you don't need to! This is something Microsoft is trying to cut down on with their "Designed for Windows" stuff. If you don't need to reboot, Don't force your installation package to do it! 2. You want to change or upgrade your hardware. Yes, its funny when I do hear people say "my uptime is 10 years" well, crap, I could run DOS at the dos prompt for years too. It also means your OS is now outdated along with your hardware. 3. Buggy third party drivers and applications. Yes, there are buggy applications, drivers, you name it. There is no perfectly written software because its written by people and in that sense there are always going to be bugs. Now windows has two faults here, 1. is that the server currently does not have a "minimal" install which means you've got a lot of services and things and hardware drivers running you may not need. This is what I have talked about in this thread many times, Linsux allows you to basically remove everything and basically have a boot loader and the application and that's it. Its almost "not linux" at that point but just the application. Microsoft is trying to take care of this with "Core" server. 4. Updates. Yes, again all software is buggy even open sores. If you aren't updating your software with the latest patches, thing is people actually test and try to attack windows more often, then you have to update. Again this also is an issue because of what I said in #3, that windows has a lot of stuff running on the server that aren't going to be used but still need updated. Its unlikely people are giving a user a workstation, and their work station is now a file server, SQL Database, internet firewall, novell print server, and web server all in one. However, its capable of doing all this so components need updated. You can with windows go through just like in linux and at least strip down and turn off services and things that are on by default to create your system smaller at that level and find drivers you don't need (for example, don't install NVIDIA driver keep basic VGA Save driver) and attempt to slim down your system for just the service you are running. This doesn't mean windows isn't good for being a server because it is being used afterall and the support is better and windows sets more things up for you that you don't have to do yourself. Linux removed most of its code by not implementing it and basically making the user implement it. Windows is still getting better all the time and new features are always comming out and the code is being developed, unlike other platforms that are doing basic development all the time. Message was edited by: beth.blakely@...

DanLM
DanLM

So your right, if you are not going to show the decency to read all my posts before making an opinion. Go fix your unix install that you quite obviously screwed up in the first place. Christ, I don't even know newbies that have screwed up an install as bad as what you described. You quite obviously don't like the fact that there is other os's out there, and we are defending them against biased opinions like satans. You think his wasn't a troll feed. Your a moron. In your words, your a douche bag. You are the troll. What piss's me off about people like you and satan. Even though I readily admit to using multiple os's. Thats not good enough for you. Even though I readily admit to [b]liking[/b] multiple os's, [u][b]including Microsoft[/b][/u]. That again is not good enough for you. Who is the troll you douche bag, me or you? Shut up, go home and play with your gui. At least I'm smart enough to know that Microsoft isn't the only game on the block. [b]And Microsoft isn't the all perfect OS[/b] that you and satan think it is. Dan

stilmas
stilmas

This guys really is a douche bag. I should have taken the advice as to not feed the trolls. Very useful advice. Anyway, this topic is as dead as it was several years ago, don't even know why I chimed in....SHEESH!

DanLM
DanLM

Please stay away from any system that is mission critical to either myself or the company I work for. You quite obviously are doing something wrong, and I want no part of what ever it is. Dan

DanLM
DanLM

I use more then one OS, and I use proprietary software. If you took the time to read everything, you would have known that before you opened your big mouth. I state specifically that I use different OS's for what I think they do best. Again, read all posts before you comment. I have no time or patience for satan who can't see past the end of his nose which is made by Microsoft. I responded to his single mindedness, and not to all people that use MS. Again, you spoke before you read all the thread. Dan

stilmas
stilmas

It is obvious that this guy is an egotistical Open Source user like most are. I work in a shop that has Windows, Linux and Unix servers. We have more Windows servers than anything else. All platforms do certain things better than others, it's a tool that's it, use the best tool for the job. Just because you can wirte code in a text editor proves nothing, you could still be writing sloppy code and you won't have anything to tell you you may be making a mistake without compiling it and running it to debug it. WYSIWYG editors are a productivity tool, you can write code faster. I know several coders that can easily use a text editor to code stuff, but they don't, they use development application suites to boost productivity, because that IS THE BOTTOM LINE! All your talk about MS needing to patch their stuff because they don't know what they're doing is completely hilarious! It takes longer for any open source patch to come out, sometimes over a year! Why is that????? MS is the target of choice for finding exploits due to the overwhelming market share. Any platform will have these issues if over 90% of the world was using it. You act like you never had a kernel panic on any of your open source systems. I guarantee you had them and don't know why or what caused it, but you had to reinstall the OS didn't you?! No repairing, redo everything! I'm not bashing anything but the poster here, I use different platforms depending on the task at hand, they all have their place and they all have their own sucky issues. One is not clearly better than the other for every task imaginable.

Neon Samurai
Neon Samurai

After reading two postings I'm convinced that this is nothign more than a Troll bolstering it's highschool level need for Ego support. - The joining date is yesterday, just in time to make a big stink - The name choses seems purposfully insitefull - The way in which comments are written and name calling is used is obviously meant to generate strong emotional responses Yup.. it's just another Troll. Take all the pictures you like but please don't get too close to the cage or feed the Trolls.

DanLM
DanLM

You still haven't answered why an MS operating system needs rebooted so often. Bun then, that is just like Microsoft and all its hard core fans. You duck issues and gloss them over. Dan Message was edited by: beth.blakely@... Message was edited by: beth.blakely@...

satan
satan

You use a GUI to code the GUI? You use a text editor moron. You also MISS the point completely. I was not talking about idiots coding in VB or some shit and truthfully I wasn't even talking about people coding applications, I was talking about the core of the operating system and developers at Microsoft. They did all that wonderful work so you could take an entire week (f*ck are u dumb, an entire week to code a GUI using a GUI? f*ck man, real men code GUIs in assembly language in a text editor in a day). Anyhow, Linux is simpler because the OS developers don't do all that nice work, they just have to implement string compare. So, now that I've schooled you hopefully your brain can now understand what I was talking about. Yes, everyone knows what a hex editor is dude, calm down you're not special because you heard of one before. And even still, even with all that work Windows has done it is still a bit of work to do compared to just writing a console application (unless of course you're talking about morons who are obviously your equal, because yes people code GUIs in text editors). Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Message was edited by: beth.blakely@...

DanLM
DanLM

1). Which system boots up faster. Winblows or any Linux version. 2). Which system, you pick it you moron. Has more 0 day exploits. Your winblows, or my freebsd system. 3). Lets see what microblows couldn't think of, but had to use from open source. a). Well damn, tcp/ip b). Current security scheme in vista. It's what linux and unix have been using for years. You fkn moron, they have to go to who wrote the book to figure out how to do it. And it wasn't your fkn windows. c). ftp, why don't you do a hex edit(you do know how to do that don't you?) you fkn moron and see what the comments say. Bet it isn't microsblows. Ahhh, again. Microsoft had to bow to the open source because they just wasn't quick enough. Servers, which stays up and running the longest without reboots? Well damn, its linux/unix. Wonder why Oracle, who's database puts microblows to shame, chose to side with a Linux version and not microblows. They could make just as much in support with microsft as they are on Linux. Could it be its more stable? Easier for installs? Easier to maintain? DOESN'T WAIST CPU CYCLES ON A BULL SHIT GUI? Yea, ok... Go ahead, answer you twit. You wouldn't know how to code if you had the instructions in front of you. It took me all of a week to pick up and figure out how to code a gui. Why, why damn. Microsoft had to create gui tools for idiots like you. Drag and drop. If your good, then do it without a gui that does all the work for you. Otherwise, shut up. Because you aren't coding the gui. You are using a tool to create both the gui and the code that is behind it. Do it in text pad, then come to me and tell me how good you are. And you fkn dick weed. How many MS servers is in most shops. Your point about BSD on the web. Lets look at that. Why gee, you have your mail server just like unix. You have your db server, just like unix. People go with ms because they like to be shown how to do things, and are too lazy to learn the correct way. They pay for it by not having consistent up time on their mission critical applications. The server needs rebooted constantly. The amount of time applying service patch's, which take out servers, because they need rebooted affects the bottom line. Why is it that unix/linux does not need rebooted when you upgrade. And ms does? Because their is so much bloat that they have no idea what the code is. Simple as that. Shut up, go back to the hell you live in. Dan

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

I can rip apart your statements pretty easily, but for now I have decided not to. And I am a linux and BSD user, not svr operator. As for you, creating a name 'satan' is pathetic in itself. You sound like a teen that sits in a dark basement for hours on end with no friends except a few online dweebs like yourself who gather in the dumba$$ places online to try to think that you are cool in some way