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    <title><![CDATA[Discussion on Should you charge more when you don't know what you're doing? ]]></title>
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        <title><![CDATA[Subcontractors to the rescue]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-3761009]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[As a MSP servicing mostly small with a few mid-sized business, I see this all the time.  We have to be generalists by nature since we support law offices, doctors, and even some manufacturing facilities.  Our customers know that we can't do everything and we don't try.  We function more like general contractors.  Anything that we can do &quot;in-house&quot; we do, but we don't hesitate to hire specialists as needed.  Our customers simply want us to &quot;deal with it&quot;.  They wouldn't know where to start, how much it should cost, or who to call.  That's we they pay us.  We hire and pay the specialist and are their contact with the company.  They usually discount their rates for us since they want our repeat business.  Also, they get to deal with us instead of an unsure customer.  It's a win for everyone.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-3761009]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[rcosby]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 06 May 2013 06:18:26 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[RE: Should you charge more when you don't know what you're doing?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-3180214]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I am new to freelance consulting and am still figuring some things out.  Since work is scarce, I have been getting involved in projects that are outside my immediate scope of knowledge.  When I am doing more learning than creating, I lower my rate.  I am always thinking about how much value I provided to my clients, each day.  Since I am getting into development more, I have to get used to the fact that creating value sometimes takes a little/lot longer than just a day or even a few hours.  Like I said, I'm learning.  I truly appreciate this forum because I am learning a lot.  Not only that, but I feel a little more comfortable, even vindicated, knowing that other people struggle with some of the same issues I do.  Thanks ya'll!]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-3180214]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Hillyman]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 12 Oct 2009 15:11:30 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Perhaps that;s part of the point]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2504206]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[... with technology changing as rapidly as it is, you can never know everything well.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2504206]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Sterling "chip" Camden]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 14:09:48 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[RE: Should you charge more when you don't know what you're doing?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2502922]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Don't think it's appropriate to charge a client formy ignorance. Sometimes though you go to school onthe clients dime. I guess when I learn everything,then the appropriate charge can be assessed.  ]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2502922]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[cliftz@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 09:27:46 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Charge more time at same rate]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2384250]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[If I charge an hour rate, I simply charge all the time at the same rate. If I charge fix bid, I crank up a lot the estimation of time required to cover the risks.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2384250]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[pzkfwg@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:12:32 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Very well put]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2383295]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[That does, and should, determine the urgency of all other factors.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2383295]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Sterling "chip" Camden]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:40:35 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[good post, good break-down]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2383251]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I like the way you broke it down.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2383251]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Professor8]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:39:18 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[It depends...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2383249]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[OK, sometimes, if it's for a friend, I only charge for productive hours and not for the research time.  If it's business, I try to let them know it's going to require a usually unknown amount of research and experimentation, suggest that they bring on a specialist, provide some materials or education or training, then I charge at the regular rate, giving them status reports and sometimes bits of what I've learned.Actually, I don't generally &quot;charge a rate&quot; since I hate being body shopped, but if the body shopping relationship is being coerced I start multiplying what I'd charge if I were a real employee.  First, I have to double just to cover a fraction of the benefits a real employee would have, not to mention covering unpaid down-time, vacation, etc.  If it's COBOL or Ill-Begotten Monstrosities or M$ or some other evil is involved, then the rate goes up by orders of magnitude... or I just turn then down flat.If it's something especially worthwhile and interesting I shave off a bit from rate or time charged.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2383249]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Professor8]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:31:53 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Depends on many factors]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2382422]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Like a few others have posted, it depends.- Is it something you should know or want to learn?- Is it going to do any good for the future if you learn it?- What would it take in time and money to outsource that work?- How important is this customer to you?- Do you have time?- Do you want to do it?I've faced this situation many times in my website design. In most of my cases, the &quot;How important is this customer to you?&quot; is the main factor. That determines how important the rest of the factors are.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2382422]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[techrepublic@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:00:28 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[COBOL]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2381313]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[It would take a WHOLE LOTTA MOOLAH to make me go back to COBOL, that's for sure.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2381313]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Sterling "chip" Camden]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:56:13 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[RE: Should you charge more when you don't know what you're doing]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380655]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I have not read all the threads. What I have found that works for me is:1. A new skill set I want to learn. I am usually doing something I can to already learn. A client who needs those skills, well I discuss this with them. They need to know my level of experitise as well as my own intiative to gain the skillset to make a good business decision. Compromises often are the result with contractual agreements to 'nail down' the deliverables. Some jobs will be lost but overall people seem to value honesty and one gets repeat business.2. Something I do not want to do. Quickly tell them I am not able to do that and hopefully I will have someone I can refer them to.Bottom line, I get very frustrated when someone I have hired to do a job is not honest with me about cost, time, and their ability. I do not like it! Why should anybody else?]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380655]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[too_old]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:47:30 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[It Depends on ...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380433]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[the answer is, &quot;it depends&quot; ... if I'm asked to perform work that I don't know how to do and there is ample available talent to do that work, I will probably &quot;chew the time&quot; and not bill for learning what, in effect, I was already expected to know (from a market perspective).  The exception would be where I don't particularly want to learn the new skill and tell the client directly that I will require some ramp-up time and have to charge for it ... if they agree, all is well in my book.In cases where a technology is new and there is NOT ample talent available I think the client should pay for the ramp-up, period ... I'd also be happy to offer an alternative with less ramp-up and lower cost.Time costs money.  It's the only thing we have to sell.  If we don't bill that time I guarantee clients will present an ever-increasing list of demands, sometimes on a whim.Does anyone seriously think their corporate clients don't charge THEIR customers for R&amp;D or training, either directly or indirectly?]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380433]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[herlizness@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:04:57 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[RE: Should you charge more when you don't know what you're doing?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380363]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I do not &amp; will not raise my rate if it is something that (1)be an valuable asset for me to learn it that benefits me &amp; customers in future jobs, (2)I only make my self more valuable in most people's perception as &quot;higher price = highly knowledgeable/valuable &amp; (3)My value &amp; morals that are based on the fact that I should not take advantage of others at their point of weaknesss - they ask for your help in solving the issue. One should have a standard that the I.T industry lacks alot. Lets increase the integrity and morality for the whole industry of Consultants/System Integrators/technicians etc.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380363]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[DIFS]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:56:55 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[RE: Should you charge more when you don't know what you're doing?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380330]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I reduce my number of billable hours to reflect that I needed to perform research outside of the scope of the project.  Basically, I invoice for the full accounting of time I spent on the project, then discount for anything that required me to learn something new.  This shows the client the value I am providing and the willingness to try to find a solution to their needs outside of my technical comfort zone]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380330]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[billbo01028]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:51:34 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[yeah this makes a lot of sense]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380316]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[If you want someone to code cobol on your VAX well ... pay up.This makes huge sense if it is a long term project, and I'd seriously consider if I'd do the project at all. Reason: next client or employer asks do you have any experience with (pick a newer technology), and you have to say actually I was writting flat file code for a VAX/VMS system for the last two years, so no. Your knowledge is depreciating over the time that you aren't using current technologies so you have to recoup some of that cost (because you might have to go out and take some courses, or do some low billable work for a bit to get back up to date.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380316]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[MikeGall]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 06:48:52 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[RE: Should you charge more when you don't know what you're doing?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380234]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[There has been time when I was assigned a tasked outside of my scope. When this happens, I have informed the client of such and told them that it will take extra time in the research and dedication towards the clients goal in this area. In most cases the client understands  this, will except the extra time involved and only wants progress reports. My clients seems to understand that it is like customization. Customization cost more because it is outside of the norm and takes extras either in time, resources, or material if not all. This goes for just about all areas so in my case, the rate stays the same but there is extra time involved.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380234]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[billsommerville@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 03:59:53 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[RE: Should you charge more when you don't know what you're doing?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380225]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[This really depends on what kind of clients I am facing. As a software development consultant, the clients I met falls into two main categories:1. they only have a big picture about what they are going to do or some unclear goals to achieve with no detailed business rules, knowing very little about what software development is AND ALWAYS THINK THAT COMPUTERS CAN DO EVERYTHING FOR THEM.2. they can do the coding themselves, they just want to make sure that they don't waste time on something stupid or &quot;unproductive&quot;.And for the first case, I will definitely raise my rate sky high for two reasons: one is to push them to think so everyone in the project can have a clear scope and goal about what they will have; another one is in case that I have to do everything myself (including to discuss some important issues with the head who really pays me, this kind of situation happen very often in Taiwan, instead of asking their boss what really needs to be done, the employees prefer to guess ALL TIME TIME)And for the second category, I would be honest to the clients. In most cases, they trust that I can learn those new stuffs faster than their team does, so I won't raise my rate a bit. And in a very few cases, my clients even willing to pay me for just evaluating new technologies for them. If those new technologies are what I am interested in, I would surely lower my rate a bit.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380225]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[weising]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 03:15:58 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA['sallright]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380033]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[An idea doesn't have to be original to be good.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2380033]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Sterling "chip" Camden]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 11:05:59 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[I honestly hadn't read LL's post]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2379439]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I would hate to be accused of hijacking someone else's idea.But considering that he and I have had other perspectives in common I guess I shouldn't be surprised.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2379439]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[royhayward@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 15:34:07 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Makes sense to me]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2379435]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[... and is similar to what Locrian_Lyric said above.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-247060-2379435]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Sterling "chip" Camden]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:54:59 -0800</pubDate>
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