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Sci-fi rant: When did Star Wars jump the shark?

I got to see Star Wars when it first came out (granted, it was in utero, but still...I was there.) I guess maybe I was born with some Jedi Abilities (sadly, I'm not typing this with my mind, I guess not.)

I loved Star Wars growing up. I saw the movies dozens of times. Played with (my older brother's) SW toys (with the Darth Vader head for a case.) Had the mini starships. Played the Atari 2600 games, the PC games, etc. Had the comics. I was a mini-SW-junkie.

Then, they re-released the originals in the theatre, with enhancements. Sure, seemed cool at the time. Looking back? 2nd sign of a jump. I think part of the reason that made the movie so great was what they were able to do at the time. Don't mess with art!

Later, they released the Phantom Menace. I was so deluted to the fact that there was a new SW movie, it wasn't until the awe wore off when the DVD came out, and saw it then that I realized: this movie kinda sucks. 3rd jump. Another part of the reason that made the franchise awesome was the mystery of SW, of the Force, of Anakin.

Noticed I skipped the 1st jump: I think that belongs to the Christmas Special. Yikes!

Jar Jar

It started when Lucas realized how many toys he could sell based on the franchise, Ewoks, I can live with it, because the rest of the movie was so good, but IMO Jar Jar was created solely for the purpose of selling toys... He had no other purpose in the movie other than annoy the $hit out of me. But Jar Jar is officially when George Lucas fell out of touch with reality...and Star Wars jumped the Shark...

WiliiamK99 is right, but you don't go far enough. The ultimate Shark Jump is ......
"SENATOR Jar Jar Binks". Everything up to that point is a prelude to the finale.
As one who saw the originals in a theater in college, I enjoyed all 6 episodes. I recall taking my son and 4 or 5 of his friends to the midnight premire of the last 2 movies. Each is excellent as a stand-alone Sci Fi adventure. As a continuing story, they leave something to be desired, especially the 3-part prequel

Jar Jar was a natural. The reason he became a senator was because Padme was a political maven. The Gungans needed representation to keep them from attacking the Naboo. Not only was Binks a familiar face, a friend, but he was very agreeable and would fall in line behind her. No politically-savvy senator would have cast the deciding vote in granting the chancellor greater powers. So the character of Jar Jar Binks fits that role in the storyline perfectly.

It was definitely Jar Jar. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

I liked it much better when the Force and ones connection with it were not understandable and more a matter of faith.

Another thing...I really was dissappointed with Anakin's personality and acting. I can't quite figure out if the acting was so bad because of the script or if the story line seemed so bad because of the acting. He was portrayed more as a spoiled brat child. I think there should have been less whinning and more rebellion.

However, I still enjoy all the movies. We (me, the wife and the offspring) continue to hold SW marathons in my home.

Being a person old enough to remember seeing the first 3 on the big screen, Ewoks did it for me. ROTJ, had a really dark vib, quite scary when I was young (Oh, I how I loved it though!) then those teddy bears came on the scene, give me a break! Why wasn't it on Chewbacca's world, (ok for the purists, an empire world, with slave Wookies rebellion) would have made a better film and more fitting. (Similar lush jungle!)

Then Midaclorinetoothpaste (or whatever them things are called) grrr... it was spiritual and stupidly still is. Riddle me this, if tiny organisms are supposed to be doing the bidding of the force, which mind you still has a dark (bad) and light (good)side, why did calling them Mida... make it explainable? Why would microbes care, whether you are good or bad? It's still ultimately spiritual, unless the force turns out to be some space faring slug, I better shutup before GL, gets any ideas. Too stupid! It was easier to understand as an un-understandable, it gave it mystery!

Anakin ruined Darth Vader for me, look at a picture (or the films) and imagine Anakin as we NOW know him under the mask and it completely distroys the whole thing. Anakin is this brash and angry young man, he becomes Darth Vader and now he's evil, but terribly self controlled, no I don't buy it, Anakin ISN'T Darth Vader, their characters don't match! Anakin should have been Luke Skywalker, who had "Fallen", then it would have made the whole understanding of when Vader dies and takes off the mask, as being a repentant old man flow much better, the young Anakin wouldn't be like the dying Anakin, it just doesn't work!

My 2 cents! Extermiate all Ewoks, Oh and Jar Jar! (Take about Pi$$ off a SW fan!)

And see a movie that can be saved! There are other sites. Also look for The Phantom Edit that started it all.

Shark Jump was Greedo shooting first and missing from point blank range. Idiot! Changed Han's Character.

The Ewoks were too-cute. But Lucas wanted a battle of technically inferior vs a technically superior armay (a la Vietnam history buffs) Couldn't do it with the Wookies as they were made technically profficient when he decided to make Chewie Han's buddy and co pilot.
So I can forgive the Ewoks.

Although I like the scenario where Han preemptedly shot Greedo, it did not change the movie one bit. Why? Because the edit was done after the film (after the entire trilogy) was finished. Harrison Ford's acting did not change in tone after that scene because to Ford his character had killed Greedo in anticipation of Greedo's attack. Han was still a guy who broke the rules and saw himself as a free agent throughout that movie and the sequel. So no shark was jumped.

For me, it jumped the shark at "I am your father," and it
crashed into the fried chicken stand at "Leia is my sister."
Anyone out there old enough to recognize that reference?
Anyway, he went a long way to killing a good idea with those
two blunders. BTW, my wife says it was at "Laser brain," and
she makes a good point.

No text for the wicked.

is of course the infamous "Fonzie jumps over the cars in front of Arnolds" with his motorcycle. Which, ironically, is when Happy Days really jumped the shark, which, ironically, is a full three seasons before Fonzie ACTUALLY jumps a shark on water-skis.

Motorcycle jumping over cars is not jumping the shark because it is in the realm of possibility for a leather-clad motorcycle jockey. Actually jumping a shark was out of the realm of a mid-western motorcycle jockey skiing on a fresh water lake.

"Jumping the shark" is when the series is unexpectedly taken "off plot" and results in its cancellation. Example: Buck Rogers in the 25th Century based in New Chicago was suddenly switched to a deep space exploration ship via a MacGuffin, in this case a lost Earth colony.

The jump started with the remakes. Having greedo shoot first. That was the 1st jump.

Then it all went downhill from there.

I agree that midi-chlorions was the most obvious screwup. Instead of having anakin born with that stupid crap, george should have made the prequals more adult and had anakin's transformation more gradual and A LOT more dark. The killing of his mother and his transformation from there was passed over and so badly acted that it didn't really make much of a dent in my understanding of his character. THAT should have been the defining moment and it should have been focused on more closely. But alas, george had kids and became soft. That is what ruined for most of us I think.

Your a product of the zeitgeist. When Burton made 1989's Batman every guy wanted every action movie to go "dark". So tired. I'm glad Lucas didn't follow the fad. Christiansen is not a good actor. But let's face it, aside from Guiness, Ford, and Cushing, the actors in the first three films were mediocre at best. A better director would have brought us top-notch acting but my guess is that the whole experienced would've suffered by centering everything on characters.

I don't know which is worse, someone like Jay Garmon whining because the lowest common denominator can't grow up to be a Jedi in the STAR WARS universe, or the religious freaks on here complaining that Lucas stole their silly mythology. I hate to burst your little bubble, but Christianity borrowed the "virgin birth" myth from belief systems that predate the Jesus movement by centuries. If you're going to get offended by something, get offended by something real, like Natalie Portman's utter lack of talent.

The virgin birth was prophesied centuries before the ?Jesus movement? as you call it. Refer to the writings of the Hebrew Prophet named Isaiah who prophesied from about 742 BC to at least 701 BC.

This was not borrowed by Christianity. The virgin birth of Christ is an integral part of our heritage and faith, much of which is grounded in Hebrew writings.

I have to admit...I was appalled when Qui-Gon dropped the word on screen. Why did it have to be "Explained"
there are plenty of other ways The Force could have been identified in Anikin. Tipping my hat to George, and his imagination, P.M. was a little too over commercialized, for my taste...a too cute, but kind of slow amphibioid? A 10 year old super genius & Anti-Grav Formula One racer. A teenage Empress in clown make up? Enjoyed the show but the franchise "dissened" me...GT

Ewoks.

'Nuff said.

Wrong. SW jumped the shark with ROTJ.

I thought Phantom Menace was solid. It was certainly not up to the standard of the original series but it was still a decent story and maintained some of the fun and the spirit of the franchise (as long you disregarded the Midi-chlorians bit).

AOTC and ROTJ were simply horrible. Really bad storytelling and character development and I just could not stomach Anakin's incessant whining. By the end, the story wasn't as tragic as it should have felt -- it made you practically want to beg Obi Wan to finish Anakin. Please! Make it so we don't have to hear his whiny little rants ever again!

I actually think that Phantom Menace was under-rated as a film, mainly due to the fact that it was always going to be judged against the originals. Judge it on its own, and its a decent film.

It wasn't without its faults though. The fact that Qui-Gon was Obi-Wan's master went against what the original series had said, as in the original we are lead to believe that Yoda trained Obi-Wan, there was never any mention of Qui-Gon.

I think the whole story in the "new" trilogy was told quite well. It's just a shame they got a rubbish actor to play Anakin.

Lucas considered Comparative Mythologist Joseph Campbell (www.jcf.org) his "Yoda", and consulted his works when writing Star Wars. One of Campbell's central tenets was the folly of "concretising" religious and mythical stories, ie. taking them as literal, thus destroying their true power to move the human psyche. The concept of "midichlorians" brings the mystic power of the Force too close to a mechanical, mundane concept. So yeh, I agree...it sucks!

Joseph Campbell? Lucas? I didn't need to know that. I suppose he read Harold Loomis also? Whoa!

What is your problem with that? The guy is a genius of mythology. Check out his books and the documentary. It's quite interesting.

Campbell's "Hero with a thousand faces" is a must read for anyone interested in epic stories or mythology.

So Return of the Jedi came close to jumping the shark, what with all the Ewok shenanigans. But there was still so much cool in Jedi that it didn't quite get there.

Phantom Menace was an all-out suckfest, true, but it was actually all of the folling around Lucas did in the meantime that hosed the franchise. The Special Editions, with all of their "Greedo shot first" retconning and goofy CGI additions, coupled with refusing to put out the originals on DVD... That's when it became clear Lucas had transitioned from skilled storyteller to trash marketer.

the shark jump for me was when they had Yoda battling the Count in Attack of the Clones. It immediately removed any dignity that might have existed for the character. The ridiculous light saber battle looked like what it was; a muppet being jerked around the set with a light saber glued to his hands. I have 5 sons and decided not to spoil their Star Wars experience by having them see Attack of the clones or the Darth Vader story that came next. Natalie Portman can't act ( I think Carrie Fisher makes her look bad) and Hayden C. may be the worst actor ever on screen. Someone has got to tell George the truth. I think he (Lucas) surrounded himself with yes men and no one had the courage to tell him that the story sucked.

How would a light saber battle between yoda and ANYONE look? Yeah probably ridiculous but we had to see yoda in action. So i disagree with that. However, your assessment of natalie portman and hayden c. is dead on. Two of the worst actors I have ever seen and they ruined the prequals. I found jar jar binks' to be more believable than those two.

Yoda was made entirely CG after PM. He was not a muppet being yanked around at all.

was one of the highlights in the movie...

Ewoks. Ewoks, for crying out loud. Beating stormtroopers no less. George Lucas forcing the screenwriters to put Ewoks into ROTJ was plenty of warning for how truly wretched the prequel trilogy would be. ..bruce..

Good Gravy,
I thank the stars that the folks who developed the Star Wars Battlefront video game were keen enough to add some of those Jar Jar characters into it.

This allows me the unprecidented opportunity to virtually gun down those idiotic, annoying, bug-eyed, broken Jamaican-dialected (trust me, that fact wasn't lost on West Indian folks) simpletons that burst my Star Wars bubble! Jar Jar was the shark jump to end all shark jumps.

I was a twenty-something when Star Wars first hit the big screen in 1977. I sat there with my jaw dropped in total awe at the very first scene as the Imperial Cruiser appeared from the top of the screen. I went at least another 6 times to see that movie in the theater before its run was over. I was hooked. When I heard of a second episode, I couldn't wait for it to be released. But I was skeptical about the sequel as I am of all movie sequels.

Again I was blown away, not only by the visuals but by the story as well. I never thought that Empire Strikes Back would top Star Wars, but it did, and again, I went to repeated showings in the theater. A short time later, there was news of a third episode. Wow! By this time I bought a VCR and my first video I bought was Star Wars in full screen (boo.) It cost me 80 bucks at the time, but I was happy to spend it and enjoy Star Wars whenever I wanted.

By the time Return of the Jedi was released I was no longer a twenty-something and my year old son was already playing with Star Wars merchandise. I still eagerly awaited the Episode 6 as it was now being called. But I wasn't prepared for the let down. Gone were the stunning visuals, replaced by a "puppet show", at least in the first half of the movie. It didn't jump into hyperspace, it jumped the shark. The terrific visuals in the second half couldn't bring me back from the initial let down. The story, by that time, was too predictable and commonplace.

Years later when Episode 1 was released, yeah I went to see it in the theater, this time with my sons. I wasn't disappointed though. I didn't expect much and that's what we got. Episode 2 was revolting. By the time Episode 3 was released, I wasn't about to spend good bucks on what I thought would be a bad flick. I didn't want to buy the DVD, but my oldest son did and I saw it at home for the first time. It's been in the box ever since.

I recently purchased the theatrical release of Episodes 4, 5, and 6 on DVD (widescreen versions of course.) Episodes 4, and 5 have seen more play time than 1, 2, and 3. I thought that some the updated versions of the originals were a waste of time, money and technology and better left undone. I groaned when I first heard Han Solo tell Jabba, "You're one fine human being."

one word - EWOKS!

I liked the whole Star Wars set, because I have long since learned how to forgive gaffs and just enjoy the movie. Jar-Jar was a bit of a stretch, but I could even go with the marketing ploy and just have fun with it. But what really bugged the snot out of me was how Anakin was born. No father, Mom just became pregnant. George, is that all you could think of was to hitchhike Christianity like that? Yoda was super-old, why not just make him the dad? Ewww.... never mind. But that whole scene should've just been left out. Just leave it as a mystery.

I agree that the virgin birth of Anakin was a baaaaaad moment for the franchise. As a Christian, I'd have to say it was the worst.

But the shark was being jumped long before that; the immaculate conception was a kicking in of booster rockets far above the surface of the water.

The ramp to jump the shark was built of a number of events, many already referred to in other posts. I think the ramp started with the Ewoks and reached its zenith in PM (pick your spot in that movie where it went airborne).


As a Christian, I was extremely offended at the whole virgin birth deal.

The Immaculate Conception refers to the birth of Mary (w/o the stain of original sin), NOT the virgin birth. I've won drinks over that one.

Ok, I'll bite. On what do you base that idea? There's nothing Biblical to support that assertion, nor the idea that Mary was sinless.

BTW, definitely the mita-clorians. Sounds like some galactic swimming pool cleaner. Why try to justify or explain something that was more meaningful when it was unknown?

They should have had palpatine rape anakin's mother and then the seed of evil would have started at conception. His struggle to become good would have been more entertaining than george's lame attempts to show his decent into darkness. The problem was that the originals were more pg-13 and the prequals should have gone the r route instead of the g route. They could have stood out as sci-fi epic masterpieces instead of devolving into utter crap.

the new trilogy. think back just a couple of years previous. They released the improved, digitally remastered Star Wars trilogy, with some new effects.

Ok, overall, they were pretty good. But think back to Han Solo on Tattoine, going to his ship, and guess who is awaiting. Yes, none other than Jabba the Hut. This scene should have never been added. Basically it gives Han a free pass to pay, once his run is complete.
So now, there is no reason for the rest of the Han Hunting. Han got paid, and had the time to pay off Jabba....
Also, it puts Jabba in some new light. He is a giant Wussy.
This scene almost ruines 3 movies by itself....

George Lucas's moment of perfection was the first movie. If he'd left it there and done nothing else, it would have gone down in history as another 2001 or Forbidden Planet. TESB was a bit of an improvement, certainly a worthy film, a ROTJ, while not as good as its predecessors, was a good ending to the series.

I'm grateful for episodes 1, 2 and 3 because they tell the complete story. There are definite worthy additions to the SW universe in them. Anakin is fairly awful throughout, but Padme gets better as the movies go on. ATC is definitely the best of the three, which isn't saying much. I just wish my 13 year old was as much in love with the original trilogy as he is with the new trilogy. A parent can only do so much...

I liked the entire trilogy. However, ROTJ could have been much better, I thought it a disappointment when I first saw it.

The I, II, III trilogy ruined most of it completely. Sure there was action, but too many problems with the story. Yes, it told a 'new version' for what happened, but they screwed up a lot of details in trying. NAd it brought more questions.

One main problem I had was Palpatine with the Midi-Chlorians. C'mon, what a load...

Here is a question that comes up. If everyone is tested at birth for Midi-Chlorian levels, then how come nobody knew that Palpatine had them. One could answer that he was from a non regulated system. In that case though, how did he become a Senator?

Just one of the many BS things that were done to screw up (I mean explain) everything.

Shortly after his secret birth, he was taken in a basket and hidden near a river in tall reeds...

Remember when Endor was supposed to be Chewie's home world? That final battle was supposed to be between Wookies & the Empire.

Then someone at Lucafilm decided that cute little teddy-bears would sell better on the after market than toy Wookies.

It was a mis-calculation; the teddy-bear market was already saturated that year.