Discussion on:

Job hunting: Should you supply references?

I've interviewed and hired quite a number of people in my career, and only on a couple of occasions have I called the references someone provided.

I usually look first and foremost for a person who will be a good fit for the company, someone with a great attitude, and someone who appears that he/she will blend into the dynamics of the company. Hire for attitude and train for skills has pretty much been my underlying hiring philosophy, and it's actually worked pretty well. It's easy to train a person who has a great attitude, assuming there are at least some core, underlying skills, but it's nearly impossible to transform a talented and trained person with bad attitude into someone who won't poison the workplace. As such, references don't really do much for me. I can recall only twice when I actually called a person's references.

I was unsure about this one person, and I just couldn't get a good feel for what kind of employee he might be. Of course, the reference was glowing (I can't imagine someone would give the name of a person who would give a BAD reference), and I hired him. He actually turned out to be one of my worst mistakes. I'm glad he quit before I had to let him go.

The other time was when an ex-convict applied for a position. He gave me the name of his prison supervisor as a reference, and I called to talk about the guy. Naturally, the applicant was very uneasy about admitting and discussing his past and such, but I really liked the guy and wanted to give him a chance. That was the only time I wanted to hire someone, but my boss vetoed my decision. (I'll bet he would have worked out great.)

There are websites that you can visit which will teach you all about the company you are applying for. Some info is provided by former employees, other is gathered from recruiters and other info is just built from basic high school style company interviews.

THis in turnlets the applicant know exactly what to act like, exactly what buzz words to use, exactly what NOT to say, exactly what your company may have looked for before etc.

In essence, it creates a BS applicant. Most recruiters are on to this and look for keywords used in an interview to tip them off that the person has been prompted. In some cases it shows up immediately as the resumes are formatted to a similar style, as influenced by the website it was farmed from.

What I am getting at is that if you base your decisions on meeting only, you can be fooled by a prompted applicant who knows how to hit you rhot buttons just right.

In contrast though, to not properly seek teh right fit in an applicant will mean you are hiring based on certs or resume dazzle, which of course is just as detrimental.

A thorough read of a resume coupled with reference checks and a long meeting is usually a good start.

On the oter hand, I have been hired several times by people who never checked references, I've found work without even providing references, but this is not the norm.

Check references carefully and remember they MAY be biased but a good way to weigh the various pieces of info you have, AFTER a personal interview but not before.

than I've been asked for references.

I never supply them unless asked for and I never give mine to pimps.

Every time I've supplied a reference to a pimp they've tried to pump me before or after.
One offered to put me forward the for the job an ex-colleague was applying for !

A number of sites and employers require not only professional but personal references. Those are rare.

I actually asked for a letter from mine (professional). That way I can submit the letters during an interview, and have a better idea what my references will say if/when they are contacted.

Desired or not, I like being able to give them something that speaks to my credentials, other than me just saying so.

This works for me ...

How does one get around this situation?

Get a written reference WHILE working for your current employer. I often ask for one during those horrible annual interviews.

A manager or supervisor will usually offer a written reference or even a performance evaluation, which is just as good.

Then when you are looking for work, you can offer a written reference or performance eval without the need to get a verbal reference.

Can one approach his/her direct supervisor and ask for one, or will that scare the supervisor into thinking the contractor is looking to bail on them before the contract is up? Also, what if one doesn't trust the people he/she works for and fears they may badmouth hi/her?

In teh case of a contractor, there should be no issue getting a written reference once the job is completed. Any employer, even a temp one, should realize this, if not they aren't worth working with or offering as a reference anyway.

IN the case of trusting what people will say, that's EXACTLY why you should get a written copy BEFORE moving on. After you leave you could be degraded to others by your former employer if he/she is malicious and pissy.

Case in point, before I left my last position, I had one of the product Business Development Managers write me a nice letter, we worked closely together and he knew my work habits/abilities.

Once I left, then successfully sued the company ($$$), the staff were warned not to converse with me, they were asked to sign contracts in that they wouldn't conduct business with me or anything else (gotta love paranoid Frenchies).

But it doesn't matter one bit, I already had a stellar review in writing. Reasons for not offering current contact info? "I am not at liberty to discuss it due to legal issues", end of story. It's in writing already.

It's difficult to get people to write references... many of them have so much work to do, and composing a reference letter is so difficult for them, they just let it fall through the cracks.

I have found that it isn't necessarily what the reference is, but who they offer as a reference. Your bowling buddy isn't worth much, but the head of a former client or department chair from your former employer goes a long way in saying that you're not afraid of what someone will say about your actual work.

I use people I work with on a day to day basis, whether that is teh manager, owner, CEO, or even a department supervisor.

Listing the CEO, when you didn't work closely together is pretty useless too. I always choose a reference that is relevant to my work day.

As for a bowling buddy, personal references can be just as important as work, but I still see your point.

I always add a line at the end of my cover letter, that references are available on request. I consider my references a valuable resource and I make sure recruiters don't contact them as leads.

Give them to a pimp and they'll curse you forever.

I agree, I have two copies, one with references, that is sent when requested, and one that says references available upon request.

I don't care about giving leads to a recruiter, if they are that hard up, I wouldn't be dealing with them anyway.

I just don't want my references called by every knob that decides to run through my resume. Many will call your references before initially calling YOU. They use references as a screening process. This inundates your former employers and your references get shorter and weaker, with less though and focus on what you did while working there.

I actually like to keep a 'pool' of references and not use the same ones all the time. I have key references I use for going after those big deals and others for run of the mill jobs I think I'll tire of in 6 months to a year. That way I can use people I know will influence the conversation, or will get along with the interviewer better. Plus they don't get overwhelmed with calls that way either.

Yes, when requested. I've been in the job world for about 35 years and I have worked everything from a grocery clerk to an IT Consultant. First of all, I only provide references when asked, I do not include them on my resume. I believe that the resume should speak for itself and if they need additional information, that's what the job interview is for and I can provide references at that time, but again, if requested. So my resume will have a line at the bottom saying, "References availble upon reqeust."

Second, I would never include a reference that I did not get permission to use first. To not get permission is rude and presumptous. In fact, most of my references were from employers who said, "If you should need a reference, use my name."

Third, I think that a variety of references tells a lot. OK, maybe not the captain of the bowling team, but what is the point of a reference? In my opinion, references are not just about work, but they also speak of your character. Are you someone people trust and play well with others, someone they come to for help and are you someone willing to give of themself? Sometimes, a reference from a long-time friend can be a nice little bonus.

Just my opinion. Thanks.

For me I dont think they achieve anything. IF you get on well with the person you put as a referee then you wiull get a good reference and lets face it who would put down someone that they didnt get on with? I have never bothered with references when I was considering hiring someone. I think they are like the Dodo still remembered but pretty much dead useless

Anyway It is abit challenging since mankind is very difficulty to predict.The good person or former employer in the longrun can turn out to an obstacle to your job search.Therefore God have mercy on job hunters.

I am still supplying references on my resume. Is it a risk in doing to so or is it not necessary to do so any more. Must i just said by the section of references that they can obtain it from personally.

Here, we're always forced to put references on job applications - in most cases your application is rejected if there's no refs on it, regardless of the rest of the form / resume. And that's for the lowest paid temp jobs...

I always found it weird - because obviously lots of people are just going to put their friends as references and they'll lie over the phone to whoever calls them.

If you're previous / current jobs and places of study are listed, then a potential employer already knows where / who to contact to find out more about you anyway.

Plus - what if someone tries to discredit you behind your back, but to your face they behave as if they'd be fair and honest.
I've had that experience with someone that offered to be a ref for me - I'm glad I didn't use them because a little later they proved that they were in no way concerned about doing the right thing, in a different matter.

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