Discussion on:

Backing up Users

In regards to the original blog piece:

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/helpdesk/?p=390

How about you? If you don't host your own mail server, do you backup a user's client e-mail files? And if so, how do you do it? Any and all comments are welcome in the ensuing discussion.

We also dont host emails in our company so we have to backup our own .PST ourselves in some networks drive or shared folders once a month.
One time I export .pst file to a shared folder and it cost me 1.5gb space.

There is a nice and handy solution out there :

Combine Outlook Archives (.pst) with the free Outlook-Add-in for backing up personal folder file sand you have a documented and working solution out-of-the-box.

"This is what Microsoft says : Backing up your Microsoft Outlook information is quicker and easier with the Personal Folders Backup feature. Personal Folders Backup creates backup copies of your .PST files at regular intervals, in Outlook 2002 and later versions, making it easy to keep all of your Outlook folders safely backed up."

The Add-In is found here : http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=8b081f3a-b7d0-4b16-b8af-5a6322f4fd01

Nevertheless,you have to develop a rocksolid backup strategy for your filerserver.

Even in small environments, a simple NAS storing files and backups makes sense.Add an external DVD burner and you are prepared.

Use gigabit-equipment,its worth the investment.

The Outlook Backup Addin is an excellent tool and I use it often for client's home computers. But on a corporate network, it isn't ideal because it actually asks the user whether to backup. So, the user can ignore the option to backup the file and this can cause problems.

for most SMB this is a no brainer.
I.T. policy should be:
all files related in any way, shape, or form..
to company business (likely includes email !)
-reside on file server.
File server is religiously backed up.
-thus, Outlook PST's are backed up.
Setting path to PST's located on server is a no brainer.
Keeping any valuable company resources / intellectual property on user's workstations is negligent imho.
www.davidhartley.com

So, we have small offices in 13 different cities. Only two have servers, and we have the PFBackup tool direct the PST backup to the server for them. Other individuals are on their own. The PFBackup goes to their My Docs, and we tell them how to back up My Docs to an external drive or free online storage place (we are a poor non-profit). All "real" company data (besides individual documents and the PSTs) are on various ASP applications. I don't see how we can automate PST or any other backups when people are on laptops and not plugged in at any certain times. Any thoughts?

MS does not support opening Outlook PST files over a LAN:
http://support.microsoft.com/Default.aspx?id=297019

are you going to every client and adding this to their scheduled tasks? how would you write this with "JoeR" replaced with current logged on user. Something like \systemroot\documents and settings\%%Logged_on_User%%\local settings\application data\ ... thank you for any insight you may have... this would be killer in group policy and thanks for the article.

Yes, I did change the path on all user's computers, but my office is so small (less than 24) that it didn't take a lot of time, and I did it at a time when I was performing some regular maintenance on their computers anyway.

I was hoping someone would share some ideas on how to do the same thing using group policies, but that's not really my forte'.

this page has a list of xp environment variables that you can plug into your script.

http://vlaurie.com/computers2/Articles/environment.htm

The one that applies to your script would be %%USERPROFILE%% and you can actually just throw your script into the logoff script section of a group policy. you will then link it to the necessary OU. Group Policy will save you a lot of time, especially when you move to a different company.

and i used xcopy in your script because xcopy is built into xp and robocopy is not. You can even take this script to the next job and just change the destination.

you supposed to substitute %USERNAME% for the username directory, NOT %USERPROFILE%.

I've used this tool in small network environments (offices without an active directory server) It's from microsoft and works well. I schedule backups for all the clients to a network drive. Great tool!

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/outlook/HA010875321033.aspx

hi all,
If we have a small office that outsource it's Email services, we use outlook Archive method, i think it's more convenient.

Users are responsible for their data - period. If they ask, I will show them how to back it up, but they are on their own.

to an exent, you are right, to another extent, you are wrong. when it comes to backing up documents, yes, users should back up their own documents because we do not know which ones are important. but on the other hand, when it comes to their pst files, they wouldnt have a clue where to start or where to find it or why it wont copy. As IT professions, it is our job to help our users work as smoothly as possible.

People should learn how to properly use anything they depend on. It would take less than 5 minutes on the MS website or even Google to find out how to backup a PST file. I think it's even in the Outlook help.

Now understand, I'm talking about corporate type people here. Private citizen type people, like the members of my church who get free support are different. I hold their hands as much as possible.

I can't agree - I support users first, equipment second. My job is to help them help themselves, and we are dealing with corporate data here. But let's let that long-standing argument drop for now.

My users need more than just PST files backed up. I wrote a batch file that pretty much duplicates all a user would care about to a mapped drive letter B: on a shared network drive:

@Echo off
cls
Echo Doug's data backup helper
Echo (c)2001 XYZ Corporation
Echo .
Echo .
Echo .
Echo This program will copy your data files
Echo from the notebook to your personal data folder on (yourserver)
Echo .
Echo Be sure all programs are closed and Outlook is not running, then
pause
cls
Echo Working...please be patient...
Echo .
xcopy "C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents\*.*" "B:\Data Backup\My Documents\" /s /e /v /c /h /k /d /r /y /i > "B:\Data Backup\xcopy.log"
Echo all of the "My Documents" folder has finished copying...
Echo .
xcopy "C:\Documents and Settings\username\Desktop\*.*" "B:\Data Backup\Desktop\" /s /e /v /c /h /k /d /r /y /i >> "B:\Data Backup\xcopy.log"
Echo all of the files on your Windows Desktop have finished copying...
Echo .
xcopy "C:\Documents and Settings\username\Favorites\*.*" "B:\Data Backup\Favorites\" /s /e /v /c /h /k /d /r /y /i >> "B:\Data Backup\xcopy.log"
Echo all Internet Explorer Favorites have finished copying...
Echo .
Echo .
Echo All done!
Echo .
Echo .
pause

Really simple, really fast - even writes a log file. Due to the nature of PST files changing time, date and size, these invariably get scooped up by the batch file's /I parameter, so speed is limited by how active the user's email is.

My users know to run this on-demand tool from the desktop before they jump a plane or if something odd is occurring with their computer.

YMMV,
Doug

As the last guy said, this is corporate data, not their personal emails. And when you are in a field where it's easy to be the scapegoat, it's better to say 'i'm two steps ahead of you, here's your backup', rather than 'it's not my job.'

As for batching opposed to using a premade tool, the positives include learning to script and seeing how far you can take it and customizing it to your specific application. Whereas a tool you get from the internet might not have a domain in mind and not have a management console. When it comes to deploying applications or stuff like copying emails, scripting is the best way to go.

when they start screaming at you if it doesn't work and they lose data?

There is no excuse for being lazy and/or computer illiterate these days.

.. nor is there any value in, nor excuse for hiding your head in a hole in the ground.
People ARE computer illiterate.
Computer uber-literacy is YOUR JOB.
(be thankful ?)
-but at any rate be REAL:
and take your responsibility seriously instead of getting some kind of attitude which you (very wrongly) feel justifies your negligence.
There is only one reasonable way for SMB (and even very smallbiz, who could use Windows home server, or cheap linux box, or whatEVER as a company file server)
I.T. policy: all company data (obviously includes email !) resides on company server.
End of story.
If server isn't backed up, don't try to blame it on lazy / illiterate users
www.davidhartley.com

"I.T. policy: all company data ... resides on company server"

That is exactly what I am talking about.

So is there a specific reason that you're not using Group Policy to run this as a logoff script?
Take the whole thing out of the users hands - other than having to shut down or restart every once in awhile.
I'd like to implement something like this myself.
Thanks. TC

Although it could be done as a log off script, I wouldn't recommend it because it would take a very long time. If the PST file was 1GB, it would have to copy the entire file back and so the user would have to wait while this file is copied if the user is simply rebooting and not just logging/shutting down for the day. By scheduling it late at night, you don't have to worry about the amount of time it takes to copy and users waiting on this. So, I wouldn't recommend copying a PST file in a logoff script.

Unless the PST's have been moved from their default location.

C:\documents and settings\%USERNAME%\local settings\application data\microsoft\...

location is different for Outlook and Outlook express.

Bill

One of the primary jobs of IT is to ensure the network runs smoothly and that corporate data is secure. In my opinion it is the responsibility of IT to ensure that files on any company computer are safe and backed up. Emails fall in to the same realm. This is company property and you should be making sure that company property is kept safe in case originals are lost due to hardware failure or deleted with malicious or accidental intent by a user.

store the PST's on the SERVER (d'OH ...)
-all company data should be stored on server.
NONE should be stored on workstation.
How easy is that ?
www.davidhartley.com

I'm not talking about company data! All company data is stored on servers. I'm talking about user data that they have been told to backup themselves.

If it is not company data what is it doing on a company computer? Why should IT be responsible for personal files? If it gets lost it is the user's issue. If your boss, or their boss, feels it should be your responsibility to secure their personal data then you probably have bigger problems than backing up personal data.

We don't have an e-mail server and use Outlook as the e-mail client on each user's desktop computer. We consider e-mail to be an integral part of doing business and treat it as we would any other important data. I have created an Outlook directory on each user's network Home Directory drive and placed their Outlook PST file in this directory rather than on their local hard drive. Even if their local hard drive fails, they will only lose e-mails that were sent\received since the prior night's server backup.

We have the same policy here with the pst's stored on a NAS drive, however when someone decides to pull a network cable to plug a laptop into, not realising the PC is on (screen gone to standby), the pst file cannot be accessed again until the NAS drive (Linux based) is restarted. Meaning that I have to remote in at night to do this....gggrrr.

I will proabbly implement a script run by a batch file and educate the users how to backup their pst files theirselves, and also implement it into their IT Policy so that the owness is on them.

that jives with any sort of sensible / responsible I.T. policy..
As the OP stated, email done by company employees on company time (ideally related to company business
..is company property, thus it is secured on company server.
No brainer.
re: "what about network interruption"
If you can't keep a LAN running smoothly, get a job selling shoes !
If you're impacted by too much LAN traffic, read a book about subnetting.
Really...
this is such a non-question.
www.davidhartley.com

Do the procedures you provide work in Outlook Express too? When I back up, I back up the entire C:/ drive to another hard drive. Does that "capture" email files too? I ask because I've never had to restore so can't tell if everything was captured to begin with. Thanks.

but that sounds like a lot of unnecessary backup. Is it incremental?

OE email store is in C:\ Documents and Settings\"username"\application data\identities\

Address book is in C:\ Documents and Settings\"username"\application data\microsoft\address book

Possibly in \identities\ ? Not sure of the possibilities any more.

We are a small company running SBS 2003.
So we have our own exchange server.
The problem with backing up is that we use the bundled Microsoft backup utility which will not back up open files (it won't even try them again later.)
So I set up each of my users with a data (pst) file to save their sorted emails to. I do a full server backup every night so the pst files do get backed up.

Of course the last time I had to do a rebuild (thank you Microsoft for a patch that bricked my server!) I found out that most of them never bothered to move their email to the data folders as I showed them and REPEATEDLY reminded them to.
So trusting users to do even simple tasks is a bad idea.

Just a friendly suggestion:
Since you have an Exchange server, your best bet would be to let the users store everything in Exchange and avoid PST files altogether. This way you can backup Exchange and have all of the data in one go.

The back up application that comes as part of SBS2003 will not backup open files and the exchange database is always active.

..is junk.
Get a real server backup solution, and obviously, if you're using MS Exchange .. do not use PST files.
www.davidhartley.com

I'd love to get a real solution in here.
Unfortunately the boss won't spend money on software until there's a real problem.
(It took 4 years to get anti-virus and another 5 to get anti-spam!)
His arguments go like this: "It's working good enough." "We haven't had a problem yet." and (my favorite) "Do you know how much beer I can buy with that!"

He considers preventive maintenance a waste of money unless it is on equipment (computer hardware doesn't count as equipment). Whenever I tried to push the issue he likes to tell me that I don't understand I'm just overhead and don't contribute anything to the product. (which I always find somewhat amusing as I am the only draftsman in the company and before a customer can even place an order they need a drawing fom me!)

Sounds like most companies that I've been employed at...

The exchange backup is handled differently than files. When exchange is installed on server 2003 it also upgrades ntbackup so that it can backup the email system. I am 99% certain that SBS is also capable of this as well. IT WILL NOT BACK THE FILES UP DIRECTLY. These will show as failed. Rather under the backup utility you should have a location called "Microsoft Exchange Server". Expanding that will list information stores which can be checked and backed up.

This is very similar to backing up the system state and if you are not doing that then I strongly recommend it.

Edit: Meant to post this one level up. Also, I use ntbackup on several servers including an exchange server and it works fine. It requires more management and has very little logging, but I consider it a pretty good free product. I have restored backups to dissimilar hardware in a test environment and once I had the process down it was fairly straight forward and worked fine (disaster recovery scenario).

Bill

I always check it but I don't trust it.
(This could be left over from my first experience when we were running Server NT4)

My last formal training occured a VERY long time ago and I may be behind on how some of the software has improved.

2GB for Exchange Mail Boxes (2003)
Persoanl of 10 GB.
It sounds like a lot but not if there are large attachemnts and you have like five years of emails that have to be kept. Also the default is on the C: drive I agree PST suck.

I wish I could back up users, and restore them to a point at which they were functioning correctly.