Discussion on:

Restoring XP backups in Vista

Unencrypted Files backed up from within XP but will be unable to recover Encrypted Backup's that have a copy of the Private Encryption key saved with them. Right?

This makes it much more important for M$ to push out far more information on the XP EFS than they currently are as so many people are lacking even a basic understanding of Windows EFS that they are loosing their data at an alarming rate and what is worse is that very few Writers are willing to tackle this expensive topic when things go wrong.

M$ makes it way to easy to deploy EFS but does very little to educate the users who do employ this protection method as they are only told that they are making their files safe and secure but there is no information at the time in how to backup both the encrypted Data and Encryption key so that in the event of a Failure that the data can be recovered.

This will not hurt many IT pros but judging by the number of requests for help to recover Encrypted Files in the Q&A Section of TR it is something that needs looking at by both the writers to warn the end users and M$ to protect the End Users from their own Stupidity. After all there isn't even a manual to read now so there is the perfectly good excuse that I wasn't told anything better and was told that this would benefit me by M$ when I was looking at it.

Sure you can save the backup in Unencrypted Form but once you have encrypted the data the End Users tend to think that they need to maintain to use EFS to keep their data secure and are not given any direct information on backing up the Private Encryption Key so they don't and when something goes wrong they loose access to all their data. They can not even be accused of not RTFM as there was never anything there to read to begin with.

Interesting that M$ hasn't though of a solution to this problem as even if the PEK is Backed Up there is no way to open the data when the XP Pro computer fails and is replaced with a Vista computer.

Col

they can and should be accused of not RTFM because there's a manual called "Internet". Now Microsoft is guilty for people being stupid and lazy to not know the consequences of what they're doing? I study Applied Cryptography and Biometrics and I would know what to do, if people don't they shouldn't mess with it without knowing the consequences. Don't be lazy and research, Microsoft is not a charity organization.

Does M$ both Make it so easy to apply and encourages people to apply EFS by telling then on screen that it will help protect their data?

While I agree that M$ isn't a charity they are also making it way to east to cause trouble that isn't easily fixed.

Why have the way to do something like this On Screen but then to find out how to save the situation which incidentally can not be done if your XP computer fails and you move to Vista on the new one Buried deep in the M$ Knowledge Base where most people meaning End Users don't know where to look for the solution when something goes wrong?

M$ makes it way to easy for this to occur and takes no responsibility for their own actions in allowing the On Screen Prompts to explain just how much better this option is over not using it.

When M$ was supplying DOS in all it's forms they provided a decent manual. Then when 95 hit the stands the manual got smaller and this has continued till today where you get nothing with your rental Software that you Pay M$ for but just how many people realise that they don't own it and have only paid for the right to use something as long as M$ deems that it is a useful application?

Currently with the EULA there is nothing preventing M$ from demanding that everyone using an old copy of Windows remove it and return the Install CD to M$ except the costs involved. With WGA this problem has now been overcome so what's stopping M$ from deactivating all products fitted with WGA when they decide that they are no longer willing to support it or better still decide that it's no longer of any use to the population?

Or that they need to increase their sales of a new OS so they deactivate all older versions to force the Great Unwashed Masses to Upgrade?

Col

I am NOT a student of Applied Cryptography, though I spent many years as a "trained killer" protecting Army Crypto from Soviet and E German agencies.
I merely ran scheduled back-ups from my PC to an external hard drive, expecting to be able to access that data should there ever be a major problem.
Now I HAVE suffered that problem and want to know how I can correct my lack of knowledge so that I can access the vital data I need.
When I came to Techrepublic for what looked like the answer, I found that the information did not actually help me. If you know just what steps I should take then I really would like to be told please. I don't have a manual of any kind and this "forum" is like an intro page for me - now are there any useful "chapters" you can indicate for me, or are you going to opt out after all, despite your apparent knowledge of the topic?
Yours hopefully,
John, York, UK

with the Hiren's Boot CD available here

http://tinyurl.com/fwa22

You can then install XP Pro to the unused Partition and your Backup Utility and copy your data back to the XP Platform and then across to Vista where you can back it up again either using your Backup Program or Windows Backup or better still don't backup just copy across to an external HDD then remove the XP Partition with Hiren's and enlarge the Vista Partition out to take up all the HDD again you will have all your data back.

Actually this would be much easier to perform on an XP computer but if you do not have access to one you'll have to Dual Boot with your existing computer into either XP or Vista and use XP to recover your data.

When it comes to backups unless you have several computers to work with it's better to just copy the data and don't bother with any Backup Utility as there are always potential problems with changes to OS or other things when you really need the data.

Col

Thanks, another helpful reply, much appreciated - and in the style I had expected of the Techrepublic users.
I'm not sure I can manage the install/boot of XP from the X partition but probably can - however, if the bkf files were produced by Disckeeper than I'll be stumped as it was installed on my old hard drive by techs when I had a repair done last year. I have a trial version on my Vista partition but I believe it is only good for one installation without paying a lot more for a business version.
I'm now setting up a reconditioned XP PC instead, as I believe my old hard drive is still ok (fingers crossed) and has all my XP data on it. All I need to do (poor gullible fool) is to work out how to connect it to my reconditioned tower (which aleady has 2x 300Gb Hard drives in it). This may resolve my current problem by avoiding it!!
But from now on I won't be backing up - I WILL be copying instead!
Thanks

To a USB Enclosure and copy your data off there. If you had a password on the drive to stop anyone opening Windows you'll need to take ownership of the files by following the directions here

http://tinyurl.com/3aw7

If the Files where encrypted you'll need to save the encryption key by following the directions here and then mounting that key on the new XP install but this only applies to XP Pro.

http://tinyurl.com/3cd8hf

Peer Mail me if you have any problems.

Col

Thanks Hal, that was my first intended solution to the problem after someone on CNet suggested it. I failed to find one in my first local search and had put it to one side once I thought I would be able to restore my Back Ups.
I used XP Pro but with no Password or encryption as it was only my home PC (which no-one else used).
I'll have another try at that. My wife and I run a City Centre Candle Shop and we're open 7 days a week so I always run out of time (hey - don't we all!!!!!!!!!!)
John

I have read several articles and help on this topic now, but nothing I have followed has given me any access to my backed up XP Files (ext .bkf).
I was very pleased to follow this article, I've just hopefully completed it twice, but the files "restored" to a folder on my Vista Desktop are STILL inaccessible. I uninstalled a previous version of this NT program, followed everything to the letter, referring every time to the screen shots etc, and in each attempt I was left with useless Backup files that are still clumped in a folder, in one lump, with a .bkf extension that I cannot get into.
Maybe it was a previous version of DiscKeeper that I know was on my XP machine, would that have been running the back-ups instead of plain old XP itself?
I now have a newer version of Disckeeper on this Win Vista machine, would that help?
I am still stumped and very angry at Microsoft and the other software firms for allowing this to happen. I really thought that by taking regular backups to an external drive (as well as the copies on the XP hard drive) I was doing the right thing in case my PC died - which it did in February.
I need access to my accounts - can anyone help please?
I don't like Vista (mainly because of this - and the fact that ZoneLabs won't run Zone Alarm on it so I've had to pay more and go back to Symantec) but I've now got too much downloaded material to want to revert to XP Pro again - I could install it as I have the CDs.
John Reed, York, UK

Thanks for trying to help everyone with this article, it was easy to follow.
I just feel that the end section is misleading as it glosses over how to access the files one has "restored".
Every time I try to click on them the NT Restore program starts up all over again and this does nothing to help - it merely adds to the density of the red haze!!!
Just HOW do we access the file, which still has a .bkf extension!????
John, York, UK

After you've installed the Windows NT Backup - Restore Utility, click the Start button > click Windows NT Backup Restore - Utility, and then click Ntbackup-RestoreUtility.

You can either use the restore wizard, or manually, on the Restore and Manage Media tab, right-click File and select Catalog File. You can then browse for the required .BKF file, and restoring is easy from there.

Thanks for the post but it still does not help me to actually access the files.
I have already restored the backed up .bkf file from my external hard drive to my hard disk several times using this Resore program and have just gone through the whole palaver again. It still leaves me with a bkf file that nothing I have will open. The file still has a .bkf extension and the NT Resore program just does the same thing over and over again without getting any nearer to my being able to get at the documents etc in the .bkf package.
As you can gather it is VERY frustrating and has cost me a lot of wasted time, and nervous energy!!
How do I get the .bkf file open? The NT Resore will just put a copy in whatever place I choose, but I still can't open it!

...what you have is a backup of a backup file. If that is indeed the case, then you will have to perform the restore operation twice.

So you've restored the bkf file from your backup media to your hard disk. So now you need to run the Windows NT Backup - Restore Utility again, only this time you'll select the bkf file that you have on your hard disk. Once you do that, you should be able to see and restore all of the individual files.

This article was GREAT!!!! Crystal clear and worked perfectly for me. Thank you!

Removeable Storage Manager is not available in the WIndows 7 Build 7000 beta. Not telling if they plan to leave it out of 7, or add it a bit later in the beta process.