Discussion on:

Top 10 Windows Vista annoyances

Do you share some of these same Vista peeves? What else would you add to the annoyances column--and what features do you think qualify as benefits and improvements?

1) XP Pro does not 'UpGrade' forcing me to re-install software

I had issues moving from Pro to Vista but ALL were issues with old hwd, HWD issues that I should have corrected long ago and outdated software.

It took a week, but after I looked back had I been running a clean XP machine the only issue I would have had is my TV software (SnapStream), it acted a bit flakey for a while but Snapstream did some tweaking that did the trick.

I love Vista..sure it takes some getting used to as it is very different from XP but then I upgraded from 3.1 to 95 and that was a shocker too.

It is prettier, with nicer features and once you understand what they are trying to achieve it actually saves you time.

Coupled with the new office suite (and BOY has that changed) I think it is a great leap forward.

I understand your frustrations with hardware etc but I managed to get around all of this buy buying a pc that was up to spec .. simple but effective.

I see,
It was very different from XP, and it took some time to learn.
The officepackage is very changed, and must have taken som time to learn too.
Now that's a learning-curve isn't it? Where then, is the complaints about the learning curve, which we always hear when we talk about changing from iconbased Windows to icon based Linux?
And you had to buy a new PC up to specs, which means faster processor, more RAM and more disc.
Lots of learning plus a new PC, doesn't sound like a good bargain to me. What did you actually get, that you didn't have before - apart from a new PC? How did it increase your productivity?

I bought a new laptop 2 months after Vista came out. Played with it for a month and took the bloody thing back. Had 20 members of my staff do likewise, 18 returned the laptops in less than a month; based on that I retrieved the last two and returned all 20. The OS has a nasty learning curve and won't run 70% of the programs that we run. Of the 70%, about half of them require us to buy upgrades to run on Vista.

We are looking at several options including Macs (which I tend to dislike) - we would have to run our windows programs on the XP emulator. Why Microsoft didn't make the OS more backwards compatible I'll never know, but it will be years, if ever, before we move to it.

Really dislike this particular OS.

No 11 - "Users who winge, moan and complain about most things in a new OS"...

I've been using Vista since the Beta's and yes it takes a little getting used to however, once you are used to it, going back to XP is definitely a step backwards. Yes XP is a great OS, but lets be honest, Humans are creatures of habit, and any change always causes frustration, until it becomes the norm. Half the things you listed are not things you do everyday. The other half are just sheer lack of familiarity. Turn off the UAC if you don't like it, but don't winge when a rouge application suddenly appears on your system!

Almost everything in life costs money. Bottom line, the more you pay, the more you get. Same goes for software. Manufacturers have been offering various versions of their software at differing prices for a long time now. Imagine if only the most expensive version of every app was available. Full of features that you would never ever use. Would you still buy it? Or would you look at a competitors product which is cheaper, and less feature rich. Or start a movement to boycott that manufacturer?

Lets not forget, Microsoft is a business. They create software in order to make money for their share holders. The best way to cover all incomes within the modern world is to offer multiple versions at varying prices. Similarly to car manufacturers. Most offer at least three versions of the same car at varying prices with varying features. Funny how we don't hear so much winging about the new shapes, differing interiors etc of cars...

As for the upgrading of hardware to support Vista, it's your choice, like everything out there. Yes, you may need to upgrade your video card, but you don't need to buy the most expensive card out there. It's long been a fact of life that the rate of change and the requirements for upgrades are driven by what you do. If you use your pc for typing letters, then you can buy one second hand for $50 that will do the trick. If however, you want one with all the latest bells and whistles, lovely interfaces (aero) then you pay for it. Not that long ago cars didn't come with air conditioners however, a pricey upgrade would give you the luxury.

Grow up, learn some patience and perseverance and look at the big picture...

Cheers.

I love Vista, but with failing eye-sight I have great difficulties reading the pale blue text (as in this Forum).
Changing to a legacy mode is an unattractive solution.
But there is NO WAY to change the pale blue text color to anything darker in AeroGlass. For reasons of design purity the user is left crippled, litterally.
Is nobody else complaining about this stubborness?

Did you get it all out?
Most people would just say it will take some getting used to....but you?..
We're all adults. Try not to bark at people to grow up. Your blood pressure will thank you.

Sorry to say that Vista is NOT ready for primetime if you have many network devices and are a PC gamer. When I began using Vista Ultimate for real (after playing with betas), my external drives were not recognized, leaving me without a backup solution. Games produced prior to 2003 would not run. Upgraded graphics card to the latest and greatest and decided that Vista should be reserved for "Vista Only" games (to come). Had to buy a full retail version of XP Pro since Vista won't dual boot with an OEM version of XP. Now have best of two worlds, tweaking both OS's to suit my preferences. Caution: There is a specific sequence of steps when creating a dual boot with Vista. So I am very patient, no complaints, since I have my cake and I can eat it too...LOL

I run a Mac Pro, 2 x 2.66 GHz Xeon, 2 GB RAM, 250+500
GB HD, 23" display, that I use for work and family. The
new public Beta of Boot Camp (V1.2) now supports Vista.
I just installed it and Vista Ultimate on the weekend.
Works very well for me. For work I do have to use both
Windows and OS X as the product (Java-based) we make
runs on both platforms.

That said, I much prefer OS X and I try to work from OS X
as much as possible. For my family I bought a 17" iMac
and have a wireless network. Again I much prefer OS X
for the family. I hated being the tech support gury for my
wife and kids whenever Windows bugged out. I have yet
to establish if Vista is any more reliable than XP for home
use, but XP was a major pain...anti-virus programs
screwing up the works, registries getting screwed up, etc.

Dual-booting Vista and OS X won't be much help if you want to play games, which was one of the major points of the post you replied to.

I don't know why you had so much trouble with XP though; it was flaky at first (which is why I stayed with Windows 2000 Pro for a couple of years after XP was released), but is now pretty solid. If you were having trouble with AV programs, then they were the problem and not XP as I have had no problems whatsoever with the AV software I use.

If the registry was getting screwed up, then you were almost certainly doing something wrong yourself (such as choosing to install malware-infested programs). Take a few minutes to find out about what you are considering installing first, and registry corruption will never happen. At least it hasn't happened to me in the entire time I've been using Windows 2000 and XP, and I've tried an amazing number of applications (including shareware and freeware). Install blindly and you're asking for trouble, regardless of which OS you're running.

It was a family computer, upgraded from Windows ME (now THAT sucked!), to XP Pro and eventually to SP2. Mostly the kids used it...which is why I had so many security issues; I worked mainly from an XP laptop that has no issues. I now have them on an iMac that I administer, and I work with the Mac Pro at home, the XP laptop when on the road.

The games I play are Flight Simulator, as I'm a pilot and can practise instrument flying on it, and Combat Flight Simulator, just for fun. Both run fine in Vista Ultimate, and in fact I'm quite pleased with the frame rates I'm getting. I only use Vista at home for these games. Everything else I have migrated over to my Mac Pro for myself (using the XP laptop when I travel), or the iMac for the kids.

The UAC on Vista is a real pain though, my biggest beef.

Is very useful for those who really are techno-illiterate. For the rest of us, its a piece of cake to turn off so dont despair!

I find with each change in windows i give up more and more control of my computer. a lot of old programs are as good as when they came out. Now many will not work on xp or are hard to configure. I myself don't plan to buy any more windows operating system. there is no real reason that the old programs do not to work. i feel it's just a way to make money. which bill gates has done. he sells you an operating system that has problem and then he sells you an upgrade with problems, then an upgrade with problems. i have used dos 1.0 -6.2, windows 95, then 98se and me. i finally upgraded to xp and i don't think it works well with old programs. i am not rich and if i buy another os it will have to work with the programs i have already period. the las os that worked well without problems was 6.2. in dos i wrote my own menus and batch files, i only booted in to windows 3.1 from the menu. i knew how my system operated and i could change it to suit myself. now you use what they like.

I was going to write this response but you beat me to it--Thanks

RE: You Forgot Windows Annoyance Number 11...

YOU SAID IT BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!

According to everyone I know (apart from my family), I am a computer GOD. I use Vista a bit, and I have to say, I don't know the password for Admin (the only administrator account set up), but otherwise I go by without interruption.

A little annoyed Vista doesn't detect the modem XP loved. Ehh, win a few, lose a lot.

Finally someone that makes sense. Thanks for the great post.

You took the words right out of my mouth Avandeven.
Thanks for saving me a lengthy reply

nice speech dude. seriously. but wheres all the "patience" when using OSS. its just like humans aint it .. "as long as the packaging is pretty no body cares whats inside" . maybe you have not heard "all the best things in life come free".

The bigger picture is that as a planet we need to use less, not more. Progress is an OS that needs less ram, less power (Aero GPU), less space and a smaller carbon footprint. Instead we have the opposite. There is NO NEED to move forward for forwards sake. A pretty interface is no excuse for manufacturing more ram, bigger power supplies etc etc. The code CAN be written efficiently, look at grc.com and see what can be done in machine code.. Now I know this goes against the tech geek thing, and I am one, but Vista is an upgrade to make money. It cares nothing about the planet, all it does is make you feel good. Now sombody do it right, make a good OS on 256mb ram and a TNT level of graphics, then we can stop throwing away all this stuff.
If anybody says Linux I'll scream

Machine code is hard to write. That leaves out most of the current generation of programmers.

The Apollo space mission was launched on 64 bytes of code and ran on solid-core processors with solid-core RAM. So why does it take 8GB of RAM to play a video game or write a letter or launch a browser? Simple answer: sloppy code.

That's all we're going to get from M$, though so you might as well get used to it.

Oh, and "Unix". There, now you don't have to scream.

GD

"Machine code is hard to write. That leaves out most of the current generation of programmers."

KO, then let's drop the current generation of programmers and send them to school where they can learn proper programming. It is not so long ago, maybe 10 years, that I managed a business suite, a complete ERP system, on a system where the max size of a compiled program was 64k.
I remember also one of the last versions of OS/2, where IBM proudly announced that they had managed to squeeze the kernel size from about 800k to 700k, making it run faster on the customers existing HW. Now thats a very different attitude from the one displayed by Microsoft. "Great news! We have hired Afghani peasants as programmers - ups sorry - engineers, and by real hard work we have managed again to explode everything to immense size - please buy new HW."
As for the environmental side of the picture, I have created real good results by removing the PC from the office user, and given them thin clients instead.

HAHA - That is the operating system that I am using now - switched cold from Vista Premium to Ubuntu Feisty Fawn .... It is ALL there! Everything you need to do can be downloaded - Java, MP3, DVD codecs plus open office 2.0 that runs efficiently, database, host of about 300 free games and etc..... My interface is set up to look kinda like a Mac -
Long Live LINUX!

I tried Vista Business 64 bit for about two months then decided to go back to XP Pro 64 because Vista is too bloated and began to slow down on my self made AMD64 PC. Now I'm looking at PCLinuxOS or Debian since they both run so much better without all the worries of viruses/malware, etc. My Vista is going on eBay soon. 'Nix rules.

I appreciate much Vista's capabilities, but find it wanting is some areas. I bypassed XP and upgraded to Vista Home basic on a new PC (Dell e520), but find i cannot fax on Vista nor will my FTP programs work. And i prefer the simplicity (and up arrow) of 9x on navigation. So i installed Ubuntu feisty (relatively robust and mature) on a partition on a second HD, and recently installed PClinuxOS (faster, and better partitioner), as they both recognize my Sata drive on this Mobo. But while Linux is vastly more user friendly than before, and is overall improving, yet for many things (like even gaining ownership on many folders) one must learn or find DOS type commands. The help forums themselves, though they are a help, reveal that Linux has a ways to go if it will actually become a really contender for MS, which needs some Linux competition.

By that way, you can easily to mount and write to NTFS in Ubuntu feisty: driveshttp://www.ubuntugeek.com/widows-ntfs-partitions-readwrite-support-made-easy-in-ubuntu-feisty.html

quote
but don't winge when a rouge application suddenly appears on your system!
unquote

I see. In my thinking any OS that allows installing 'a rogue application' behind my back isn't woth any price asked for it.

Your points:
1. Frustation only comes when things are made harder or changed unnecessarily!
2. XP was solid (I liked XP) but Vista drove me to Linux. The UAC is fine but the hardware requirements are insane! -
3. The world does not revolve around paying 300 dollars for an operating system when you can get an operating system that:
a. Is immune to most viruses
b. Does all word processing and more than windows does!
c. Has games galore for free (for the kids of course).
d. Would please even the most demanding computer administrator!
Absolutely FREE!
4. There is absolutely no reason why they are offering 6 VERSIONS of windows - the share holders don't care@! They just want to make money.....The creation of 6 versions make people wonder what they are not able to afford that the rich man can!
5. I must stress the fact that "What you pay for is what you get" is a CROCK - that is what people want you to believe. They mark up things high so people think they are getting more -=) It is a disease or something!

Linux is coming...Linux is coming... Long live Linux!

Someone I could have a beer with!

Well said!

OK look at it from the point of view of my clients. How does Vista help the small real estate office or the music store or the doctor's office? From their point of view it does not. So why should they put out more money for software, change from applications that work for them, retrain staff and upgrade hardware when their business is NOT Information Technology? The attitude of you HAVE to deal with it is one that is beginning to wear thin on businesses. They are starting to fight back with no we don;t we do not have to buy your stuff. And honestly I see where they are coming from. Microsoft needs to add functionality tath shows a measurable ROI not a bunch of gee whiz features.

Now that being said I SO far like Vista, but then again I am not the diaper service that just needs to keep track of my routes and accounts. My compalints are that some tasks that were simple have become time consuming by having to go through 4 steps instead of 1.

Actually my persoanl annoyance right now is that I can't hook up a null modem cord or a serial connection to an old 98 machine to pull off data files. I have to go through a few hoops to get that to work. So you can imagine how frustrated a small to medium business is trying to do the same. For that matter a few larger companies are JUST going to XPPro because it has finally been deemed stable. The seeming (to them) quick shut off and switchover to Vista has left a bad taste in many users' mouths. Remember not everyone has had access to the OS since it's early Beta days.

This guy must work for Microsoft, or at least get paid directly or indirectly by them. "Grow up and learn patience?" "Everything costs money?" How insulting to the intelligent educated IT people that have enough common sense to get a clue that spending more money to do the same thing AND having it take more clicks to do it is ridiculous. This is the first time in my IT career of 16 years that I've ever stepped backwards to my prior OS because a new version of an OS was that bad. The eye candy that Vista offers is in no way worth the hardware resources, hardware upgrades, software purchases, etc to even remotely justify it. When you've got a Vista desktop sitting idle, using more ram than a 2k3 Enterprise R2 server sitting idle, there's a problem.. The problem is a complete and utter lack of vision by Microsoft (again) to account for the millions of pc users who are going to blindly go out and buy Vista for their computers and wonder why it runs like #$!@.. Never before in the history of Microsoft's upgrade cycle has there ever been such a steep jump in ram and CPU requirements. I'm sticking with XP for now, and that's NOT something I would normally do when something new comes out.. That's especially frustrating for me given the fact that I earn my living as a system analsyt..

Randy
MCSE,CNA,EE

Well said!

You are trying to tell me to "GROW UP"? I just went through telling our office staff "learn to use it" & "you'll get used to it" with new rating software where I work. If any part of what I was working on had involved "but you'll need new printers, drivers (which, oh by the way, can't be had), and most of your other software won't play nicely with this", do you think for one fraction of a second we would have instituted it? I'd have told management to run for the hills, myself!

Everything that comes from Microsoft is sent from heaven, at it is sheer stupidity or heresay to critisize it, or even say that the reason they market it is not because it is better, but because they want to line their pockets with even more money than they have already.

If you follow the news in pro magazines, you will have noticed that there is a common perception that Vista is no good in the business, and that it will be a very short-lived affair.

Gaming? Buy a console, X-box if you are a believer Play Station if you aren't.

I bought an HP m9402f with Vista Home Premium and I only just got it running problem free last week. First I had to pay HP to figure out why Vista couldn't recognize an HP printer. That was a four-hour phone call.

Then came a problem with Vista and my Epson Perfection scanner. I tried and tried downloading a driver from the website with no luck. Finally I called Microsoft and paid for support. The first tech couldn't do anything (1 1/2 hours) so I had a call back the next day with a different technician who spent three hours before deciding that the Vista on my computer was damaged in some way since it couldn't download and install the Epson driver from the web site. He deleted my ENTIRE hard drive, which meant I would have to re-install everything I had transferred from my previous computer.

Then he downloaded an new version of Vista on my computer. So I ended up paying Microsoft to replace their own damaged software that came in a new computer.

The next thing that went wrong was that my Office 2007 Upgrade wouldn't install (though I had previously installed it before the tech wiped out my hard drive). I paid more money for assistance with this. But the technician couldn't get it to install on my computer with the NEW Vista software. He ordered a call back for the next day.

The next day the new technician finally got Office 2007 installed so that I could put in my Upgrade. After the upgrade was installed, the programs wouldn't open. I called back...but this time I was crying.

I'm a woman, so it's okay for me to do that.

The next technician took over an hour before finally finding the problem. Another problem with Vista software.

The next problem after this was that every time I started the computer, the Windows Installer window popped up and tried to install a program. I would have to hit cancel 20 times before I could get rid of it. By this time, I was sobbing when I called Microsoft for help.

I am a high English school teacher and the hours spent with technicians were hours I needed in my life for other things. I should have returned the computer immediately, but I thought Microsoft could fix its own operating system. With my own work load, I couldn't call back every day, and there were days I just couldn't bring myself to turn the computer on. Suddenly, the return date had slipped by.

The Microsoft technician determined, after hours of poking, into every nook and cranny of my computer that the Windows Installer problem was not a Microsoft problem but an HP problem and referred me to them to fix the problem.

I had already experienced HP technical support and I couldn't pay more money or take more frustration so I disconnected everything and put the computer in the attic. I brought out my old PC clone running Windows XP.

I mentioned the problem to one of my students and he said he could fix it. Yea, right. Desperate, I brought it in to my class room and...he fixed it!! He didn't want to take any money, but I didn't want him to think he was going to get paid for this by getting an "A" in English, so I paid him $100. It was worth every penny.

I still can't print can't print my Quicken checks on my HP printer, but I have been assured by Quicken that they and HP are working on a solution.

Yes MS is a business, but the rate of change in OS's is so fast it doesn't give anyone a chance to get used to the change. Everyone is using an XP with XP apps and then POOF MS makes an OS that is unfriendly to XP apps! Yes, it's up to the software companies to make OS friendly apps, but MS has a role to play there too. Funny how Windows 7 has an XP option!
As for cars and vista, changing the shape or colour of a car doesn't make it go slower or make it harder to steer or start. That's were MS makes it hard on the user. Imagine if EVERYTIME you turned your key to start your car, the car asked you if you're SURE you want to do that? And then made you reach over and push a couple of buttons too.
Or had 9 different ways to shut off the car?

Here's a simple top 10 annoyances list:

DRM - no excuse for this level of intrusion/overhead - especially to enforce laws that may not apply - or say otherwise!

EULA - you can't buy it, and you have no rights..

REPEAT 5 times....

Nail right the head when you said that!

to have to read about VISTA everywhere.
IMHO nobody needs it (execpt M$).
Somebody please explains me once why there is a need for it? My XP can do all, I don't need fancy graphics, I don't need UAC (I run restricted, so not too many security issues) and then what's more in it?

The point of Vista is make Microsoft more money, that said I like Vista. It's the lack of driver and software support by manufacturers that's the big let down. I like the little extra's that it give's to the user experience. For a business I cann't see it been wide spread for another couple of years, The cost of hardware upgrades and software compatibly issue's are it's biggest headache. As a business user I be removing the pretty features so it look and feel the same as XP, so back to reason why upgrade?

It's always Vista, Vista, Vista.

I've been a Microsoft TechNet Flash subscriber for some time. The weekly email newsletters have always provided me with time saving and informative links to any number of useful tips for Microsoft products.

However, since Vista went primetime, it seems the newsletter is filled with links for Vista related material.

Perhaps the editor of this newsletter should browse some statistics on number of XP users vs. Vista users?

I'm using Vista Business edition at home, and keep getting blue screens. I upgraded the motherboard, processor (AMD 64 X2) and memory (4Gb) etc to ensure compatibility. I had to use the onboard video because of the lack of driver availably for my FX350 video card. But still only get a Vista Experience of 3.0! How your meant to get a higher number without driver support I don't know!
Even the Vista compatible motherboard doesn't have any driver available yet! so I have to expect Microsoft to provide a working device driver, again not good.
I like Vista but due to lack of support I thinking of going back to XP until Microsoft can sort out the bugs in the system (SP1 or SP2?)

This is, what, the 5th verse, same as the first.

The adventurous among us are out there with blood streaming from open wounds, talking about how great Vista is/is going to be.

The conservative ones - that'd be the IT managers with limited time and budgets - with whom I do business, well they just laugh when I ask them about Vista plans.

They aren't even going to look at it for a year. It was the same with XP. It's a smart choice. They'll get there in their own good time, not on Microsoft's schedule.

There's no killer app out that demands that most businesses use Vista. XP's sttled down, and we're still in the middle of its life cycle.

Only an adventurer or fool would "fix" something that ain't broke. Which is why Microsoft has to spend time and money nudging us into early adoption.

It seems obvious from the brouhaha about DRM that a lot of Vista under the hood is about providing Microsoft a means of delivering content the way the content providers want, rather than the way we want.

Since DRM and content management add NO value to my clients' businesses, they DON'T CARE. Vista is just plain irrelevant.

Asking them to line up to get shot in the forehead is not a career move for an IT consultant

I'm finally ready to purchase a new computer for my home/middle school age son. I started shopping local stores, Dell website, and other retailers; and all the new PC's come with one of those many versions of Win Vista. I don't want Win Vista. I like sticking to what I know and if there are already 10+ annoyances to Vista, why change? If it ain't broke, don't fix it, I always say. Anyway, any advice on how to get a new PC with Windows XP?

If you want XP buy from Something like Dell's Business channel. IT should still have XP available.

If you want XP you can get it from Dell but you have to order from the Business side. The Optiplex line still offers XP Pro as an option because Dell understands that businesses want XP instead of Vista. The consumer lines offer Vista because they want to keep Microsoft happy.

Don't forget about the people that made computers available for so long! Find a reputable local computer that sells good hardware and LICENCED SOFTWARE. You might pay an extra dollar but its worth it. You own all the software and the hardware should be much better than any crap from Dell.
Support Local System Builders!
Thanks

It's quite simple. Don't buy a computer - build your own. Buy an OEM copy of XP and install it yourself. This is the cheapest way and you will of course provide all your own technical support being an IT Support person! I build and sell hundreads of PC's like this and they always work well providing you choose quality components.

I was just checking out Dell and they were offering three different OS's. Vista, XP and Redhat.

I've recently put in a fair amount of time into researching the whole "Dell/XP/Vista" issue. I've been purchasing Dell PC's for my company for several years. However, I was very close to ending this relationship when I discovered the limited availability of XP on new Dell purchases.

Fortunately, after discussing the issue with my Dell Business rep and scouring the Dell forums for information on the subject, I found a solution.

Microsoft has added an exception to its EULA with regard to Windows XP Professional and Vista Business. It goes something like this: [Until January 2009, purchasers of retail or OEM versions of Vista Business may substitute a previously purchased copy of Windows XP Professional under the same license]. I verified this with Dell.

Of course, in order to make use of this license modification, you have to already own a copy of Win XP Pro.

I've provided a link to the official Microsoft announcement of the license modification below:

[http://download.microsoft.com/download/d/2/3/d23b9533-169d-4996-b198-7b9d3fe15611/downgrade_chart.doc]

You would not be suffering from any licensing issues if you were using L I N U X ! I really don't like people telling me what I can and can't do with things that I pay hard earned money for!
Check out Ubuntu - Linux for life!

If you look at some of the forums back when XP came out you will find that most of this stuff has been said before. We said it after Win95, after Win98, after WinMe(especially after WinMe!!) and we said it when XP came out. We'll all be fine with Vista after SP1 comes out.

I alrdy hv Vist...and the original XP CDs as well...pls temme if thr r ny complications in getting a dual boot done?

You'd install win98 first on one partition then install winNT (Vista now) on the second partition. Since Vista (was winNT) is the more advanced OS, it should recognize and provide dual boot for the previously installed win98. In this case, try winXP installed first then Vista on a seporate drive/partition.

The other option is to use a true multiple boot manager. There are some good ones though I can't remember the name of a particular one mentioned on TR recently. It provides a boot menu of all your different OS partitions then hides partitions not belonging to the dormant boots so you can have as many different MS or other OS as you like.

fits on a floppy, selects what drive you can boot from
If you haven't got a floppy drive (get another computer) or, burn it to a CD,or thumb drive

I use it for a computer that doesn't let me select which boot order to boot from.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/btmgr/

I've loadlin and a few old Win boot disk images along with LILO on my personal machines but this is a nice "cover all" progarm to add in.

Interesting that no one included the WGA issue. Vista continually checks itself to make sure it is genuine and yet if you install something that makes a change and it doesn't like it then WGA deactives the OS you just paid 300 clams for - that would be an annoyance.

The rest, yes it is it irritating but no more so than say getting wifi working in linux; if you decide to live with the platform then deal with it - otherwise don't upgrade or change platforms.

Hi, i came across this site looking for a way to easily change the file icons in Vista, but as i believe i have found ?bugs? in Vista i thought it might help to share these, in the context of contrast with my prior W/ OS experience.

Unlike most others i had little experience with XP, and instead i used W9x machines extensively (10- 16 hours a day) for 7 years, especially on the web. Upon receiving a brand new PC (thank God!) recently for this little non profit ministry, a Dell E520 (3.08 ghz; 512mb ram), with Vista reinstalled, i hoped this one would fly. My fastest machine prior to that was a tweaked 650mhz AMD (320mb ram) with 98se, which i actually found faster in many respects than newer machines with XP that i had tried. Upon using Vista on this Dell machine i was somewhat disappointed, as from boot up (approx. 90 secs) to opening folders and files to shutdown it was actually slower, and about the same in web surfing (Firefox) and only slightly faster in opening heavy applications (even w/out indexing or anti-vir running and very low CPU use). Sails like it's dragging an anchor. But of course, it can do (some) more things and it can handle a whole lot more multi-tasking than the older but very manageable 98se, which among some other things, very often ran low on sys. resources (which FreeRamXP would alert me to). After i had partitioned the drive and done a clean install and realized the same slowness, I set about to tweaking Vista, which i mainly used the freeware version of TweakIV. http://www.totalidea.com/content/tweakvi/tweakvi-down.php to do, as well as going into the BIOS and choosing to set the CPU to best performance. These tweaks (ask for details if you like) lowered the boot time to about the same as my 98 machine (1 minute) and did things like making menu's jump into action (400ms to 75ms).

The tweaks were not bugs in Vista, only preferences therein, as was choosing Classic view in Start menu and Ctrl Panel, and setting my folder View preferences to Details (Apply to all folders under folder Options). But as regards the latter, this was one of the the first bugs, as it would ?forget? what my view preferences were, and revert back to large icons, or Tiles (which i just discovered it did again as i looked for a file). I found others have experienced this as well as windows not remembering their size. http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=532849&st=45. The registry tweak there seemed to reduced the incidences, but it still happens, even though in Folder Options>View ?Remember each folder view settings? is checked, as well as ?Show preview... ? under General. Under System (Windows key and Pause key) and Advanced Sys. Prop>Performance>Settings i have checked ?Animate windows when minimizing..;? ?Show preview..;? ?Smooth edges..;? ?Smooth scroll...,? and ?Use visual styles.?

As for my quest that brought me here, apparently Vista does not allow you to change file icons. http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article02-500. Also, once i had tried to change the default folder (not file type) icon into a one of the custom (but apparently corrupted) ones i had mad, it would not work, and now the option to change it is no longer there. These things of course are minor, though they make for faster manual searches.

A more major inability was that Vista could not play DVD's. Windows Media refused to play them, speculating that it was my screen resulution (1024 x 768) nor could the latest versions of apps i had used to do so under 98 (VLC, MPC, Jet Audio). But among the software Dell had included with the PC was a copy of Power DVD, praise the Lord, which i installed and which works (this is important as i sometimes share legal ? to - copy DVD files).

Related to that is the seeming inability with making playlists. Third party apps i had used before like Advanced playlist maker would not work, and in Windows Media player dragging music files into the pane (like it says) in order to make playlist would not work. And when navigating (in WMP or others) to folders in which i had made additional folders, it will not recognize the latter ones. All it will show are folders that originally were there. This is on a E partition of the main NTFS drive.

Under Control Panel (control.exe)> Personalization>Windows color and preferences it would not keep some appearance settings when choosing a custom color for icons. W/98se also sometimes did that, so it runs in the family.

There also appears to be a perplexing problem for some as regards Vista, Intel, and Sata drives on certain mobos, http://www.flyingnerd.com/intel-raid-problem-under-windows-vista/ thttp://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_harddrive&thread.id=124682 . I thought this was my problem in getting another sata drive recognized, but that was because i needed to change the sata DVD drive to sata 4 and put the new drive on 2.

More minor and expected issues are things like software incompatibility, such as allows me (in 9x) to list the folder sizes (http://www.syschat.com/display-size-of-folders-on-drive-937.html). I also miss the Up arrow in navigating folders (i see the new system, but it still necessitates a left folder pane and is much slower).

My main reason for wanting to upgrade was not security (in 7 years of extensive web use i only realized one virus under 9x, and minor incidents of possible spy ware, and i could easily keep an eye on what was running, which wasn't much), but more CPU power (encoding etc.), and the indexing capabilities of XP/Vista. Vista is also far faster and easier in installing hardware than 98 (?Windows cannot find..?), even an old Lex 22 printer, and so far i have had little trouble with running major programs. I used the same external IDE drive enclosure that i sometime use with 98 to transfer programs like like Firefox, Opera, NVU, Thunderbird and OpenOffice from their Program Files and Application Data folders into their respective Vista directories, and then installed them (into the former), and they all work like they did, passwords, and bookmarks, preferences and all (except a minor glitch in Tbrid). Well, praise the Lord, i glad to have a new pc among other things, and am sure i will like Vista more and more. If not perhaps Linux distros like PclinuxOS will continue to evolve.

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I said in the above that i could not get FTP to work in Vista Basic (another on TR thread showed no solution). Well, thank God MS finally released a hotfix that works on both XP and Vista in case your problem is like mine. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/934376

From reading the posting this Microsoft Vista is an employment security system for techs.

Hi, good article !
You can add that
- Vista prices for France are much higher
Vista ultimate => ~550 Euros (735 USD)
- The OEM suppliers very seldom inform customers about the 5 Vista versions (maybe 7 with a Data center and Server versions ?) and attached hardware.
- The control center (firewall etc) is very verbose and you chase you tale to set it right

Hi the most annoying thing i have found with vista home premium is if you leave it long enough, say two weeks without using it, blue screens, unexplained multipull reboots,oh and of course having to keep patching a new system cause of MS in a hurry to get a few squid.
Apart from that must not grumble.

So I click help, and usually that help menu pops up and you can use the index, or search ect.. but nope it says the address is incorrect.. and then I try to connect the bluetooth and it says that settings cannot be saved..

WHAT? I just bought this laptop of course w/vista around feb 14th. It just doesnt make sense and Im not calling their support because I did it twice already and I just got indian people that repeat and repeat what they say.. oh so annoying. and then if I want real help it cost money.. I still have yet to try out the forum. BS I tell you!!

---or filled out a feedback or survey form.As far as corporations go Microsoft is not normal.They're too busy at the moment or they do not understand your question.If you worked for Microsoft how would you personally deal with being sued by the EU or Bill Gates being the wealthiest man on the Earth?There's no school thought at Microsoft---"Let's make everything compatible---Let's standardize it".

My suggestion would be that Vista would allow you to customize the taskbar icons, choosing different colors for each one by a R. click menu, kind of like the Colorful Tabs ext. for Firefox does. And also be able to do a "Lock tab" so that taskbar icons do not get moved. And also a Session Saver, so that the same things running open up again on reboot. I know that "Restore folders.." under Folder Options, but a quicker way would be better.

Because hundreds of apps that you use and love won't work on Vista. If I have to that AND learn a new interface, it might as well be Linux. It's more cost effective.

Diana, if you are a fan of simplicity then you should be running Ubuntu Feisty Fawn, not Vista.

That is the most annoying 'feature' of Vista to me and most graphic professionals. It just have no way to automatically load color profiles. And even when you use workaround third-party profile loader - it resets calibration settings with any UAC prompt or after waking up from sleep mode. Only reboot helps.

Everything described above are just a matter of habbit or can be classified as annoying, not critical. But color management seems to be a real bug with no effective way to fight it.

My big beef is no repair/restore option with the VISTA DVD (at least not how it works in XP) which is a deal breaker for me. Operating Systems do self destruct and I want a fast way to run a quick repair/restore process that will allow me to get my system back up and running. System restore assumes you can boot the OS to at least Start Menu stage and actually perform tasks. Rarely does an OS failure allow this with blue screens , virus , system files being broken , and disk errors, video corruption , or ram write issues etc.It may be solid IT Practice to start anew but that's often just NOT PRACTICAL and I am quite surprised others do not recognise this is a major omission and nag Microsoft accordingly. How would Toyota do if all cars they sold this year could not be repaired once sold ????

It's very, very simple. When XP was all you had, you'd bitch about how easy it was to slide malicious code onto your OS, owing to the fact that you'd insist on running your OS as an admin. How, Microsoft have adopted a years old remedy in their variation of "sudo" and every MS user in Christendom is bitching because now their computer is too hard to use.

As for your annoyances, well, sad really. Slew of options. Confusing power off options. Everything in Vista is customisable to allow you to set up your system according to the way you work. I shut my laptop down maybe once a month. It sleeps the rest of the time, so configuring my system to sleep for every power command is great. Users aren't too stupid to understand. They're just too lazy. As with most things Americanised, if it doesn't do it for you...

As for the boot.ini thing. What planet are you from? Ever tried configuring grub or lilo? That's tricky. The funny thing about operating system advances is they they advance. Strange really. Things change, you learn new things.

I think you should add a few more things to your whine. How about the fact that IPv4 and IPv6 are now built into the TCP/IP stack together, so you get support for both even if you don't use v6. That's annoying. Yet another networking option to confuse dumb people. How about the fact that you need 1 more click to get to your emvironment variables? Or horror of horrors, its harder to undock your quick launch from the task bar. What where Microsoft thinking, imposing such vile evil on their maligned user base?

You're complaining for the sake of complaining. You have a pretty secure OS that you can customise to the nth degree. The biggest problem facing you comes from lazy, incompetent 3rd part developers. And yet the most constructive thing you're capable of writing is a Top 10 List of things that don't matter.

Worst of all, I've ended up lowering myself to your level in response to your inane drivel.

UAC is a kludge of a security hack. It does nothing more than put the onus of security on the users that know nothing about security. UAC simply is not very useful and too many people will just turn it off anyway.

As for Vista being "customizable," I'd rather have it usable out of the box, thank you very much.

With the dual boot thing...Grub is quite easy. At the GUI, I just click next because Grub autodetects my OSs. If I have to do it manually, it's quite easy..simply type in the boot partition for Linux:
root (hd0,0)

Then have grub write itself

setup (hd0)

That's it. The new Vista way is 2 pages of screen shots on TR
http://articles.techrepublic.com.com/5100-10877_11-6157570-2.html

As for the rest of it, I think you need to take a read of what Vista is all about:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

Well that's nice Paul. I can see you are very pleased with yourself. Consider this, while you sit ****, that most users are not that technologically savvy. If you did ANY kind of support work, you would understand the perspective and not adopt the attitude of the elitest power user. But go ahead, feel free to play the role of arrogant ****. It suits you well.

Message was edited by: beth.blakely@...

I work for a technology company but that doesn't mean the users are smart about tecnology. There's a lot of hand holding doing the most basic functions. Paul must not work in a help desk enviroment or even IT for that matter.

I've been using Vista Enterprise now since it's release in Nov. The only annoyance that has not been fixed to my knowledge at least I have this problem and a few others too. I have an Intel ICH7 Sata Raid Controller on my PC. When I try to import video in to my Itunes my Vista will hang. When I reboot My raid HD's get error occured. Then If I am able to get back into Vista (Which has not been successful majority of the time) I need to reset the RAIDED drives back to normal. If I can't get back into Vista I have to rebuild the raid array which most of you know deletes the partition. Luckily for me I use Acronis to recover my partition. Then I have to go through a Vista Repair process which sometime takes anywhere from 1 - 3 times for it to repair. Then I am back up running. Side note: 1 good thing about this. Vista's Repair feature blows away XP's repair feature which is just really a reinstall. Any way all and all I give Vista a 7 on a scale of 1 to 10. It's not all that hard to use. Oh Microsoft however needs to improve on Help feature and Errors that occur. I'd Like to see answers to errors not the dreaded "I'm sorry but we have no answer for that error" That's annoying!

I agree with Madcow, I would like to see more help and support function beefed up.

The only other thing that I can think of is when you try to copy a large file to another machine on the network Vista has that calculating feature were it tries to calculate the time it is going to take to transfer the file; I have seen some pretty slow transfer times.

All in all Vista is not that bad and actually it is a pretty nice OS once you get used to it.

Dude Paul how much did MS pay you for this.
About grub/lilo, you apparently know nothing about them. I'd guess you Googled for 'boot loaders' and got to know that they exist. Congratulations you have proven again that "Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"

Looking at the new Microsoft Office Pro 2007, it's obvious it is designed for Vista. I tried to install it on XP pro but it wouldn't let me. I checked out the requirements on the Microsoft website and although it states that Office 2007 is ok for XP or higher, it doesn't seem to support it. Anyone thinking of purchasing Vista should research first just what software and applications are out there that Vista will support. Me, I think I'll be staying with XP for a little while longer.

Office 2007 installed and runs OK on my XP Home. It's slower to launch the apps than Office 2003, but every function I've tried runs fine. Not sure why it didn't work on the XP Pro. Maybe RAM or HDD free space issue?

Office 2007 runs just fine on XP - I've been using it for quite a while now.

I have installed Office 2007 Pro on 5 machines at my office running XP pro and I have not had a sinlge problem with them. The only change I made was changing the default saved document type to 97-2003 so that my users don't have to select it for themselves, at least until I either get Office 2k7 installed on all my machines or download the viewer for those that don't have it.

What business benefit did you get from your investment? Did you do as you'd buying a new forklift or tooling machine? Weighing pros and cons, including do we really need it, or do the supplier need the sale more than we need the equipment?
Are your staff more effective now than before, or did you line Microsoft's pockets?

So were you trying to install it on a PC that did not belong to you - say a Uni or College PC that you need admin access to?????

As simple and straight forward as this is; these are the EXACT 10 reasons why I'm not moving my users off XP until support ends.

There is only one complaint I have about Vista and the is the Americans have the cheek to go on about the price!

http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Vista-Ultimate-VERSION/dp/B000HCTYTE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8273434-4394543?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1175160618&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Microsoft-Windows-Vista-Ultimate-PC/dp/B000KCIA5A/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/203-6247853-7711137?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1175160559&sr=8-1

Please stop the complaining!

120 sheets!

My Paint shop pro 8 works fine in Vista Ultimate, I use it a lot and have not had any problems.
If they kept everything the same what would happen to keep the computer business from being boring??
Give it a chance...heard same kind of moaning when XP came out

I have a 10 year old computer with Windows XP, My complaint is that my hardware is extinct, I want a new computer, but guess what!! To get a new computer, I AM FORCED GET VISTA !!!! Sure, I can wipe the hard drive and install XP, but that voids the warranty (oh, yes it does), as now I have not maintained the OME !! (Yes, I know, there are computers out there with no OS installed, but not with the hardware I want and require.)

As of this point in time, you can still get XP. I just ordered a business notebook from Gateway and it's coming with XP Pro on it.

I work at Community College and we have been unsucessfully with Vista and IE working with our wireless network. It does however work with Firefox..???? Any ideas

Just bought some new laptops with Visa Business and the wireless worked great. Assigned an IP and put in password for network and logged right in. opened Internet explorer and surfed away.

skype 3 microphone does not work
orbicam does not work
lots of things bring up "has stopped working"
slow file copies
very slow boot
very slow shutdown
no or bad drivers
vendors, not Microsoft, are to blame for everything which does not work

With VISTA around who needs LINUX?

Had my first run in with Vista when I had to set up our Busiiness Manager's machine. Don't like it at all. Couldn't install some software (it recommended I upgrade the OS to Win2k or XP) and I know that's the software's fault but it's vital software. I ended up installing a virtual machine and putting XP on that.
I agree with all 10 annoyances listed in the article. It takes longer to do simple things, and there's no need for MS to have done that.
Also I had great trouble getting it to connect to the www. (Still have problems.)
But my main concern once set up was that slooow startup and shutdown. On a new, fast machine, it was much slower than XP or Linux on my 3-year-old machine running at 1/3 of the speed and without the benefit of dual core.

"With LINUX around, who needs VISTA?"

That my friend is wrong! - Linux is Open Source and freely modifiable by you -- to make things that don't work the way you want them to WORK -- try that with windows~ All for the price of 0.00 dollars out of your pocket! Long live Linux - Ubuntu/ Kubuntu rules!

People that confused and who can't read about the different flavors of Vista probably shouldn't own a computer. You mentioned XP had four, one more from Vista will really throw everyone off.

Also, the retail pricing between Vista and XP are the same. It has not gone up one penny. Feature for feature XP Home is comparible to Vista Home Basic, both at $199. Windows XP Pro is comparible to Vista Business, both at $299.