Discussion on:

House raided by mob in Craigslist ad hoax

Are these people just plain idiots, or playing the fool, buoyed by the mob of other such "bargain-hunters". What preventive measures do you reckon could be taken to guard against such malicious hoaxes?

That is the question I want to ask - did they break in?

If so then what can you do?

Unfortunately, this is the world we live in. All it takes is one brave fool to either pick the lock or break it in. Subsequent visitors won?t question why the door is broken into; they?ll just ?go to town? on the guy?s stuff just like everyone else that is there.

The poor guy could do nothing but wait until cops showed up.

Sad thing is, had he pulled out a gun to defend his property, he'd probably be out everything, as he'd have been arrested and later crowds would have taken everything.

Actually, he could have done MUCH MORE than wait till the cops showed up. He could have gone into his house, called the Cops, and got out his shotgun, filled the shells with salt, and fired into the mob on his porch.

Then he could have told them: This is MY HOUSE. Get off my property, or I will shoot you dead. That would have at least given them PAUSE to think about what they were doing.

You CANNOT be arrested in the US on your OWN porch for PROTECTING your life and property.

At least, not legally.

And in some states, it is perfectly legal to shoot a man dead, who enters your property without YOUR specific permission, as long as the man you shoot in STILL ON YOUR PROPERTY when the police arrive. The State of Texas shines out as an example. Such a man MAY be arrested, but he will eventually be freed by the courts.

The "Right to self-defense" is NOT a Constitutional right: It is a NATURAL right, which NO GOVERNMENT can give or take away.

Our Government and our "Bill of Rights" do NOT "give us rights" of any kind. They simply RECOGNIZE pre-existing natural human rights.

you could be arrested for defending your life if you could escape.

This is a sad commentary on the state of morality in the US (and the rest of the world), which was brought about by LIBERAL TEACHERS and others who only "believe the best about humanity."

Humanism is the most dangerous concept since our parents were told in the Garden, "you shall not surely die".

In fact, Humanism is directly caused by that original lie to Eve, our mother. The idea was, if there is no death, there is also no judgment for wrong-doing. Eve knew that what the Devil told her was contrary to what her husband, Adam, had told her. But the thought of PHYSICAL pleasure overrode God's command, and she fell into Satan's trap. That is how strong our carnal desires are.

But Satan used a powerful means of getting her to believe the lie: he told her how GOOD it would be for her. He made a direct assault on her WEAKNEST part: her BODY, along with its desires.

As a result, even the Man decided to disobey the One Who placed them in the Garden. (The term "pu**y-whipped" comes to mind here, BTW.) Adam didn't want to lose the fleeting PLEASURE he received from her, rather than ignore his feelings and obey God.

So he too was deceived by Satan, through his wife's body, which came from his own rib. How EVIL Sin is, to use our OWN NATURAL urges against us.

The Father must have wept greatly over His creations in that day.

And how He must weep over us even today because of OUR disobedience.

God save us all from "well-meaning" folks like the Humanists.

Donald L McDaniel

Not in Texas. Castle Doctrine

do you actually read the Bible?



"Eve knew that what the Devil told her was contrary to what her husband, Adam, had told her."



Just exactly when did God lower Himself to become 'the first' Adam?



Genesis 3:3
"but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ?You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.?"



"But the thought of PHYSICAL pleasure overrode God's command, and she fell into Satan's trap."



Genesis 3:6
"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate."



Wisdom is a mental and spiritual function, not a bodily function. Pleasing to the eyes is a gift that God gave us. And we need to eat if we are to be healthy. He ate the fruit because Eve beguiled him in the same manner as the serpent beguiled her. He wanted the quick path to wisdom. He lacked strength of will - another mental and spiritual faculty. God specifically commanded Adam and Eve to have sex - "Be fruitful and multiply" - there is no indication that Adam ate that freaking fruit because he was pu**y-whipped. Pu**y-whipped is a function of impurity. Before man and woman ate that freaking fruit sexual desire was an entirely different thing - a pure thing. Genesis 1:31. What about the word all is difficult?



Revelation 22:18, 19
"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."



In spite of the fact that there doesn't appear to be a strong Christian presence here, there are well-read people who have no doubt read bits and pieces, if not all of the Good Book, have been raised in a Christian church, and are if not familiar with Christian doctrine nonetheless familiar with the creation story in Genesis.



Advertising your misunderstanding does nothing for the cause of Christ, but only ensures that you and Christianity are not taken seriously. Orthodoxy is definitely beyond you.



Stop listening to what some person is telling you about the Bible and start reading it for yourself. The elitist, sexist nonsense you spin is a far cry from anything that God has actually said in His Word.

That law may apply in Texas, but here in New Jersey & New York the criminal has all the rights, and the HomeOwner has none except to call the police which will involve you in an investigation which will get you no where and the cops may even find some thing you may have done wrong and arrest you. Here in the Northeast the Criminals have all the rights and the taxpaying honest citizen has none except to pay more taxes and then bend over and receive the Govt's thanks.

This makes me think about the old movie "Escape from New York", I know the one time I visited New York, I was appalled by the conditions. While there was a lot of beauty, there was also rampant violence, homosexuality, and a feeling of overall danger to the place. I'm glad to be in Texas, where not only am I allowed, but I am expected by my neighbors to raise my hand in defense of my family and home. I can not understand how we have fallen so far in some areas, while still staying true to the founding fathers in others. I pray that we can figure it out before it goes too far, but I fear it may have already done that.

"And in some states, it is perfectly legal to shoot a man dead, who enters your property without YOUR specific permission, as long as the man you shoot in STILL ON YOUR PROPERTY when the police arrive. The State of Texas shines out as an example. Such a man MAY be arrested, but he will eventually be freed by the courts."

Nobody should have the right to take the law into their own hands no matter where you are.

You do not have the right to execute someone just because they happen to be on your property.

Les.

So then they can go into your house and steal your belongings and you shouldn't be able to do anything about it?
I don't know about you but if someone is stealing my car I sure wouldn't be to happy about it and if I had a gun and they wouldn't back down I would sure as heck want to shoot them. Why should I let them get away with taking my car or other property? The cops sure as heck aren't going to bother getting it back, or even if they do it'll most likely be ruined.

Breaking and entering into a house is quite different, both legally and physically, from trespassing or car theft. If you feel your life is threatened by trespassing or car theft, you have more issues than even Freud could have dealt with.

"So then they can go into your house and steal your belongings and you shouldn't be able to do anything about it?"

You phone the authorities. That's what we pay taxes for. So that we have a justice system that protects us. If you don't like the way it works, vote for someone else or move!

If everyone felt empowered to dish out justice whenever they wanted, we'd be in a real sorry state.

You wanna go shoot people for stealing your stuff .. move to Iraq.

Les.

I'm at a loss as to how it is we are protected by something that can act only after the fact.

etu

I do every woken and unwoken moment I breathe. What do you do, Imunday?

What/whose definition of justice?

Ask anyone who is.

Huger still.
Thank you.

if there is a law that allows it, then in that area, CLEARLY, they do have that "right".

Don't confuse you not FEELING it is justified with reality.

if there is a law that allows it, then in that area, CLEARLY, they do have that "right".

Shouldn't it be "They have that right, unless there's a law prohibiting it"?

"dish out justice
I do every woken and unwoken moment I breathe. What do you do, Imunday?"

I pay my taxes.

Les.

Means you pay taxes whenever you want. No wonder we are in such a sorry state.

They clearly don't have the mental capacity to comprehend that laws are put in place to restrict us, not protect us.

When the laws ARE put in place to specifically allow us to protect ourselves, (such as this case) then it is evidence such simpletons can (hopefully) comprehend.

Anyone that think the police are there to protect us is in for a VERY rude awakening the day they need that protection. Police don't PREVENT crimes, they just draw the chalk outlines after the fact and hand out citations.

"When the laws ARE put in place to specifically allow us to protect ourselves, (such as this case) then it is evidence such simpletons can (hopefully) comprehend."

When the law states 'we can't protect you, even though you pay us to try, so here is a gun .. you go protect yourself', I find that a distressing situation to be living in. If I was you I'd move somewhere safer .. like Iraq.

Luckily I don't have that problem .. I trust the authorities to do what I pay them to do (and more, the bastards). I can sleep happily at night with the doors unlocked, not having to worry about what time the next trespasser is going to enter my property.

I feel so sorry for you,

Les.

They lay on the back, exposing the belly in abject submission, at the onset of attack.

I grew up in New York and I now live in Texas. They can both be dangerous places to live!

Texas is not quite as wild as that post would have you believe. The "castle doctrine" does apply - home owners are allowed to defend their family and property - but that doesn't mean that the police won't expect you to show cause.

People get very frustrated by a judicial system that so favors the rights of criminals that the rights of the law-abiding citizen are neglected.

This is well illustrated by an old joke:
A man hears someone rummaging through his shed in the back yard and calls the police... The operator says that there are no patrol cars in his area and it might take a few hours to get a patrol car out there. So the man hangs up the phone, waits a couple of minutes and calls back. "Hi, I called a couple of minutes ago to report a robbery in progress, well, you can take your time, I shot them." The operator replies that she will get a patrol car right out there! When the police show up moments later and ask where the robbers are, the man shows them to the shed where the robbers are still rummaging. "I thought you said you shot them!" said the police officer. I thought you had no patrol cars in the neighborhood, replied the man.

The town mentioned in Oregon is where people leave the doors unlocked.

He had a lot of stuff. Tracing to the perp could lead to civil as well as criminal penalties.

-John

While we all want to know, it is completely irrelevant to their crimes. The facts are, they got in (if they did) through ILLEGAL MEANS, whatever they were.

Ask a lawyer this question, friend. Only he can give you such advice. If we were to do it, we could be found guilty of practicing law without a license.

However, I CAN tell you what I would do in such a case: I would find the nearest board, and start swinging, KNOWING I was completely in the right, no matter WHAT the Law tried to say about it: especially if they refused to leave my property.

Of course, I am prepared to suffer the consequences, being 62 and almost dead. If I were jailed, I would only have a surer place to sleep, along with regular meals, till I died.

If you're still in your youth, I certainly wouldn't advise that course of action.

Donald L McDaniel

Complete bullspit, mate. Practicing law without a licence? Until I advertise my self as being a member of the bar, until I sell my advice again as someone who has passed his bar exam I am in NO way guilty of offering advice.

You can in fact have someone PAY you for advice without you having ANY legal accreditation at all, as long as you don't pretend to have passed the bar or be offering professional advice. It's the same law as impersonation, you can make a citizens arrest but you can't say your a cop and arrest someone.

More BS- "I would find the nearest board, and start swinging, KNOWING I was completely in the right, no matter WHAT the Law tried to say about it: especially if they refused to leave my property. "
No you are NOT within your right to attack someone for trespassing, unless you have notice of such that protects your land.

When you attack someone with a board, you are oding just that, ATTACKING someone and you have no possible recourse when they sue your arse. the problem is with the board...not removing people from your property. You can't use something else to harm the other person who is at your home on, in this case, good faith. It's like advertising a birthday party and takign a bat to all those who attend. Regardless of who placed the ad, the people turning up can be completely unsuspecting and are in no way breakign the law, UNTIL they steal property. When they steal your property it is theft, again you cannot beat someone with a board for stealign from you, unless of course they come at YOU with a board and you claim self defense.


Now i know that in some redkneck, yahhoo states, 'git awf ma layand!' means 'y'all will be shot if ya don't move yer britches good an' proper quick like' but even in such backward yankee states, there are still assault laws that protect unaware citizens from such an attack. Now with Oregon being a VERY left wing state, you can rest assured that beating them with a board will wind YOU up fined or in jail (at least for the night), not them.

Too many Americans think that if someone is on your property you can beat them down, fortunately, even your rather barbaric country, isn't quite as simple as that anymroe, though you can get away with a lot more than in most sane countries anyway (like saying you were hunting on your porch and someone got in the way).

Bang!!!

Oops, twas another loser on my porch. Sorry dude, I was a huntin

Really occifer I was shootin' a some foud. and hit a guy stealin my stuff really I did! Get the F out of my pond or yer next pig!!!!!

sorry that was a good post had to

-duck

If I was watching my whole lifes work, savings being trucked off by people. I don't know, violence would definatly come to mind.

Yes I would go to jail, and for the very reasons you state. But both desperation and anger definatly would be taking over about the time I see my house being carted away from no fault of my own. Ie: debt colectors, forclosure, sale....

Those people had no idea, but they would be taking away everything I worked my whole life for.

Dan

that my shotgun wasnt touched yet

Cause I think it may be a shooting gallery till they gave my stuff back.

If my shotgun was taken, I think I would likely be in a mood to kill from other means. At the very least, all license plates would be recorded. Heck, I'd probably be killin while on the phone with 911!

Was he insured... Could this be considered a robbery.

Dan

But insurance companies don't like to pay out. Even when robbed blind in the middle of the night, you'll have probs claiming. Good luck with something like this. I would expect and endless stream of red tape and legal prceedings before getting a new couch.

But you have to admit, the post I was responding to was simply clueless.

I'm usualy the one that is accused of that.

;o)

Dan

I can stand up and take it as well as I dish it out. Note that I didn't say I sit down and listen to it, I prefer to face it head on.

Been called every name, been tagged as supporting every form of government (as long as it was in a negtaive fashion).

Well put.

If you don't agree with our ways, why don't you go cry to you momma...the Queen...of Canada???no, of England. Since that's who you still claim to be sovereign. I'm from Texas, but it doesn't matter where you are from, I believe that you have a right to defend you property, you tell the people to drop it, they don't, start swinging. I wouldn't use a board, but that's because i would use my fists and leave them unconscious on my lawn for the cops. And if I'm not allowed to hit them (in a lot of left-wing states) then out comes the knife and flat go the tires. No one is leaving my property with anything that they did not bring with them unless I have freely given it or sold it to them. Period.

here here! I don't understand where people get the idea that a person can come on my property and do what they want there. How is it right when a criminal goes free and well meaning citizens go to jail? That is the day when criminals start laughing at us for our stupidity in arresting the wrong person.

Of course, by your lights, I'm a barbarian anyway.

If your property is posted, you have the right to use reasonable force to apprehend someone trespassing in order to hold them until law enforcement personnel arrive to take possession of them. Reasonable force ranges from verbally telling them to stay put, threatening them with a board, to striking them down in a non-critical injury. Use of deadly force is only permissible when you, your family, or your guests are threatened. By the way, a mob of people constitutes a viable threat to life and limb, even if they aren't armed. So the use of a board, knife, sword, or gun to issue a threat or actually attack them after they disregard your warning is reasonable use of force. The warning, or demand that they leave your property is all the notice required.

The people in this man's home were NOT there in good faith. They were there based on a deception. As soon as the man arrived and demanded they leave, and return all of his possessions, he had the right to use any force necessary to enforce his demands.

The key is whether the landowner informs the trespassers, or now unwanted guests, that it's time to leave.

I'm speaking, of course, from personal experience. I was assaulted by a trespasser that I confronted and told to leave; and got the **** beat out of me for my efforts. The next time that ever happens, the cops will be picking up his cold, dead corpse from my porch.

As soon as the man arrived and demanded they leave,

Mob: "How do we know you're the owner... because you SAY SO? Maybe you're just claiming that so we'll leave and you can take everything for yourself."

I agree with you though... warn once, then shoot to kill... maybe the survivors will think twice before they act on the next such ad

If the post was "What would you do if you went to a Craigs list giveaway and found someone swinging a board at the attendees?" would orthocross suggest pulling out his gun to defend the people there from a beating?

(see also post 1.1.1.1.1.)

Perhaps instead of picking up a board and brutalizing the unsavory, why not use the opportunity of such a captive audience to proclaim the greatness of the Word of God and attempt to enlighten the darkened hearts of the sinners taking your stuff. In fact you could go so far as to say to them, "Verily I say unto you these are my possesions yet you may take them for I am so full of the spirit that I care not for such worldly possesions for I know that God will provide for me." This is if you truly believe in what you are preaching to others.

Sorry, that sounds more like a potlatch, yet it sounds more Christian than what you are spewing forth. (For definition of potlatch seek out an elder of one of the indigenous peoples in your area)

I doubt Christ would whop someone up side the head with a 2x4 regardless of how much they needed it.

What would Kurt Vonnegut Jr. Do?

nt

Christ sure as hell "lit into" the money changers in the Temple so stick that in your "Potlatch" and smoke it.