I get Christmas off! (Supposedly vacations too, but that's another story!)
I do, however, have an understanding supervisor who says "We'll worry about it when it happens" when I tell him I'm going to an evening function and may not answer calls immediately.
Edit: Oh, and your Novell friend should be able to find a job as a net admin in a school district somewhere. I can think of six in my immediate area that use Netware and Groupwise.
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I think you hit the nail squarely on the head Jason, I have experienced almost all points raised and maybe have found myself in the #1 position myself.
Your call will be answered, in the order which it is received.... ding...ding...
Here's my two cents from a managers pov: techies that get tunnel vision with a new technology and refuse to see anything else.
BTW, I own everyone on this forum thus far with my TR registration date! haha
BTW, I own everyone on this forum thus far with my TR registration date! haha
That's one of the earliest ones that I've seen recently, aside from the handful of people who have worked at TR since the beginning.
My Date is so old it was originally sent in on a 80-column punch card! Date Started-1975.
here's another number-
XX) IT managers and professionals allowing company managers to purchase any old piece of software that looks good ( from out-of-house ) because they don't want to be chewed out for "They or [He ] is Always Obstructing Us!"
We ended up with Mail Sort software that threw away all names with dashes or Apostrophe's [ Goodbye O'Brien ]. I had to write code in my own program to spoon-feed this software names with O Brien so that it would accept it.
(XXI) Personel Managers who interview veterans for jobs [ to get the US Dept. of labor form filled out ]. They look good to the US govt "For interviewing veterans". But they didn't really have a job opening and were just interviewing you; because you need practise on your interviewing Skills and , being unemployed; you have loads of time to waste, anyway!!?? Sometimes they will buy you lunch and then tell you that you just don't fit in after dessert!.
( XXII ) Personnel Managers who make sure you have 15 years experience in the discipline they supposedly need--Then when you get the job; the manager has you doing installations and cleaning the bathroom!!
here's another number-
XX) IT managers and professionals allowing company managers to purchase any old piece of software that looks good ( from out-of-house ) because they don't want to be chewed out for "They or [He ] is Always Obstructing Us!"
We ended up with Mail Sort software that threw away all names with dashes or Apostrophe's [ Goodbye O'Brien ]. I had to write code in my own program to spoon-feed this software names with O Brien so that it would accept it.
(XXI) Personel Managers who interview veterans for jobs [ to get the US Dept. of labor form filled out ]. They look good to the US govt "For interviewing veterans". But they didn't really have a job opening and were just interviewing you; because you need practise on your interviewing Skills and , being unemployed; you have loads of time to waste, anyway!!?? Sometimes they will buy you lunch and then tell you that you just don't fit in after dessert!.
( XXII ) Personnel Managers who make sure you have 15 years experience in the discipline they supposedly need--Then when you get the job; the manager has you doing installations and cleaning the bathroom!!
We were the high priests and we had the respect. International BUSINESS Machines made the business happen by replacing an office full of people that wrote in books all day. ( yes, a movie was made about it )
Then we " Fell from Grace " with the advent of the PC. We were just the common folk, like anyone else. The fear of working with the " monster chained in the glass room " was replaced with contempt. I watched that happen .
I was the hardware person like Scotty, the miracle worker and I had to add to the time required to get things done simply because of the unforseen. I always delivered, but on MY terms, as I defined what I could do or NOT do. I acted as a manager ( I got the training ) of MY time and remained efficient, but I have been thrown under the bus many times because a COST center is the first to go in this modern age of bean counters. ( quarter to quarter profits are important; long term stability isn't anymore ) funny thing is, when I had moved on, I get calls from my ex co- workers about how the company is falling apart; 6 months later, they have been bought out or gone......
Yes, I've been around since the beginning and built my IMSAI 8080. .I have worked with everything from microchips to Cray supercomputers and everything in between.
I was part of this industry that has matured. Yes, outsourcing has happened. It appears that is the wave of the future. That is why I stayed in hardware; it is harder to outsource that. But that had an end run solution: TIER support systems, with useless first level support, implemented scripts and stupidity at all levels of a customer interface. My dealings with AT&T was a good example: I knew more about their DSL system than THEY did. ( I knew people that had designed the hardware ) I watched them LIE about their problems, and I finally confronted them about them. I changed the ISP; I still had to deal with the same idiots at the hardware level though; the ISP got an eye-opener.....
I finally have gotten out of the whole system. I didn't like where it was heading. Things have got to change, or the infrastructure is going to collapse just like that I-35 bridge in the Minneapple ( yes, I saw the neglect back in the 1980s; we have a similar neglect in IT now )
It was fun when the emphasis was " get 'er done ". Not so fun when " It's all about the money ". Mammon is a fickle god to pray to.
Everyone needs to read their history a bit more. You will learn quite a bit from history.
Then we " Fell from Grace " with the advent of the PC. We were just the common folk, like anyone else. The fear of working with the " monster chained in the glass room " was replaced with contempt. I watched that happen .
I was the hardware person like Scotty, the miracle worker and I had to add to the time required to get things done simply because of the unforseen. I always delivered, but on MY terms, as I defined what I could do or NOT do. I acted as a manager ( I got the training ) of MY time and remained efficient, but I have been thrown under the bus many times because a COST center is the first to go in this modern age of bean counters. ( quarter to quarter profits are important; long term stability isn't anymore ) funny thing is, when I had moved on, I get calls from my ex co- workers about how the company is falling apart; 6 months later, they have been bought out or gone......
Yes, I've been around since the beginning and built my IMSAI 8080. .I have worked with everything from microchips to Cray supercomputers and everything in between.
I was part of this industry that has matured. Yes, outsourcing has happened. It appears that is the wave of the future. That is why I stayed in hardware; it is harder to outsource that. But that had an end run solution: TIER support systems, with useless first level support, implemented scripts and stupidity at all levels of a customer interface. My dealings with AT&T was a good example: I knew more about their DSL system than THEY did. ( I knew people that had designed the hardware ) I watched them LIE about their problems, and I finally confronted them about them. I changed the ISP; I still had to deal with the same idiots at the hardware level though; the ISP got an eye-opener.....
I finally have gotten out of the whole system. I didn't like where it was heading. Things have got to change, or the infrastructure is going to collapse just like that I-35 bridge in the Minneapple ( yes, I saw the neglect back in the 1980s; we have a similar neglect in IT now )
It was fun when the emphasis was " get 'er done ". Not so fun when " It's all about the money ". Mammon is a fickle god to pray to.
Everyone needs to read their history a bit more. You will learn quite a bit from history.
I had an earlier ID, I think from 1999. I can't remember why I had to create a new one. You might be able to look up my old one.
James
James
I registered in 99 and a couple times since and I had my account toasted. I know that the first one got toasted after the first flip of TechRepublic. I had a bazillion tech points that I lost. The good news is they never amounted to anything. I kinda thought that after a couple posts about tech points being worthless had something to do with it.
At any rate I think a lot of people's accounts got toasted. I know I was one of the first wave to sign up.
At any rate I think a lot of people's accounts got toasted. I know I was one of the first wave to sign up.
..
Job role: IT Department Manager
Location: MENOMONEE FALLS, Wisconsin
Member since:August 1999 ? My newsletter subscriptions
? Edit profile
..
Interesting thread here, Jason...but wow, some bitter people.
Job role: IT Department Manager
Location: MENOMONEE FALLS, Wisconsin
Member since:August 1999 ? My newsletter subscriptions
? Edit profile
..
Interesting thread here, Jason...but wow, some bitter people.
but TR lost my registration along the way somewhere, and I didn't then come back 'til recently... 
It's not like anything changed!
(apart from everything)
It's not like anything changed!
(apart from everything)
I was in doing a non-related IT job in South America (flying). When I returned I just couldn't remember the darn old login (read ID) I had used. ergo, 2006.
Musta' been the altitude
Anyways' flying is about as profitable as IT and the similarities are 'YOU CAN CRASH'?!!
But, unlike IT, it was a lot of fun while it lasted.
BOL
Musta' been the altitude
Anyways' flying is about as profitable as IT and the similarities are 'YOU CAN CRASH'?!!
But, unlike IT, it was a lot of fun while it lasted.
BOL
Bah - Nov. 2nd here. I feel like such a noob.
Number six, for sure. My wife's grandfather is in his mid-80s and ALWAYS has a question or two for me about his PC when we go over. This has been going on since the days of his killer 486.
Number six, for sure. My wife's grandfather is in his mid-80s and ALWAYS has a question or two for me about his PC when we go over. This has been going on since the days of his killer 486.
It's true that does occur, but it also occurs that I am not always open to new ideas either, preferring to stick with proven methods and technologies. Sometimes (sometimes...) old ways are proven to be better than new and improved, ask Coke about NewCoke...
It's a tough decision, and not always obvious which is better.
It's a tough decision, and not always obvious which is better.
Glad you liked it then!
I was afraid you thought the piece itself was overly preachy.
I was afraid you thought the piece itself was overly preachy.
Here's some more with a developer slant.
Except from Tony's Developer Aphorisms
No software survives contact with a user.
You could have done it better if you'd had the time, so it was obviously your fault for not getting it.
80% of the work you do on an application is after some poor fool bought it.
Change is a given.
The biggest technological achievement in IT is the moving goal post.
If you can't read your own code next month, everybody else had more chance yesterday.
Knowing how to write code in language does not mean you can program.
The first casualties in a software project are documentation and quality.
Quick fixes are long term faults.
Get the data structure right, coding is easy.
Except from Tony's Developer Aphorisms
No software survives contact with a user.
You could have done it better if you'd had the time, so it was obviously your fault for not getting it.
80% of the work you do on an application is after some poor fool bought it.
Change is a given.
The biggest technological achievement in IT is the moving goal post.
If you can't read your own code next month, everybody else had more chance yesterday.
Knowing how to write code in language does not mean you can program.
The first casualties in a software project are documentation and quality.
Quick fixes are long term faults.
Get the data structure right, coding is easy.
I'm hoping to eventually publish a separate version for developers, although I won't be writing it.
You know, the ones who get called in to fix all the bugs then get to hear "It was perfectly fine when we got it, what did YOU do to it?"
Yeah, it was fine becasuse some idiot hadn't yet found the way to make the system hiccup by entering in 15 values never intended for processing and the developer wrote "sunny day" error handling.
Yeah, it was fine becasuse some idiot hadn't yet found the way to make the system hiccup by entering in 15 values never intended for processing and the developer wrote "sunny day" error handling.
You hear rumours everynow and then.
Like the one who was spotted with a family of yeti living on the back of the Loch Ness monster.
I can't personally vouch for their existance though.
Like the one who was spotted with a family of yeti living on the back of the Loch Ness monster.
I can't personally vouch for their existance though.
We called them developers....
To illustrate the difference....
A developer and a maintenance coder decide to go on a hunting trip.
They decide to share the work. The developer would go out and bring a bear back to the cabin and the maintenance coder would gut and clean it.
After the developer is gone for an hour, the maintenance coder hears a frantic pounding on the door. he opens it and sees the developer with a bear rushing towards him, at the last second, the developer jumps to the side, and the bear rushes past him and into the cabin.
The developer closes the door and says...
"I did my job"
To illustrate the difference....
A developer and a maintenance coder decide to go on a hunting trip.
They decide to share the work. The developer would go out and bring a bear back to the cabin and the maintenance coder would gut and clean it.
After the developer is gone for an hour, the maintenance coder hears a frantic pounding on the door. he opens it and sees the developer with a bear rushing towards him, at the last second, the developer jumps to the side, and the bear rushes past him and into the cabin.
The developer closes the door and says...
"I did my job"
I'ld like to offer him a job...we're always looking for creative folks.
You mean like this?
ONERROR GOTO Error
.
.
.
:Error
GOTO Top
.
.
.
ONERROR GOTO Error
.
.
.
:Error
GOTO Top
.
.
.
Hey everyone. I am relatively new to TR however I am finding that the articles are top notch, some downright hilarious and the forums and users to be very knowledgeable.
I have a great example for this. I, like many other college students, was taken in by the lure of 6 figure incomes that are advertised at college. I was a self-proclaimed techie... loved the robots, the programming classes, math etc...
So I enrolled in at Michigan Tech, took an entry level job as a Technical Intern within a few years and here is where my dream was stomped on like a hairy spider by a housewife...
My third night at my new job, I had a dream my phone was ringing. I even dream I threw it at the clock that read 3:17am. Then my dream of the phone kept repeating itself... Three times. I woke up to find the damn phone ringing and my lovely boss demanding that I "Get my ass in my office in 15 minutes..."
Well, during the course of my virgin year in IT I realized that 6 figures, hell even a good 5 figure comes from working like a donkey on a mountain.
Needless to say, 3 years later, I had a different and more experienced perspective to share!
I have a great example for this. I, like many other college students, was taken in by the lure of 6 figure incomes that are advertised at college. I was a self-proclaimed techie... loved the robots, the programming classes, math etc...
So I enrolled in at Michigan Tech, took an entry level job as a Technical Intern within a few years and here is where my dream was stomped on like a hairy spider by a housewife...
My third night at my new job, I had a dream my phone was ringing. I even dream I threw it at the clock that read 3:17am. Then my dream of the phone kept repeating itself... Three times. I woke up to find the damn phone ringing and my lovely boss demanding that I "Get my ass in my office in 15 minutes..."
Well, during the course of my virgin year in IT I realized that 6 figures, hell even a good 5 figure comes from working like a donkey on a mountain.
Needless to say, 3 years later, I had a different and more experienced perspective to share!
Your points illustrate what i was thinking:
The IT body who:
Has an unnatural relationship with a creaking old system, it's a sacred cow: "you'll never find another system that'll do what we need" - well maybe 10 years ago, but that's the last time (s)he looked at the marketplace.
Says "It's finished" when there's no documentation or user manual and is in a state that should rightly be termed 'ready for beta testing'.
Puts bits of "temporary" code in to cope with "exceptional" circumstances (s)he didn't think of in the first place.
Blames the users when they commit ordinary human errors the system should be able to trap. (So you've never typed last year in a date at the beginning of January? Congratulations, you may be unique!)
Looks down on non-IT staff's lack of IT expertise - either speaking to them as if they were idiots or blinding them with jargon they have no reason to know. Can you do all their jobs?
Designs a system without reference to the knowledge and experience of the people 'at the coal face' who actually do the job. Do you really think the Financial Director knows how to post and reconcile credit card receipts? (I speak as a Financial Director.)
If we want mutual respect between ourselves and the staff with whom we work, it is open to us to help the wheel turn.
The IT body who:
Has an unnatural relationship with a creaking old system, it's a sacred cow: "you'll never find another system that'll do what we need" - well maybe 10 years ago, but that's the last time (s)he looked at the marketplace.
Says "It's finished" when there's no documentation or user manual and is in a state that should rightly be termed 'ready for beta testing'.
Puts bits of "temporary" code in to cope with "exceptional" circumstances (s)he didn't think of in the first place.
Blames the users when they commit ordinary human errors the system should be able to trap. (So you've never typed last year in a date at the beginning of January? Congratulations, you may be unique!)
Looks down on non-IT staff's lack of IT expertise - either speaking to them as if they were idiots or blinding them with jargon they have no reason to know. Can you do all their jobs?
Designs a system without reference to the knowledge and experience of the people 'at the coal face' who actually do the job. Do you really think the Financial Director knows how to post and reconcile credit card receipts? (I speak as a Financial Director.)
If we want mutual respect between ourselves and the staff with whom we work, it is open to us to help the wheel turn.
Points addressed in order
It's creaking and ten years old because it was good enough for the last nine.
Nope it's finished because some fool promised it for today
Why would I think of it, you told me order number was a number.
Who said we don't need a QA department?
How am I meant to explain why a double precision floating point value lacks accuracy. I tell you it isn't, you point to all the numbers after the decimal point. So now it gets technical. Why didn't you just take my word for it?
Now that I've seen happen, usually when the business hires a shiny new grad who cost half of what I do to 'save' money.
Mutual respect, or mutual disrespect, you get what you give.
I've absolutely no idea how to be a financial director, I know a heck of a lot about development though. You do the numbers , I'll do the code, we'll both be happier.
It's creaking and ten years old because it was good enough for the last nine.
Nope it's finished because some fool promised it for today
Why would I think of it, you told me order number was a number.
Who said we don't need a QA department?
How am I meant to explain why a double precision floating point value lacks accuracy. I tell you it isn't, you point to all the numbers after the decimal point. So now it gets technical. Why didn't you just take my word for it?
Now that I've seen happen, usually when the business hires a shiny new grad who cost half of what I do to 'save' money.
Mutual respect, or mutual disrespect, you get what you give.
I've absolutely no idea how to be a financial director, I know a heck of a lot about development though. You do the numbers , I'll do the code, we'll both be happier.
We had a saying in our group at my last place of employment.
"the specs are the specs except for when they're not"
"Yes, this field will ALWAYS have numbers in it..." (then after it's delivered) "Oh, except for our customers from Elbonia, where they prefer a letter prefix." (after revisions) "oh! and the Elbonians might sometimes have a suffix that is a character too..." (more revisions) "WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG!!! CAN'T YOU PEOPLE FOLLOW SIMPLE SPECS???!!!!"
(must..control...fist...of...death)
"the specs are the specs except for when they're not"
"Yes, this field will ALWAYS have numbers in it..." (then after it's delivered) "Oh, except for our customers from Elbonia, where they prefer a letter prefix." (after revisions) "oh! and the Elbonians might sometimes have a suffix that is a character too..." (more revisions) "WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG!!! CAN'T YOU PEOPLE FOLLOW SIMPLE SPECS???!!!!"
(must..control...fist...of...death)
Was doing a contract for a little inventory control app.
Got the spec basically a database schema from the devlopment manager.
InvoiceNumber int
Passed the app for beta test, can't put
1786564A in the invoice number field.
Assumption, development manager knew to check that numbers are numbers.
If I'd have been collecting the requirements, I would n't have missed that (again :D)
Got the spec basically a database schema from the devlopment manager.
InvoiceNumber int
Passed the app for beta test, can't put
1786564A in the invoice number field.
Assumption, development manager knew to check that numbers are numbers.
If I'd have been collecting the requirements, I would n't have missed that (again :D)
As a programmer, you need to be practically paranoid about inputs. If an input can crash the system, it will be found usually within minutes of release by some user. I just fixed a proc that another programmer wrote which made the assumption that a date field would either be null or contain numbers. Someone found a way of entering 'xxxxxx' into the field.
Also, keep a printed copy of every spec submitted to you because inevitably the reason that program does not give the expected results is because you implemented the spec wrong (it is never because the user changed the spec without thinking through the consequences).
Also, keep a printed copy of every spec submitted to you because inevitably the reason that program does not give the expected results is because you implemented the spec wrong (it is never because the user changed the spec without thinking through the consequences).
does my boss?
I'm a big fan of always validating input.
Oh a null object will never be passed in to the code is never true.
Can't be passed in maybe.
Will be sometime for some reason, absolutely guaranteed.
I'm a big fan of always validating input.
Oh a null object will never be passed in to the code is never true.
Can't be passed in maybe.
Will be sometime for some reason, absolutely guaranteed.
Holy crap, Tony, I've noticed you funny
before, but I never knew you're THAT
funny!!
My favorite:
"How am I meant to explain why a double
precision floating point value lacks
accuracy. I tell you it isn't, you point to
all the numbers after the decimal point. So
now it gets technical. Why didn't you just
take my word for it?"
before, but I never knew you're THAT
funny!!
My favorite:
"How am I meant to explain why a double
precision floating point value lacks
accuracy. I tell you it isn't, you point to
all the numbers after the decimal point. So
now it gets technical. Why didn't you just
take my word for it?"
If a system has been in place for 10 years, the business has probably built many of it's core processes around that system. How many times have you been frustrated by a customer sevice rep who can't help you out because "the computer won't let me do it"? At some point over that 10 year period, the computer system and the business process became one. Furthermore, it probably took 10 years of tweaking to get that "old, aging system" (which has been continually updated) to finally work the way it's "supposed" to.
As for "it's finished", I've never seen a software developer impose a deadline. Those always come from the business side.
Temporary bits of code are bad. Bad, bad, bad. Given their preference, most software developers I know would rather spend a few weeks (or months) figuring out why some piece of functionality was overlooked, how it relates to other business processes, and how to integrate the functionality into the system without breaking anything. Again, it's typically the business analyst who has a timeline of "fix it by tomorrow or we'll go out of business". How some piece of functionality that is critical to the life of the business didn't get noticed until just now is, quite frankly, beyond my comprehension.
It's true that many software developers (and IT folks in general) blame users for not knowing as much as they do. Mistakes happen, and there needs to be a way to fix it.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to throw your last point back in your lap. Is it really IT's job to get in front of the people who actually do the job, or is that the job of the Financial Director? Too often the business analyst (who has no idea how to post and reconcile credit card receipts) is the one telling the software devs how that functionality should work. When the users see it, and hate it, it's somehow the software team's fault. For some reason many businesses offload selecting/designing software to the IT department. Shouldn't software be selected/designed by the people who will be using it?
In short, I respect the business analyst who has taken the time to "analyze" their own business and can communicate coherent specifications to me. I don't respect one who tells me a different story every day, depending on which direction the wind is blowing.
As for "it's finished", I've never seen a software developer impose a deadline. Those always come from the business side.
Temporary bits of code are bad. Bad, bad, bad. Given their preference, most software developers I know would rather spend a few weeks (or months) figuring out why some piece of functionality was overlooked, how it relates to other business processes, and how to integrate the functionality into the system without breaking anything. Again, it's typically the business analyst who has a timeline of "fix it by tomorrow or we'll go out of business". How some piece of functionality that is critical to the life of the business didn't get noticed until just now is, quite frankly, beyond my comprehension.
It's true that many software developers (and IT folks in general) blame users for not knowing as much as they do. Mistakes happen, and there needs to be a way to fix it.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to throw your last point back in your lap. Is it really IT's job to get in front of the people who actually do the job, or is that the job of the Financial Director? Too often the business analyst (who has no idea how to post and reconcile credit card receipts) is the one telling the software devs how that functionality should work. When the users see it, and hate it, it's somehow the software team's fault. For some reason many businesses offload selecting/designing software to the IT department. Shouldn't software be selected/designed by the people who will be using it?
In short, I respect the business analyst who has taken the time to "analyze" their own business and can communicate coherent specifications to me. I don't respect one who tells me a different story every day, depending on which direction the wind is blowing.
I Agree With Jason, Every IT Professional has to face this situation. We are made for it. It all depends how once copes with it.
Do you agree that ???The key to product integrity is leadership???? Why or why not?
The key is competition, without that no business will bother with it, quality is an overhead.
Good leadership, IMO, would continue to make noise within an organization even in the absence of competition, and achieve some level of quality. But without real competition, the laborers will know theirs is the only game in town and quality will suffer, to a degree that can only be marginally influenced by leadership. The converse holds for competitive markets.
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