Discussion on:

Cisco's CCIE is no longer the biggest cash cow of IT certification

Do you remember when IT pros spoke about the CCIE in quiet reverence? What do you think about PMP taking the top spot?

Original post:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=607

The scary part of averages is that for all who are making good money as a CCIE, there are apparantly just as many people making not-so-good money in order to average out like that.

On the other hand, your article and the distribution of CCIE's goes worldwide. So a US-based salary idea really isn't much bearing for those who live in different countries.

I'm not sure the worldwide distribution of PMP's compared to CCIE's, but it would be interesting to see that salary "weighting" be carried in the next salary survey.

Just my two cents. The sky isn't falling.

They are still in demand and are still making very good money.

It's just not the king of certifications any more, and it doesn't hold the iconic place in the industry that it did 5-10 years ago.

... is that when economies cool off the amount of projects to manage decrease. With less and less projects to manage you need less project managers. Being in an a field that is largely dependent on the health of the economy is a tuff field to be in.

There will always be network infrastructure to keep running

Anytime soon. There's a shortage of Project Managers all over the world right now, even with the current economy... Additionally, Project Managers are right now a necessity and now longer a luxury. You cannot get anything done right now without a Project Manager.

What happens when money gets tight is that some IT projects do not get their funding, and the project is put on hold, de-scoped, or canceled. If the project is not active, you don;t need to spend money on a PM, and when there are a lot of PMs on the sidelines, you may consider bringing one on board as a contractor, instead of as an employee, when a new project launches.

I would say that project management skills at a medium organizational lower level is a particularly strong tool for getting IT projects completed. At the higher organizational levels, however, such as managing all IT projects across a company, I think the jury is still out. I have definitely seen examples where the PM rigor at the overall level became bureaucracy which thwarted progress from a business user point of view... mountains made of molehills, only a limited number of mountains allowed on the radar, and then progress in climbing the mountains tracked at a meaningless level.

... but that might be a centralization problem... toward centralization for control, back toward decentralization for execution, the trends are cyclical.

Overall, some project management rigor can really pay off.

outstanding response. Thanks!

The value of the CCIE has weathered all types of storms in terms of demand and still has business and even acedemic credibility. The PMP is great, but there are more and more PMPs floding the market. I know PMPs with five to ten years of experience that are working at Home Deopt becuase of the economic conditions. But the folks that I know that are CCIE certiified are still in high demand.

Just a few years ago this was not an IT skillset, and most people seeking this cert. did not have a clue about IT. Project managers with no clue about IT integration capacity and the like have now fully infiltrated our world, only to keep our professonal salaries and skills at bay when compared to thiers. Funny how things have changed thanks to a few envious Ivy league grads entering the market with IT envy; folk who replace us in a heartbeat with a well written automation program.

Screw all those who follow suit with this obvious attempt to monopolize on those with legitimate IT skills, not just CRM, or Project applications apptitude!

I think like any certification, whether it is CCIE, MCSE, and now PMP, you do have to have the right experience to complete that project successfully. Being a PMP and was formerly a system administrator for both Windows and UNIX platforms, when it comes to managing any technical projects, having those technical experience help tremendously to get them completed successfully.

When it comes down to it, you still have to know your stuff to be a good CCIE or PMP...the certification helps you get in the door or on that project, you still have to prove yourself...and NO, not everyone is from an Ivy League college.

Ok, whom ever decided to place a PMI, CAPM and CISSP in the Technical Certifications bucket is obviously not technical. I currently hold a BS in CIS, a MS in IST from GWU, CCNP, CCSP, CCIP, CCDP, MCSE, GSA CIO, and have passed the CCIE Written for Routing and Switching. I am also a CCSI Cisco Certified Systems Instructor, which means I teach Cisco Courses. So being Highly technical myself only makes me laugh when someone tries to put a PMP, CAPM and a CISSP and refer to them as technical. Their is nothing technical about them at all, those are all management Certifications. The only thing which remotely can be considered technical about the CISSP is when they ask you what type of encryption you should use to protect something. The CISSP exam is 250 Multiple Choice questions! Takes about 4 hours to do, most of that time is putting Dark Lead Pencil Number 2 Circles on the answer sheet. Give me a break CISSP's are a a joke!! I have meet many whom have never even installed a network or created an infrastructure of any kind, but yet because they have a CISSP they are a Security Professionals, ya right. Other than that give me a break. The CCIE is still the most revered and coveted Certification on the planet. $93,000.00??? Where are you getting your salary inputs from Alabama, or Mississippi?? Most of the CCIE's I know have to turn down work, and wouldn't have time to even complete your salary survey. I would like you all to print a retraction, comparing the CISSP to the CCIE is like comparing a Ph.D. to a Highschool Graduate, give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Serously you need to recant this article I am having way to much fun laughing at it. TP

Absolutely brilliant response. There is no comparison at all between the CISSP and a CCIE. Some of these article writers just come on this forum and spout garbage just to feel relevant in a discussion. What utter nonsense MAKING SUCH A COMPARISON!!!
The writer of this comparison needs to retract this and go back into the field and do some more research and learning.
Don't bother to repost anything in praise of CCIE for correction. It's not needed. Just go out and talk to people in the field and get a REAL perspective of technology certs.

Just go out and talk to people in the field and get a REAL perspective of technology certs.

The data came from a survey of (guess who?) people in the field.

There's a link to the survey in the article; the first few pages discuss the methodology.

Really? Came from a survey of real people... Heard of anything called "statistical sampling"? I know that may be a hard term, but I'm pretty sure that even PMPs should be aware of the concept.

You have a voluntary survey of people who may or may not show up, and may or may not tell the truth since nothing is verified.

I could put in that I have a CCNA and earn $325,0000 a year. Kinda skews things, ya think? They may throw out "obvious" ones like that, but it doesn't take much to skew the statistics either way.

I'll go with the other approach. And good CCIE was likely too busy working to bother filling out the survey. I know I was last year.

So if someone wants to take a REAL survey and REALLY set the statistics up to be realistic and VERIFIED then perhaps I'll believe it. In the meantime, given many of the PMPs I happen to know...

I'd say SOMEONE is way over-paying for something that shouldn't be that difficult is plan is well developed. (e.g. poor planning = more management)

Just my two cents.

Scott

The party's over. Go back to work.

Your point is excellent. There are problems with the survey methodology, but that is no reason to attack the competence or question the motives of the blog writer, as the previous poster did.

I didn't read the previous message as an attack. I guess it's all in perceived tonality.

Needing to go back and do research to support any particular point rather than relying on the "reality" of the survey isn't a bad idea.

Dunno, guess getting back into work is good. Mailing lists provide much needed breaks once and a while. Too busy otherwise.

"Ok, whom ever decided to place a PMI, CAPM and CISSP in the Technical Certifications bucket is obviously not technical."

Agreed that these are more higher-level, mostly non-technical, managerial certs.

"Give me a break CISSP's are a a joke!! I have meet many whom have never even installed a network or created an infrastructure of any kind, but yet because they have a CISSP they are a Security Professionals, ya right."

If the CISSP is such a joke, why is it consistently one of the top IT security certs, and why is demand still high? Also, given the breadth of material covered by the CISSP, no one has experience in all CISSP domains. So, being able to install a network as a requirement of the CISSP does not make sense for all who attain the cert (especially those with a physical security or policy backgroud). As you stated, this cert is more management-oriented.

Greetings All,

What are the best simulations exams for the 640-802 ?

I took the ccna 640-802 exam and received a 785 and needed a 825 to pass (44 questions). I prepared for this exam by making a lab with two 2650 routers and two 2950 switches. I read several books and completed both the Boson and Transcender practice exams with almost 100% correct on all the prep tests the first time around.

The problem is that the actual exam questions are far more complex then what the Boson and Transcender offered even though these exams are geared for the new CCNA exam.

Is there a better exam prep option? Iam going to purchase certmagic.com 640-802 as i heared great reviews about them. Anyone tried them? Let me know plz

Try the How2Pass test it's updated whenever there's new questions and Labs! Most "98%" of the actual questions are on the exam engine. Try it and Good luck

as the complexity grows so does specialization.

Also the what's hot now often makes salaries very high for what's hot. When it cools, then they drop. CCIEs was all the rage as the internet developed. Then MCSE to make company networks. Then DB guys. Now, it's project management...

Next is Web 2 video guys.

The best ones look like girls in bikinis.

Now I don't know a lot about these certificates - but surely a V3 Master is more difficult and up-to date than a V2 Foundation ?
Is this due to insufficient data (on my part - or the surveys) ?