Discussion on:

Help desk techs are owed overtime pay

A recent article in Redmond Magazine clued me in to the fact that support techs may be legally eligible for overtime pay here in the U.S., even if they are "salaried" employees. I blogged about this issue here:



http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/helpdesk/?p=324



Some managers think that overtime pay is the biggest risk to the bottom line, and they hope that paying techs a guaranteed salary is the way around that risk. I believe the loophole in my job description reads "and other duties as necessary."



Most employers will probably try and avoid paying overtime. How does your company work around the issue? Are you offered comp time in place of overtime wages, or is there some other type of in-kind reimbursement?



Do you plan to pursue the issue of overtime pay with your employer?

Don't do unpaid overtime...

And it's just as easily done as said.

The trick is to make sure you know what your employment contract says when you sign it.

And when/if you are asked to do overtime, make sure you get written confirmation of whether you will get paid for the OT or time off in lieu.

And with the economy the way it is, I know some people are just glad to get any hours they can. The sad truth is, a lot of employees might have a legitimate worry about being let go over something like contested overtime pay.

I had this discussion with one of my senior managers, we often work unpaid hours and his view was that my job had been designed to be completed within my contracted hours, therefore if I didn't manage it all in the allotted time it was my fault, not his. As a result of this, I now stop at 5 pm and let the work pile up. from time to time I am offered overtime pay to clear the backlog, which I invariably decline, citing the decision given earlier. Bolshy? of course, but I find that I get help from other members of the team instead.

The university I worked for claimed that, too, and said that any position that was consistently requiring OT should be "redesigned."



I chose to handle things as you do, and avoid working over hours. As you point out though, if they require you to work OT, they gotta pay.

Thanks for chiming in, Jeff.

Then the question becomes whether you are up for the task or whether they can't plan anything properly. I had this problem before. When another programmer couldn't do what I was supposed to do in the same amount of time, the manager still blamed me. I asked him why he needed 70 hours to develop the design, when I was supposed to do all the cut-up, database design AND programming in 50. I worked an additional 50 hours for free on that project. Needless to say, I left that company.

I've worked for companies that did whatever they could to not pay overtime, even for non-salaried employees. They want maximum output for minimum cost.

One company that I worked for didn't pay OT unless you worked 40 hours in the week. If I had Monday off (vacation, sick or holiday) I would not get OT for the 12-hour Wednesday.

My current employer set it up so anyone over a certain paygrade got straight time for OT. They then made all IT positions at that level or higher! Those that are allowed to work OT have lost a lot of money.

On a side note: You can't complain to the Labor Board because my employer is State government and they run the Labor Board! Try filing a Worker's Comp claim and see what mess they drag you through!

I don't work OT anymore. Even if I'm at a remote site. I will leave in time to get back to the main office (or keep track of it and use it some other day if I need that extra 15 minutes). If the job is not done, too bad. No pay for OT means no work and they pay more in the end because of travel costs! It's really messed up.

EMD

Electronics_md,

I work for the same state, though a different dept/agency. It is really bad form to leave a job incomplete at a precarious stage. I have found that my boss is more than willing to allow comp to have the job completed than left hanging and incurring additional travel expense. I never take OT pay, I only take comp, and I only get straight time for it.

Neither are allowed here. OT as pay is forbidden and OT as Comp is severely frowned upon.

The part about only getting straight time during a week where you didn't work 40 hours is the way it is where I work. I think that is a fairly standard practice though since it was the same way at my last job and I know others that have the same deal in their non-state jobs. In normal weeks though we get comp time at 1.5 hours per hour of OT though.

I should have explained it a bit better...we get 1.5:1 for OT if we are below a certain paygrade, however, only level 1 techs and helpdesk analysts are below that level. Level 2 and 3 techs/admins are at or above the requisite paygrade and receive 1:1 OT or comp.

That isn't the way it work for me. It pretty much is you either get 1.5 hours comp for every hour of OT or you are an "administrator" and you get no extra compensation of any kind for OT.

You mention that you work for state government, EMD. There are different rules regarding how the public sector can compensate employees in the US. The public sector can use comp time, for instance.



I think these issues are confusing, so many employees are like you, and they do what they can to avoid working OT.



The ironic thing is, employed the right way, OT could be a great motivator for employees, and employers could see increased morale and productivity in situations where the extra-hours work is really needed.

Great career move - NOT. I presume that you can be onsite and working on a CRITICAL PROJECT and at 5pm BYE BYE, I AM GONE no matter if the server is left hanging or in some non-working state????? Pardon me but as AMERICAN WORKERS we, at least I, take fierce pride in what I do for my accounts and your work ethic is horrible. I'd can your ass in a heartbeat if you left a site and left something hanging simply because of overtime.

OT is not allowed. I get grief if I work ANY OT. I have a high work ethic and put in 100%+ in everything I do. If I worked for you, and you allowed OT, I'd stay until the job was complete. I don't have that option here. It's stupid but some number cruncher thinks they know best.

Wow, really. I had no idea it was un-American to take it dry. You've made a lot of assumptions about this persons situation that really can't be made based on what was written. I admire your passion and pride, but if you went off like that on people while working for me - we'd have to have a career planning session.

Reisen55,

The sentiment in your post may not apply to ElectronicsMD, and it certainly does not apply to myself, but it is the sentiment of a large majority of state workers. They have assumed an institutionalized mentality.

"I work for the state. My job is from 7:45 to 4:30 and then I go home. I refuse to put in any extra effort/time/etc. There is nothing you can do about it because we are unionized. You will be assimilated into the underqualified and underperforming collective of mindless robots."

I came from private sector so when I see this mentality it drives me nuts. It really makes me want to fire all of the idiots who are getting ready to retire from jobs where they have been allowed to stagnate in for 30+ years. It pisses me off even more that my tax dollars are paying for their retirements.

I refuse to leave a critical project unfinished, and if they say that no OT or comp is allowed in the future, I would still not leave loose ends hanging.

That's the way it works here, in canada too. But Employment Standards ensures that you HAVE to have an averaging agreement signed by the employer and employee, which is to be updated and signed each year.
It is for people who work shifts where they are at work three days a week but for 16-20+ hrs each day.

"You can't complain to the Labor Board because my employer is State government and they run the Labor Board! "

YEah, that's why an independent, Employment standards Act needs to be written and enforced in the US as it is in Canada too. It scares the crap out of employers when they know they have to toe the line or pay up. Our ESA defends the employee from the employer, it seems that any similar laws in teh US are designed to protect the employer and allow them to abuse human/employee rights.

533,000 people lost their job in November in the US.

I personally would just be glad to keep my job than bitch about overtime.

Rikk,

Since your signature says that you are an IT Manager, I assume that you know and value a qualified and hardworking tech/admin/etc. when you see one. If said employee legitimately feels as though they are being mistreated, wouldn't it be more cost effective to do your best to resolve their grievances, monetarily or otherwise, rather than say, "Just be glad you have a job?"

We get time and a half comp time. This really comes in handy when I leave early for a kids ballgame,doctor's appt or leave early on a weekday. However, with the economy the way it is I am HAPPY that I work for the state. At this point, I work the OT.

It is interesting to watch many of the posts here.

As far as I know, slavery has been abolished for some time. None of you are required to work where you do. Also, any of you can find the rules yourselves. They are there. For all of your eyes to see.

So, instead of wasting the time and energy you do on complaining about your situation, why not take some of that energy and do something about your appalling conditions?

Update that resume. Look for a job with a decent employer who values their employees. Take some time to look up the laws.

You are responsible for you. If you let someone else be responsible, then you get what you get.

My post I think was taken the wrong way.

By no means do I expect to take advantage of my employees. However, by the same token, many should feel lucky for their job right now and if they don't, they should find another.

I have found that comp time is easier and both sides typically like better than pure $.

If a person is only doing tech support they get overtime. Other employees who may provide some tech support are titled Manager of Network Systems and Manager of Security. They have managerial responsibilities over systems and make decisions of a managerial nature. While they are salaried and not managing people specificially, we were advised by HR that they are in fact managers and therefore not subject to overtime. I am curious if anyone else has comments related to those kinds of positions.

Hey bgilmore, thanks for your comments.



It sounds like the positions you describe could be exempt as administrative positions. The DOL describes these positions as those that have some discretion and independence in how their duties are carried out, or have decision-making power that affects the business.



I want to reiterate though that in the US, actual job duties trump job titles. A position can be *called* Chief Executive Officer, but if that person spends a majority of their time installing and troubleshooting PCs, then that employee should be eligible for overtime.

In California the laws changed about 3-6 months ago. You can be salaried and still get over time. It has nothing to do with your title. The difference is whether over 50% of you time is spent running the company or making decisions having to do with the running of the company and not just doing assigned technical tasks. If your salaried and your just doing assinged tasks your entitled to overtime. Sounds screwy but my wife is HR and it's going to be a real nightmare for companies when the employees find out they've been cheated out of their overtime due to negligence or outright misrepresentation by management. The only way to be salaried and not be paid overtime as a tech/admin would be if your making over $85-90K and your not repairing but are programming, coding etc...

In the state of Pennsylvania, at least and I believe nationally as well, "Comp Time" is flat illegal as a substitute for overtime pay. Period.

Personally I would rather get the time back than pay. Time off is more important to me, and besided, if we don't want to use the time, we get it paid out at the end of the year.

...if HSB had even made a decent attempt to be fair about the situation written about in the redmond article, I would never have even thought to go to DOL. We, too, were "expected" to do more than the minimum hours as we were hired - and were told our raises depended on it! I prefer the time off as well, instead of the OT, but HSB made an attempt to offer neither. If I had enough room to tell you all about the cocamamey (sp?) plan they presented us with for providing after hours support to our new Korean office you guys would crap yourselves. Absolutely no effort or thought put into it....so ridiculous!

Nobody where I work gets anything but comp time for time over 40 hours a week. I personally would rather the the OT pay rather than comp time, but we don't have a choice. I take very little time off (3 vacation days taken in the last 2 years I think) so I really don't need MORE time off for working OT. I could use the money though.

While this is true, by calling the labour board you had better make sure you do not make any mistakes afterwards.
Your employer can't give you grief for calling, but they can look for any reason to let you go afterwards.

If you have to call the labour board, make sure you have another position elsewhere first and give your notice. Here, the labour board can go back six months when doing a review, with cause they can go further.
[ $2,000.00 cheque from one employer for overtime from having gone to labour board. ]

I personally wouldn't want to work with a company I had to do that with, they would find some way to get rid of you afterwards, and the negative attitude from the company would make for really terrible working conditions.

Thanks for adding your experience to the discussion, Jaqui. You're absolutely right that some employers might look to retaliate after being reported. If an employee has a problem with their employer, and feels that they have been treated wrongly, certainly they should obtain their own legal counsel. The rules on at-will employment and implied contracts vary in the US from state to state and from country to country. I am not a lawyer.



What rationale did the company you worked for have for denying your overtime compensation? If you don't mind, could you give us some detail on how the process of filing a grievance worked for you? I'm going to guess that there aren't many people on the site who have this kind of experience. Yet.



As a point of information, I believe that here in the US, the period eligible for reimbursement depends on the results of the Labor investigation. In the anecdotal cases presented in the source article the reimbursements covered about 2 years of back wages.

the British Columbia Labour Board.
It was against the Keg and Cleaver Restaurant Chain.

My official title was lead prep cook, my actual position was assistant kitchen manager. Since I was covering for call in sick and no-show cooks, I was usually working from 6 am until 2 am. [ yes, 20 hours ]
The lead prep was rated at 8 hours a day. They stopped paying me for the additional shifts.

I actually handed my notice in to leave, they did the last schedule up and I was schedules for a 12 day stretch. I walked out, with a photocopy of the schedule, and a copy of the current time sheets.

walked into the labour board offices and talkd with the receptionist, she handed me the forms. Filling them out took about an hour. [ lucky me, I had brought a years worth of cheque stubs with me, they came in handy. ]

Handed the completed forms in, talked with one of the investigators for a few minutes and left.

I heard absolutely nothing for three months.
Then I get a phone call one thursday afternoon, while dealing with a clerical error with Employment Insurance. Friday morning I went to the Labour board office and was handed a cheque for 2 grand in back pay.

case closed.

The finale:

Took the stub from that cheque to the E.I. office and spent 20 minutes working through two lineups to see the agent handling my claim, handed her the stub and told her where I had gotten it from. Monday morning I got 2 grand in back E.I. payments in the mail.

The employer was trying to screw me over for the E.I., the Labour Board's results screwed the employer over. :/

I heard from old co-workers the labour board found the problems with my payroll entries, and went through everyones, all the staff got back pay that had it coming to them.

If you have too go to the Labour Board, make sure you have as much documentation as you can get your hands on, it makes their task easier and will put you in a better light with them. [ The Labour Board may be working for the employee, but they are employers also. ]
This was way back in 1991, so the procedures may have changed even up here, and could be different for the local board of anyone needing to go there.

I had a position selling porn and adult "toys" with one local company. This company has the practice of firing their staff fairly frequently. The boss doesn't trust people, and has had that lack of trust vindicated more often than not. When I was fired, the papers were filled out to help me get E.I.
Which is normally denied if you are fired.

The rest of the people he fired got the same treatment. They all went to the labour board over the 12 hour shifts he uses. I stayed out of that. I took the position knowing his habits and practices, so I wasn't to shocked when it happened.
The labour board didn't do anything for those who complained about his scheduling practice. He had gotten official approval for the variance to avoid paying overtime.

Here, it isn't a policy that exempts anyone, it is a per case variance that must be applied for and approved, or any shift longer than 8 hours is overtime after 8.

My title is Helpdesk/desktop support. When the law changed about 2 years ago my company called me into HR and explained that they owed me for the time, OT, after hours on call etc... I pulled all of my after hours tickets from the ticketing system and handed the time spent over to my supervisor. After about 2 weeks I had a check for over 2 grand. They told me that since my job function involve touching hardware and after hours calls that I fell into this category.
I was also made aware of the fact that since I am in the salary non-exempt group that comp time would be illegal. I did some research and comp-time always comes up as a grey area. Some say it fine others say its illegal. Im happy with the OT pay the way it is.

Broadview Networks in Westchester County, NY was notorious for this. I ended up leaving them due to the fact that they expected me to work my 9-6 workday, and then support users (on a rotation) from 6-6am. They felt that if it was done in rotation, every other week, then it was alright to do it and they could get away with it. I have had my own IT business ever since leaving. I am glad I left!

My company does not pay OT for us doing DT support. instead, the give us comp-time in the form of....you ready for this...

1 hr of comp time for ever 1 hr worked OVER 52 hours in any given week.

WTF....is this legal at all? Im in Houston, TX.
~DS

middmann in Texas if you work more than 40 hours then you get overtime period. Oh by the way this federal law and states cannot subtract anything from federal law and can add to it. If you read them closely a lot of the paragraphs refer to federal law anyway.

shawn, it's great to hear that your company stepped up and did the right thing.



In my experience, I've been offered comp time as a good faith gesture when I was otherwise considered exempt from OT. I think a lot of employers do that.

DOL told me that any after hours call (or hardware work) with a minimum length of 15 minutes requires compensation.

I'm glad that my efforts in securing Help Desk techs proper compensation and prevention of abuse seems "anecdotal" to you sir. Yes, this article is about my particular experience - John-Paul Myszczenko (calgon7_2000@yahoo.com) - and YES the statute of limitations IS 2 years as set forth by the FEDERAL department of labor.

Thanks for making your experience available. It's certainly valuable. There's a lot of misconceptions about OT eligibility on the part of employees *and* managers.

All our management do is give us time off in Lieu! That is great if you don't have many holidays left but it doesn't help me pay the bills.!

My title is Network administrator, however my job duties are extremely broad even including operational manament duties. Would I make the cut as deserving OT compensation

I just had a job discussion for a Tape Library Manager, mainframes and servers, stacking and inventory of tapes, management of changers and preparing for off-site delivery. Fairly complex and high level stuff in a singular area of IT support.

Base pay? Ready?
$16 an hour - kiddie pay.

I laughed at this and advised the head hunter so.

And if they get an incompetant at that rate, and then they need someday those data tapes for restoration ... then that lousy pay grade may prove it self being very very expensive indeed.

Not to be arrogant or disrespectful, but preparing tapes is not "high level or complex". Fixing a major server crash, now that is complex. Stacking tapes, no...