Discussion on:

10 things you'll miss when you upgrade to Vista (and how to get some of them back)

Are some of these items on your own list of features you miss in Windows Vista? What else do you wish you had back--and how are you dealing with those shortcomings?

The Image Toolbar in IE 6- I seem to save a lot of jpegs whilst browsing and it was a lot quicker than Right-Click Save As.

I also don't like that I can't resize the Address Bar in IE7. I used to be able to resize it and squeeze in a small toolbar next to it (like SnagIT) but the only way to add a 1.5" toolbar is to add it vertically, reducing viewing space.

XP had a great feature that allowed almost one-click publish the directory or a picture to the web. The default was to MSN only, but third-party software (e.g., Gallery 2) had plug-ins for it as well. I hope next service pack will resurrect it!

First off, good job on the article. Big help. Most importantly, we need to stop whining about the interface changes. If we linger in the "way it used to be" world, nothing progresses. The Ribbon in Office 2007 is a perfect example. You'll hate it the first three days, then all of a sudden you realize how SMART the thing is laid out. So, Vista has things removed now. Big whoop. You can't learn a newer, WAY slicker interface?

Keep whining, and it'll just continue to vindicate Apple's ads making PC users appear to be dweebs. Tear into Vista and make it happen!

I personally think the interface changes in Vista is plain dumb. Microsoft needs to get in their heads that simple and secure is what is best. Not everyone out there wants change and not every one out there is a propeller head.

While I am a computer professonal and I will figure out how use and support the new OS, I do not think it is worth the time and effort to roll it out.

So, this is what we waited for for 5 years, and cost 6 Billion Dollars to create. You gotta be kidding!!! The user access control is the most annoying thing I have ever seen. It assumes we are SO STUPID we can't even "start" some apps. without the annoying popup it gives you. Then go turn it off, and some apps. will not even run properly (BTW these are apps. that are Vista capable!!!). Try changing a file association. Used to be real easy in XP: go in Windows Explorer to Tools, Folder Options, File Types, and you could change file associations for just about anything quickly & easily. Not in Vista, that feature is GONE????

The new Defrag is absolutely worthless, as you have no idea on its progress, so you do not know how long it is going to take to complete??? Thank God for after market products like Diskeeper 2007.

Brand New Windows Vista Laptop, on Feb 1st, needed 11 Windows Vista Updates!!!! Give me a Break.

In XP the task scheduler was extremely easy to use. Not anymore!!!
Heck what the hell is all the stuff listed in there anyway. I have been in the computer business in corp America for over 30 Years, and have owned my own business for over 10 years. I truly feel sorry for P/C users going from XP to this, as it will be very confusing, and in the corp arena definitely require re-training the users at the desktop
level.

It will be a cold day in Hell, before I switch from XP Pro to this crap!!!

Linux is the future, and hopefully it will eventually be the un-doing of M$.

I have been a Windows user since I was 4 years old (yeah ok, I'm only 21). I have often defended Microsoft and their products. However, I think Windows Vista will be the last straw that pushes me over to Linux.

I currently run XP, program in .Net, and use SQL Server 2005 exclusively for databases. As Vista becomes more popular and XP is supported less and less, I will slowly be switching over my computing habits to Linux and other Microsoft Alternatives. If I ever fulfill my dream of starting my own development company (within the next 12 months I hope!!) it will be an all-linux shop.

So far there are only 2 good things I have to say about Microsofts new round of products:
1. Excel 2007 works very well with (SQL Server 2005) OLAP cubes.
2. Office 2007 uses an XML format that Microsoft is making publicly available (so it will be easy for OpenOffice to read/write the new format.

There's my 2 cents.

linux is more and more popular,but it's not easy for children& the ages.it's a good suggestion for the developer of linux to hear what u have said.wish you career success.

In this case, "not easier for children" will be a good thing!
If they can't screw stuff up without a root password
But back on topic, I have also noticed most of these annoyances, & most of them, to me, are just that: annoyances. The real problem, as has been stated before, will be for the average, inept users out there. The ones that think that they don't have a certain program if it's not on the desktop o_O
(you would not believe the number of people I have run into that use winXP, but have never used the Start Menu )

After fiddling with it for awhile I give up. Something simple as loading a driver for my video card turned into days of agravation. Wonkly command line code, getting it into the right folder and so forth. I never got it to work. That should be computer 101 right? run filename.exe right?

It was much worse in the past though video drivers are still an area that Linux based OS (BSD et all non-win32/osX that is) should be commended on since all the work is generally through reverse engineering. Outside of video and wifi, I've not seen any issues in a long time and those two are getting better too. I flopped back and forth for years happily but I love exploring different OS rather than simply running things on top of a specific platform.

Anyhow, play with some liveCD to see what distro works best for you if your really interested. I'm partial to Mandriva which will give you a very nice "control panel" in the GUI. I run the livdCD seamlessly on my Thinkpad T60 including ATI video and the wifi. And not a single thing I've had to do by command prompt (except by loving choice of course). You might also try Kubuntu and Ubuntu distrobutions on liveCD.. PCLinuxOS seems a favourite of others also.

The key is to realize that Linux is the kernel not a single OS. Linux based OS are many different distrobutions made from the same lego pieces; each distrobution has different values and goals resulting in very differetn but similar operating systems.

If video is your biggest issue then I'd hazzard a guess that it's Games your realy after and in that regard; keep a windows partition to run the latest games and a Linux distro dual boot for everything else.

- The Windows boot can be tuned for your specific games instead of all generall tasks you through at it.

- The Linux boot can be used for everything it does well and doesn't really need the 3D support unless you just can't possibly live without eye-candy adding no additional function to your desktop.

In my case I have the following outstanding functions but all else has been replaced under my Mandriva boot:

- Games.. Windowes has lesser broken ATI drivers and first pick of the native game support.

- Syncing PalmOS too Outlook too Cellphone.. discontinued for the moment since the motorola V3 cell sync software sucks badly.

- Editing office files from years of Windows at home and Windows at work.. now done under a VM guest Windows running windowed on the Mandriva host OS thanks to VMware.

- Last, supporting IE so I can admin my dd-wrt router since, for some ungodly reason, the dd-wrt developers build the web interface to only support IE (that may change in later v24 release candidates)...This is again done exlusively under the win32 VM.

Take your time and replace Windows functions with Linux functions as you get comfortable. If your changing to be cool like everyone else then don't.. if your interested in exploring a different OS or moving to a Linux based OS for your own reasons then persevere; there's no loss, even if it's only learning about how a computer actually works.

I agree 100%, there are many users that do not want to learn a new OS.

It would be nice to have a "Classic View"
button in vista that would let the average PC user use there new PC with Vista, but without all the advance features or menus.

Just my $0.02

I have ignored this persistent error for months now but I can do so no longer. It is as common and as irritating as "your a mron" instead of "you're a moron". I refer, of course, to the incorrect use of "here here" instead of the correct "hear hear". Think about what the expression means for a moment and err no more. Thanks.

You "have ignored this persistent error for months now but I can do so no longer"...

Do you get sleepless nights over the poor use of grammar?

The changes are initially irritating and there will always be resistance to change from those who insist on doing things the same old way. Some of the new features, like the new filtering and organising features of Explorer may go unnoticed initially. The trick is, to accept the changes, get used to new ways of working, and THEN see if overall you are more or less productive. The time for change over, in my experience, is very brief in real terms.
I am reminded, back in the days of the introduction of Windows 95, that I had a student who insisted on reloading the File Manager that he was so familiar with in Windows 3.1. I had to virtually tie him down, deleting File Manager, to get him to become productive with Explorer.

You had to "virtually tie him down, deleting File Manager, to get him to become productive with Explorer." If a person does not wish to change, then that decision lies solely with the person not desiring to change. Change has to come from within the person. I oft remember this maxim, 'a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.' Many times, I would go against the flow, sit, when people stood, stand when people stood...and when I was forced to comply, inside I was still doing the opposite.

The most you can hope to do in life, is to show the horse the water, if the horse chooses not to drink, then so be it. Brush the dust from your sandals, and move on.

People change at their pace at there hearts desire and not because they are 'forced'.

"I had to virtually tie him down, deleting File Manager, to get him to become productive with Explorer."

What a joke this is!

I'd much rather have Winfile.exe (Win3.1 version) than the joke that explorer is! With Winfile, I could view more than one directory/folder at a time(I regularly view 2-4 directories at once, passing files between them). With explorer, in order to do the same thing, I must open a NEW Copy for each. Each copy of explorer that gets open, slows the system just a little more.

The only down side (that I found)to Winfile.exe, was the 8.3 file name restriction.

That being said, Which way is more productive?

I would hazard a guess to say that the best way a person is more productive is by using what they are comfy using rather than going through the learning curvem however short or long that may be.

If I came into work and they had put a unix workstation on my desk, telling me its now company standard, then it would be my standard to resign. Not due to unix but due to the attitude of the company. Dont get me wrong I am looking at linux (I know its not unix, but it is a flavour) to use instead of M$ but at my pace.

Too bad Microsoft couldn't come up with an OS upgrade which featured was Secure, Fast and Stable instead of just flashy. We won't be installing this at my organization until there's no avoiding it.

And Microsoft will not rest until there's no avoiding it

Ah, nevermind...

...thus the reason for Microsoft sucking NOVELL into their current fiasco with SUSE Linux and making the statement that MS wouldn't sue any of SUSE users for patent infringment! SCO lost all it's credibility as the front for MS so now they have to figure out a way to do their dirty work themselves!

I have no problems with change.
Change that attempts to improve is good.
Change just for change's sake is bad.
Change that costs more and reduces functionality is just plain wrong.

people will find and use it. Don't make power users spend untold hours getting their systems back to a state they are comfortable with. Don't make computer novices feel lost. Of course, with that "compelling" philosophy, Microsoft would have had a hard time selling anything over the years.

I'd bet the main consideration Microsoft has for many of its changes are to drive recertification income and how-to books. They don't make as much money if people pass the tests the first time, and they are harder to pass if you have to know multiple operating systems.

I don't need an address bar (IE7) that takes up most of a toolbar. I know how to scroll if I need to. I also don't need a search box that duplicates my Google toolbar search. Give me the option to turn it off and put something useful there.

While it COULD have been a great step forward, it was only a little jump. The most irriating thing is that you have to spend tons of time customizing your ribbon because out of the box it just isn't usable.

Plus, other than the ribbon, Office2k7 offers nothing over Office2k3.

The interface in Vista is a step back, not slick...
http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=windows&articleId=9011819&taxonomyId=125

The biggest problem is that Vista is bloated and a serious resource hog. Across the board apps and games run SLOWER in Vista than in XP.

Sure, the DirectX10 argument will come up, but honestly, we won't know until we see it...

I agree about that point (but I haven't really used the "final" Vista)

While running RC2 on my laptop (with 1GB RAM and a Turion64 2GHz processor) I thought it ran just as fast as XP did, however, when I ran Eclipse, jEdit, MySQL, Apache, Apache Tomcat etc. I noticed things starting to slow down.
There were no real lockups or crashes, but it was considerably slower than when running XP.

I put it down to beta-syndrome and presumed that things would chug along nicely once Vista was properly released.

It seems that 1GB is not enough - perhaps you could do with 1.5 or even 2GB RAM.

Surely MS should never have recommended 1GB system memory for Ultimate...

You're so right, my friend. Enough said.

Yeah, well some things may be easier to access now, but some things have gotten more tucked away behind interfaces and windows and cr*p that Vista's change really doesn't help me as an end user, but instead obscures what I need to find to get things done!

At least OSX doesn't change the basics of their UI every OS revision.

Yeah, but the real question is: can you still switch the entire interface to "Windows classic." I have one computer that I keep in Windows XP interface so I know what customers are talking about when they call and tell me they clicked on such and such and then clicked on such and such. All of my other computers (I have three at my main workstation that I run continuously) I have in "Windows Classic" Mode. Don't tell me that "Windows Classic" is now Windows XP standard interface. Not that I'll use it until I absolutely have to, but please tell me Vista has a "Windows classic" that puts me back to the good old W95/NT4 interface.

In Microsoft's need to sell new operating system versions, they tend to have an "if it ain't broke, fix it [so the customer will think it was broke and run out to buy the new o/s]" kind of mentality. One of Microsoft's problems is that instead of building upon things that work, they need to make a bunch of changes that were not really necessary so that the new o/s looks "new". In the process a lot of the baby goes out with the bath water, as your article points out.

Amen, brother (or sister). Amen.

Reminds me of switching from Win 3.11 to Win 95. I made a "File manager" shortcut on my desktop because I didn't like explorers new interface. Ultimately I of course realized how much better Explorer was and switched. It'll just take time to see the good in all the changes.

It shouldn't, it should just be obvious, but it will take the 3rd. party vendors with their "crapletts" to make VISTA work the way a lot of people feel it should have at the start! We all know what happens to those companies then; MS makes a deal with them, gobbles them up, or takes their idea and runs them out of business. Result, more innovative companies bite the dust.

While a couple of these issues may be slightly inconveniwent at first or requrie a few extra seconds to learn a new technique, the changes noted are not exactly things that woul dhave me pining for my old OS.

No I don't use Vista, but i played with it for a bit and found it to be no big deal, some eye canfy packed into a nother unresourceful OS that we will watch a hundred security fixes and updates for in a efw months time.

It's like buying a new model of a car.....WHY?

An older model, even one that's been in production just a few years, is generally more reliable, a far better value for money and a more solid investment.

I do so love making Bill richer every time a new Windows version comes out. Makes me feel like I'm giving something back to the Windows community. I am so impressed with the grandiose size of this O/S, it obviously must have been paid for by line-of-code rather than that annoying clean, tight, compact code we used to have to write. I think they ought to rename it from Windows to Gasbag.

The first payroll program I wrote was on a Wang 600 programmable calculator in 1973 (the term microcomputer had not yet been invented). The machine had cassette data storage standard and optional floppy disk and hard disk. Printed output was to a Selectric typewriter and/or a calculator tape.

I also wrote and supported programs to car dealers that printed sales contracts for bank loans.

Total memory was 2k bytes. The 16 data registers used about 104 bytes leaving 1920 bytes for any programs. Of course, we used machine code and squeezed out any superflous code.

I've been using Vista on a spare machine since the first Beta. And, I've noticed with RC1 and RC2 that Vista ran much better. I also noticed that Microsoft opened up their beta program to a much wider audience and they seemed to have listend to the "complaints" from the beta users. Yes, I agree that Microsoft is charging WAY WAY too much for Vista. And I hate the stupid upgrade issues that are going on. But things change, times change and as IT people we need to be ready to change with them.

I know that personally, I would not have a job without the innovations of Micrsoft Products. Because Microsoft keeps pushing the benchmarks on resources (hogging them), the CPU speeds Video Ram etc have all been made better. I'm not saying it's purely because of Microsoft, but because of them, there is a demand for faster better pcs. This pushes R&D to come up with better equipment to handle the software. Yes, I know, we think it should be the other way around, but it's not. And personally, I'm glad that computer hardware is progressing fast enough to keep up with the hardware changes.

Yea, there are things I'll miss (my beloved toolbars in MS Office), but I'm getting used to the "Ribbons". I like the grapics handling of the new system. Will I upgrade my workhorse computer now, nope. I'll wait until bug fixes and patches have come out first. Then I'll make the transition.

...if the OS hogs so much resources that you can't work any faster? The only things you see real improvements in speed wind up being older programs that are not designed for the higher clock speeds. Like trying to drag fill in Excel and the screen scrolls so fast you wind up playing yoyo going from the top of the file to the bottom and back. But try to do anything computer intensive, or multitasking, and you are faced with hangups, blank windows, etc. That is my experience with other Windows upgrades.

Who benefits from the need for better, faster, bigger resources or hardware? Where is this hardware made, that it provides more jobs to benefit the user? Where does the phone support come from, that provides work for the support personnel? Does anybody have answers to those questions that indicate a boost to the GDP for the US?

I had a programming job for two decades before Bill's experimental BASIC interpreter let him make so many people rich. IBM, Burroughs, CDC, GE, Univac, DEC, Farrington, Honeywell, and all the rest managed to keep the roofs over a lot of heads for a long time, and some still do. The complaints with MS seem to focus on bloated programs and their pricing and support policies. My own experience with MS Help service went sour when I suggested they fix a known distribution problem by making it available for download, and the response was that they didn't want to make the software available to people who hadn't paid for it. They completely disregarded the people who had paid for the service but didn't get it, and their profit was their main concern. With every bit of software I acquire, I look for an alternative source, and it will please me greatly when Linux becomes the office standard. Screw MicroSoft.

You may have other operating systems like the linux distrobutions and Mac but really does the average user know how to use these operating systems, god no. I think once setup and training done people will know but then why hasnt this been done. The same reason why microsoft didnt make that download available.

They are a business to and want to make money, they quite successfully do it. Although i dont use MS products and instead run linux operating systems doesnt mean that most people can do this. Lets be honest people have grown up with MS it wont change for a long time. Vista will become the new standard, just like XP did when it was released

If working at Bestbuy Geeksquad has proven anything -- no, people cannot properly use computers. Regardless of whether or not it's a Mac, FreeBSD, or a Linux box, or whatever, if people don't know how to use the machine, it doesn't matter.

I'd rather have someone working for me who had access to the bare essentials, and was able to communicate with the rest of the company, with a product which broke less frequently because people don't know how to operate the machine in the first place.

Sure, Unix based OS-makers are producers of rope -- and you can definitely hang yourself much easier with Unix, if you do the right thing. The catch is that with Unix you're stuck with a smaller sandbox, so the likelihood of fubar'ing a machine is much lower, and it's much simpler to script common actions to make sure the machine is secure and up to date.

Why if you dont reqiure VISTA can you NOT say to the supplier/retailer I want XP PRO.

SORRY MS you have really screwed up this time.

My PICK VISTA another MS ME.

I will not be going the VISTA or OFFICE 2007 way, REASON as below.....

1) The learning curve form my staff to great and we want results from our workers and NOT sitting trying to work our HOW TO DO???.
2) The COST of this bloat ware too high.
3) We have too many computers that are not that old 12 months that will require hardware upgrades before we can get to our current XP PRO level.

NOT FOR US MR GATES.

Change is something that we all have problems with, but in the end, it all works out. I appreciate the tips on how to get the old look and feel of XP with Vista. I haven't worked with Vista too much yet, but I know that I will be in the not too distant future. Thanks for the tips. Very well done.

Most of the ten things on this list are really pretty petty complaints, there isn't one thing on it I miss. I've been running Vista for a few months, and yes, it took a minute to get used to things.
However, anybody remember how much change there was in XP? How many people are still changing the view in the XP control panel, or the start menu, to look like 2K. Half the people I know use the Back button and not the Up button. I guarantee if they hadn't made a bunch of major changes, people would be screaming that they hadn't made any major changes.
There were some major adjustments in moving to XP, and there will be adjustments when moving to Vista. As a network admin, it's my job to be able to deal with these adjustments, which is why I've been working with it daily for months, so I can be ready for the questions. Get the OS, get it set up, play with it, then wipe it and set it up again. Get used to it, and get on with it.

Glad to see someone else championing PowerDesk. Its a great program. PowerDesk Pro v6 loads and works fine in Vista -- just that during the install uncheck the box that says to use PowerDesk for Opening Explorer and IE.

Yes it is a great program! I have been using it since the beginning and have bought numerous copies to use on our equipment. The average user can work just fine without the Pro version, they just won't want to once they get it! You are right about unchecking the box for using to open Explorer and IE, the first time I did that by accident it seemed like it took forever to figure out what I had done

Sheesh,
And I thought I was the only person who liked the PD Pro program!

I wonder if Vistas preview pain has ability to view as many file types as PD6?

I found out some very interesting info about the company that made PD6 and its rival Explorer 6.

I've been using it forever as well. There are *only* two things I would wish for if it were ever updated:

1. Drive icons above BOTH panes instead of only one. I use dual, horizontal panes.

2. Lockable tabs for quick access to favorite folders.

I have purchased Powerdesk Pro v 6.0.2.3. There is an update patch to version 6.0.4.2 but this won't run in Vista. I get this error: No Valid Secquence could be found for the set of patches
Can someone tell me how to patch to the latest version in Vista? Thanks