Windows optimize

Would you call yourself a Stubborn Donkey?


I still know some people who love and are very happy with their Windows 98 and Windows ME computers. If you are still a user of Windows 98 or Windows ME, you fall under what I call the “Stubborn Donkey syndrome” - you know the operating system, you know what it looks like, where things go, where things should be, and resist change with every fiber of your being.

The operating system works for you and you are happy. Not everyone wants to upgrade year after year after year. I hold a car 10 years; I don’t buy a new model every two years.

Please take our poll. 

70 comments
R2Warped2
R2Warped2

By downloading all the "fixes" and being patient, not only did ME turn out to me a hugely stable platform; recovery from disasters was easy and quick. As an added bonus, when XP came out, all the hackers went after XP users, and we ME types sat around smirking because nobody was bothering to even try to hack us, virus us, or much of anything.

miltbern
miltbern

I do not think you have to be stubborn to not upgrade immediately. From everything I have read about the Vista OS, it s holding true to what has been said about Microsoft's new offerings. When they issue a new OS, wait 6 months to a year to let the bugs get cleaned out and lots of other people do the beta testing. Besides, 'if it ain't broke don't fix it"!

pennatomcat
pennatomcat

(I'm using OpenOffice, too) 5 machines: 1 new laptop using Vista 2 desktops using XP 1 old k6 desktop using 98 1 old P3 laptop using 98SE All are being dual-boot enabled with various flavors of Linux. (Kubuntu, PCLinuxOS, PuppyLinux) Debating whether or not to wipe Vista or to keep it for reference when assisting others.

tisdave
tisdave

I'm not stuck in the Win98/Me catagory. But I have been running Win2000Pro for years, and find it so stable I hate to change. For one, it is the expense of an upgrade. And two, it is the hassle of having to reconfigure and/or reinstall my system just so others can enjoy the latest-and-greatest video streams or game play. I do basic things that don't require 50GB of memory at 10,000GHz of speed. So why should I be forced into an expensive mold just to keep Bill Gates in the hunt for "World's Richest Man" competition. Don't peddle that "security" angle here. There isn't a truly secure system made -- as long as there are crooks there will be security issues. Vista doesn't fix the problems, it just renames them to challenge somebody else's hacking-quotient. In the meantime, I'll keep running my system as long as I can -- and like most will change when I have to.

pyropakjim
pyropakjim

At home, I have a network of 4 PCs (3 desktops and 1 laptop) running XP Home and XP Pro, along with a Linux (Ubuntu) desktop, a Win98SE laptop, 2 Win98SE desktops (rarely used), a 286 with DOS 6.22, and a TRS-80 Color Computer. We just bought 8 new 3.06GHz desktops for work with XP PRo, running a WinNT 4.0 server, with other XP Pro, Win2000 and Win98SE desktops. Some stand-alone PCs running special software are still using Win 3.11 and DOS. Viva diversity!

WhatThe?
WhatThe?

There's an old southern saying "don't fix what ain't broke", and neither Windows 2000 nor Windows XP is "broke". If a user is satisfied with their operating system, what incentive is there to spend several hundred dollars upgrading hardware, another couple of hundred to purchase Vista, and then many hours of anguish trying to get it all to work? Prettier pictures? Trendy screensavers? What I have (Windows XP Pro) works just fine for me and my purposes, and all the ancillary software I have purchased for specific functions works, too. There is no incentive to make a change, nor will I. Sorry, Bill.

yagar
yagar

Take an old 1.8 gig processor add 1 gig of memory. Load up 98 and Office 2K. You have a screaming platform that out performs any Vista or XP machine, and I mean ANY. Cost for the 98 and office is $0. If MS wants to continually make things worse, try to force their garbage down your throat, then I say break their license on products they don't even support anymore, use it for free. If your lucky, I've found 3 of them, you can pick up a 1.8gig PC for less than $200, monitor included. Even a PIII in the range of 700 or 800 or up will make you a fine PC. Yes, there are new versions of programs that you can't use, so what. Most of the new versions of programs are just as much the same hype as XP and VISTA are. The older versions of the programs will more than likely do what you need to get done and do it considerably faster. I wish somebody would work on 98 to fix it so it would run on faster machines. Even having to reboot 98 when it runs into memory problems doesn't bother me that much, (with a gig of memory it doesn't happen near as often).

lastchip
lastchip

I answered yes to the poll as in general I suppose I am. I still use Win ME (Oh No!) and Win2K occasionally when I need to use Windows, and they do everything I need in that environment. I've also got an XP box that I use when supporting XP users, but don't use as a system as such. But more and more I'm using Kubuntu and as I become more familiar with Linux, Windows will eventually be dropped apart from one or two application specific uses and for support reference. Incidentally, Kubuntu with Beryl is a very impressive combination for home users and makes Vista look like play-school. Interestingly, we hear about all sorts of problems with lack of Vista drivers, but Kubuntu (Linux) which is as sighted as lacking drivers, installed without a hitch and everything just works. So one has to ask the question, which is really lacking in functionality?

beak.consulting
beak.consulting

I like change, but Windows is one OS which my heart is finding hard to accept. I think it is an OS Microsoft has designed without looking at computing realities in Africa. I will keep my XP until it is no longer supportable.

Ambercroft
Ambercroft

Still using 98se, no reason to grade ( haven't seen proof for [ up ] ). Primary use is e-mail and some business document transfers. Last time when I upgraded from win95 I would have lost important e-mail if I didn't have Linux to do recovery. Anything worthwhile is done on one of many Linux boxes.

d_baron
d_baron

I still have win98 because I have older equipment and lack driver support for anything later. Frankly, w2k was the best they had and it did not render your programs and most hardware useless as did later "upgrades" I mostly use Linux (also no support for my older but professional soundcard). Use win98 just for music production. Linux for everything else.

carlsf
carlsf

There is NO way MS are going to get me to VISTA or office 2007 in the next 2 years. REASON COST!!! My currenr systems are only 1 to 2 years old with high spec's, and to run VISTA Ultimate I nee to upgrade my hardware min for 1 system NZ$500.00 max for one of the others NZ$1500.0 to upgrade all six systems TOTAL of just on NZ$6000.00 and that is with out purchasing VISTA Ultimate F/P for each system NZ995 + tax and as for Office 2007 Profesional NZ$595 + tax. This is way outside whjat I would even consider spending Regards carl

tommarwick
tommarwick

Change is the meat which keeps MS-OS writers in business. Unfortunately in the nature of commerce to keep the gravy trane rolling they find themselves obliged to re-issue their offerings more often than actual progress requires. Shame really for them as this is the very phenomenon which will eventually hand the gravy boat across to the Linux Community.

work
work

I have an XP pro laptop and a new Vista laptop. The Vista laptop came from Dell with Vista Business preinstalled. It has had an incompatible driver error from the start which is not good. It also suffers from a BSOD every day or two. The XP laptop responds quicker, does not get BSOD's and is generally more reliable. I am not stubborn but will keep using XP as my main computer.

Gennady
Gennady

of course, not windows 98/95 or ME - I hate them. But I skip many versions and this saves a lot of time to me. I stayed with Windows NT4 until late 2003 (almost 8 years) and this saved me a lot of time and effort on upgrading to windows 2000, also saved on upgrading hardware. Since 2003 I'm running XP and so far it's OK with me, so I'll skip Vista. Same with Office. I used Office 1997 until 2004, then switched to outlook 2003 and excel 2003, while still preserving access 97. Did I miss anything? No. What would upgrades to Office 2000, then to XP, then to 2003 give to me? Nothing, except wasted time and resources. What does Office XP do that Office 97 does not do? Nothing. I think I will also skip Office 2007 - as they have a converter to open new file formats in 2003, I have no reason for another upgrade. So, yes, I am a stubborn donkey.

Johnny Bee
Johnny Bee

I personally run four machines at home, networked with Windows XP Pro (no, I have not jumped to Linux as I don't have the time to fiddle with my computers for hours on end). I do, however, know people who are still running Windows 98 and ME simply because their computers will not run anything more recent. This, in some cases, is due to personal economics, and in others because they really don't see a need to mess with something that is still working well for them. Now that hackers are attacking higher end machines they don't really need to worry about most of the garbage floating around out there. Their biggest gripe is about how slow the internet is these days. As soon as I start explaining about graphics and file sizes their eyes glaze over. All they see is dollar signs going out the "windows". So in this case the donkey may not be stubborn, just a tightwad.

ZDandy
ZDandy

My brother still uses a 98se PC - I'd like to make it more secure, but of course MS don't support it any more and neither does the Firewall vendor. I'd be interested to know if others are concerned about using an OS that could be becoming steadily more vulnerable... Andy

Jay_H
Jay_H

The best of the office lot. All the features that most people will ever need, with a LOT lighter footprint.

docotis
docotis

I don't see much point in using more OS than the job requires. It took me several years to switch to XPpro, W2k did everything that was needed and runs on modest hardware. I still use it for most purposes. Bells and whistles don't make for better computing. No interest in Vista at all. I think we reached the point of diminishing returns.

shawkins
shawkins

On one hand, I have computers that work reliably (most of the time) and run XP with a little WIN 98 thrown in. Just ordered some more notebooks a few days ago to insure we had systems available with XP on them. Vista offers absolutely no compelling reason to upgrade in my opinion. In addition, it has bugs, both known and unknown. It has driver problems (I know many people that can't make their other hardware work, etc. Before anyone whines about how driver problems are not Microsoft's fault/problem, let me say that I don't care what you think. What I care about is that problems exist and I don't want to deal with them. Vista is expensive. Vista is more intrusive and phones home to Microsoft more often, etc. Basically.... who needs it? Hmmm.. not me.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

It's much cheaper and you don't have to worry about stickers on the cases. Only down side is that with the advent of Vista you need to Activate it now. But for the Cost of Volume License Product you could have everything that you need as well as Software Assurance for less than the cost of OEM Software. Though I personally think that Software Assurance is a waste of money as it's only available for 3 years and Vista has a projected life cycle of 4 years so I don't see any advantage to having it unless you buy something close to the end of one product line so you get the next for the yearly subscription. Col

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

According to M$ that was removed and changed to a Red Screen of Death. Well not quite as you are supposed to see the Red Screen when something Critical happens to kill the OS and you should only see the Blue Screen when something really nasty happens. Apparently you should only see the Blue screen when something much more fatal happens to the OS and by default when a Fatal Error Occurs you should see the Red Screen. I haven't seen either yet but by the same token I'm not quite sure what's the difference between a Fatal Error and a Much More Fatal Error is. But maybe that's just my total lack of understanding but from my prospective you can only kill something once. :D Col

erik
erik

Ever thought that Dell's to blame for your BSOD? I'm not saying that MS is the best way to go, but because your Dell gives you a BSOD you blame MS. Maybe you should think twice. MS has a great product with Vista. The only thing that I ran into is that other softwarewriters and hardwarevendors don't do their homework. Even this is something that MS tries to solve with Vista.

sbarringer
sbarringer

There are Linux distros that install under an hour (average user can do this install; no geekiness required) and be online. There is no fiddling for hours needed. Try Xandros, MEPIS, Freespire, etc. If you want to use your old Windows Apps, use Wine or Cross-over.

lastchip
lastchip

"no, I have not jumped to Linux as I don't have the time to fiddle with my computers for hours on end" My Kubuntu install took 45 minutes complete with all the software needed for "normal" use. I would suggest there is no way you could install XP in 45 minutes plus all the software you need to make it a viable operating system. As with all operating systems however, there is a learning curve, which cannot be avoided.

jmdusty
jmdusty

If your bro has all the latest (no longer supported) updates that came down the pike and a firewall such as ZoneAlarm and a vir. scan such as AVG, they do still support 98SE. I'm one of those foot-dragers still running SE (pruned to where I love it) and see no point in even considering Xp. We'll just have to see how Vista works out as the bugs come out of it. If nothing else I'll keep SE and upgrade to Vista and just dual boot when needed. All ready hearing complaints from friends that have bought new (with vista) comps. and can't play their favorate games.

Moonlight_Gambler
Moonlight_Gambler

Don't have any problems. I use AVG, ZoneAlarm, (version 5.5.094.000, the newer versions use too many resources), and WinPatrol, with Opera as my browser. All email is previewed as text using Opera's email client. Windows 98 runs my favorite applications better than Windows XP, but unfortunately is not as stable. So my next computer will be a Mac Book Pro - with Windows 98 on it!

bfrankenhoff
bfrankenhoff

Yes, especially with the latest outbreaks. In order to upgrade, we have to purchase new accounting software for our business where the upgrade is more expensive than the original software, has fewer "modules" and loses network support. What was orginally a $300 package will cost better than $800 to replace the existing functionality. Not to mention the other supporting software and hardware that we use. However, this system is quickly going to become a standalone system as we have a 2nd machine (XP) that will be our network / internet system assuming we can keep up with the security updates.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

work on 98 and the like as they're targeted at the code in Win 2K, Win XP, and soon Win Vista, which has lots of differences to Win 98.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

With 98 the user base is now so small that's it's not worth the effort in writing anything specifically aimed at it. If you where one of the nasties who delight in this type of thing XP is currently the way to go and if Vista eventually takes off XP will eventually be relegated into the obsolete technology that 95/98 is now. Of course here M$ sold both 98 and XP together and allowed the customer to buy what they wanted now they have removed the incentive to supply XP and are pushing Vista to increase sales Revenue. This could backfire on them and make a lot of people who are less than happy with them seriously start to look elsewhere as they feel that they no longer have any choice. Col

lastchip
lastchip

It's a bit like Hi-Fi. Here in the UK ?1000.00p will buy you a good basic true Hi-Fi system that will knock spots off any packaged system. But you can spend many times more than that and only get a very slight improvement. It's the same with (say) W2K v XP v Vista. Each one does a little more than the previous, but at additional cost and in the case of Vista, a lot more cost in the UK. You can't keep reinventing the wheel forever!

RknRlKid
RknRlKid

It dawned on me that when Vista doesn't come with all drivers, its not Microsoft's fault, and quit whining. But when LINUX doesn't have all the drivers, its a substandard operating system that's not well conceived because it doesn't come with all the drivers! ;)

work
work

It gets logged as follows: Problem signature Problem Event Name: BlueScreen OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.6 Locale ID: 2057 Red would add a little variety. I have not looked at the problem yet as a bit busy and a reboot makes it ok for a while. I do agree on the killing bit and I guess if your dead it doesn't matter if you're very dead. Mark

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

definitely not the software and hardware vendors. Over a decade ago, an industry standard for instruction codes was agreed upon and issued. Since then the third party software developers have been incorporating those instructions into their software, as have the hardware manufacturers. Only one major player doesn't use the industry standard, guess - yep right Microsoft. Not only don't they not use the industry standards, they don't even have a Microsoft standard, they change them with each major release, and that's the main reason why so much of the software isn't compatible with other MS Windows OSs. When XP SP1 came out, they changed some of the basic instructions used in XP, and a whole bunch of third party software stopped working, because MS changed the basic code. They didn't tell anyone about it, until well after it happened, and they made them buy another set of codes off of MS. the best and quickest way to tell if the fault with the dell laptop is the fault of the hardware or of Windows, is to try installing another operating system on it, like Linux or MS XP Pro. If the other OS goes on and works without constant crashes, the fault is definitely in Vista. If it still crashes, then it's flaky hardware. Odds are the problem is Vista.

ZDandy
ZDandy

I had considered upgrading the PC to XP (I do actually find it more stable than 98se) and then use VMWare to run a minimalist 98se OS purely to run the app that needs 98. Of course, as a fresh install, this would have no critical updates at all...

sbarringer
sbarringer

I'm one of those people who looked elsewhere and found Linux/Unix. I have one box running win98SE, all the others are Linux. Continuing to run Win 95 or Win 98 was just fine with me. When I feel forced into anything, I find an alternative, including using nothing, if it comes to that.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

a few similar terms: Bloody SODding mess Bugger it, SOD off this rubbish more Bloody SODding windows rubbish damn Bill SODding gates it was a lot easier to use just the one acronym for all the major situations

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

I wonder, Vista is supposed to check memory very carefully, I wonder if it may be a bad section of RAM on the video card?

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

I've just had a quick look on the Vista Forum and come up with these Links to that error message http://tinyurl.com/3eyvy2 http://tinyurl.com/32fah5 And some say that I'm not a good ambassador for TR here the sole respondent is virtually saying PI$$ OFF We can not be bothered. :D http://tinyurl.com/3c9uzc http://tinyurl.com/32h4n3 Apparently this is so common and without a fix that now no one seems to think that's its abnormal. :^0 I now see what happening this isn't a problem it's one of [b]M$ Undocumented Features[/b] I should have known that M$ wouldn't tell people about such a useful feature that required the disabling of the Video Card to make the system work again. But it's good to know that the problem has been around unfixed since the Beta 2 days. I guess that M$ Programmers didn't quite get around to fixing those 5,000 Bugs a Day that they where finding in May 06 and this was told to the Partners and supposed to make us feel good about Vista. :0 By the looks of things for every problem that they fixed they created another 2,000 which even for M$ must be some kind of record. :^0 Actually I was thinking about this after I made the original post and this is what I think is supposed to happen you see a Red SCOD and that is when it feels like some out of control Female is nagging you so much that you wish you where dead and when you see the BSOD you know that you are now dead and don't need to put up with the nagging anymore. Col

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

plenty of Wizrd problems, driver problems, user problems, SW problems, and HW problems. But, as yet I still have not come close to seeing them all (maybe in a few thousand more years)... But I will say that the manufacturers such as Dell create their own 'image' and test the OS on a particular model before stating the model is OS ??? ready. However, if MS changed something then it may not be Dell's fault. But, loading the Standard Image (before updating), if there are driver problems, it is more likely to be a HW issue. And, I have been through several rollouts. There is approx a 15% to 20% chance of HW problems on new notebooks.

HAL 9000
HAL 9000

Cause the same problems with XP when it was first released? I have copies of Easy CD Creator going back to the Corel Products version 1 or 1.5 and only stopped using it when I was forced to switch to XP on the majority of the XP installed machines I still have it on one XP Machine and granted it's a much latter version but it just works without a problem is much easier to turn an ISO Image into a working CD/DVD and Spin Doctor made transferring Vinyl to CD so much easier. When I was forced to Nero I stopped moving the Vinyl to CD as it was just too hard and time consuming compared to Spin Doctor with Easy CD Creator. Col

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

that ALWAYS know better than the actual user or tech, especially the driver wizard - they're forever blowing away non MS drivers and replacing them with MS drivers as they see a non MS driver as being corrupt. Part of the MS 'You will pay us to do anything with Windows' attitude.

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

Dell would have tested all of the HW with Vista before certifying it as Vista Capable. So, it sounds to be much more likely that there is a faulty piece of HW

w2ktechman
w2ktechman

My bet is a HW issue. It was stated that there was a driver incompatibility, and BSOD's. If the notebook came pre-installed with Vista, all of the HW in it is certified to work with Vista. The incompatible driver is probably due to malfunctioning HW that is not identifying it properly to Vista, or is an add-on (not part of the original package) that is incompatible. If Vista tries to use this HW, it may be causing the BSOD.

Tanderson
Tanderson

Ok so Ernest is onto it, Vista had an issue at least with the Roxio drivers for the burners in there portables, I know this because I have one (9400) and am working on it now. There is a patch avalible on Dells tech site.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

need is one piece of non bog standard hardware that doesn't use a bog standard MS driver, and the MS OS will kill itself because it will automatically decide you were a fool to install a non MS digitally signed driver , and thus it must be wrong and the wizard will load the closest MS digitally signed driver; that won't work and the system will BSOD. I've seen this exact behaviour from MS with their driver wizards for most of the last decade. It a big problem here in Australia for modems, Windows hates the Australian modem drivers and is forever dumping the 'corrupted' drivers. In the end I found a way to make the USA drivers work here, and no longer have this problem. The main difference between the Telco code sets is the dial tone signal, turn off 'Wait for Dial Tone' and most USA modem drivers will work OK in Australia, not quite as well as the Australian ones, but you don't have to keep reloading them after Windows dumps the manufacturer's driver on you.

stevebuck
stevebuck

flaky hardware. We've got two new notebooks in our office that came pre-installed with Vista, one Fujitsu and a Sony. The Sony is OEM'd by Asus, the Fujitsu I don't know. Neither has any stability problems. Dell, on the other hand, just buys their notebooks from a big manufacturer in China. It probably has a BIOS bug, or poorly layed out motherboard. I don't think it is Vista's problem.

Deadly Ernest
Deadly Ernest

she went to play her favourite game - Tetris, hits start, flash of colour followed by 'Want to play another game' I had to get her a newer version as the difference betwen a 25 mhz and 166 mhz system was too much, for it just flashed by. Had a few games like that, they were fun to watch. Many DOS based applications won't run on a modern system due to changes in system instructional sets. The very old hardware needed code specific to that piece of hardware in the BIOS to make the hardware work, modern hardware has some built in processing and now only requires some generic instructions. However, there are programs you can get that will get over this. The real problem is MS not using the industry standard code set, and changing them from version to version. If the issue was just a case of old hardware, then no OS or application from that period should work on a modern machine, but I have many applications and games written for Windows that won't run on the current Windows systems; load the original version of Windows on the system and it will run, load Linux with WINE and it will run. This is a clear indication it's the software of Windows not the application or hardware incompatibility. edited to fix cut and paste placing error

boomchuck1
boomchuck1

It isn't just MS that makes the old software obsolete. I've seen plenty of this, software and hardware, for the Mac that won't run on the newer version of the OS. But past that I've also run into issues where old software won't run on new computers. I had a user that had a critical Lotus 123 spreadsheet / macro application they ran on a DOS based Lotus program. When I tried to give them a new computer (back in the Pentium II days) the application would fail to run. Had absolutely nothing to do with the OS, but rather changes in the processors and architecture of the new computers would not handle software written for old hardware. On a lighter side I had some games (anybody remember the Friendly PC games?) that we enjoyed playing on a PC AT. When we got our 386 Everex PC we found out that the movements in the game were clock based and suddenly even at the very lowest level playing Frogger was like trying to get across the Indianapolis speedway!

RknRlKid
RknRlKid

There is an "unofficial" Windows 98 SP2 that contains the critial updates. The only issue I have had as far as updates is with Internet Explorer 6 (using SP1). My solution was to download the updates and make a "restore CD" that has all the updates on it. By having that, I can clean install in about 30 minutes (this includes OS, updates and all applications).