talk about grammatical/ spelling errors
enthusiastic is the correct word there!!!!
just my $.02
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Not that many IT pros have free-floating enthusiasm. Those folks are in Sales. 
I think your goal should be to convey specific enthusiasm for your role(s) and achievements. You do that by briefly listing some success stories with quantified results.
What I would *not* do is to add adjectives to convey enthusiasm.
Just tell your story(ies) concisely, always targeted to the employer who'll be reading this version of your resume.
I think your goal should be to convey specific enthusiasm for your role(s) and achievements. You do that by briefly listing some success stories with quantified results.
What I would *not* do is to add adjectives to convey enthusiasm.
Just tell your story(ies) concisely, always targeted to the employer who'll be reading this version of your resume.
1) Bold letter or font size> 14
2) Describe yourself as "nuclear scientist" while you are 5 years in the same position, same company
3) Talk big about your achievements that are consider "normal" in the company you are trying to hit.
4) Provide to little info in a try to cover weak points. Normaly to little info is been ignored.
5) Be sure that you send it to the right person.
2) Describe yourself as "nuclear scientist" while you are 5 years in the same position, same company
3) Talk big about your achievements that are consider "normal" in the company you are trying to hit.
4) Provide to little info in a try to cover weak points. Normaly to little info is been ignored.
5) Be sure that you send it to the right person.
An IT staff who thinks they are above writing and "typing" because that doesnt relate to the job.. get real ok? I will take that test all day, it can prove competence in writing reports (and you cannot possibly be an IT pro without writing a report in 2007), how skilled you are in summarizing without fluff. How well you can present a topic in the most concise and effective way. And, be in compliance with the ever growing documentation management.
TESTING...
The test is fine. The complaints about defining acronyms...Oh my. Thats like a doctor who says... Dont ask me to explain how I do a rhinoplasty, Ill research it and present my final answer. Know your stuff. Plain and simple. If doctors can memorize what they know, then a true " computer / IT expert" isnt going to complain about some poor little acronyms. Anticipate the question, and be able to respond. Plain and simple.
I can define things from memory, in my own words, and be able to explain that concept to a person without my technical ability.
The suit topic. I like it. Be able to fit comfortably into the chosen attire. Look presentable and be at ease. Learn to go with the flow and ease up in front of pressure.
But I've had 14 jobs.. GREAT! Now tell me which of those jobs related to any technology that is in mainstream use. Hmmm, 4 jobs. Good. Thats all that should be there. Tailor your jobs to match the bait and hook scheme of getting in the door. YOu want to prove how much experience you have? Get their attention with the two pager, have a nice cover letter that shows your ability and be able to explain yourself concisly in an interview.
TESTING...
The test is fine. The complaints about defining acronyms...Oh my. Thats like a doctor who says... Dont ask me to explain how I do a rhinoplasty, Ill research it and present my final answer. Know your stuff. Plain and simple. If doctors can memorize what they know, then a true " computer / IT expert" isnt going to complain about some poor little acronyms. Anticipate the question, and be able to respond. Plain and simple.
I can define things from memory, in my own words, and be able to explain that concept to a person without my technical ability.
The suit topic. I like it. Be able to fit comfortably into the chosen attire. Look presentable and be at ease. Learn to go with the flow and ease up in front of pressure.
But I've had 14 jobs.. GREAT! Now tell me which of those jobs related to any technology that is in mainstream use. Hmmm, 4 jobs. Good. Thats all that should be there. Tailor your jobs to match the bait and hook scheme of getting in the door. YOu want to prove how much experience you have? Get their attention with the two pager, have a nice cover letter that shows your ability and be able to explain yourself concisly in an interview.
the world is not one single legal system so please do not publish stuff about "details whih the employer is not legally entitled to ask for" such as your sex, marital status, etc... - In most countries you supply a photo with your resume, in one island nation you even supply a passport or id-card copy!!
Not to seem provincial or biased, but the intended audience for this article was probably U.S. I.T. workers. I suppose it could have been written slightly differently (e.g. "such as your sex, marital status, etc for U.S. companies").
BTW, "fewsdr, CC" must be an awfully insignificant location. Neither Google nor MapQuest were able to find them.
BTW, "fewsdr, CC" must be an awfully insignificant location. Neither Google nor MapQuest were able to find them.
The use of bulk-produced resumes that don't take into account the actual employer they're presented to is at fault for both these comments' issues.
Any potential employee NEEDS TO KNOW what is legal in any given hiring environment and tune their resume appropriately. Bulk printing of resumes may look cool but demonstrates a lack of understanding of the workplace the individual wishes to join.
Any potential employee NEEDS TO KNOW what is legal in any given hiring environment and tune their resume appropriately. Bulk printing of resumes may look cool but demonstrates a lack of understanding of the workplace the individual wishes to join.
I am the one who made the point about "don't provide information that we are not legally entitled to ask".
Of course the world is a very big place and customs and legal issues change from place to place, but that is part of the point.
If you are wanting to work here in my country, then you should familiarize yourself with the laws and customs of the place, at a minimum.
This is not to say I don't bend. I had one candidate tell me on the phone that as she is a muslim female it is not her tradition to shake hands with men. I was fine with that.
But don't display your ignorance of local laws on your resume if you want consideration. It is a red flag. Take the time to do your homework and find out what is acceptable.
James
Of course the world is a very big place and customs and legal issues change from place to place, but that is part of the point.
If you are wanting to work here in my country, then you should familiarize yourself with the laws and customs of the place, at a minimum.
This is not to say I don't bend. I had one candidate tell me on the phone that as she is a muslim female it is not her tradition to shake hands with men. I was fine with that.
But don't display your ignorance of local laws on your resume if you want consideration. It is a red flag. Take the time to do your homework and find out what is acceptable.
James
Big companies like mine take such legal issues VERY seriously, as we risk being seen as "deep pockets" by lawyers. I have to turn in my interview notes to HR after interviewing each candidate -- and on the first page of the form I must use is a place where I must certify that I have viewed our online training module on interviews within the previous six months. Our training has a LONG list of questions we may not ask.
James
I hire fairly regularly (UK) and there are things that I cannot or would not ask about. However, I'm not sure why I would be turned off a CV if someone mentioned that for instance they held a religious belief or were married with children. It might not be terribly relevant but so long as it doesnt take up too much space its not going to offend me.
In a spirit of seeking ot learn and understand, why is this a no-no for you?
G
I hire fairly regularly (UK) and there are things that I cannot or would not ask about. However, I'm not sure why I would be turned off a CV if someone mentioned that for instance they held a religious belief or were married with children. It might not be terribly relevant but so long as it doesnt take up too much space its not going to offend me.
In a spirit of seeking ot learn and understand, why is this a no-no for you?
G
Most of the paranoia that surrounds personal information on resumes is based on various legal interpretations of the laws in the US. The laws specifically prohibit an employer from asking questions about age, race, religion, marrital status, physical handicaps and gender. The government even has a specific watchdog agency (EEOC) that is tasked with tracking how well the company is doing toward being "fair" with all applicants.
As a bit of overreacion (in my view), resumes that are submitted that make it "obvious" what the answers to the forbidden questions are, are treated as "poison". The EEOC, in an audit, is likely to assume it is the employer's fault that the information got on the resume. So to spare the possibility, many legal and HR departments have a generic prohibition against using resumes that reveal too much.
Of course, some things are obvious even when they are not. For example, age is easily guessed at because most people include the year they graduated from college. Since most people in the US graduate from college when they are 22, it doesn't take much to figure out how old they likely are. Also, it would be very rare to find a black male with the name of "Britney". The fact that it is "possible" that these guesses are wrong seems to be enough excuse to overlook them. If is only when the applicant makes it obvious does that make some companies squimish about hiring.
As a bit of overreacion (in my view), resumes that are submitted that make it "obvious" what the answers to the forbidden questions are, are treated as "poison". The EEOC, in an audit, is likely to assume it is the employer's fault that the information got on the resume. So to spare the possibility, many legal and HR departments have a generic prohibition against using resumes that reveal too much.
Of course, some things are obvious even when they are not. For example, age is easily guessed at because most people include the year they graduated from college. Since most people in the US graduate from college when they are 22, it doesn't take much to figure out how old they likely are. Also, it would be very rare to find a black male with the name of "Britney". The fact that it is "possible" that these guesses are wrong seems to be enough excuse to overlook them. If is only when the applicant makes it obvious does that make some companies squimish about hiring.
yeah, not to sound immature, but that was a very intelligent put down doc.
i would guess about 70-80% of people who use this forum are based in the U.S and therefore do abide to one single legal system.
sorry there, fez, but you're outnumbered on this.
i went to a school where they would only send out your resume (to their employer database) if you stayed within the school's set of resume criteria, which i didn't like one bit and disagreed very heatedly w/the career placement advisor. didn't mean you couldn't send out resumes on the side. i got my job, though, through the school's database, so i guess it worked out fine.
i would guess about 70-80% of people who use this forum are based in the U.S and therefore do abide to one single legal system.
sorry there, fez, but you're outnumbered on this.
i went to a school where they would only send out your resume (to their employer database) if you stayed within the school's set of resume criteria, which i didn't like one bit and disagreed very heatedly w/the career placement advisor. didn't mean you couldn't send out resumes on the side. i got my job, though, through the school's database, so i guess it worked out fine.
If you were applying to a job in Japan, would you not take the time to find out what is expected on a resume in Japan?
If you really wanted the job you would.
If you are a half hearted job searcher convinced that the world is against you, you might not, and then complain that they were prejudiced against you.
Many employment laws by the way in the US and Canada are state by state(or province by province) so you might have to adjust it based on the state.
I usually fine tune the resume for each job anyway.
James
If you really wanted the job you would.
If you are a half hearted job searcher convinced that the world is against you, you might not, and then complain that they were prejudiced against you.
Many employment laws by the way in the US and Canada are state by state(or province by province) so you might have to adjust it based on the state.
I usually fine tune the resume for each job anyway.
James
I'm intrigued. Despite Dr_Zinj's inappropriate comment, indeed, "Fewsdr CC" shows up nowhere that I can find, either. Is CC the Cocos Islands? If so, I could find no named community, but there is an ISP so somebody has to be operating it. Is that you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_(Keeling)_Islands
Have no idea where Fewsdr is on the island. There are some links to maps in wiki.
The link didn't come through right cuz of the parentheses. Copy and paste the whole line or go to wikipedia or yahoo or google and search for "keeling islands".
Have no idea where Fewsdr is on the island. There are some links to maps in wiki.
The link didn't come through right cuz of the parentheses. Copy and paste the whole line or go to wikipedia or yahoo or google and search for "keeling islands".
Wow - there's nothing like kicking off a discussion with a huge thread that's totally off topic! I think it's agreed that any job search should take into account the cultural norms of the environment where you're looking.
Can we get on topic now?
Can we get on topic now?
I think you hit the really big problems with resumes. I also think that those same problems are listed on virtually every article or book on effective resume writing. However, I don't think that those sufficiently describe the reasons why resumes don't get very far.
How about extending the list to some other problems:
1. Job titles that are non-descript. Just what is a Business Analyst III or a Senior Lead Technical Software Technician? Just because HR says that was your job title, does not mean that should be the name you present to the world.
2. Resumes that have a job history that goes back the dawn of creation. Technical positions only need 10 years. Management positions may need 15 years.
3. Unexplained acronyms. If it is not a "common" acronym, then don't use it. Also, spelling out an acronym is not much better. You really need to explain it without the jargon.
4. Long strings of adjectives. If you are looking for a tech-writer position, have at it, but the rest of us can't read that mumbo-jumbo.
5. Job histories that "look" like you can't keep a job. If you are a self employed consultant -- don't list every encounter as a different job. Your job was being a consultant, some of your successes are the encounters.
How about extending the list to some other problems:
1. Job titles that are non-descript. Just what is a Business Analyst III or a Senior Lead Technical Software Technician? Just because HR says that was your job title, does not mean that should be the name you present to the world.
2. Resumes that have a job history that goes back the dawn of creation. Technical positions only need 10 years. Management positions may need 15 years.
3. Unexplained acronyms. If it is not a "common" acronym, then don't use it. Also, spelling out an acronym is not much better. You really need to explain it without the jargon.
4. Long strings of adjectives. If you are looking for a tech-writer position, have at it, but the rest of us can't read that mumbo-jumbo.
5. Job histories that "look" like you can't keep a job. If you are a self employed consultant -- don't list every encounter as a different job. Your job was being a consultant, some of your successes are the encounters.
Just some of my thoughts ( though I keep getting home too late at night to work on my resume these days )
1) I was told about internal job openings from an person who is doing the interviewing. But to find them in order to request an internal transfer to them, I had to wade through 30 non-specific job descriptions. I had to match the job to the requester, as the description had very little to do with the actual job.
2) I put experience last or next to last, even though I've got 20 years of professional experience ( more if you count school/home before then ). Why? They want to know first what you can for them when you walk in the door. Who cares what you did for the last company unless it applies directly to what they will be asking you to do.
3) Agreed.
4) Agreed.
5) I am unsure on this one. I change employers every 3-4 years because I have yet to find a company that lets me move to a position I like after I get bored with the initial one. They always have some excuse, but it usually boils down to "we need you here." So then I leave. Oh, getting a decent raise is also a motivation to leave
Good luck with your job searches!
1) I was told about internal job openings from an person who is doing the interviewing. But to find them in order to request an internal transfer to them, I had to wade through 30 non-specific job descriptions. I had to match the job to the requester, as the description had very little to do with the actual job.
2) I put experience last or next to last, even though I've got 20 years of professional experience ( more if you count school/home before then ). Why? They want to know first what you can for them when you walk in the door. Who cares what you did for the last company unless it applies directly to what they will be asking you to do.
3) Agreed.
4) Agreed.
5) I am unsure on this one. I change employers every 3-4 years because I have yet to find a company that lets me move to a position I like after I get bored with the initial one. They always have some excuse, but it usually boils down to "we need you here." So then I leave. Oh, getting a decent raise is also a motivation to leave
Good luck with your job searches!
When you have a longer career and/or life of contracting. Mine is 5 pages. And that is paraphrased. Care to give me a format or secret that I can put 24+ years of experence (14 different jobs) into one page that fits all?
I have 22 years experience, and almost as many jobs.
But in all likelyhood I am not looking to hire you for the skills you used 24 years ago.
You don't have to list 24 years experience, but you can refer to it.
Personally, I like to see the last 10 years or if you changed careers since then, the jobs since you changed.
I would not be sending out 5 page resumes, unless you are applying for a scientific research position (where they like to see what you have published).
Two pages is pretty standard.
James
But in all likelyhood I am not looking to hire you for the skills you used 24 years ago.
You don't have to list 24 years experience, but you can refer to it.
Personally, I like to see the last 10 years or if you changed careers since then, the jobs since you changed.
I would not be sending out 5 page resumes, unless you are applying for a scientific research position (where they like to see what you have published).
Two pages is pretty standard.
James
Do you have a suggested format... or something else in mind.
The 5 pages is all relevant to my current career. Which does show some gaps (unrelated to resume presented). The format I have for the 5 pages comes from an older format used... you guessed it, over 20 years ago.
I am sure anyone would love to hear what to expect in a 2 page resume.
The 5 pages is all relevant to my current career. Which does show some gaps (unrelated to resume presented). The format I have for the 5 pages comes from an older format used... you guessed it, over 20 years ago.
I am sure anyone would love to hear what to expect in a 2 page resume.
A suggestion
Brownie Mix Consulting, Principle & Owner, 1990 - present
+ Consulting practice specializing in Cisco networks, router configurations and ....
+ Retained by 12 small and 2 medium sized companies to ...
+ Key accomplishments
- Contracted to head team of 12 in installing 400 station network in a tight deadline of ...
- Created ...
- Built ...
List of clients
+ RJ Bodyshop
+ Hydroelectric Inc
+ ...
Brownie Mix Consulting, Principle & Owner, 1990 - present
+ Consulting practice specializing in Cisco networks, router configurations and ....
+ Retained by 12 small and 2 medium sized companies to ...
+ Key accomplishments
- Contracted to head team of 12 in installing 400 station network in a tight deadline of ...
- Created ...
- Built ...
List of clients
+ RJ Bodyshop
+ Hydroelectric Inc
+ ...
I've tried this - for a guy with 7 years experience, it's ok....but not for us "seasoned" professionals (read that: old guys).
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