Discussion on:

10 things you'll miss when you upgrade to Vista (and how to get some of them back)

Are some of these items on your own list of features you miss in Windows Vista? What else do you wish you had back--and how are you dealing with those shortcomings?

The Image Toolbar in IE 6- I seem to save a lot of jpegs whilst browsing and it was a lot quicker than Right-Click Save As.

I also don't like that I can't resize the Address Bar in IE7. I used to be able to resize it and squeeze in a small toolbar next to it (like SnagIT) but the only way to add a 1.5" toolbar is to add it vertically, reducing viewing space.

XP had a great feature that allowed almost one-click publish the directory or a picture to the web. The default was to MSN only, but third-party software (e.g., Gallery 2) had plug-ins for it as well. I hope next service pack will resurrect it!

First off, good job on the article. Big help. Most importantly, we need to stop whining about the interface changes. If we linger in the "way it used to be" world, nothing progresses. The Ribbon in Office 2007 is a perfect example. You'll hate it the first three days, then all of a sudden you realize how SMART the thing is laid out. So, Vista has things removed now. Big whoop. You can't learn a newer, WAY slicker interface?

Keep whining, and it'll just continue to vindicate Apple's ads making PC users appear to be dweebs. Tear into Vista and make it happen!

I personally think the interface changes in Vista is plain dumb. Microsoft needs to get in their heads that simple and secure is what is best. Not everyone out there wants change and not every one out there is a propeller head.

While I am a computer professonal and I will figure out how use and support the new OS, I do not think it is worth the time and effort to roll it out.

So, this is what we waited for for 5 years, and cost 6 Billion Dollars to create. You gotta be kidding!!! The user access control is the most annoying thing I have ever seen. It assumes we are SO STUPID we can't even "start" some apps. without the annoying popup it gives you. Then go turn it off, and some apps. will not even run properly (BTW these are apps. that are Vista capable!!!). Try changing a file association. Used to be real easy in XP: go in Windows Explorer to Tools, Folder Options, File Types, and you could change file associations for just about anything quickly & easily. Not in Vista, that feature is GONE????

The new Defrag is absolutely worthless, as you have no idea on its progress, so you do not know how long it is going to take to complete??? Thank God for after market products like Diskeeper 2007.

Brand New Windows Vista Laptop, on Feb 1st, needed 11 Windows Vista Updates!!!! Give me a Break.

In XP the task scheduler was extremely easy to use. Not anymore!!!
Heck what the hell is all the stuff listed in there anyway. I have been in the computer business in corp America for over 30 Years, and have owned my own business for over 10 years. I truly feel sorry for P/C users going from XP to this, as it will be very confusing, and in the corp arena definitely require re-training the users at the desktop
level.

It will be a cold day in Hell, before I switch from XP Pro to this crap!!!

Linux is the future, and hopefully it will eventually be the un-doing of M$.

I have been a Windows user since I was 4 years old (yeah ok, I'm only 21). I have often defended Microsoft and their products. However, I think Windows Vista will be the last straw that pushes me over to Linux.

I currently run XP, program in .Net, and use SQL Server 2005 exclusively for databases. As Vista becomes more popular and XP is supported less and less, I will slowly be switching over my computing habits to Linux and other Microsoft Alternatives. If I ever fulfill my dream of starting my own development company (within the next 12 months I hope!!) it will be an all-linux shop.

So far there are only 2 good things I have to say about Microsofts new round of products:
1. Excel 2007 works very well with (SQL Server 2005) OLAP cubes.
2. Office 2007 uses an XML format that Microsoft is making publicly available (so it will be easy for OpenOffice to read/write the new format.

There's my 2 cents.

linux is more and more popular,but it's not easy for children& the ages.it's a good suggestion for the developer of linux to hear what u have said.wish you career success.

In this case, "not easier for children" will be a good thing!
If they can't screw stuff up without a root password
But back on topic, I have also noticed most of these annoyances, & most of them, to me, are just that: annoyances. The real problem, as has been stated before, will be for the average, inept users out there. The ones that think that they don't have a certain program if it's not on the desktop o_O
(you would not believe the number of people I have run into that use winXP, but have never used the Start Menu )

After fiddling with it for awhile I give up. Something simple as loading a driver for my video card turned into days of agravation. Wonkly command line code, getting it into the right folder and so forth. I never got it to work. That should be computer 101 right? run filename.exe right?

It was much worse in the past though video drivers are still an area that Linux based OS (BSD et all non-win32/osX that is) should be commended on since all the work is generally through reverse engineering. Outside of video and wifi, I've not seen any issues in a long time and those two are getting better too. I flopped back and forth for years happily but I love exploring different OS rather than simply running things on top of a specific platform.

Anyhow, play with some liveCD to see what distro works best for you if your really interested. I'm partial to Mandriva which will give you a very nice "control panel" in the GUI. I run the livdCD seamlessly on my Thinkpad T60 including ATI video and the wifi. And not a single thing I've had to do by command prompt (except by loving choice of course). You might also try Kubuntu and Ubuntu distrobutions on liveCD.. PCLinuxOS seems a favourite of others also.

The key is to realize that Linux is the kernel not a single OS. Linux based OS are many different distrobutions made from the same lego pieces; each distrobution has different values and goals resulting in very differetn but similar operating systems.

If video is your biggest issue then I'd hazzard a guess that it's Games your realy after and in that regard; keep a windows partition to run the latest games and a Linux distro dual boot for everything else.

- The Windows boot can be tuned for your specific games instead of all generall tasks you through at it.

- The Linux boot can be used for everything it does well and doesn't really need the 3D support unless you just can't possibly live without eye-candy adding no additional function to your desktop.

In my case I have the following outstanding functions but all else has been replaced under my Mandriva boot:

- Games.. Windowes has lesser broken ATI drivers and first pick of the native game support.

- Syncing PalmOS too Outlook too Cellphone.. discontinued for the moment since the motorola V3 cell sync software sucks badly.

- Editing office files from years of Windows at home and Windows at work.. now done under a VM guest Windows running windowed on the Mandriva host OS thanks to VMware.

- Last, supporting IE so I can admin my dd-wrt router since, for some ungodly reason, the dd-wrt developers build the web interface to only support IE (that may change in later v24 release candidates)...This is again done exlusively under the win32 VM.

Take your time and replace Windows functions with Linux functions as you get comfortable. If your changing to be cool like everyone else then don't.. if your interested in exploring a different OS or moving to a Linux based OS for your own reasons then persevere; there's no loss, even if it's only learning about how a computer actually works.

I agree 100%, there are many users that do not want to learn a new OS.

It would be nice to have a "Classic View"
button in vista that would let the average PC user use there new PC with Vista, but without all the advance features or menus.

Just my $0.02

I have ignored this persistent error for months now but I can do so no longer. It is as common and as irritating as "your a mron" instead of "you're a moron". I refer, of course, to the incorrect use of "here here" instead of the correct "hear hear". Think about what the expression means for a moment and err no more. Thanks.

You "have ignored this persistent error for months now but I can do so no longer"...

Do you get sleepless nights over the poor use of grammar?

The changes are initially irritating and there will always be resistance to change from those who insist on doing things the same old way. Some of the new features, like the new filtering and organising features of Explorer may go unnoticed initially. The trick is, to accept the changes, get used to new ways of working, and THEN see if overall you are more or less productive. The time for change over, in my experience, is very brief in real terms.
I am reminded, back in the days of the introduction of Windows 95, that I had a student who insisted on reloading the File Manager that he was so familiar with in Windows 3.1. I had to virtually tie him down, deleting File Manager, to get him to become productive with Explorer.

You had to "virtually tie him down, deleting File Manager, to get him to become productive with Explorer." If a person does not wish to change, then that decision lies solely with the person not desiring to change. Change has to come from within the person. I oft remember this maxim, 'a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.' Many times, I would go against the flow, sit, when people stood, stand when people stood...and when I was forced to comply, inside I was still doing the opposite.

The most you can hope to do in life, is to show the horse the water, if the horse chooses not to drink, then so be it. Brush the dust from your sandals, and move on.

People change at their pace at there hearts desire and not because they are 'forced'.

"I had to virtually tie him down, deleting File Manager, to get him to become productive with Explorer."

What a joke this is!

I'd much rather have Winfile.exe (Win3.1 version) than the joke that explorer is! With Winfile, I could view more than one directory/folder at a time(I regularly view 2-4 directories at once, passing files between them). With explorer, in order to do the same thing, I must open a NEW Copy for each. Each copy of explorer that gets open, slows the system just a little more.

The only down side (that I found)to Winfile.exe, was the 8.3 file name restriction.

That being said, Which way is more productive?

I would hazard a guess to say that the best way a person is more productive is by using what they are comfy using rather than going through the learning curvem however short or long that may be.

If I came into work and they had put a unix workstation on my desk, telling me its now company standard, then it would be my standard to resign. Not due to unix but due to the attitude of the company. Dont get me wrong I am looking at linux (I know its not unix, but it is a flavour) to use instead of M$ but at my pace.

Too bad Microsoft couldn't come up with an OS upgrade which featured was Secure, Fast and Stable instead of just flashy. We won't be installing this at my organization until there's no avoiding it.

And Microsoft will not rest until there's no avoiding it

Ah, nevermind...

...thus the reason for Microsoft sucking NOVELL into their current fiasco with SUSE Linux and making the statement that MS wouldn't sue any of SUSE users for patent infringment! SCO lost all it's credibility as the front for MS so now they have to figure out a way to do their dirty work themselves!

I have no problems with change.
Change that attempts to improve is good.
Change just for change's sake is bad.
Change that costs more and reduces functionality is just plain wrong.

people will find and use it. Don't make power users spend untold hours getting their systems back to a state they are comfortable with. Don't make computer novices feel lost. Of course, with that "compelling" philosophy, Microsoft would have had a hard time selling anything over the years.

I'd bet the main consideration Microsoft has for many of its changes are to drive recertification income and how-to books. They don't make as much money if people pass the tests the first time, and they are harder to pass if you have to know multiple operating systems.

I don't need an address bar (IE7) that takes up most of a toolbar. I know how to scroll if I need to. I also don't need a search box that duplicates my Google toolbar search. Give me the option to turn it off and put something useful there.

While it COULD have been a great step forward, it was only a little jump. The most irriating thing is that you have to spend tons of time customizing your ribbon because out of the box it just isn't usable.

Plus, other than the ribbon, Office2k7 offers nothing over Office2k3.

The interface in Vista is a step back, not slick...
http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=windows&articleId=9011819&taxonomyId=125

The biggest problem is that Vista is bloated and a serious resource hog. Across the board apps and games run SLOWER in Vista than in XP.

Sure, the DirectX10 argument will come up, but honestly, we won't know until we see it...

I agree about that point (but I haven't really used the "final" Vista)

While running RC2 on my laptop (with 1GB RAM and a Turion64 2GHz processor) I thought it ran just as fast as XP did, however, when I ran Eclipse, jEdit, MySQL, Apache, Apache Tomcat etc. I noticed things starting to slow down.
There were no real lockups or crashes, but it was considerably slower than when running XP.

I put it down to beta-syndrome and presumed that things would chug along nicely once Vista was properly released.

It seems that 1GB is not enough - perhaps you could do with 1.5 or even 2GB RAM.

Surely MS should never have recommended 1GB system memory for Ultimate...

You're so right, my friend. Enough said.

Yeah, well some things may be easier to access now, but some things have gotten more tucked away behind interfaces and windows and cr*p that Vista's change really doesn't help me as an end user, but instead obscures what I need to find to get things done!

At least OSX doesn't change the basics of their UI every OS revision.

Yeah, but the real question is: can you still switch the entire interface to "Windows classic." I have one computer that I keep in Windows XP interface so I know what customers are talking about when they call and tell me they clicked on such and such and then clicked on such and such. All of my other computers (I have three at my main workstation that I run continuously) I have in "Windows Classic" Mode. Don't tell me that "Windows Classic" is now Windows XP standard interface. Not that I'll use it until I absolutely have to, but please tell me Vista has a "Windows classic" that puts me back to the good old W95/NT4 interface.

In Microsoft's need to sell new operating system versions, they tend to have an "if it ain't broke, fix it [so the customer will think it was broke and run out to buy the new o/s]" kind of mentality. One of Microsoft's problems is that instead of building upon things that work, they need to make a bunch of changes that were not really necessary so that the new o/s looks "new". In the process a lot of the baby goes out with the bath water, as your article points out.

Amen, brother (or sister). Amen.

Reminds me of switching from Win 3.11 to Win 95. I made a "File manager" shortcut on my desktop because I didn't like explorers new interface. Ultimately I of course realized how much better Explorer was and switched. It'll just take time to see the good in all the changes.

It shouldn't, it should just be obvious, but it will take the 3rd. party vendors with their "crapletts" to make VISTA work the way a lot of people feel it should have at the start! We all know what happens to those companies then; MS makes a deal with them, gobbles them up, or takes their idea and runs them out of business. Result, more innovative companies bite the dust.

While a couple of these issues may be slightly inconveniwent at first or requrie a few extra seconds to learn a new technique, the changes noted are not exactly things that woul dhave me pining for my old OS.

No I don't use Vista, but i played with it for a bit and found it to be no big deal, some eye canfy packed into a nother unresourceful OS that we will watch a hundred security fixes and updates for in a efw months time.

It's like buying a new model of a car.....WHY?

An older model, even one that's been in production just a few years, is generally more reliable, a far better value for money and a more solid investment.

I do so love making Bill richer every time a new Windows version comes out. Makes me feel like I'm giving something back to the Windows community. I am so impressed with the grandiose size of this O/S, it obviously must have been paid for by line-of-code rather than that annoying clean, tight, compact code we used to have to write. I think they ought to rename it from Windows to Gasbag.

The first payroll program I wrote was on a Wang 600 programmable calculator in 1973 (the term microcomputer had not yet been invented). The machine had cassette data storage standard and optional floppy disk and hard disk. Printed output was to a Selectric typewriter and/or a calculator tape.

I also wrote and supported programs to car dealers that printed sales contracts for bank loans.

Total memory was 2k bytes. The 16 data registers used about 104 bytes leaving 1920 bytes for any programs. Of course, we used machine code and squeezed out any superflous code.

I've been using Vista on a spare machine since the first Beta. And, I've noticed with RC1 and RC2 that Vista ran much better. I also noticed that Microsoft opened up their beta program to a much wider audience and they seemed to have listend to the "complaints" from the beta users. Yes, I agree that Microsoft is charging WAY WAY too much for Vista. And I hate the stupid upgrade issues that are going on. But things change, times change and as IT people we need to be ready to change with them.

I know that personally, I would not have a job without the innovations of Micrsoft Products. Because Microsoft keeps pushing the benchmarks on resources (hogging them), the CPU speeds Video Ram etc have all been made better. I'm not saying it's purely because of Microsoft, but because of them, there is a demand for faster better pcs. This pushes R&D to come up with better equipment to handle the software. Yes, I know, we think it should be the other way around, but it's not. And personally, I'm glad that computer hardware is progressing fast enough to keep up with the hardware changes.

Yea, there are things I'll miss (my beloved toolbars in MS Office), but I'm getting used to the "Ribbons". I like the grapics handling of the new system. Will I upgrade my workhorse computer now, nope. I'll wait until bug fixes and patches have come out first. Then I'll make the transition.

...if the OS hogs so much resources that you can't work any faster? The only things you see real improvements in speed wind up being older programs that are not designed for the higher clock speeds. Like trying to drag fill in Excel and the screen scrolls so fast you wind up playing yoyo going from the top of the file to the bottom and back. But try to do anything computer intensive, or multitasking, and you are faced with hangups, blank windows, etc. That is my experience with other Windows upgrades.

Who benefits from the need for better, faster, bigger resources or hardware? Where is this hardware made, that it provides more jobs to benefit the user? Where does the phone support come from, that provides work for the support personnel? Does anybody have answers to those questions that indicate a boost to the GDP for the US?

I had a programming job for two decades before Bill's experimental BASIC interpreter let him make so many people rich. IBM, Burroughs, CDC, GE, Univac, DEC, Farrington, Honeywell, and all the rest managed to keep the roofs over a lot of heads for a long time, and some still do. The complaints with MS seem to focus on bloated programs and their pricing and support policies. My own experience with MS Help service went sour when I suggested they fix a known distribution problem by making it available for download, and the response was that they didn't want to make the software available to people who hadn't paid for it. They completely disregarded the people who had paid for the service but didn't get it, and their profit was their main concern. With every bit of software I acquire, I look for an alternative source, and it will please me greatly when Linux becomes the office standard. Screw MicroSoft.

You may have other operating systems like the linux distrobutions and Mac but really does the average user know how to use these operating systems, god no. I think once setup and training done people will know but then why hasnt this been done. The same reason why microsoft didnt make that download available.

They are a business to and want to make money, they quite successfully do it. Although i dont use MS products and instead run linux operating systems doesnt mean that most people can do this. Lets be honest people have grown up with MS it wont change for a long time. Vista will become the new standard, just like XP did when it was released

If working at Bestbuy Geeksquad has proven anything -- no, people cannot properly use computers. Regardless of whether or not it's a Mac, FreeBSD, or a Linux box, or whatever, if people don't know how to use the machine, it doesn't matter.

I'd rather have someone working for me who had access to the bare essentials, and was able to communicate with the rest of the company, with a product which broke less frequently because people don't know how to operate the machine in the first place.

Sure, Unix based OS-makers are producers of rope -- and you can definitely hang yourself much easier with Unix, if you do the right thing. The catch is that with Unix you're stuck with a smaller sandbox, so the likelihood of fubar'ing a machine is much lower, and it's much simpler to script common actions to make sure the machine is secure and up to date.

Why if you dont reqiure VISTA can you NOT say to the supplier/retailer I want XP PRO.

SORRY MS you have really screwed up this time.

My PICK VISTA another MS ME.

I will not be going the VISTA or OFFICE 2007 way, REASON as below.....

1) The learning curve form my staff to great and we want results from our workers and NOT sitting trying to work our HOW TO DO???.
2) The COST of this bloat ware too high.
3) We have too many computers that are not that old 12 months that will require hardware upgrades before we can get to our current XP PRO level.

NOT FOR US MR GATES.

Change is something that we all have problems with, but in the end, it all works out. I appreciate the tips on how to get the old look and feel of XP with Vista. I haven't worked with Vista too much yet, but I know that I will be in the not too distant future. Thanks for the tips. Very well done.

Most of the ten things on this list are really pretty petty complaints, there isn't one thing on it I miss. I've been running Vista for a few months, and yes, it took a minute to get used to things.
However, anybody remember how much change there was in XP? How many people are still changing the view in the XP control panel, or the start menu, to look like 2K. Half the people I know use the Back button and not the Up button. I guarantee if they hadn't made a bunch of major changes, people would be screaming that they hadn't made any major changes.
There were some major adjustments in moving to XP, and there will be adjustments when moving to Vista. As a network admin, it's my job to be able to deal with these adjustments, which is why I've been working with it daily for months, so I can be ready for the questions. Get the OS, get it set up, play with it, then wipe it and set it up again. Get used to it, and get on with it.

Glad to see someone else championing PowerDesk. Its a great program. PowerDesk Pro v6 loads and works fine in Vista -- just that during the install uncheck the box that says to use PowerDesk for Opening Explorer and IE.

Yes it is a great program! I have been using it since the beginning and have bought numerous copies to use on our equipment. The average user can work just fine without the Pro version, they just won't want to once they get it! You are right about unchecking the box for using to open Explorer and IE, the first time I did that by accident it seemed like it took forever to figure out what I had done

Sheesh,
And I thought I was the only person who liked the PD Pro program!

I wonder if Vistas preview pain has ability to view as many file types as PD6?

I found out some very interesting info about the company that made PD6 and its rival Explorer 6.

I've been using it forever as well. There are *only* two things I would wish for if it were ever updated:

1. Drive icons above BOTH panes instead of only one. I use dual, horizontal panes.

2. Lockable tabs for quick access to favorite folders.

I have purchased Powerdesk Pro v 6.0.2.3. There is an update patch to version 6.0.4.2 but this won't run in Vista. I get this error: No Valid Secquence could be found for the set of patches
Can someone tell me how to patch to the latest version in Vista? Thanks

I have purchased Powerdesk Pro v 6.0.2.3. There is an update patch to version 6.0.4.2 but this won't run in Vista. I get this error: No Valid Secquence could be found for the set of patches
Can someone tell me how to patch to the latest version in Vista? Thanks

I read this and know the limits it presents but there are allot more that are in the system that is more then just a learning curve issue. I've set up servers and done the permissions thing in the past but this takes the cake! Permission structuring to install new software does get unbelievably difficult, I have had incidents where there were no warnings or it's that there was a problem and it just stopped installing the software.

Many issues are not covered in any of the setup information or tutorial information. There could be a general start tutorial that would help newcomers to a Vista or even seasoned computer users that would eliminate the heavy frustrations the software operates under. I found myself more frustrated than actually satisfied or that of finding a wow.

I wish there was a simple way to turn off the entire security, build the box and then turn the security back on. It would also be nice to know more of the security parameters as to when and why they are activated. Also knowing more of the compatibility issues of software and new Vista operating system would reduce headaches. But then again that may be other security issues.

Additionally the speed or processing ability has now become a major issue because of all the redundancy built into the Security System. For the most part I cannot for see any lab top that I?ve ever used running this new Vista because of the speedy issues of this Security System. I turned my Vista machine down to the basic performance orientated machine forget the looks stuff sis and the machine still seems slower than any other XP box that I?ve used.

I am not a happy camper was my current Vista experience. Thank you!

OpenGL2 support I heard is missing.

Kinda stupid attitude to take out the open video interface when most every graphics card maker conforms to it.

I'm moving to Linux, so I'm not worried. I'll leave companies like Transgaming to make products like Cedega so I can play Windows games if I want.

Seeing my network shares, ie: Shared printer!!

Does anyone know of ANY program that will give the Total of file sizes in any one folder in Vista on the status bar, like it used to do in XP???

is not to install Visa in the first place.

That is my choice, but sadly forced on me by M$, far too expensive, far too draconian.

I would have preferred the choice, but I am left no option

Well written, well worth the read. Thanks.

I liked this one. I hope more like it appear in the near future.

Somebody is producing very high ended computer animations for movies,games,and TV.How are they doing it?The computers that I see on Television way out perform mine.I can tweak my operating system till I'm blue in the face and still not match the level of these computers.

This is little known, but the secret to high-end graphics is VOLTAGE. Try tweaking that from the standard 110/220 to 5,000 or 10,000 and see what graphics that makes!

Idiot! It's not the voltage, it's the frequency! Try using 120 Hz, or--better yet--the old military standby 20 KHz! Now that'll make your machine hum!

You're both wrong!
It's the impedance... try setting it to 0.5 micro ohms. That should do it.

It is insolence. Insolence, I say! It is the amount of insolence you have that makes the difference in your graphics and everything else. You speak of electrons but I say it is your attitude that makes all the difference. You all seem to being tweaking at top performance.

I just give the hamster more nuts. He gets that wheel hummin' then.

the lack of performance is caused by the build-up of smoke in the power supply. Here is how to fix it: with the computer off, you place a jumper (a small piece of wire will do) connecting any two red wires on the P/S connector that goes to the motherboard. Leave it well in place, turn the PC on and this will release the smoke build-up.

Then, after it is all done smoking, go out and spend $10,000 on a very high end system with quad CPUs, Gb graphic cards, truckloads of memory, the fastes HD you could possibly find and you will get your performance...

Cheers.

Attach the monitor to an F1 or Indy car

Just use Ultramon for Multiple monitor support. It is a lot better than built in support and is now Vista compatible too.

Is this going to be the new mantra for Vista users? "yea, just buy this, and vista will work like XP did"

I've not been a fan of microsoft for many years. While I see their vista ideas as a whole being generally better, I've also seen that its had a much more negative effect on getting work done, than previous versions of their OS did.

So just pile this on, if you want working multi-monitor support in Vista, buy it from someone other than microsoft. Got it, will start looking for the next juicy vein to slice open, to get cash, for additional softare I never needed before vista.

Gee what ever happened to Norton Desktop for windows 3.1 .... that was a REAL add on that made for much better value. A replacement "progman.exe" that actually made the system a little easier to use, while adding the complexity to do far much more.

Actually no, this phenomenon is not new to Vista. Ultramon was more than useful in previous versions & doesn't just make Vista look like XP. It improved the XP Multi-monitor experience as well.

Sometimes Microsoft's best efforts are not good enough, and if you have the need for more functionality 3rd party is still the way to go.

Its not for everyone, but at least you still have a choice.

Not if MS has anything to say about it! They do not like all these "crapletts" cluttering and degrading their OS!!

Hurray for Norton Desktop, or PCTools Desktop, my favorite. Today I use Powerdesk from VCOM, which is a better Explorer than Windows Explorer.

I hate the new Vista defrag. The old one let me see the report on what files are most fragmented. The fastest way to defrag is to move that fragmented file to another physical hard drive and back.

Darn, this isn't a free tool it's a free "upgrade". My fault for not reading more clearly.

If I could only have one third party utility, DISKEEPER is it!
I have it on my 933 PIII, and it keeps that 250G drive flying, with the "Set it and forget it" function.
It keeps the extremely important PageFile in one segment--all the time.
I can't think of a better fifty bucks to spend on any computer.

with Eco_Dino, Diskeeper is one of the best products on the market. If I am not mistaken, the XP Disk Defrag is a crippled version of the Diskeeper engine MS leases. Even if I am wrong, It doesnt matter, Diskeeper still is an amazing product. I never have fragmentation worth mentioning. Defrag runs every night and my disks keep on spinning.

Surprising that any company would want to be known as supplying a "crippled" version of anything to MS

of defrag utilities that is. I also use pagedfrg from sysinternals. Thanks to them, I can wave bye bye to my slow disk access problems

I'm on the fence as to how much defragging actually helps. While it almost certainly will improve drive access, I think the jury is out on how much.

Where Diskeeper really shines is in its ability to do its job (and do it well, by the way) in the background by using idle CPU capacity. The highest compliment I can give is that I always forget it's running. Only when I see some drive activity do I remember.

The interface is also very good and intuitive. Definitely a "best buy".

Regards,
Hank Arnold
Microsoft MVP

While diskeeper is not free it is well worth the money. The built-in Windows XP defrag utility sometimes refuses to defrag a disk. It knows that the volume is heavily fragmented, but running it, over and over again, will not decrease the fragmentation.

I created a command script that ran the built-in defrag utility on the volume in a loop for a 1000 times. At the end, the volume's fragmentation had not changed. When I put the trial version of diskeeper on the system and ran it manually three or four times, I had a volume with practically no fragmentation.

Not sure why the built-in defrag utility refused to defragment the volume, but I don't use it anymore since I upgraded my diskeeper trial version. I highly recommend diskeeper as a must have utility for Windows XP. I suspect their Vista product will be just as good and will put it on my Vista system when I get one.

BTW, I'm not affiliated with Execsoft, the maker of diskeeper, just a very pleased customer.

The defrag utility in Windows XP is a cut down version of a third party utility (I believe it is diskkeeper). It will not defragment certain kinds of files (the one I remember off the top of my head is the pagefile). That is why running the windows XP defrag didn't reduce your fragmentation.

Bill

You are correct the defrag in XP is a licensed crippled version of Diskeeper from the former executive software now known as Diskeeper.
I have used their product back in the windows NT 4.0 days until the present current version 2007. It has always performed outstandingly, and the new scheduler is extremely comprehensive. The defrag tool in Vista which is from God knows Who???? is an absolute piece of crap. No idea what it is doing or when it will finish as their is no prgress window or grahical interface. As ususal M$ finds a way to break what was not broken.

Have read the posts regarding Diskkeeper.
What are you alls thoughts on Raxco's Perfect Disk program??

I tried Perfect Disk (v7) and found it was no use for defragging the primary bootable drive at boot-time. Not sure if this is still the case with v8.

Diskeeper does everything I've ever asked it to do without any grumbles. It's slightly faster than Perfect Disk (on my drives) and I've no desire to switch.

Check out this link for a debate on which one is best:

http://www.driverheaven.net/applications-software-tweaking/122458-diskeeper-11-vs-perfect-disk-8-a.html

I tried both. I definitely preferred Diskeeper over Perfect Disk. Better interface. I could see a system performace impact from PD. DK runs all the time, yet has zero impact on performance.

Regards,
Hank Arnold
Microsoft MVP

Who was the expert mind mentor that removed
the folders tree in the explorer bar?
Apparently with no easy way to get it back.
MS can keep this ie7 pile of ?.

BUNCH OF WHINERS - you mean to tell me after all the negative attacks on security, stability, access to programs from 3rd party vendors - this is the rhetoric that you hear. -

You just can seem to please anyone nowadays!

Lets not just label and run ... lets look at why...

Innovation? This round of innovation is costing 100 to 400 dollars for people to get something that **should** have been in the OS some time ago.

Separation of Church and State ... Microsoft is going to easily profit being the only OS and APPLICATIONS that will run seamlessly are their own.

Its not because microsoft built the better mouse trap, but that the guys building the bait system, and the guys building the spring loaded bar and wooden frame, were able to collude on the layout, and give a little more time and know how serious the change was from XP to Vista...

Its a little like nepotism, promote family first. The "microsoft" family. Damned to everyone else that didn't take the change seriously, microsoft OS folks did warn that Vista was going to change....

Did they make the change gradual? or did they suddenly derail the XP world, in favor of Vista, before the rest of the train could catch up?

And while at it, did microsoft decide they were 100% right about everything and everyone else wrong? They sure did.

I like my File Menu above my address bars, I like my windows in classic/2000 mode, I like seeing every extension rather than microsoft deciding "exe" and all the other executable extensions were just nonsensical add ons not worth seeing. And then too the Back/Up ... I may go back to the previous web page, but I very frequently go up and down in diretories..

So ... whine? yes.. with very good reason? Certainly. Should I switch to vista? Never. Why? Because I will *never* be satisfied with the changes microsoft made, that are anti-productive.

Tell me.. what will you do when your mouse isn't working? What keyboard shortcuts did microsoft leave out, and why should you have to wait twice as long for the File menu to appear simply because Vista is for Mice?

Vista has nothing I want for the price I'd have to pay.

No way man - I don't still don't buy it. I mean my point was before Vista there was a ton of criticism of poor security, thats basically all you heard. Now that MS has made a legitimate attempt to address security and progress in OS structure you mean to tell me that now the problem is that its too power hungry and vulnerable to bad mice - no way - I think no matter what MS does, since its the big the dog in the neighborhood the smaller cats will cry - no matter what.

"Did they make the change gradual? or did they suddenly derail the XP world, in favor of Vista, before the rest of the train could catch up?"

You could always choose to stay with XP - and exactly which train is lagging behind?

Yes, there were security problems in previous Windows releases. Fixing them does not require changing anything other than the security problems.

That would have been admitting that they made mistakes in the first versions They would have had to include those in Service Packs and couldn't have made a ton of money on them. They wouldn't have been able to make the OS even more proprietary and in turn lock out 3rd. party security experts who could provide the needed auditing of what VISTA is doing, or not doing! If MS is the only one who knows what is happening at the kernel level vis a vis security they can control how much info is getting out and when. They can also then blame any security woes on other people and not have to take responsibility for the inherent design flaws in their proprietary kernel that can not be taken apart and examined for all the potential screwups and bugs because of DRM! Convenient that piece of crap legislation that makes it illegal for people or companies to examine, repair, and modify a critical component of the OS, all in the name of anti-piracy enforcement. How many individuals are involved in piracy of the OS compared to countries that allow it, such as China? What is the cost of those individuals verses Countries that promote or allow said piracy?

mmmm - its not about pleasing - its about two things:

1/. the products matching the description and
2/. the products being fit for purpose

With all the problems, M$ has not delivered, like the usual track ahs shown, and as usual, the release was late, and then full of problems.

Its the consumer that looses out... Its not good enough! Micro$oft is ffailing its customer base.

Let me ask these questions...

1/. If a civil enigeer had to repair, rebuild, reconstruct every building he built, how long would he remain a civil enigeer?

2/. If a doctor failed every patient and mis-diagnosed the patient's problems every time... How long would the doctor remain in business?

3/. Microsoft releases faulty software, the world snaps it up, and M$ remains in business...

Why is that do you think?

I don't disagree with what you mention, but MS is a company in a Capitalist country, with lots of shareholders to make happy and profits to make. A company?s number one concern is to make money, and as long as people keep buying their products Microsoft will continue to stick with what works for them. In a capitalist society the consumer has the real power, if we don?t like the product then we shouldn?t purchase the product, MS will be forced to change. With other OS vendors out there like Linux and Apple there is some strong competition (albeit not nearly as big as MS), that give consumers choice. Not to mention all the legal problems they are running into across the world forcing them to change the way they do business.

Or just stick with XP, they will support that for at least another 3-5 years, by then maybe Vista will be all it should be for you? Microsoft is way too big and sells to such a diverse variety of people that it will never be everything to everyone. How many people across the world own a MS OS, a billion? At best it can only be a good general OS overall, one that fits most peoples needs most of the time (and maybe a little more). I myself have no problem with XP, so I know they can do a good job, will I switch to Vista, probably one day, but not yet. Why buy a new car if you still like your current one?

$0.2

I don't game so I could care less about DirectX 10. I don't care much for the eye candy, infact many of my XP settings are set to "classic" W2K views and fades etc are turned off.
So can anyone give me one reason why I should upgrade to Vista?

It's good for the economy... keep America working!

... from the commander in chief himself - just keep shopping.