Windows optimize

Hello Windows 7 and goodbye Windows XP?

In June 2009, Mark Kaelin suggested the end was coming for Windows XP and asked what you were going to do about it? He is still asking?

In June 2009, I suggested that it may be time for IT professionals and leaders to, at the very least, begin considering what to do after Windows XP is no longer a viable operating system choice for business. The results of the polls I used to gauge my hypothesis, found in the blog post titled "IT Professionals Will Not Drop Windows XP Quietly (if Ever)," revealed a strong reluctance to migrate away from XP for any other operating system at all.

But now that Microsoft Windows 7 has been released, I am wondering if that sentiment has been relaxed and if more of you are considering an operating system migration? So, here are a few more poll questions that we can use to assess where we stand as a community on this idea. Please, take a few moments to share your thoughts in the ensuing discussion thread, because we really want to know your thinking on this subject.

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About

Mark Kaelin is a CBS Interactive Senior Editor for TechRepublic. He is the host for the Microsoft Windows and Office blog, the Google in the Enterprise blog, the Five Apps blog and the Big Data Analytics blog.

136 comments
Sysadmin/Babysitter
Sysadmin/Babysitter

MS OS UPGRADES=SLOWER PC's Why do I want a slower computer?

dwdino
dwdino

??

leo8888
leo8888

Just purchased a new Asus PC with an option to downgrade to XP. I played around with the 7 a little while before dumping it and loading the XP. It is much faster with the XP. Boot times, opening programs and shutdown all improved greatly.

Gabby22
Gabby22

It's stupid to alienate the power users in an OS change, because these are the folks who'll advise management in what is always going to be a costly exercise in any case. And the PUs aren't happy with Vista/W7. You only need to do a bit of searching on the web to realise that. Simple Explorer changes such as screwing up the Search function and the configuration on opening an Explorer window are extremely annoying and *inefficient* for the PUs. Sure, there are other good things, but going backwards in these simple areas (used hundreds of times a day) doesn't make sense. These types of changes weren't *necessary*, and we know it. So when you have silly changes like this, why would you expect PU's to endorse the change. They'd have to get something *really* good in return, and generally that's not the case. Most of the 'standard' users won't even notice these things (or most of the other Vista/W7 fancies). But they'll be irritated too if it doesn't work like it did before.

dwdino
dwdino

I an many other PUs who are change advocates have transitioned our work patterns and found much greater work habits. Many peers, which are change averse, cannot adopt to the different methodology. I do agree that explorer is not as handy. But I now find myself hardly ever using it. Between individual usage lists per application and much more powerful search, I just don't have to manage it manually.f But all our PUs agree on the following: 1) Reboots are now optional (except for patching). 2) Laptops are much more portable with dock/undock, hibernation, etc. greatly improved. 3) Installing W7 is a hardware refresh. We could actually deploy retired hardware and make clients happy. But each will have to decide.

Gabby22
Gabby22

I'm not change averse (would I admit it?) - most power users aren't. And there are a hell of lot of PUs out there who are really pissed off. Many are sysadmins. But the point I was making was the stupidity of screwing up areas of XP which are used by power users and where the problems are immediately obvious. For no reason at all it seems to me (except some marketeer who worked out that PUs are a small minority). It reflects badly on what is in some regards a superior product. Not clever at all and it will certainly slow down the takeup of W7. Now some folks are delighted to get a new glossy OS for xmas and will love it regardless. As Inge said: There are two kinds of fools: one says "This is old, therefore it is good"; the other says, "This is new, therefore it is better". I say "If it aint broke, don't fix it."

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

it will NOT natively run applications designed to run on XP. It's the associated cost of replacing all this software that's causing a lot of people to hang back until they have no other choice in the matter. And this is a problem deliberately created by Microsoft as they made changes to the code to make it like that.

dwdino
dwdino

Period. It is the cost benefit analysis. There are benefits to 7 over XP, but they must fit an organizations needs. For daily operations, XP works for 90%.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

software to run on Win 7 means they'll stay with XP because there is NO benefit to the cost to update until they can't do the work because MS have finally crippled XP with an auto update.

JCitizen
JCitizen

you have a hardware device that was developed either after Vista or literally designed [b]specifically for Vista[/b], and it still doesn't work!! Even some of Microsoft's newest hardware, that they had made for their shop, works better on XP that Vista. A lesson I learned very expensively, when I bought the latest and greatest blue-tooth keyboard and mouse for media centers, and quickly realized it only really worked on XP! Ended up giving the almost $300 device to a friend. Plus I must have spent $40 for phone support on it, I got so exasperated at its poor performance! Of course that is also a lesson that you can't let any device go untested before the warranty expires; however my built in blue tooth drivers were so fouled up in my HP PC, so bad that I didn't have a chance to test it until it was too late. Vista! ARRGGHH!!!

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

core systems or set up business between 2000 and 2004. When Microsoft introduced Win XP, they kept the same Command Set that they used with Win 2000, so everything that worked with Win 2000 just loaded and worked on Win XP. BUT, Microsoft have changed the command set for Win Vista and Win 7, so they are not compatible with Win XP or Win 2000 applications. Your statement about the incompatibility is NOT a fact of life, but a fact of Microsoft greed. Microsoft do NOT use the Industry Standard Commands, and change them when they want to force people to buy new versions of their applications by making them incompatible with the latest version of Windows. Applications designed to work on versions of Linux back in 2000 work on the latest versions of Linux, as does hardware, that's because Linux uses the Industry Standard Command Set. Get over Microsft introduced problems and keep paying them money, if you want, that's your choice, but no reason to instruct others to do the same if they don't like it or want to keep feeding money to Microsoft when they shouldn't need to.

dougogd
dougogd

you and everyone like you can give us the money we spend on software that doesn't run on the newer operating systems. People whine because they loose money when they can't use what they pay for. People don't like to loose money, but since you are saying what you are saying it sounds like you like to get things ripped off from you.

Lazarus439
Lazarus439

Pray tell, how did all these poor folks get on XP in the first place? Did they buy their very first computer and all their programs after its release? Did their Windows 3.11 programs run on Windows 2000? Did their Windows 95 programs run on XP? I'm not a MAC guy, but even the most pure and holy Apple pretty much cut off the OS-9 programs when it changed to OS-X. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_9) This sort of whining has been going on as long as there have been computers, large small and in between, and it's unlikely to stop anytime soon. Get over it and accept that it's a fact of life.

RichardLeuenroth
RichardLeuenroth

as the applications that users have may have been designed for earleir versions of Windows. The real headache though, are the printer drivers and 64 bit processors. As best, they (the drivers) are flakey. This makes the users very angry when they cannot print their document. Net result, users don't want the new stuff.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

apps written for XP on Win 7. To start with, the Win XP Mode is NOT on any of the Home versions at all, so that means having to pay extra money to just even be able to try to run it. Earlier versions of MS Office do NOT run perfectly on Win 7, nor do many of the major games - I've spent a lot of time laughing at my son swearing because he can't get any of his games that run in XP to run on Win 7 - I've not tried out every piece of software, but several small businesses in Wagga have tried Win 7 (came on new machines) and had to have XP installed as the specialised software to manage their case work and appointments doesn't work, nor does some of the accounting software. Some apps do work for their main functions, but some minor or unusual functions don't work. One person at church is upset as the main accounting functions of their bookkeeping software works in Win 7, but the special add on to suit the Australian Tax Office won't run at all - and that's needed for legal reasons. There are plenty of others posting similar messages on the Internet about Win 7. And some third party apps are now offering Win 7 versions, which means buying a new copy to use Win 7, not nice at all.

dwdino
dwdino

BMW had no trouble with it, and all of our old software works fine. So much so that our W7 image is certified. Don't be so broad sweeping in your claims. It is becoming quite a habit.

ITSa341
ITSa341

We have accelerated and completed our migration to Linux corporate wide. We ran into a few employees who constantly complained but most actually enjoy the new OS and applications. Those who refused to learn have now been replaced with younger more open minded and for the most part more productive employees. I will not even get into the true cost savings except to say they even with migration and training costs we saved a bundle in the first year and will save more as time goes on.

dwdino
dwdino

... but need specifics. Scope of deployment, regulation compliance, commplexity of appplications and services, etc. It is one thing to say you jumped ship, it is another to do so with 50,000 workstations.

JCitizen
JCitizen

hopefully you have an IT staff that is competent in this way?

JCitizen
JCitizen

but I'd be even more interested in seeing how the shop floor views this. I remember back when Eaton went from '95 to '98, and things went badly with their data base. Lost 500 orders in an instant!! Our robots used such basic code, that it wouldn't matter much, but MS maintained interoperability in that arena. Only our new testing machines suffered, as they were becoming highly automated too. I had no problem troubleshooting these little brain farts, however. I was pretty impressed at the time. I'm sure it would be different now. Total factory integration was coming on strong even then.

nlbrown16
nlbrown16

I don't see any real advantage or difference between vista and 7. There is no reason for me to deploy 7.

heinrich
heinrich

Consider the following: (if someone has posted this previously, soooo sorry!) 1. Microsoft isn't offering any new licenses for XP, either single or volume, 2. Most of the big PC assemblers are shipping Win7 3. Win7 'gels' better with Server 2008 than XP, with Server 2008 following 1 & 2, compared to 2003 Taking all the above into account, and knowing users, I think a Win7 roll-out will happen faster than most companies predict. I can just see the 'I want that too!' rants happening?

Lazarus439
Lazarus439

In the U.S. (you're down under, right?), you can still order business line (Optiplex, Vostro, etc.) PCs and laptops from Dell with Win7 Pro or Ultimate, but "downgraded" to XP Pro for a few bucks more than just Win7. It's not a bad deal, because you get XP Pro now and also have Win7 to install on the machine when you're ready to do so later on. Last word I saw was that the vendors can continue this offering until (1) the first Win7 service pack or (2) 18 months from the date of Win7's release, [22 October 09, I think], whichever comes first. I don't know what HP, Lenovo, etc. are doing because we use Dell machines.

olivergacusan
olivergacusan

xp is a friendly operating system, easy to use and understand... if windows 7 prove that its more friendly and more reliable... thats the time to change xp to windows 7, vista problems have some difficulties in software, i hope wndows 7 will improve this problem... tnxs

vrodhogrider
vrodhogrider

I have already updated the machines I use to Windows 7. If it didn't have that damned frustrating and infuriating and apparently unavoidable Auto Arrange function, I would be quite happy with it, all things considered. As it is, that one thing drives me up the wall so badly, I may very well switch to the competition next time.

patrick.oosterling
patrick.oosterling

Windows 7 looks fine and works fine by me, if not for the fact that our VPN client is not working under Win7 and our TAPI driver is compatible so we can not make phone calls from our CRM database. Try to explain that to your users...

ggc620
ggc620

it is a pity they (windows) did'nt revamp xp leaving w7 to look like xp and not like vista,CUSTOMERS TAKE ONE LOOK AT W7 AND THINK IT IS VISTA !! with less button presses instead of more, leave thngs alone within an operating system if they ain't broke !! the dumb way of shuttinng down,the stupid way of networking need i go on ?.

chasty
chasty

After having beta tested Win 7 Pro it is true the best way to get performance form this OS is to do a clean install of it. Because of it's size and resource requirements it runs slowly in dual boot configuration with XP even on Windows Virtual PC. Plus if your CPU's do not have hardware virtulization capabilities you are not able to run any type of sound because the audio driver code was re-written upon final release for the newer CPU's. Long story short you have to install a new Motherboard and CPU to gain optimal performance these twp items alone are half-the price of a new PC, also do not forget you have to purchase the OS as well with the "licenesing agreement" and how long will that be good for?

eapallat
eapallat

I've read reports that state I have to back-up all my data, install Windows 7, REINSTALL all of my applications, then restore my data. WHY???? If true, this is inexcusable!!!

fa023678
fa023678

I have to say, it is very nice and gives me as a common user a very naturual feeling. To be completely honest, it is the first time that i feel comeing home with a new OS. Companies will be sceptic at first but as a uwer I do welcome it with open arms. Skip vista and jump right onto the 7 cruser. Please don't change again within the next 4 years. I would like to change pc an os at the same moment of their economic lifspan. (a hint for MS) have a nice 7-year, JanD

benwal91
benwal91

I find Windows 7 to be great... But it's not in my number one operating system of the year list. There are some things that makes me want to put it in the number 3 list... The networking... Can't make Vista communicate to 7 or 7 to Vista. (For home pc) Now gotta work on getting a Windows server and see if the sharing will be a little better. The WMP design is a little better... But what's with the play, FF, RW options not disappearing after a few seconds? I don't like seeing that' during movie watching.

kenmcgeester
kenmcgeester

Using 7 on personal computer and find it as easy as XP, maybe better. Bought new white box PC w/Vista and 7 upgrade. Went straight to 7 and no problems so far. Cicero

pbock
pbock

"It's New!" is not a legitimate business case. "you'll possibly need new hardware", "you'll have to run through the list of apps you use to make sure it will work", "another learning curve" doesn't help the case. Especially, when many companies already have a significant license cost investment, hardware investment, and knowledgeable user base centered around XP. Maybe windows 7 will be good for Micro$oft, but its not advantageous for my company.

eddyds
eddyds

Business need a reliable, secure, flexible and lean operating system, not a lovely one.

Dogcatcher
Dogcatcher

Well and succinctly said. Thanks.

RichB
RichB

7 is just MOTS from Microsoft. No real breakthroughs, just a reshuffling of the UI which means users need to relearn their PCs in order to do the same things as before. Other "new features" include obsoleting your current hardware and obsoleting your software. Oh wait, if I upgrade to 7 Professional. it has "XP compatibility mode". What a crock! We should spend even more money to buy an OS that runs like the release from two generations back? Why would we want do do any of this?

darren.stewart
darren.stewart

Windows 7 is better than Vista. But not by very much. With regret, changing the UI simply for the sake of change might have been acceptable. But making the UI worse? Not acceptable. Screwing up with every user path, = new training, hassle and would not be so bad if they were not so retarded. Adverts talking about less clicks to get more done. Don't know who at MS dreamt that one up, but 7 seems to require more clicks, and more screens to get the same done. Not acceptable. Move every icon and placement within the OS from where it used to be, seemingly just for the sake of it, and plainly not to make it 'better'. Group policy is retarded, with multiple XP items left in that don't work. Lazy. Unforgivable. The start bar, and program file editing now is utterly appalling. Program file menu's typically get out of control quickly, but at least you could drive in there and clean them up painlessly before. Doing so now is just agonising. Explorer comes in retarded mode, missing the edit and menu's, and the 'Up' button removed. Only some of the start button and explorer issues are actually editable to fix them. Its lamentably worse than before. And unlike before, in their wisdom, they removed the ability to run a legacy or classic mode. Gee whizz, thanks. Morons. Any and most programs that had issues with Vista, remain the same. Drivers got better, but only because 3rd parties had to provide this, along with some maturity. Older programs that did not work with Vista, will likely not work in 7. The only saving grace is that its operating footprint is lighter than Vista, which is good. But its virtually the only saving grace. Most of the pro 7 comment in the media is lamentable, and misleading, not to meantion disappointing.

ty.lamb
ty.lamb

So it's Microsofts job to provide drivers for every item in existance? You're giving 3rd parties credit for finally delivering drivers for Vista 2 and 3 years after the fact. And I guess it's Microsofts fault that 64 bit drivers are still hard to come by in some cases? Ok...

darren.stewart
darren.stewart

Its not Microsoft's job to provide all the drivers. But get this very clear, if you change the driver model, and break compatability, its *not* the 3rd party's fault, and if you do a very poor job on the OS, then they will drag their feet on releases. Hence 7 benefits from the maturing process, but MS broke the OS in this regard, not the 3rd parties. People like you need to remember that MS chnaged the gfx driver model, with promises of stability in exchange for a little worse performance. This 'model of stability' was nightmarish in nature for the 3rd parties and for the end users. No excuses, if you break it, you fix it. I barely touched on drivers, there are far more important things that suck in 7 beyond drivers. The mature side of the drivers is less relevant to application breakage, none running, and utterly broken and stupid UI changes.

Who Am I Really
Who Am I Really

Win7, Not likely; Not next week, Not next year, Not ever if I can help it, My line of work doesn't allow for the changes made to the OS since vi$ta which are carried forward into 7. None, ya that's right, none of my current applications will work in vi$ta or 7, I do audio creation, recovery & repair, and the apps. I use I know how to use efficiently, and the hardware I use is not compatible with vi$ta or 7 and it never will be. I don't know or even care if there is any updated hardware, and apps that work with vista or 7, as a business person it's not efficient to waste months relearning how to do what I already know how to do with my current setup.

cutting
cutting

I would need new computers, new printers, new this and new that and training - that is going to be interesting. Budget won't allow new systems at this time. I figure that once the machines start showing age, needing replacement items, it will be justifiable.

user support
user support

At work we are struggling with budget cuts and furloughs. We are robbing memory chips from employees machines that have retired as some machines 4 years old running XP on 512 MB memory can't keep up with 2 year old machines with 1 GB memory. We are still running IE 6 because new versions aren't compatible with some custom web based database software. We are also only on Office XP as well because of custom software compatibility issues. My home pc's are doing fine with Windows XP home and tablet. I had to break down and get an iMac so my child could do homework. The mac seems to be more mouse oriented which is hard for me, since I have been keyboard oriented. Hopefully learning something about Mac's and Linux will help keep the Alzheimer's in check until my later years.

Dogcatcher
Dogcatcher

My advice is unchanged from last year: * There is no compelling reason to upgrade a desktop system to Windows 7, if you have a system that is working satisfactorily. * There may be networking and battery-life benefits that justify putting Win7 on a laptop, but carefully verify that no necessary proprietary functions will be lost. * Most users will be able to adapt to Win7, if that is the OS that comes with new hardware. * Migrating from XP to Win7 is time-consuming for the technician and for the user who likes to customize his/her PC. Those indirect costs should not be ignored. * You can get an XP-downgrade installation under the Win7 license from Dell and others if you really need/want to stick with XP. One thing that has changed from last fall that makes Win7 a more attractive option is the increasing number of tutorials, registry hacks, and applets appearing via the web that restore XP-like functionality to Win7 and that remove or modify some of the stupid aspects of Win7's user interface. A tip of the hat to those who are helping in this effort.

Smart_Neuron
Smart_Neuron

Hi. Is there a way to enable the Fly-Out Menu that XP has? I do not see a native way via Windows 7, which really annoys me. Any ideas? TIA :0)

CharlieSpencer
CharlieSpencer

Right-click 'My Computer' Properties Advanced Performance Visual Effects Uncheck 'Fade or slice menus in to view' ???

serenitywizard
serenitywizard

Microsoft screwed up...they made XP too good...will be quite a while before people think of switching! No one trusts the new operating systems anymore...too many unknown problems to face in the future....better to keep what you got, and works well...why switch?

kjvaughan
kjvaughan

Looking on the posts, I seem to have heard the exact answers when Windowa 98 replaced 95, when 98 was, in theory, replaced by 2000, then both replaced by XP on software cost and on updating hardware. If it works don't break it seems to be the best thing to do unless you can afford it!