Discussion on:

How to become a real Guru: The Microsoft Certified Architect Program

but I thought MS was doing away with the MCSE in the near future. Or drastically changing it? How does that effect the prequalifiers listed in the article?

It's true that Microsoft is changing their Certification program and that there will be no MCSE certification for Server 2008. MS seems to be doing away with the rather generic MCSE in favor of set of Role-specific MCITP (Microsoft Certified IT Professional) certifications. I am willing to bet that the MCA program for messaging will be changed to allow those who attain the MCITP: Enterprise Messaging Administrator certificationto apply for the MCA.

I consider myself to be pretty knowledgeable with microsoft AD/Exchange infrastructure but i am not sure that a 10 - 25k investment would be a good investment or that it would have a good ROI on my career. Unless that employers start reimbursing for this cert, but it seems high for most.

I guess only time will tell.

Unless you are working as a consultant, which allows your organization to use this new cert as a selling point to its customers, I think it is safe to assume you could forgo the MCA and just focus on achieving the other certs for administrator roles.

We spend 10 to 15 THOUSAND just so we can sell more M$ products?
For that kind of money I could do a lot more and push any product that I want. Also, the problem with other MCAs testing is that if you don't appeal to them then your out. With real testing at least you can show were you answered the questions right. With an interview you could be screwed before you even start.

A few sarcastic comments...
"Have a 300-level knowledge of Exchange Server..."
Don't they know that the max skill is 375? (For WoW fans)
"Give them a pile of money"
After all, that is the MS way.
"Be fluent in English"
Not touching that one.

I heard MS was overhauling their certifications as well. I'm graduating with a BBA in MIS this weekend, and I would love to get some certs, but not if they keep changing. Though this one would seem to be the be-all-end-all certification.

Most notable technology certifications expire every 3-8 years on average. There are exceptions, like CompTIA certs, but they are all considered entry-level certs, and are normally looked at as nothing more than resume fodder. If you want a end-all cert that you can apply to the business side of things, I suggest looking at ITIL (which I believe does not expire) or others certifications that do not expire.

$25000 up front... Think I'll pass..

I seriously doubt alot of people are going to pay for this cert out of their own pockets. This program seems designed with the idea that various companies will cover the cost of sponsoring their top Admins and Engineers for the Certification. I suspect there will be significant incentives offered by Microsoft to companies that employee MCAs in much the same manner that Cisco offers incentives to partners who have a certain number of Cisco certified employees on staff.

Why would a company pay $25,000 plus travel and accommodations to certify someone who is already working for them? When I worked for a Fortune 100 company, they would arrange in-house training. The same lessons passed onto multiple employees at a much cheaper cost. But nobody got an official certificate. And consultants, who live and die by the mighty dollar, will hire someone already certified. And then they still have the nerve to charge extra for the lettered suffixes.
This is interesting... the fundamentals I learned in college are still relevant today. Yet, all the knowledge passed on by Microsoft and its army of wannabees is apparently useless in short time. Miraculously, a fist of dollars can always revive the knowledge for a brief period.
Aside from my college degree, I once had over a dozen hardware and software certificates. Now, I use them to line the bottom of a birdcage. Best use I ever got from them.

If it is followed up from a job offer from MS with 6 figure package...........as part of the deal.

I'm MCSE 2003 certified and I already made close to $130,000 gross on my last contract because I also have extensive hardware and systems integration experience. Anyone not already pulling in six figures as an MCSE is not automatically going to see six figures by getting this pathetic excuse for a certification. I don't see the ROI by spending $25K on what I see as a gamble.

I think most employers won't give a rat's arse about it and won't even spend money to send any of their employees to get certified. At $25,000, the only ones who will bother with this are those who already own their own business and have $25,000 to burn and write off, or some spoiled rich kid whose parents have money to burn. I for one will not be wasting my time or energy on this nonsense and would rather spend $1,000 to get a CCIE instead. This is really arrogance on the part of MS to do this.

Am you?

Dunno. Me be qualified?

May be us all be qualified?

The MCA program for the Solutions track is way too fuzzy and not structured. I've been thinking for a while to pursue the MCA but never went as far as pursuing it. I may be a good architect (or not?) at my work but due to the fuzziness in the MS program how do I know that I fit into the board's idea about what a good Architect is?

Risking $10,000 on a fuzzy and unstructured Microsoft certification is pure gambling.

The risk is higher than the reward. Who wants to pay for certification by review board?

Other than image for holding an exclusive 'title', where is the incentive? Will people understand MCA's are more qualified at X than those without?

There are so many certs to choose from, why MCA? WIIFM?

I will be impressed if this certification takes off.

I wonder how much money the MCA's on the review board earn for their service. Do you think its a 4-way-split? Seriously, $2500 for a 2 hour interview is not bad. That's 2.5 million dollars per year I'd have to start my own company if I had that kind of cash laying around. I think my company would branch into VoIP, spam filtering, and MMORPG.

My wife is a physician. She recently passed the written part of the Board Exam. In a year or so she MUST pass the oral examination, she will not stop being a doctor if she fails but she will have a hard time keeping her privileges in the hospitals, this is the law in Texas!

I would not mind having to take an exam as hard as the physician's board exam IF we had the same amount of materials and help with the study. After all it is not just an assessment exam; it is also an opportunity to learn.

Spending 10k on a bet and hoping a board of 4-5 people will like me is too much gambling and I do not see much benefit in that.

I just saw recently IASA trying to put together training to helpe architects become real Architects:

http://www.iasahome.org


I'll wait to see what they do in a year or so and if it is worthy then I may spend my money on that.

At this rate, the only people to practice IT are the ones who are already millionaires and are CEOs' or CTOs' who have $25K to gamble away. Let's just hope employers won't buy into this stupidity and see it as nothing more than a bragging right. Knowing how those morons in HR work, they'll probably buy into stupidity and will throw out resumes that don't display this certification. It's truly said at what's happening in IT and at this rate, I think I'll be switching careers very soon.

I think the cost is absurd. Why spend so much money for a certification when the technology is going to change in a few years anyways? I made the decision to pursue my Masters degree in CIS opposed to certifications. End Result: Im inundated with job offers. Anyone can get a certification, but not everyone can go to a University for 6 years. DEGREE >> CERTIFICATION.

The thing with Microsoft platform or even Cisco infrastructure is that without any experience you haven't a clue.

I've seen college grads use Group Policy and OUs as a means to secure file and folder access. I've seen them remove all computers from the computers OU , then wondering why Group Policy doesn't apply....

I've seen college grads who didn't have the first idea of DNS, DNS Zones, names spaces , A records, PTR records.

On Cisco equipment, they didn't have the first idea of how to connect to the router or switch using the console port.

and most of all, I found college grads to have a somewhat prima donna attitude even when clearly, they didn't know what they were doing.

when they don't know jack )#_^#@ about anything and get all defensive when us seasoned pros point out their shortcomings. I hate working with people who aren't humble and think they know everything when in reality, they don't know squat. I recall back in the 90s' when I was tasked to work with a so called "NT4 MCSE". Anyhow, we had a crashed NT4 server because the RAID controller on the Compaq server died. This self professed "expert" of an MCSE quickly runs to get an NT4 CD in a pathetic attempt to repair the OS. I told him that it's not the OS that's the issue, but that the RAID controller had failed and needed to be replaced because the system was not seeing the logical drive that the OS was on. The guy looked at me like I had 3 heads and had no clue what I was talking about. Yeah, he was one of those fresh out of college kids who went to those boot camps and got his MCSE by memorizing answers and questions from the braindumps instead of actually knowing anything about NT4 or server hardware.

Who came to tell me how the new owner's computer systems work and how to interface to them, who after I explained the proposed plan said.

Just one thing Tony, What's TCP/IP ?

I did the NT3.51 Admin course, got a lot out of it, in terms of of How To's compared to VMS.

He was a paper cert, but put him to task, he wouldn't know where to begin and would stick his head in the sand like an ostrich.

I'm going to have to agree with Leonard. I've been in the IT industry for close to 20 years and have been certified on various Unix platforms as well as Microsoft (beginning with my Microsoft NT 3.51 Server MCSE). Over the years I've become increasingly disenchanted with the way all these paper have diluted the value of those certifications. The only certifications I think have real value these days are Cisco's CCIE, a few of the GIAC certs, and maybe the CISSP. After 20 years I decided to go for my post-graduate degree in information security. It was a brutal four years (had to work go and to school part time) but well worth the effort as it gave me a definite edge when I interviewed for my current position. To be fair, that degree wouldn't be worth as much without all the experience I've had behind it. Candidates fresh out of college will typically lose out to those with more experience, unless the employer is trying to save money. But if someone with experience ever asks me which certification they should get, I'd have to say... go for a Masters Degree or MBA in CIS from a vetted college or university. You'll qualify for far more opportunities than with just a vendor certification or two.

I personally knew an MSFT employee who recently obtained the SQL Server Ranger title. Technical guru? I have no doubt. Technical architect with non-MS technologies? I doubted.
Besides MSFT employees, who can afford 4 weeks on-campus training plus $25K? Ridiculously funny program. I will pass on this certificate.

Trying to outpace the CCIE Track?

Hi Jeremy,

I have always somewhat been confused about the backdrop of a MCSE certification with all the different terms flying around. So what's the latest on the MCSE saga?

Thanks for your elaboration.