Discussion on:

Making Vista run legacy applications is easy

Does Vista run older apps that won't run on XP? Specifically DOS apps that run only on Win95 and before?

Thanks for any info.

I support a small office that uses W95-era program for making calendars (Calendar Creator) that subsequent versions only messed up, not improved. So far it can run in XP only in Compatibility Mode. However, I believe it's a 16-bit program, and my question to you (or whomever) is: will Vista's "in the box" version of XPs compatibility mode allow legacy 16-bit appplications to run (virtually)? I hope so.

In the face of older applications where the manufacturer is no longer available, the answer is no, won?t run in Vista. What you are doing and correct me if I?m wrong, is you are creating a ?work around? which would compromise security of Vista. Digitally signed certs were a joke in XP, and can easily be circumvented in Vista. Matter of fact, that?s what most hacks are about, identity theft.

Core applications need to be redesigned to not access the Kernel directly or at all. Memory locations need to be more secure. Vista is still prone to buffer overflows in many areas. I assume these will be fixed with dated patch cycles down the line but in the mean time, this is one sticky point in Vista. The same problem existed in XP but has grown more numerous with the current set of patches. I find that an XP station loaded with SP1 is more secure than any current XP configuration with up to date patches.

Again, my main concern is not the tech sector. When problems arise, we can find the answers we need or the work arounds to complete the task at hand. Joe User is again at the mercy of such attacks and usually the number of problems mostly are not reported by corporate, but by average users around the globe. Microsoft needs to separate their corporate OS from the average everyday user OS. In Corporate, most smart companies test patches prior to deployment, which would account for most companies still running flavors of Windows such as Windows 2000 and 2000 server as opposed to running Windows 2003 which is not yet ready for prime time.

By design, Vista locks down the Kernel. Good that you have a programmer or manufacturer willing to create a ?shim? for their product, in order for it to work. But for those programs no longer supported, and with no alternative, it?s a bit difficult to sell the point of Vista when the initial cost of the hardware already outweighs the logic to run old apps.

Vista can lie to the application that it's really running in Win9x with 256-colors if need be.

Well, I guess if we're now running this 16-bit dinosaur effectively in XP SP2 with the current application compatibility features in XP, one can just hope that Vista will still "support the lie" and keep things happening.

If not, then we may leave ourselves with one machine running XP for as long as possible and use that program only there. But eventually we'll hit a wall (maybe with a true 64 bit/32 bit or nothing OS). Then we'll probably run to a Virtual PC type of thing. Gosh, all for making good calendars. Sheesh.

The 64 bit version of Vista is for highend work stations. They tossed away a bunch of really old legacy stuff. 32 bit version of Vista will have a lot of the old stuff.

When MS make it available as a Beta till them I'll not try to guess at what it's supposed to do and how well it works.

Yes I did sign up for notification when it becomes available for download.

Col

I have not experimented with Vista, but the DOS apps I wrote in the 80s run on XP just as they did in DOS. The original programming cannot make use of the newer "Windows" printers, but that is due to the printers, not the OS. The old apps still function well on XP with the older printers.

It's all in the programming: if the original programming called DOS services instead of taking shortcuts, it runs on XP.

VPC takes good care of our legacy stuff, and our DOS Apps. run on XP although not in fullscreen mode. VPC DOS tends to load CPU 100% while running. How does this compare to DOS without VPC in XP? Also how do you run DOS in fullscreen on XP? Suggestions would be welcome!

I have an accounting program I've developed that is DOS. It uses a batch file (.bat)to load the database manager then runs an executable (.exe). I send the .bat to the desk top which creates the shortcut. When the shortcut runs, the opening screen of the program loads in the top half of the screen. By pressing & holding the "alt" key while pressing the "enter" key, the screen temporarily goes "black" then the application comes up in full screen. Works for XP Pro and Home versions. If your DOS program doesn't use a .bat file to startup, I'd try sending the .exe to the desktop as a shortcut and see if that works. Or, try the "alt" & "enter" keys as stated above as your program runs now. Hope this helps.

Have you tried to set up the command window (your "DOS" box) to start in full screen. It's very easy to do.

Thanks pweegar. Yes my DOS does run properly in full screen as a virtual machine in MS VPC. All of the features i.e. printers etc also work nicely. My only problem now is the loading of the CPU (100%) by DOS which makes it difficult to run other Apps simultaniously.
I thought running DOS without emulation or VPC might lighten the load to enable co-running of other Windows Apps.

You can fix the CPU issue with Tao ExDOS. It's a software that fixes many different issues for DOS on XP, Vista and Win7.
Among the fixes, there's the CPU load issue. Very comprehensive

http://www.taocs.co.il

thank

Thanks nielclark. Tried it and works well, although the the App only occupies the top half, the bottom half remains black. Changing resolution did not resolve it, but you got me looking into the Properties of the Shortcut (easy to set the same fullscreen there). And checking out 'Advanced' it pointed to Windows PIF Settings "Custom MS-DOS initialization files - AUTOEXEC.NT." Maybe also opportunity in there to modify startup of DOS Apps...

It can be used to copy in RAW format, so in theory it can still work. I used it to copy OS/2 which could only be copied in RAW because of the Boot Loader. To make matters worse, RAW is slow since it is running at the bit level and in my case had to copy to another drive of the same geometry and size.
Jake

is breaking these applications with Vista, how about MS and the 3rd party software vendor collaborating and issueing an automatic update that fixes these applications for you ? It only makes sense, the drivers and all this security is a collaboration ? Oh, wait, that's right, MS Vista is still broken itself ! How can one expect applications to be fixed automatically when Vista itself isn't quite right ?

.
It is pretty disgusting that Vista, the latest version of Windows, requires an "Application Compatibility Toolkit" in order to run Windows applications.

Enough said.