Re: the original piece:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/helpdesk/?p=1045
If Linux ever became a popular desktop product, would it solve more problems for support pros or, perhaps, cause more?
Considering as much, there are really two questions I'm exploring. The first is whether or not Linux will ever be a popular and significant desktop product? The other is this; do most support pros even want it to become one?
Take the polls and share your thoughts.
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Will Linux will ever be a popular and significant desktop product?
I really don't think it will. I don't care if I get flamed for the opinion, but from my experience people in general: download a program double click it and it goes, click ok a couple time and they have their wonderfull new software... With another toolbar. I don't think people (in general) would understand that you need an emulator to run a .exe... and what happens if it doesnt work? God forbid... Would they know how to search for an equal piece of software? And when they find it are they going to know the difference between a .src, .tar, .RPM package? Plus, what happens when their kid goes in and plays with the resolution, and now they are stuck at a CLI prompt? Would they be able to get the GUI back? And lets not talk about the differences between init 0 - init 6, also ctrl+alt+1 - ctrl+alt+7 and why they are important. There are so many other reasons why I dont think the general population would convert to Linux... On top of, have they ever heard of it?
Would I support it?
Depends on what Distro they were running. I would say it would be "best efforts" support, and my per hour rate would go up.
I really don't think it will. I don't care if I get flamed for the opinion, but from my experience people in general: download a program double click it and it goes, click ok a couple time and they have their wonderfull new software... With another toolbar. I don't think people (in general) would understand that you need an emulator to run a .exe... and what happens if it doesnt work? God forbid... Would they know how to search for an equal piece of software? And when they find it are they going to know the difference between a .src, .tar, .RPM package? Plus, what happens when their kid goes in and plays with the resolution, and now they are stuck at a CLI prompt? Would they be able to get the GUI back? And lets not talk about the differences between init 0 - init 6, also ctrl+alt+1 - ctrl+alt+7 and why they are important. There are so many other reasons why I dont think the general population would convert to Linux... On top of, have they ever heard of it?
Would I support it?
Depends on what Distro they were running. I would say it would be "best efforts" support, and my per hour rate would go up.
..... I don't think it will either. If it does, I'll sure support it, but I don't think it'll happen.
P.S. If we get flamed for saying as much, I don't know about you, but my skin is made of asbestos!
P.S. If we get flamed for saying as much, I don't know about you, but my skin is made of asbestos!
So you need flame proof underwear before you say anything around here.......
Well not really after all if you don't want any children it doesn't really matter. Though you may end up frustrated. 
But in reality if you justify your reasoning it helps.
Col
But in reality if you justify your reasoning it helps.
Col
...especially considering that there are now much more user-friendly distros like Ubuntu out there (which I use as a dual boot on both of my laptops), and they're going to just keep on getting better. Even though I'm only a student right now, it would seem to me that if it were to become more popular that IT Professionals' job difficulty would remain more or less the same. This is because though the accessability of source code makes it much easier to understand how each component functions, such information is haphazardly scattered around the internet... versus having a single main knowledge base to refer to. On the business side of the equation, I think that many institutions would just LOVE the chance to drop Microsoft and their ridiculous royalties, especially with the overall state of the economy... but this is all just my own idle speculation anyway!
Linux isn't windows! Only root can make changes to the system. But, the IT supporter would actually have to learn something, and would probably be able to make more money. I run Linux, exclusively, and my wife, grandkids, and kids have no problem. They enjoy the increased speed of operation and the simplicity.
Our company tightly controls what apps get installed on the PC, and what few things an enduser can do. This makes Linux an acceptable candidate for us. The Technicians are already well versed in Linux, and its just a matter of time that we'll have to leave XP.
Can't find a way to delete the comment. But this one is as well put in the wrong place.
The great things about Linux is it's small, scalable and free. These strengths lend it to specific application rather than general use. For instance, Linux could be used to run sophisticated vending machines with credit card processing, engine management for automobiles, internet servers, etc.
What happens to Linux when you try to make it a desktop OS? You get bloat. The Linux kernel is becoming more Windows-like, by necessity, the more it tries to gain the desktop market. In the mean time, Windows is trying to slim down and challenge Linux in the scalable arena. Server 2008 can run without the GUI in a command line mode that keeps its footprint small - perfect for a print server, network management or other specific task-oriented roles that Linux currently excels at.
I'm not saying Linux can't compete with Windows on the desktop, only that to compete it must so drastically change that it becomes something different than it was. Linux has a wide open market available to it, its just not the desktop market.
What happens to Linux when you try to make it a desktop OS? You get bloat. The Linux kernel is becoming more Windows-like, by necessity, the more it tries to gain the desktop market. In the mean time, Windows is trying to slim down and challenge Linux in the scalable arena. Server 2008 can run without the GUI in a command line mode that keeps its footprint small - perfect for a print server, network management or other specific task-oriented roles that Linux currently excels at.
I'm not saying Linux can't compete with Windows on the desktop, only that to compete it must so drastically change that it becomes something different than it was. Linux has a wide open market available to it, its just not the desktop market.
I think seeing Linux as a popular desktop product depends on what part of the world you live in despite the terms of Global economy being used here in the USA. I still see Linux as a product used more by tech savvy persons than average users.
Most schools and business either use a Windows GUI, Apple GUI or terminal emulation. There might be Linux on the back end but I haven't come across any non-tech employees that are familiar with KDE or Gnome desktops.
When businesses or schools make the switch to a Linux desktop model, then more average users will make the switch to buying a Linux desktop. Most users see switching something they are comfortable with as a risk.
I am not a Microsoft fan boy and recommend that users do their own pros and cons list before purchasing hardware and software. I would say the majority of our employees purchase Dell pc's with Windows XP if possible because that what is run in our office. Some have Vista only because there was no choice. Most users did not move to Office 2007 because of a steep learning curve.
One of my favorite saying is "Perception is reality". Even if there is a better product out there possibly Linux, the majority of potential users in the USA are not using it.
Most schools and business either use a Windows GUI, Apple GUI or terminal emulation. There might be Linux on the back end but I haven't come across any non-tech employees that are familiar with KDE or Gnome desktops.
When businesses or schools make the switch to a Linux desktop model, then more average users will make the switch to buying a Linux desktop. Most users see switching something they are comfortable with as a risk.
I am not a Microsoft fan boy and recommend that users do their own pros and cons list before purchasing hardware and software. I would say the majority of our employees purchase Dell pc's with Windows XP if possible because that what is run in our office. Some have Vista only because there was no choice. Most users did not move to Office 2007 because of a steep learning curve.
One of my favorite saying is "Perception is reality". Even if there is a better product out there possibly Linux, the majority of potential users in the USA are not using it.
First, let me preface with this: I like Linux. I've been using Ubuntu for a couple of years now and I've tried many of the numerous other flavors of Linux over the years, and Debian(-based) works best for me. It has "saved" my favorite laptop from the trash by breathing new life into it, and I can watch TWO full movies on the plane with Linux, but only ONE with Windows. (We gotta have our priorities straight!) 
That being said, I don't believe Linux will make it to the "big time, mainstream, knocking Windows off the desktop block" status because of one reason: Open Source idealogy. The thing that makes it great is at the same time its achilles downfall; and that is diversity. Just take a look at the DistroWatch web page for even a week and you'll see what I'm talking about: "Chen Ping-Hsun released xPUD 0.9.1, a new development build of...Linux", "Flavio Pereira de Oliveira has announced the release of GoblinX 3.0 "G:Standard", a Slackware-based live CD...", "Mitsuhoro Kojima has announced the release of Plamo Linux 4.7, a Slackware-inspired...Linux". This is just from right now. Take another look at the DistroWatch web page and one can see that they track the "Top 100" distributions...the TOP 100!!! How much programming effort is going into building poorly supported, one-off Linux packages that otherwise could be directed towards fewer, more solidified, and more competetive distributions? I believe that until the Linux community can, or will, come together and focus that it will always be as it has been for years, and how it is right now...just about 'there' but not quite yet.
That being said, I don't believe Linux will make it to the "big time, mainstream, knocking Windows off the desktop block" status because of one reason: Open Source idealogy. The thing that makes it great is at the same time its achilles downfall; and that is diversity. Just take a look at the DistroWatch web page for even a week and you'll see what I'm talking about: "Chen Ping-Hsun released xPUD 0.9.1, a new development build of...Linux", "Flavio Pereira de Oliveira has announced the release of GoblinX 3.0 "G:Standard", a Slackware-based live CD...", "Mitsuhoro Kojima has announced the release of Plamo Linux 4.7, a Slackware-inspired...Linux". This is just from right now. Take another look at the DistroWatch web page and one can see that they track the "Top 100" distributions...the TOP 100!!! How much programming effort is going into building poorly supported, one-off Linux packages that otherwise could be directed towards fewer, more solidified, and more competetive distributions? I believe that until the Linux community can, or will, come together and focus that it will always be as it has been for years, and how it is right now...just about 'there' but not quite yet. 
The poll results show 2/3 of you believe it'll be a "popular" desktop product.
Dream on! Way too much work to get programs inter-operating, a dearth of commercial business software, let alone the need to have a Ph.D. in learning 30 switches for every command-line command. Hell, case-sensitivity alone throws 95% of users into a tizzy!
Flexible? Yes. Free, open, powerful? Yep. But easy? Not so much.
Dream on! Way too much work to get programs inter-operating, a dearth of commercial business software, let alone the need to have a Ph.D. in learning 30 switches for every command-line command. Hell, case-sensitivity alone throws 95% of users into a tizzy!
Flexible? Yes. Free, open, powerful? Yep. But easy? Not so much.
No PHD or command line needed. Maybe you where trying Gentoo or Slackware a few years back? Might be worth looking at Ubuntu, Mandriva or PCLinuxOS current releases.
If you have problems, you can always come back and ask.
If you have problems, you can always come back and ask.
I've seen this same discussion for over 10 years now. Nothing has changed, things have only gotten worse for Linux. Usage has only increased for home/hobbiest/developer users. And I've seen a few Linux environments replaced by MS stuff, but never the other way around. And in the last 5 years even the server market is slipping to the MS side...see you in 10 years : )
I truly believe Linux has it's place in the IT world, but as long as it remains Open Source it will be Closed Doors to the IT market.
I truly believe Linux has it's place in the IT world, but as long as it remains Open Source it will be Closed Doors to the IT market.
Some people seem to think that getting free software is a good thing. It can be, but in general, the issue is more about "free speech" than "free beer".
Free software? Do you work for free? The local crossing guard at the school is a volunteer, but the police officer is a paid professional. There is a reason for that.
I believe one of the biggest driving forces behind the original open source movement was a specific anti-Microsoft sentiment. Ultimately, that is not a good premise for success.
Having standards is certainly a good thing. But there is always a compromise involved. Standards slow down innovation. They help in one sense, but hinder in another. There is no perfect solution.
Software is a tool to get a job done. We need pragmatism, not religious fervor, in evaluating and using software environments.
The point of my comment is to say, Windows 7 seems like at least as good a solution as any other (if not better) to the question of "how do I get my computer to do what I want it to do and how much will it cost?".
Free software? Do you work for free? The local crossing guard at the school is a volunteer, but the police officer is a paid professional. There is a reason for that.
I believe one of the biggest driving forces behind the original open source movement was a specific anti-Microsoft sentiment. Ultimately, that is not a good premise for success.
Having standards is certainly a good thing. But there is always a compromise involved. Standards slow down innovation. They help in one sense, but hinder in another. There is no perfect solution.
Software is a tool to get a job done. We need pragmatism, not religious fervor, in evaluating and using software environments.
The point of my comment is to say, Windows 7 seems like at least as good a solution as any other (if not better) to the question of "how do I get my computer to do what I want it to do and how much will it cost?".
Well about 7 at least. One of the big complaints here is the fact that the Biggest Telco in AU doesn't have any Drivers for it available for their Wireless Broadband Routers so people who have UpGraded to 7 now have no Internet Connection and will not have one for months. This is coming from M$ Partners so I'm not sure just how Joe Average is getting on.
Of course not getting any E-Mail seems to be a bit of a sticking point too but I don't really see why.
The Big problem with your Ideas above is that 7 has been brought about by what is being introduced in the Nix Community to try to address the constant behind the 8 Ball approach that M$ has.
M$ is not driving Development or new ideas this is left to the Linux Community to do and when they have perfected whatever M$ nabs the idea and starts all over again attempting to reinvent the wheel.
But Linux isn't free it's a Paid For software for most people except the Home User and even then if they want support from the Distributer of what they use they need to pay for it. So I'm not sure where you get the idea that Linux is Free.
Also the different Nix Distributions seem to have worked out how to have Standards without breaking everything that they touch or constantly needing to change things Unlike M$ who seem incapable of maintaining the same Standard for longer than a couple of years.
what I do however completely agree with is
Software is a tool to get a job done. We need pragmatism, not religious fervor, in evaluating and using software environments.
Yep Software is just that a Tool or a means to an end and should be treated as such.
The Bit about Religious Fervor works both ways but it is something that I completely agree with. There should be no basis to use one over the other the real Pros and Cons should be looked at and a decision made from there. Unfortunately for M$ that will nail them as when they tried to introduce something that had a chance of maintaining a reasonable Level of Security Vista they got Hauled over the Coals for it and rubbished to death. Of course things like what they did with UAC to peeve People Off didn't help much but 7 just is not in the same league as most of the Nix Distro's when it comes to Security.
But then again that's nothing new Windows has never had any Security By Design it's always been a afterthought that was added when needed and sort of worked.
M$ approach to Software Design also doesn't help all that much as not many people still Believe that Near Enough is Good Enough these Days and are expecting something better. I doubt that M$ can provide this as they have not been able to in the past.
Col
Of course not getting any E-Mail seems to be a bit of a sticking point too but I don't really see why.
The Big problem with your Ideas above is that 7 has been brought about by what is being introduced in the Nix Community to try to address the constant behind the 8 Ball approach that M$ has.
M$ is not driving Development or new ideas this is left to the Linux Community to do and when they have perfected whatever M$ nabs the idea and starts all over again attempting to reinvent the wheel.
But Linux isn't free it's a Paid For software for most people except the Home User and even then if they want support from the Distributer of what they use they need to pay for it. So I'm not sure where you get the idea that Linux is Free.
Also the different Nix Distributions seem to have worked out how to have Standards without breaking everything that they touch or constantly needing to change things Unlike M$ who seem incapable of maintaining the same Standard for longer than a couple of years.
what I do however completely agree with is
Software is a tool to get a job done. We need pragmatism, not religious fervor, in evaluating and using software environments.
Yep Software is just that a Tool or a means to an end and should be treated as such.
The Bit about Religious Fervor works both ways but it is something that I completely agree with. There should be no basis to use one over the other the real Pros and Cons should be looked at and a decision made from there. Unfortunately for M$ that will nail them as when they tried to introduce something that had a chance of maintaining a reasonable Level of Security Vista they got Hauled over the Coals for it and rubbished to death. Of course things like what they did with UAC to peeve People Off didn't help much but 7 just is not in the same league as most of the Nix Distro's when it comes to Security.
But then again that's nothing new Windows has never had any Security By Design it's always been a afterthought that was added when needed and sort of worked.
M$ approach to Software Design also doesn't help all that much as not many people still Believe that Near Enough is Good Enough these Days and are expecting something better. I doubt that M$ can provide this as they have not been able to in the past.
Col
At the Helpdesk level, introducing a Linux environment is sure to be dominated by frustration, from the end-user all the way up the chain.
For those Helpdesk employees that have no experience with Linux, this would introduce an entirely new learning curve.
With or without Linux experience at the support desk, the introduction of Linux for the general end-user is bound to at least triple the call volume, with basic training questions.
With my growing experience with Linux, it is often a painful process to troubleshoot more advanced Linux issues whose Windows counterparts often have quick and easy solutions.
In short, at the end-user and helpdesk levels, the widespread introduction of Linux workstations seems likely to increase frustration, as well as organizational support costs well beyond their current levels in a Windows environment.
For those Helpdesk employees that have no experience with Linux, this would introduce an entirely new learning curve.
With or without Linux experience at the support desk, the introduction of Linux for the general end-user is bound to at least triple the call volume, with basic training questions.
With my growing experience with Linux, it is often a painful process to troubleshoot more advanced Linux issues whose Windows counterparts often have quick and easy solutions.
In short, at the end-user and helpdesk levels, the widespread introduction of Linux workstations seems likely to increase frustration, as well as organizational support costs well beyond their current levels in a Windows environment.
At the Helpdesk level, introducing a Linux environment is sure to be dominated by frustration, from the end-user all the way up the chain.
That's just what I was thinking. Thanks.......
That's just what I was thinking. Thanks.......
If it where to happen, I don't think it would be an overnight change. You wouldn't arrive in the office Monday and suddenly the desktop market is 30% Apple, 30% various Linux distributions and 30% Windows.
Helpdesk knowledge would increase as the popularity increased. By the time a company did do a cold cutover, most of the helpdesk staff would probably have looked at it at home at least.
It also wouldn't suddenly grow in popularity without the end users becoming more familiar with it or at least it's availability.
Starter friendly distributions continuing to polish up user interaction with the system. if the reason for lack of polish is lack of consumer interest then growing consumer interest is going to drive distribution polish to the level of osX.
Trouble shooting would also improve as part of the continued polish in response to growing popularity. I have oddities on both platforms that don't seem to give any clear reason for being though too.
One definite benefit to measurable market share would be more support from hardware manufacturers, codec owners and similar areas where "it's not popular enough" is a rallying point. The user grief caused by this type of business politics now would decrease during the market growth.
As an overnight change it would definitely cause frustration on support and user sides. With measurable market share becoming more of a growth process I think the other issues around it would also be smoothed over as it went along.
It's also a chickenegg thing. Average users won't grow it's measurable market through purchases without universal hardware, games and other specialty software. Hardware and specialty software won't work with or develop for it until it become more measurably popular. Hardware may actually be motivated against it's growth as it doesn't force new hardware purchases as frequently as other platforms.
Apple remains outside the topic since they stick within there own hardware/software package as a desktop retailer more than an OEM developer.
Hopefully non of that seems argumentative.
Helpdesk knowledge would increase as the popularity increased. By the time a company did do a cold cutover, most of the helpdesk staff would probably have looked at it at home at least.
It also wouldn't suddenly grow in popularity without the end users becoming more familiar with it or at least it's availability.
Starter friendly distributions continuing to polish up user interaction with the system. if the reason for lack of polish is lack of consumer interest then growing consumer interest is going to drive distribution polish to the level of osX.
Trouble shooting would also improve as part of the continued polish in response to growing popularity. I have oddities on both platforms that don't seem to give any clear reason for being though too.
One definite benefit to measurable market share would be more support from hardware manufacturers, codec owners and similar areas where "it's not popular enough" is a rallying point. The user grief caused by this type of business politics now would decrease during the market growth.
As an overnight change it would definitely cause frustration on support and user sides. With measurable market share becoming more of a growth process I think the other issues around it would also be smoothed over as it went along.
It's also a chickenegg thing. Average users won't grow it's measurable market through purchases without universal hardware, games and other specialty software. Hardware and specialty software won't work with or develop for it until it become more measurably popular. Hardware may actually be motivated against it's growth as it doesn't force new hardware purchases as frequently as other platforms.
Apple remains outside the topic since they stick within there own hardware/software package as a desktop retailer more than an OEM developer.
Hopefully non of that seems argumentative.
Having recently set up an older version of Ubuntu, I was not impressed with the GUI. As a server, with just a command prompt, it is good for specific tasks, beyond that I would hate to have to support Linux on the front line.
The GUI in Ubuntu's Jaunty Release is wonderful, at least in my opinion, and just about all of my formal and informal experience with computers is with Windows Systems.
'Ever' is an awfully long time. I wish the poll had specified a shorter time frame; maybe "Within five years", "Within ten years", and "More than ten years". Then I would have said "Within ten years".
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