You know, I really just want to puke.
After reading the following two articles, I have come to the conclusion that the granola eating, hairy armpit, tree hugging crowd along with the professors, '60's flower power, and theoretical BS crowd just don't get it.
http://biz.yahoo.com/nytimes/080620/1194786578804.html?.v=19
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080619/sc_nm/fuel_efficiency_dc
I would agree as I think most would that we have to end our dependence on oil. For security reasons, for environmental reasons, for lots of reasons.
But what these people just don't get is that the rapid and largely unexplained raise in oil (gas, heating, electric...this is just the beginning) is killing the lower income crowd.
You know, as a hardcore independent, conservative (I'd be a Republican but they too like the Democrats have screwed everything up) I'd like to say "oh well, that's the free market".
But this is different. Poor people's lives are being screwed with. Imagine for a second (hopefully most of you are like me and aren't lower income, after all we are supposedly in a higher paying field). But imagine for a second that the one thing you can't do without (oil) is breaking the bank.
Imagine living in a city without a meaningful mass transit system. Imagine living in a city where your current home value has depreciated to the point where you can't move.
Imagine paying 20% of your income just to drive to work and keep the power on. Then, insult to injury...cereal, bread, milk...they all go up.
Imagine telling your son or daughter that there won't be any presents under the tree this year because all your present money went to some Saudi king.
What's next? Where's the next hurricane?
Imagine being a single parent with two kids making $30,000 a year. Imagine for a second.
What the hell have our "leaders" been doing for the last 30 years? It's time to kick them all out of office.
Where's the solar power? Nuclear? Where the hell is all the sources of power we need without paying the towel heads (sorry) all the money we give them so they can finance the guns, bombs and other crap to turn around and kill us?
I've had it. My ballot in November will be all write in's. No voting for the freaking Democrats or Republicans.
How did we get to this point? I'll tell you. We got here because all of our "leaders" are too busy being greedy, self serving and worthless. To them, it's not about what can I do for my country, it's about how many times they get get their ugly face on TV and how many special interest dollars they can get.
They need to stop talking and start getting something done.
I work my ass off for a living. I manage my house pretty darn well. All I ask is for our "leaders" to do the same.
P.S. Many books have been written about the next world war. It's not going to be about politics, nationality, race, whatever.
It'll be about resources. Prepare yourself.
Discussion on:
Gas Prices
View:
Show:
Dependence in any non domestic fuel is bad
So what do we do?
You could walk, but that is to far for most
The main problem is mobile energy sources
In every car we have a power plant
One of the easy solutions would be to cut down the number of power plants or install a smaller version
We could look at joining the cars into a train but how and who pays is a problem
Anyway some driving tips
Slowly accelerate
Brake as little as possible
Do not fill the car up any more than you have too (why carry around the weight of extra fuel)
Wear more or less clothes depending on the temperature
(AC costs, heating costs)
Try to keep the weight of your car to a minimum
Check the cars aerodynamics (cut down on air friction)
Silly stuff like shiny paint can help
Most of that is obvious anyway
Wonder how much I lose carrying around hubcaps
I will keep the spare tyre
Good to know your MPs are no worse than ours
I don?t have to imagine living in a city without a meaningful mass transit system
Solar power needs to be researched it will get there
Wind is too unpredictable
But sails may help especially with getting away from the hurricane
I don?t have any kids to worry about thank god
Now Neil don?t take that the wrong way it is just a saying
$30,000 a year is that all IT pays over there?
Damn
May have to move
Want to hear something funny
We will be having elections here this year
It makes no difference who gets into power
They will be spending the time covering their Asses
Fuel is up
Power is up and the supply will fail at some time this year
Interest rates are up
Food is up
Unemployment is up
Wages are down (yay opps no boo)
Not the best time for any government
Gen Y will be a big help too
How I don?t know
But they are young let them walk
Rick the war is not that far away
Supply or resources much the same thing
But it is hard to fight a war without them
So what do we do?
You could walk, but that is to far for most
The main problem is mobile energy sources
In every car we have a power plant
One of the easy solutions would be to cut down the number of power plants or install a smaller version
We could look at joining the cars into a train but how and who pays is a problem
Anyway some driving tips
Slowly accelerate
Brake as little as possible
Do not fill the car up any more than you have too (why carry around the weight of extra fuel)
Wear more or less clothes depending on the temperature
(AC costs, heating costs)
Try to keep the weight of your car to a minimum
Check the cars aerodynamics (cut down on air friction)
Silly stuff like shiny paint can help
Most of that is obvious anyway
Wonder how much I lose carrying around hubcaps
I will keep the spare tyre
Good to know your MPs are no worse than ours
I don?t have to imagine living in a city without a meaningful mass transit system
Solar power needs to be researched it will get there
Wind is too unpredictable
But sails may help especially with getting away from the hurricane
I don?t have any kids to worry about thank god
Now Neil don?t take that the wrong way it is just a saying
$30,000 a year is that all IT pays over there?
Damn
May have to move
Want to hear something funny
We will be having elections here this year
It makes no difference who gets into power
They will be spending the time covering their Asses
Fuel is up
Power is up and the supply will fail at some time this year
Interest rates are up
Food is up
Unemployment is up
Wages are down (yay opps no boo)
Not the best time for any government
Gen Y will be a big help too
How I don?t know
But they are young let them walk
Rick the war is not that far away
Supply or resources much the same thing
But it is hard to fight a war without them
from our nice people at the Ministry. What they would REALLY like is for us all to walk everywhere.
Keep the tyres - that's tires to you guys - pumped up to pressure.
Open the window and turn off the aircon in town or below 40mph. On the motorway - freeway - windows up and on with the aircon.
Keep the air filter clean.
Make sure that the engine - lube - oil is clean.
if your cars a manual gearbox - stick-shift - watch the revs and change up before 2,500rpm.
Avoid short journeys as the catalytic converter won't warm up.
Thank God I live near a main-line train station.
Keep the tyres - that's tires to you guys - pumped up to pressure.
Open the window and turn off the aircon in town or below 40mph. On the motorway - freeway - windows up and on with the aircon.
Keep the air filter clean.
Make sure that the engine - lube - oil is clean.
if your cars a manual gearbox - stick-shift - watch the revs and change up before 2,500rpm.
Avoid short journeys as the catalytic converter won't warm up.
Thank God I live near a main-line train station.
I am sure you are a godsend to some people
Cheers Steve
PS I will pray for you
Now where is my wallet
Cheers Steve
PS I will pray for you
Now where is my wallet
Your suggestions are helpful, but not enough.
What we need is a more comprehensive solution. One that includes more drilling, more nuculear, more solar, more biofuels, more of everything.
The probem is that the solution does require a little of everything but there is always some group that will kill each part of the solution.
What we need is a more comprehensive solution. One that includes more drilling, more nuculear, more solar, more biofuels, more of everything.
The probem is that the solution does require a little of everything but there is always some group that will kill each part of the solution.
I wasn't referring to my salary (I make alot more than that).
But imagine being a single parent, having a kid or two, and maybe working as some minial office worker making $30,000.
Think about this for a second. Over here, the Democrats are typically the party of the "poor".
Yet the Democrats solution so far seems to be "grin and bare it" or "suck it up".
Sort of iroinic.
I really don't think rich people get it.
Let's do some math. Say you drive 12,000 miles a year (probably average). Say your car gets 25 miles per gallon (probably average). That means you'll use 480 gallons of gas a year. If gas has gone up $2 a gallon recently, that's an additional $960 a year out of your pocket.
Multiple that by two if you're married.
Ouch!
Now, $960 to me is an inconvenience. $960 to some people breaks the bank.
And that's $960 a year only for gas in the car. Add on increased food costs, increased heating and cooling for the home, and increased inflation.
The real income of most people in society today is shrinking. Bottom line, you make less every year. End of story.
But imagine being a single parent, having a kid or two, and maybe working as some minial office worker making $30,000.
Think about this for a second. Over here, the Democrats are typically the party of the "poor".
Yet the Democrats solution so far seems to be "grin and bare it" or "suck it up".
Sort of iroinic.
I really don't think rich people get it.
Let's do some math. Say you drive 12,000 miles a year (probably average). Say your car gets 25 miles per gallon (probably average). That means you'll use 480 gallons of gas a year. If gas has gone up $2 a gallon recently, that's an additional $960 a year out of your pocket.
Multiple that by two if you're married.
Ouch!
Now, $960 to me is an inconvenience. $960 to some people breaks the bank.
And that's $960 a year only for gas in the car. Add on increased food costs, increased heating and cooling for the home, and increased inflation.
The real income of most people in society today is shrinking. Bottom line, you make less every year. End of story.
I thought it was a bit low
Since I am not a US citizen
I would not try to influence your vote
Unlike some of the TR members who live on the northern side of one of your borders
AS a rule I see politics as a waste of time
In NZ we have two main political parties
Labour and National
Labour has its origins in the labour movement
National the older is more towards the business side
Both are trying to occupy the middle ground
So we have very little choice
The minor parties hold the balance of power
The last two governments have been coalitions
But thanks for the info
Yes I think it is real stupid to be dependant on 1 source of fuel
There should have been real competition to oil 20 years ago
What we are seeing now is the result of low oil prices for too long
Every part of our societies will have to adjust
But it is always the people on low incomes who foot the bill
Since I am not a US citizen
I would not try to influence your vote
Unlike some of the TR members who live on the northern side of one of your borders
AS a rule I see politics as a waste of time
In NZ we have two main political parties
Labour and National
Labour has its origins in the labour movement
National the older is more towards the business side
Both are trying to occupy the middle ground
So we have very little choice
The minor parties hold the balance of power
The last two governments have been coalitions
But thanks for the info
Yes I think it is real stupid to be dependant on 1 source of fuel
There should have been real competition to oil 20 years ago
What we are seeing now is the result of low oil prices for too long
Every part of our societies will have to adjust
But it is always the people on low incomes who foot the bill
Rick,
Your points a very good however, not sure where you are but I have friends and family that don't make $15000.00 a year and some with from 2-6 kids. These are families that both parents work. And they make to much money for assistance. I can tell you they do go without alot.
I am just barely over your 30000.00 mark and I am an IT Manager. Here in the midwest where I'm at, what I make is considered good. To bad they don't consider the fact that with fuel, food, utilities, medical, etc what I make frankly sucks.
This is a crisis and a shame in one of the Best countries in the world.
Oh, some of the suggestions on saving fuel are lame if you look at the actual savings they would create. And they don't help with everything else that has inflated.
Best solution would be to release the fuel cell technology. Of course that has the potential of actually putting the oil companies out of business. I have been following the fuel cell technology since it's early days and although the real promising ones were bought by Utility Companies and Oil companies and now most of the exceptional systems patents are locked under their control.
I wish I had the know how to create a system. Unfortunately, chemistry or the means to build are not within my expertise or ability.
I know maybe some of you could do it?? From what I read here I know some of you could.
Your points a very good however, not sure where you are but I have friends and family that don't make $15000.00 a year and some with from 2-6 kids. These are families that both parents work. And they make to much money for assistance. I can tell you they do go without alot.
I am just barely over your 30000.00 mark and I am an IT Manager. Here in the midwest where I'm at, what I make is considered good. To bad they don't consider the fact that with fuel, food, utilities, medical, etc what I make frankly sucks.
This is a crisis and a shame in one of the Best countries in the world.
Oh, some of the suggestions on saving fuel are lame if you look at the actual savings they would create. And they don't help with everything else that has inflated.
Best solution would be to release the fuel cell technology. Of course that has the potential of actually putting the oil companies out of business. I have been following the fuel cell technology since it's early days and although the real promising ones were bought by Utility Companies and Oil companies and now most of the exceptional systems patents are locked under their control.
I wish I had the know how to create a system. Unfortunately, chemistry or the means to build are not within my expertise or ability.
I know maybe some of you could do it?? From what I read here I know some of you could.
to the oil companies by the vehicle manufacturers
Guess we know where they sit on the subject
Guess we know where they sit on the subject
It's been over thirty 30 years since I've been in the Quad City area, (I went to college, one of them, in Oskaloosa) and I see some things haven't changed. It was the same then, only at that time there was hope. Sad. Iowa has always impressed me as having a population with a higher level of inteiegence than the rest of the US. How did they get left off the gravy train? Or were they smart enough to stay off the credit train?
BTW there are some smart people working on the problems. But, that's science and you won't hear about in the media. They're too busy with their noses up the polico's butt, or panty watching in Holywood. These are sad times indeed. -d
BTW there are some smart people working on the problems. But, that's science and you won't hear about in the media. They're too busy with their noses up the polico's butt, or panty watching in Holywood. These are sad times indeed. -d
I marked 2 of your posts as spam. One where you addressed Techrat directly in your insult.
Get with the program Oz... Your comprehensive reading skills suck. Your retention of the materal read is even worse.
Mutiple examples of both throughout this conversation.
And oz. Your offensive.. I respond and mark as spam only what offends me.
Your a bigot. That offends me greatly. Always has. I could care less if your a stupid moron that can't remember what people say and rant about completely off topic subjects.
And oz, as an example of retention capabilities being in the crapper. I did mention that I had bad eye site now didn't I. You do remember that don't you.
You can follow this logic now can't you. I have problems trying to see within the small space of this posting window. Gee oz, eyesite. Seeing within a small confined space. They are completely related now arn't they.
Ever wonder you bigot if that may a part of the reason not all sentences are laid out in order. That I can not scroll back easily and review?
So, whats your problem with your typing. I have noted your retention abailities over any period of time on what people say. That is why you miss quote others. That may explain why you can't type worth crap.
Oz... Your an aragont prick that could care less about anyone or anything. You crizisze and offer nothing. You shove your nose in other people's buisness. When they point out the faults of your position. You resort back to the only thing your good at. Being a bigot.
And bigottry is the only thing you have been consistant with in this thread and many other thread. If all else fails when your arguing, you insult a complete nation of people.
People like you with attitudes such as yours should be shot. That is the type of attitude that gives us war in the middle east. That is the type of attitude that gives us riots... Your attitude Oz. Your the sick pup, not I.
Id love to see you have the balls to state your very same positions in public where others can see how much of a bigot you really are. Wonder how long it would take before you were removed from the place on a streatcher.
And no, that was not a threat. So don't miss quote me. Just an observation that I think your also a coward.
Dan
Get with the program Oz... Your comprehensive reading skills suck. Your retention of the materal read is even worse.
Mutiple examples of both throughout this conversation.
And oz. Your offensive.. I respond and mark as spam only what offends me.
Your a bigot. That offends me greatly. Always has. I could care less if your a stupid moron that can't remember what people say and rant about completely off topic subjects.
And oz, as an example of retention capabilities being in the crapper. I did mention that I had bad eye site now didn't I. You do remember that don't you.
You can follow this logic now can't you. I have problems trying to see within the small space of this posting window. Gee oz, eyesite. Seeing within a small confined space. They are completely related now arn't they.
Ever wonder you bigot if that may a part of the reason not all sentences are laid out in order. That I can not scroll back easily and review?
So, whats your problem with your typing. I have noted your retention abailities over any period of time on what people say. That is why you miss quote others. That may explain why you can't type worth crap.
Oz... Your an aragont prick that could care less about anyone or anything. You crizisze and offer nothing. You shove your nose in other people's buisness. When they point out the faults of your position. You resort back to the only thing your good at. Being a bigot.
And bigottry is the only thing you have been consistant with in this thread and many other thread. If all else fails when your arguing, you insult a complete nation of people.
People like you with attitudes such as yours should be shot. That is the type of attitude that gives us war in the middle east. That is the type of attitude that gives us riots... Your attitude Oz. Your the sick pup, not I.
Id love to see you have the balls to state your very same positions in public where others can see how much of a bigot you really are. Wonder how long it would take before you were removed from the place on a streatcher.
And no, that was not a threat. So don't miss quote me. Just an observation that I think your also a coward.
Dan
Oh no everyone, it's policeman Dan to the rescue. I don't know what these poor people without a voice would do without you. Just continue to send Tammy work, I am sure she thanks you for wasting her time.
I could go back and tag ALL of your posts as spam as you break rules in each and every one of them, but I don't want to inundate TR staff with work, they already know you are a loser and others don't bother with your BS anyway. Give me your worst, you are just wasting people's time and pi$$ing people off now, well done. I've seen this before, believe me crying wolf is not going to get you anywhere but eventually ignored for "Mrs. Posting", oops sorry, thats MISS posting to you.
Oh my god, you're an an easy one. I've seen far better here than you, you aren't even somewhat good at this.
But you just do what you feel is right for America and leave me out of it. Free the poor, helpless, voiceless people here from my wrath.
You being a moderator is as hypocritical and ridiculous as Firemarshall Bill giving fire safety tips.
good luck with that.
"Offither Daniel! To the rethcue! Ith there a problem here, thir?" Yuk yuk yuk.
I could go back and tag ALL of your posts as spam as you break rules in each and every one of them, but I don't want to inundate TR staff with work, they already know you are a loser and others don't bother with your BS anyway. Give me your worst, you are just wasting people's time and pi$$ing people off now, well done. I've seen this before, believe me crying wolf is not going to get you anywhere but eventually ignored for "Mrs. Posting", oops sorry, thats MISS posting to you.
Oh my god, you're an an easy one. I've seen far better here than you, you aren't even somewhat good at this.
But you just do what you feel is right for America and leave me out of it. Free the poor, helpless, voiceless people here from my wrath.
You being a moderator is as hypocritical and ridiculous as Firemarshall Bill giving fire safety tips.
good luck with that."Offither Daniel! To the rethcue! Ith there a problem here, thir?" Yuk yuk yuk.
There is no reason to keep poking someone
It is obvious you are doing it for your own sadistic pleasure
Time to stop the BS
Time to grow up
What you are doing lowers the opinion others have of you
Stop acting like a child
I know you can do better than that
Really some people
This is a public forum
There are other people reading this
The real subject is important
It is obvious you are doing it for your own sadistic pleasure
Time to stop the BS
Time to grow up
What you are doing lowers the opinion others have of you
Stop acting like a child
I know you can do better than that
Really some people
This is a public forum
There are other people reading this
The real subject is important
Not TR.
If DanLM decides to follow me throughout every forum and comment on every post I make, whether with or against someone's comments, while telling me to fk off, calling me a bigot etc., he can take it right back on the nose.
I agree, nobody needs to read it and I also think he has gone way over the line, I oppose and agree to people's comments, that's what a discussion is all about, not simply being a yes man that agrees with everyone as he would expect one to be.
There are enough people here that know me, some like my comments and some don't. Those that don't just leave them alone and move on to what interests them. As for DanLM, he's tried speakling out for you and others as if it is his job, well actually he alrady said he would be the site moderator whether people like it or not.
Fine, want to be a moderator, I suppose I would be your best target.
I am not abotu to let someone re;eated;ly tell me to foff without any recprocal comment though, i am not one to walk away from taht crap.
I am honestly quite sorry that you had to get dragged into it, simply find other links to click I suppose and I'll let DanLM hang himself as he seems to do so well at it, I know where this goes.
If DanLM decides to follow me throughout every forum and comment on every post I make, whether with or against someone's comments, while telling me to fk off, calling me a bigot etc., he can take it right back on the nose.
I agree, nobody needs to read it and I also think he has gone way over the line, I oppose and agree to people's comments, that's what a discussion is all about, not simply being a yes man that agrees with everyone as he would expect one to be.
There are enough people here that know me, some like my comments and some don't. Those that don't just leave them alone and move on to what interests them. As for DanLM, he's tried speakling out for you and others as if it is his job, well actually he alrady said he would be the site moderator whether people like it or not.
Fine, want to be a moderator, I suppose I would be your best target.
I am not abotu to let someone re;eated;ly tell me to foff without any recprocal comment though, i am not one to walk away from taht crap.
I am honestly quite sorry that you had to get dragged into it, simply find other links to click I suppose and I'll let DanLM hang himself as he seems to do so well at it, I know where this goes.
A reason for people the go off the hook
I find there is always something that has been done by both sides that sets the other off
Even if they don?t remember what it was
I have no intention of being moderator
So don?t start with the policeman crap with me
There are other people reading these posts
There is no need for them to sift through the garbage just to find something worthwhile
Yes I can be a rat if you like and I am not talking about rodents
I suppose I will get some smart ass or arrogant reply it would be typical
I find there is always something that has been done by both sides that sets the other off
Even if they don?t remember what it was
I have no intention of being moderator
So don?t start with the policeman crap with me
There are other people reading these posts
There is no need for them to sift through the garbage just to find something worthwhile
Yes I can be a rat if you like and I am not talking about rodents
I suppose I will get some smart ass or arrogant reply it would be typical
He is not going to listen to you
I have to wonder if he respects anyone enough to listen to what they have to say
Chill out it?s not worth getting upset over something you read in a forum
Your taking it way to seriously
I have to wonder if he respects anyone enough to listen to what they have to say
Chill out it?s not worth getting upset over something you read in a forum
Your taking it way to seriously
I respect a lot of people here, and I agree to disagree with them. Even in ties where I opose their comments, a efw posts later we generally find middle ground.
Maxwell Edison and I would go at it for hours and hours, thousands of posts. But I have a whole new respect for him since running into people like Dan. Max was at least very clever and kept challenging me with his replies, now when we get pissy with each other, we'll offer a few jokes about it and both walk away. Dan has chosen not to do that though, he has folloed my posts in other discussions and offered more of the same. I have no patience for losers like that at all and he can expect to get smacked for it.
Maxwell Edison and I would go at it for hours and hours, thousands of posts. But I have a whole new respect for him since running into people like Dan. Max was at least very clever and kept challenging me with his replies, now when we get pissy with each other, we'll offer a few jokes about it and both walk away. Dan has chosen not to do that though, he has folloed my posts in other discussions and offered more of the same. I have no patience for losers like that at all and he can expect to get smacked for it.
Nice to see that you find more in being resourceful than most do. Well done, you would fly through the 1 tonne reduction program by Suzuki.
Your comments:
"Dependence in any non domestic fuel is bad"
Is Canada really condsidered foreign these days?
anyway, I agree with most of yoru post, though the filling up less is not such a great idea. Keepign your tank topped up provides two benefits.
1) longer vehicle life and lower emissions. Running low (1/4 or less) on gas makes your vehicle burn sludge from teh bottom of teh tank, this harms your injectors, thorwing off the emission system and also kills teh fuel filter, gums up the fuels lines, fuel rail and makes the injector pins stick. Your vehicles engine works harder with a low gas level than it does pulling the added weight of a full tank.
2) Safety, if in an accident, your vehicle has a far greater risk of fire, or explosion with a low or near empty tank of gas than it does with a full tank of gas.
There is no real benefit to running with a full tank of gas, however there is a greater safety risk and damage to the vehicles emission control system by running lower on gas.
Cheap gas doesn't burn efficiently, so regular doesn't cut it, supreme has FAr too many additives for most of todays motors and especially really old ones (where the added detergents in the gas will actually start causing gasjket leaks) a mid grade is usually the best option, even at a higher price, you will benefit in teh long run and it will run a little better in the short term too.
Your comments:
"Dependence in any non domestic fuel is bad"
Is Canada really condsidered foreign these days?
anyway, I agree with most of yoru post, though the filling up less is not such a great idea. Keepign your tank topped up provides two benefits.
1) longer vehicle life and lower emissions. Running low (1/4 or less) on gas makes your vehicle burn sludge from teh bottom of teh tank, this harms your injectors, thorwing off the emission system and also kills teh fuel filter, gums up the fuels lines, fuel rail and makes the injector pins stick. Your vehicles engine works harder with a low gas level than it does pulling the added weight of a full tank.
2) Safety, if in an accident, your vehicle has a far greater risk of fire, or explosion with a low or near empty tank of gas than it does with a full tank of gas.
There is no real benefit to running with a full tank of gas, however there is a greater safety risk and damage to the vehicles emission control system by running lower on gas.
Cheap gas doesn't burn efficiently, so regular doesn't cut it, supreme has FAr too many additives for most of todays motors and especially really old ones (where the added detergents in the gas will actually start causing gasjket leaks) a mid grade is usually the best option, even at a higher price, you will benefit in teh long run and it will run a little better in the short term too.
Yes
North America is a long way from NZ
Most cars are designed around half a tank I believe
So ? to ? is right for most cars
Good mechanics will check the filters regularly
?longer vehicle life and lower emissions?
You will have to explain that one
You would think a lighter car would use less fuel
Less fuel used would mean fewer emissions as a whole
Less weight would reduce the load on the vehicle components
But you may know something I dont
One other thing if you have sludge on the tank you may want to look at changing where you buy fuel
From memory
We have regulation that determine the level of impurities in fuel
So I guess you dont have those
Anyway a rough road will shake up the tank
Starting and stoping will cause the fuel to slosh around the tank
I think you may be a victim of a myth on that one
?Your vehicles engine works harder with a low gas level than it does pulling the added weight of a full tank.?
Well that makes no sense to me
?2) Safety, if in an accident, your vehicle has a far greater risk of fire, or explosion with a low or near empty tank of gas than it does with a full tank of gas?
Well it is impossible to keep the tank full but I guess safety costs like it always has
Again you may be a victim of a myth
Most of the time petrol needs to be compressed to explode
But overall the full tank thing is not that important
People can make up their own mind
One other thing OZ
Where does the fuel line leave the tank in your car?
Top or bottom?
Or if you like
At what level is fuel to low to be sucked from the tank?
North America is a long way from NZ
Most cars are designed around half a tank I believe
So ? to ? is right for most cars
Good mechanics will check the filters regularly
?longer vehicle life and lower emissions?
You will have to explain that one
You would think a lighter car would use less fuel
Less fuel used would mean fewer emissions as a whole
Less weight would reduce the load on the vehicle components
But you may know something I dont
One other thing if you have sludge on the tank you may want to look at changing where you buy fuel
From memory
We have regulation that determine the level of impurities in fuel
So I guess you dont have those
Anyway a rough road will shake up the tank
Starting and stoping will cause the fuel to slosh around the tank
I think you may be a victim of a myth on that one
?Your vehicles engine works harder with a low gas level than it does pulling the added weight of a full tank.?
Well that makes no sense to me
?2) Safety, if in an accident, your vehicle has a far greater risk of fire, or explosion with a low or near empty tank of gas than it does with a full tank of gas?
Well it is impossible to keep the tank full but I guess safety costs like it always has
Again you may be a victim of a myth
Most of the time petrol needs to be compressed to explode
But overall the full tank thing is not that important
People can make up their own mind
One other thing OZ
Where does the fuel line leave the tank in your car?
Top or bottom?
Or if you like
At what level is fuel to low to be sucked from the tank?
Okay, longer vehicle life and lower emissions. ALL gas, whether high grade or not, gums up after only a short time in the tank, that's wjy stations try to never run dry and fuel trucks constantly keep gas stations over the 1/4 tank level. This gum, a result of additives in the gasoline such as detergents and anti-knock additives create a sludge in the bottom of the fuel tank. This is why manufacturers say to never run your car dry and if possible, refill at 1.4 tank. If you do run a fuel injected car dry, you should always replace the fuel filter as it becomes gummed up with that sludge, as do the fuel rail, injectors, valves etc.
As far as fuel contamination, Canada does have slightly stricter guidelines than the Us, that's why it has always been 'sketchy' or not recommended for Canadians to buy Us gas. Unless it is REALLY cheap, and yuo full with super, many Canadians would rather stick to our gas. It was more important during the days of the leaded gas vs unleaded but still stands today for some.
ALL gasoline has additives, these additives are mainly detergents and some anti-knock additives, supreme gas has a higher amount of detergents in order to purify the fuel by killing contaminants, however in older cars, the detergents can actually eat away at gaskets and seals that are reliant of grime to hold together (even on a 5 year old car). this obviously causes leaks and expensive repairs.
As far as better mileage. If you run yoru car low on gas for extended period of time, or as a habit, you will pick up grime off the tank. This then clogs injectors, burns hard carbon deposits on the back of the valves causing them to remain partially open, clogs the fuel rail and slows down/impedes the injector pins, this causes a sick burn which also results in a clogged PCV valve and hardened vacuum hoses due to excessive heat. This not only results in poor combustion and greater emissions, it also means that you get poor mileage.
"I think you may be a victim of a myth on that one"
Actually I am a licensed mechanic, alternate fuels certified and a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE).
"Well it is impossible to keep the tank full but I guess safety costs like it always has
Again you may be a victim of a myth
Most of the time petrol needs to be compressed to explode"
Well your almost right. Fuel VAPOUR needs to be compressed in order to explode. You can toss a cigarette into a 5 gal pail of gas without the gas igniting, it will just put the cigarette out.
A quarter tank of gas running with a 7lb vapour lock gas cap is like a bomb waiting to explode. On impact it takes all of the cars millions of dollars in engineering to stop it from exploding. With a full tank, there is less vapour to compress and combust.
This is all high school automotive 101, thought, pretty basic stuff.
"Where does the fuel line leave the tank in your car?
Top or bottom?
Or if you like
At what level is fuel to low to be sucked from the tank?"
Depends on the car, but usually the pickup screen sits just above the bottom of the tank with one pump attached just above it. The pump outlet has spigot that fits through a locking cap that is usually at the top of the tank, though that again does vary by manufacturer.
As far as siphoning fuel, it depends on the restrictor placement and also if the tank is baffled In which case you'd need a robotic snake. Sometimes you can suck it dry but for that last 15 or so years, they have been getting better at thwarting siphoning.
As far as fuel contamination, Canada does have slightly stricter guidelines than the Us, that's why it has always been 'sketchy' or not recommended for Canadians to buy Us gas. Unless it is REALLY cheap, and yuo full with super, many Canadians would rather stick to our gas. It was more important during the days of the leaded gas vs unleaded but still stands today for some.
ALL gasoline has additives, these additives are mainly detergents and some anti-knock additives, supreme gas has a higher amount of detergents in order to purify the fuel by killing contaminants, however in older cars, the detergents can actually eat away at gaskets and seals that are reliant of grime to hold together (even on a 5 year old car). this obviously causes leaks and expensive repairs.
As far as better mileage. If you run yoru car low on gas for extended period of time, or as a habit, you will pick up grime off the tank. This then clogs injectors, burns hard carbon deposits on the back of the valves causing them to remain partially open, clogs the fuel rail and slows down/impedes the injector pins, this causes a sick burn which also results in a clogged PCV valve and hardened vacuum hoses due to excessive heat. This not only results in poor combustion and greater emissions, it also means that you get poor mileage.
"I think you may be a victim of a myth on that one"
Actually I am a licensed mechanic, alternate fuels certified and a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE).
"Well it is impossible to keep the tank full but I guess safety costs like it always has
Again you may be a victim of a myth
Most of the time petrol needs to be compressed to explode"
Well your almost right. Fuel VAPOUR needs to be compressed in order to explode. You can toss a cigarette into a 5 gal pail of gas without the gas igniting, it will just put the cigarette out.
A quarter tank of gas running with a 7lb vapour lock gas cap is like a bomb waiting to explode. On impact it takes all of the cars millions of dollars in engineering to stop it from exploding. With a full tank, there is less vapour to compress and combust.
This is all high school automotive 101, thought, pretty basic stuff.
"Where does the fuel line leave the tank in your car?
Top or bottom?
Or if you like
At what level is fuel to low to be sucked from the tank?"
Depends on the car, but usually the pickup screen sits just above the bottom of the tank with one pump attached just above it. The pump outlet has spigot that fits through a locking cap that is usually at the top of the tank, though that again does vary by manufacturer.
As far as siphoning fuel, it depends on the restrictor placement and also if the tank is baffled In which case you'd need a robotic snake. Sometimes you can suck it dry but for that last 15 or so years, they have been getting better at thwarting siphoning.
Is you must have different type of fuel to us
Because I heard a different story from the auto engineers I talked to
But like I said the full tank myth is something people will have to make their own minds up about
No I was not talking about siphoning fuel
But it shows how you are thinking
detergents and anti-knock additives
Still using those are you
Ps qualifications don?t make you smarter
They just give you more things to be wrong about
Because I heard a different story from the auto engineers I talked to
But like I said the full tank myth is something people will have to make their own minds up about
No I was not talking about siphoning fuel
But it shows how you are thinking
detergents and anti-knock additives
Still using those are you
Ps qualifications don?t make you smarter
They just give you more things to be wrong about
I have to take Techno Rat's side on this one.
Seems to me I've read an article in our Sunday newspaper dispelling all Oz's myths.
Unforunately, I can't find it on-line right now.
Seems to me I've read an article in our Sunday newspaper dispelling all Oz's myths.
Unforunately, I can't find it on-line right now.
And I can dig up 20 dispeslling those MYTHS. Instead of buying into newspaper hype, why not think logically about it.
DO yuo really think that a properly runnign car with a full tank of gas is less efficient that one that has been running on a qurter tanmk for a few months? Give your head a shake and get prepared to pay the mechanics bills.
I don't min, I get people like you all the time. They read it in a book once, but why is their car in MY garage today while they are trying to get me to sign off on a conditional Air Care pass?
I'll pull the filters and throttle body, show them the crap they sucked off the bottom off the tank and them hand them the bill too.
If you want to argue with a mechanic, go ot yoru shop and tell him your BS. I don't have time for this crap, unless you want me to pull your car apart and show you the problems you are ignoring.
DO yuo really think that a properly runnign car with a full tank of gas is less efficient that one that has been running on a qurter tanmk for a few months? Give your head a shake and get prepared to pay the mechanics bills.
I don't min, I get people like you all the time. They read it in a book once, but why is their car in MY garage today while they are trying to get me to sign off on a conditional Air Care pass?
I'll pull the filters and throttle body, show them the crap they sucked off the bottom off the tank and them hand them the bill too.
If you want to argue with a mechanic, go ot yoru shop and tell him your BS. I don't have time for this crap, unless you want me to pull your car apart and show you the problems you are ignoring.
You must be highly qualified then.
Common antiknock additives include:
Tetra-ethyl lead
Methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT)
Ferrocene
Iron pentacarbonyl
Toluene
Isooctane
They still use burn rate modifiers that reduce ping and post-ignition conbustion that they were using in leaded gas in eth 70's.
Detergents are a main additive, detergents for cleaning injectors (stopping them from gumming up).
You have clearly displayed absolutely no knowledge on the subject at all, that's okay nobody expects you to know about fuels if you have not studied them,and even with facts put forth, you STILL continue to tirelessly drone on and on about absolute garbage without a clue.
If you have a plethora of engineer friends, why are you asking me? I am an automotive engineer, and I am tellign you the plain facts that you can look up yourself anytime. if you want to argue about something of which you admittedly have no knowledge, go for it, but you are on your own.
There are others on TR that share this knowledge too, I wonder why they haven't piped in to correct me?
As for teh US havign better gas than Canada, think again. We have stricter guidelines than most US states, the only one that is close to Canada is Califronia after the emissions act of 1986.
As for which grade or what the best is in the US, it varies by state and can't be determined, the fact that you even mentioned it tells me you have no idea what you are trying to debate.
For someoen with a host of automotive engineers ot talk to "from the auto engineers I talked to" you should be a little more aware, its surprising. I'd say you were probably talking to Automotive mechanics, when I was in school most accepted that certification as opposed to another 3 years of school. Out of every 60 mechanics I'd say perhaps 1 or 2 go on to become engineers or members of the SAE.
If you want to learn about gasoline: http://faqs.cs.uu.nl/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/part1.html
I feel like I've just given a child an automatic gun, just read it carefully before extracting single sentences to throw out as your argument.
if yuo want to know more, pay the cash, put in the time and go to school yourself. I don't get paid for arguing automotive with clueless people on internet forums.
I offered you teh facts, you seem to not want to accept them. Go talk to your engineer buddies and argue with them instead.
Common antiknock additives include:
Tetra-ethyl lead
Methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT)
Ferrocene
Iron pentacarbonyl
Toluene
Isooctane
They still use burn rate modifiers that reduce ping and post-ignition conbustion that they were using in leaded gas in eth 70's.
Detergents are a main additive, detergents for cleaning injectors (stopping them from gumming up).
You have clearly displayed absolutely no knowledge on the subject at all, that's okay nobody expects you to know about fuels if you have not studied them,and even with facts put forth, you STILL continue to tirelessly drone on and on about absolute garbage without a clue.
If you have a plethora of engineer friends, why are you asking me? I am an automotive engineer, and I am tellign you the plain facts that you can look up yourself anytime. if you want to argue about something of which you admittedly have no knowledge, go for it, but you are on your own.
There are others on TR that share this knowledge too, I wonder why they haven't piped in to correct me?
As for teh US havign better gas than Canada, think again. We have stricter guidelines than most US states, the only one that is close to Canada is Califronia after the emissions act of 1986.
As for which grade or what the best is in the US, it varies by state and can't be determined, the fact that you even mentioned it tells me you have no idea what you are trying to debate.
For someoen with a host of automotive engineers ot talk to "from the auto engineers I talked to" you should be a little more aware, its surprising. I'd say you were probably talking to Automotive mechanics, when I was in school most accepted that certification as opposed to another 3 years of school. Out of every 60 mechanics I'd say perhaps 1 or 2 go on to become engineers or members of the SAE.
If you want to learn about gasoline: http://faqs.cs.uu.nl/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/part1.html
I feel like I've just given a child an automatic gun, just read it carefully before extracting single sentences to throw out as your argument.
if yuo want to know more, pay the cash, put in the time and go to school yourself. I don't get paid for arguing automotive with clueless people on internet forums.
I offered you teh facts, you seem to not want to accept them. Go talk to your engineer buddies and argue with them instead.
I am from New Zealand not the United States of America
Yes we have a different fuel to you
They use different additives
Duh its not that hard I am sure you can remember who you are talking to if you try really hard
I wrote in my first post
Do not fill the car up any more than you have too (why carry around the weight of extra fuel)
Well you screwed that up
I did not say run around with an empty tank
What does extra mean?
Take reading lessons you seem to need them
You lost the chance of a meaningful discussion right there
But in the next post I wrote
So ? to ? is right for most cars
Still not saying empty
With your reading lessons get some help with your spelling
One other thing
Just in case scenarios mean nothing to me
They have been distorted by sales and marketing so much it is a pointless argument now
I did not ask you
You got on your soapbox and started preaching
My original post
http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=267053&messageID=2528622
Was an attempt to help someone with the rising price of fuel
You do go on and on and on
Talk about off topic
Lets see if I can get this right
The Internet is a game
The real world is outside
Try life you?ll like it
Now who was it that said that
Why the others have not piped in
Well they may think it?s a waste of time arguing with someone who conveniently misreads a post just to start an argument
I think you do it on purpose
Maybe they think an off topic rant is not worth responding to
Your posts are so much like trolling it?s not funny
But that?s life
Loony?s are a part of life
PS your hatred of the yanks is making you blind
New Zealand remember not yank
Got it now?
The clue
Its on the map
My engineer buddies laughed when I showed them what you wrote
I joined in
Yes we have a different fuel to you
They use different additives
Duh its not that hard I am sure you can remember who you are talking to if you try really hard
I wrote in my first post
Do not fill the car up any more than you have too (why carry around the weight of extra fuel)
Well you screwed that up
I did not say run around with an empty tank
What does extra mean?
Take reading lessons you seem to need them
You lost the chance of a meaningful discussion right there
But in the next post I wrote
So ? to ? is right for most cars
Still not saying empty
With your reading lessons get some help with your spelling
One other thing
Just in case scenarios mean nothing to me
They have been distorted by sales and marketing so much it is a pointless argument now
I did not ask you
You got on your soapbox and started preaching
My original post
http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-6230-0.html?forumID=102&threadID=267053&messageID=2528622
Was an attempt to help someone with the rising price of fuel
You do go on and on and on
Talk about off topic
Lets see if I can get this right
The Internet is a game
The real world is outside
Try life you?ll like it
Now who was it that said that
Why the others have not piped in
Well they may think it?s a waste of time arguing with someone who conveniently misreads a post just to start an argument
I think you do it on purpose
Maybe they think an off topic rant is not worth responding to
Your posts are so much like trolling it?s not funny
But that?s life
Loony?s are a part of life
PS your hatred of the yanks is making you blind
New Zealand remember not yank
Got it now?
The clue
Its on the map
My engineer buddies laughed when I showed them what you wrote
I joined in
I stated several times over that you shouldn't run less than a 1/4 tank. I didn't say empty either, perhaps a few comprehension skills upgrades would help you, but I did say why manufacturers don't recommend running too low and, if empty, the need to replace the fuel filter. So if fuel does not gum up your tank and sludge as well as other contaminants commonly found in fuels, why would they recommend replacing the fuel filter? Does it help strain the kiwi juice or something?
Why would that be, do you think?
Perhaps your engineer buddies can help you with that one.
Why would that be, do you think?
Perhaps your engineer buddies can help you with that one.
You said, "As for teh US havign better gas than Canada, think again. We have stricter guidelines than most US states, the only one that is close to Canada is Califronia after the emissions act of 1986."
One question for you:
It's an established fact that the various chemicals added to fuel in places like California and Canada (year round) and elsewhere (typically in summer months) to help fight ozone and smog actually decrease gas mileage. Usually by 1-3%.
Now the question. Don't you think that while decreasing the pollutants put out is good that decreasing the gas mileage is bad?
I mean really, so I put out less pollutants per gallon but I end up using more gallons.
Nice! Who was the freaking genius that came up with this idea?
One question for you:
It's an established fact that the various chemicals added to fuel in places like California and Canada (year round) and elsewhere (typically in summer months) to help fight ozone and smog actually decrease gas mileage. Usually by 1-3%.
Now the question. Don't you think that while decreasing the pollutants put out is good that decreasing the gas mileage is bad?
I mean really, so I put out less pollutants per gallon but I end up using more gallons.
Nice! Who was the freaking genius that came up with this idea?
It is actually vehicles in North America that are most responsible for poor fuel combustion. Our vehicles are built cheap, the engines are of the absolute minimum to pass specs. This is how they keep car prices low so that people here will buy them.
It seems that people here are far more concerned abotu the bottom line when buying a car than the quality of engineering.
that's why identical models in Europe are actually nuilt way better than out here, even with North American manufacturers products, European versions are built better that North American.
Additives are ALWAYS in gas, summer, winter, fall in all countries, additives were initially used to stop knock and ping due to pre and post ignition combustion. In North American this is even mroeso due to lighter weight materials where the engines run hotter, thus causing ignition in the exhaust process. Ford designed a thermactor system for reburing emitted gas as so much fuel was wasted creating higher emissions.
GM used a similar system but just a check valve to recycle exhaust into the manifold again. and so on for various manufacturers.
With the poorly designed, cheap engines we face here, we have no hope for getting a full burn and getting maximum fuel efficiency.
Just take the compact spare tire for example.
they put a cheap, steel stamped rim with a 60km tire in the back (apparently) to make the car lighter and improve mileage.
While is does reduce trunk weight a slight bit, the key advantage was the cost of a compact spare compared to a full size tire and rim. Again, it merely keeps the consumers bottom line lower, while offering a meanial fuel advantage.
While people around teh world think we live in prosperous and rich countries, everyone has a heap of money from such lucrative enterprises in North America, the reality is people are just too cheap and demand cheap crap of teh lowest quality.
Just look at our retail environment, same thing. Cheap crap manufactured merely for offering lower prices to entice North American consumers.
It seems that people here are far more concerned abotu the bottom line when buying a car than the quality of engineering.
that's why identical models in Europe are actually nuilt way better than out here, even with North American manufacturers products, European versions are built better that North American.
Additives are ALWAYS in gas, summer, winter, fall in all countries, additives were initially used to stop knock and ping due to pre and post ignition combustion. In North American this is even mroeso due to lighter weight materials where the engines run hotter, thus causing ignition in the exhaust process. Ford designed a thermactor system for reburing emitted gas as so much fuel was wasted creating higher emissions.
GM used a similar system but just a check valve to recycle exhaust into the manifold again. and so on for various manufacturers.
With the poorly designed, cheap engines we face here, we have no hope for getting a full burn and getting maximum fuel efficiency.
Just take the compact spare tire for example.
they put a cheap, steel stamped rim with a 60km tire in the back (apparently) to make the car lighter and improve mileage.
While is does reduce trunk weight a slight bit, the key advantage was the cost of a compact spare compared to a full size tire and rim. Again, it merely keeps the consumers bottom line lower, while offering a meanial fuel advantage.
While people around teh world think we live in prosperous and rich countries, everyone has a heap of money from such lucrative enterprises in North America, the reality is people are just too cheap and demand cheap crap of teh lowest quality.
Just look at our retail environment, same thing. Cheap crap manufactured merely for offering lower prices to entice North American consumers.
?1) longer vehicle life and lower emissions. Running low (1/4 or less) on gas makes your vehicle burn sludge from teh bottom of teh tank, this harms your injectors, thorwing off the emission system and also kills teh fuel filter, gums up the fuels lines, fuel rail and makes the injector pins stick. Your vehicles engine works harder with a low gas level than it does pulling the added weight of a full tank.?
Note the statement (? or less)
No you didn?t say empty
I did not say less than a ?
But thanks for all the info you posted it helps people to understand why manufacturers do what the do
It is well known the US cars are of low quality
I did not think Canada was the same
How many carmakers are there?
PS I did not say what we laughed about
Note the statement (? or less)
No you didn?t say empty
I did not say less than a ?
But thanks for all the info you posted it helps people to understand why manufacturers do what the do
It is well known the US cars are of low quality
I did not think Canada was the same
How many carmakers are there?
PS I did not say what we laughed about
We didn't actiually disagree, we just couldn't see the middle ground. You accused me of stating something I didn't and vice versa, but you have seen the difference and we actually don't even have any argument in our posts about it.
Fair enough on taht then,
As for car makers in canada, I am abotu to leave so i can't look it up, but we do have quite a few in the eastern provinces, that also make cars for teh US market. From what I know they are the same with the exception that we have to follow emissions guidelines similar to California, but that is pretty much everywhere now.
Now if I had said the USA makes crappy cars, that would be anti-American wouldn't it?
We don't build anything, not just cars, as well as they do in Europe. But times are changing, Europeans are starting to feel an economic crunch and are seeking price over quality in many areas, not just vehicles.
Fair enough on taht then,
As for car makers in canada, I am abotu to leave so i can't look it up, but we do have quite a few in the eastern provinces, that also make cars for teh US market. From what I know they are the same with the exception that we have to follow emissions guidelines similar to California, but that is pretty much everywhere now.
Now if I had said the USA makes crappy cars, that would be anti-American wouldn't it?
We don't build anything, not just cars, as well as they do in Europe. But times are changing, Europeans are starting to feel an economic crunch and are seeking price over quality in many areas, not just vehicles.
That I make no mistakes
I will apologise if necessary
It is part of being human nobody is perfect
But there is a type of person who takes great enjoyment in rubbing peoples faces in their mistakes
Some of them will go on and on until the victim explodes
Then the creeps act as if they are innocent
Try not to be one of those will you
No I did not call you a creep
That would mean you were being paranoid
I know you are not
Also comparing character flaws is stupid
Anyway there is always a need for cheep things
Sometimes its all people can afford
?Now if I had said the USA makes crappy cars, that would be anti-American wouldn't it??
Maybe you are paranoid
It is very difficult for first world countries to compete with the third world
Some of the poor will work for food
I know I can?t compete with that
Damn some of that looks pompous
Never mind just another flaw
Its good to be human
I will apologise if necessary
It is part of being human nobody is perfect
But there is a type of person who takes great enjoyment in rubbing peoples faces in their mistakes
Some of them will go on and on until the victim explodes
Then the creeps act as if they are innocent
Try not to be one of those will you
No I did not call you a creep
That would mean you were being paranoid
I know you are not
Also comparing character flaws is stupid
Anyway there is always a need for cheep things
Sometimes its all people can afford
?Now if I had said the USA makes crappy cars, that would be anti-American wouldn't it??
Maybe you are paranoid
It is very difficult for first world countries to compete with the third world
Some of the poor will work for food
I know I can?t compete with that
Damn some of that looks pompous
Never mind just another flaw
Its good to be human
While it might not matter to you kiwi's down there, in the Northern Latitudes it is important. Canada is rather North if my maps are correct, as is most of Europe, and that is even taught in the driving schools. Why you ask? Because of condisation. Gasoline is made up of water as well as oils stuff. (hence: Hydro-Carbons.) When a tank is kept near full there is less condisation and there full less water in the tank. In winter the water aclumulating in a tank kept at less than ⅓ full will acumulate enough water to freeze the fuel system. (As in car don't work.) Your engineer friends should have known this.
As for the additives, you haven't got a clue here as to the chemicle make up of modern petrolem products. Yes they do have additives, all of them do, and yours does too. They actual mixture will depend on the climate area where they will be consumed. Basic Fuel Management Courses cover this. -d
As for the additives, you haven't got a clue here as to the chemicle make up of modern petrolem products. Yes they do have additives, all of them do, and yours does too. They actual mixture will depend on the climate area where they will be consumed. Basic Fuel Management Courses cover this. -d
There is also a difference in the fuel additives for the different seasons, to help with freezing and such.
Another big problem with the empty tank is for the long term life of your car.
There is the condensation previously mentioned that makes your car run like crap, but it also causes the inside of the tank to rust. The flakes get knocked off when you fill up and settle to the bottom of the tank.
The further down in the tank you get, the more of the particles you are sucking into your engine. When is the last time you changed your fuel filter?
I consider 1/4 as empty. I can't do 1/2 because I would have to get gas every day instead of every other day like I do now. (700 miles a week minimum).
Another big problem with the empty tank is for the long term life of your car.
There is the condensation previously mentioned that makes your car run like crap, but it also causes the inside of the tank to rust. The flakes get knocked off when you fill up and settle to the bottom of the tank.
The further down in the tank you get, the more of the particles you are sucking into your engine. When is the last time you changed your fuel filter?
I consider 1/4 as empty. I can't do 1/2 because I would have to get gas every day instead of every other day like I do now. (700 miles a week minimum).
This is a very important off topic discussion
What is not needed is more people fooling around
You should both be ashamed of yourselves
What is not needed is more people fooling around
You should both be ashamed of yourselves
I am sure you are but I figured I'd check, sometimes its hard to tell without voice inflection and so far you have been fairly serious about this issue.
In an off topic part of the discussion
With no real importance or relevance to the real subject
The real subject
People on low incomes trying to make ends meet and the effect that the rising price of gas has on their lives
A very serious subject that
An important one as well
Some things I know
They will not be able to fill their cars up very often
Some will struggle to keep at above the ? full mark
Car repairs will be impossible
Maintenance will be nonexistent
Make this little argument about ? ? and full tanks look pretty stupid
Bad bad ratty
No cheese or wine tomorrow
With no real importance or relevance to the real subject
The real subject
People on low incomes trying to make ends meet and the effect that the rising price of gas has on their lives
A very serious subject that
An important one as well
Some things I know
They will not be able to fill their cars up very often
Some will struggle to keep at above the ? full mark
Car repairs will be impossible
Maintenance will be nonexistent
Make this little argument about ? ? and full tanks look pretty stupid
Bad bad ratty
No cheese or wine tomorrow
It just is.
And Techno, I'm not arguing wither it tough to pay for the gas, but if one can only afford to pay for a ⅛ tank of go-juice it should be the top ⅛ not the bottom ⅛. That also leaves enough for emergencies, such as trips to the Hospital, or Flood Evacuation. -d
And Techno, I'm not arguing wither it tough to pay for the gas, but if one can only afford to pay for a ⅛ tank of go-juice it should be the top ⅛ not the bottom ⅛. That also leaves enough for emergencies, such as trips to the Hospital, or Flood Evacuation. -d
But I don?t see it happening
The gas stored in the tank is the same as money sitting idle
They will just use it to try and stretch the budget
And hope there are no emergencies
It would be nice to live in an ideal world
But this is the one we are stuck with
The gas stored in the tank is the same as money sitting idle
They will just use it to try and stretch the budget
And hope there are no emergencies
It would be nice to live in an ideal world
But this is the one we are stuck with
In no way do I think the Russian army was not forced at gunpoint to stay for the fight until every last one was dead. They were myrdered by their own as well as the Nazis.
Germany had almost conquered southern Russia at one point, working towards Caucasan and the oil wells. that woul dhave offered teh German war machine a much needed boost right there.
But as arrogant as Stalin was, Hitler was too and wanted to make a point by taking our Stalingrad as it held Stalins name. He pulled troops from further south where they were successful and, against the wishes of many a commander whom he quickly let go, he ordered an invasion in Stalingrad.
They were simply outmatched, Russians had nothign to lose by sitting there in the snow for days while fighting, Nazi's were not equipped or used to it. Russians weren't used ot eating well, being warm etc. They had been repressed for too many years already and pretty much just stood their ground wihle being shot en mass. But the retreating and destruction of anythign left behind was a good tactical move, it allowed the Nazi's to advance but acquire nothing.
It was such a key turning point, as were the Battle of Britain, Battle of the Bulge and several others. Without Russia, the end would have been much different, if in Allied favour at all.
Sure, D-Day saw a great insurgence of allied troops. Those troops beat a tiring and overworked army back into Berlin, but should it have happened four years earlier, I don't think it would have seen the same outcome, which even then was only barely positive.
Germany had almost conquered southern Russia at one point, working towards Caucasan and the oil wells. that woul dhave offered teh German war machine a much needed boost right there.
But as arrogant as Stalin was, Hitler was too and wanted to make a point by taking our Stalingrad as it held Stalins name. He pulled troops from further south where they were successful and, against the wishes of many a commander whom he quickly let go, he ordered an invasion in Stalingrad.
They were simply outmatched, Russians had nothign to lose by sitting there in the snow for days while fighting, Nazi's were not equipped or used to it. Russians weren't used ot eating well, being warm etc. They had been repressed for too many years already and pretty much just stood their ground wihle being shot en mass. But the retreating and destruction of anythign left behind was a good tactical move, it allowed the Nazi's to advance but acquire nothing.
It was such a key turning point, as were the Battle of Britain, Battle of the Bulge and several others. Without Russia, the end would have been much different, if in Allied favour at all.
Sure, D-Day saw a great insurgence of allied troops. Those troops beat a tiring and overworked army back into Berlin, but should it have happened four years earlier, I don't think it would have seen the same outcome, which even then was only barely positive.
... There most probabley not have been a Battle of the Bulge. The deaster of that missadventure (on the Russian Front) was the single most important turning point of the War in Europe. A stragic blunder from the begining. Lessons learned? Doesn't look like it. The US's misadventure in Iraq is proving not much different. Sad times indeed. -d
I have read and heard several reports from people identified as oil industry analysts that increasing US oil production would have little or no impact on the price of gas in the US.
Even if they could start pumping oil from restricted areas tomorrow, the limited amount available combined with limits to how fast it can be extracted would make for only a small percentage increase in supply.
I read once that the total amount of oil available in ANWR is something like a 90 day supply of crude for the US.
The only way we are going to bring down the price of gas while we wait for alternatives is to reduce global energy consumption.
Chas
Even if they could start pumping oil from restricted areas tomorrow, the limited amount available combined with limits to how fast it can be extracted would make for only a small percentage increase in supply.
I read once that the total amount of oil available in ANWR is something like a 90 day supply of crude for the US.
The only way we are going to bring down the price of gas while we wait for alternatives is to reduce global energy consumption.
Chas
Oil pumped from under the land is easy
The pumps work ok with a minimum of attention and maintenance
Oil pumped from under the sea is different
You need a platform
Workers to run the platform
You have to ship the oil
On land you can pipe it
That is old and I am sure things have changed
But I doubt it is the same cost for land and sea wells
It is not an excuse but an observation
The other thing to think about is the risk to human life
I don?t think anyone wants cheep oil that puts people at risk
Sorry I know that is an easy answer and a cheap shot
Treat the safety part as a separate post
It is not meant to be a personal attack
Everyone has different needs
Some risk their lives all the time
It is only my opinion
Damn it I should just delete it
The pumps work ok with a minimum of attention and maintenance
Oil pumped from under the sea is different
You need a platform
Workers to run the platform
You have to ship the oil
On land you can pipe it
That is old and I am sure things have changed
But I doubt it is the same cost for land and sea wells
It is not an excuse but an observation
The other thing to think about is the risk to human life
I don?t think anyone wants cheep oil that puts people at risk
Sorry I know that is an easy answer and a cheap shot
Treat the safety part as a separate post
It is not meant to be a personal attack
Everyone has different needs
Some risk their lives all the time
It is only my opinion
Damn it I should just delete it
So, just because something would have little impact, we shouldn't do it?
Obama's position so far on US drilling is that it will take 10 years to get to market.
Ok, if we start now we'll have it in 10 years. But, the longer we wait, the longer it is until we get it.
It's kind of like someone who weighs 400 lbs saying that it will take too long to lose enough weight to have any meaningful impact.
Well, you have to start somewhere, someday.
Obama's position so far on US drilling is that it will take 10 years to get to market.
Ok, if we start now we'll have it in 10 years. But, the longer we wait, the longer it is until we get it.
It's kind of like someone who weighs 400 lbs saying that it will take too long to lose enough weight to have any meaningful impact.
Well, you have to start somewhere, someday.
You can get all the numbers here:http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/servicerpt/anwr/index.html
Over the last 8 years there have been differing reports on the project, with each report providing seemingly less and less oil each time.
In essence, IF they get the go ahead today, they won't see a single drop for at least 10-12 years, and that is for teh initial/largest know reserve. There are quite a few smaller reserves, but each time an exploration project is allowed, it will take another 10 years before oil is produced.
Regardless if you get to drill or not, the global oil price will remain the same. Even if you pull it out at $3 a barrel, it will still be on the world market at $140 barrel.
If your theory is correct, in Canada we should be payign less for our gasoline that you do in the. 60% of your imported gas comes from Canada. With refineries just down teh street and a pipeline that runs from Alberta through to IOCO (about 15 mins from my house), we STILL pay a higher price for gas than the Americans we sell it to, and we mainly drill out own.
Over the last 8 years there have been differing reports on the project, with each report providing seemingly less and less oil each time.
In essence, IF they get the go ahead today, they won't see a single drop for at least 10-12 years, and that is for teh initial/largest know reserve. There are quite a few smaller reserves, but each time an exploration project is allowed, it will take another 10 years before oil is produced.
Regardless if you get to drill or not, the global oil price will remain the same. Even if you pull it out at $3 a barrel, it will still be on the world market at $140 barrel.
If your theory is correct, in Canada we should be payign less for our gasoline that you do in the. 60% of your imported gas comes from Canada. With refineries just down teh street and a pipeline that runs from Alberta through to IOCO (about 15 mins from my house), we STILL pay a higher price for gas than the Americans we sell it to, and we mainly drill out own.
use their own products or purchase their products from over seas?
Which puts money back into the economy and which sucks money out of the economy?
With Canada as dependent on the US economy as it is, it is also in Canadas interest that we are not getting our oil from over seas.
Which puts money back into the economy and which sucks money out of the economy?
With Canada as dependent on the US economy as it is, it is also in Canadas interest that we are not getting our oil from over seas.
Right now you drill your own oil, but you import the bulk of it. Again, most comes from Canada but another 40% comes from many other sources.
Canada also buys and sells oil, most of our sales are to the USA, and nobody is arguing the importance of our trade with the USA, don't start getting defensive.
No matter how much oil you get overseas, you will always get a greater benefit buying it from Canada and yes Canada benefits from selling oil, to whomever it is.
Canada also has options for oil sales to Europe though, which the US does not at this time, nor can you provide a supply as your own supply falls short of your own demand. the difference is, we are not dependent on your oil, incomes yes but that can be replaced with trade within the commonwealth and other allied nations.
What you and many others fail to recognize is that drilling ANWR is not going to reduce the cost for gas at the pumps.
Even if drilling started in ANWR, there is still going to be the same, ever increasing level of demand for at least 10 - 12 years until you can start producing your own there.
While it has been suggested that just the knowledge of your drilling would bring down prices, this is very hard to believe as nobody is going to be scared out of gouging by something that WILL be in the future. It will take a good 8-10 years later that other competitors start to see any increase in supply.
With the number of new vehicles put on the road each month, to think that a small increase in your own supply would have any effect on gas at the pump is a bit far fetched. By th etime you actually start seeing any oil out of teh ground, your demand will be so high that it will probbaly be worse than today.
The resolutions are to reduce the demand, reduce the need for oil and STOP FIGHTING THE DAMN WAR. War has been responsible for almost every unrealistic hike in history.
With the Taliban sabotaging the Afghan pipeline all the time, and a thinning force there to protect against sabotage, there is no way you'll see a price drop for a long time.
I know you are thinking that if you drill ANWR you would reduce/eliminate your demand in Saudi Arabia, but that's absurd; with the amount of oil you import compared to the amount you'll get from ANWR, when you need even more than you do today, they are simply not going to balance each other out.
ANWR is NOT the answer, it is a temporary solution, and even then it doesn't work because it is not an immediate temporary solution. It is just a stupid idea.
Drilling ANWR may be neccessary one day, it may produce some valuable oil for you, but it sure as hell isn't a solution for the current problem. That's just silly
Canada also buys and sells oil, most of our sales are to the USA, and nobody is arguing the importance of our trade with the USA, don't start getting defensive.
No matter how much oil you get overseas, you will always get a greater benefit buying it from Canada and yes Canada benefits from selling oil, to whomever it is.
Canada also has options for oil sales to Europe though, which the US does not at this time, nor can you provide a supply as your own supply falls short of your own demand. the difference is, we are not dependent on your oil, incomes yes but that can be replaced with trade within the commonwealth and other allied nations.
What you and many others fail to recognize is that drilling ANWR is not going to reduce the cost for gas at the pumps.
Even if drilling started in ANWR, there is still going to be the same, ever increasing level of demand for at least 10 - 12 years until you can start producing your own there.
While it has been suggested that just the knowledge of your drilling would bring down prices, this is very hard to believe as nobody is going to be scared out of gouging by something that WILL be in the future. It will take a good 8-10 years later that other competitors start to see any increase in supply.
With the number of new vehicles put on the road each month, to think that a small increase in your own supply would have any effect on gas at the pump is a bit far fetched. By th etime you actually start seeing any oil out of teh ground, your demand will be so high that it will probbaly be worse than today.
The resolutions are to reduce the demand, reduce the need for oil and STOP FIGHTING THE DAMN WAR. War has been responsible for almost every unrealistic hike in history.
With the Taliban sabotaging the Afghan pipeline all the time, and a thinning force there to protect against sabotage, there is no way you'll see a price drop for a long time.
I know you are thinking that if you drill ANWR you would reduce/eliminate your demand in Saudi Arabia, but that's absurd; with the amount of oil you import compared to the amount you'll get from ANWR, when you need even more than you do today, they are simply not going to balance each other out.
ANWR is NOT the answer, it is a temporary solution, and even then it doesn't work because it is not an immediate temporary solution. It is just a stupid idea.
Drilling ANWR may be neccessary one day, it may produce some valuable oil for you, but it sure as hell isn't a solution for the current problem. That's just silly
if nothing else, is what I am concerned about.
Another note, just being silly here, but if it DOES take the alleged 10 years, at what point should we START?
I was not getting defensive about trade, or putting Canada down. We both benefit or we both get hurt.
If that 40% is taking our money and putting it into over sea markets, that is less money that stays in our system, and weakens us financially. When we are hurt, Canada is hurt.
We need to drill, just like Canada needs to drill.
No, it won't lower the price now, but it does work for the future.
It would be nice if SOMEONE would come up with an alternative for transportation, leaving that oil for industry instead by the time it comes on-line.
Another note, just being silly here, but if it DOES take the alleged 10 years, at what point should we START?
I was not getting defensive about trade, or putting Canada down. We both benefit or we both get hurt.
If that 40% is taking our money and putting it into over sea markets, that is less money that stays in our system, and weakens us financially. When we are hurt, Canada is hurt.
We need to drill, just like Canada needs to drill.
No, it won't lower the price now, but it does work for the future.
It would be nice if SOMEONE would come up with an alternative for transportation, leaving that oil for industry instead by the time it comes on-line.
"It would be nice if SOMEONE would come up with an alternative for transportation, leaving that oil for industry instead by the time it comes on-line."
Not quite but getting closer:
Brazil is using 25% less gasoline in most vehicles (as mandated) with a great portion of them becoming entirely Ethanol based. This makes Brazil the world's first oil independent country.
ANWR is NOT going to provide 40% of your oil consumption. At todays standards it would provide less than 10%, based on predicted number of barrels per day. By the time 12 years runs by, for EACH of the DOZENS of smaller exploration projects, not just from the word 'GO', how many more cars will you have on the streets and how much MORE oil will you need and how LITTLE of that would be produced by ANWR? We are talking a very insignificant number, especially after the billions spent to get there, and even then the amount of ANWR oil has changed a great deal over the last 8 years, so the projected numbers are way off base. You produce 85 million barrels a day in America, with an additional million per day, will you get that 40% you are looking for? Nope, not a chance in hell!
In short, NO, you will NOT see 40% of your consumption taken care of 12 years down the road. You will be in the same mess you are today, except 12 years behind in doing something about it.
As far as Canada is concerned:
"Canada's energy minister said Sunday he pushed at an emergency meeting of oil producing and consuming countries for more transparency in global markets to allow supply and demand to be the biggest influences on oil prices."
"Although Canada accounts for less than three per cent of the world's oil production, it sits on 15 per cent of the world's reserves -- second only to Saudi Arabia -- mostly concentrated in northeast Alberta."
"Despite its relatively small share of the world oil market, Lunn noted that Canada is one of the few countries in the world that is capable of significantly increasing production.
The Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers said last week that Canada's oil output will nearly double to 4.5 million barrels per day by 2020. More than $100 billion worth of investments is on the books to triple oil sands production, which now supplies slightly more than one million barrels per day."
Right now, production costs for drilling in the Abertan oil sands are the worlds highest, yet you feel that by building new refineries or expanding existing ones which are already at capacity, and shipping oil from ANWR to the US, you will see lower prices from a little pittance of available oil?
I'd say that it is just a bunch of oil hungry Americans opposing change, not exactly a realistic or viable argument when it has been proven to help in other parts of the world. Most nations outside of North America have been recycling and using better resource management practices for decades, and they are much better off for it too.
Not quite but getting closer:
Brazil is using 25% less gasoline in most vehicles (as mandated) with a great portion of them becoming entirely Ethanol based. This makes Brazil the world's first oil independent country.
ANWR is NOT going to provide 40% of your oil consumption. At todays standards it would provide less than 10%, based on predicted number of barrels per day. By the time 12 years runs by, for EACH of the DOZENS of smaller exploration projects, not just from the word 'GO', how many more cars will you have on the streets and how much MORE oil will you need and how LITTLE of that would be produced by ANWR? We are talking a very insignificant number, especially after the billions spent to get there, and even then the amount of ANWR oil has changed a great deal over the last 8 years, so the projected numbers are way off base. You produce 85 million barrels a day in America, with an additional million per day, will you get that 40% you are looking for? Nope, not a chance in hell!
In short, NO, you will NOT see 40% of your consumption taken care of 12 years down the road. You will be in the same mess you are today, except 12 years behind in doing something about it.
As far as Canada is concerned:
"Canada's energy minister said Sunday he pushed at an emergency meeting of oil producing and consuming countries for more transparency in global markets to allow supply and demand to be the biggest influences on oil prices."
"Although Canada accounts for less than three per cent of the world's oil production, it sits on 15 per cent of the world's reserves -- second only to Saudi Arabia -- mostly concentrated in northeast Alberta."
"Despite its relatively small share of the world oil market, Lunn noted that Canada is one of the few countries in the world that is capable of significantly increasing production.
The Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers said last week that Canada's oil output will nearly double to 4.5 million barrels per day by 2020. More than $100 billion worth of investments is on the books to triple oil sands production, which now supplies slightly more than one million barrels per day."
Right now, production costs for drilling in the Abertan oil sands are the worlds highest, yet you feel that by building new refineries or expanding existing ones which are already at capacity, and shipping oil from ANWR to the US, you will see lower prices from a little pittance of available oil?
I'd say that it is just a bunch of oil hungry Americans opposing change, not exactly a realistic or viable argument when it has been proven to help in other parts of the world. Most nations outside of North America have been recycling and using better resource management practices for decades, and they are much better off for it too.
- Keyboard Shortcuts:
- Prev
- Next
- Toggle
