Discussion on:

Microsoft relents and allows XP downgrade

How would the "final" cessation of Windows XP sales next year affect you?

we were supposed to migrate to Vista in April '07. But the testing teams have had a very hard time getting it to work in a stable/consistant manner on our network. These teams have pushed the release of Vista back several times already, and the latest is now somewhere around march/april '08.
But, by then SP1 should be out and they will need to test with it as well. I wonder how many new problems will arise with it, and if the teams will push the release even farther.

The funny thing is that at my company, we are MS bitches, and even then we cannot seem to get Vista to work right....lol

P.S. -- when I say my company, I mean the one I work for, not that I own anything.

to remember the day Coca-Cola stopped selling Coca-Cola (1985). That proves that Microsoft is not the dumbest bunch of exec's on the planet, but might be a contender.
If you're one of those folks who trades their new car in every three years, Vista is perfect for you, since you can afford to replace all your hardware, printers, peripherals and software even faster. For me (and large corporations, who cannot just turn on a dime even if they could justify the cost) XP is just fine. It does everything I need and it's familiar to use.
Vista? Why bother?

The VISTA was the best thing Microsoft did for me. After loosing more than 4 days testing and experimenting this SO, I decided to the best. Migrate do Mac OS X.
I bought a new MacBook PRO and voila. All things work just fine. The printer is not a problem any more. The scanner works fine too.

I've just calculated that I've not had a stable computer on my desk since 1990. So roll on Monday when I buy an Imac 24.

I *started* selling hardware because my clients couldn't get XP over the counter. I've sold half a dozen laptops and about 20 towers thanks to Mr. Gates. My local Staples store is not very happy either because I used to send customers to them because they could get the systems cheaper. I can understand wanting to sunset a product but it's WAY too soon and which one of the six(?) flavors of Vista do I tell my customers to purchase? Probably the most expensive (Ultimate?) and that's exactly what Sir Bill wants us to do.

Vista is way too big and slow for our hardware and Windows XP seems to fly on the same hardware.

We have already noticed where Dell have hardware on their Vostro that the only drivers available are on Windows Vista.

We know we may have issues with certain features of the newer hardware but for simplifying our network we will continue to down grade for at least the next 12 to 24 months.

I work for a Fortune 500 co. with over 210,000 PCs worldwide with both W2K & Xp (Unix, W2K & W2K3 Servers). Since Feb., there has been a pilot of approx. 2000 users for Vista, and approx. 2000 users for Linux. Not sure of the specs for Vista, but the Linux / Red Hat budget just doubled for next quarter, and my manager sent my team some class schedules for Linux starting in November. I personally would prefer to stay with XP, but, the powers that be are probably forecasting a post-XP fiasco.

Agreed rogsfca! I've upgraded all servers in my company to 2003 R2 and XP etc. The cost alone to move now to the next stanges of Microsoft products has forced the Management Board to instruct me to moe the company to Sun Solaris. I don't like the idea at all but managers dont understand why Microsoft are making so many changes and they seem to simple think "I domt care way; they should stop. It's costing all more money" I personal would like to se Microsoft do more of there marketing to get the Managers involved and informed them of how it will benafit the company and not how it will benafit the IT.

Many companies here in Denver have resisted the move to vista and I believe rightly so .
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As always I believe that, ms has brought another product to market that is very poorly finished and not really ready for market.
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It's cute ......... it is not functional.
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It has too many hidden agenda's running in the background , that's what makes it cute and easy to use for the average user , but not a very good product for the day to day business .
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On that point ..... I do like the fact that Dell decided to listen to business customers and offer a "unloaded" series of computers.
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M2CW

M$ has achieved their goal of being damn near everywhere now, so as a consequence, it is a nightmare to 'upgrade' everything.

They've made the lion's share of vendors of both hardware and software conform to XP standards and now want everyone to jump.

The beancounters and the sysadmins are on the same side this time.

Migrating from XP to Vista is too much work and money for any advantages that such a migration may bring.

Unfortunately where I am employed our main application is an eight bit dos program. The database software is equally antiquated and we have been informed by the vendor that it will not function in a Vista environment. So I will be buying a lot of used systems preloaded with XP Pro or parts to fix the old machines we are currently running.
The ideal situation would be to replace the offending application, unfortunately no one with authority to do so is willing or are unable to do so.
So an eBaying I shall go.

VMWare Server seems to be free and will let you run almost any old x86 operating system including DOS.

Contact me for a quote on bringing that app into the new millennium.

I hold an MCSD credential, but am in no way married to Microsoft development tools (despite what others may think of me here, lol!) Love MySQL. Could develop it as a web-based back office solution, or local client application, or whatever.

Just let me know.

I have it at home, and it is not ready for the work environment unless you want to dramatically augment your internal support staff. It's not that it crashes a lot, but it has some troubling issues.

I have vista at home and one copy at work I will tell you that Vista Bus is way different from Vista home. The Bus version I have works great with all my apps I have not found a App that is does not like yet. The vista Home well that should be drop kicked into the son along with the guy that said lets create a vista home that gives users no chance of using there exsisting infrastructure. But any ways I like Vista Bus but the Home has to be inproved.

Vista is Vista - Home, Home Premium, Business, or Ultra (and the half dozen I didn't mention.) Only real difference is what features are turned on. At the heart of your situation, I would suspect the difference in experience lies in the hardware and corresponding drivers.

All operating systems have blemishes. Even XP. The "Troubling Issues" you speak of are more likely the misunderstanding of how Vista works than inherent flaws in the OS itself. Nobody gets UAC, for example, but it is one of the most innovative security measures ever taken. Because they don't understand it, people eventually learn how to turn it off, and take a huge step backwards in security. Oh well. Ignorance is bliss, they say!

Then there are the software authors who don't get it either and continue to write in defiance of the new features. Well, that will bite them in the butt one day!

Vista rocks. Yes, SP1 is eagerly anticipated, but buying with XP instead of Vista now will just lead to significant regret later.

"Gee, I could've had a V-8!"

We also had an issue with a customer that thought they would save money and order their own new Dell's.
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Of coarse , the OS was Vista.
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What a piece of crap !
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Finally ..... after spending many hours attempting to make the printers work [ computer makers brand yet ! ] ..... we called the maker..... they finally ..... agreed to send new hard drives only......
so that I could install them and get them up and running.
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The moron wanted to send XP home ........ I insisted on XP PRO ..... new hard drives were up and running in minutes ....... it took all day to do the updates and most folks were begrudgingly "ok" with the many re-boots
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But ...... almost everything worked immediately ....
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My question to Bill is ........ why give away all of your monay ..... and so then you need more ......so you put out such a piece of s*** OS ?
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and who actually tested all of the printer drivers that are out there ?
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I was told by the computer company that they had many problems with Vista and that they were going to still offer XP [ Pro ] to all that asked for it, as he said ...... less brain damage
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So ........ hopefully .... "Uncle Bill" is listening ......... stop offering such worthless crap until ....... until all tests are completed and are successful, not ..... we'll fix the thing after we hear what is not working right .
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Just my opinion ....... don't need any lawsuits today ........
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This will not effect me as I carry a valid Corperate LIC for XP Pro and I will just downgrade the PC's myself.

With an Enterprise license, we'll just keep loading XP as long as we can XP drivers for the new hardware.

I upgraded twice for Vista to XP corporate on one laptop. The first time I downgraded to Vista because I could not find XP drivers for some of my hardware.

I thought about this for a while and then remembered the many Linux installs I have done in which I had to remove the kernel of an XP driver, especially for Broadcom wireless drivers. While taking apart these drivers, I noticed that the driver package most often contains drivers for previous versions.

I reloaded XP, then went to the manufactures web site and DL'd the 32 bit Vista drivers for my hardware and installed them. They work like a charm.

While long winded, maybe this will give you some ideas when you need to find drivers for XP on a preconfigured Vista box.

I am going to do all that I can to keep XP Pro on our PCs and Laptops. I know that we are keeping it on our servers right now. I can just imagine the nightmare that we would have if we allowed the change to Vista. Everyone would be hollering for help! There is no way we could keep up with the calls on 200 PCs and 75 laptops that we have here in this DC alone. Not to mention all of the other DCs and Mother company.

I will guess that you meant something else.

I think there was confusion in the use of acronyms.

Most machines come with no OS and when one does have one I blow it away and install from our corporate license anyway.

90% of people who buy new computers through the retail outlet that I work for walk out with Vista preinstalled. In about a week they return their computers and ask for XP to be installed.
They find that most of their programs will not work with Vista.
Vista will still not work with Server 2003 'out of the Box'

If as it seems microsft are to try to kill of XP what is there to replace it?.Ive tried vista and find it has a nice face (desktop)
but no usful subatnce behind it, in short it may just be able to run a washing machine but that is all.Have thy not learnt anything from the XP eperiance again they have gone to the market with a product that is far from ready they should continue to suport XP take vista off the market untill it is a viable product In no other industry would a company get away with using its customers as guine pigs as microsoft dose Vista may be ready in about three to four years for me to seriously think about trying it again .

I work for a large company in the mid west and the section I work for is not going for Vista.
The main part of the company is going to try to adopt it next year but most of the IT section is out sourced and makes money from MS for use of its product.
We are on a separate network so we can choose what we need to do. We have tried Vista on test computers and were not impressed with it. It will not take our older programs; it would cost millions to update those programs.
Vista could not use any of the twenty printers or scanners we have. We tried to patch a computer with remote access and had to let it run for over an hour and it still did not work.
The people we tried it on were just upset because the programs they have to use were upset. Because it keep promoting them to ask for administrative access.
Microsoft has put out another bug product and wants us to find the problems so they can fix it.
I like the newest Linux distro.

My customers come to me because i don't try to force anything on them. You do not have to read tech articles to hear things about new operating systems. If I could not provide a good alternative to new OS releases
I would lose my service cusomer base. Not evrybody wants an over the top system. XP provides an alternative for a sesible, if you will, computer! I never gave it alot of thought but there ARE other OS alternatives to microsoft OS.

We're not moving to Vista. Period.

Indeed we're getting so heartily sick of the Microsoft merry-go-round that we're seriously looking at Mac OS X Tiger on Intel.

If you've not looked at it, I suggest you do.

An Operating System that appears to work, is secure, doesn't fragment, runs (not walks), supports Remote Desktop even to Windows Apps and still supports all the applications we use now with some other cool features you don't see with Vista or even XP.

I make no other comment other than just give it a look.

We are all and always have been Uncle Bill's Beta testers. Same story different version.

The company I work for we have about 1000 computers and we just finished migrating the last of the win2k boxes to XP last Decemeber. We have no plans to move to Vista because of cost and benefits. What benefits does vista provide over XP? I see none and why change a system that we have when it works! The different versions of Vista are confusing to say the least so until more testing and proof is done we have no plans to move to the new OS.

Again, start reading here:

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista.asp

And for a primer on folder virtualization, start reading here:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windowsvista/aa905117.aspx

And just my thoughts on your upgrade schedule, but I'd have to believe that any company that has just recently completed an XP migration has already missed the bus and is sinking unrecoverable $$$ and man hours into a commodity item not really worth that level of effort. Your time is better spent on projects to keep your company competitive and on the cutting edge of innovation. A $1,500 6 year old box box does not warrant 5X it's purchase price over that many years in support and four years too late upgrades.

Hi all,

I am trying to help my Operations Manager... A co-worker has a Gateway MT3707 running Vista Home Premium. We want to downgrade the laptop to XP, have checked the downgrade chart, and we "qualify". Problem is, I can't find instructions to actually do it. I'm a mac addict, hate windows, and cant really do anything to advanced in it (because as a Project Assistant, there's only so much I ever need to do on Windows). All that to say - I need some serious step by step instructions. Help, pahlease.

We have been ordering new office machines and laptops with the downgrade since vistas release

They just ordered new laptops and they all came with xp.

Dan

Fortunately, our primary software vendor says their product is not certified to run on Vista machines.

I've been replacing our aging Windows 2000 machines with XP.

I'd like to have at least one Vista machine in the office so I can learn the OS because it's something we're all going to have to deal with eventually.

We have been ordering XP on all new equipment at our company. The stability of Vista is not the main issue. Ours is that the learning curve for our 200+ users would be nearly impossible to support with the two of us in IT. Vista looks good and has some great new features, but 80% of our users are just fine with the functionality of XP Pro.

I work for a small school district. I am still replacing Windows 98/ME (and even one 95 will have to go soon!) with XP. When I set up a new machine, I downgrade the appearance so that not only does everything look relatively alike, but it performs better and I don't have to retrain anyone. Can the appearance of Vista be brought back to the computer neolithic age?

I am also concerned about what flavor to get and what apps and hardware I will have to upgrade when we are finally forced to make the switch.

Great but why does then the reseller Dell in Ireland not sell XP but only vista. For my company I requested the new hardware be downgraded to XP and they refused.

If you read the article quoted carefully
see 'Microsoft is requiring large PC makers to stop selling XP-based systems as of January 31 ???'

It says that PC makers cannot ship a licence for XP after Jan 2008 - it does NOT say that they cannot ship a system with a licence for Windows Vista Business or Ultimate and pre-install Windows XP Professional as allowed under downgrade rights.

As I understand the Microsoft licence anyone can load XP Pro or any other operating system prior to Vista, if they have a legal licence for Vista.

Lets face it Microsoft has to clean the egg off it's face for releasing Vista. They don't care, nor will they ever take a survey to find out, how many machines with a licence for Vista are in fact running XP or earlier. Microsoft can then boast that they are selling huge volumes of Vista, when in fact they are not even being used, thus trying to make it seem like there is a world wide acceptance of Vista.

If you look at the pricing of XP. Still up there. It will be until it finally disappears from the market. The last thing Microsoft wants is companies stockpiling copies of XP at a low price to avoid having to purchase Vista.

So the saga of the incompetent software company continues. Someday it will crash like the OS' it continually releases. Until then I guess we will have to continue to find ways around the stupidity of the Gates. Some of you, like myself, may be old enough to remember Gates started this company by stealing from others and getting away with it. Should it not be legal to steal from a thief. There are ways to load XP and have it appear to legal and not cost you a dime. What's that saying "What's good for the goose is good for the gander".

just my 2 cents

I know a slew of sysadmins who have threatened mutany over Vista

Either you've mis-spelled MUTINY or MUTANCY.

Either would apply tho' I prefer the latter!