Discussion on:

Need a vacation to recover from your vacation?

I'm in the same boat where we are encouraged take vacation or risk losing our vacation accrual (capped at 80 hours). We have three boys that are very energetic and are not conducive to a "relaxing" vacation.

What I have found to be more beneficial is to take mini-vacations from the office without my wife or my boys. In other words, taking some actual "me" time has really helped with the stress.

Twice a week, over lunch, I take an Aikido class in which my wife and kids do not participate. This is my time and I attend the classes religiously because I won't get any "me" time if I don't. I get a good workout and, for at least two hours a week, I get to forget all about work, finances, and all of the other daily stressors in my life. It helped me so much that I recommended the "mini" vacation to my staff. Those that have scheduled "me" time during the week have given me positive feedback about the results they have experienced with stress and productivity.

My sampling is very small and does not constitute and real scientific measure of productivity gains due to taking "mini" vacations but if you try it, it might also work for you.

I speed all my time in the field, so a vacation is essential and comsists of sleeping, eating and fishing, for no less than 7 consecutive days. This week and the next two I'm offshore in Cook Inlet, outside Anchorage, Alaska. On and off drilling rigs all day gets pretty tiring and with 20 hours of daylight and growing longer everyday, it's hard to sleep. Even with blackout curtains my body knows there's daylight wasteing. I try to get an early evening nap and go fishing around 9PM. Vacation is just that, no cell phone, computer or outside distractions. Wife stays home and knows where I am and how to reach me, but it takes a couple hours.

Toni Bowers (author of the original article):

Don't blog and try to debunk trained psychologists' recommendations using "common sense" based on just your own experiences. There IS a difference between employees with and without vacations.

Sometimes you can't quite see the forest for the trees. It's not about giving an employee an assignment and watching their performance from start to finish. In that type of situation, sure, you're going to be as productive as you're capable of being because the situation calls for it.

You have to look at long-term overall performance. What do the employees do in those times when the boss isn't around or there's only a little work to be done? There will always be exceptions, but if an employee has had a recent vacation and is not influenced negatively by a no-vacations-ever employee, then you normally see those employees being more proactive in working on things instead of screwing off. The overworked employee will view this in-between/slow time as an opportunity for their own vacation and will find some way to load Halo on their machines or spend hours shopping or goofing off in some way.

The cost of that goof-off time adds up more than the cost of paying for an employee's vacation.

Consider this - there are major industrial European countries that work less hours overall but remain just as productive. It's been tested over and over again by sociologists and demographers. Plus, those same countries can get up to a couple months of vacation time per year (although my guess is that they ration it) and still be very productive. It lets them spend more time with their families, which is good for the family, and good for overall health.

Final note - if being on vacation from work just means that you're dealing with a screaming toddler 24/7, then you might want to think about your role as a parent and your attitude towards family. I have plenty of friends who would kill to have time off to spend time with their kids, screaming or not.

After my son started school, I used to take my vacations in one-day implements. Husband was at work, kid at school. All I did was eat junk food and watch old movies all day. It was amazing how much that little break would help.

Ok, its been a long time since i worked that side of the ocean..so tell me:

1. James - How many days paid vacation leave is standard in Canada?
2. Whoever - How many days paid vacation leave is standard in US ?

Ireland is great. For full time employees, you get 20 days paid leave time a year. Its Law. If your employer won't let you take them, its trouble for them.
In my current job, I get 28 days paid leave, however 3 of those I have to take on certain days. Two over Christmas, and one on Good Friday.
So i generally have a 2 week break in the summer. I take a package holiday..just pay pack and go, not much stress.
Then I have a week off at Christmas, which only costs me 1-2 days leave. SO i usually have 10 days to take during the rest of the year.
Usually take a week break in spring or autumn, the other 5 days I use here and there. My favorite way to use those is book in a massage, then get my hair done, then go for lunch..do a bit of shopping and then stop for a drink, then go home and cook a really nice meal.

And this is why i will NEVER work in canada again

My current employer is notoriously stingy. I started the job with 10 days vacation plus three "floaters". Floaters are the way of getting equalization for the fact that some provinces have more statuatory holidays than others.

But other companies I have worked for give you three weeks vacation to start.

I'm now up to 15 days plus 3 floats. After 10 years I will get 20 days, after 20, 25 days. That doesn't count stat holidays - New years day (and if it falls on a weekend we still get the Monday), Good Friday, Victoria Day, Canada Day, Labour Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

So its not as bad as it may appear.

James

We earn PTO (Paid Time off) at a rate of .096 hours for every worked hour. From this is your vacation, holidays, and non-FMLA leave time.

Then their's EIT (Extended Ill Time). This can only be used if you fill out a FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) form and are having Surgery or an extended leave after a hospital stay. Plastic surgery is not included. Needless to say, it's almost more pain than it's worth to request it. I took great joy in using my EIT for a surgery, coming back for a week, then taking vacation.

at 0.096 hours PTO for every hour worked, at 49 hours per week and 50 weeks per year, that is 24 paid days off per year. (Year, I know, 52 weeks minus 24 days is not 50 weeks. I'm off the clock, you figure it out.)

You also have to take your "paid" holidays out of that. So, New Year's, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas all come out of that. Luckily, I'm in a department where we can make up the time by working extra hours and saving our PTO, but other departments can't, and are actually closed extra days, forcing their employees to take 2 or 3 days of PTO for the one holiday. It all works out in the end, but can be a pain to figure out.

Oh, and the work week is 40 hours per week. You can't accrue PTO on overtime hours.

I get 14 days vacation, 14 days sick, 10 paid holidays, and off Christmas-New Years. You get another week after 3 years and then every 5 years after. I don't know how standard that is since I have worked jobs that give you 1 week vacation and a few holidays and then you get another week after 3 years.

This convinces me never to work in the US or Canada. I have 30 work days (25 legal) of holiday (since I started), so equals to 6 weeks a year, plus bank and public holidays. I usually take days around public and bank holidays, thus using up less days and in the end having seven weeks. Take Easter for ex. Good Friday = Bank holiday. Easter Monday = Public holiday. So 8 days make 2 weeks off. Also if a public holiday falls on a Saturday or Sunday (no-work days) I can choose a replacement day off. Oh, I live in Luxembourg (small country in Europe for those who do not know).

We have friends in Germany and they get about the same as raoullux. It's time companies and employees in the US get more time AND USE the time! Time off is just as important as money! People need time off to recharge.

You're right. I used to be like the other over-stressed people in this thread. Then one of the start-ups I worked for hit, and I had the money to take a real sabbatical -- a whole year off, traveling around the world. For the first time ever, I was exposed to life and work in countries where 60-80 hour workweeks aren't "expected", and where business DOES accommodate people's real lives. In the 10 years since, I've gone back to working hard when I'm in the office -- and turning off the cell phone, leaving the laptop at home, and enjoying life when I'm not. I still earn a six-figure income, and my blood pressure at 53 is the same as it was when I was 25. I look and feel much younger than my peers, and it's simply because I finally learned the joys of downtime. By the way, I negotiate my vacation time before I accept a new job -- they meet my terms, or I don't take the job. My husband is a university professor, so we take our time off for 8 weeks in the summer, plus 2 weeks at Christmas, and 1 week in the spring and fall -- for a total of 12 weeks (60 work days) a year. I trade cash (lower salary) for the time off. It's a wonderful compromise, and I highly recommend it to anyone!

Much of the world thinks the US is really lazy. And US tourists... For those who wonder why the guy in the geek Hawaiian shirt and shorts with white socks and sandals really seems to be mentally damaged, I offer the apology that his brain has been in a drill press for the past year....

I don't think the perception is that the US is lazy.
My perception would be that despite working longer hours, not taking holidays, etc some people would be less productive than counterparts who take more holidays and work less hours.
More time at work does not equate to doing more.

Drill press..hey if a Hawaiian shirt, socks and sandals works..why not

that makes me want to move to another country.

.. in some companies is classed as the same thing.

My first job with a startup in Seattle gave me something like 15 days, which could be taken as sick time or vacation time.

The trouble with this of course, is that people will come into the office sick in order to save vacation.

OTOH the attitude towards work hours is very relaxed out in the North West. It's common practice to take a day off work without anyone noticing.

So long as you don't miss any meetings and you meet your schedules, people will generally turn a blind eye to where you are working (golf course, baseball game, etc).

So we may get less vacation time, but I'll trade that for the freedom.

BTW, I contract now, so vacation time is 99% my choice.

Les.

That just confirms my thoughts: I am fine where I am. Sick time and vacation time is completely separate. When I am off for sickness that does not impact my paid holidays. Also if I get sick during a vacation I send in a medical certificate and my vacation time gets cancelled to be replaced by sick time. This does not involve any loss in salary.

i benifited from trom that a few years back..took 3 days off for something, but got sick during it, got a note from doctor and ended up being off work for a few extra days and didn't loose any leave days.

a lot of people ask me why i don't move back to canada because its so much cheaper etc.. i laugh..no way..never..the EU has some great employment rules so i'm going to stay this side of the world!

There's no mandated minimum vacation days or paid time off of any kind, excepting the Family Medical Leave Act, in the US. You pretty much get whatever your employer decides is his policy. So theoretically you can be working any and all holidays.
An average vacation policy is one to two weeks paid leave after one year of employment. Five years is the usual break point for adding another week.

Except for the FMLA which they must allow.

Some will give you a week or two when you start, and if you leave within the first year you have to pay them back for it because it's pro-rated on your year of work.

I worked at one place where they wouldn't give me more than 6 work days off for my wedding, yes, my wedding(and honeymoon - we went camping in Canada), but they did give me $50. They said they couldn't function without me for that long. A couple months later I told them I could function without them.

Where I work now, we get hours of vacation (around 210, not including the 9 Holidays and 4.5 Personal Holidays which are treated as 36 hours) and you have to work 40 hours per week. I can get off for an entire month at a time and am usually off for the two weeks around Christmas and New Years. Of course, it took 16 years to get to this level.

If you work 9 hour days, you can have a 3-day weekend for 4 hours of vacation. So the personal holidays translate into nine 3-day weekends. If you want to work 9.5 hour days, it's only 2 hours of vacation for a 3-day weekend, and if you're up for 10 hour days, the three day weekend is free, but you have to request the day off, you just don't use any vacation for it.

I remember when I was younger, vacations used to refresh and energize me and I'd "feel better" when I got back to work. Now it's the opposite, being on vacation makes me want to stay on vacation, not go back to work!

going back to work can be the worst.

on the 29th i'm off on 2 weeks leave..in a position that my contact is expired on the 29th, they are renewing for another year, but they want to change the job spec ..but they won't have it ready till i get back for me to see.

So, i'll be coming back to a job thats changed, and i'm not 100% confident it will be for the better!! (they want to increase my responsibility and take some work from consultants and bring it in house..so i suspect i'll have to do my job, plus the job of others..dunno..only 2 hands right)

I worked for a small company that gave you six sick days to start but no vacation days until after a year and then it was only a week. After two years we got two weeks. After five years we got three weeks. If you were there ten years you got four weeks. All were "use it or lose it". We got eight holidays off. Benefits weren't that great either but it was a very small company.


I now work for a government agency where we get a certain number of hours per paycheck (paid every two weeks). I currently get three weeks of vacation and the same for sick time. I do not lose them. I have thirteen paid holidays. If I do not use any sick time during a quarterly period I am awarded additional time (a potential of an extra week in a year).

I don't like long vacations as it makes it too hard to come back to work (after getting too relaxed). I do the three or four or five day weekends. The family doesn't seem to mind and the amount of work at work doesn't pile up too high.

The US is very different compared to other places. I know someone in Japan that gets a lot more time off and he's a foreigner in that country! Maybe they'll set minimums here someday.......

EMD

I work for a very small company which gives us 3 weeks vacation and 3 personal days, however out of the vacation time we are forced to take time off at Christmas, which I would prefer not to do as I don't really enjoy taking time off in the winter. On top of that we have 3 owners and 6 staff. During the year the one or another of the owners usually take a week off in February, March, April, May, June, and 2 weeks in July and August. The company policy is that staff are not allowed to take any vacation time at the same time as the owners, AND other staff if the jobs are interconnected. Makes it stressful just trying to organize when you can get your time off. Also really bites when you see how much vacation time the owners take, but I guess that's the joy of owning your own business....I like Europe's idea of holidays.

Unfortunately by the time I hit the 5 year mark, either the company is swirling around the drain or I'm figuring staying around any longer is atrophying my brain and career so it's time to move along. Hitting the 4 year mark right now and the pendulum looks like it could swing either way...

...the best way to fix all the problems with the new system was to work the help desk mandatory double overtime to be here continuously.

Only problem is, that had nothing whatsoever to do with the source of the system problem that was causing the calls...
Plan tanked when he discovered he would have to pay us more for the mandatory overtime. Manager tanked when his management discovered he was making zero headway because he kept throwing "thou shalt work 20 hours a day for the next four years" solutions at a system development and implementation that no one had bothered to lay down an organizational scheme for at all.

Thank god for new manager, who got things sorted out in a hurry - and suddenly it doesn't require working a double shift.

My suggestion?

Make people take the time off.

I've had to pick up the pieces when the last frayed nerve breaks, and it isn't pretty. Some people can handle stress on an ongoing basis, some can't and its difficult sometimes to tell which is which.

So better safe than sorry - make people book the time off and take it.

In the short term many people can be productive under stress but in the long run they won't be.

James

My employer tries to make people take time off (as many do) by not letting the accrued time continue. But my employer also has the managers periodically request that their people take time off as well, but it is managed by the employee.

As far as a vacation from a vacation, good advice. Yes it is stressful setting up the vacation plans and dealing with issues on vacation (things often go wrong, or not as planned).
So, what I do is spend part of the time on my vacation, and then come back home and spend a few days there, without work to think about.
This is a great way to 'be myself again.

I agree with most of the points here, and in particular with Joe's mini vacation point. For me, I get the small snatches of weekly time from grabbing a half-hour walk for my lunch break most days--gets me out of the office and back to a clear head, and more times than not I retun with a fresh perspective or solution to problems.

The other way I get that space is I take a few small "vacations" throughout the year where I go off the working grid for a 4-day weekend and spend at least a few days just relaxing at home. Not exotic and exciting, but definitely relaxing.

When it comes to that rare week-long vacation, my bachelor's life does make it a bit easier to deal with than those with family obligations--I go with friends, and make it clear ahead of time that getting some R&R is as much a priority as running around having a good time. I don't envy those with kids the distinct lack of peace on their trips, and can only hope that the family bonding experience makes it worthwhile for them.

Managing the working side of it does get a bit tricky, so what I try to do is arrange a few coworkers to cover part of my job while I'm out, and leave them enough documentation to keep things running and myself safe from emergency phone calls. I can count on having an interesting Monday and Tuesday coming back, but generally managably so.

I also do w2techman's "couple days around the house" after the travelling part of the trip--getting at least one day to wake up in my bed and do my usual weekend routine before going back to the office helps me transition to the norm. I've definitely regretted those times where I've stretched my vacation to the last possible minute and gotten to bed late the night before going back to work...

~Alex

"I've definitely regretted those times where I've stretched my vacation to the last possible minute and gotten to bed late the night before going back to work..."

One time I got back at 3:AM, drunk and all. Lets just say I didnt make it to work properly. But that was a long, long time ago.

I definitely like a couple of days to go through photos, burn them to discs, catch up on emails, and be generally lazy for a few days after getting back.

I also take into consideration that it is in compliance to statutory requisite for my team to go for vacation/s. I have a leave/ vacation schedule for my team and I ensure its followed to the book.It takes alot of planning to achieve this smoothly.
It's also good to inofficiously encourage staff to spend long vacations in a constructive way especially. Anyway vacations can be a good boost for morale and energy building I have seen that first hand.

This is what I prefer to do as well. That way, you can do the laundry, catch up on the mail, and all the other things that accumulate while you're gone, then go back to work rested and refreshed.

I've noticed a real difference between attitudes in the US and UK (where I work). US workers are much more work focussed, take fewer holidays, and are probably more stressed. This is a bit of a generalisation, I know, but there is some truth in it.

I work for local government, and we work flexi-time, so that I can finish early, take flexi-days (provided I've put in enough hours), and we have 5 weeks holidya or more as standard.

Although I enjoy my job, I enjoy my holidays more, and never feel tempted to "just check in to make sure everything's OK", or use a Blackberry to catch up on emails etc.

I always encourage staff to take any leave due to them. If the work doesn't get done because of it, then that should highlight a resouce problem to management.

I worked in the private sector for over 25 years (1 company) and found that when taking a vacation the only way to get away from work was to be a couple of thousand miles away with no mobile, blackberry etc. Lack of resource was a concern of mine but the response was no addition to head count and no overtime (unless you worked for nothing.)

Beware of taking sick leave due to stress or you may find that when the time for staff reductions come round you may find your name at the top of the list.

I really hate it when other people think they know me better than me. Personally, I am more relaxed when I am working. Being off and having to either just sit around or think of something "relaxing" to do is MUCH more stressful to me than working. I absolutely Hate having to go away and live in a hotel or some other place for a week or even a few days. Thankfully my company will let you cash in vacation time and the extra money comes handy.

So, you cash in your vacation time and never find the time to use the cash for something meaningful ?

If work is your comfort zone, you need to step out of it to grow.

I like to read some times even non technical books and I like SciFi movies. My wife takes care of spending the extra money which I could care less about. As long as the bills are paid I am happy.

My computers don't lie to me or pretend to be my friend and then stab me in the back. Plus they always do exactly what I tell them (lol).

My computers don't lie to me or pretend to be my friend and then stab me in the back. Plus they always do exactly what I tell them (lol).

Yes, I agree. Right now, I'm Coordinating a Deployment with 4 Deployment Engineers, who are in their 'resting' period, after working almost 24 hour shifts for 2 weeks. But my Project Manager (who I report to), still insists on bombarding them with meeting requests, and followups, etc.

My vacations never last more than 2 weeks (we get 22 to 28 days here in the UAE), and I usually dream about work for the first 1 week...and get SMS's asking for passwords, etc.

I've realized that in order to have a proper vacation (if there is such a thing, unless you're single, where you don't have to worry about kids and the wife/hubby), you need to have a stance which states that your cellphone will be switched off, and you can be reached thru email.

on a wide variety of appliances these days. Called the OFF button..

It works great when your on a day off work.

Unless you are your own boss..let someone else worry about it.

If someone else gets your job because you didnt answer your phone on holidays..well..they obviously don't think that much of you in the first place..

as the saying goes..

Work to Live, not Live to Work

He's a real slave driver with no time off for good Behavior.

Even when I dropped that car on me I had a NB and 3 Cell Phones in the Hospital so that they could stay in constant contact with me. Thankfully they have Wireless Broadband now so I'll not be running up horrendous Cell Phone Bills if it happens again just a lot of Over Usage on the WiFi Broadband unless I can steal the Hospitals WiFi Access.

You'll be on a hiding to nothing trying to convince SWMBO that I need a break as she pushed that car onto me for not working fast enough for her liking. She's a real monster when it suits her and proud of it as well.

Currently I'm typing with 2 broken fingers because I wasn't quite fast enough for her liking in jumping to attention when ordered to, she grabbed 2 fingers on the left hand and bent them back till they cracked.

Now I'm working on starting a new Organization who's sole aim to to Stop Violent Women! With a bit of Luck I'll be able to get rid of her maybe.

But I've just ordered the bits for another NB to be delivered this week so I have to assemble it tomorrow and deliver it Saturday. I hate how insane things get at the end of the Financial Year as everyone wants things yesterday and without warning.

Col

For the past few years - vacation was about going away, but with camping you have the prep time, site seeing, packing, cooking and always someone else there - can be just as stressful with limited relaxation. Hotel weekends - just boring. Personel days - taken to run errands, catching up on things to do at home, help others which is typically family - not relaxing either. All is fun - but has its own stress. I'm holding firm now to next spring when I plan on taking a vacation from vacation and I plan on taking it and not telling anyone. What am I going to do with that week off - I don't know yet, but its not going to be about anybody but me. Call it selfish but several years of including others or for others has peaked its stress in its own way. I'm looking forward to some me time and its way overdue.

After numerous years of putting others first, (not just regarding vacations, either) I'm in rebellion mode.

I totally agree that "others" create yet another form of stress.

Because of these "others", I will most decidedly need a vacation after the next upcoming vacation: cruise, escorting elderly deaf parents, my daughter and grandson (with whom I'm also sharing a cabin ) and this will be the first vacation in this job where I will be totally uncontactable.....

I'm dreading going!
I'm dreading coming back!

Right now, just two or three days of "me" time would do me. Ah well. This time, instead of dreaming, I'm planning.

GG

I feel for you my dear, but please do enjoy it. Time with family is precious. My father died a little over a year ago, and my dear brother-in-law recently passed away at the age of 58.

Hugs are more precious than you realize.

But, as Pa refuses to wear his hearing aid at all, and Ma will only wear one of her two, and that one gets the back mic switched off.... perhaps I should have said I'm going to be going back to work voiceless for a rest.....

I will enjoy it, wholeheartedly. Due to health circumstances, this will be Pa's last holiday abroad so we're all going to ensure he makes the most of it.

Despite what HE thinks!

- as a certified, "practising when I can" hug-a-holic, I know exactly how precious hugs are (and how healing, too)

My condolences on your losses. 58 is no age, these days. Have a hug from me.

GG

I took a week off the last week of May. There was really not much going on, but it was just staring o build up when my time came. I had an awesome time away.
I came back to a hellhole that I am still not caught up with. It took about 3 days to wear me down, and it just keeps going, and going, and going... ever since. Well, a least the days fly by until mid afternoon these days. That is when I start getting tired recently and start slowing down a bit.
But I think I lost a few pounds recently as well...