http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23848570/
First off, I don't like Starbucks.. Give me a large cup of black maxwell house anyday. Sorry, think its over rated and does nothing for my coffee fix.
But, I have been forced to gag down a starbucks cup of coffee more then once. And when I have, I was unable to tell the difference between the shift supervisors and the baristas. What the hell is a baristas anyway. But, back to this... Everyone I seen behind the counter at a Starbucks did the same work... ????
Ok, maybe I'm wrong... But if someone serves you coffee... Be it shift supervisor or not... And you toss money in a chip jar? Isn't everyone intitled to that money who serves coffee behind that counter?
Dan
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Starbucks to fight tip-sharing court ruling
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There are Starbucks kiosks in some of my stores and the shift supervisors and managers work right alongside the baristas. Why shouldn't they share in any tips?
And I make sure to refill my coffee cup before I get to the store. I'd rather drink mid-watch coffee on day watch than drink Starbucks. Anybody got a cup of Folgers?
And I make sure to refill my coffee cup before I get to the store. I'd rather drink mid-watch coffee on day watch than drink Starbucks. Anybody got a cup of Folgers?
At work they have maxwell house. ewwww!
It is also the MILDest they can get.
They also make it weak.
Take something bad and make it worse!
I went out and got an electric perc pot and make my own in my office now. I use either folgers or 8oclock fresh ground, and make it strong. mmmmmmmmm.
It is also the MILDest they can get.
They also make it weak.
Take something bad and make it worse!
I went out and got an electric perc pot and make my own in my office now. I use either folgers or 8oclock fresh ground, and make it strong. mmmmmmmmm.
Eeewww! A percolator is the worst thing you can do to coffee.
Spend $60-$100 of your tax return and get a good drip brewer (about $40-$50) and an insulated carafe ($15-20 for plastic, $40-$60 for stainless). Four (more if desired) heaping scoops of 8 O'Clock, let it brew, then pour it into the carafe. Stays hot for hours without overcooking.
Dress it with real cream or half-n-half—none of that dry or non-dairy crap (non-fat if you must). No frig at work? Mini-moos! Natural sugar if desired. (I don't use sugar, but then I'm already sweet enough...or I'm beyond help. Depends on who you listen to.
)
Some things are just worth the time and money.
Spend $60-$100 of your tax return and get a good drip brewer (about $40-$50) and an insulated carafe ($15-20 for plastic, $40-$60 for stainless). Four (more if desired) heaping scoops of 8 O'Clock, let it brew, then pour it into the carafe. Stays hot for hours without overcooking.
Dress it with real cream or half-n-half—none of that dry or non-dairy crap (non-fat if you must). No frig at work? Mini-moos! Natural sugar if desired. (I don't use sugar, but then I'm already sweet enough...or I'm beyond help. Depends on who you listen to.
)Some things are just worth the time and money.
perc is the best way to make coffee.
most DRIP coffee makers do not get the water to the best temperature to extract the caffeine right, percolators do.
most DRIP coffee makers do not get the water to the best temperature to extract the caffeine right, percolators do.
It is just as easy and my coffee tastes much better, now.
I do put a paper filter in the basket though to help filter it better and make cleanup easier.
I do put a paper filter in the basket though to help filter it better and make cleanup easier.
is a vacuum unit: http://tinyurl.com/9fmu. Boils the water to get it up top. When it's done, into the thermos it goes.
boiling water is to hot for good coffee.
[ 212 F being boiling ]
anything over 190 F damages the flavour.
anything under 180 F doesn't draw the flavour or caffeine out.
percolators, by their design, are finished making the coffee by the time the liquid reaches 190 F, even though they "boil" the water to get it up the tube.
[ 212 F being boiling ]
anything over 190 F damages the flavour.
anything under 180 F doesn't draw the flavour or caffeine out.
percolators, by their design, are finished making the coffee by the time the liquid reaches 190 F, even though they "boil" the water to get it up the tube.
It doesn't actually "boil" the water, but uses steam pressure to force the water from the bottom to the top. The water temperature in the top chamber runs about 180-185F.
must not have been a good seller, huh?
I admit to not taking the time to see if a new model has replaced it or not.
I admit to not taking the time to see if a new model has replaced it or not.
The timer on mine died just after the warranty ran out. I understand I was one of the lucky ones, as most died within 60 days of purchase.
it doesn't NEED sugar/cream to cover the coffee flavor.
And yes, today is an 8 o'clock, columbian day.
I grind it fresh, but only get the small bags so it doesn't have a chance to dry out before I can finish it.
And yes, today is an 8 o'clock, columbian day.
I grind it fresh, but only get the small bags so it doesn't have a chance to dry out before I can finish it.
http://www.chemexcoffeemaker.com/
I still remember the first time I had a big cup of Kona brewed this way....
I still remember the first time I had a big cup of Kona brewed this way....
As usual, the lawyers go after the deep pockets. And as usual, the lawyers will reap the millions (because their lawyer/judge accomplices will allow it) - while those in the coffee shops might get a tip - if they're lucky. And, of course, if they fill out the required paperwork, the correct way, mail it in the correct envelope, and by the proper deadline - all of which is unclearly stated in the dozen page legal brief that no lay person could possibly comprehend - otherwise, they don't even get a tip.
here a "tip pool" is actually against the labour code.
yet most restaurants have one.
by claiming that it is "voluntary", they get around the laws.
as someone who benefited from the pool, I have to side with Starbucks, even though I absolutely refuse to patronize them, their coffee is the worst on the planet.
[ I have had people try to give me Starbucks coffee, and I refuse it. So they wasted the 3 or 4 bucks it cost in buying it for me. ]
yet most restaurants have one.
by claiming that it is "voluntary", they get around the laws.
as someone who benefited from the pool, I have to side with Starbucks, even though I absolutely refuse to patronize them, their coffee is the worst on the planet.
[ I have had people try to give me Starbucks coffee, and I refuse it. So they wasted the 3 or 4 bucks it cost in buying it for me. ]
I seem to be in the clear minority here in that I do enjoy a Starbucks orange mocha latte, if I can't get into the mom and pop coffee shop that usually next door to Starbucks, but as I refuse to pay $5 for a cup of coffee, I've figured out how to make them at home. I'm of the opinion that whoever makes the coffee should make the tips. Being the shift supervisor just means the manager walked off and had to leave somebody in charge... I don't think it comes with much of a pay raise, if any, and should not exclude them from receiving a share in any monies given as tips to those making the coffee.
WTG Starbucks... for once.
WTG Starbucks... for once.
I never go there and waste my money.
That doesn't mean that who ever SERVES the over priced cup of coffee should get the tip for the over priced cup of coffee.
What is the difference between a shift supervisor and a manager? who knows? If they are right in the middle of it all though, then they deserve their fair share.
The things some people will fight over.
That doesn't mean that who ever SERVES the over priced cup of coffee should get the tip for the over priced cup of coffee.
What is the difference between a shift supervisor and a manager? who knows? If they are right in the middle of it all though, then they deserve their fair share.
The things some people will fight over.
a store manager is a difference of significant money. A store manager makes at least 2X the yearly income of a shift leader. In my experience it was closer to 3.5X the money (not with Starbucks but another big chain).
As a shift leader, you are given a small raise (less then 8%) and expected to be legally responsible for money and retail product. Also, you are expected to deal with angry/irate customers, bad employees, and corporate office BS. All for (if your lucky as h3ll) $12 per hour.
But, this is not worth a legal battle at all. It's actual impact on the end receiver will be nothing. Lawyers will make their millions.
As a shift leader, you are given a small raise (less then 8%) and expected to be legally responsible for money and retail product. Also, you are expected to deal with angry/irate customers, bad employees, and corporate office BS. All for (if your lucky as h3ll) $12 per hour.
But, this is not worth a legal battle at all. It's actual impact on the end receiver will be nothing. Lawyers will make their millions.
I usually give the tip directly to the server. As far as I'm concerned the tip then belongs to that specific person. If they WANT to share then that's OK. If not why should they?
Don't really like Starbucks either but can drink it. But then again I used to re-perc my coffee for a week, just add another tablespoon or so and perk it again. Had to cut back so now it's McDonalds or something I like.
Don't really like Starbucks either but can drink it. But then again I used to re-perc my coffee for a week, just add another tablespoon or so and perk it again. Had to cut back so now it's McDonalds or something I like.
I can say that while I do agree that shift supervisors should receive a cut of the tips, I do not believe managers should. The pay differential between shift supervisor and barista is usually no more then $2 per hour. On an hourly basis, the difference between a shift leader and a store manager is closer to $14 per hour... The store manager is the only one making an actual living wage. Sure Starbucks offers benefits (and decent ones) to part time employees, but they then turn around and attempt to pay them less then they could earn per hour at McDonalds.
Give me a large cup of black maxwell house anyday.
Isn't that the stuff they sweep up from the floor at the Folgers factory?
Isn't everyone intitled to that money who serves coffee behind that counter?
Personally, I think the person who serves me should get all of the tip I give to them. Sharing tips is just another form of socialism.
Isn't that the stuff they sweep up from the floor at the Folgers factory?
Isn't everyone intitled to that money who serves coffee behind that counter?
Personally, I think the person who serves me should get all of the tip I give to them. Sharing tips is just another form of socialism.
But, after reading this article... I'm with the poster that gives the tip directly to the person.
I think that is what I will be doing from this point forward.
Dan
I think that is what I will be doing from this point forward.
Dan
Socialism is intended to take care of the stupid and lazy, as well as MAKE more people stupid and lazy.
The less you HAVE to work for something, the less you WILL work for something.
Drives me nuts when these assbags start talking that school sports should stop keeping score because it makes the losers feel bad. How hard would ANY team work if they can't win? Again, it is intended to make people feel better about themselves by lowering people around them down to the lowest level instead of MAKING them work to lift THEMSELVES up to the higher level.
Socialism kills the soul.
The less you HAVE to work for something, the less you WILL work for something.
Drives me nuts when these assbags start talking that school sports should stop keeping score because it makes the losers feel bad. How hard would ANY team work if they can't win? Again, it is intended to make people feel better about themselves by lowering people around them down to the lowest level instead of MAKING them work to lift THEMSELVES up to the higher level.
Socialism kills the soul.
Stupidity is killing our soul. There is nothing inherently socialistic in non-competitiveness. Socialism is a political system in ?which property and the distribution of wealth are subject to control by the community? (from WikiPedia). England is socialist, yet they seem relatively competitive in both rugby and soccer (football to them?). To be honest, it?s more likely to be capitalism run rampant that?s turning our country in to tards. People are being raised to be unthinking consumers, not producers. Producers are more akin to wolves, consumers more akin to sheep (broadly speaking).
It is when the same socialistic mentality is applied to any other aspects of life that we have things go down hill.
Clearly there isn't ANY socialistic values applied to the UK's sports. It is the ability to apply yourself and go as far as YOUR efforts will take you that is in play, and that is CLEARLY not a socialistic value.
What you are referring to is the creeping in of the socialistic VALUES that allows people to BECOME stupid and lazy and STILL live their lives. So much for survival of the fittest.
Recently Obama was talking about the "failed school system", but with the teachers union in place the government will NEVER do anything more than lip service, and the union is NOT going to ALLOW any "reforms".
Clearly there isn't ANY socialistic values applied to the UK's sports. It is the ability to apply yourself and go as far as YOUR efforts will take you that is in play, and that is CLEARLY not a socialistic value.
What you are referring to is the creeping in of the socialistic VALUES that allows people to BECOME stupid and lazy and STILL live their lives. So much for survival of the fittest.
Recently Obama was talking about the "failed school system", but with the teachers union in place the government will NEVER do anything more than lip service, and the union is NOT going to ALLOW any "reforms".
other then what allows the course of least resistance.
Learning and conditioning are not conscious processes from a behaviorism point of view. Its been proven to work. Look at the Marine Core, the Seals, mice in a cage, children at school, people driving on the road. We learn, merge, and fit in with minimal thought. We do as were told if we wish to avoid any unpleasant consequences.
Of the possible futures we have in America, Socialism is one of the more pleasant outcomes. We have a government that lies to us as much as the Germany populous under Nazi Germany, intentionally destroys the quality of our public educational system, and raising the cost of living and taxes without ensuring a living minimum wage. We are well on our way to Totalitarian Communism.
What you are referring to is the creeping in of the socialistic VALUES that allows people to BECOME stupid and lazy and STILL live their lives. So much for survival of the fittest.
Mostly right, though I'm not sure they are really socialist values per se.
Socialism is the communism of our Decade. No one fears communism anymore. We all know it was never communism, but totalitarianism. What people fear now is Governmental control. Ironic as these same people gave up most of our constitutional rights to a government that lied to us about WOMD, for personal vendetta.
Survival of the fittest...wow, you still believed in that dream? The destruction of that began with the discovery of controlled fire, and had the last nail pounded in its coffin during the industrial revolution. Technology has made that in mnay cases obsolete.
Recently Obama was talking about the "failed school system", but with the teachers union in place the government will NEVER do anything more than lip service, and the union is NOT going to ALLOW any "reforms".
Yup..great teachers were few and far between as I was coming up, and I do not see that changing. I know 3 or 4 people that "ended up" teachers by lazy @s$ default.. Reform will never happen as long as we as a country no longer value education. Unions are in some sense needed to keep teachers from getting completely railroaded....
Our children are educated by people earning not much more then a coffee shop employee, and our piece is protected by underpaid, under educated men with guns. Its really amazing its worked as well as it has for so long...
"That can not die, which for strange eaons sleeping can lie...Cthulu! Cthulu! Cthulu!"
Learning and conditioning are not conscious processes from a behaviorism point of view. Its been proven to work. Look at the Marine Core, the Seals, mice in a cage, children at school, people driving on the road. We learn, merge, and fit in with minimal thought. We do as were told if we wish to avoid any unpleasant consequences.
Of the possible futures we have in America, Socialism is one of the more pleasant outcomes. We have a government that lies to us as much as the Germany populous under Nazi Germany, intentionally destroys the quality of our public educational system, and raising the cost of living and taxes without ensuring a living minimum wage. We are well on our way to Totalitarian Communism.
What you are referring to is the creeping in of the socialistic VALUES that allows people to BECOME stupid and lazy and STILL live their lives. So much for survival of the fittest.
Mostly right, though I'm not sure they are really socialist values per se.
Socialism is the communism of our Decade. No one fears communism anymore. We all know it was never communism, but totalitarianism. What people fear now is Governmental control. Ironic as these same people gave up most of our constitutional rights to a government that lied to us about WOMD, for personal vendetta.
Survival of the fittest...wow, you still believed in that dream? The destruction of that began with the discovery of controlled fire, and had the last nail pounded in its coffin during the industrial revolution. Technology has made that in mnay cases obsolete.
Recently Obama was talking about the "failed school system", but with the teachers union in place the government will NEVER do anything more than lip service, and the union is NOT going to ALLOW any "reforms".
Yup..great teachers were few and far between as I was coming up, and I do not see that changing. I know 3 or 4 people that "ended up" teachers by lazy @s$ default.. Reform will never happen as long as we as a country no longer value education. Unions are in some sense needed to keep teachers from getting completely railroaded....
Our children are educated by people earning not much more then a coffee shop employee, and our piece is protected by underpaid, under educated men with guns. Its really amazing its worked as well as it has for so long...
"That can not die, which for strange eaons sleeping can lie...Cthulu! Cthulu! Cthulu!"
someone that can profit from a new idea or a big government that is taking care of everyone?
It is amazing that the same people complaining about "giving away our rights" with the patriot act and other Anti-Bush related issues, gleefully want to hand over everything to a bigger social government.
I don't see bigger government as the solution to eroding personal liberties, do you?
It is amazing that the same people complaining about "giving away our rights" with the patriot act and other Anti-Bush related issues, gleefully want to hand over everything to a bigger social government.
I don't see bigger government as the solution to eroding personal liberties, do you?
$h!t sticks. All of them. They are all one big click that is completely out of touch with normal, average America. They could care less about employment, health care, war on drugs, its all vote getting topics to make them money. Republican, Democrat..same social class, same schools, same job, different rhetoric.
The republican party WAS the party of Lincoln... huh, its almost like they court the racist vote. Democrats? They are even worse because they pretend to take minorities seriously, pretend to make social change.
As you can tell, I passed cynical a few years ago, went straight for bitter, and now am in grumpy acceptance of the fact our country is dying.
Personal liberties mean personal responsibility. Which means having to work, earn, and struggle. BUT, in a true democracy, those that care should, and would get to have a say in the running of the country. As we have seen several times now, our votes mean absolutely nothing. Our politicians are getting decidedly less accountable for their votes, and actions. For every mayor paying a prostitute, how much embezzling is going on you think? No, big government is the opposite of the values our founding fathers laid down...We were doomed when Statesmen ceased to be and Politicians took their place.
The republican party WAS the party of Lincoln... huh, its almost like they court the racist vote. Democrats? They are even worse because they pretend to take minorities seriously, pretend to make social change.
As you can tell, I passed cynical a few years ago, went straight for bitter, and now am in grumpy acceptance of the fact our country is dying.
Personal liberties mean personal responsibility. Which means having to work, earn, and struggle. BUT, in a true democracy, those that care should, and would get to have a say in the running of the country. As we have seen several times now, our votes mean absolutely nothing. Our politicians are getting decidedly less accountable for their votes, and actions. For every mayor paying a prostitute, how much embezzling is going on you think? No, big government is the opposite of the values our founding fathers laid down...We were doomed when Statesmen ceased to be and Politicians took their place.
we are all in for a rough ride.
All three will bankrupt the nation and sell out the work force.
All three will bankrupt the nation and sell out the work force.
But you're not. 
What's past flaming liberal? Nuclear liberal?
My ultra conservative friends are talking about an "October surprise". They won't tell me what it is, I don't think they know. Any ideas what they're talking about?
Edited -- typo
What's past flaming liberal? Nuclear liberal?
My ultra conservative friends are talking about an "October surprise". They won't tell me what it is, I don't think they know. Any ideas what they're talking about?
Edited -- typo
How about 37 states voting to secede? That would be a surprise
(Personally, I think we're closer to it than a lot of people realize)
(Personally, I think we're closer to it than a lot of people realize)
I think more accurately that those desiring to IMPLEMENT socialism simply use the stupid and lazy as a way to get their foot in the door because these are the only people socialism appeals to. So they encourage these people to be lazy and to raise lots of lazy kids too so that when it's time to take over, they'll promise to take care of their every need and thus capture the votes. But like with today's politicians, it's all lip service. What they really want is to control capital and work product.
Why work for it when you can con others into giving you control of it?
Why work for it when you can con others into giving you control of it?
Is it the measly few bucks any given clerk may have had to share, or is it the triple-digit-million dollar class-action lawsuit (emphasis on class-action, which means LAWYERS ONLY) who will benefit? The lawyers or the clerks? The clerks will get diddly-squat!!!!
Not one - not even one message (except mine) addressed the real issue. You all are getting sucked into the emotional argument, all overlooking the real argument.
Bottom line: Follow the money. Where does it lead? Clue: It ain't to the coffee-clerks.
Not one - not even one message (except mine) addressed the real issue. You all are getting sucked into the emotional argument, all overlooking the real argument.
Bottom line: Follow the money. Where does it lead? Clue: It ain't to the coffee-clerks.
tips?
Have you? Do you know what that measly few dollars means to some people? Have you ever bartended? Have you ever waited on tables?
If you haven't, then you have NOTHING to say.
I have. I know what tips mean. You can take home more in tips then you can in wages.All though, by your attitude. I can tell your a cheap prick that doesn't tip. But, think about this. Depending on where the coffee stand can be at may mean major money. Say an air port dweed. Captured audiance. Or your upscale neighborhood.
Now tell me who has a clue.
You missed the whole point now didn't you. You just blew right by it in your bash big buisness crusade. All lawers are bad crusade. Well guess what, in this case. I think the law suit is b.s. and that starbucks is right. Just because I have made my living off tips. You quite obviously haven't.
Must be nice to be so high and mighty that you have no idea how other working class people live from day to day.
The POINT here is that people that counted on that money are being subject by law not to get it. The shift supervisors. They earn it. Starbucks is backing them. Or would you RATHER that starbucks didn't? Is that what your saying? The money these people may have been counting on, that you have no frkn idea what that means, is not worth it?
screw you, I hope the next person that waits on you dumps your coffee in your lap.
Dan
Have you? Do you know what that measly few dollars means to some people? Have you ever bartended? Have you ever waited on tables?
If you haven't, then you have NOTHING to say.
I have. I know what tips mean. You can take home more in tips then you can in wages.All though, by your attitude. I can tell your a cheap prick that doesn't tip. But, think about this. Depending on where the coffee stand can be at may mean major money. Say an air port dweed. Captured audiance. Or your upscale neighborhood.
Now tell me who has a clue.
You missed the whole point now didn't you. You just blew right by it in your bash big buisness crusade. All lawers are bad crusade. Well guess what, in this case. I think the law suit is b.s. and that starbucks is right. Just because I have made my living off tips. You quite obviously haven't.
Must be nice to be so high and mighty that you have no idea how other working class people live from day to day.
The POINT here is that people that counted on that money are being subject by law not to get it. The shift supervisors. They earn it. Starbucks is backing them. Or would you RATHER that starbucks didn't? Is that what your saying? The money these people may have been counting on, that you have no frkn idea what that means, is not worth it?
screw you, I hope the next person that waits on you dumps your coffee in your lap.
Dan
All of them are wrong.
My point was (and is) that the people who are presumably to gain will not, in the long run, gain anything. This is just another frivolous class-action lawsuit filed by trial lawyers against big-pockets, benefiting only the lawyers - not those who earn the tips.
I can see, however, that I should have kept my opinion to myself. And if I knew I was going to be flamed and insulted for voicing that opinion, I would have done just that.
Sorry to intrude on your discussion. I won't make that mistake again.
My point was (and is) that the people who are presumably to gain will not, in the long run, gain anything. This is just another frivolous class-action lawsuit filed by trial lawyers against big-pockets, benefiting only the lawyers - not those who earn the tips.
I can see, however, that I should have kept my opinion to myself. And if I knew I was going to be flamed and insulted for voicing that opinion, I would have done just that.
Sorry to intrude on your discussion. I won't make that mistake again.
lose out on income if Starbucks didn't do as they are doing. The shift supervisors who do the same work
Glad to see you leave the conversation.;
dan
Glad to see you leave the conversation.;
dan
First is the lawsuit. Yeah, the coffee slinger won't see much of that (if they win), but it does mean a lot for FUTURE revenue.
When you talk down to people Joe, you can be assured to get responses like Dans. It is all about tone, and it is easy to be taken the wrong way without the body language to go with what you have to say.
Just a thought.
When you talk down to people Joe, you can be assured to get responses like Dans. It is all about tone, and it is easy to be taken the wrong way without the body language to go with what you have to say.
Just a thought.
I've been a member of a class in one of these suits. When the judgement was announced, the headlines read "Victims to receive up to $7500." My piece after the lawyers were paid and all eligibles had filed for payment? $82.60. In gift certificates!
Edit: In the long run, if this gets managers out of the tip jar, it's a good thing. Baristas, bartenders, waitresses, etc, are usually considered part timers and receive no benefits; managers are full-time with bennies.
Edit: In the long run, if this gets managers out of the tip jar, it's a good thing. Baristas, bartenders, waitresses, etc, are usually considered part timers and receive no benefits; managers are full-time with bennies.
He just forgot the main one in his response... People working that counted on that tip money. Lawers will reap windfalls, no issue. I don't like that either. It is a scam of a law suit, no argument.
If he would have taken the time to provide some input as to if these shift supervisors should be intitled to the tips, then I wouldn't have responded the way I did. But to say measly few dollars totally takes all personal consideration out of the equation about people that did count on that money.
Dan
If he would have taken the time to provide some input as to if these shift supervisors should be intitled to the tips, then I wouldn't have responded the way I did. But to say measly few dollars totally takes all personal consideration out of the equation about people that did count on that money.
Dan
He's right- the people who will get the money that
Starbuck's has been ordered to pay- and currently refuses
to pay until the appeal is settled- is the lawyers.
Shift leads work as hard as the barristas to get the
product out and keep customers happy. I've never had a
problem with tipping the communal jar because all of
them work their butts off- especially the morning rush.
I DO like Starbucks coffee and have had a coffee card for
many years. Same goes for Caribou. I've seen the shift
leads literally go from register to making drinks and back
to the register trying to get everyone through the line as
quickly as possible. Just because some org chart calls
them a "lead" or "supervisor" doesn't mean that they
shouldn't share tips.
All Joe is saying is that this is an issue that should have
been resolved internally. Had it been, everyone would
have come out of it better off. What will happen now is
that Starbuck's will have to do some re-orging in order to
deal with the issue. In the most likely scenario, that
means getting rid of the shift lead role, having a manager
on-site more hours and consequently, firing barristas as
the manager will be called on to do the things that the old
leads did in addition to their other jobs and working the
counter.
We have one of these cases here in MN. In talking to the
kids at my local, they are worried that it will go to court.
They know that if it does, some of them will be looking
for work.
This whole thing is a lose-lose.
And Joe does nothing wrong in the least by pointing that
out.
Starbuck's has been ordered to pay- and currently refuses
to pay until the appeal is settled- is the lawyers.
Shift leads work as hard as the barristas to get the
product out and keep customers happy. I've never had a
problem with tipping the communal jar because all of
them work their butts off- especially the morning rush.
I DO like Starbucks coffee and have had a coffee card for
many years. Same goes for Caribou. I've seen the shift
leads literally go from register to making drinks and back
to the register trying to get everyone through the line as
quickly as possible. Just because some org chart calls
them a "lead" or "supervisor" doesn't mean that they
shouldn't share tips.
All Joe is saying is that this is an issue that should have
been resolved internally. Had it been, everyone would
have come out of it better off. What will happen now is
that Starbuck's will have to do some re-orging in order to
deal with the issue. In the most likely scenario, that
means getting rid of the shift lead role, having a manager
on-site more hours and consequently, firing barristas as
the manager will be called on to do the things that the old
leads did in addition to their other jobs and working the
counter.
We have one of these cases here in MN. In talking to the
kids at my local, they are worried that it will go to court.
They know that if it does, some of them will be looking
for work.
This whole thing is a lose-lose.
And Joe does nothing wrong in the least by pointing that
out.
tone. The tone Joe came across as, and Dan got caught up in that.
But that is what happens when someone other than me comes in and tells everyone else they are wrong or they ALL missed the point. Everyone knows I am the only one that can get away with that sort of behavior!
But that is what happens when someone other than me comes in and tells everyone else they are wrong or they ALL missed the point. Everyone knows I am the only one that can get away with that sort of behavior!
But I can.
Dan can be a bit on the side of hair-trigger. I saw
nothing wrong with Joe's tone- he was absolutely right.
The thread DID go down the road of the emotional
response. He was simply trying to get people to see that
there is more than one thing happening here. Dan's
attack on him was not warranted- especially as Joe's point
was to say that one of two things will happen- Starbuck's
may simply disallow tipping altogether or will dissolve the
shift lead designation and put managers out front. That
will result in job loss. And for what? The people doing
the heavy lifting and depending on those tips as an
income stream aren't going to get the money.
Near as I can tell, Joe and Dan are on the same side.
And the only reason that you think that you can tell
people that they are wrong is because we humor you. But
that's okay too.
Dan can be a bit on the side of hair-trigger. I saw
nothing wrong with Joe's tone- he was absolutely right.
The thread DID go down the road of the emotional
response. He was simply trying to get people to see that
there is more than one thing happening here. Dan's
attack on him was not warranted- especially as Joe's point
was to say that one of two things will happen- Starbuck's
may simply disallow tipping altogether or will dissolve the
shift lead designation and put managers out front. That
will result in job loss. And for what? The people doing
the heavy lifting and depending on those tips as an
income stream aren't going to get the money.
Near as I can tell, Joe and Dan are on the same side.
And the only reason that you think that you can tell
people that they are wrong is because we humor you. But
that's okay too.
Sorry Tig, but I'm having one helluva hard time wrapping my brain around that one. It just ain't happening for me. 
Edit: Type. Oh!
Edit: Type. Oh!
Ok, after reading everyones response here... And also re-reading Joes.. I am hair trigger, and went off the deep end.
Again, my issue can be narrowed down to one comment of his. Measly few dollars.
But, ok... I do appoligize due to the fact I reconize I went overboard... I could have drawn out his response to be more explicit in a much better manner. And I reconize it.
So Joe, I do appoligize. I went overboard. I hope you have not left the thread and are still lurking to see this.
Dan
Again, my issue can be narrowed down to one comment of his. Measly few dollars.
But, ok... I do appoligize due to the fact I reconize I went overboard... I could have drawn out his response to be more explicit in a much better manner. And I reconize it.
So Joe, I do appoligize. I went overboard. I hope you have not left the thread and are still lurking to see this.
Dan
Good on you for taking a second look.
Good on you again for standing up and apologizing.
I had a feeling that all it would take was a second look. You
get very passionate about stuff like this and without a
second look after a nice cup of coffee, it is easy to
misconstrue.
Good on you again for standing up and apologizing.
I had a feeling that all it would take was a second look. You
get very passionate about stuff like this and without a
second look after a nice cup of coffee, it is easy to
misconstrue.
Starbucks is continually listed as one of the best American companies, currently listed as 7th on the Fortune Magazine list of the 100 best companies to work for (up from 16th last year). Upwards of 85 percent of its employees are part-time and/or participate in their job sharing program, and Starbucks still provides them with full benefits, including matching 401(k) payments to those who work at least 20 hours per week. Among hourly employees, the most common position at Starbucks pays about $35,000 per year. Job growth has been among the highest in corporate America, around 15 percent annually, which means that Starbucks provides thousands of new jobs each and every year.
The average tip, as calculated on an hourly basis, is about $1.70 per employee. There is little distinction between the shift supervisors and the shift workers; both positions, most likely, because of the tasks they perform, are equally entitled to a share of the tips. Depending on the store, there are anywhere from two to six baristas on duty at any given time. One of them is designated as a shift supervisor. Shift supervisors at Starbucks are not on the same level as store managers, whose salaries are about $10,000 per year higher.
The collective sharing of tips is not uncommon in such settings. I was part of a tip pool when I worked as a bartender years ago. In a team-setting, such as behind a bar, whether that bar serves beer or coffee, a tip sharing system seems to work the best.
It?s easy to suggest that Starbucks is actually a pretty good company to work for. This is especially true if one considers that most Starbucks store employees are entry-level people, students, transitional workers, and so on. It?s simply not the kind of place people go to build a career, but rather as a stepping-stone, or perhaps as a way to supplement a family income, such as a retiree or a mom who might want to work only when her kids are in school ? thus the job sharing program (and with very nice benefits to boot!).
When I suggested that people are getting sucked into the emotional aspect of the argument, it was to suggest that the more significant aspect was being totally overlooked ? which it was. I would call it the outrage aspect. Where's the outrage? Almost everyone who?s posted an opinion in this discussion agrees that, in spirit, the shift supervisors should also share in the tip pool. As such, and considering the fact that Starbucks is far from the proverbial evil empire, what is the more important aspect of this story? I suggest that it's the outrage aspect.
The lawyers stand to reap windfall fees that could reach the upper tens of millions of dollars. Depending on the number of people working each shift, if there had been one less person sharing in the tip pool, that $1.70 might have been $2.00 or $2.10 (based on a store with six). A thirty, forty, of fifty cent difference IS a measly amount, especially when compared to the percentage of the settlement that could be awarded to an extremely small number of lawyers.
You can take it however you?d like, but by comparison, the amount of potential gain to any single Starbucks employee could indeed be considered measly. What word would you use? (minimal, negligible, minuscule, small, .....) And I may have suggested that I made a mistake by venturing into the mine-field that?s the TR off-topic discussions, but only because some people might have a tendency to read into what?s written instead of simply reading it.
By the way, tort actions in America costs the U.S. Court system upwards of $250 billion per year, or about $845 per citizen, including those citizens who pay no taxes (which increases that amount when calculated on a per tax-paying citizen basis). As such, not only do class-action lawyers bilk and blackmail billions of dollars from Corporate America, which consumers eventually pay for, but we?re also paying for the system that allows them to do it. Where's the outrage?
The average tip, as calculated on an hourly basis, is about $1.70 per employee. There is little distinction between the shift supervisors and the shift workers; both positions, most likely, because of the tasks they perform, are equally entitled to a share of the tips. Depending on the store, there are anywhere from two to six baristas on duty at any given time. One of them is designated as a shift supervisor. Shift supervisors at Starbucks are not on the same level as store managers, whose salaries are about $10,000 per year higher.
The collective sharing of tips is not uncommon in such settings. I was part of a tip pool when I worked as a bartender years ago. In a team-setting, such as behind a bar, whether that bar serves beer or coffee, a tip sharing system seems to work the best.
It?s easy to suggest that Starbucks is actually a pretty good company to work for. This is especially true if one considers that most Starbucks store employees are entry-level people, students, transitional workers, and so on. It?s simply not the kind of place people go to build a career, but rather as a stepping-stone, or perhaps as a way to supplement a family income, such as a retiree or a mom who might want to work only when her kids are in school ? thus the job sharing program (and with very nice benefits to boot!).
When I suggested that people are getting sucked into the emotional aspect of the argument, it was to suggest that the more significant aspect was being totally overlooked ? which it was. I would call it the outrage aspect. Where's the outrage? Almost everyone who?s posted an opinion in this discussion agrees that, in spirit, the shift supervisors should also share in the tip pool. As such, and considering the fact that Starbucks is far from the proverbial evil empire, what is the more important aspect of this story? I suggest that it's the outrage aspect.
The lawyers stand to reap windfall fees that could reach the upper tens of millions of dollars. Depending on the number of people working each shift, if there had been one less person sharing in the tip pool, that $1.70 might have been $2.00 or $2.10 (based on a store with six). A thirty, forty, of fifty cent difference IS a measly amount, especially when compared to the percentage of the settlement that could be awarded to an extremely small number of lawyers.
You can take it however you?d like, but by comparison, the amount of potential gain to any single Starbucks employee could indeed be considered measly. What word would you use? (minimal, negligible, minuscule, small, .....) And I may have suggested that I made a mistake by venturing into the mine-field that?s the TR off-topic discussions, but only because some people might have a tendency to read into what?s written instead of simply reading it.
By the way, tort actions in America costs the U.S. Court system upwards of $250 billion per year, or about $845 per citizen, including those citizens who pay no taxes (which increases that amount when calculated on a per tax-paying citizen basis). As such, not only do class-action lawyers bilk and blackmail billions of dollars from Corporate America, which consumers eventually pay for, but we?re also paying for the system that allows them to do it. Where's the outrage?
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