Discussion on:

Evolution The Great Lie

Evolutionsist proclaim their good idea is science but in reality severely lacks credible strength on numerous serious scientific failures of the theory. While the logic 'sounds' good and the science 'feels' good, the theory falls drastically short of credible acceptance.

Originally, this good idea was formed over 140 years ago and has undergone severe scrutiny to the point that died hard Darwinist have had to modify their belief into new Darwinism. This lead to the creation of a highly sectarian group of Neo-Darwinist who are headed by Dr. Richard Dawkins. Dr Dawkins published his book, "The Blind WatchMaker" which has become a Bible of sorts to this emergent sect of radicalized atheist.

Some of the scientific failure of this Neo-Darwinist Sect include:

1. The natural occurrence of randomness, which Neo-Darwinism relies upon, does not exist in this natural universe. Scientists and mathematicians unilaterally agree that the universe is a perfectly ordered - indeterminant system which precludes any notion of randomness. Natural randomness cannot be mathematically modelled as the universe is perfectly ordered and randomness is counter to perfect order. So the root premise of Darwinism that biological life is the outcome of chance, random events cannot possibly exist. The Theory fails on its most basic premise.

2. Evolution Theory continues and states that during an alleged random chance event that the conditions were just right for a natural phenonmenon to 'cause' biological life to spark in existence. This apparently was a singularity as there is no durable scientific evidence of a life sparking natural process other than copulation. This fails fundamental scientific rigor that states natural principles, axioms, or processes are consistent, timeless, and ubiquitious throughout the universe. Once again Evolution Theory fails.

3. Once biological life emerged from some sort of protoplasmal premordial pool of goop, over time it 'evolved' into higher life forms and bifuricated into the modern animal kingdom. However, there is no scientific evidence of vertical transspecies evolutionary processes that would be expected to be ongoing. This again is apparently another singularity as this fails fundamental scientific rigor that states natural principles, axioms, or processes are consistent, timeless, and ubiquitious throughout the universe. Once again Evolution Theory fails.

Evolution has failed on three of its most essential postulations. This places all other notions in the Theory as a farce and senseless babble. Once again Evolution is not science and has no strength in science.

Unfortunately, radicalized sectarian elements of the evolutionary movement continue to insist that evolution is a truth. Their tactics range from projection, name calling, and organizing clever prejudicial arguments in support of this baseless theory. Their efforts continue to peddle this farce to innocent children not much different that Radicalized Muslims codify their youth in the Madrassah's.

Perhaps Pink Floyd was more honest than not with their song "Another Brick In The Wall"

I have said before and will say again- you believe what you believe and I will believe what I believe. I don't care if they are inclusive or exclusive beliefs. I don't really care WHAT you believe... but I will defend your right to believe it.

This topic has been done. To death. At the end of the day, what we know is that we don't know. We have theories. Some of the less fortunate MARRY their theories. This is not a good thing.

I have no problem with the concept that we emerged form some primordial soup. I don't buy it, but if you want to believe it, be my guest.

Global warming is a lot more fun. I learn things there.

But there is a group in another thread that I am challenging. That thread was getting to long and would not load on my machine. Perhaps I'll start global Warming thread as I have watched "An Inconvenient Truth".

is for Mr. Gore to explain why, if he's so worried, he flies around the country using more fuel in a week than my SUV does in a year!

I saw that. I also noted that he became interested in Global Warming in 1959 but all his data for the most part was 2001 and later. Everything ended in 2005 which show normal cyclic trending. Except his projections made astronomical claims.

Another scare tactic roaming around out there is we are running out of land and there will be global starvation. That is the next big one.

Stop making excuse for your own inadequacies.

It's true! He ran like hell when he was challenged..

He seems to believe that no one will notice that all the aliases displayed on his prior posts will change to this new one.

... you were so much funnier in the good old days when you talked about your miserably failed love life.

Do you still do pictures of cute, famous chicks in bikinis?

But it is a new year, after all.

I'm betting total post count, ummm, 468 in two weeks from today. Anyone interested in an e-wager?

I don't think that this thread will pass 300 in 2 weeks (say by 14-Feb-07 - Valentine's Day!!)

Loser has to use the avatar selected by the winner for a period of 2 weeks.

We on?

With stalwarts like Medison jumping to the bait already, this will be shooting carp in a barrel.

For me:

- It is inappropriate to respond to every single post with another post saying "Good point, can you elaborate?".

For you:

- you cannot call every newbie a "dumb f'ck who has no place in TR" and thus discourage their intercourse. As such.

Is that okay?

And the bet is - over 300 or under 300 by close biz Feb 14.

If it's a tie, do we have to kiss or something? Eeewwwwwwwww.

The few posts that we include in this portion will not count toward the 300. But an honorable wager between honorable parties doesn't need many rules. Although I must say that I expect and hope that many who might typically fall prey to this thread are sick enough of the many other threads that have gone on before that they'll stay away with a "been there - done that" attitude.

If it's a tie, why don't we allow some disinterested 3rd party to select avatars for both of us?

You don't have to worry about me being involved in this type of thread. I stay a long way away from religious debates. See, I'm Catholic, so I don't read the Bible and don't have the faintest idea what's in the damn thing!

stealing all the freaky religious posters. Bastards.

Oh, for the old days, and threads like EL; they just don't make'em like that anymore.

You got 45 posts over the weekend. Even this post will help as it'll show up in the posts from my contacts for 26 people

I think I got the avatar picked out, but I don't want to get cocky. I watched the New England Patriots blow an 18-point lead in the NFL playoffs and I'm a life-long Boston Red Sox fan. Do a little research and you'll understand what that means. (It means I've lost a lot of bets!!!)

I hope that you are picking an appropriate avatar for our erstwhile friend.

Nothing in your bet said that he can't go underground while wearing the red, white, and blue.


You win in my book- even if I was hoping to not have to see all your TR coffee cups.

I don't rate a coffee cup. Why not??? I mention TR in high level security meetings. I try to support the cause along with supporting my socks and ribbons. Why don't I rate?????

I think I'll go with the portrait of GWB with the American flag in the background

Can I PLEASE have another week????

Late homework is as good as no homework.



I'm not a party to this bet, but I can still spout off about it, right?

Okay bring on your worst ....

I do a mean Stars&Stripes - hendrix-esque of course - on a combination wood-saw/Kazoo act (that had 'em in the aisles at the local no-talent quest). Can I do that instead?

Um someone will have to provide tech tips to make this happen. As referred to many times, do not mistake me for someone who knows what goes on on these confounded contraptions.

I mean, this is like submitting a government tender, isn't it?

US Pacific Time and all (I mean, I'll pass on Hawaii. That's a fair concession!).

caniberichnowplease, I'd consider the extension if you hadn't called me "Miss", but now I'm offended. IF this goes my way, then the best way to create a customized avatar (best way that I've found, anyway) is to create an account at photobucket.com and store the picture in your account profile. For each file stored, a URL is listed and you can modify your TR profile to reference that URL for your avatar.

It looks like this thread still has legs, so maybe I'm the one who should start sweating.

Absolutely, for someone's who's not a party to the wager, you sure are posting a lot. Please keep your damn opinions to yourself. And tell Deepsand to do the same! (at least until 15-Feb )

I won't speak for deepsand or try to convince him not to post, just so you can win a bet. But, for my part, I didn't intend to post so many replies, until I noticed that this troll "Sven" was just 2Bad4AbuWhoEtcAdNauseum, then I had to dump some gasoline on the little pile of flame bait. At least, I thought it was gasoline. But here it is almost 11 on Monday, and no new posts. Maybe I dumped on him too much?

I hope you didn't take my response wrong. I want to assure you that I didn't mean for you to take my admonition seriously. Post at will and let the chips fall where they may. I'm man enough to pay off my wagers.

(Deepsand, too!)

Edit: 85 posts late last week. 160+ now. It still has legs!!

"I hope you didn't take my response wrong. I want to assure you that I didn't mean for you to take my admonition seriously."

Much like when Tigger walked the 3-day, I think it would be nice if all TR members used this as their avatar for the next two weeks. Whaddya say?

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m193/DMambo/GWB.jpg

You must be kidding, never in my life I will get that one up as my Avitar, Bush II.
Really you must be kidding.

Rob

edited for format

Mostly because I will willingly take part in anything not grudge related. How about we all take your coffee cups. The American Flag. A signpost of Republicanism.

I will let go of my pink ribbon for your win. Can we find something that we can all get behind?

Want some pink ribbons?

Training starts in 3 weeks- but only 3 miles a day... at first. I am still waiting for a surgery date for the rest of the work to be done.

How about the Space Shuttle?

when I work the technology which I will try at home tonight.

f'ckin freaky ID christians - when you don't want them they are everywhere and when you need them they go into hybernation.

Oh by the way did I tell you I just love GWB?

... you know, the C-in-C kind of look to really push the 3-dimensional experience that is GWB?

I mean, that photo's cute, in a howdie-doodie kind of way.

my time Thurs 15th 3:40pm.

That makes the same time, 1st Mar (my time) "back to bland" day.

In my original post taking your wager, I had indicated that 200 posts would be the tipping point. Within a minute or two, I decided that 300 would be safer and still would be well under your estimate. When the time limit was reached, there were about 196 posts, so I would have been safe, but if it were that close, then a few "additional" responses could have put it over the top without raising suspicion.

If the 200 post mark had been reached by the cutoff, I would have let you off the hook.

In any case, it's been nice doing business with you.

Gotcha.

Someone please show me a formula for calculating randomness. I do not want approximations or good estimates. If randomness is a natural phenomenon, show me the math that orders random action.

Random in evolution is not the mathematical abstraction which as you rightly say does not exist in the real universe as far as we understand any of it. But the laymans term of probabilistic.

So evolution is a throw of the dice and a the chance of you coming up six is not random in the real world but the sum of so many factors it approaches the abstraction random mathematically.

In fact there is a good argument that evolution is less random than dice, as some eventualties are as likely as one di coming up a 113.

Probabilistic outcomes are ordered and not random. According computer scientist Charles Knuth, randomness is not compatible with the order of the universe. However, there are efforts to approximate randomness but the very nature of randomness is that it cannot be ordered.

If there were probablistic outcomes that life could spark from inert materials then answer why is that process and its order not evident today? Why do we write Horror stories about the process like Frankenstein? What evolution is telling me is that human life is a naturally occuring Frankenstein.

How in Ahura Mazda's name can a probabilistic outcome be ordered? If it was ordered it would be deterministic.

As I said evolution is not random in the mathematical sense. The theory is effectively probabilistic but our only record of outcomes are the successes. Those were determined by environment which is another gigantic range range of factors.

Indeed environment must be a massive constraint otherwise the universe would be teeming with life.

If there is a creator, the only thing it could have done is create the conditions for life which is another circular argument because a deity must by definition be alive.

If you want to stick to reason and logic, then all you can say is the creator created evolution. I can't use evolution against that argument.

Just take it on the chin, like the popes had to from Copernicus and Galileo.

Frankenstein ('s monster) was an unnaturally occurring creation. Ms Shelley pre-dated Mr Darwin.

I wonder, if MrIdentityCrisis took that moist, steamy pile to the Discovery Institute, whether they would even give it a listen, or just toss him out on his head?

This entire claim of Evolution's reliance on his misunderstanding, or strategically incorrect semantic misstatement, of the meaning of the word "random" as it relates to Darwinism, is nothing better than a straw man argument. If he only had a brain!

Probabilistic outcomes are ordered because the system is able to be described or modelled mathematically though the exact outcome may be indeterminant, unknown, as it would occur statistically, hence probabilistic, in a volume or region of space. That volume or region of space would be bounded and the study of those boundaries are called boundary value problems. This indeterminance is part of Chaos Theory where systems are described as being perfectly ordered but indeterminant.

Determinant systems are commonly linear systems with a high degree of predictability. This is typical of Newtonian science.

Chaos Science and Newtonian science are distinctly different. In fact, Newtonian science applies to a small fraction of the natural. Some estimate the application of Newtonian science to the natural universe to be less than 10% of the systems. Chaos science applies to over 90% of the systems.

Thank you for corroborating my Frankenstein point about unnatural processes. Frankenstien was written in 1831 and Darwin evolution revolution began in 1838. They were closely couple it appears. Mary Shelley was attempting to re-animate life and Charles Darwin was attempting to evolve life. Both are Sci-fi horror thrillers. One from body parts and the other from monkey parts.

My Frankenstein analogy was pointing at irreducible complexity and the natural occurence of life becoming animated other than through copulation. Life simply does not spark in existence from inert materials naturally. There is no natural process for animating inert materials spontaneously. If a critical component of life is removed then returned later, life does not re-ignite even with the application of forces, heat, or energy. The notion of irreducible complexity destroys evolution theory.

Sven, how many people are in your head with you?

what are your thoughts on alien abductions, sasquatch and the bermuda triangle? how about the kennedy assasination.

seriously, you're really funny!! and i could use some comedy in my day ...

To me, having evolved from lower primates, and before that from dog-like creatures, and before that from some sort of rodent, and before that from something simpler than an amoeba, and before that perhaps from something like the prions responsible for Creutzfeld-Jakob Syndrome, inspires optimism in me. Look how far we've come already! How much more might we improve in the eons ahead, considering all the room for improvement in the Universe!

and amen

Evolution seems counter to Entropy, a known natural process. The whole universe is disassociating, it is breaking up or de-evolving.

What you are telling me is that humans are becoming something more when everything around us is essentially aging and falling apart? There will come a time when the universe cannot support life - what then?

The hope for humans is not in this universe. In fact, humans are told to not place faith in the universe. Its time will come to pass. ECC 3 & Rev 21

I was surprised by what I learned about Entropy in college physics. It was far more interesting than what I had learned in high school science about Entropy. Accordingly, it isn't easily summarized during my afternoon coffee break. You'll have to wait until at least the weekend.

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics
with particular note to that section within the second cited link that reads

"Complex systems

It is occasionally claimed that the second law is incompatible with autonomous self-organisation, or even the coming into existence of complex systems. The entry self-organisation explains how this claim is a misconception.

In fact, as hot systems cool down in accordance with the second law, it is not unusual for them to undergo spontaneous symmetry breaking, i.e. for structure to spontaneously appear as the temperature drops below a critical threshold. Complex structures, such as B?nard cells, also spontaneously appear where there is a steady flow of energy from a high temperature input source to a low temperature external sink. It is conjectured that such systems tend to evolve into complex, structured, critically unstable "edge of chaos" arrangements, which very nearly maximise the rate of energy degradation (the rate of entropy production).[6]"