or IT Professional Association like Accountants have?
I doubt that many would go for a union, from the track record of the many prior discussions on the subject.
But a Professional Association, Global in scope, that Certifies memebers, based on REAL skills, not on paper trail.
Something like the Trades apprenticeship [ plumber, elecrtician, masons [ concrete and stone work ] ] but not a Union.
Maybe calling it a Guild would also be an option.
[ though Hollywood's MPAA and the SAG etc have given even that term a bad odor ]
Something that works at promoting standards for IT Professionals, that promotes workig with standards complant software and that promotes meeting the legal requirements for data storage and protection.
Not an organisation involved in setting the standards for the industry, only in setting the standards for the skills of those working in it.
edited just because
Discussion on:
IT Union?
Tags: career
View:
Show:
as many of the places of employment would be small enough to be exempt from the rules and regulations.
Just like the little mom 'n pop store isn't required to pay minimum wage, same for the local geek shack.
The other problem is to not techs, what we do is easy and over rated anyways ( all you do is push some buttons all day ).
Just like the little mom 'n pop store isn't required to pay minimum wage, same for the local geek shack.
The other problem is to not techs, what we do is easy and over rated anyways ( all you do is push some buttons all day ).
those mom and pop stores do have to pay min wag here. even to the kids if they work the shop.
the labour codes are different everywhere.
This wouldn't be a small shop thing, not right away.
It would have to start in the enterprise locations and trickle out into smaller operations over time.
[ consultants, with years behind them in the industry would be among the first smaller businesses to be part of it. ]
getting a "trade" recognised and accepted as THE membership for the industry would be slow. Long term though, it would reduce a lot of the issues currently faced, since for it to be recognised the opinions of general public about IT would have to change.
The unions comments in the goodbye it thread, and a Billboard advertisement for "Certified Insurance Professionals" kind of suggest ed the idea as being appropriate.
the labour codes are different everywhere.
This wouldn't be a small shop thing, not right away.
It would have to start in the enterprise locations and trickle out into smaller operations over time.
[ consultants, with years behind them in the industry would be among the first smaller businesses to be part of it. ]
getting a "trade" recognised and accepted as THE membership for the industry would be slow. Long term though, it would reduce a lot of the issues currently faced, since for it to be recognised the opinions of general public about IT would have to change.
The unions comments in the goodbye it thread, and a Billboard advertisement for "Certified Insurance Professionals" kind of suggest ed the idea as being appropriate.
Such a board would have to be vendor neutral, and to promote vendor neutral training.
networking as opposed to a cisco or msne certification.
system admin as opposed to RHSE or MCSE
You know, the transferrable skills from one job to another, rather than the specifics for one vendor's products.
networking as opposed to a cisco or msne certification.
system admin as opposed to RHSE or MCSE
You know, the transferrable skills from one job to another, rather than the specifics for one vendor's products.
ones looking for a job are going to want to pay for more testing, especially if they just dropped $10,000+ for training for other certs?
This looks like a huge failing point for the whole idea.
This looks like a huge failing point for the whole idea.
But it would have to be unique in each country since the laws are different.
I would love to be a part of a guild (along the lines of the engineers have here in Canada) and that it is required that you be a member to work in the field.
Work standards could be established and if you don't follow then, you lose your cetification and you cannot work in this country anymore.
The problem with that is this will cause a certain pressure on innovation (god i hate that word) and it would slow down development in a lot of areas. Not something I would mind, but I'm not sure everyone would agree with me on that point.
But I am more than willing to look into the idea, 100%
TCB
I would love to be a part of a guild (along the lines of the engineers have here in Canada) and that it is required that you be a member to work in the field.
Work standards could be established and if you don't follow then, you lose your cetification and you cannot work in this country anymore.
The problem with that is this will cause a certain pressure on innovation (god i hate that word) and it would slow down development in a lot of areas. Not something I would mind, but I'm not sure everyone would agree with me on that point.
But I am more than willing to look into the idea, 100%
TCB
how so?
The idea that those working have a knowledge of the technologies underlying networking, or system admin should only help make them better at adapting to changes, not inhibit innovation.
Yup, each Country would have to have such an organisation for that Country.
silly thing is, the LUGS are a framework that can be incorporated into it to have an office in most major cities around the world, if not all of them.
The idea that those working have a knowledge of the technologies underlying networking, or system admin should only help make them better at adapting to changes, not inhibit innovation.
Yup, each Country would have to have such an organisation for that Country.
silly thing is, the LUGS are a framework that can be incorporated into it to have an office in most major cities around the world, if not all of them.
I was thinking out loud, it may not. It all depends on the reach of the guild itself. If you want to regulate how the work is done (like the engineer`s guild does here) then there would be a certain slowdown of innovation in that the guild would need to look at the emerging technologies and figure out the best way the order can apply it.
Most companies would not appreciate this since the guild would be a form of stumbling block to market. If you don't want to guild to control the how, then there is no problem. But then, what is the point of the guild itself.
I guess the idea would be that we would need to develop a charter for the guild and see the who, what, where, when and how we want to influence the work we do.
TCB.
Edited for typos.
Most companies would not appreciate this since the guild would be a form of stumbling block to market. If you don't want to guild to control the how, then there is no problem. But then, what is the point of the guild itself.
I guess the idea would be that we would need to develop a charter for the guild and see the who, what, where, when and how we want to influence the work we do.
TCB.
Edited for typos.
Let's see... take a chunk from my paycheck, use it to support political candidates I don't like, give the most primo jobs to the ones who payoff the union bosses, defend the idiots to the bitter end, ignore real grievances...
nope, no thank you.
nope, no thank you.
miss read the post then.
nowhere was there mention of being involved with employers.
only in issuing a certified member paper.
Think more along the lines of Accountants than longshorement / teamsters / auto workers [ the one I was in ] .. etc.
An organisation that has nothing to do with wages, or employment, only in saying yes you re a member in good standing, with this skill set.
nowhere was there mention of being involved with employers.
only in issuing a certified member paper.
Think more along the lines of Accountants than longshorement / teamsters / auto workers [ the one I was in ] .. etc.
An organisation that has nothing to do with wages, or employment, only in saying yes you re a member in good standing, with this skill set.
Damn corrupt organizations all of 'em.
My friends brother got in bad with the local guild hall and he can't get a union job anywhere in the area.
My wife's BF's husband moved to another state and the local won't let him join. HE's S*** out of luck
As for the teamsters, HA!!!
My buddy is a teamster and he's got more stories of corruption than you can shake a fist at.
Sorry, no deal for me.
I'd chew on broken glass before I'd ever join a union again.
My friends brother got in bad with the local guild hall and he can't get a union job anywhere in the area.
My wife's BF's husband moved to another state and the local won't let him join. HE's S*** out of luck
As for the teamsters, HA!!!
My buddy is a teamster and he's got more stories of corruption than you can shake a fist at.
Sorry, no deal for me.
I'd chew on broken glass before I'd ever join a union again.
I think, the idea would be to create a guild that is not a union. What you are decribing is Union behavior, and i agree, we don't need that.
It all depends on the charter. If we don't want to have political affiliations, we need to say so in the charter.
TCB
It all depends on the charter. If we don't want to have political affiliations, we need to say so in the charter.
TCB
1)An explicit statement of neutrality in politics and charities. (charities are often a political back-door)
2)an explicit prohibition against lobbying of any kind, even for it's own interests.
3)Some mechanism to prevent graft
2)an explicit prohibition against lobbying of any kind, even for it's own interests.
3)Some mechanism to prevent graft
I'm not familiar with the term "graft"
Also, I understand and agree on your first point, but I wonder about the why of your second. Can you elaborate?
TCB
Also, I understand and agree on your first point, but I wonder about the why of your second. Can you elaborate?
TCB
Graft is union/guild bosses holding back good jobs unless you give them a kickback.
As for #2 on my list....
Lobbying is another back-door for getting involved in politics. It very soon becomes pledging loyalty to a particular party for promised favors. It's a corrupting power.
As for #2 on my list....
Lobbying is another back-door for getting involved in politics. It very soon becomes pledging loyalty to a particular party for promised favors. It's a corrupting power.
For clarifying Graft. I totally agree with you.
As for the lobbying, I agree that it should not participate in that sort of activity, but it should be able to promote points of views to the politician if need be. Just not in the lobbying style. A very fine line for sure.
I am starting to think that Guild may not be an appropriate word for my view of what this whole thing should be. Maybe professional association would be better. Guild sounds too much like workers unions, and those, I agree, are to be avoided.
What do you guys thing of a professional association then?
TCB
Edited for typos, again
As for the lobbying, I agree that it should not participate in that sort of activity, but it should be able to promote points of views to the politician if need be. Just not in the lobbying style. A very fine line for sure.
I am starting to think that Guild may not be an appropriate word for my view of what this whole thing should be. Maybe professional association would be better. Guild sounds too much like workers unions, and those, I agree, are to be avoided.
What do you guys thing of a professional association then?
TCB
Edited for typos, again
an organisation that has zero to do with employers / contracts / wages / benefits.
it's sole purpose being to certify that it's members have the skills / knowledge required to work in IT, on any operating system.
it's sole purpose being to certify that it's members have the skills / knowledge required to work in IT, on any operating system.
The big question though is how to keep graft out and be as unpolitical as possible.
Were such an organistaion to take off, it would have enormous power, and that by it's nature would have to be used.
So lobbying politicians, endorsing products, education bursaries, community groups....
Danger Will Robinson danger.
As one plagiarist put it, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Were such an organistaion to take off, it would have enormous power, and that by it's nature would have to be used.
So lobbying politicians, endorsing products, education bursaries, community groups....
Danger Will Robinson danger.
As one plagiarist put it, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
a beast worse than the one they are created to fight.
set up to achieve particular things, they amass the power to achieve them.
Then you have a lot of people who enjoyed exercising power, have a lot of power and need to exercise it.
So they do, on whatever they feel like.
Key thing I learnt about unions. Union reps never get made forcibly redundant.....
Until the gravy train gets derailed, a lot of the time they get off just before with the swag.
First rule of all rules, never believe any c**t with his hand in your pocket, who says they are doing this for you.
Well yeah I was a bit lopsided there mate....
Then you have a lot of people who enjoyed exercising power, have a lot of power and need to exercise it.
So they do, on whatever they feel like.
Key thing I learnt about unions. Union reps never get made forcibly redundant.....
Until the gravy train gets derailed, a lot of the time they get off just before with the swag.
First rule of all rules, never believe any c**t with his hand in your pocket, who says they are doing this for you.
Well yeah I was a bit lopsided there mate....
I can just see the Number Five Orange full of pocket protectors and geeks selling hard drives out of the trunk in the parking lot. LOL!
I thought it was bad enough when Teamsters let Ikea workers join, now we are getting WAAAy out of hand.
Unless they came up with the Canadian Union for Network Technology, I can't see it taking off.
An IT union, for those late night workers who feel they are doing too much after hours work? Get real.
I thought it was bad enough when Teamsters let Ikea workers join, now we are getting WAAAy out of hand.
Unless they came up with the Canadian Union for Network Technology, I can't see it taking off.
An IT union, for those late night workers who feel they are doing too much after hours work? Get real.
During the great body hunt of 1984-5 I was working as a contract programmer for GM. EDS came in on 1/1/85 and stirred things up big time. When the GMISCA (GM IT group) employees found out that they were going to become EDS employees they almost rebelled. EDS's benefits weren't as good as GM. The UAW talked about organizing GM's IT staff and I was asked how I felt about it. At the time I was undecided. GM and EDS somehow managed to kill the idea before it got any traction.
Can you imagine GM's IT staff being unionized? What a scary thought.
Can you imagine GM's IT staff being unionized? What a scary thought.
- Keyboard Shortcuts:
- Prev
- Next
- Toggle
