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    <title><![CDATA[Discussion on Battling recruiters and the salary issue ]]></title>
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        <title><![CDATA[&quot;Summa *** laude&quot;?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3336262]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Is there a dirty-word filter on the TechRepublic boards so dumb that it would prevent posting the above Latin phrase without the asterkisks?If so, pretty embarrassing on a tech-oriented site.  Will it also prevent me from posting about &quot;keeping abr**st of developments in my field&quot;?  &quot;The manager's name was Richard, but he asked me on the first day to call me D**k&quot;?  &quot;I thought my old boss was bad enough, but this new guy made him look like a p***ycat.&quot;  Etc., etc.]]></description>
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        <dc:creator><![CDATA[AlexPC]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 10:39:05 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[In developing countries]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3318070]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Its such a big irony when you people discuss salary matters in your developing countries.In Africa, Kenya where is am,employers try to minimise as much as possible the pay they make from their employee's , its like they try to rip them off.And mark you it works, since many people arent employed, the employers manage to get away with it.Take me as an example, a graduate in IT with CCNA qualifications , earning a salary of around $187 per month.The money cant even be enough to pay my bills, and i have to do it, coz am better of here earning miserable peanuts than staying at home.That if i quit this work, then someone else else will come and do it for the same pay and maybe with a lesser pay.And thats what the employer wants to reduce his &quot;expenses&quot; as he tries to make use of out blood.Africa , survival for the fittest applies.Just like someone said that the wheels of capitalim are oiled by the blood of workers.Either way, i know its very important for everyone to what she/he wants and demand it.Wow!But what i know is]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3318070]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[pope-2009]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 01:57:15 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[RE: Battling recruiters and the salary issue]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3220664]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[&quot;Game of Chicken&quot;? I prefer Blind Man's Bluff or Liar's Poker. Whoever affixes the watershed and arbitrary numeric value to the job in question first, loses. The current location of the supply and demand pendulum dictates which side has the advantage. In this job market, it's the recruiters and they know it. Ten years ago, it was the job seekers, and we knew it.The problem compounds when you know damn good and well that your job-seeking cohort doesn't abide by your own moral compass. Where I punt the salary question right back to the recruiter, the next interviewee, who may be in more dire straits than I, spews a number that he/she thinks may be just what the recruiter wants to hear. The sad fact is that no number is the right one. And as I said, you just lost the game.I believe it is my karmic obligation to abide by my sense of fairness. It is uncomfortable for me knowing that, in this economic climate, the words, &quot;salary commensurate with my experience&quot; excludes me from many positions. But I take heart knowing that I don't want to work for an organization that treats potential employees like items in the Wal-mart bargain bin. If they don't value you now, do you really think that will change if you get hired?But the pendulum always swings back...always.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3220664]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[mjstelly]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:27:34 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[An honest reply from an honest Recruiter]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3203730]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[As a recruiter, I am always amazed by the paranoia the general public feels against members of my profession.I can tell you quite honestly that there is no ulterior motive behind the question of salary.  It is simply a device for us to determine whether or not you are right for the position.  Different companies have different titles for their positions and it is not always clear what salary a person is expecting from their resume.  We are also busy people, like you, who don't have time to do lengthy evaluations of your background.  It is much easier and faster for us to ask you what salary you expect.That way we can either continue the discussion, or save us both time and energy by relating that the position is not right for you.My guess is that this is the real reason most people do not want to talk about salary at the beginning of the job discussion: they are afraid that their salary demands will put them out of the running.  But, in fact, are you really going to accept a job at much less than you now make?  Or do you think you can talk yourself into a job that is way above your current salary?  My advice to people who are seriously looking for new employment is to expect the question and answer it honestly. Don't try to con the recruiter into going further without this crucial piece of information.Your job search will benefit.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3203730]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[karen_fts]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:44:29 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Doesn't work if you're not on W2]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3040049]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[with the current employer, or if you subcontract (the company you control issues your W2, in which case the W2 statement might show substantially lower numbers)]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3040049]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[upuaut_z]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:44:30 -0700</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Know thy self yes.  Committing Job Sucide is nother]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3030255]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[That is very nasty attitude to have.  Yes we know ourself.  We know what we want in life. However in our competive enviroment of someone wanting your job.  Revealing what your salary is could mean the compitetion could undercut our current position.  I think recruiters need to be more considerate of the employee that already has a position and is just looking to make thier own carrer better.  Salary information is a sensitive subject.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3030255]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[russell.rittenhouse@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 06:35:40 -0700</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[You are so right on...Read &quot;Perm verse contract&quot;]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3029705]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Thanks &quot;hmmmmm!&quot; This is perfect. You hit the nail on the head. I'm a tech Headhunter and have worked with software and IT professionals since 1995. There are some great talented tech professionals out there, but unfortunately the world has handed them opportunity (although tough at times) on a silver platter. The abundance of opportunities and high pay at some point clouds the mind, &quot;I am IT and invaluable.&quot; Again not to everyone, but many. On Recruiters - There are a lot of BAD recruiters out there that make it hard for the rest of us. The industry loses respect; this creates a lack of trust and inability to share info. It really stops us from doing our jobs. No recruiter worth value should ask about salary up front, but they shouldn't get off the phone without a salary range that the candidate is comfortable with.  It's the nature of the business to share this data. You'll have to do it at some point. If you don't trust the recruiter then don't work with them. I look at it this way. Working with a recruiter is like working with a doctor. You need to let him/her in on who you are, trust, to really get the best service. This issue is connecting with the right one. Ask questions, get to know them; how long have they been in the business?, what type of searches do they focus on?, who have they worked with?, Who are some of their candidates? Also, look them up on LinkedIn - they should all have a profile. What are people saying about them? ]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3029705]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[tavishudson@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 09:24:44 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[RE: Know thy self]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3029110]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Couldn't agree more.  Nobody cares about your career or salary more than you.  Know what you're worth and hold out for jobs that increase your salary and/or future earning potential (by gaining good experience).  It doesn't take that much research to figure out what your skills are worth and it's your only defense from being underpaid.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3029110]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[rrusson]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:03:58 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[That loud &quot;whoosh&quot; you heard]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3024293]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[was my point escaping you.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3024293]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[NickNielsen]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:08:57 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[ouitsource?]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3024040]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Care to discuss MS and their 5K layoff and they are keeping the lower wage HIA's and asking for more. Besides when massive lay offs aas going on now happens.. more looking for work, supply and demand dictates wages, as like it or not, labor is a commodity.. When the unions were effective they protected it, but now most do not have a clue about what unions did or can do.. so the worker is at mercy of what the company will pay.. as they can always find someone to fill the job within the wages they offer. IT employees should look back to about the 1980's many of us &quot;Old guys&quot; remember. Then massive shifts to off shore started up.. and employees told &quot;not to worry everyone will be trained in hi tech and IT etc, and most will not even have to go to office to work&quot;  The real result was USA jobs shipped out, mostly labeled as &quot;Dirty ole MFG jobs&quot;, even when some required education and work standards that would stun most &quot;clean office workers&quot; types. So they left, and are leaving at astounding levels, and any that return are going to low wages southern states, and union busting is wide open, to shut down that thorn in business side for once and for all.  If IT types would just read a bit of business history they would see same thing going on now about IT and such jobs. The better the communications, the better your chances of being outsourced or HIA replacement, and often the firm gets a tax break for doing it. Read a bit of history and as old saying goes, &quot;best not ask for whom the outsource offshore bell tolls, as well it just might be a lot of IT workers in USA. and Wall St loves it..]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3024040]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[hmmmmm!]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:59:06 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[by pass recruiter, dumb]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3023998]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[News flash, if a recruiter gets you hired, intor's you to company or even has had an interview with you about the company. and you go around them with that childish game.. you wil probably be not hired and if you are, and the recruiter finds out, the company pays anyway as it is very serious breach of contract by the company to pull such stunts, I would strongly suggest anyone whom even tries such stuff, cancel that rhought now. The company budgeted for the recruiter AND your salary. NO company wants to play that game as would be hauled itno court, more so to fill a job, that they will have to probably end up paying a lot more then they would have in first place. Best take a bit of contract law before you suggest such foolishness.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3023998]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[hmmmmm!]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:40:39 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[wages and hirings]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3023993]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[You just do not get it, the recruiter has NO say in wages, the truth is the more you get the more they get...unless a in house type and then they are driven by what HR says is wages.  The reason for asking wages and or expected wages, more so as most recruiters post a range, is simple enough. They do not want to waste their timne with someone that would NOT be hired at what they value self.. If you are close to what is being offered you might get interview, that depends on company, but two things to never hide when seeking per jobs, education and wages.. as when the candidates shut up about details there, HR worries about truths. If you cannot get range for job, then look up real ranges for that job.. and post it if they demand a wage. I would never post current dollars anywhere, but be prepared to reveal it real early in the process. If you say &quot;Well I am 250% qualified for the job, even &quot;over qualified so I should get more&quot;, no one hires and pays for that sort of thing. They hire to fill a defined job. You might keep in mind, you get the interview on what you did, you get hired for what they want you to do, and are interviewed and paid accordingly, and you are always replaceable..unless you own the place.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3023993]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[hmmmmm!]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 07:34:43 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Know thy enemy]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3023010]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[I know that HR and recruiters have a use.  What it is I have no idea.  To be quite frank the only reason for a recruiter to be unwilling to share the companies salary requirements, is a tacit attempt to defraud a potential employee, and if they are going to take advantage of you before you even start do you really want to work for them in the first place?  Imagine what they?re going to do to you when finances get a little tight.  They know approximately what they are willing to pay long before you ever show up looking interested.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3023010]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[cookster_60]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:20:58 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Bypass the recruiter @ heiko]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3022258]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Usually companies have to pay the recruiter a percentage. Say a month of your salary in advance. During the interview, negotiate with the interviewer and also drop the point very casually about bypassing the recruiter.Tell them the money they pay the recruiter can be covered by the excess they pay you. After all, All is fair in love, war &amp; 'business in a downtime'.Any recruiter with sense and intelligence will see that you are a person who is a gogetter.Remember Darwin - Survival of the fittest. MAN is definitly not the fittest, but man is cleverer. NO SHAME  NO GAIN!!!]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3022258]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[vishnoo.rath@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:46:47 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Web 2.0 to the rescue]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3022237]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[while not applicable to US / UK etc, the same problem has reached critical dimensions here in India.So some bright people have come up withwww.jobeehive.comNB: I am not associated with the above mentioned company]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3022237]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[vishnoo.rath@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:29:57 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Stringent Laws needed...]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3022232]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Dear Mr Houghton,   Ironic enough as it may seem, the US H1 Visa fails miserably because it includes no entry criteria in terms of technology. I am an Indian with experience since 1994 - before Y2K - and have seen the exponential skill decline in people who work in IT industry.Today the US IT Job sector is filled with un-qualified and CORPORATE sponsored H1B personnel, who are paid the bare minimum in wages / salary. The bulk of this is from India. The truth however bitter is the truth after all.For the US IT market to really become free and competitive, the country needs laws to :i. Place restrictions on CORPORATE sponsored H1B visas. In fact deny H1B to non US CORPORATES and supply only to individualsii. Like TOEFL for immigrants, place a entry test for the foreign candidate to clear so as to qualify for even applying for a post.I urge true US citizens to approach their law makers and push for such a law that is based on MERIT - fair enough for immigrant workers - and one that will protect local jobs too.There is no point in us techies fighting over the same jobs, when CORPORATES exploit loopholes.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3022232]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[vishnoo.rath@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:25:39 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[The double line on an interstate]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3022206]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Okay. What the title meant was the mean or median path. We all know that the recruiter earns their bread butter and beef by getting the most qualified personnel at the cheapest rates. What would work is a diplomatic answer like, &quot;I am open to suggestions that are not below par industry standards&quot;. This really puts them in a fix.The reason that the recruiter called you in the first place is that they know with your experience you are a right choice. But they need to show their value as a recruiter too, right?Now the first question would make you look compliant and willing to bend over backwards. This is the first step in this pyschological warfare that you would play over the next few weeks. Once he / she forwards your resume to the company , BEFORE the technical rounds start, ask the person who is taking the interview about the standard salary - government mimimal levels in the areas - for the post. Most people would oblige and give you a range. They might then ask what you expect. Spell out reasonable rates considering the cost of living in that area and the other fringe benefits that you currently get or expect.If it is a support job involving 60% travel, things such as Boarding bills, gas bills, phone charges, WiFi charges and travel allowance need to be discussed. Standard issues are your 401K and Dental insurance. Based on US tax laws, you also need to see what tax sops are available to married personnel and negotiate accordingly. I hope I have been able to help. God Bless - Whoever is your God ]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3022206]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[vishnoo.rath@...]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:06:33 -0800</pubDate>
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    <item>
        <title><![CDATA[Massive influxes of numpties]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3019975]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[make me more valuable. You need to damn good to clear up after those guys, at a reasonable cost. It's not usually intellectually rewarding, it pays well though.There are always numpties about, more numpties = more demand = more pay.It's not my fault businesses keep making that particular mistake.So the answer is , don't be a numpty.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3019975]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Hopkinson]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:25:42 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[Not all jobs can be outsourced overseas]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3019927]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[WE have a economy bordering on or perhaps in a &quot;Great Depression&quot;, so time for a reality check, as if any job in USA can be easily outsourced offshore it is IT.Somebody still needs to be on site to do the manual labor.  If you think otherwise, good luck with that 10,000-mile-long screwdriver.]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3019927]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[NickNielsen]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:40:09 -0800</pubDate>
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        <title><![CDATA[employee  value]]></title>
        <link><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3019547]]></link>
        <description><![CDATA[Most all looking for work miss the real point, they are worth exactly what a company will pay, nor more, as employment, while it may damage some ego's is totally market driven. What most must understand in the changing new mess, companies are cutting back, and NO firm is going to hire in someone making more then those in same job, as that sets up a ticking bomb. To many out there seem to think they are worth much more then offered, some refused to state wages or cop an attitude about such things. They simply are not going ot get hired by reputable firms, for no other reason then their attitude, no matter how good, that attitude is disruptive and often opens up questions about what else are they silent about. Just the lies on education and duties in resumes is terrible, and now they won't discuss wages. Same with range, no one is gooing to hire someone in at 25-50% more them they were making before in same job, unless some really odd things happened. NO ONE should EVER pay a fee to be hired, contract or perm. Note on contract when you think the shop is getting to much, alos compute the SS, unemployment and all the other stuff taken out, plus overhead to run the paper. NOT saying all shops or recruiters are 100% honest, there are a lot of franchise type outfits out there the just collect resumes, shotgun them to employers, via word match against job openings, and beware of that as they just might send yours to your current employer which might not be great career enhancer. Boils down to if employee is so great for the job, worth so much more then offers and will not 150% say why, and prove it, then they are either very overqualified and should not be hired for job, or are going to be a constant disruptive thorn in company flows from day one and not be hired.   THE JOB HUNTER is responsible for preparation on job hunt, from company to wages to real self evaluation, and must remember they are not invaluable. to test that theory suggest they go down to local pond with bucket, bail out 5 gals of water and note the whole they left in lake.. WE have a economy bordering on or perhaps in a &quot;Great Depression&quot;, so time for a reality check, as if any job in USA can be easily outsourced offshore it is IT... and as good or better help can be had for a lot less then USA wages, and lots of code cutter felt that sting. . and of course congress gave tax breask for such. Sadly were it not such a rip off to workers, nearly amusing when your read of laid off workers &quot;Being retrained in computers&quot;.. Many are going to find the old days of &quot;I am great pay me accordingly&quot; gone! As they really were not!]]></description>
        <guid><![CDATA[http://www.techrepublic.com/forum/discussions/102-300874-3019547]]></guid>
        <dc:creator><![CDATA[hmmmmm!]]></dc:creator>
        <pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 07:05:53 -0800</pubDate>
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